{"id":133516,"date":"2026-01-31T10:47:44","date_gmt":"2026-01-31T18:47:44","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=133516"},"modified":"2026-01-31T10:56:48","modified_gmt":"2026-01-31T18:56:48","slug":"tapes-of-mary-ruth-on-laurence-mann-june-77","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=133516","title":{"rendered":"Tapes of \u201cMary Ruth\u201d on Laurence Mann, June 77"},"content":{"rendered":"

[Editor’s note:\u00a0<\/strong>There are several codes in this document. Mary Ruth is Paula Adams, Mr. Hill is Jim Jones, and Mr. X is Guyana’s ambassador to the US, Laurence “Bunny” Mann, with whom Paula Adams had a long-term relationship. The initials “BM” also refer to Mann.]<\/em><\/p>\n

D-2-A-5<\/p>\n

Note from Paula Adams to Jim Jones about documented conversations, June 1977<\/strong><\/p>\n

TO: MR. HILL [Jim Jones]<\/p>\n

FROM: MARY RUTH [Paula Adams]<\/p>\n

JUNE 7, 1977<\/p>\n

I just spoke to the man you respect so much on the telephone as the letter was submitted less than one hour ago. He asked for me, asked how I was and then asked how the conversations were \u201cdocumented.\u201d I said, \u201cBy tape.\u201d He said, \u201cGood, good, good.\u201d He then asked if it was recent I said, \u201cWhen he came down for Claude Worrell\u2019s funeral.\u201d He said, \u201cGood, good, good.\u201d He then asked me when the Bishop will be coming down. I said, \u201cThe end of June or the first of July.\u201d He said, \u201cGood, good, good.\u201d I told him I would give the tapes to the man I owe my life to. He said, \u201cAll right.\u201d<\/p>\n

That was all of the conversation. He sounded very pleased.<\/p>\n

There was a paragraph in the letter which said I will continue with the project unless he advised me otherwise. I forgot to mention it on the telephone and he did not say anything to the contrary, so I suppose that means I should pursue it for the one aspect of illegality in exchanging foreign dollars. I imagine more material on an even more recent basis would be helpful to him. Please advise, as the diplomat I am referring to will be in town on June 12th. Should I proceed or not?<\/p>\n

I was relieved to get his call, because I thought I had totally bungled the whole thing and made you out to look like a fool. The material accumulated is disgusting, but not unusual, so I wasn\u2019t sure if he would find it useful.<\/p>\n

—–<\/p>\n

D-2-a-6a<\/p>\n

[Editor\u2019s note<\/strong>: As Paula Adams explains in the note that follows, the transcript below is a slight variation on notes made by Paula Adams on the same conversation, that appears <\/em>here<\/em><\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n

(This is a completed transcription of the tapes which document the statements. Please excuse the previous one which was both incomplete and had several typing errors. I was trying to finish it for that meeting in a rush and did not take time to correct mistakes.)<\/p>\n

COMPLETE TAPE QUOTES FROM LETTER DATED JUNE 7, 1977. Submitted June 23, 1977.<\/p>\n

Hey, Fred [Wills, Guyana Minister of Foreign Affairs]. Yes and tell her that there are no vacancies. I can only hope that some other mission will contact us. Sorry that we couldn\u2019t have the girl, but we\u2019re fully staffed. I had a long talk with Corbin and Winnie Aagard. I told them that what we should do is move very slowly. Try to make interim arrangements until we get someone adequate for a whole lot of reasons. [Claude] Worrell was fairly unique because he was a lawyer trained in American law and went to school in Washington, and knew all the judges. In the US, you can ring up the judge beforehand and tell him that one of your nationals is appearing beforehand and he\u2019ll tell you what the sentence is going to be or whether he will let him off. It is simple as that. I said that Prior and I will try to do all national\u2019s complaints, and with political work, insofar as making speeches and so on. I\u2019ll simply go and do it. As long as it is in the interim. You see, one of the problems is that Worrell was virtually an embassy within an embassy, and if we put in anyone who was less able than he, you\u2019ll create an awful lot of friction. Secondly, I know some things you can\u2019t find in a week or two, that kind of person. There were two people I suggested that I like, and one of them is big fat Leon Dundas from Springlands and the other is brown-skinned chap named Hutton, but not as permanent, but to do something with the nationals. Both are pretty convincing speakers, and they could do some of the political work. That is half the problem, they wouldn\u2019t. It seems to me that Hutton or Dundas would be the kind of person to do the political work. They could act in some capacity or other. I don\u2019t want Winnie Aagard or Corbin to surprise me. Let\u2019s keep in touch.<\/p>\n

Essentially, he heard I was here, and just wanted to have a chat and ask how I found things up there and little things very nice here. He said there were two things which were a little difficult for him: the ILO thing and I see in the papers that we\u2019re not doing anything so that seems to be the end of that and the second<\/p>\n

—–<\/p>\n

D-2-a-6b<\/p>\n

Page 2<\/p>\n

was that he thought we were carrying the Cuban vote (or ball) in Delhi on the Puerto Rican independence issue (he is talking about John Blacken, Charge d\u2019Affaires of the US Embassy), so I told him that this is not true, that I have talked to the participants and to the contrary, we were extremely low keyed. It is wrong information. He promised to show you the cables he got out of New Delhi. I think Rashleigh [Jackson, Guyana Foreign Minister] should make a point to talk to Andrew Young [U.S. Ambassador to United Nations] about it. So there are several points of contradiction. Surinam is getting pressure we are getting because people are saying look what happened. They are saying that these fellows were saying that they wouldn\u2019t fly a kite for Puerto Rican independence and look what they think. And it is simply not true. And I\u2019m going to make a point of\u2026 I\u2019m going to try to get hold of Habib. He did mention that he had put up his request for lots of things. I said that I was glad to hear it, and what did he think would come out of it? And he said he didn\u2019t think that balance of payments, you know, cash flow on the loan, but some other form of assistance. He said they would probably put a package together. Then he talked about the state of the economy, what I thought, and what he thought. I didn\u2019t even know that he had seen the chief. I don\u2019t remember what day I saw him, on Tuesday or something. They can\u2019t have it both ways. They are saying that a lot of the Senators in Congress want to ensure that the US system of economic assistance doesn\u2019t go to line the pockets of [the] elite of developing countries, on the other hand when you set out to create a society, they say the elite no longer exists and they say it is socialist or communist. That\u2019s a fairly thin point. I\u2019m very excited about the prospects of Habib coming and I know he\u2019ll have a good visit. This is all very tentative and you mustn\u2019t repeat it because only you and the chief know. He said that he would leave Washington about a week before the Grenada meeting of the OAS which begins in the second week, so we are really talking about a couple of weeks. As soon as I get back to Washington, I\u2019ll try to get in touch with him and find out from him what\u2019s happening. You don\u2019t plan to go there, of course, to Grenada. He is going to be there and so is Vance [US Secretary of State Cyrus Vance]. I think the meeting is definitely to happen.<\/p>\n

—–<\/p>\n

D-2-a-6c<\/p>\n

Page 3<\/p>\n

(Other talk about foreign affairs.) I mean if the chief changes his mind that is his entitlement, but that doesn\u2019t mean we can\u2019t get an account. What are the chief\u2019s plans, to bring them here, definitely? Long discussion continues on foreign affairs. He suggested to Minister Wills go back to the Prime Minister and straighten out the importance of the Brussels mission needing an Ambassador.<\/p>\n

CONVERSATION #2<\/a><\/p>\n

You think things have gone three cents free here. I remember the days when Burnham used to say, \u201cHis aim was to give every poor man a car.\u201d He said, \u201cTax big cars or a big Dodge like mine. Little cars like an Austin should be tax-free or duty cut, you know a car is a necessity or a reasonable social ambition in a country where you don\u2019t have this and that\u2026 Where you can take the family for a drive.\u201d Which was nice talk, or a nice idea. Now look what little 4-cylinder car costs, $23,000 for a Gallant or thing. They ain\u2019t got no clerk who can buy that\u2019s for sure. A lot of rich people won\u2019t buy it either and that you can\u2019t get any at all. Unfortunately, men are judged on their performance, not their words. Socialist theories are very nice, but they\u2019ve got to work. They apply to people. Nobody is satisfied that they are on the road to socialism if one day they can see ahead of the road is hunger, cars going up more, their expectation to own a car vanishes. Houses are out of sight. A theory has got to work in practice. Good intentions are not enough, Paula, nobody is going to fault the Prime Minister or Dr. Reid [Ptolemy Reid, Deputy Prime Minister of Guyana], for their good intentions to help the poor man, but you can\u2019t just have a good intention and see the means of achievement are going wrong and you just remain with the good intentions. You\u2019re mad! You can\u2019t get the food to eat, the next thing we ration is clothing, including footwear. Look at the price of electricity for your house. Petrol you can\u2019t get, that is the oil crisis, the subsidy had to come off flour, different things. Something is wrong with planning. When things get hard, the harder things get, the more elitist society becomes, because a plutocracy, a rich class, Neil, Rex, Joe Chin, who will never suffer, they get richer,<\/p>\n

—–<\/p>\n

D-2-a-6d<\/p>\n

Page 4<\/p>\n

They can travel when they like, they can do what they like, and the scarcity only the rich can afford. ME [Paula Adams]: \u201cThey don\u2019t travel much anymore, they don\u2019t have any dollars to get out of the country.\u201d BM\u2019s reply: \u201cWho says so? What\u2019s wrong with you? You mad or something? That\u2019s only what you think.\u201d Then after the wealthy, the politically powerful. They are out scotching the house when poor people and other people can\u2019t get. They\u2019ll always have things and clothing in their house when other people can\u2019t have [it], and they will justify it on the grounds that they are working for the people and they should have it if they need something.<\/p>\n

CONVERSATION #3<\/a><\/p>\n

Did you go to the Prime Minister\u2019s May Day speech? (BM is asking me this question) He said that he heard there was a lot of booing. I asked, \u201cWhy?\u201d He said, \u201cBecause people are out of work, the cost of living is very high.\u201d<\/p>\n

I said to BM, \u201cIt sounds like you\u2019re ready to come home.\u201d BM\u2019s reply, that the only position I could come home as is Prime Minister.\u201d \u201cI was to be prime minister, first among equals.\u201d<\/p>\n

CONVERSATION #4<\/a><\/p>\n

Joe said they got a game. It\u2019s a nice form of relaxation.<\/p>\n

I said, \u201cIt is a very funny form of relaxation for a socialist.\u201d<\/p>\n

He said, \u201cI don\u2019t understand what my playing poker has to do with being a socialist. I\u2019m not trying to rob anybody, just playing a game. You find the stakes large, you could easily play poker for pennies. It\u2019s just that I don\u2019t know how to play poker for pennies. If that is the limit that you can afford. Anybody can afford to stick around for 20 cents, that ain\u2019t anything. How much you going to lose, $20? That ain\u2019t anything.\u201d<\/p>\n

I said, \u201cTwenty dollars, to me, is a lot of money.\u201d<\/p>\n

He said, \u201cLast night they had bets for a thousand dollars. The best one I<\/p>\n

—–<\/p>\n

D-2-a-6e<\/p>\n

Page 5<\/p>\n

made was for $850.<\/p>\n

I said, \u201cI don\u2019t understand how you can afford to play. Does the Prime Minister know you play poker?\u201d<\/p>\n

He said, \u201cYes.\u201d \u201cI can afford this game easily. I ain\u2019t a poor man. I never have been and probably never will be. There was a time when people played less poker here when there was more to do. Now what you going to do. There isn\u2019t very much activity. People don\u2019t invest in houses, not much building. Businesses aren\u2019t much. Except you put your money in a bank there isn\u2019t anything for people to do like they used to: excursions, travel are not easy. The human system must find some way of relaxing itself and one way is for \u201cpeople of means\u201d to play poker, or something else. Whatever it is, I find poker to be a pretty harmless form of relaxation as long as you can afford it. You sit for hours with big men, you\u2019re out of everybody\u2019s way, out of danger of accidents and gossip.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cIf you don\u2019t think your appearance is important to your job, I told you one year ago that in this country your appearance is important. You don\u2019t see how Rai dresses? When I go to the Town Hall. From the time I go in there, they know it\u2019s \u201csomebody,\u201d the way I look, the way I dress, I don\u2019t look like the next man coming off the street. The same with Rai, when she goes to the Corentyne, she doesn\u2019t look like any coolie girl coming to the Corentyne, the way she dresses, the way she looks. And that\u2019s important in a country like this.\u201d<\/p>\n

I said, \u201cLooks, appearance, everything is appearance.\u201d<\/p>\n

He said, \u201cWell, it\u2019s important.\u201d<\/p>\n

I said, \u201cIt\u2019s important to you.\u201d<\/p>\n

He said, \u201cYou know in the country, I don\u2019t go around the country looking like a Jesus freak as a government ambassador.\u201d<\/p>\n

I said, \u201cI don\u2019t think there is one thing socialist about you.\u201d<\/p>\n

He said, \u201cThe socialist revolution? You think that I was going to punish, that I\u2019m going to go around walking around the street like Saul.?\u201d<\/p>\n

I said, \u201cYou told me yourself but that was nothing but eating money. You were talking<\/p>\n

—–<\/p>\n

D-2-a-6f<\/p>\n

Page 6<\/p>\n

about $2,000 to $3,000 dollars and you said yourself that that was nothing but eating money.\u201d<\/p>\n

He said, \u201cWhat else can $2000 buy. I\u2019m not poor, I sit around playing poker. What else [is] $2000 going to bring? You can open a business with that? Or take off with that? I spend that much in a month.\u201d<\/p>\n

I said, \u201cYou may spend more than not in a month, but a lot of people don\u2019t see more than that in a year.\u201d<\/p>\n

CONVERSATION #5<\/a><\/p>\n

When the Prime Minister said, \u201cThe girl from Peoples Temple.\u201d What did you say? (This was my question to BM.)<\/p>\n

He said, \u201cI didn\u2019t say anything. I was thrown a little bit. I don\u2019t remember. We were walking toward the car. I must have said something like, \u201cOh, how do you know?\u201d He said (the PM.), \u201cNothing escapes your Father\u2019s attention, son.\u201d<\/p>\n

I said, \u201cWhat do you think he will think me being from the states?\u201d<\/p>\n

He said, \u201cWhat should I do, write him a letter asking his permission?\u201d \u201cI stopped thinking about that past detail about [what] Georgetown society thinks. They have no further shocks to receive from me. I\u2019ve done everything. I\u2019ve been brilliant, I\u2019ve been unconventional, I\u2019ve been witty, I\u2019ve been maudlin. I\u2019ve done it all. I\u2019ve broken up marriages, I\u2019ve done the lot. There are no further shocks. I\u2019ve shown I\u2019m very good, I\u2019m ultra sophisticated, ultra intelligence, ultra wealth, I\u2019ve done the lot. There\u2019s nothing left. There\u2019s nothing left to shock people.\u201d<\/p>\n

I said, \u201cI would think there would be some concern about your girlfriend being from the US.\u201d<\/p>\n

[Tape 5, Side 1] He said, \u201cA third party is not going to run my life. Two parties, that\u2019s an agreement. I don\u2019t want to hear \u2018what people say\u2019 or \u2018what people think\u2019.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cI said, \u201cWith an egalitarian consciousness, what kind of a statement is that?\u201d
\n—–<\/p>\n

D-2-a-6g<\/p>\n

Page 7<\/p>\n

BM said, \u201cI\u2019m just telling you what it\u2019s like. I\u2019m just telling you why don\u2019t these women marry Black men who can\u2019t afford to support them.<\/p>\n

CONVERSATION #6<\/a><\/p>\n

I said, \u201cHe seems fairly capable.\u201d<\/p>\n

BM said, \u201cWho?\u201d
\nI said, \u201cCorbin.\u201d [Robert Corbin, Minister of State for the Ministry of National Development]
\nBM laughed to himself, and said, \u201cAt doing what? Capable of doing what?\u201d
\nI said, \u201cOrganizing, enthusiasm.\u201d
\nBM said, \u201cYes, for what?\u201d
\nI said, \u201cI often think that loyalty is far more important than skills.\u201d
\nBM said, \u201cThe problem with most developing countries. They put the emphasis on the wrong things.\u201d<\/p>\n

—–<\/p>\n

Pages D-2-a-7a \u2013 7d duplicate D-2-a-6a \u2013 6d<\/p>\n

—–<\/p>\n

D-2-A-8A<\/p>\n

[handwritten notation] Submitted to Dr. Reid June 21, 1977<\/p>\n

Conversation #1<\/p>\n

June 15, 1977<\/p>\n

Mr. X asked me to take these notes for him. I did not know at the time what relevance the notes possessed. Later I was to discover from conversations that these notes pertain to the discussion to be held with Philip Habib, U.S. Under-secretary of State.<\/p>\n

    \n
  1. Intra Party Scenario<\/li>\n
  2. Inter Party Scenario<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    III. Philosophy and R\/EV Strategy-U.S. of A.<\/p>\n

      \n
    1. Caricom-Guyana\u2019s role:<\/li>\n
    2. Historical<\/li>\n
    3. Present<\/li>\n
    4. Projected<\/li>\n
    5. Non-alignment<\/li>\n
    6. 1. Present<\/li>\n
    7. Projected<\/li>\n
    8. Role of U.S. of A.<\/li>\n
    9. Economy-serious but manageable, external finances needed, sources important to future policy, manageable once external finance received<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

      VII. General International Affairs-<\/p>\n

        \n
      1. South Africa<\/li>\n
      2. Korea<\/li>\n
      3. Puerto Rico<\/li>\n
      4. Ethiopia<\/li>\n
      5. Somalia<\/li>\n
      6. USSR\/Cuba\/China\/Mideast\/U.N.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

        VIII. Human Rights \u2013 press freedom, Nielsen ratings, ownership of media, political, economic & cultural rights, magna carta rights of bourgeoisie, political prisoners,<\/p>\n

        —–<\/p>\n

        D-2-A-8b<\/p>\n

        Page 2<\/p>\n

        Mirror<\/u>, post of Leader of the Opposition, facilities therefore, consultations therewith, in train presently. Post Vance\/Hussain.<\/p>\n

          \n
        1. Creole Sayings<\/li>\n
        2. Sugar \u2013 Gavin<\/li>\n
        3. Other economy discussions \u2013 other relevant ministers<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

          XII. NUJ\/MPO Rights of privileged white minorities in U.K.<\/p>\n

          Conversation #2<\/p>\n

          This is a conversation Mr. X had over the telephone with the Prime Minister while I was present. \u201cThe P.M., please.\u201d \u201cHi comrade, I\u2019m just calling to tell you about something you wanted me to remind you about, the newsletter. It will cost us one thousand American a month we are talking about 6 months of continuous publication or we\u2019re talking about G$15,000. That\u2019s one. Secondly, you might wonder is that\u2026Dr. Reid or Corbin, so that they don\u2019t think we are stalling or malingering; the question of Vic Persaud that I raised with you last night, if he agrees, that\u2019s it. What about the name, last night you told me about the name and I told you Leon Dundas. Do you want me to find out sort of obliquely?\u201d<\/p>\n

          Conversation #3<\/p>\n

          Mr. X repeatedly makes criticisms about living conditions in Guyana. He has made bitter complaints about the low water pressure and the electricity being cut off occasionally and the shortage of certain foodstuff. He said, \u201cWe don\u2019t get water; no electricity after twelve. The only thing we haven\u2019t been visited with yet is bubonic plague.\u201d Identifying with a certain amount of personal sacrifices for the well-being of many should be a requirement of any socialist leader, but I have never gotten this impression from Mr. X. He is preoccupied with money and the comforts he feels are reasonable expectations such as \u201ca big expensive and fairly exclusive airconditioned sedan and a sportscar.\u201d We talked about the difficulty Mr. X would<\/p>\n

          —–<\/p>\n

          D-2-A-8c<\/p>\n

          Page 3<\/p>\n

          have in returning to Guyana to live with his predisposition for comfort. I asked him how he would adjust. He said, \u201cWith a sense of privation.\u201d<\/p>\n

          —–<\/p>\n

          \n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

          [Editor’s note:\u00a0There are several codes in this document. Mary Ruth is Paula Adams, Mr. Hill is Jim Jones, and Mr. X is Guyana’s ambassador to the US, Laurence “Bunny” Mann, with whom Paula Adams had a long-term relationship. The initials “BM” also refer to Mann.] D-2-A-5 Note from Paula Adams to Jim Jones about documented […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":88241,"menu_order":10,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-133516","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/133516","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=133516"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/133516\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":133521,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/133516\/revisions\/133521"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/88241"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=133516"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}