{"id":118719,"date":"2022-11-28T14:44:55","date_gmt":"2022-11-28T22:44:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=118719"},"modified":"2022-11-29T09:26:15","modified_gmt":"2022-11-29T17:26:15","slug":"q585-transcript","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=118719","title":{"rendered":"Q585 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

(Editor’s note:<\/strong> This tape was reviewed by Nicole Bissett. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)<\/em><\/p>\n

To read the Tape Summary,\u00a0click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>,\u00a0Pt. 2<\/a>).
\nTo return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Call #1:<\/strong><\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> Jones? Jones? I just don\u2019t\u2013 Yeah, I just don\u2019t know. But do you know where he is?<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> No, uh, he was going to be going cross country, I think, I\u2019m not sure. He was on a missionary thing or something, I\u2019m wasn\u2019t really sure of the whole thing, I\u2019m just a secretary.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> Uh-huh. Well, he\u2013 he\u2013 just as far as I know, he just walked out and left everything here. And uh, I have nothing to make out an income tax return with him for.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> I see. So you just had like, last month\u2019s bills or something.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> I\u2013 I have this February, is all I have.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> (cuts in) Oh.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> I\u2013 I don\u2019t have much. Uh, when I called to try to get him, the girl didn\u2019t know anything about the things there.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> Uh-huh.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> So, I just\u2013 I\u2019m at a loss to do anything.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> I\u2019ll be darned. Well, I think, uh\u2013 We\u2019re just kind of, you know, piecing it together to get the necessary business taken care of him\u2013 for him, because we\u2019ve been his attorneys off and on through the years so, I think that we can probably take care of it through some\u2013 he keeps in contact with us occasionally.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> Uh, if there\u2019s anything we can do to help you, though, I\u2013 you know \u2013<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> I\u2013 I mean, I just can\u2019t do anything without the facts and figures, and I don\u2019t have \u2018em.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> Mm-hmm [Yes]. Okay.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> All right.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> Thank you very much.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> You\u2019re welcome.<\/p>\n

(Call Disconnects)<\/p>\n

Dial tone<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Call 2:<\/strong><\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> Okay?<\/p>\n

Albert Kahn:<\/strong> First of all, of course, my name is Albert, which is not<\/em> a secret.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> (laughs) Okay.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And the only guy who ever made me a doctor, I accepted it, although I\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2013 I declared in public, it never happened.<\/p>\n

Marceline<\/strong>: (laughs)<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> But I have<\/em> to accept it because he said, never mind, he was making me one then. But that was Jim. Now I never was a doctor.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh really. Well you \u2013<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> No and\u2013 and I never got a doctor\u2019s degree when I was his (unintelligible word) and\u2013 and\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, you should<\/em> have been.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Well, I was damn lucky to graduate<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, you\u2013 you certainly are a doctor, as far as I\u2019m concerned.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Well, listen, I\u2013 I couldn\u2019t even stop myself from getting a\u2013 I had some sort of a stroke last Friday night, and uh, uh, I\u2013 I was not supposed to come to that meeting, you\u2013 you know, uh.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I know, I just\u2013<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And\u2013 And uh, maybe\u2013 maybe it wasn\u2019t, I was sorta\u2013 you know, it wasn\u2019t so serious.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I know, but you must<\/em> take care of yourself.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Only very slight, they call it TIA.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Which is, you know, Temporary [Transient] ischemic Attack.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> But I want you to know so you can have the exact truth about me, I\u2019m having a card printed, and I\u2019m putting Albert E. Kahn, TIA on it.<\/p>\n

Marceline<\/strong>: (laughs)<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And everyone will think that I am a doctor or somethin\u2019<\/em>, like a degree, you see?<\/p>\n

Marceline<\/strong>: (laughs) Well\u2013<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> It\u2019s the only degree I\u2019ve gotten, though\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, I certainly think you should\u2013 Ya know, an honorary degree should be bestowed upon you for all you\u2019ve done for justice.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Well, I want\u2013 I wanted to, I wanted to have a chat with you, you know, and I\u2013 And let me begin by saying, that I hope you will not think me presumptuous for calling you.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Not a bit.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Okay. Because, actually, if I had been in or\u2013 But it\u2019s very<\/em> difficult, with all the pressures on you<\/em> there, uh, in the Temple and with a meeting going on or anything, and all the things that have to be done, it\u2019s very<\/em> difficult for us to do what I wanted to do, not then, but to come and especially to do\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> \u2013uh, which was really to sit down with you for half a day, or\u2013 or a couple of hours, whatever you could spare, and just sit and talk with you before I went abroad, and I feel very\u2013 really, really very upset about the fact that this hasn\u2019t been done by me. Uh, I uh\u2013 I\u2019m not speaking now just about Jim, I\u2019m speaking also about you. Uh\u2013 We\u2019ve only met actually in our lives a half a dozen or a dozen times, and uh, certain things in life have come to mean a great deal to me.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And you and he are among them. And it was my duty to\u2013 to\u2013 to be in there, and to have a\u2013 a chance to sit and chat with you, just, you know, alone, or in a relaxed fashion, doing what\u2013 (laughs) having a cup of tea or whatever you wanted to have, you know what?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, I\u2013 I know well the feeling, uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> You know what I mean?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes, I know, and I\u2013 I keep thinking, you know, surely that will be heaven. (Laughs) When we are able to all<\/em>of us sit down, and have so much in common in the way of our beliefs in what we think\u2019s important to live for and to die for.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Well, I would have been in there. If it hadn\u2019t been for the fact that during the last couple of weeks, I really have been going kind of crazy with that delegation coming. I was not meant to do anything about it. Uh\u00ad\u2013 It wasn\u2019t meant to be my responsibility to work on it. Uh, Erma did a marvelous job, but all sorts of things fell into my lap.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And of course, if it hadn\u2019t been for Dick and for your whole group, that wha\u2013 the thing that was, the whole thing which turned out to be so successful, the whole thing would\u2019ve turned to be not successful at all<\/em>. And, at the same<\/em> time, I was trying to\u2013 I\u2019ve been trying to finish up on two books, and it\u2019s been a hectic period here, so I simply failed, and I don\u2019t excuse myself.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Please, please, know well, that I understand.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> All right, then, I\u2013 I won\u2019t go on apologizing.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> No, I understand it perfectly, because uh, I, and I know Jim has had the same feeling, that we\u2019re so busy trying to bring justice in a system that is constantly, uh\u2013 Well, we\u2019re always on the defensive for justice.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Right?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> You know what I\u2019m saying.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And there\u2019s not time to do these things that are really very important and would be the thing that would give us strength to go on, and that\u2019s to<\/em> sit down with people like you and talk and share what we have. But I know<\/em> there\u2019s just not the time.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Well\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I understand it perfectly.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m going to find and follow you around until you<\/em> stop somewhere sometime for a moment, and (laughs) we\u2019ll make the time when I come back\u2013 when I come back.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, I, but\u2013<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> But before I go, and even though, with someone that I feel about as I feel about you, uh, even though I dislike talking on the phone, uh\u2013 but I much, you know\u2013 it\u2019s all the difference in sitting facing, you know, face-to-face with someone.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Nevertheless, I wanted to have a little chat with you if you can spare five or ten minutes right now.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Can you?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Certainly.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Okay. First of all, I wanted to say, I have, at no point, had any discussion at all with you, or\u2013 or with uh, with Michael, or with\u2013with uh, with anyone<\/em>. Uh, uh, uh, I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m\u2013 my mind is\u2013 is still like it was kicked by a horse, it\u2019s very funny the effect of that thing.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, I know, you\u2013<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Fogs out\u2013 it fogs out\u2013 it fogs out names. But with, you know, any of your close colleagues, uh, it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s just\u2013 I just haven\u2019t sat down and talked, and<\/em>, secondly, I have no questions, really, to ask of Miss Stahl if we were sitting and talking\u2013 this is, uh, I think it might be entirely different.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Mm-hmm [Yes].<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Uh, all I know, uh, is that Jim\u2013 this is\u00ad\u2013 and this part of this is entirely my belief, overworks in some ways, terribly.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Which he always has been doing.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Very much overworked.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Had\u2013 Has happened to him, I don\u2019t know, I have no<\/em> idea about this, it\u2019s pure speculation, but once, uh, about ten years ago in Russia and once right after the end of the McCarthy period, I had what was\u2013 I collapsed from what was called exhaustion.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Uh, I absolutely collapsed.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> I was incapable of doing a damn thing. I actually, uh, really\u2013 I used to write twelve, thirteen hours a day when I was younger. I actually, for a period, could not write one paragraph, and I couldn\u2019t even read<\/em> a paragraph. And I went through a period \u2013 I\u2019m not making any comparisons \u2013 I\u2019m just saying\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> \u2013I know what can happen to you when it\u2013 from exhaustion.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> They put me in a, a rest home and uh, in the Soviet Union, and I went through a period when I came back, and it was\u2013 that was after the McCarthy thing, and I finally got my passport, I went through a period when it was like, during the whole fight, somehow or other, everything, I\u2013I\u2013 when I managed to, you know\u2013 I\u2013 The fight was something I was in, and part of and I\u2013 I even relished<\/em> part of it. Uh, I wanted<\/em> to fight.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> There\u2019s nothin\u2019 I wanted more. When it was over at a certain point, uh, I\u2013 it was like shell shock. Now, with Paul Robeson, he was terribly hard hit. We were both hit at the same time, and we both\u2013 Dr. [W. E. B.] DuBois, he was the hardest son of a gun you ever saw, he\u2013 he\u2013 he just laughed, nothin\u2019 seemed to faze him.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> I think he was too old and too wise.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> But, uh, I got in a situation, uh\u00ad\u2013 Three times this has happened to me. Once, I had paralysis, uh, once I had this physical thing where I just sat, and once I had what I, in retrospect, call, not economically, but in my own personal life, as my great depression.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> I\u2013 I didn\u2019t have any money to lose. I didn\u2019t have a depression like that and\u2013 like they had in the 1930s, but I sure as hell was no good. For a while I just couldn\u2019t do<\/em> anything.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And the only<\/em> thing with me<\/em>\u2013 Now I\u2013 and I\u2019m just talking only about myself.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Uh-huh.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> The only thing with me that did anything good at all was rest. Really<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> I mean, nobody\u2019s advice, except the love of my wife [Harriet], uh, I\u2013 As a matter of fact, I found it very difficult to be with people. Now, all I\u2019m saying is, that there\u2019s a certain amount that the body and the mind can take from the sort of work \u2013 however it hits them \u2013 from the sort of work that a guy like Jim has been doing.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I totally agree with that, and I\u2013 I don\u2019t know whether you know, he did collapse, you know, at the Housing Commission meeting.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> No, I just heard, I\u2013 I\u2013 I didn\u2019t know what they meant<\/em>. I heard that he was exhausted, and had to stop working, but they didn\u2019t tell me he collapsed.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, he\u2013 he did, and uh, he\u2019s not to the point, you know, that\u2013 that you describe. Uh, I mean, he seemed to\u2013 he was still functioning. But, uh.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Right? Well, I was moving.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> I mean I was moving around and talking<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> But actually, we got\u2013 we just sort of\u2013 me and others around here, sort of took it in our own hands and uh, put a lot<\/em> of pressure on Jim to say, look, you\u2013 you\u2019re too vital to die.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> That\u2019s the point.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And uh, we know<\/em>\u2013 I mean I know him well enough to know that at this point, at least, he just can\u2019t be idle.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Right?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And so we suggested that he go over to Guyana and to the agricultural mission and uh, maybe do some speaking Caribbean, uh, you know, and just change<\/em> his environment.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Right?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> So uh, we urged him to get away and really, you know, packed his bags and uh, so he wouldn\u2019t have to worry about our sons, and so I<\/em> wouldn\u2019t have to worry about \u2018em, because they\u2019ve been\u2013 you know, their lives have been under threat and duress also.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> We just sent them along.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Damn good.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And uh, I hope<\/em> he\u2019ll stay away for two or three months. I don\u2019t know, whether we\u2019re going to get that many.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Well, I\u2013 I\u2013 I tell you, you know, Jim has, uh, talked to me briefly, or about me once in a while, in such a way that I think he knows that\u2013 I have a feeling he knows, that even though I do not, I am not a good enough man to deserve the love of my wife\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Aww.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> I\u2013 I\u2013 I have\u2013 I am dedicated in my life to certain causes, and for forty years since I began to get educated after I got out of college, uh, that\u2013 there\u2019s been nothing else in my life. Now, I am gonna write Jim, uh, there is nothing<\/em> in my opinion, that is of more value to the world in which he<\/em> is living here, than that he<\/em> take proper care of himself. It\u2013 It\u2019s very hard for a man\u2013 I mean, I\u2013 I\u2013 And\u2013 I know he will not think me presumptuous.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> No, I don\u2019t think he will, and I would appreciate it if you would. Uh, I know he has great respect for you, and I know that he uh, would take it from your past experiences. You know.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m going to tell him everything, any\u2013 everything and anything, and I\u2019m gonna say, I don\u2019t know what<\/em> the situation is with him, and I\u2019m gonna say if\u2013 if, some time (unintelligible word) I can come down and spend a couple of days with him or anything, one\u2013 that\u2019s one thing. Another thing I\u2019m gonna tell him is that when I get to the uh\u2013 to the Congress, I sure as hell am going to, not only report to the Congress, but through the Congress, there\u2019re gonna be, I don\u2019t know how many tens of millions of people around the world who are going to hear about his work\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Good.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> \u2013which they should know about\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> That\u2019s great.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And I\u2019ll\u2013 and a hundred\u2013 There\u2019ll be there from a hundred countries.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> That\u2019s beautiful.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And I want to do that, and uh\u2013 and one thing I forgot to say yesterday was when I\u2013 uh, I was very disturbed at that one point, when I was talking, I have to learn not to get disturbed, but I was very disturbed at one point, and I didn\u2019t finish at four. And when I was talking about the cesspool that surrounds some of us, and\u2013 and the\u2013 and the terrible\u2013 I\u2013 I mean the appalling, sickening uh, attacks on\u2013 on people like yourselves, (stumbles over words) I mean they\u2013 they disturb me very much. I wanted to say too, that I do<\/em> regard my pen as a weapon. And it does reach, it is translated in twenty-five or thirty languages.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes, yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And I\u2013 my\u2013 I want him to know, that my pen is his sword. Uh\u2013 I want to put it at his disposal, with whatever way I can in that\u2013 in that other situation.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Uh, yeah.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> I mean, in\u2013 in that slanderous, that (unintelligible word), I don\u2019t, I\u2019m tired of going into (unintelligible word)\u2013 I want to show what happens to a man, a woman, a family, a people whom you fa\u2013 a big family that you\u2019ve made, what happens to that family in this society, when all it tries to do, the only thing it tries to do, is to make life happier for other human beings.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And I\u2019ll\u2013 and I\u2019m just gonna\u2013 I\u2019m just gonna talk and write about that on television and radio and so-on and so-forth, in the socialist world and in the rest of the world, I\u2019m gonna do it here too when I get the chance\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Good.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> \u2013and I\u2013 and I want him to know that, that\u2019s all. He can\u2013 and I want him to know he can count on that.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I\u2019ll\u2013 I\u2019ll certainly let him know that, and I know that\u2019ll make him feel very, very strong, and very, very supported because uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s the least\u2013 it\u2019s the least I can do for a man like that, you know. Uh, I\u2013 I\u2013 And by the way, it is rather silly because, uh, to speak all the time of a man like that, because\u2013 uh, I\u2019ve lived long enough to know that though, when I travel in different parts of the world, I get such marvelous love and hospitality from people from whom\u2013 to whom I can give very little in terms of hospitality, when a few\u2013 the fewer than that come\u2013 come to this land, they are a whole people, you know, take care of me and\u2013 and\u2013 and show me this love. And\u2013 And when\u2013 And this\u2013 and this to me is a great honor. And when I get that honor, I never forget, and I don\u2019t forget here or there, that it is<\/em> not really me, just me, by any means. And that if it were not for my wife, I\u2013 I don\u2019t know where I\u2019d be. I uh, I don\u2019t\u2013 I sp\u2013 I said last night that I thought the most important thing in life was the ability to love, and to be<\/em> loved, but I will never know, and I don\u2019t say this uh, with, you know, I\u2019m not trying to be man\u2013 this is not\u2013 I\u2019m trying to say what I\u2013 just what I think\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> I do not know, and I never will know, to love in the way she loves, that\u2019s all. And it\u2019s true, I know how to work. It\u2019s true, I know how to get certain things done.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And it is true, I love man and woman throughout the world, more than anything in the universe that I know.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> That\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s the core of my love.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> But you also have to know how to love your own family, and people close to you, and\u2013 and everyone. And, Riett [Harriet] has something that I\u2013 I just know I don\u2019t have<\/em>, that\u2019s all.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Uh, and it\u2019s very often, you know, I don\u2019t know whether you\u2019ll agree with me, but I have long held to the view, ever since I read Shakespeare, or began reading Shakespeare, I never stopped, but I, all\u2013 but I\u2013 I came to know, quite as a young man, and even before I got educated in terms of life uh, and politics and economics or anything like that, I came to know that women, at this<\/em> point at least in\u2013 in\u2013 in history and in society up until now, have<\/em> been superior to men. Uh, I know it because they know how to love more. I know it because they are more perceptive and more sensitive. I\u2019m speaking in general\u2013 genera\u2013 generally, now. I know it because they can bear children. And that in order to bear children, even in the animal, in the lower portions of the animal kingdom, the female has<\/em> to be tenderer, and has<\/em> to know more how to take care of other creatures.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, you know, I think they\u2013 I think that\u2019s true. I don\u2019t know whether it\u2019s\u2013<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> It\u2019s not always, but it\u2019s\u2013 but it\u2019s ninety percent of the time.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> No, but I think what happens is, that by the very fact that they do bear the children, they\u2019re put in a position of having to\u2013 to care on a one-to-one relationship, you know what I\u2019m saying. But this can also \u2013<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> In the capitalist world.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> No. What?<\/p>\n

Kahn and Marceline talk over each other, unintelligible<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Oh, what you mean is biologically\u2013 biologically.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, and\u2013 and they\u2019re put in a position where they must be responsible for the children and\u2013<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Well, children can\u2019t live<\/em> otherwise.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> That\u2013 that\u2019s exactly right.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> If you take in the animal kingdom, the\u2013 the\u2013 the\u2013 the male uh, does the hunting.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, that\u2019s true. But, you know, I think it\u2019s\u2013 I think there has to be the two kinds of love, and I\u2013 and I\u2013 I do know that for you\u2013 people like you, and Jim, uh, to be able to reach out to the world, sometimes you have to become detached from the pain of loving personally. You know what I\u2019m saying.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s true. I think that\u2019s probably true.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> In order to accomplish what you must accomplish.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Well, you do have to sacrifice certain things, but I know, I can only speak from my life, Marcy, and\u2013 and I have no right to speak for others.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> But I\u2019ve seen many great geniuses, uh, and I\u2019ve known a number, quite a few who were really great geniuses, I mean, whether it be a Pablo (stumbles over words) Picasso or a (unintelligible name, sounds like \u201cRocco Kend\u201d) or a Paul Robeson.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And I have seen that they became great geniuses and often\u2013 and\u2013 and they gave the world great beauty and\u2013 and often, whether it was a musician, or whatever it was, they were so obsessed with the\u2013 with the\u2013 with the creation of beauty, or with what they, with their own work, that sometimes\u2013 and I know in my life, and I\u2019m not a genius, but I know in my life, that I was so obsessed with my work, writing, and working for peace, or working against fascism when I was younger all the time\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And I knew<\/em>, you see, I had the excuse of knowing how right, what I was doing was\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> \u2013that I neglected my own sons and my wife more than I should have.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> Excuse me, is it possible I can interrupt this call, uh\u2013 call, Mrs. Jones, there\u2019s an emergency.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Who is this for?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> It\u2019s for me I guess, Dr. Kahn.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Albert.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Albert.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> For Mrs. Jones, I\u2013 I\u2013<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Okay, because I have gotten several emergency\u2013<\/p>\n

(Call cuts off)<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Call #3.<\/strong><\/p>\n

(in progress).<\/p>\n

Mike Prokes:<\/strong> We\u2019d be willing to have, uh, Hector possibly be released on probation, come into our program. We do a lot of this type of work, uh, here.<\/p>\n

Joanne Brown:<\/strong> Have you had anybody in a murder case?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Uh, yeah.<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> You have!<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> How many?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Oh, well, I don\u2019t know the exact number, I\u2019m not sure it\u2019s that<\/em> many but uh, what we would\u2013 the only thing we would do\u2013 would be able to do with Hector is to uh\u2013 and I don\u2019t even know if this is possible, but uh, we would definitely want to send him to the uh\u2013 our agricultural mission in South America, where we have a farm on several thousand acres and it\u2019s in the middle of a remote region of the\u2013 a jungle. And uh, the chances for rehabilitation, you know, are\u2013 are the best there. In fact, we\u2019ve sent many problem cases and\u2013 For example\u2013<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> What part of Latin America?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Uh, Guyana.<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> Hm. French?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 No, it was<\/em> British, it\u2019s now independent.<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> Hmm.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> And, uh, our success there has been tremendous. In fact, uh, all the kids that we\u2019ve sent have uh\u2013 Well, they don\u2019t want to come back, there\u2019s been no recidivism yet.<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> Hmmm. Okay, uh\u2013 In terms of whatever program you think you can offer Hector, uh, it\u2019s gonna\u2013 it\u2019s gonna involve a PR job, not just in terms of Hector personally, but in terms of your program in general, I\u2019m sure you\u2019re aware of that.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> It\u2013 Say that again please?<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> It\u2019s going to involve a PR job to convince the\u2013 to convince the court that it\u2019s a\u2013 sort of a legitimate as well as\u2013 as a responsible and effective operation.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah, right.<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> Like I have no questions myself, personally. But I can only make these representations from what I\u2019ve heard and what I\u2019ve read as opposed to any personal experience so, as I\u2019ve suggested to Mrs. Corosko [phonetic], I would suggest that\u2013 that you write out uh, supported by some sort of, you know, whatever brochures, pamphlets, information, statistics you have, some sort of program, which is your proposal for what to do with Hector. And I can submit that to the court. Uh, I can\u2019t\u2013 uh, I can\u2019t at this time give you any sort of in\u2013 indication of how I think it\u2019s gonna go. I would imagine<\/em> that since he\u2019s a Youth Authority parolee, the Youth Authority would also have to make the agreement to let him go. Okay. So, the first hurdle would be the court and the second hurdle would be the Youth Authority, uh, which doesn\u2019t mean that they would require any additional information but that, but that\u2013 putting the\u2013 sort of the package together would be something that would be used to both.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> \u2018Kay? And I just suggest you write out sort of what you think uh, would be appropriate for him, what you think you can offer, uh, sort of uh, the successes that you\u2019ve had with the project in Guyana before, and uh, send that to me and I will see what I can do with the judge.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Okay, so send everything to you and you will take it from there.<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> Yeah, uh-huh. And it may\u2013 it may involve a court appearance at some point, but I will arrange it with you if that\u2019s\u2013 if that\u2019s in fact the case.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Okay, what sort of time element are we working with?<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> Uh, a couple weeks.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Okay, so you meet within a couple weeks.<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> Mm-hmm [Yes].<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> By the twenty-ninth.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> What uh\u2013 I\u2019ll send it to you, Joanne Brown.<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> And uh, address?<\/p>\n

Brown:<\/strong> That would be the County Public Defender\u2019s Office. Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> (under breath) \u2013County\u2013<\/p>\n

(Call cuts off).<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Call #4<\/strong><\/p>\n

Donetter Lane:<\/strong> Uh, with uh, uh, with some\u2013 uh, let\u2019s see, with\u2013 with some kind of payback.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Uh-huh.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Uh, and the payback was the\u2013 that they send full amount.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Uh-huh.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Okay. Now, uh, of course I hit the ceiling in the meeting. And uh, and I told him, I said that\u2019s a lie. The [Peoples] Forum<\/em> was out before he got named to the commission.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Mm-hmm [Yes].<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> That\u2019s strictly a church uh, venture.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> It\u2019s not a political venture.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Uh-uh.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> But that\u2019s the\u2013 the kind of uh, things that I\u2019m, you know, getting, you know, and\u2013<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Well, how did they say it supports [George] Moscone, the Forum<\/em>?<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Well, they, they\u2019re sayin\u2019 that, you know, Moscone uh, appointed certain uh, people, radicals and community folk, and you know, Jim Jones was one of them. So I said, what do you mean radical? And uh\u2013 And so they didn\u2019t have uh, no answer, ya know, and\u2013 and I told them I was uh, very much aware of the fact that everybody who uh, uh, was trying to do anything as far as uh, human needs, uh, was labeled as a communist, or they was labeled as radicals.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Okay, okay. Uh\u2013 and I joined them to become a radical uh, on behalf of all mankind.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Uh-huh.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Okay. Uh, but I thought I dropped that in the thing because you\u2013 there\u2019s a pressure on things may be coming from uh, folks who are indoctrinated as such, you know, understand.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah, that doesn\u2019t mean they make sense though.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> No, no, it doesn\u2019t make sense, but I\u2019m sayin\u2019.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> The paper didn\u2019t even\u2013 I don\u2019t know whether it mentioned Moscone (unintelligible word) even.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Yeah, right, right, right, but I\u2019m just sayin\u2019, this has been happenin\u2019, they jumped on him too.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Geez.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And uh, and I told him, that, you know, I\u2013 I\u2013 I just told him, I don\u2019t understand where your\u2013 where your head is and where your heart is.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Was this a church meeting?<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> No, baby, it wasn\u2019t a church meeting, it was a political meeting.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Oh.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And uh\u2013 and I\u2013 I stood up to defend those persons I know, and I told Mom I\u2019m been to community and I\u2019m workin\u2019, and I know what goes down, ya know.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And uh, that all they represented was just plain ignorance.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> About\u2013 and\u2013 and a lack of involvement<\/em>, because if you involved, you know<\/em> about these kind of things, you see.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s crazy.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Yeah, yeah, yeah, but\u2013 but that\u2019s the kind of thing that we uh, we\u2019ve been gittin\u2019, you know. Uh, it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s really somethin\u2019, but I\u2019m gonna take care of them.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Is there anything else along those lines?<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Huh?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Is there anything else? They say anything else?<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> No, no, that was\u2013 that was the\u2013 the whole thing, you know.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Gist of it, huh?<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> That was the gist of it. But uh, the fact that Jim Jones came up, uh, you know, and uh\u2013 and I said, he\u2019s in a whole different ball game. Uh, not\u2013 it\u2019s not a political thing. It\u2019s all in another ball game.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And uh, I think the whole mystery of it is, is that uh\u2013 at least I know the mystery of it is that uh, when you try\u2013 like I told you, you don\u2019t\u2013 you don\u2019t\u2013 you expect this.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> If you understand the teachings of Christ, uh, you\u2013 you know, you\u2013 you\u2013 you\u2013 you can be, you anchored.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And what the wind that blows and everything else, that\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s gonna be very common to you, but you can stand<\/em> it. You see what I\u2019m sayin\u2019?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> But you gonna git<\/em> it.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And it uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019re getting\u2019 it. (Laughs) We\u2019re getting it.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Yup, yeah, I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m sure, I\u2019m sure.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> We are getting it.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And uh, uh\u2013 and it\u2019s most unfortunate, you know, but this is what happens and then I said, that I\u2013 I raised the question, I said, this is why good people refuse to come forward, you know, uh, uh, (unintelligible phrase) I just say hell, man, man, look, you know what you all doin\u2019, you sittin\u2019 up here, uh, not even knowing what the real issues are all about, and I have a community, what the community is sayin\u2019 when they want uh, supervisors from uh, areas, and I said I\u2019m not sure that\u2019s gonna be the answer to our problem, because I do know a couple things will happen.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Uh-huh.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Uh, and I don\u2019t want to see it happen again, but this is what happened with EOC and Model Citizen, all the rest of \u2018em, is that we\u2013 they bought off black folks.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And\u2013 and the voice and everything else uh, uh, uh, uh, was bought off, you see, and\u2013 and\u2013 and\u2013 and, and we gotta get\u2013 we got to raise up a whole new generation who can say no, we don\u2019t want the money.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> We don\u2019t want the money.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Because we don\u2019t want the money. You can have your money. You can\u2019t buy me. You see. And\u2013 and in that<\/em> way, you got a\u2013 you\u2013 you can be a power bloc, but if you don\u2019t have that kinda thing goin\u2019 for ya, then you ain\u2019t got\u2013 Now what is happenin\u2019 at Peoples Temple, now I don\u2019t know what goes all on at Peoples Temple, you see what I\u2019m sayin\u2019. I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m an outsider lookin\u2019 in.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> But I tell ya, like I told Jim, I said, Jim, I don\u2019t know what you\u2019re doin\u2019 to the people. But they\u2019re there. Uh, some people say\u2013 sayin\u2019 you\u2019re rippin\u2019 \u2019em off. Uh, I say some are sayin\u2019 that you\u2013 you uh, cater to the poor and you\u2013 you uh, uh, uh, takin\u2019 their property, and everything else, that\u2013 I heard a whole lot of lies. Now I said, even during the Martin Luther King thing, I had people call me up and say uh, uh, what up\u2013 what you\u2013 you\u2013 with this Jim Jones thing. I said, let me\u2013 I said, hold it, wait a minute. This here whole thing with Jim Jones, I said people are giving Jim Jones money is because we as a church failed to meet their needs, and they\u2019re giving to the institution that will meet their needs.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> That\u2019s where it\u2019s at.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> That\u2019s where it\u2019s at. And\u2013 and\u2013 and I say\u2013 and all I\u2019m sayin\u2019 to you then, is instead of fightin\u2019 it, you ought to join \u2018em. You see. Uh\u2013 And you\u2013 you either do the same thing, or\u2013 or shut up. And I said, when I<\/em> feel\u2013 feel like I know some blacks in the city that have\u2013 that have had property and a lot of wealth, too, and it\u2019s going back to the state. And I said, if somebody at the church was on its J-O-B, you could have gotten to those people, and said, you\u2013 we will build a monument for you, if you support a program, that will train your people to service. And I mean, I said, these are the kind of things I\u2019m sayin\u2019 that has to be\u2013 there are some human needs to be taken care of. It\u2019d be nice to know that I left a memorial in order for this to be continued.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> We have to keep the\u2013 the resources within the church, and\u2013 so that we can guarantee that every senior citizen does<\/em> have a comfortable bed\u2013<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Well, see, I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m worried about that, you see, because see, I\u2019m sayin\u2019, (unintelligible word) as things go on right now, this is what I was sayin\u2019 to this group yesterday, the property is gone up sixty- and eighty thousand dollars, a hundred thousand dollars, right here in my neighborhood. Okay? Now, uh, when they re-assess the value of property, that means we\u2019re going to pay more taxes. And I\u2019m thinking about twenty years from now, I\u2019ll be a senior citizen.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Uh, what can I live off of? I mean, will I be able\u2013 will I be able to support this system. Where will I be? Where\u2019s my security? I don\u2019t have<\/em> any.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> There\u2019s no guarantee<\/em> for me.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> You ought to deal with my guarantees, when I\u2013 when I have worked and built the system, I ought to be able\u2013 to be able to make some withdrawals from that system when I get to the point I can no longer make the, make the uh\u2013<\/p>\n

End of Side 1<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Side 2<\/strong><\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And they sittin\u2019 up there, lonely, no food, because the fixed income they have is not enough for them to survive. I know what I\u2019m talkin\u2019 about.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> I know what you\u2019re talkin\u2019 about.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> I know<\/em> what I\u2019m talkin\u2019 about, you see what I\u2019m sayin\u2019? And I\u2019m sayin\u2019, we\u2013 ain\u2019t nobody<\/em> safe today. Nobody<\/em> safe today! You see what I\u2019m saying? Nobody.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> That\u2019s the truth. That\u2019s the truth.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> I don\u2019t care how\u2013 You may be up<\/em> today, but tomorrow, you be down, and if you don\u2019t deal with it today, then tomorrow you will not be secure. That\u2019s what I\u2019ve been saying.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Well, people don\u2019t want to believe\u2013 they absolutely (unintelligible under Lane)<\/p>\n

Lane: <\/strong>(cuts in) Oh, it\u2019s comin\u2019. I told CCC, uh, like I said, I, I know my God, he speaks to us, and he givin\u2019 us all kind of chances.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> (unintelligible word) warning.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> To get the house in order, and he\u2013 we refuse<\/em> to get it in order.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yup.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> We rather sit down and moan and cry about the thing. And I say, I said, uh, this is what it\u2019s all about. We\u2019d rather sit down and cry and attack the individual, rather than gittin\u2019 in there and tackling the problem. We ain\u2019t gone have no resources, we (unintelligible word) if we don\u2019t move and move fast, and I told \u2018em yesterday, I said what\u2019s happenin\u2019 in America is happenin\u2019 all over the world, you see?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> It\u2019s a part of a\u2013 uh\u2013 uh\u2013 universal scene. See, and we just can\u2019t be all just\u2013 just carrying for our own. I\u2019m sayin\u2019 to the black community, hey, we don\u2019t\u2013 we shouldn\u2019t have to be worryin\u2019 about, uh, uh, uh, job employment either. Because we got our young people, (unintelligible word)\u2013 but\u2013 but uh, what is happenin\u2019 is, that we have been programed to deal with our culture. And the resources, the raw resources in Africa are (unintelligible word)\u2013 Oh, hold on just a minute, Mike.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Sure.<\/p>\n

(Lane sets the phone down several moments, then returns).<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> The ministry is God. And, and, uh, again, I came to the defense of the Temple in this respect. But uh, the letters came to us about attendin\u2019 the church. Okay. To me, that\u2019s a ministry that I wish our church had. But that\u2019s somethin\u2019 somebody has to take on and do. Okay, and, and our people, not just orientated at that. But what the world needs now is love, sweet love, and we don\u2019t know what love is.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> No, we don\u2019t.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> That\u2019s what it\u2019s all about. And when we get it, we are frightened. And we are frightened. So, I\u2019m sayin\u2019 that you all keep goin\u2019 and\u2013 and tell Jim that, rest and take it easy, because the man may be tryin\u2019 to give him a message.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> (Chuckles) I think you\u2019re right.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And\u2013 and uh, yeah, tryin\u2019 to give him a message. Uh, because it\u2013 it\u2013 if he\u2019s not, uh, you know, if he doesn\u2019t have things together, and if anything happened to him, see, that would be all somebody wants to happen. So it\u2013 That\u2019s what I said to Marvin [Chandler, Executive Minister, San Francisco Council of Churches]. Uh, sometimes he said pause for station identification. (unintelligible word under Prokes) And that\u2019s all he is telling me, pause for station identification.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Well, uh, thank you for \u2013<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Asking about Jim. Right now, he is\u2013 is still on the mission. We bought him a ticket and put him on the plane, insisted that he goes, the doctor said that he had to go. And uh, he\u2019s\u2013 we\u2019re going to try<\/em> to keep him there a while because, here it\u2019s just pressure all the time, around the clock, and uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And there\u2019s no need for it. See, they uh\u2013 This group I was with yesterday, they attacked the uh\u2013 the\u2013 the other thing they was attacking was the redevelopment and\u2013 and the housing. So uh, I asked him, I said, well, what have you done in those areas? Okay. What\u2013 what is\u2013 what is the trend in the country right now. It\u2019s not just San Francisco in redevelopment, they have destroyed neighborhoods, they destroyed our home in Atlanta, and we had been there seventy years in that house. Four generations have come through that house, our home in Atlanta, but they destroyed it. Uh\u2013 they bought it all up and re-zoned and\u2013 and I was raised out there where Atlanta ballpark is, that\u2019s where\u2013 that\u2019s the neighborhood I was raised up in. And I said they destroyed it, and it had a great impact on my mother, because that\u2019s where our roots were.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Right, right.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And they\u2013 they uprooted<\/em> those roots, you see. But you see, when the people were plannin\u2019, they didn\u2019t think about the human dynamics involved in redevelopment. And uprootin\u2019 people\u2019s roots, and what are you replacin\u2019<\/em> \u2018em with?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Uh-huh.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And I don\u2019t care about you uprootin\u2019 and re\u2013 and re-zonin\u2019 and re, whatever you want to do. But just tell me what you gonna<\/em> replace \u2019em with.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And that\u2019s<\/em> the question. We don\u2019t have people on commissions and things, who are dealing with replacement for all that we are displacing<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Okay, and\u2013 and\u2013 and it becomes a real<\/em>, real problem. But I\u2019m sayin\u2019 the Christian<\/em> community ought to be addressing itself<\/em> to that kind of stuff, you see what I\u2019m sayin\u2019. Where you gonna put<\/em> \u2018em? Where are the roots gonna be? You see? And\u2013 and\u2013 uh, uh, uh, uh, and I\u2013 I\u2013 I dealt with the Hunter\u2019s Point yesterday, because Hunter\u2019s\u2013 Hunter\u2019s Point is\u2013 is dynamite.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> We got people out there scared to death to open their mouths.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> I know.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Okay? And I said to them, I don\u2019t want this, that we\u2013 we\u2013 I don\u2019t want us to have a ward system like uh, Chicago, where you just buy folks off.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Okay, I\u2019m afraid of that kind of election, you see what I\u2019m sayin\u2019, that kind of a politics here in this city. But I\u2019m also concerned about people who will get in there and be insensitive to the human needs of the city, you see.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> \u2018Cause we won\u2019t survive as a people, see? But anyway, this is where we are, so I just called to tell you, we\u2019re all in there together.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Right. That\u2019s \u2013<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> (cuts in) Uh\u2013 uh\u2013 but\u2013 but we gonna have to just gonna have to hang on in there, and each one of us has our own ministry, and we do what we can with what we have, and somewhere along the line, I told Marvin, when we come back, what we need to do, I mean for Martin Luther King thing, I was thinking about, maybe we ought to have a retreat\u2013<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Uh-huh.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> \u2013with folks who are involved in doing things in the religious community, or in the<\/em> community, period.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Have a retreat, and do something different for a renewal of the human spirit, because that\u2019s what I was trying to do this last time, and everything got in the way, you see what I mean? But my whole thing was renewal of the human spirit, uh\u2013 uh\u2013 uh\u2013 so we can nurture each other, because the battle is on.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> It is<\/em> on.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And just the be\u2013 and it\u2019s just begun, really.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m gonna tell you something, uh, and this is uh, between you and me.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> I think there\u2019s a chance that uh, Jim will have to resign from that, the Housing Authority.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Right, right.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> And the reason is, that uh\u2013 well, one may be a health factor. Right now, he\u2019s going through testing.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> The doctors have some concern, but they\u2013 they feel that if he can change his schedule, there\u2019ll be no major problem. And, of course, the\u2013 the Housing\u2013 he has tenants calling them all the time, he meets with them, it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s more time than he can afford.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Right, and that\u2019s how come\u2013<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> That\u2019s why he didn\u2019t take the first<\/em> post when it was offered by the mayor, but, uh, also he\u2019s just been too, uh, out front<\/em>. I mean, he took on his fellow commissioners for traveling first class to these, uh, housing commission meetings across the country, and wasting money, and when you do that, you know you make enemies. It\u2019s hard to work with them after that.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Right, that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> And somebody has to be\u2013 just has to be willing to make compromises,<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Right, right.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> And\u2013 and Jim is just too, you know\u2013 he comes on\u2013 when he sees<\/em> something, he calls the shots.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Right, right, right.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> And uh, they, you know, so it\u2019s uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Well, I\u2013 I can appreciate where he\u2019s coming from, because I was\u2013 I was\u2013 I met with a group of women uh, last night that I\u2019m\u2013 that I\u2019m trying to organize and get them to, to uh, really commit their lives to something. And uh, I was talking to them about the same thing, uh, that one of the reasons why we uh\u2013 Christiandom is in the mess it is in now too, is because uh, uh, uh, we have built kingdoms.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And\u2013 and uh, uh\u2013 and we have built\u2013 we have our own gods.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Oh yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Okay, and\u2013 and\u2013 we have our own gods. And\u2013 and\u2013 and they become the thing. That\u2019s why I, even with the council, I have kept a low profile, because I don\u2019t want to be idolized, that unless you\u2019re ready to make a commitment and put your life on the line, because that\u2019s the way I am, see what I\u2019m sayin\u2019?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And I keep<\/em> the low profile in order to keep out of the\u2013 the politics of (unintelligible word) some things, you see what I\u2019m sayin\u2019?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Because I want to do the work and get that kind of satisfaction, \u2018cause there ain\u2019t no joy like that joy.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Okay, and I want to keep<\/em> it that way. But<\/em>, in the same time\u2013 and I\u2019m\u2013 and I\u2019m sayin\u2019\u2013 and I\u2019m sayin\u2019 it to my people, we don\u2019t\u2013 we don\u2019t need to go in\u2013 in<\/em> the paper all the time, but we need to let people know that we are doin\u2019<\/em>things. But that when we start idolizing individuals, then it becomes, the individual that is really under attack<\/em>, that the individual becomes the\u2013 the target<\/em>. You see what I\u2019m sayin\u2019?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And\u2013 and\u2013 and somehow or another, we\u2019re gonna have to find some other way to do it, rather than put our men out there to be killed<\/em>, because people really are\u2013 uh, uh, uh, you get (unintelligible word)\u2013 and I think, just like now, you know, you all have been uh\u2013 uh\u2013 supplyin\u2019 the food, \u2018cause they told me yesterday when I went down there, they didn\u2019t let me go up but I got a chance to talk to them, the leaders.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Good.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And I said to them, great. Uh, that\u2019s where it is. The [Black] Panthers are doing their thing. Great. Just go on and do it.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And\u2013 And\u2013 And stay out of media, \u2018cause media will kill ya.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yup, that\u2019s\u2013<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> That\u2019s\u2013 That\u2019s where\u2013 That\u2019s where the problem is.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> I went down there, and I wish everybody was done, you know, they wanted a\u2013 a statement, then, fine, but I\u2013 I figured they\u2019d get what they need by then, and mine would only be repetitive.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Right, right, and so I\u2013 I\u2013 I told \u2018em, I says, well, I\u2013 I might\u2013 I didn\u2019t come here uh, just to make no\u2013 no speech, I came here to find out what the needs were.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Right. That\u2019s the objection I have, see, \u2018cause people jump on these things and use it to advance their own organization. And we\u2019ve been behind this, and we\u2013 we\u2013 we haven\u2019t even been in the news, which makes me glad, for one.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> Right, right, right, but you\u2013 but that\u2019s right. But then you see, then you can go on and do it, and they\u2019ll know who it is and you can build up your force that way. You see what I mean?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And you don\u2019t give your enemies no\u2013 no\u2013 no target. That\u2019s the whole thing. You don\u2019t give them no target, you see.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> That\u2019s right, that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Lane:<\/strong> And I\u2013 so I\u2013 I went in yesterday and I told \u2018em, I says, uh, there\u2019re couple groups who want to give uh, money and they\u2013 there\u2013 I got some people who want to give some food. And I says but I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t want no publicity behind it. And we just want to give it and do it and forget it. I said, what we all gonna have to learn to do survive in this kind of situation is to go underground.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

(Phone call cuts off)<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Call #5<\/strong><\/p>\n

Ruby:<\/strong> \u2013able to attend the people\u2019s church to speak when he does<\/em> come.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Ruby:<\/strong> They get to say he\u2019s\u2013 let\u2019s see, I think he\u2019s [likely Tim Stoen] going to be here on\u2013 they\u2019ll be arriving on May the thirtieth, and will leave for London on June the third.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Ruby:<\/strong> June the fourth. I\u2019m sorry, the evening of June the fourth.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Ruby:<\/strong> So\u2013<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Okay, well that\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s fine, that this meeting will take place, I mean, sort of, uh, uh, I mean.<\/p>\n

Ruby:<\/strong> At the end\u2013 At the end\u2013 You saying that\u2019s fine, they\u2013 he won\u2019t be there, but uh, Reverend Jim Jones would still like to meet with him if possible.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Right. Not\u2013 not here, necessarily, but, you know, if he meets him before then\u2013<\/p>\n

Ruby:<\/strong> Yeah\u2013 I mean on the twenty-ninth in Grenada.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah, or, shortly thereafter.<\/p>\n

Ruby:<\/strong> Yeah, okay, well, let me know.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Ruby:<\/strong> If you will.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> All right.<\/p>\n

Ruby:<\/strong> All right, take care.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Thanks so much, Ruby, \u2018preciate your help.<\/p>\n

Ruby:<\/strong> Bye-bye.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Bye.<\/p>\n

(Call disconnects).<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Call #6:<\/strong><\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong>: \u2013young man, my son, he\u2019s nineteen years old, and in City Prison. And I couldn\u2019t get him out on R-O \u2013 OR [own recognizance] and they wouldn\u2019t let it \u2018cause he\u2019d been in some stuff before. He\u2019d been in Youth Authority before, and he was out on parole. Now when they picked him up, he had not done anything, he\u2013 they picked him up, they said, on a traffic warrant. And also, I have another son who had found some foreign money, and he had traded it in, (unintelligible word).<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> \u2013and he was with him, and they booked him. They let him out, but they kept him, they said they wasn\u2019t going to let him out because he had been into, uh, trouble before.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Uhhuh.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> Uh, was wondering if\u2013 if uh, the\u2013 could do anything about getting him out, uh, on OR or bail, I don\u2019t have two hundred dollars to bail him out with.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> Uh, so while\u2013 you know, till he goes to trial. He\u2019s not gonna go anyplace.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Okay, uh\u2013<\/p>\n

(Call cuts off)<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Call #7:<\/strong><\/p>\n

Marie Jackson:<\/strong> If (unintelligible phrase), you know.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> And all of that, I\u2013 I just wanted to, sort of explain it to Jim.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, uh, I can\u2019t tell you how much I appreciate your letting us know about it. Uh, you know, Marie, if\u2013 if they write the truth about us, there\u2019s nobody that has really given his life for justice, uh, that Jim\u2013 as Jim has.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah well, I know that.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And (sighs) but, you know he keeps fighting a system that is so fascistic and so full of racism and hate.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Mm-hmm [Yes].<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And naturally, he\u2019s declared himself an enemy of the people that keep food and clothing from the poor.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, right.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And so there\u2013 they really try to do things to hurt him.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, I know it, and\u2013 and\u2013 and this is the second time they came\u2013 They called me about two or three years ago, I think I told Jim about that. And uh, I\u2013 I\u2013 just that somebody that, people that didn\u2019t belong there or something\u2013 and I think it\u2019s because he\u2019s mentioned, uh, I think they\u2019re related to Harry Williams, whoever these people are.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh, some relatives of Harry Williams.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Hmm.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Or something, and\u2013 and I don\u2019t even, we don\u2019t even know<\/em> them, you know. I\u2013 I can remember Harry Williams.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, well, Harry is, you know, still a part of our church.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, I know it.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> So uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> I know it. But if some of his relatives or somebody that told this man, you know.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> That you\u2019d been a part of the church.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, and\u2013 and\u2013 and\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Did he say what paper he was writing for?<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> No, \u2018cause we didn\u2019t even get anything done, \u2018cause, you see, I didn\u2019t want to hear anything I didn\u2019t want to go\u2013 (unintelligible under Marceline)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, okay. And you think his name was Marshall [Kilduff].<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Because we certainly, you know\u2013 Well, you were around when uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> \u2013when [Lester] Kinsolving.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> \u2013Kinsolving. Right. Right.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes. And uh, anything that we can keep from happening, we certainly want to keep it from happening.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Right, well\u2013 well, this why I wanted to, you know, tell you about it and\u2013 and, you know, in confidence (unintelligible phrase) in confidence, and that sort of thing.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes, yes, I\u2013<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> I don\u2019t want anybody to know about it.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, you can be sure it\u2019ll be kept between Jim and I.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, yeah, you because it\u2019s uh\u2013 if it\u2019s some of Harold Williams\u2019 relatives.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Or something, uh\u2013 uh\u2013 uh\u2013 somebody, I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay, well, we\u2019ll certainly\u2013 well, maybe Harry can enlighten us on this thing.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, probably, he\u2013 he can.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, well, can you\u2013 can you remember anything that this reporter was trying to find out from you? Uh, Marie\u2013<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Let\u2019s see. Well, he was asking us, uh, let\u2019s see, why did we (unintelligible) I told him that I was kind of sick (unintelligible word), whatever, and I was working and I couldn\u2019t take too much time off from work, and the ride, you know, we had to go down to Redwood Valley, for\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, that was before we really had<\/em> much going on here.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, well, this is what I\u2019m saying, you see.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes, mm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> So\u2013 But I was just giving him any kind of excuse, I wouldn\u2019t tell him, ya know. And he wanted to know how\u2013 how was the service and this\u2013 (unintelligible). That\u2019s right. He\u2019s even been to\u2013 to some of Jim\u2019s services too, up here.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh, he has.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> He\u2019s been up here, and I think he went down, I don\u2019t know whether he\u2013 I\u2013 I don\u2019t know if he\u2019s been in the Valley or not, but I know he\u2019s been there two or three times.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I\u2019m sure Jim will probably know right away who the person is.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, and he said what do you think about, does he (unintelligible) and my sister happen to be. I said, well, uh, I don\u2019t know anybody else think about it, but I know I had him wrong (unintelligible phrase). But I know I don\u2019t have anymore.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> And uh\u2013 Oh, he said\u2013 asked me uh, how Jim could get uh, so many buses, I don\u2019t know how many buses Jim has now.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, I\u2013 I\u2019ve kind of lost track myself, (laughs) I think it\u2019s twelve or thirteen or something like that.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, that\u2019s what I think that\u2019s what he said. And he knew he had a plane. And uh, how did he get all of this money? And\u2013 oh, all kind of questions and (unintelligible word) told him, you know we wasn\u2019t talking uh, about Jim said I heard that (unintelligible). He\u2019s still very close. And uh, he said I hear that you all have (unintelligible sentences)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> And he was just\u2013 he just wanted information (unintelligible sentences). And uh, we told him no, you know, we told him no. You know, just askin\u2019 us all kinds of questions, and I\u2013 I just wanted Jim to know about it.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, well I can\u2019t tell you, Marie, how much uh, I appreciate it, and I know Jim will appreciate your and Cleveland [Jackson] standing up for him and then letting us know about it.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, I just wanted to\u2013 \u2018cause I always do that for Jim, you know.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> I don\u2019t let people talk about him, even though I\u2019m not there, like I\u2013 (unintelligible under Marceline)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I know, we\u2013 we know well that you\u2019re\u2013 you\u2019re with us in spirit.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> So, and uh, uh, it\u2019s so important that we stick together, because children\u2019s lives and freedom depend upon us sticking together.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Right. Sticking together. And that\u2019s why I thought, I\u2013 I just wanted to let him know.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I really appreciate your letting me know and I\u2019ll let him know. He\u2019ll\u2013 as soon as he comes out from the interior, he\u2019ll be calling me. He\u2019ll be back relatively soon.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, right.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And I just didn\u2019t think I should wait till he got back to make some contact with you.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, right. Well\u2013 well, I\u2019m glad uh, you called me, he said that uh, he was gonna keep bothering us, you know, (unintelligible sentences) why we won\u2019t talk and, oh all kind of things. He\u2019s very persistent.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Sounds like he really has a vested interest in hurting Jim Jones.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yes, he has.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, I really appreciate talking to you, Marie.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Okay, then\u2013 and I just wanted to uh, let you know uh. And tell Jim (unintelligible) I\u2019m gonna try to find out. (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, if\u2013 if you could find out, uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know whether it\u2019d do any good, but (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Mm-hmm. Uh, how\u2013 one of the things I\u2019d like to know, how did he say he would keep bothering you, uh, Marie?<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Because he lied and said\u2013 I asked him how he\u2019d get uh, our address and all this kind of stuff, and he said uh, I got your number, your telephone number out of the telephone book. I said well, that\u2019s a lie, because we are not listed. He said, you know, uh, we can get anybody\u2019s number that we want to, saying uh, you know I know where you live now, and\u2013 and I\u2019ll keep bothering you, until sooner or later you\u2019re gonna tell us what we want to know.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Hmmm. Well, really persistent.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, very persistent.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, if\u2013 if, you know\u2013 if he comes around anymore, will you let us know again?<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> I will.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> The way you did it is fine with Leona [Collier].<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, right.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay, because sometimes it\u2019s kind of hard to get through the church.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Oh, I know it.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And uh, give my love and Jim\u2019s love to Cleveland and everybody there.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, I sure will.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay, it\u2019s good to talk to you.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, it\u2019s good to talk to you too, Marcy.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> You ought to see my baby Jim.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Oh, I\u2019ll bet he\u2019s bigger than\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He\u2019s six-foot-four.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Oh, good Lord. I\u2019ll bet he\u2019s beautiful.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He\u2019ll always be my little baby.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> I\u2019m telling you, little brown baby, I never will forget.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh, I love him.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> He\u2019s so beautiful, little brown baby. He\u2019s a big<\/em> brown baby now.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He certainly is, and he\u2019s very much identified with the black cause, you know.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> No doubt. I can imagine he is.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> So I\u2019m gonna come by one Sunday, you know, to the service, uh, one Sunday.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh. I\u2019d\u2013 I\u2019d love to have you do it.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And uh, thank you so much.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019re quite welcome. Just let Jim know that nobody else\u2013 \u2018Cause, see, some of the members, you know, as always, they\u2019ll talk and say things, you know what I mean.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. Okay, uh, it\u2019s between you and Cleveland and\u2013 and Jim and I.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> Yeah, right.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> All right, then.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Thank you so much.<\/p>\n

Jackson:<\/strong> You\u2019re welcome.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Bye.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

(Editor’s note: This tape was reviewed by Nicole Bissett. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.) To read the Tape Summary,\u00a0click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1,\u00a0Pt. 2). To return to the Tape Index, click here. Call #1: Man: Jones? Jones? I just don\u2019t\u2013 Yeah, I just don\u2019t know. But do you know where he […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":370,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-118719","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/118719","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=118719"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/118719\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":118799,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/118719\/revisions\/118799"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=118719"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}