{"id":122772,"date":"2023-06-01T15:34:09","date_gmt":"2023-06-01T22:34:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=122772"},"modified":"2023-06-06T15:46:59","modified_gmt":"2023-06-06T22:46:59","slug":"q770-transcript","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=122772","title":{"rendered":"Q770 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

This tape was transcribed by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here.<\/a> To read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>.
\nListen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>,\u00a0Pt. 2<\/a>).<\/p>\n

TV announcement<\/strong>: (Call letters unintelligible) presents Black Renaissance<\/em>, an informal discussion of topics concerning the black community. Your host? Sam Skinner.<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Hello. Welcome to Black Renaissance<\/em>. The title of this book, The<\/em> Streetfighter in the Courtroom<\/em>. Our guest this evening is a man that I have admired. There\u2019s very few lawyers that I admire. And a man that I\u2013 I think that a lot of Americans who understand humanity have to admire. His book is called The<\/em> Streetfighter in the Courtroom<\/em>, his name is Charles Garry, and those of us who have uh, lived through the sixties and were involved in the sixties and the early seventies, know what Charles Garry stands for. The trial of Chicago, the Chicago Seven, there\u2019s a trial that will live on forever, and I always talk about the \u2013 the Democratic Convention that year, that Democratic Convention did something that nothing else was able to do, it brought blacks and whites together in understanding, \u2018cause for the first time, white people saw white<\/em> kids being banged around by policemen. And we could tell \u2018em all the time they used to do that, but until they saw it, they didn\u2019t believe it. Charles, I would like to talk the Chicago Seven trial, and talk about an instance of your\u2013 your\u2013 your book about\u2013 about\u2013 about the trial. A man was taken to court and shackled with chains, because he told this judge [Julius Hoffman], that basically he had no respect for him, and I have not been able to figure out \u2013 uh, maybe you\u2019ll be able to explain to me during the show \u2013 uh, if I had no respect for the judge, and I tell him, so at least he understands that he doesn\u2019t have any respect to say, hey, because his robe does not represent justice, and he is only an instrument and using those books (unintelligible word), why<\/em> did he feel it so necessary to then put Bobby Seale in chains automatically<\/em>, without any doubt in anybody\u2019s mind, if I\u2019m a jury, say hey, those dudes are guilty<\/em>. \u2018Cause if I see you in shackles and chains, that means you are a violent<\/em> and vicious animal.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> Well. (Clears throat) That\u2019s exactly what I tried to portray in the San Quentin Six trial, where all of the defendants, with the exception of one who\u2013 who was no longer in prison at the time of the trial, uh, the shackling and chaining the defendants in the courtroom uh, while we were picking the jury and from the trial thereon, that that immediately prejudiced the jury that our clients were m\u2013 men who had had nothing but force and violence propensities. And uh, going a step further in the Chicago Seven or the Chicago Eight case\u2013 there were originally eight, with Bobby Seale in the case, and I was chief counsel in the case, and uh, ten days before the trial, the doctors told me I had to have an emergency gall bladder operation, and we asked for a 30-day continuance, and the court said No. And uh, Bobby Seale said he would have no other attorney except myself, he didn\u2019t trust anyone else, that I\u2019d represented him in the past, I was going to represent him in this trial, and without me, he was not going to go to trial.<\/p>\n

Now, to begin with\u2013 uh, let\u2019s talk about the judge for a minute. The first time we went into that courtroom was in April of 1969. The first thing that the judge said to Mr. [David] Dellinger, who was one of the defendants, and he said, \u201cYou\u2019ll plead guilty of course, don\u2019t you?\u201d And Dave Dellinger said, \u201cNot guilty, of course.\u201d Then the judge says\u2013 to the clerk, leaned over to the clerk, and he said, \u201cMr. Clerk?\u201d He said, \u201cWill you remind the defendant that that\u2019s not the proper way to plead?\u201d That was the beginning of our first entrance into that court.<\/p>\n

Skinner: <\/strong>And the same (unintelligible word) au\u2013 automatically by the judge.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> \u2018Course. \u2018Course. He was acting the part of a clown, but a clever clown, and he was playing up to the multitudes of the press and the media, and the trial from that<\/em> day until the trial ended some months later, was a circus. And he was the clown<\/em>, the circus master. And uh, every time that uh, there was a repartee between the judge and Bill Kunstler, and if Bill got the best of the judge in the repartee, he would hold him in contempt of court. So when the trial was finished, Bill Kunstler was facing some four years in the penitentiary. (unintelligible under Skinner cough)<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> (coughs, unintelligible) He got the best of the judge that many times.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> Right. And uh\u2013 But getting back to the beginning of that trial, the uh, judge did all of the questioning of the jurors, and it took less than four hours to get that jury, in a highly-controversial case, a case of first impression that was being tried in the United States. It was a conspiracy trial. And I\u2019ll talk about conspiracy in a minute. But while picking the jury, he asked perfunctory questions. \u201cCan you be fair?\u201d Even Adolf Hitler could say he could be fair with the Jews<\/em>, right?<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> And uh\u2013 \u201cCan you be fair?\u201d And uh, of course the defense had submitted some uh, 17 or 18 pages of questions that he should ask, about their attitude of Vietnam War or what their attitude towards uh, Mayor [Richard] Daley, and all the other things, about the Democratic Convention, he didn\u2019t ask any of those questions. And an interesting thing, uh, that happened in\u2013 while picking the jury. A black woman was one of the uh, prospective jurors. And he says to her, said, \u201cWhat do you do?\u201d And she said, \u201cI work for the United States Attorney. I work\u2013\u201c \u201cOh, domestic, of course,\u201d says the judge. United States Attorney says, \u201cNo, your Honor, she\u2019s my secretary.\u201d Now that shows the mentality of this man. \u201cDomestic, of course.\u201d And so when Bobby Seale, who knew<\/em> that he was being railroaded, and he could see all of the pictures of some of the slaveowners presidents on the wall up behind the judge in this federal court \u2013 by the way, I\u2019ve never seen that before in any court, where they have pictures all over the place \u2013 and he sees all of these pictures, and uh\u2013 and the pictures of the men that he has posted up there were all slaveowners, and uh\u2013 and he wouldn\u2019t let Bobby have his own lawyer. He said, \u201cIf you don\u2019t let me have my own lawyer, who is Charles Garry, let me speak for myself<\/em>.\u201d \u201cNo, you\u2019re not going to speak for yourself, either.\u201d And finally after the fifth week of this kind of s\u00e9ance on the part of the court, Bobby Seale said, \u201cI will not<\/em> put up with this any longer,\u201d so the judge ordered him gagged and shackled and chained. And he sat in that courtroom for ten days that way. And it reminded all<\/em> of us \u2013 I was in the hospital at the time \u2013 it reminded all of us that the Dred Scott decision was being reenacted, and uh, it was pathetic. And we were outraged<\/em> at that. Now that was in what, 1970.<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> 1970, when that trial was going on, \u201969 and \u201970. And in 1975\u2013<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Hold it. We\u2019re going to take a break, and we\u2019re gone pick up, we\u2019re gone to the transferal from 1970 to 1975, with our guest, the streetfighter in the courtroom himself, attorney Charles Garry. Join us here in one minute, please.<\/p>\n

[tape edit]<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Our guest today, attorney Charles Garry, who says in his book that it is evident that real justice is not easily obtainable in this country, until we can find answers to poverty, racism, I don\u2019t think we can talk about justice. And we\u2019re not exactly talking about justice. When we left, we were talking about Bobby Seale\u2019s trial, and uh, being shackled in 1970 when that was going on, and the fact that we were reliving the Dred Scott uh, whole thing all over again and we\u2019re now dealing with 1975, San Quentin Six, and nothing has changed.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> Well, something has<\/em> changed. Whereas in 1970 and \u201969, we were shocked to see a Bobby Seale gagged and shackled and chained\u2013<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> We accept it\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> \u2013like a wild\u2013 wild animal, but in 1975, in the San Quentin Six case, the judge [Henry J. Broderick<\/strong>] decided on his own, without any evidence whatsoever, that those six defendants must be shackled and chained, and he told the prospective jurors, the fact that these men are shackled and chained, you\u2019re not to take that into consideration. And uh, for 17 months, these men\u2013<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Set there shackled and chained.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> Shackled and chained. To give you one example of uh\u2013 of many that I could tell, but one that I\u2019d like to tell you. Johnny Spain<\/strong>, the young man that I represent, was shackled and chained, and he had a back problem, and during the course of the time where we were picking the jury, he was uh\u2013 he had to be hospitalized at the San Francisco County Hospital for about six weeks, for examinations, they\u2013 he\u2013 they thought he had cancer, \u2018cause he had this back condition that they couldn\u2019t find an answer as to why that existed. So that during the course of the trial, he said\u2013 he said to me, \u201cTell the judge that I\u2019ve got to go to the bathroom.\u201d And so I said, \u201cYour Honor, excuse me, Mr. Spain has to go to the bathroom.\u201d He says, \u201cMr. Spain can wait for 20 minutes, we\u2019re going to have our recess in 20 minutes.\u201d So what does S\u2013 Spain do after about three or four minutes of squirming around, he urinates\u2013 uri\u2013 urinates right in the courtroom. And just remember that. And uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> The judge was incensed at the fact?<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> No, we won\u2019t say anything about it at this<\/em> moment. At the end of the trial, the judge is justifying why these men were shackled and chained. And one of the reasons that he gave for shackling and chaining the defendants was that Mr. Spain had urinated<\/em> in the courtroom<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> Now what do you\u2013\u00ad how do like that for logic?<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> He justified urinating as reason that he should be shackled.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Well, wait a minute, (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> He was shackled and chained all along anyway.<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Now wait a minute. Now wait a minute. You\u2013 You\u2013 You\u2013 You\u2013 You talking about people who sitting on the bench that are supposed to be college educated, uh, uh, supposed to be\u2013<\/p>\n

(men talk over each other)<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> \u2013intelligent people. And you\u2019re trying to me that somewhere along the line, this judge did not understand, (unintelligible word) got his logic all mixed up?<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> Got his logic all mixed up. To give you an example of the difference in judges and human beings. Uh, long before the trial ever started, we had what we call pre-trial uh, discovery matters and so forth, and we attacked the grand jury in uh, Marin County as being unrepresentative of the peer group of our clients. And uh, in the course of that uh, hearing about the grand jury challenge, which took some six weeks, uh, I challenged the judge who was in the case \u2013 this same judge \u2013 uh, on the grounds that he was a participant in the legal process of the grand jury, and there should be another judge come in. Got that?<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> Now. In the meantime, all during the months that this judge was hearing these motions, the\u2013 the defendants were calling him all kinds of names. They couldn\u2019t stand<\/em> him. They would start with the alphabet and go through it, and you know how pungent those\u2013 uh, the vocabulary is. And the judge himself would act in such a way that would invite this. For instance, the defendants would say these shackles and chains are so tight, uh, our hands are getting numb, or our\u2013 our waist is getting numb, or we can\u2019t write, we can\u2019t converse, because our\u2013 we\u2019re\u2013 we\u2019re chained right to our belt. He wouldn\u2019t say anything at all. He would just completely ignore it. And then after a few minutes, they would start with the alphabet again. They would call him all kinds of names. And it was just pungent. Now this had been going on for almost two or two and a half years in pretrial matters, so that when I made the motion that we ought to have another judge hearing the question of the grand jury challenge, \u2018course he stepped aside, and they brought in a judge who had been retired. His name was Judge Stall. The minute Judge Stall walked in, the whole atmosphere was different. For instance, when he walked in, he sat down at the bench and he said, \u201cHow are you, fellas?\u201d You know. Fellas.<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Mmm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> Human beings<\/em>. And they said in response, \u201cFine, Judge, how are you?\u201d And the judge says, \u201cI\u2019m not feeling so well.\u201d And says, one of the defendants, \u201cTake care of yourself, brother.\u201d You see what I\u2019m getting at? The attitude<\/em>. And this went on for six weeks. And whenever they would complain that the sha\u2013 chains were too tight, he\u2019d get off of the bench, and he\u2019d come over there and look at it, he says, \u201cThis is<\/em> too tight. Loosen it.\u201d They\u2013 the\u2013 the guard would say, \u201cWell\u2013 (fakes a stammer).\u201d \u201cLoosen it.\u201d You see what I\u2019m getting at? Didn\u2019t cost him anything. And at Christmastime, at Christmastime, \u2018cause this hearing was still going on in January, Christmastime of that year, these men, on their own, sent him a Christmas card. All of them signed it with all kinds of uh, cute remarks about, take care of yourself, right on, power to the people, you know, all this kind of stuff\u2013<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> And one of the reporters which was covering the story wrote about the contrast in judges, the contrast in human beings. And of course, after the judge\u2013 the judge found that the grand jury was not representative of the cross-section of the community, and declared the entire indictment invalid, and the state appealed, and then the uh, appellate court reversed this judge, and we had to go back to trial, before the same<\/em> judge that we had all of this difficulty before. And for some 18 weeks\u2013 I mean, 18 months, we were on trial, which was the long\u2013 long\u2013 longest trial in American history, in a\u2013 in\u2013 in a criminal courts. Now the thing that I want to emphasize is where we were in shock<\/em> when we saw Bobby Seale gagged and shackled and chained, in 1975, when that trial started before that<\/em> jury, we accepted the idea of shackling and chaining (unintelligible under interruption)<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Because it had been set in Chicago.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> Right. But it\u2019s that erosion<\/em>, you know, that uh\u2013 it happens a little bit at a time, and the first thing you know, it becomes the way of life. Just like the first time that I walked in to the uh, courtroom in Chicago before Judge Hoff\u2013<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Hoffman?<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> They wanted us to be searched. I said to the other attorneys with me, we\u2019re not going in. We\u2019re going to be searched. So the United States Attorney came and got us, and we went through the chambers of the judge to go in, so we wouldn\u2019t have to be searched. I remember in\u2013 in uh\u2013 in San Bernardino, when I was handling a case four years ago, when a court ordered that I would have to be searched, and my briefcase would have to be searched, I refused to go in. And the press came in, took pictures of me and so forth. Now four years ago. Two years later, in the San Quentin Six case, when the trial started, I had to be searched along with all of the other lawyers three times is before you even walked in the courtroom, you had to go through electric eye, and then when you got into the entrance to the courtroom itself, you had to uh, allow your briefcases and all of your papers, they would go through \u2018em, they\u2019d break \u2018em up to see if there wasn\u2019t some weapons in there. What I\u2019m saying is, that we start out at first by rebelling, then eventually by erosion<\/em>, we give up those basic rights, and uh\u2013 and that\u2019s what I\u2019m afraid is gonna happen in America. When we have a police state, it\u2019s gonna come by erosion.<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Let me stop you just uh, at that point. We\u2019re gone take a break, we\u2019ll come back, we\u2019re gonna talk about the process of erosion of one\u2019s rights here in the United States. Join us in one minute, please.<\/p>\n

[tape edit]<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> The<\/em> Streetfighter in the Courtroom<\/em> himself. Attorney Charles Garry has a book out, it\u2019s an\u2013 the book\u2019s an important document that you read and get an understanding of, because it makes you think about those things which have\u2013 are going on in our courtroom. You know, and you think about it, uh, (stumbles over words), before, when I was telling you about the fact that I was raised as a kid to\u2013 to understand love and cherish the thing called justice. Fight for justice, believe that uh, you\u2013 you should\u2013 a man should\u2013 he must do that. But then you listen, and\u2013 on\u2013 on\u2013 on your television, you lo\u2013 read your newspapers, and you hear judges talk and you realize that justice has nothing to do with what is going on. Uh, so I\u2019m saying that I\u2019m wondering, uh, are we being sold a bill of goods in school about justice, and justice has really got nothing to with uh, what\u2019s going on in the world?<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> Well, you see, uh, when you see the courtroom, they have the scales which is supposed to balance justice, right?<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> And uh, I tell a story in\u2013 in uh\u2013 in my book about Oliver Wendell Holmes, who was a uh, justice of the Massachusetts Supreme Court, and in 1900, he was appointed to go on the United States Supreme Court, where he stayed for many, many years. And uh, they gave him a dinner at uh\u2013 in Boston, a going away party or dinner. And at this dinner, uh, everybody extolled his virtues, and many of them said now that Holmes has gone to the United States Supreme Court, he\u2019s gonna take justice with him. And uh, when it came his time to uh, respond to all of these many gratuities, he stood up and he said, uh, Friends, he said, thank you for the kind words and the salutations, but he said, when I go to the United States Supreme Court, I\u2019m not going to take justice. He said, justice has nothing to do with our courts. He said, our courts are relegated to deciding rules and regulations, so that our society doesn\u2019t run into each other. He said justice belongs into the ecclesia\u2013 ecclesiastics, the clergy and other areas, but not in the courtroom. And before Holmes ever said that, or before I ever heard about Holmes saying that, I knew that that was true. I knew that there\u2019s no such thing as justice in the courtroom. It\u2019s a question of who is right legally. It has nothing to do with justice. As a matter of fact, uh, uh, a person can win a lawsuit and be morally wrong, because morally wrong means that there\u2019s no justice, right? And the question is, how do we get justice? Can<\/em> we get justice? If we had justice in America, or in any part of the world, there wouldn\u2019t be any hunger. There would not be any want, there would not be any deprivation. Because justice requires that human\u2013 human beings be equally treated, have equal opportunities, not only equal\u2013 equal\u2013 equal opportunities, but equal results<\/em>. You know, we keep talking about equal opportunities, it doesn\u2019t make any difference. You and I could have equal opportunities, and immediately you can do things that I cannot do.<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> But equal results<\/em> means something. Then you\u2019re balancing the equities, and then you\u2019re seeing to it that I would get a piece of that pie, and you not get all of the pie. I should get part of it. You see what I\u2019m getting at?<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> Right. Right.<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> And uh\u2013 and until we have that\u2013 if I was a judge tomorrow, there\u2019s nothing I could do. There\u2019s nothing I could do except give temporary relief to someone who finds himself into the clutches of what we call organized law.<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> And yet the newspapers would say, because of your background and fight, that you would be so different, and you would be reigning justice to\u2013 to the courtroom, you understand the people, and as you say, uh, (laughs) if the ballgame has already been set\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry:<\/strong> The rules are there, and you have to follow those rules, and uh\u2013 It has nothing to do with justice. It has nothing to do with equity. Equity means justice. Uh, as a matter of fact, the uh\u2013 even in the old English law, equity was uh, judged on the length of the chancellor\u2019s foot. If he had a short foot, that the equity was short, and if he had a long foot, it was somewhat longer. But it still depended upon his\u2013 the length of his shoe. And uh\u2013 and our world has been that way, it\u2019s a dog-eat-dog society, and today, uh, where we uh, talked about Watergate and the Kent State and everything else, and assume that Watergate is behind us, and we\u2019ve learned our lesson and we\u2019re not going to have unlawful conduct on the part of the government, we just go into the ghettoes of America, any part, the white ghettoes, black, red, and green, it doesn\u2019t make any difference to color. The ghettoes of America know<\/em> that there is a Watergate constantly in their community. They know that the police and the oppression and the hunger and the want is constantly there, and until we solve that, and just uh\u2013 Shortly\u2013 A short time ago, the death penalty was reenacted in California. And the men that we elected to the Sacramento legislature, who are supposed by and large \u2013 because they\u2019re Democrats \u2013 they\u2019re supposed to be closer to the will of the people, or the need of the people. What did they do?<\/p>\n

Skinner:<\/strong> They reversed it. And I hate to do it, Charles, but time has run out on us. We could go on forever. The book is The<\/em> Streetfighter in the Courtroom<\/em>, the man is Charles Garry, a man that\u2019ll go down in history as one of those great lawyers and great human beings. Join us next week for another edition of Black Renaissance<\/em>.<\/p>\n

[Several moments of unintelligible and non-contextual conversation.]<\/p>\n

End of side 1<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Part 2:<\/strong><\/p>\n

Several unsuccessful calls attempted on this side of tape; segments not transcribed<\/p>\n

(Call 1: Marceline Jones and Mrs. Mike Davidow)<\/em><\/p>\n

Dial tone, dialing, ringing<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Hello.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Hello, is this Mrs. Davidow?<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> This is Marceline Jones, Jim Jones\u2019 wife from Peoples Temple.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> How are you?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I\u2019m doing very well, thank you.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Good.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> How are you?<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Uh, I was calling\u2013 I\u2019ve been gone for about a month, and Jim wanted me to call you when I got back and thank you and Michael for all the good things you\u2019ve done for us.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s nice. According\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I\u2019ve been\u2013<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Uh-huh [Yes]. I understand things are looking a little better.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes, they are, and I am so impressed with what\u2019s going on down in the project uh, you know, the health care\u2013 Well, you saw our slides with the\u2013 A lot has been accomplished since I\u2019ve been there. And uh, we hope you can get down to see it sometime.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> (Laughs) You know, I guess we all have the same trouble, getting around. It would\u2013 I\u2013 It would really<\/em> be very interesting. Mike saw it too, the last time uh\u2013 I saw it twice, and Mike wasn\u2019t there the first time, as you remember.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> But he did get there the second time. So he was able to see it.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s great. Well, we\u2019ve had uh\u2013 we had a delegation from the Russian Embassy come down and see it, and they were very, very\u2013 highly impressed, and Cuba and (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Oh, great.<\/p>\n

(women talk over each other)<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> You\u2013 You were there when they came down to see it?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> No, I wasn\u2019t. Uh, when the Russian delegation (unintelligible word), I was.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> You were there.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes. I was very, very happy.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Oh, good. I\u2019m very glad. Listen, Marlene [Marceline], while I got you on the phone, I\u2019ve already told Jean [Brown], on March 12, we are celebrating International Women\u2019s Day.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Did you hear about it?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I hadn\u2019t, \u2018cause I haven\u2019t had enough much time since I\u2019ve been back to talk to\u2013<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Yeah, well, I\u2019m sure. Well, if I can give you the particulars, uh, are you\u2013 well, Jean\u2013 I don\u2019t know if Jean know\u2013 remembers the meeting (unintelligible word), I kinda gave it to her on the fly.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> But do you have uh, uh, anything you can write this down on?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes, yes.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Okay. On uh, March 12, which is a Sunday, at 2 pm, at the uh, meeting hall of the Homestead Savings and Loan Bank \u2013 sounds crazy, but it\u2019s for nothing, it\u2019s for nothing, but that\u2019s why I like it.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s great.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> (Laughs) It\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s uh\u2013 well, they\u2013<\/p>\n

(women talk over each other)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> \u2013(unintelligible beginning) that\u2019s right downtown, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> No, no, this one is on West Portal. The address is 130 West Portal, and it\u2019s near Vicente, the side street. Ne\u2013 Near Vincente. It\u2019s\u2013 It\u2019s\u2013 uh, if you drive, you come up 19th<\/sup> Avenue, and actually, uh, you\u2013 if you could make a left, you would just make a left on Vincente, and that goes right into uh, West Portal, but since you\u2019re not allowed to make a left at that point, you have to make a right at the\u2013 the street before, you<\/em> know it, and make like a U-turn\u2013 Yeah, yeah. And then it\u2019s about three, four blocks from there. That\u2019s all. You go right into West Portal. All right?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> All right.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Now, uh, we\u2019re going to have Soviet women there from the consulate, and uh, we\u2019re\u2013 we have uh, some speakers, we have uh, a Native\u2013 uh, Native American speaking, a young woman, and Vivian Hallinan. You probably know her.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh, good. Yes, I do.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> She\u2019s speaking. And we\u2019re trying to get one other. And a Soviet woman. One of the Soviet women will speak.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh, it sounds great.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> So we\u2019re gonna have a film and we\u2019re gonna have some c\u00ad\u2013 uh, entertainment, and we\u2019ll have some refreshments, and it ought to be a very nice, nice afternoon, so\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> It sounds very good.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Bring\u2013 So you and Jean bring some of your people to that. Okay?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay. We\u2019ll\u2013 we\u2019ll certainly work on it.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Very good.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay. And thank you again for everything that you\u2013<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Oh, you\u2019re welcome.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And Michael.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> I\u2019ll tell him you called.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, and Vic.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Yeah, how is Vic\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He\u2019s doing just fine. He\u2019s very happy down there.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> I\u2019ll bet. Why not? Why not, I say.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> (Laughs) Is he staying down there now?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He\u2019ll be writing to you.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Uh-huh. Is he gonna stay there for a while?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t know. I\u2013 I really don\u2019t know, but he\u2019s very helpful. Very talented.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Good. I\u2019m sure he is. Very fine like that.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He\u2013 he certainly is.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> Yeah. Well, thanks a lot for calling, and we\u2019ll be seeing you.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Take care, and if there\u2019s anything else we can do, why, let us know.<\/p>\n

Mrs. Davidow:<\/strong> All right.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay. Bye-bye.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

(Call 2: Marceline Jones and Michael Snedeker)<\/em><\/p>\n

Dial tone, dialing, ringing<\/p>\n

Receptionist<\/strong>: (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Is uh, Mr. Snedeker in?<\/p>\n

Receptionist<\/strong>: Yes, he\u2019s on the phone (unintelligible). Can you wait?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Uh, yes, I\u2019ll hold.<\/p>\n

Receptionist<\/strong>: Okay.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n

(Long pause)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Hello, Mr. Sne\u2013 Is this Michael?<\/p>\n

Snedeker<\/strong>: Yes.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> This is Marceline Jones, Jim Jones\u2019 wife from Peoples Temple.<\/p>\n

Snedeker<\/strong>: Hello, Marceline.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And I just\u2013 I\u2019ve been gone for a month, and I just got back, and Jim wanted me to call and thank you for all the support you\u2019ve given. It\u2019s a very difficult time.<\/p>\n

Snedeker<\/strong>: Oh, well\u2013 You can uh\u2013 It\u2019s easy for me to do. I think people, you know, I\u2019ve got\u2013 I think when people are pinched like that, they deserve support. No problem whatsoever. (too soft)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019re\u2013 we\u2019re appreciative, and we want you to know that you have a standing invitation to the uh, agricultural mis\u2013 uh, project down there. There\u2019s really some nice things going on down there. I was (static on line) uh, in the way of education and you, know, health care and so forth. We would love for you to be able to come down and visit sometime. Jim just wanted you to know how much he appreciated everything you\u2019ve done.<\/p>\n

Snedeker<\/strong>: All right. You know, my wife and I, we talk from time to time about taking a trip down to South America.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> We would love to have you come.<\/p>\n

Snedeker<\/strong>: If we ever do, well, that\u2019s extra incentive, you know, and the kind of thing we talk about in the late evening when we\u2019re tired, right?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Snedeker<\/strong>: But we might actually do it.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh, we\u2013 we appreciate what both of you\u2019ve done. And please<\/em> do, because I\u2013 I think you would be impressed and I think she would be impressed with the school and some of the mental health care and so forth that we\u2019ve done, and other health care. Uh, we\u2019ve had a lot of uh, dignitaries visiting, and they\u2019re impressed with what we\u2019ve been able to hewn [hew] out of the jungle.<\/p>\n

Snedeker<\/strong>: How are you relating to other Caribbean countries and to the government down there?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Very well, very well. We\u2019ve had visits from surrounding areas and uh, the government there of course is appreciative of the example that we\u2019re setting in the way of uh, developing agri\u2013 uh, uh, agriculture in that area, you know, and\u2013 which is really the only way to feed the world.<\/p>\n

Snedeker<\/strong>: Well, it\u2019s one of the few decent governments on that whole continent down there.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah. Yeah, it\u2019s\u2013 they are a beautiful people, and they\u2019re very appreciative.<\/p>\n

Snedeker<\/strong>: Well, I\u2019m glad you called, and I wish you the best of luck.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And if there\u2019s ever anything we can do to help you, why, please let us know.<\/p>\n

Snedeker<\/strong>: I\u2019ll do that. I sure will.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay. And thank you so much.<\/p>\n

Snedeker<\/strong>: Bye-bye.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Bye.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

(Call 3: Marceline Jones and unknown man)<\/em><\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> This is Marceline Jones.<\/p>\n

Unknown male:<\/strong> Yes, this is (unintelligible name). How are you today?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I\u2019m doing just fine. I just got back after being gone for a month, and Jim wanted me to call and express his appreciation to you for the support that you\u2019ve given us through this very difficult time. And tell him, it\u2019s\u2013 you know, to let you<\/em> know how it\u2019s made it easier for him to build and have strength in the Guyana area, (Laughs) knowing he has friends like you.<\/p>\n

Unknown male:<\/strong> I appreciate that. How is everything going?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Everything is going fine. God is really blessing down there. We have quite a community with uh\u2013 I was\u2013 I\u2013 it had been about four months since I\u2019d been there, and uh, a lot has been accomplished in the\u2013 in the education area, the health area, the\u2013 the religious area, you know, we\u2019re really uh, bringing a lot of people to Christianity in the way of life sharing life. So\u2013 Uh, it\u2019s really becoming internationally known, we\u2019ve had a lot of dignitaries come and see what can be done by hewing a community out of a jungle. So anytime you can go visit, we\u2019d love to have you.<\/p>\n

Unknown male:<\/strong> Oh, well, I\u2019d like to go. I\u2019d like to see what\u2019s being done (unintelligible under Marceline)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> You have a\u2013 you have an open invitation, and uh\u2013 Again, he wanted you to know how much he appreciates your support.<\/p>\n

Unknown male:<\/strong> Well, it sounds like a (unintelligible, too soft) \u2013 appreciate you calling me, and give him my regards, will you?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I certainly will. And\u2013 and thanks again, and if there\u2019s anything we can do\u2013<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

(Call 4: Marceline Jones and John Maher)<\/em><\/p>\n

Temple woman<\/strong>: Hello, may I help you?<\/p>\n

John Maher:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019d like to speak to Rosalynn [Marceline] Jones. I\u2019m returning her call. My name is John Maher.<\/p>\n

Temple woman<\/strong>: Okay, just a second. (Pause) Marceline\u2019s coming (unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Correct.<\/p>\n

(Pause)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Hello, John.<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Hi.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> How are you?<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Punchy, but otherwise okay.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Punchy? (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, uh, I have been gone about a month, and Jim wanted me to call you and\u2013<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> How is he?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He\u2019s doing very, very well. He\u2019d like to be back here, but he\u2019s working really hard on the project down there, and there\u2019s been an awful lot accomplished. It\u2019s really interna\u2013 internationally known, there\u2019ve been people from all around coming to see this\u2013 this community that\u2019s been hewn out of the jungle.<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Fantastic. Very good.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> There was a Russian delegation that came down and\u2013<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Fantastic.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> So we\u2019re very happy with that, and he\u2019d like for you to know that, you know, if you\u2019re interested in doing anything like this ever, you\u2019d be happy to\u2013<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Well, I got something similar, it\u2019s not quite as spectacular, but I\u2013 I bought a\u2013 a town down on an Indian pueblo in New Mexico.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh, you did<\/em>?<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Right, and for some reason, Indians get along with us. They hate everybody else because they\u2019ve been beat up so often, so oppressed, but they\u2019ve got such a huge alcohol problem with kids, that they were just happy when we came, and in fa\u2013 fact have been our\u2013 like, our big friends. So it\u2019s really nice. We\u2019ve got a place, and of course, you and him, the kids, whatever, if you ever in the States, come on down, nobody can get to you, there\u2019s an 18-foot adobe wall around the whole town.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh, that sounds great.<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> And just relax, go fishing and swimming, whatever.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019d love to do that, and maybe sometime you and your family can come and see what\u2019s happening in Guyana\u2013<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Oh, I\u2019d love to. Jesus, I\u2019d love to.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> So. Uh, right now we\u2019re\u2013 uh, you know, our main problem with\u2013 with Tim [Stoen] and this child custody thing.<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Well, I thought from the papers and from my conversations with folks that everything was going to be okay with that, but I\u2013 I mean, I don\u2019t\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, Tim\u2013 uh, we\u2013 we think so, but he\u2019s uh, trying to get [Joseph] Freitas, I think, involved uh, in the thing. I hope Freitas will stay neutral.<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> I can\u2019t imagine that he would. I mean, uh\u2013 you know, that\u2013 that Mr. Freitas would be\u00ad\u2013 you know, take a side like that, I can\u2019t imagine he would.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah. Well, I would hope\u2013 hope not, because it\u2019s a\u2013 a\u2013 you know, the mother [Grace Stoen] left the child [John Victor Stoen] about two years ago, and it would be a devastating thing, not only for us\u2013<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> No, but for the child. Children can\u2019t be abandoned and then picked up later, (unintelligible word) that\u2019s just too devastating.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> That\u2019s uh\u2013 that\u2019s exactly right.<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Yeah, but I\u2013 my\u2013 my conversations with the folks you\u2019re talking about and everything, uh, and the quotes that I\u2019ve seen, are\u2013 have all been positive, you know what I mean, that there was no possible uh, criminal situation by any stretch of the imagination or anything like that, so\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Very good. Good. Well, we appreciate your letting us know when, you know\u2013<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Oh, if I get\u2013 if I get a different uh, rumble, I\u2013 I\u2019ll have somebody over there 15 minutes later to let you know what\u2019s going on. That\u2019s no problem.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Very good, and the\u2013 the reason\u2013 My purpose, though, mainly for calling was to let you know that Jim appreciates so much your support (unintelligible under Maher interjection) time, and he gets concerned, you know, we see what\u2019s happening to Synanon, and these other organizations, and\u2013<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Oh, man. Well, Synanon halfway deserves it, uh, Marceline. I mean, it\u2019s not that they\u2019re terrible fellows, you know what I mean?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah. Oh, I\u2013<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> But uh, some of the things said about them are true. Tell\u2013 tell yourself and Jim to\u2013 to watch your close association there, because the\u2013 What happened is, they went so paranoid that they themselves became a bit like the enemy. You know?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, I\u2013<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> And I can understand it happening, but uh\u2013 Should\u2013 If I were you, I mean, just as advice, I would stay out of that uh, ball of wax, \u2018cause it\u2019s not clear-cut, good guys and bad guys anymore.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay, well, we appreciate your time very, very much, and uh, you know\u2013<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Well, how\u2013 how\u2019s any\u2013 does the Temple need anything in town, or should we do anything or\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh, things are going very well now. I mean, you know, we\u2019re all kinda battle worn.<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> We\u2019re gonna have a big benefit uh, one of them ghastly hundred dollar a plate dinners and stuff, I\u2019ll send you a ticket for yourself, and if Jim\u2019s in town, him or whoever you want to bring, you know, to be our guest and please come. It\u2019ll be April first down at Hyatt Regency. I haven\u2019t got the tickets printed yet, but I\u2019ll send them out in a coupla weeks.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> That\u2019s very kind.<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> And if you\u2019re in town, I\u2019d certainly appreciate it if you came and (unintelligible word) joined us, because I\u2019d uh\u2013 that would show why\u2013 I imagine all the politicians and them people will be there, and I think\u2013 I think what we can do is to just show them that the Peoples Temple still has quite a few friends in the community, and that it\u2019s not something that\u2019s gone to Guyana.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Very good. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that, and it\u2019s nice to know that we have friends like you around. It certainly gives us, uh, courage, you know\u2013<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Is everything okay with the Temple and the work and all that?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Everything\u2019s fine. Just fine. So\u2013<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Very good. \u2018Cause I worry with all of you guys gone that that\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s the time the animals always take advantage, right? The\u2013 the local politicians and nuts.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> That\u2019s uh\u2013 ever\u2013 we\u2019re\u2013 everything\u2019s going\u2013 you know, our programs, we\u2019re still holding up, and everything\u2019s going strong. And uh, as I\u2019ve said\u2013 you know, Jim and I\u2019ve been in the battle for a long, long time, and\u2013 but one of the very positive things that comes out of this kind of harassment, which, of course, this has been the worst<\/em> we\u2019ve ever been through, is to find out who the truly quality people are, and who will stand with you, and there are a few, and you\u2019re one of the very few, and we appreciate (voice fades)\u2013<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019ll have a lot of friends. I\u2013 I\u2013 In fact, I don\u2019t uh\u2013 most of the little people I talk to, your fa\u2013 the\u2013 just little normal working people, got nothing to do with politics or anything, uh, they\u2019re pretty unified on the idea that uh, you got a raw deal. You know, the little\u2013 the little simple guys. And uh, I think in the long run, that\u2019s where it counts.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. Those are the great people. They may not be famous, but they\u2019re great. So\u2013<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> And if anything comes up, whether you have some problem in town in any kind of way at all, you know, and Jim isn\u2019t there, please don\u2019t hesitate to give me a call and uh\u2013 if I\u2019m not here, call Mimi [Silbert] and uh, we\u2019ll do whatever we can to\u2013 to be of assistance.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> All right. Thank you very much, and the reverse is true. You feel free to call us if we can ever help you.<\/p>\n

Maher:<\/strong> Okay. Okay. Bye-bye.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Thank you. Bye.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

(Call 5: Marceline Jones and Tony Williams)<\/em><\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Tony Williams?<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> This is Marceline Jones, uh, Jim Jones\u2019 wife from Peoples Temple.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> Oh, whoa, how are you?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I\u2019m doing very well, how are you?<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> Fine. Where are you, in uh\u2013 in the city now?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019m in the city, and I\u2019ve been gone for about a month, and Jim wanted me to call you as soon as I got back and thank you for all of your support and help that\u2013 (unintelligible under interruption)<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> (Laughs) I wish I could give some more, because I am really<\/em> going through it. I am thinking of moving from here, you know, the rent? Oh, I have to, the rent is 550 now, and it going up 200 dollars more, and I just can\u2019t make it.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh, I\u2019m so sorry.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> Yeah, so I have\u2013 Well, that\u2019s all right, I wanted to kind of semi-retire anyway, so I uh, got a small bakery out on Third Street and uh\u2013 You\u2013 you would know about my coconut bread I\u2019ve been making. So, I\u2019m trying to put that on the market. Someone is helping me to do it, so\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, if we can be of any assistance, you know, give us a buzz.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> Oh, right, where\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> What is the address of where you\u2013 (unintelligible under interruption)<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> It\u2019s 4912 Third Street.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> 4912 Third Street.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> I wanted to talk to someone there. Who can I talk to about this bakery that I\u2019m doing, and give me some advice and some help or something. Who can I talk to?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Mmm, let me think. Uh, I could have uh, one of our ladies call you next week. (Pause) Yeah, I\u2019ll have her call you. How would that be? Okay.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> That would be fine. I need to talk to someone and\u2013 you know, and get some advice and some help or something, because, you see, this bread (coughs) is really not a commercial bread, you know, and uh, I had three different bakeries order to put it out for me, but they all wanted me to cut up\u2013 down on the ingredients, you know, and\u2013 and they say, oh, you can make a lot of money, I said, oh, I\u2019m not\u2013 I said, I love money, it\u2019s true but\u2013 (laughs) like everybody else, I said, but I\u2019m not interested in that and, you know, \u2018cause I couldn\u2019t face my friends, you know, after they know what kind of bread I\u2019m making, to make this so\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> There are a few people like that.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> Yeah, well, of course, I know. My God. (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> You\u2019re a beautiful person.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> Thank you. Even Herb Caen had me in the column once, and said I coulda made a lot of money on the bread, if I wanted to, you know, but that\u2019s\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019ll have uh\u2013 we\u2019ll have our lady here\u2013<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> You\u2013 yes, if she would come and\u2013 and talk to me, I\u2013 I\u2019d\u2013 Let me talk to her, rather, and tell her the difficulties I\u2019m going through, and see if she can help me in some way.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> All right. I certainly will. And again, uh, Jim wants you to know how much he appreciates what you\u2019ve done, and things are moving\u2013<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> Oh, well, he\u2019s such a beautiful way\u2013 I hope everything moves all right now for him.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, things are moving beautifully in Guyana, we have quite a community where\u2013<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I heard. You know, I wanted to take a trip to Trinidad this year, but I just couldn\u2019t make it, but I\u2019m open\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> When you do, now, you go\u2013<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> Oh, sure, (unintelligible word)\u2013 \u2018cause that\u2019s my home, Trinidad. You know. Have you been to Trinidad?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I certainly have, and that\u2019s just one hour\u2019s flight from Georgetown.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> Yeah, that\u2019s what I heard.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> So whenever you get down there, why, you have an open invitation\u2013<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> I have to go down and see my par\u2013 No, I\u2019ll never go to Trinidad without going to Guyana, you know that. (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> Well, thanks a lot for calling me. And will you do that right away for me, have her come and see me?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes, I will. I will.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> Gee, you know, this is a blessing that you called me to tell me, \u2018cause I was going out of my mind, I wanted to see someone I can talk to and just talk\u2013 tell, you know, this is really a blessing. (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I\u2013 Well, I\u2019m so glad (unintelligible under interruption)<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> It really is.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> We\u2019ll get in touch with her and send her over.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/strong> Okay, thank you, then. Bye-bye.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Bye.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

(Call 6: Tim Clancey and office of Senator Paul Sarbanes)<\/em><\/p>\n

(Editor\u2019s note<\/strong>: Aside from Tim Clancey\u2019s introduction of himself to an aide for Sen. Sarbanes, this six-minute call is virtually inaudible, and its remaining segments were not transcribed.)<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

(Call 7: Marceline Jones and Rodney Williams)<\/em><\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> This is Marceline Jones.<\/p>\n

Rodney Williams<\/strong>: Yes, this is Rodney Williams, returning your call.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes, Rodney, I just uh, returned after being gone for a month, and Jim just wanted me to call you and tell you how much he appreciates the support you\u2019ve given us during this very difficult time.<\/p>\n

Williams<\/strong>: Oh, okay. How is he?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He\u2019s doing beautifully. Uh, he\u2019d like to be back here, but of course, wherever he is, he makes the best<\/em> of it, and uh, there is quite a community being built in Guyana that is really\u2013 people from all over the coun\u2013 uh, the world have come, you know, from different nations and they\u2019re highly impressed with what we\u2019ve built there, so we uh\u2013 we like to see ourselves as really doing a good thing in public relations for the United States down there. But having friends like you, you know, gives us courage and gives him the strength to keep on struggling. And uh, if you ever want to go, you know, you have an open invitation to be there.<\/p>\n

Williams<\/strong>: Okay, I keep that in mind, I (unintelligible under Marceline)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Please\u2013 please do, because I know your struggle\u2019s difficult too, and if we can ever be of any help, just call.<\/p>\n

Williams<\/strong>: And vice versa.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Williams<\/strong>: Okay. Thank you for calling.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes, and thanks so much for returning my call.<\/p>\n

Williams<\/strong>: Okay.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Bye-bye.<\/p>\n

Williams<\/strong>: Bye.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

(Call 8: Marceline Jones and Joe Hall)<\/em><\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Marceline Jones.<\/p>\n

Joe Hall:<\/strong> Uh, yeah, Marcy, Joe Hall. How are you?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes, Joe, well, I\u2019m doing very well, and I just came back after being gone for a month, and Jim just wanted me to call and express his gratitude and I want to express mine too to you for your support during our very difficult time.<\/p>\n

Hall:<\/strong> Okay, well, I certainly appreciate\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> \u2013everything you\u2019ve done. It\u2019s been difficult but, uh, some good things happen, you know, like finding out who your friends are and who will stand with you. (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Hall:<\/strong> I\u2013 Sure\u2013 I understand.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> So. I appreciate your returning my call.<\/p>\n

Hall:<\/strong> Okay. Well, anything I can do, Marcy, just let me know.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay, and if there\u2019s anything we can ever do, why, Jim wants you to know\u2013 And of course, you have a standing invitation to go to Guyana and see (unintelligible under Hall)<\/p>\n

Hall:<\/strong> (Laughs) Okay.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> \u2013community that\u2019s being built down there.<\/p>\n

Hall:<\/strong> Yeah, I understand it\u2019s quite fabulous.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> It certainly is, and we\u2019ve had some rather prestigious uh, visitors from other countries there, and they\u2019re really impressed with what can be done in a little jungle. So, I appreciate your returning the call.<\/p>\n

Hall:<\/strong> Okay. How\u2019s Jim doing, by the way?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He\u2019s doing great. Just very well. He\u2019d like to be back here, but wherever he is, you know, he\u2019s busy uh, trying to build a better world.<\/p>\n

Hall:<\/strong> Surely.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> So he just want\u2013 asked me to be sure to call to call you and thank you for what you\u2019ve done.<\/p>\n

Hall:<\/strong> Okay, Marcy, well, I certainly appreciate your call, and I\u2019m always wishing the best for you, Jim and the whole, uh, uh, Temple effort, you know.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n

Hall:<\/strong> So whatever I can do, just let me know, and I\u2019ll do it.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> All right. Thank you. Thank you so much.<\/p>\n

Hall:<\/strong> Okay, Marcy.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay. Bye.<\/p>\n

Hall:<\/strong> Bye now.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

(Call 9: Marceline Jones and<\/em> Christine Vasquez)<\/em><\/p>\n

Vasquez<\/strong>: (unintelligible name) Can I help you?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes, is uh, Christine Vasquez\u2013<\/p>\n

Vasquez<\/strong>: Yes, this is she.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> This is Marceline Jones from Peoples Temple.<\/p>\n

Vasquez<\/strong>: Oh, hi, how are you.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Hi. Thank you so much for answering my call so quickly. Uh\u2013 And what a charming child answered the phone at your house.<\/p>\n

Vasquez<\/strong>: Oh, thank you, my daughter.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Really cute. Anyway, uh, the reason I\u2019m calling, I\u2019ve been gone for about a month, uh, to Guyana, and Jim wanted me to call and thank you for the support that you\u2019ve given us during a very difficult time.<\/p>\n

Vasquez<\/strong>: Oh, no, no. It\u2019s a\u2013 All I can say is, it\u2019s no obligation, so this, you know\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, but there are very few that have, you know, stood like you have with us, and uh, he wanted me to call you and I want you to know he appreciates it, and I do beyond words. And if ever you can make a trip to Guyana, I would like for you to see the beautiful project down there.<\/p>\n

Vasquez<\/strong>: I would love to do that. I would really love to do that.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> So you\u2013 you plan for it. You\u2013<\/p>\n

Vasquez<\/strong>: Oh yes, I will.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Vasquez<\/strong>: And uh, I tell you one thing. It has been a pleasure for me to be able to help in any way, the Peoples Temple, and anytime, you know, we\u2019ll always do it.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Thank you. And feel free to call us if we can ever be of assistance. (unintelligible word) I\u2019ve been married to Jim for 28 years, and\u2013 and he\u2013 his life is working for the oppressed\u2013<\/p>\n

Vasquez<\/strong>: I know that.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And uh, we are available anytime we can be of any assistance.<\/p>\n

Vasquez<\/strong>: Thank you very much. Thank you, Ms. Jones.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay. Thank you very much for calling.<\/p>\n

Vasquez<\/strong>: Okay. Bye-bye.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Bye.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

(Call 10: Marceline Jones and<\/em> unknown male)<\/em><\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> \u2013Jim Jones\u2019 wife.<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: Yes, yes, yes.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> How are you?<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: Oh, how nice to hear your voice.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s nice to talk to you, and I have been gone for a month, and it\u2013 Jim wanted me to call you as soon as I got back and\u2013<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: So how is he feeling? How\u2019s his health?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, his health is fine, and he\u2019s doing very, very well. They\u2019re building quite a community down there. It\u2019s gaining na\u2013 international uh, recognition. People have come from all over to see it. So you, you know, have a standing invitation to go and visit.<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: Oh, boy, I cer\u2013 good gosh almighty. Uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Uh, he wanted me to call and especially thank you for the support that you\u2019ve given during this very difficult time.<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: Yeah, I wanna write another letter to that Health, Education and Welfare person.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 Oh, I wanted to tell you, that that has worked out. We got an apology from them. We thought we might have to go and do a class action suit, but uh, that has worked out. So, you don\u2019t have to do that.<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: Oh, okay\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay. (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: Well, again, (unintelligible word) it\u2019s seems as though, uh, right after you left, I had a little bit of uh, uh, uh, gangs and gangs of papers on my desk and everything. (Coughs)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, I under\u2013 I understand that so well. You sound like you\u2019ve got the flu.<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: No, no, no, no. Uh\u2013 I\u2019ve been working nights, and I guess I\u2019m still partially asleep.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh, I\u2019m so sor\u2013<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: No, that\u2019s fine, that\u2019s fine. I had\u2013 I wish my voice was like this all the time. (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I really hate to wake you up.<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: Oh, that\u2019s fine. That\u2019s fine. Uh, gosh almighty, I\u2013 so things are going very well out there, huh?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes, they are. I was\u2013<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: What is that weather? It\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s tropical there, it\u2019s warm all the time, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s uh, about 70 with a nice tropical breeze. It\u2019s a beau\u2013 very beautiful place. Uh, the thing that hasn\u2019t been done, you know, is to really try to develop agriculture in tropical areas, and this is what we\u2019re trying to do, to\u2013 Rhat\u2019s the only way we\u2019re gonna feed the world, you know. And uh, a lot of that has been done, and there\u2019s also a beautiful school, and uh, the medical uh, care that\u2019s being given in Jonestown and of course surrounding areas by our doctor and our\u2013 and our health staff is really outstanding.<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: Well, this is what I call real<\/em> missionary work.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well\u2013<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: This is real missionary work, and like, I suggested\u2013 like, I suggested to Jim, uh, at last time, there\u2019s no defense for slander.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well\u2013<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: They\u2013 you so\u2013 allowed yourself to be judged by your work, you can\u2019t let them get away with too much, but you can\u2019t be used. Just show your faith by your work.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, this is true, and if you get down trying to even answer that kind of slander, you know, you\u2013 well, it\u2013<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: Get bogged down.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. It keeps you from going ahead with (unintelligible under interjection) kind of thing. And uh, good things happen out of uh, difficult times like this, you find out who your friends are and who will stand with you.<\/p>\n

Male<\/strong>: I\u2019ll tell you\u2013 I\u2019ll tell you this. I\u2019ll tell you this. When you\u2019re doing the kind of work that\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s being done by your great organization, you can not\u2013 being attacked, you better take a look at your hole card. You better take a look around and see what\u2019s happening to you. If you\u2019re not being attacked\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I\u2013 I know that\u2019s true, and uh\u2013<\/p>\n

End of tape<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

This tape was transcribed by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1,\u00a0Pt. 2). TV announcement: (Call letters unintelligible) presents Black Renaissance, an informal discussion of topics […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":517,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-122772","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/122772","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=122772"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/122772\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":122846,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/122772\/revisions\/122846"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=122772"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}