August 4, 1978<\/p>\n
TC [Tim Clancey]:<\/strong> Fine.<\/p>\n GL [Gordon Lindsay]:<\/strong> \u2026 been away for a day.<\/p>\n TC: <\/strong>Yeah, something personal came up.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> OK. What is the answer to the thing we talked\u2013 the questions\u2013<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, we forwarded the questions overseas. We can\u2019t do that kind of traffic over the radio. Uh, just in general, it is my opinion that the nature of the questions shows a\u2013\u00a0 definitely a negative bias, and I didn\u2019t see any intention there of trying to do a two sided story. From our perspective.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Well, we ask all the questions about what\u2019s going on down there, yegg beets? what have you, and we also tried to get at the fact that these allegations have been made.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, we know they\u2019ve been made, but I mean there\u2019s a lot of background behind those allegations too, and there was nothing in your questions to indicate that there was going to be in a kind of coverage of that, like, you mentioned the threatening phone calls\u2013 how would we know people’s unlisted numbers? You\u00a0 ought to be looking into\u2013 if you\u2019re really investigating the story and researching the entire background of it, you should be looking to people who encourage you to write this kind of story in the first place, sources that\u2013<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> I was encouraged to write the story by a person completely outside the Peoples Temple\u2013 heard\u2013 called a private detective\u2013<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> A private detective.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> \u2013 and she happened to be a friend of mine and she heard about this, and she said, why don\u2019t you look into this, and that\u2019s exactly how I heard about it.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, there\u2019s definitely more to look into\u00a0 then just that, because, I mean that, those kinds of things are ridiculous there being attributed to us.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> I can\u2019t hear you well.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> I said that those kinds of allegations that are being attributed to us are utterly ridiculous. Uh, you could take voice prints, and listen to the prints, if you wanted to do that.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> We have done voice prints.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Oh, you have done voice prints. Well, I\u2019m sure if you have, you can compare those and see\u2013<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> These voice prints compared very favorably\u2013<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> What compared favorably?<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> The people we have the voice prints done on\u2013 telling the truth.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Regarding what?<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> The people we have voice prints done on.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> People you had voice prints done on. Oh, you took lie detector tests of people or something?<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> No, voice prints are a form of investigation. I\u2019m sure you know that.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Yeah, uh.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> comparing\u2013<\/p>\n GL: <\/strong>\u2013 under stress.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Oh, comparing voices under stress. Oh, that\u2019s not what I was referring to. I was suggesting that, you had mentioned that phone calls have been made threatening people, that you could compare the actual voice prints to see the people who have been claiming that we have threatened people, that it\u2019s absurd, that we haven\u2019t done anything.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Unfortunately, no one has a tape of anyone calling up. Uh\u2013 that have called up,\u00a0 they\u2019ve not taped it, so unfortunately there\u2019s no witness. Most people in this world don\u2019t go around with a phone\u2013 like I do, I had you taped earlier.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Yeah, I know you do.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> And uh,\u00a0 so no one can come back at me. Cover both\u00a0 (unintelligible) with my phone. Which is very important in this world\u2013 reporter\u2013 journalism\u2013 because no one goes around taping people on telephones\u2013 what it comes around to, is Mr. Jones going to answer the questions or is he going to be silent?<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, he hasn\u2019t gotten the questions\u00a0 yet, like I said, we couldn\u2019t send them over the radio.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong>\u00a0 I know.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Were you going to\u2013 I understand\u2013 ten days\u2013 Georgetown.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, it takes a something like that, I would suppose. We wanted to make sure that he saw the questions verbatim as you had given them to me.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Well, have him called the Peoples Temple in Georgetown at my expense, and I will read the questions to him.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, uh\u2013<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> That will certainly cut out the delay.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> We can discuss that. I mean, they are forwarded on their way, I uh\u2013<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> That was only two days ago. That\u2019s not much (unintelligible)\u2013<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, let me see what we can do then.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Well, I have a number in Lamaha Gardens. I would be delighted to give him a call, they can take it down on\u00a0 tape recorder, I may surely they can ask the questions from Georgetown to Jonestown.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know if they can do that over the radio. I think it\u2019s the nature of the traffic that restricts, certain regulations\u2013<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> \u2013 US government flies my questions like they fly the mail.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Pardon me?<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Maybe the US government will fly my questions like they do the mail to Jonestown.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t know. Uh\u2013\u00a0 Understand that all we\u2019ve heard are malicious fabrications, and you don\u2019t appear to be in any respect interested in\u2013<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> You chaps around all these things very charmingly, malicious fabrications.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, they are malicious fabrications. It\u2019s not throwing around charmingly, I mean that happens to be a matter of fact. They\u2019re not true.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Well, why should so many people lie? Would you answer me that question?<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Why do so many people lie?<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Yes. Why is Debbie Layton lying?<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good question.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m asking you, why would she lie?<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Pardon?<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Why would she lie? What is she got to gain by this lying?<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good question.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Well, she has nothing.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> She has nothing to gain.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> No, what does she have to gain? Her mother [Lisa Layton] is diagnosed, dying of cancer. What is she got to gain?<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, for one thing, she\u2013<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> The only thing she\u2019d have to gain is to get her mother out of there.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, she is certainly not doing that by stealing her mother\u2019s money.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Now, are you making that charge, Tim?<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> That\u2019s a charge that her mother made.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> You\u2019re making that charge.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> I\u2019m not making that charge, Mr. Lindsay, I\u2019m repeating a charge that her mother made.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> OK, fine, because Mr. [Charles] Garry told me that that was off the record. You put it on the record.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> No, I\u2019m not putting it on the record.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> You are though.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> No, I\u2019m not, sir. That is something her mother made.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> I\u2013 OK, good enough. She sold $15,000, according to Mr. Garry, and I\u2019ve kept that off the record.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s the way it will be then.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> OK, well, why hasn\u2019t Mr. Garry charged Debbie Layton was stealing $15,000?<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> That I do not know. He\u2019s our attorney, and I\u2019m certain that, if he\u2019s in the middle of preparing a case\u2013<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> \u2013 think that\u2019s going to help him talk about this, by, she\u2019s stolen $15,000, is not going to help Debbie? [line of x-ed out type] to talk about the fact that she\u2019s down there, and all these things that she says have happened?<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know, I\u2019m just saying there\u2019s more to it than meets the eye.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> And living in a horrible, crummy little apartment in San Francisco?<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> A horrible, crummy little apartment in San Francisco?<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Have you ever seen it?<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> My partner has. He\u2019s been there\u2013<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Oh, he has. Who is your partner?<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> My partner\u2019s Saul (or Phil) Baker\u2013<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> I\u2019ve never heard of them.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s fine. (Laughs)<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Oh, he\u2019s visited Debbie in San Francisco.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> You see, he\u2019s a photographer, very well known.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> I see.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> \u2013 but he doesn\u2019t move in Jones\u2019 circles, I gather.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> No, I don\u2019t\u2013 Well\u2013<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Anyway, I will be delighted to call Georgetown and relate my questions because, I would think at the moment that these are what is known as delaying tactics, and I just want to know if he is going to answer the questions or not.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Uh, he\u2019s going to have to see them before he answers them.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Well, I still don\u2019t understand, you people talking up to six hours on the radio, it doesn\u2019t take that long to get those questions over.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s the nature of the traffic, Mr. Lindsay.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> I don\u2019t understand that.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s the way it is.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Well, what do you mean by the nature of the traffic? I mean, I\u2019m na\u00efve, I guess.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, look at the questions. I mean, certain things just can\u2019t be put over the radio.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Oh. Because other people might pick them up.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Hm? No.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Do you know it\u2019s wrong, trouble in your line over there?<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Do you hear an awful lot of static on it?<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> No, I don\u2019t hear any static.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Must be on my end. OK, the other thing, I did talk to Mrs. Davis.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> You did?<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Yeah. I thought you knew, it was on the radio last night.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Oh, it was?<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Yeah. Uh, she was a very pleasant lady. Very pleasant. Unfortunately she didn\u2019t tell me very much. I mean, I asked a lot of questions, and all I got were very cryptic answers. She certainly did give a glowing report of Jonestown.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, as I said, I was up there, so I really have no background on that.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> I would suggest if I were in your position, get people that are more vocal, if they go down there, and want to talk to the press.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, I mean, that wasn\u2019t her intention in going down there. She went down there to visit her daughter, I understand, not to go down there so she could talk to the press.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> You don\u2019t understand, if you\u2019re going to suggest to the press that they have certain people talk to us, but they be a little quicker on their feet. I mean the poor lady is charming, as I say, very, very pleasant, but she just doesn\u2019t really, you know, know what\u2019s going on, apparently, and uh,\u00a0 you know, how, you know, what\u2019s nice down there and uh\u2013<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, maybe the things that you think are going on aren\u2019t really going on.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> No, no, I\u2019m asking her about, \u201cwas it nice down there\u201d \u201cyes\u201d \u201cwhere did you stay\u201d \u201cin a room\u201d \u201cwhat sort of a room\u201d \u201coh, a nice sized room\u201d \u201cwhat size was it?\u201d \u201coh, I don\u2019t know.\u201d<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t know, maybe\u2013<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Unfortunately, it wasn\u2019t too helpful. People (unintelligible)\u2013 as I say, I\u2019ll talk to anyone.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> Fine, well, let me\u2013 I\u2019ll check and see about this phoning the questions over to them.<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> Yeah, okay.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> You\u2019ll be at your office?<\/p>\n GL:<\/strong> I\u2019ll be at my office, yeah.<\/p>\n TC:<\/strong> OK, fine, goodbye.<\/p>\n End of conversation<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Array<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":13147,"menu_order":3,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-13149","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/13149","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=13149"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/13149\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":18857,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/13149\/revisions\/18857"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/13147"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=13149"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}