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\nCollect call from Tim Clancey to N.E. [National Enquirer] reporter Gordon Lindsay<\/p>\n
Lindsay:<\/strong> Hello, Tim, Gordon Lindsay.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Yes, How are you?<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> I\u2019m very well indeed, thank you.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> I was returning your call.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> I know that you are not supposed to talk to me, which I find very strange, but I have a yellow piece of paper that was put out by the Peoples Temple in San Francisco on May 10, 1978. I\u2019ve been trying to get ahold of Dr. Moore today and having no success there, so that is about the end of my\u2013 I mean I\u2019ve been trying to track him down all over the country.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> He is out of town right now.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Yeah, he is in Asilomar. And point number sixteen \u2013 this is comments about Jonestown Guyana from on-site visits \u2013 number sixteen says: \u201cA writer from one of the largest news agencies in the world, quote, \u2018It\u2019s very very impressive. Thank you for this opportunity, and best wishes.\u2019\u201d Now, unfortunately, you don\u2019t quote the name of the reporter.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> No, we did not.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> You don\u2019t know who it is?<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, no, I don\u2019t.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> I checked the largest news agencies in the world. One the Associated Press, whom I happen to know the general manager very well, and he said that no one from the AP has been down there. So I checked UPI whom I happen to know Bob Andrews over there, and he said that maybe one from that news agency has been to Jonestown, so I checked Reuters, being British, I know Reuters very well, and no one from Reuters has been down there, and so I checked AFT (French press agency) and they say no one has been down there. Now that takes care of all the large news agencies in the world.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t know the name of the person. I know\u2013 I\u2019m sure that the quote is quite valid. I was going to get around to calling you\u2013 It\u2019s kind of a surprise that you called this morning.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Well, not at all, I am trying to do a story.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> I understand, I understand. We had heard\u2013 we had a couple of questions.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Surely.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Basically for one thing we have heard from various people around town that Mr. Tim Stoen had contacted, that your article was going to be out this week. It was going to be a smear on the Temple, and that people should read it, and we were a little concerned that you called yesterday and expressed some interest in talking to various people who had been there\u2013 I understand that were not members of the Temple who had been there and back would be interested in speaking to you about their feelings and opinions of the project.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Peoples Temple people would.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, Peoples Temple people would of course, I mean there are people that have been there and would be more than happy to express their feelings, but from what I understand, you wanted people who not necessarily were members but were rather in a little more objective position to speak to you about it.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> That\u2019s right, because I think\u2013 I mean I\u2019ve applied, God knows how many times, to go down to speak to Jim Jones without any success and then I get word from the lieutenant governor\u2019s office \u2013 Dymally \u2013 saying that I have to have permission from the Guyanese government to go to Jonestown, and that is quite honestly \u2013 I hope you put it on tape \u2013 is a pack of lies.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well\u2013<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Because the Guyanese government gave me full permission while I was down there . The chap\u2019s name is Hutton Archer. And I understand that Dymally was on the shortwave radio to Jonestown about that particular thing.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t know\u2013<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Well, I know you do, Tim, because you are on the radio as well (over Tim\u2019s further explanation).<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know where you are getting your information but\u2013<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ve got tapes of it.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Oh, I see. Well, as a result of the airplane incident, I mean, they have some serious reservations about letting you in the country. We\u2019ve been talking to them of course about the possibility of you\u2019re\u2013<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> The plane incident. As reporter, when I am told to go after a story and people reject my advantage to go down there and do a decent job of reporting, I normally make every effort to find out what is going on, and one of the things is to find out what this place Jonestown looks like. [Illegible handwritten word] I know exactly what it looks like.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Oh, understandable, but also you can understand the concern of the country when you violate their airspace.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> There is no violation of airspace. You\u2019re allowed to fly over.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, I mean, that may be your opinion, but I think that they feel otherwise. I am certain there are some reservations in the ministries about this.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> If you were in my position, wouldn\u2019t you think that someone was putting up a brick wall between me and Jim Jones?<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> No, not at all.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Why wouldn\u2019t he allow me to go down there when I hadn\u2019t done anything at all except ask permission to go down?<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, Mr. Lindsay, you never approached the Temple about going down there before you\u2013<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Well, my point is, you know, the Temple, as far as I\u2019m concerned, is based in Jonestown. That\u2019s where\u2013 How many people are down there?<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> There are quite a few people there.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Well\u2013<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Let me say this. If you are considering doing both sides of the story, which I really have no idea what you plan on doing with your article, but if you had\u2013 were considering doing both sides of the story, we are interested in seeing that you get down there to talk to Reverend Jones.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> It\u2019s been seven weeks now.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, as I explained, there are going to be problems to overcome the feelings that some people have about airplanes, and it\u2019s going to take time\u2013<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> But let\u2019s go back to the earlier\u2013 what I said earlier. When I was down there, in Georgetown, I asked Hutton Archer at the ministry of information if I could go to Jonestown, and I have a witness, my partner, sitting right there with me, and Hutton Archer said there\u2013 he saw no reason why we could not because we were not in there to do a political story. And then he called someone at the Peoples Temple in Georgetown itself.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Who is this gentleman?<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Hutton Archer, I think his actual title is Deputy Minister of Information, and he said, as we were not in there to do any political story, we had no ax to grind whatsoever, and we had no response from the Peoples Temple. I was sitting there\u2013 I mean, you do admit that the Peoples Temple is in Jonestown, don\u2019t you? (Chuckling)<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Indeed.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> And how many people are down there? So we can get that straight.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m not sure exactly.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> It\u2019s over a thousand, right?<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, you can get the details like that from Charles [Garry].<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> You know, I\u2019ve been trying to get ahold of Garry for four days.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, he\u2019s right in the middle of a murder trial and he\u2019s presenting his side of the case. And it\u2019s going to close this week.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> I understand, but my deadline will have long passed by then.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, if you\u2019re interested in doing both sides of the stories, then something can be worked out. I mean \u2013 the Moores \u2013 you have their number, I take it. I mean I have it here, but I guess you probably already have it.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> What\u2019s, Moore\u2019s number?<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Well, he\u2019s in a place called Asilomar at the moment which is in Monterey, and I\u2019ve left a message there, but I can do no more.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Right, well, he should be back tomorrow or the next day.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> That\u2019s my deadline\u2019s over.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Your deadline\u2019s over by then?<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Yeah, I\u2019ll be happy to follow up the story and do anything else I can, but I\u2019ve given Peoples Temple more than enough time. I\u2019ve given them six weeks now.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> We thought your deadline was the 28th.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Why would you possibly think that?<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> That\u2019s what we have heard from various people.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> The 28th of this month?<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Good God, no. It was supposed to be a week ago, but we got an extension on it to see if Peoples Temple would be a little more cooperative.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, we are willing to cooperate. If it takes time to work out getting you into the country like that\u2013 We don\u2019t have that much say with the government. They are going to do what [they want] to do.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> It took me 24 hours to get down there and into the country.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> That was when you first went down there [illegible handwritten word], Mr. Lindsay.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Huh? <\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> I say, that was when you first went down there. That was before you also flew over the project. And that caused a little bit of concern with the people there. And that is going to take some time and effort to go around.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> What concern could I possibly cause?<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, you did. That\u2019s\u2013<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> From what ministry?<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Huh?<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> From what ministry? I will make representations from my government down there.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t know which ministry. I know our people\u2013<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Well, you find out.<\/p>\n (Both talking)<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> If you\u2019ll find out which minister, and which ministry, I will be happy to get the High Commissioner of the British government to look into the matter for me, and I will also have someone from the American government, as I\u2019m working for an American newspaper, to look into the matter for me to, because we can move a lot faster than most people can.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, if you\u2019re planning on doing like two separate articles, one presenting one point of view and another one later, presenting\u2013 looking at the other point of view, then I don\u2019t think that we would be interested [illegible handwritten word] in any type of cooperation. But if the story is going to be objective and it\u2019s going to present both sides, of the story, then we will do our best to cooperate with you.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Four weeks ago\u2013 Look, look, let me quote you something. I got all this garbage in front of me. One, I\u2019ve been accused of causing a cardiac arrest of a woman. I\u2019ve got all these things here. Where is the one I would like to quote you? It says here we have not made \u2013 and this came from Charles Garry \u2013 we have not made a single call to him \u2013 that\u2019s me \u2013 or to anyone else in any threatening manner, whatsoever. Until he came into Mr. Garry\u2019s office, we did not even know his name or who he was. Lie. Hutton Archer told Peoples Temple my name and who I work for. How could anyone get an unlisted number for someone whose name or address which we do not know? It is very easy to get an unlisted number \u2013 this strikes me as very peculiar \u2013 if you will take up the challenge of finding out who made and is making these phone calls, find out who informed Hue Fortson about his supposed death threat, we would consider this a test of proof of his sincerity of doing an objective article. Include in his story of who is harassing Peoples Temple and who are the sources of these threats, and they expect me to find out who is making phone calls? Now that\u2019s impossible, even the telephone company takes 5 or 10 minutes to put a trace on a phone call.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, Mr. Lindsay\u2013<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> I\u2019ll read you what it says here (?) [Notation in original]. We will take any lie detector test, truth serum, voice print or whatever is required to prove to him we are not the source or any way responsible.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> That\u2019s true. <\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> I find that going overboard. Well, my goodness, I don\u2019t want you chaps\u2013 If you\u2019re telling the truth, I\u2019ll accept it.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019re just trying to make a point. And we are very serious, and\u2013<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> All your points seem to be very overboard, they seem to go to the extreme.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Probably because we haven\u2019t gotten representation that we\u2019ve\u2013<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> I talked to Charles Garry four weeks ago that I was quite happy to go down there to do an objective story, and I think, you know, it seems that what is known in terms of the runaround, getting nowhere\u2013 I\u2019m wasting a tremendous amount of money making phone calls getting nowhere.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> I mentioned to [you] the problem of why we are having troubles getting you in now, and you told me about you had gone there and the government had said you could get in, but the situation is different now, because there is also another possibility, too, that there is a freelance journalist and author who is going to be going to the project. All the paperwork and everything has been arranged, and he is going to be going there very soon to do a story. It will be a longer type of thing. He has done stories for your paper before. We\u2019ve talked to him, and he said that he would be willing to do something shorter and give your paper the exclusive story on that.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> What\u2019s his name?<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> I am not at liberty to give you his name at the moment, I just\u2013<\/p>\n (Both talking)<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> There is nothing secretive\u2013 He works for the National Enquirer?<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, he doesn\u2019t work for the National Enquirer, he\u2019s written for it. He is a freelance author.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> He cannot\u2013 Believe you me, he cannot say that he will give it to the Enquirer. They have to approve it before he even goes down there. I know how the Enquirer works, backwards.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m sure you know far better than I do. I\u2019m just saying that he offered to do that. I\u2019m not saying that they would accept it \u2013 the story \u2013 but he\u2019s planning on going down there, and he\u2019s going to do that.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Now why have we been so secretive about who the reporter is? If he\u2019s a reporter worth his salt, he doesn\u2019t mind giving out his name to anyone.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, your views are\u2013<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> I\u2019ve given my name to everyone. I haven\u2019t tried to keep my secret at all. I mean, that\u2019s the normal reporter. If a reporter is not prepared to give his name out, then he\u2019s not a reporter in my book.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t think he\u2019s actually a reporter, since he\u2019s an author.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> An author.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> He\u2019s done, you know, newspaper feature articles.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> That\u2019s all I do. Newspaper feature articles.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> I understand.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> I do not consider myself an author.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> There must be some difference there\u2013<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> I consider myself a reporter. Feature reporter. If you like to have this gentleman call me, I would be delighted to talk to him.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Okay, I was just saying that there is a lot of people I think you would be interested in talking, but they have a lot of reprehensions [apprehensions] about how they are going to be represented in the press.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Everything I do I tape so they cannot be misquoted. I\u2019ve already told Charles Garry that. I spoke to Charles Garry for two hours on tape.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Is that right? I didn\u2019t realize it was that long.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> In his office.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, a lot of people feel that we are the victims of a conspiracy with regards to the media.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> I think you feel you are victims of a conspiracy.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> I do. I do personally. I think there\u2019s good reason for it. Well, let me\u2013 You\u2019ve mentioned a lot of things.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> You give me the name of the ministry that\u2019s complaining about me going down there, and I will sort it out with the High Commissioner and the American ambassador. We have a lot of power.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> You do personally?<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> No, no, not high, but I am the least\u2013 I am just a reporter. No, no, I have no power, but by power I mean influence in government circles [illegible handwritten word]. Newspapers have to deal in government circles. I mean, I do deal something with the congressmen that I have spoken to about Peoples Temple and with various senators.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> I see.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> And how they feel about it, you\u2013 I\u2019m covering every base that I possibly can. I\u2019ve been in this country for 21 years now, so I think that I know the American scene fairly well.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, you certainly spent enough time here to see it firsthand. Now if you said you\u2019ve past your deadline already, what point is all this discussion? <\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> The point of all this discussion is, let\u2019s get on the stick and let\u2019s maybe talk to Jones by radio. If you can get me down there [in] 24 hours, to Jonestown, then maybe I can hold off the deadline.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> I think that would be impossible. I am fairly sure that that would be impossible. Twenty-four hours is just not enough time.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> In this business, we never say it\u2019s impossible.<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, I won\u2019t say it\u2019s impossible, but it would be highly unlikely.<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> Okay, well, if we don\u2019t hear from you, we would just go ahead with the story, right?<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> Well, if that\u2019s what you are going to do, I don\u2019t see that\u2013<\/p>\n Lindsay:<\/strong> All I can say\u2013 Okay, the thing is that I\u2013<\/p>\n Clancey:<\/strong> We\u2019re interested in working with you. We need the time to work it out.<\/p>\n