{"id":122759,"date":"2023-06-01T14:30:32","date_gmt":"2023-06-01T21:30:32","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=122759"},"modified":"2023-06-06T15:17:02","modified_gmt":"2023-06-06T22:17:02","slug":"q133-transcript","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=122759","title":{"rendered":"Q133 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here.<\/a>
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. To listen to MP3, click here<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: No, we don\u2019t\u2013\u00a0We\u2019re non-violent, you know. Don\u2019t\u2013<\/p>\n

Tape turns off for undetermined time.<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: Our people all read the newspapers here. Naturally, over a thousand people, you\u2019re gonna have uh, some dishonest folks and they can go and tell every lie they want to\u2013 to corroborate the lies already been told, and so you know that\u2013 how it works for you. (Pause) It\u2019s a conscious design.<\/p>\n

Unknown male<\/strong>: (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Tape turns off for undetermined time.<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: (unintelligible) They were\u2013 they were an impossible bunch of (unintelligible word) bastards. They (unintelligible) push in there, (unintelligible) they slap some woman, slap some woman up the side of\u2013 a black woman\u2013 slap upside of the n\u2013 neck. Boy, the next thing I said something about, they gone grab my ass, took me out man, shoved my ass into a line and shoved us all into (unintelligible), I\u2019ll be goddamned (unintelligible) we were riding along there, just riding along there, on two benches, just riding on it. So\u2013 (unintelligible) son of a bitch, everybody look, went through two intersections (unintelligible) what the fuck is this\u2013<\/p>\n

Small group laughs<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: I got up there, and only one person tell me to set down. And the rest of them settin\u2019 there (unintelligible), trippin\u2019 right along (unintelligible). I had to walk along (unintelligible)\u2013\u00a0They hadn\u2019t\u2013 they hadn\u2019t taken my name or anything, (unintelligible), hell it wouldna had<\/em> to, once they\u2013<\/p>\n

(unintelligible exchanges for several moments).<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: We didn\u2019t even\u2013 We didn\u2019t even pass the time of day. We went one way, and I went the other way. (unintelligible) But I did look back on the storefront, and I looked back\u2013<\/p>\n

(unintelligible for several moments).<\/p>\n

Man<\/strong>: Nowadays, some fucker would stop me doing a\u2013 a real (unintelligible)\u00a0civil service act.<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: There was a lot of protest in those days. Lot of protest. Oh Jesus.<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: Even in spite of uh, all the shit, huh?<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: My God, the Progressive Labor Party\u2013 We filled the hall\u2013 we filled up the hall<\/em> with about twe\u2013 12,000 people there.<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong>: What year was that?<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: Huh?<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong>: When was that?<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: Well, hell, I wouldn\u2019t know what year.<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: Oh no no no. Earlier than that. It was uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong>: Was it in (unintelligible) before you went to high school?<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: I was just out of high school. It was \u201849. It must have been \u201849.<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong>: (unintelligible) That\u2019s just<\/em> before the real bad\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: It was \u201849. Glen was two, and uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong>: It wasn\u2019t \u201849.<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: It might have been \u201850. I can\u2019t recall. Could\u2019ve been \u201850. (Pause) Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it. I don\u2019t think we were married<\/em> yet. It was \u201848. \u201848.<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong>: Yeah, it would be (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: And I know\u2013 And my wife [Marceline Jones] and I wasn\u2019t married yet, \u2018cause (laughs) my dad, my dad-to-be, father-in-law-to-be [Walter Baldwin] like to shit me. (Laughs while he speaks, unintelligible). He hadn\u2019t had his damn heart attack yet. I was terrible.<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong>: He came\u2013 he came to pick you up\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: (Laughs) He was the president of the city council (unintelligible while he laughs), said you\u2019re gonna get in all kinds of trouble (unintelligible while he laughs), and he says\u2013\u00a0says, mother, you\u2019re not going, and I said, yes I am. (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong>: He was waiting at the end of the (unintelligible) all of a sudden I looked up and there was this huge colored guy behind me\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: (Laughs, coughs). Outrageous. He\u2013 he\u2013 he\u2019da like to die, he said, I\u2019m not<\/em> going in that commie (unintelligible). No way. Communists (unintelligible). Yet she went in there trepiditiously\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong>: The real<\/em> hysteria really\u2013<\/p>\n

Tape turns off and on.<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: The FBI (unintelligible) \u2013went to the Soviet Union. (unintelligible) Now\u2013 now that\u2019s later. Hell, my chronology\u2019s off.<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong>: Did you have your (unintelligible word) on over at the Soviet Union at that time?<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: Well, hell, yes. (unintelligible) Lot of folk ended up<\/em> in the Soviet Union. Folk got rescued<\/em> (unintelligible). That\u2019s where in the hell they had to go. And I was called up\u2013 I was going to be placed next on the next\u2013\u00a0on House Unamerican Activities Committee. (Pause) My name is there. They\u2013 They knew guys in Folsom\u2013 out in California, and that\u2013 that blew that<\/em> one. They got\u2013 They got uh\u2013 The heat come down on that House Unamerican Activities Committee\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman talks over him<\/strong>: \u2013\u00a0San Francisco\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: \u2013Berkeley, yeah. Raised all that fuckin\u2019 hell on the steps, so the House Unamerican Activities Committees meeting was delayed, and the delay went on, the delay, until\u2013 they never did call me. And I<\/em> didn\u2019t know what else to do. He had an adopted child and another boy that he\u2019d reared. I\u2013 I thought I\u2019d have to go to the Soviet Union, for the sake of the family. It was awful being a communist in those days. That son of a bitch\u2013\u00a0nobody had any idea. It was terrible. (Pause) They\u2019re lying to you all the fuckin\u2019 time, giving me hell\u2013 but ignore<\/em> me in the press. That\u2019s what they do to you when you got no power. I never understood why they didn\u2019t have the Star<\/em>\u2013 didn\u2019t\u2013\u00a0their memory banks must have failed them. Why they didn\u2019t remember my communist activities, because they uh\u2013 they do all little shit to intimidate you. I brought in um\u2013 I brought in some monkeys, and goddamn they splashed me on the front page with the headline of those fuckin\u2019 monkeys, but wouldn\u2019t\u2013 they wouldn\u2019t say anything about politics.<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong>: Umm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: That was the closest I ever come to a smear. They still forgot that and let me climb up through the\u2013 \u2018course, I had the black people behind me, that\u2019s the key. Black community that was behind me, whereas in San Francisco they were against<\/em> me, \u2018cause I denounced (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Man<\/strong>: Right.<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: (unintelligible) I had the black community behind me, so I climbed up the\u2013 the ladder and uh, the mayor was uh\u2013\u00a0Mayor (unintelligible name) put pressure on him to appoint me as the Director of the Mayor\u2019s Commission of Human Rights. They have a Jewish community. And that day, the Jewish community and black was\u2013 was like that. And so I was appointed mayor\u2013 uh, the executive, but the Star<\/em> never run a fuckin\u2019 word. Not a word about me. (Pause) Wouldn\u2019t run a word. Anybody got appointed to an important commission like that, first commissioner? Not a word. But someplace along the line, they did. I got so much achieved, and nobody got killed, which made me wonder if I was doing a good job\u2013 (Pause) Scripps-Howard, which has been put out of business, they praised me highly<\/em> for what we did, I (unintelligible) integrated three hundred and some establishments. So they love<\/em> those kind of things. That\u2019s a mistake, you\u2013 you mustn\u2019t do that. You mustn\u2019t do that. But I was always conscientious along the road. I couldn\u2019t set back like some of the communists and say, well you don\u2019t do anything to change the system if everybody was suffering. (Pause) But still, it does\u2013 it does<\/em> play in their hands, because I\u2019m here, I\u2019ve done all of this successfully, integrated 300 businesses, and uh, did it with nothing but conciliatory powers. And I saw\u2013 I been\u2013 I thought, bullshit on this (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong>: too soft<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: Half\u2013 half dead, gettin\u2019 assassination threats, uh, the death of my daughter [Stephanie Jones], trying to do all\u2013 Suzanne, they followed her one day and had her whole route (unintelligible)\u2013 In the middle of it, they spit on Marceline and Jim [Jones Jr.]. (Pause) What else did they do? I don\u2019t know what the fuck they do. Set\u2013 set\u2013 try to set fire to the house, put dynamite in the church co\u2013 uh, basement, put swastikas on my goddamn door, and uh\u2013\u00a0the thing that finally got, got me was\u2013 yeah, head of the (unintelligible) called me and he said, we could use a man like you in the Chamber of Commerce. And he said that (pause) (unintelligible) whatever the fuck it is, junior executive of some damn thing, executive vice president, $25,000 a year, well, goddamn, that was money. I told people in our church, and they thought I ought to ta\u2013 take it. I told them no, no, I ain\u2019t taking that. I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t need uh, that kind of money. He said, you know any other way to get that man like you. \u2018Cause the conspiracies were not\u2013 He was an elder in the same denomination I was in. He was telling me, they\u2019ll get<\/em> my ass\u2013<\/p>\n

Man<\/strong>: Right.<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: \u2013if you don\u2019t comply with this, they\u2019ll get<\/em> my ass. And all kinda<\/em> shit broke loose. They stabbed me\u2013 black man stabbed me, five dollars, he\u2019s drunk, and they set\u2013 the police have to catch\u2013 catch him, and I uh\u2013\u00a0give the guy his ass running around the back side of the house just in time, the police would be hearing there was trouble. Shooting out there in\u2013 the neighborhood, and I lived in the worst ghetto in town. I mean, we were shooting\u2013 we were shooting water. I said Don\u2019t fire. Fire! Pow! (Laughs) I said don\u2019t\u2013 don\u2019t fire. Pow! Somebody leaps over the fuckin\u2019 grape arbor, they go screaming down the way, he hit him in the ass, I don\u2019t know. We shooting back, well, pop pop (makes sounds of bullet flying), Molotov cocktail (makes sounds of bullet flying) (stumbles over words) this going on all the goddamn time, we\u2019re only in town for three hours (people talk together) police, can\u2019t find nobody, neighbors (unintelligible), and people that run down the street, get out of the m\u2013\u00a0get out of the mess. They combine cars\u2013 they combine cars and throw these fuckin\u2019 molotov cocktails. People abandon their houses, went out the backside and down in the alley. And then the son of a bitch, when I went out, was starting that fuckin\u2019 thing with my tank in the car, I think, I don\u2019t know what\u2013\u00a0but someday I went out, and they get\u2013\u00a0they got a man\u2013\u00a0they hit me and\u2013 they got me right here. It wasn\u2019t but superficial, but it was only \u2018cause he was drunk, and uh\u2013\u00a0and I thought, oh shit, now what is this? Now, when you throw it to another man\u2013 You know me. Well, we gotta ask you some questions, and they showed him a picture. They showed him a picture (unintelligible) two cops, always two cops. They showed him (unintelligible word). Two cops did it. And he said\u2013 I said, get his ass out of there. Get his ass out of there. (unintelligible) Aaaah! (unintelligible) I got my shirt changed, \u2018cause (unintelligible) They said, We hear, Reverend Jones, that you\u2019re having trouble here, there\u2019s some difficulty in the neighborhood. I said why no, there\u2019s no difficulty in the neighborhood. Come around, flashed all their lights (unintelligible for several moments) \u2013 for three hours, three hours (unintelligible) it damn near hit her\u2013\u00a0hit her head, shot through Patty\u2019s [Cartmell] hair (laughs). Or Richmond Stahl, damn near hit him, dug out the bullet, said, (unintelligible) he knows, Richmond remembers. (unintelligible) Poisoned my dogs. Sonsabitches poisoned\u2013 you know, they\u2019re mean when you cross their little old system of things. (unintelligible)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. To listen to MP3, click here. Jones: No, we don\u2019t\u2013\u00a0We\u2019re non-violent, you know. Don\u2019t\u2013 Tape turns off for undetermined time. Jones: […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":12,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-122759","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/122759","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=122759"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/122759\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":122825,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/122759\/revisions\/122825"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=122759"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}