Tape of Lynetta Jones with Tish Leroy<\/p>\n
Taped probably sometime in end of Nov. or December, 1977\u2026<\/p>\n
(As we were ending a conversation about the lands of Guyana and our own agricultural project \u2013 I saw she was drifting back as she sometimes did, and so I flipped on the tape recorder at this spot in our conversation.)<\/p>\n
Lynetta:<\/strong> It was south of Rio\u2026 they just simply lit out like they did going across the plains. They just lit out and went to Brazil (talking about the first settlers of Brazil that farmed the country). They lopped a piece of jungle and (took) what else was granted by that government at the time, which was rocky enough\u2026 and they practically fed the nation of Brazil with their agricultural efforts. There was a period when they did. They never departed or went back to the states\u2026 they went there after the Civil War. They wouldn\u2019t conform to any surrender. They just pulled out their families.<\/p>\n That just came out on the tip of my tongue, about that agricultural district there. It\u2019s a city, S\u00e3o Paulo. In that neighborhood, and it is probably the most prosperous city in Rio [Brazil] itself. And it ran a\u2013 and all of a sudden their jungles go dry as a desert because they didn\u2019t put back in the soil as they took out. They thought you could do it year after year, but you cannot do that.<\/p>\n If we make a mistake, we\u2019ll end up on the rocks too. But I understand they are not, but they are studying the compost, and somebody\u2019s making the compost.<\/p>\n (Part of tape, briefly, is not distinguishable\u2026 then she picks up again \u2013 about Jimmy Jr. She realized she had not given me a story about him, and wanted to recall something for Jimmy\u2026 she loved all of the children very much and was concerned to try to get something down for them\u2026 and she used to say that: \u201cfor\u201d them, realizing that one day they would look to her words. However, she never quite got them all down, but she always expressed her love for them all equally\u2026)<\/p>\n He (speaking of Jim Jones, her son \u2013 taking little Jimmy Junior, his adopted son, up to a resort area) took him up to Sugar Loaf. You heard of Sugar Loaf Mountain? It\u2019s built like a loaf of bread. Had up there recreation for children\u2026 slides, and all that sort of thing. It\u2019s a hard cadaver in the first place, and you can imagine, up there on that slide how much higher it looked to a little wee one. Well, he\u2019s a hesitatin\u2019 on takin\u2019 off, because he\u2019s be takin\u2019 off right toward the big drop, you know\u2026 but no danger of reaching that far out. He must have been 3 \u00bd or 4. (Time lapse on tape) And from where he was perched it was looking more gruesome all the time and everything, and father\u2026 like all other proud fathers (Jim Jones, her son) was saying, \u201cGo ahead, kid. Everybody else is jumping: everybody else\u2019s sliding down; it\u2019s real fun. You\u2019re a big man now, son,\u201d he said (to Jimmy Jr.). He turned around (Jimmy did) and he said, \u201cDad, I not a man\u2026 I a little boy.\u201d<\/p>\n Leroy:<\/strong> Did he finally go down?<\/p>\n Lynetta:<\/strong> Yeah he went\u2026 Of course, he (Jim Sr.) could talk him out of his eye teeth. Big Jim would talk you out of your eye teeth, you know. He said that statement, he brought it over (put it across) two or three times: he\u2019d try (Big Jim would) to make the challenge, you know, but he (little Jim) wouldn\u2019t take the slide, then he would\u2013 at that time, he just turned around and said, \u201cDad, I not a man\u2026 I a little boy.\u201d<\/p>\n Leroy:<\/strong> I\u2019ll bet Jimmy was a cute little kid.<\/p>\n Lynetta:<\/strong> Yeah, he was. I used to get so mad at him. He aggravated me worse than any of them. (fondly) He\u2019s a dear, though he tries something foxy just to get caught at it (at this point she was chuckling in recollection). Nothing else. He was just a chivester (?). God, he\u2019ll have some well peppered tapes if I keep on saying bad words. (Conversation between us talking about the cussing)<\/p>\n (Talking about JJ\u2019s concern for little Jimmy in the rearing of him) To see that he never got it in his head that he was discriminated against, and in the doing of it, I think he condoned perhaps more than he should have.<\/p>\n Then another cute thing he did (reference to Jimmy Jr.). One time I was holding him and he run his hand over my arm and he said\u2026 and then he ran his hand over his\u2026 he said, \u201cYour hand is not like mine.\u201d He said it kind of sad. I said, \u201cWell, the only difference I see is a viewers is more beautiful\u2026 and nice and tall like that\u2026 mine are shaping up to a bunch of wrinkles, and they\u2019re old\u2026\u201d and I went ahead to discourse upon the subject.<\/p>\n And he said, \u201cDid I have a brown mommy?\u201d<\/p>\n I said, \u201cYes, but you was fortunate among boys, you had a brown mommy but a white mommy also, later on, evidently who love to somewhat better, because she\u2019s going to stick around for a while. It seems to me like\u2013 and I don\u2019t know what the circumstances might have been with this other mommy, but anyway\u2013 it turned out to your advantage,\u201d I told him, so that was the subject matter we discussed about his race.<\/p>\n And then Marcy had a cute song she sang about his cradle song.<\/p>\n Leroy:<\/strong> \u201cMy Little Black Baby.\u201d<\/p>\n Lynetta:<\/strong> I\u2019ll be doggoned. She made it up from scratch, I guess. Brown baby, wasn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n Leroy:<\/strong> Black baby on the recording.<\/p>\n Lynetta:<\/strong> Well, that was after his cradle song, and he couldn\u2019t hardly have found any fault with his makeup or his coloring or anything of the kind when she sprang that one on him, because it was really beautiful.<\/p>\n I think the other boys figured they was slighted for not being a brown baby. I know I\u2019ve heard them sometimes remark to that effect, when they were smaller.<\/p>\n When I was a top authority in Indiana\u2019s women\u2019s prisons, they always like to get you involved \u2013 both sides were like that \u2013 try to get too involved in the raise questions to see what kind of a living goose they could make out of you, I guess, and I was much too danged smooth for them. There was some of them would start into a deep emotional spasmodical\u2013 all the trouble with this race problem. This prisoner who was absolutely prejudiced against the black race. I threw up a hand and boy, I suppose I was the only one that ever did say anything \u2013 (tape not clear) \u2013 rest of them were kind of mealy-mouthed, you know, and I said, \u201cShut your mouth. Goddamit!\u201d I roared. Prejudice is not peculiar to one race. You got as much damn prejudice as any other rest of them. The white race has got it, you\u2019ve got it\u2026 and you both better get rid of it! Boy, that was all I heard about prejudice\u2026<\/p>\n This has nothing to do with the book, but it\u2019s another thing that happened too. I was steeped in adventure up to my neck all the time. In the state, bad gals\u2013 they thought they was really tough, till they had some run-ins and experiences with me, and then that\u2019s the thing that sold them on Mabel. I didn\u2019t skeer for nothing.<\/p>\n And they\u2019d never seen anything that wasn\u2019t skeer of them, you know, and I\u2019d play with them just like they was a bunch of kids, too. I got carried away and never did get my book written that I went there to write.<\/p>\n (An aside on the tape: Lynetta was watching Esther [Mueller]. \u201cNow she\u2019s not saying a word. Esther was reading a typed page.\u201d)<\/p>\n It was really adventurous. Every crying thing they\u2019d think of, I would think a one better. And mainly there was no stupid gal, even if they was prisoners. They had to be sort of keen to stay out such as the time they did, but they was always returning till I went there, and that just about put the cadaver on that, because I\u2019d fix them up with such a desire to want to set the world afire that when they\u2019d go out, they wouldn\u2019t never want to break parole, and there was a scandalous turnover before I went, and for years it was just something they expected. But I didn\u2019t expect them to return.<\/p>\n The first thing, I didn\u2019t know from goofus about the prisons, except what I\u2019d read, except I\u2019d thought that some time in an idle moment, I\u2019d go around and look into it and write something in the book, you know, so I came to the point of where I was ready to do that. But in order to do it, I wanted to be where I\u2019d be in direct handling of prisoners, so that there wasn\u2019t no guards around the edges and all of that. You was there and your wits had to be what took care of your situation, you know.<\/p>\n And so, I was writing away on something else\u2013 I just sit there at the desk and these two gals seemed to be in a heated argument, you know, in the recreation room. I thought, well, when you flatten each other, well, I\u2019ll get up there and see why you did so. And it just kept getting hotter and hotter, you know. Every once in awhile I\u2019d say, you got some slight argument you girls? Well, ask me and I\u2019ll tell you the straight of it \u2013 kidding them \u2013 all you got to do is ask me and I\u2019ll tell you who\u2019s right.<\/p>\n Well, I didn\u2019t anticipate they\u2019d take me up on this, but they did. They come easing up, you know. They said, Mrs. Jones, we want you to answer this for us, \u2018cause we\u2019ve argued for months if not. And I said, \u201cWell, what\u2019s the question?\u201d<\/p>\n They said: is it more of a sin to kill you husband when he\u2019s looking at you that it is to kill him when he\u2019s asleep? Well, I want you to know that for a minute, that was normally, that if I gave it two scoops of thought, that it would have thrown me for a loop. Finally I said: well, he\u2019s no less dead for all of that, is he? Either one of them? Well, that cooked their argument right there. I said, now the way I see it, he\u2019s no less dead for all of that. Neither one of them is.<\/p>\n Leroy:<\/strong> How did you happen to take the prison job?<\/p>\n Lynetta:<\/strong> Well, I just resigned from a job I\u2019d held for 17 years and I thought that 17 years was long enough to work at the same task. That was the corporation. I\u2019d organize their unions when they said it couldn\u2019t be done, and hadn\u2019t been done for years, and they was about the only unorganized, privately owned corporation, I guess, family owned, and my mind just suddenly made up to organize that union. And boy, I mean I did it single-handed \u2013 (tape not clear \u2013 three points or something)\u2026 I did it single-handed, practically. Of all the skeered people, they were skeered. Boy, when they\u2019d see me twist the tiger\u2019s tail, and everything, and when every time I showed there, they\u2019d stand for me like an iron wall. They had a great respect for me, you know, and even if the union spoke a little hostile to me, they get up and file out of a bargaining at contract time, which is the most important time there is. And when they got a mule in from Kentucky one time, he thought he was the top of the pile. He was with the international, you know, in the union, UAW-CIO, and he said, Jones, you\u2019re a damn little Hitler!<\/p>\n They proposed something, and I said, I won\u2019t go for it. He said, you\u2019re only one<\/em>. I said, \u201cToday, I\u2019m forty. I still won\u2019t go for it and you can\u2019t make it through without me,\u201d and I just grinned, you know. And he says, \u201cWhy wouldn\u2019t you?\u201d You know, that\u2019s of course taboo, you know, to ever disagree, you know, in front of your corporate factor. I said because it\u2019s wrong, and you know it\u2019s wrong, and I won\u2019t have it.<\/p>\n Well, they was going to strike. I guess that was the issue itself: they was going to strike, but they wanted to strike only the foundry as they\u2019d done for years, and let that one corporate body be one body with any corporate strain. Blend that suffer and starve, while the others, you know, without unemployment benefits\u2026 and I said, if we strike one, we strike all. That was a blow to the corporation, you know that. They said, this is ridiculous to have them all starving. It ends the strike quicker, I said. You put somebody out there that knows how to get unemployment benefits, and I\u2019m that somebody. They\u2019re not gonna have to starve with me out on the street. And, as it stands now, they\u2019re all gonna pray they do, and I mean, I\u2019m going to have unemployment benefits for all of \u2018em out there, and they don\u2019t belong to the union, or if they do\u2026 it\u2019s all the things difference to me. And under the law, I think it construes as being involved in labor disputes, and that\u2019s all the further you have to go. \u201cOh, it\u2019s ridiculous,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n And I come right back and said, well, I\u2019ll never vote for it. And he said, Jones he said, you\u2019re a dog damned little Hitler\u2026 and when he said that, the company sprung up, the company did, and mind, there was three plants represented there, you know. Many men on each plant bargaining crew. They raised up and filed out. Old Bill says, where the hell do you think you\u2019re going? He said\u2013 they was educated people, you know, and he was a hillbilly (chuckling)\u2026<\/p>\n Let us know, he said (apparently referring to the spokesperson), let us know when you get ready to speak respectfully to \u201cour\u201d Mrs. Jones, and we will return to the bargaining table.<\/p>\n They offered me every job they had in the area, from public relations to\u2013 they was really briefing me with elections, you know.<\/p>\n Leroy:<\/strong> They wanted to out of the union, out of their hair.<\/p>\n Lynetta:<\/strong> They wanted me out of the union and furthermore they do anything, any damn thing they could for me.<\/p>\n Leroy:<\/strong> Did you elect the prison position yourself, or did they offer it to you?<\/p>\n Lynetta:<\/strong> Well, this had nothing to do with this outfit that I have worked for for 17 years. It was\u2013 the only connection that we had with a prison was that the outgoing custodial authority was\u2013 had been a congressman and then, being on the wrong side of the political fence to what I was\u2026 and Jim and her were acquainted. But I don\u2019t recall for the life of me whether it had anything more to do with them just an introduction between us whether he did anymore for her\u2026 not normally\u2013 we did not. We stood on our own merits, both of us, and\u2026 so I don\u2019t know but anyway that was a shock to the whole collection of society when I went in there to write, but the gals in their didn\u2019t even keep me (unintelligible) and all this, and then boy\u2013<\/p>\n Whenever I\u2019m having a tilt with them, I\u2019d just out-tough them, you know, and they thought that was keen, the gals did, but the old woman that had been piddling along with it for years, why, acting as officers you know, because I hollered and fired the officers, you know, they thought that was\u2013 had to be done by routine, but it didn\u2019t. This whole outfit finally had\u2013 on the outside of the city was correctional institution. And I said, told them to take it down, and I tell you, they\u2019d burn down that thing on an average of once a month, and then they hauled them into me at all hours of the night. They\u2019d come in just barreled up and madder than a hornet.<\/p>\n I didn\u2019t say anything. I just received them, signed in, you know.<\/p>\n She said (referring to one of the prisoners brought in), \u201cYou\u2019ll find out what tough is.\u201d<\/p>\n I said, well, they\u2019ll issue a diploma when I get through educating them and that\u2026 but they generally get theirs with the hot places when I get through with them. And I just laughed in their faces. She was mean, she was mean as she could be. But I said in the meantime, \u201cGo to sleep. In the future we can solve this because it is now midnight and I wouldn\u2019t mind sleep. How about you?\u201d Well, she\u2019d like to, and that no matter what they wanted\u2013 shoot their mouths off\u2013 about, well I was always there with more, you know, and seemed like the answers just came out of the\u2013 in the palm of my hand, you know, as if they were written there all the way.<\/p>\n Leroy:<\/strong> Did Jim come out to do a service as chaplain of the prison?<\/p>\n Lynetta:<\/strong> Um-hmm [Yes.]<\/p>\n Leroy:<\/strong> Did he do that regularly or just one time he came out?<\/p>\n Lynetta:<\/strong> Well, he was going to do it regular and I talked him out of it. I said no, they will try to criticize you for what I do, and try to cross you up with what I do, and aggravate the life out of both of us, so what the hell, we never did work together. We generally work separately, because I talked him out of it, because I could tell as soon as I hit the deck, you know, that some of them would like to do us both in. One year\u2019s time I was at the head of it, you know, of the custodial position, and everything inside the fence, and they had a head up there at the correctional institution that thought she had it right on to the facts, that she was on an in moreso than I was with the politicians, and I hadn\u2019t bothered to be in with them, and I never did. But I just stood my ground on every damned issue and I never did have anybody in my corner particularly, but I\u2019d go into the union rooms in the courts and anywhere else, and without a lawyer or anything else, and I never lost anything out of it.<\/p>\n Tape ends around #480. The broadcast over which the tape was recorded continues on \u2013 was a KGO tape. I have been auditing a program for Sandy in SF. 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