{"id":27299,"date":"2013-06-16T00:19:03","date_gmt":"2013-06-16T00:19:03","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/alternativejonestown.com\/?page_id=27299"},"modified":"2023-06-18T11:50:19","modified_gmt":"2023-06-18T18:50:19","slug":"q051","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=27299","title":{"rendered":"Q051 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here.<\/a> Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>, Pt. 2<\/a>).
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Sternly) Now get your ass up here, or you will regret it. (Pause) There\u2019ll be nothing more than a discussion<\/i> with you now, but if there is anything, any delay past that minute, then I\u2019ll do with you what I<\/i> want to do with you. (Pause) What I must<\/i> do to you. (Pause) How many seconds? (Pause) Thirty seconds? You better be on your goddamn feet. Try to play\u2014 play\u2014 have\u2014 have fun. It\u2019s you<\/i> that you\u2019re playing with. And it won\u2019t be a sudden death. You\u2019ll wonder for a loonng time what\u2019s taken place. (Pause) Yes, Joe. (Pause) What do you say? (Pause) Well, if it can\u2019t be you, then don\u2019t worry about it. (Pause) Everybody had a delay there. I\u2019ll give you one more time. (Reprimanding) Anyone that heard such comment, or made it\u2014 (Pause) Okay. The person that hears is as responsible as the one that said, so\u2014 (Pause) (Whispered) Shit. (Normal tone) I tell you\u2014\u00a0I tell you to stay alert and don\u2019t be out unless you\u2019re supposed to be out. (Pause) Stand up and stretch. Now the last time I want to say it. (Pause) I seriously do mean business about it. Now we\u2019ve got firepower here, and that firepower will protect us against our enemies, whoever they are, foreign or domestic. (Pause) Don\u2019t be moving unless you\u2019re supposed to be moving again. You hear me? (Pause) (Short laugh) I would be dissuaded, what capitalist pigs do. (Pause) (Sound of concussion) (Pause) See that? That was a faulty bullet. Did you hear what I said? Don\u2019t\u2014 Capitalism will not be\u2014 it won\u2019t be, ah, dissuaded. I made it work, even though it wouldn\u2019t work the first time. (Pause) Failed to go off. Did you hear\u2014 Did you see me? Who else\u2014 who else would fire a bullet that turns out to be a dud? (Pause) Huh? Who\u2019d fire\u2014 Who\u2019d fire\u2014 shoot off a ca\u2014 a cannon that the first one\u2019s a dud? And I said\u2014 you heard what I said, I don\u2019t know the exact words I said. I said, I won\u2019t\u2014 I won\u2019t be dissuaded by capitalism, or something like that. And I just cocked it and fired it again. Same bullet. \u2018Cause it only holds one. This kind of a device only holds<\/i> one. But it could blow you\u2014 blow a hole in you the size of a bathtub. (Pause) So we are<\/i> in better position we were in the Fillmore.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/b> Right. (Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Sit down. Sit down.<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd too soft.<\/p>\n

Long pause.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/b> I don\u2019t know. I heard\u2014 I heard from somebody, but I\u2019m not sure\u2014 I was walking by or what. But I\u2014 when I\u2014 I just heard\u2014 heard similar words. (Pause) I don\u2019t remember\u2014 I remember the person<\/i>, not what I said, but\u2014 I believe I was walking by. Or I was standing there. I\u2019m not sure.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Where was it? The cottages.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/b> Nnn\u2014 No, I think, um\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Then you\u2019re not the witness to the\u2014<\/p>\n

Man:<\/b> No, no. I\u2019m not the witness, but I heard it when I was walking by. I was standing in one certain spot.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What did you heard?<\/p>\n

Man:<\/b> Um, let me think of the words. (Pause) It was similar\u2014 it was similar words you\u2014 you said, but \u2014<\/p>\n

Jones and man talk over each other.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2014 Security? Put people at arms if they\u2014 if they move out of here any more. (Pause) We got devices that can shoot 150 yards, no\u2014 nothing but a stream of flame. (Quiet, intense) So don\u2019t fuck with us. (Pause) We\u2019re in a war council. When that\u2019s finished, fine. Till we decide our strategy, don\u2019t fuck with us. (Pause) Go ahead.<\/p>\n

Scattered applause. Long silence.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/b> I don\u2019t know if it was by\u2014 close to the cafeteria or not, but\u2014 (Pause) The\u2014<\/p>\n

Male voice:<\/b> Excuse me. Uh, Mary Tschetter? Would you please come to the back? Um, not Mary Tschetter. Mary Weatherspoon, please. (Pause) Mary Weatherspoon. Where is she? (Pause) Wotherspoon, excuse me.<\/p>\n

Voices too low.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/b> (Unintelligible word) if I remember it correct\u2014 right\u2014 but I\u2019m not sure I\u2019ll have all the right, correct words to it. (Pause) If\u2014 if you go to Geo\u2014 go to Geo\u2014 Georgetown\u2014 (Pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> If you go to Georgetown, what, son?<\/p>\n

Man:<\/b> Um\u2014 (Pause)<\/p>\n

Long pause<\/p>\n

Man:<\/b> You will run or\u2014 or hang around for some reason or the other. I\u2019m not sure exactly the correct words he said.<\/p>\n

Long pause<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You think about it, if you will, try to get this story together.<\/p>\n

Long pause<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>Dad, I heard a nurse say something, but I don\u2019t\u2014 I know her first name, but I don\u2019t know her last name.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What\u2019d she say?<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>And uh, we was talking about\u2014 I was asking her if I uh, had all my teeth pulled and had to go to Georgetown, would they send a nurse with<\/i>, and would she go<\/i>. And she just said she\u2014 if she go, she might not get back. So I don\u2019t know what she had reference to. Lois was her first name. I don\u2019t know her last name. (Pause) (Unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

Long pause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Does anybody know anything, uh\u2014 any remark again, I want to ask, (Unintelligible word) any remark (Pause) about Georgetown, I\u2019m going to say it again, child, if you want to keep playing with us. You went to Georgetown, you take a back door and be gone. (Pause) You might<\/i> take one. (Pause) Now I think we all understand now, we\u2019ve giv\u2014 given enough hints, haven\u2019t we?<\/p>\n

Crowd reacts.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Hmm?<\/p>\n

More reaction.<\/p>\n

How many with the uplifted hand think we\u2019ve been given enough hints? (Pause) Okay. (Pause) She didn\u2019t want to say something about it? (Pause)<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/b> (unintelligible) didn\u2019t know we was talking about going to Georgetown, and I asked you, if you would go with me, would you\u2014 you know, if I had to have all my teeth<\/i> pulled out, and would they send a nurse with me, and would you go, and you said, if you go, you don\u2019t know, you might not make it back.<\/p>\n

Another woman: <\/b>Perfect.<\/p>\n

Low conversation.<\/p>\n

Lois:<\/b> I don\u2019t know what I said, but I wouldn\u2019t have said that<\/i>. I mean, I wouldn\u2019t\u2014 I\u2014 I think I might have said that uh, I\u2019d don\u2019t think they\u2019d let me uh, go with you. That\u2019s what I said<\/i> to you.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/b> (voice cuts in abruptly) \u2014go with you, you might not make it back. I heard it clearly.<\/p>\n

Lois:<\/b> Now that isn\u2019t so. I mean, I have no\u2014 what would I do? (Pause) Shit. (Pause) I don\u2019t know what you\u2019re hearing, but you didn\u2019t hear me say that. And you insisted on\u2014 you came over again um, the other day and asked about it again. (Pause) (Unintelligible) I\u2014 I don\u2019t really get this\u2014<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/b> I don\u2019t know what you said, but that\u2019s what I heard.<\/p>\n

Lois:<\/b> All right. I mean, I don\u2019t know what you\u2019re saying, really\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Unintelligible) Reverend [Edward] Moore, where did you get the impression that, um\u2014 while she decided what she said (Unintelligible). Ah, Reverend Moore, where did you get the impression that Kay Nelson was going back when she had never\u2014 not uh, even talked<\/i> about it, other<\/i> than in private, if she were to go back on mission from me. How wo\u2014 How would you know that to ask her to send a mel\u2014 rel\u2014 message back to your\u2014 by your\u2014 to your relatives?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Dad, that was just in my mind myself.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> It was in your mind?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Just in my mind myself. I just (unintelligible word) the idea myself. I didn\u2019t get it\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Strange th\u2014 strange thing to say to somebody. No\u2014 Nobody\u2019s ever come yet<\/i> that wanted to go back. Are we back?<\/p>\n

Jack Beam:<\/b> I think we\u2019ve been long enough to know, not to even ask<\/i> anyone to do that kind of thing. Now how long have you been here?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> I been here\u2014<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> One day is too long, to have\u2014 to have\u2014\u00a0to have\u2014 to\u2014<\/p>\n

Low conversation.<\/p>\n

Young female:<\/b> And, um, what I want to know, why in the hell you want to send messages to relatives, \u2018cause you ask me to\u2014 if I write a letter back to the States to ah, ask McElvane to call your relatives. What you want to get in contact with them for?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, I\u2014<\/p>\n

Beam: <\/b>I would like to know what the message was, (unintelligible name\u2014 sounds like “Karen”).<\/p>\n

Another male: <\/b>Uh, he don\u2019t\u2014 he didn\u2019t ask me to give a message as to\u2014 oh yeah, the message was to\u2014 he wanted them to know where he was, and uh, he handed me a paper the first day, and after I reported it, uh, I remember that I didn\u2019t get the paper, so I went back to him and told him maybe I could get it across, and I got the paper from him (Pause) with their address on it and everything.<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Why you want to know\u2014 Why you want them to know where you are?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, I just want to write<\/i> them. I\u2014 and uh\u2014 I ain\u2019t got to heard<\/i> from them \u2018bout two months now, just thought maybe it was all right for me to write them.<\/p>\n

Male in crowd: <\/b>Yeah, but who in the hell are they?<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Okay, that\u2019s fine, you want to write them. Just write them a letter<\/i>. Write them a letter<\/i>. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> The main<\/i> thing, I was wanting to hear from my daughter<\/i>, \u2018cause Dad told me\u2014 when he call me out one night and blessed me, he say he was going to save my daughter<\/i>. I wasn\u2019t concerned<\/i> about nobody but her. (Pause) He told me that he was going to save my daughter, and so I was wanting to hear from her. The main<\/i> thing, I was wanting to hear from her.<\/p>\n

Woman\u2019s voice too soft.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> I told her, I was going to meditate for her, and I just wanted to know how she feel\u2014<\/p>\n

Different voices.<\/p>\n

Male in crowd: <\/b>You got something to say, go to the microphone.<\/p>\n

Young woman:<\/b> Well, if you have a message to send to somebody in the States, all you have to do is write a letter and give it to the right person, and it\u2019ll get there. That\u2019s all you have to do. You don\u2019t have to go around talking to everybody, trying to find out what they\u2019re doing and their business.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>Do you need, do you need, uh, help writing a letter?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, I do, because uh, I\u2019m not really educated enough.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>Well, it\u2019s\u2014\u00a0and you\u2019re\u2014 you\u2019re one among many, many, many of us, so you don\u2019t need to be upset about that, but if you need help writing a letter, it would have been best to say, Would you help me write a letter? Would you\u2014<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Yeah. Yeah. That\u2019s right, mother. I b\u2014 I\u2019ll agree with you.<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Reverend Moore, you\u2019re\u2014 you\u2019re\u2014 even though you\u2019re not educated, you still have a lot of mother wit. And so\u2014 and you\u2019ve heard Dad talk a long time about uh, not doing that kind of thing, to talk to any\u2014 any new person coming in about that kind of thing. And so why did you not raise this question\u2014 you see\u2014\u00a0you see me, you see Lee [Inghram], you see Charlie [Touchette], you see Ava [Inghram], you see a lot of people. You know, uh, Rita Lenin [Rita Tupper]. You know Rhonda. So how come you didn\u2019t approach any of us<\/i> with this, to help you write a letter?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, I should<\/i> have. I wasn\u2019t thinking. I should have, and I\u2019m sorry. I am so sorry I did it. I\u2019m really sorry I did it. Because I don\u2019t\u2014<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>I bet you are, now that you got caught.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> I am\u2014\u00a0I am really sorry. Oh, I wasn\u2019t trying to hide it. I wasn\u2019t trying to hide it, Mother, \u2018cause I wouldn\u2019t\u2014 I wouldn\u2019t\u2014<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Well, why didn\u2019t you give it to Dad, then?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> I wouldn\u2019t\u2014 I\u2014<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Why did you give it to Dad?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, I ought to have been, I just wasn\u2019t thinking<\/i>. I just wasn\u2019t thinking<\/i> right. Because\u2014 I wasn\u2019t\u2014 (Slowly, deliberately) Because I was not putting my family ahead of Dad. Not\u2014 no reason. And I will not do it. Because that\u2019s the first time I ever said anything. I been by, by him \u2018bout four months, and that\u2019s the first thing I ever said anything about.<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Even that\u2019s wrong. Even that\u2019s wrong, because Dad said if there\u2019s anybody here that you want to get here, to let\u2014 to let him know. (Pause) So every\u2014\u00a0so everything you\u2019re coming up with, Brother Moore, it\u2014 it just doesn\u2019t hold\u2014 it doesn\u2019t\u2014 it doesn\u2019t make sense<\/i>. (Pause) You see\u2014 you say you don\u2019t think, but Dad teaches us daily to think for ourselves<\/i>. (Pause) You know, and then you start talking religious. Just how religious are you? (Pause) Once Jim Jones says something, that\u2019s his word.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>I understand the\u2014\u00a0Rita Lenin says you have<\/i> written. So in fact you can<\/i> write letters. (Pause) You were giving me a bunch of (Pause) what.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Yeah. I\u2014 I\u2014 Mother, I\u2019ve written, but I\u2019m not educated enough to write good<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>Well, you don\u2019t have to write good if you get your message across. (Pause) If you\u2019re getting your message across, you\u2019re writing good.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What are they hunting\u2014 what are they hunting for you in the States for?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> They are not hunting for me, Dad.<\/p>\n

Crowd reaction.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Why would I ask you a question like that?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Who do they ask me a question?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Why would I ask you such a question out of the clear blue nothing?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Oh, I\u2014 I<\/i> don\u2019t know what they\u2014 I feel<\/i> like they trying to ah\u2014 I feel like they\u2019re trying to write me, and I just wondering why that I couldn\u2019t get no letters.<\/p>\n

Male in crowd:<\/b> No no no no no no.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> No, I didn\u2019t ask that. I said, why would somebody be hunting for you, in the United States?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Oh. Ah, no reason why, \u2018cause I hadn\u2019t did nothing. (Pause) I hadn\u2019t\u2014 I hadn\u2019t commit no crime. You know\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Or\u2014 or paid all your debts and all that?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, I think ah, one<\/i> debt was like\u2014\u00a0and I turned it to over\u2014 I turned my land over to the church, and trailer, and I put that in, and I don\u2019t know what Kay then paid it off or not. (Pause) I put\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Unintelligible) question, that\u2019s what Kay told me. (Pause) Kay hasn\u2019t told me nothing about the hunting\u2014 hunting\u2014\u00a0nobody hunting for you.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> No, wasn\u2019t\u2014 wasn\u2019t nobody hunting for me, Dad. (Pause) Nope.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Did you have some agreement with the\u2014 your family if they didn\u2019t tell uh, where you were?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> My family ain\u2019t told me\u2014 told nobody<\/i> where I\u2019m at, not as I know, \u2018cause I hadn\u2019t heard from them since I been here.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s not what I said. Did you have any kind of agreement with your family that you not\u2014 they not tell where you were?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Yes. (Pause) I\u2014 (Pause) Well, I\u2014 I been wanting to tell me\u2014\u00a0tell nobody<\/i> where I went<\/i>. Where I come<\/i>. (Pause) Well, I just thought that was ah, all right to tell them \u2018cause I wasn\u2019t dodging<\/i> or nothing. I ain\u2019t\u2014 I ain\u2019t did no crime. No police crime or nothing like that. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Male in crowd: <\/b>(voice fades in) \u2014 come in here? What are you trying to avoid then?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I\u2019m still interested in you say, why of all people would you pick Kay out to, uh, as if she would be going back? Where would you get the possible<\/i> impression she was going back?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, I\u2014 just like I said. (Pause) That\u2019s just my idea myself.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Perception. Just a kind of intuition, huh?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> I don\u2019t know. I guess I just\u2014 I just wondering, was<\/i> she going?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, why didn\u2019t you ask Clara, who came that same night, or 55 other people, or the 80 others who came over the week?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, the reason why I wouldn\u2019t ask Clara because I heard Clara say she was going to stay<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You did.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Said she decided to stay<\/i>. I think that\u2019s\u2014 ain\u2019t that what she said?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I\u2019m sure she said\u2014 (Pause)<\/p>\n

Low voices in crowd.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/b> Yeah. (Unintelligible word) On the day he was leaving in the States, he was making a lot of phone calls on the Temple phone downstairs in the lobby, calling his relatives and telling them where he was going and he didn\u2019t need any money and how good he was going to be living and stuff. And he said that uh, if you got any money, just keep<\/i> it, \u2018cause I\u2019m not going to need it where I\u2019m going. (Pause) I was told that you weren\u2019t supposed to be calling on the phone, talking about these kinds of things, and he was just\u2014 he made about five or six phone calls that morning. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, it was no harm in telling\u2014 telling them that ah, I was\u2014 I was going to be all right where I was going<\/i>. I did<\/i> tell them that. I told them\u2014 my daughter\u2014 she said, let me know if you need any money. Just like I told her. I said, I will not need<\/i> no money. I said, where I\u2019m going, I will be take care, you don\u2019t have to worry about me<\/i>, I got a good pastor love me, and all the members<\/i> love me. Well she said, then, she said, we love you too<\/i>. You didn\u2019t hear. You didn\u2019t hear it, but she said, we love you too. I said, the\u2014 the pastor love me, and all the members<\/i> love me. And I said, you don\u2019t have to worry<\/i> about me. I say, you don\u2019t have to send me no money\u2014 (Pause) Ain\u2019t that what I said? I said, you don\u2019t have to send me no money.<\/p>\n

Male voice in crowd: <\/b>Why\u2019d you do that?<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Okay well, let\u2019s\u2014 let\u2019s\u2014 let\u2019s\u2014 let\u2019s get back to this issue, then we can go on to some more issues. Why did you tell\u2014 ask Kay to do this? Will you explain just one more time for all of us? Then we go on to something else more relevant.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, just like I said. I had in mind, that just come to my mind<\/i>, that I believe that Kay was going back.<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> You\u2019re not a prophet, though, you\u2019re not a prophet, though. So what\u2014 so why did\u2014 why did it come to your mind?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> I really don\u2019t know. I just\u2014 I just\u2014 It just come to my mind. I believe that\u2014<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Wouldn\u2019t it\u2014 wouldn\u2019t it seem to you if you\u2019ve written some letters already \u2014 and that\u2019s the same address that you gave Kay \u2014 that if\u2014\u00a0if your folks didn\u2019t write you back, they didn\u2019t want to hear from you anymore?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, I don\u2019t know. I, ah\u2014 I was\u2014<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> How many letters have you written? Four letters?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Oh, I think I wrote about ah, three or four, something like that. I can\u2019t\u2014 I can\u2019t recall\u2014<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Dad explained to us conspiracy they were going through our mails on both sides, but uh\u2014 at least one of those three or four letters cou\u2014 could have gotten through.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Yeah. Well\u2014<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> So\u2014 so just\u2014 just by that, just by that alone, if one letter got through and they did not contact or bother contact you, and they knew the last place you were was in\u2014 at the Temple, and they didn\u2019t bother contact<\/i> the Temple, they don\u2019t want have anything else to do with you.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, I tell you\u2014<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Would you agree to that\u2014 to that reasoning? If they didn\u2019t contact the last place where you\u2014 where they know \u2014 and they know<\/i> we\u2019re still there. They can\u2019t help<\/i> but know we\u2019re still there \u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (fading in) If they got no mail from you, and you\u2019ve been gone mon\u2014 for months now, uh, they would have gotten hold of the U.S. Embassy, people do that just to do it\u2014 to provoke<\/i> things and to con\u2014 to conspire<\/i> to cause difficulty, just cause trouble. So if anybody was concerned, don\u2019t you think they would\u2019ve uh, contacted you through the State Department, the U.\u2014 the U.S. Embassy or the uh, police or called the Son\u2014 San Francisco Temple about you if they had concern?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Yeah, I\u2014 I believe it, Dad. I believe it. But I\u2019ll be honest and tell you true. (Pause) I will not put my family beheld to you, Dad, in this<\/i> family, because I know it\u2019s not right to do it. I will not do<\/i> that.<\/p>\n

People murmur in audience.<\/p>\n

Another male:<\/b> When you went to Kay and didn\u2019t go through the regular process, you did<\/i> that. Furthermore. You went\u2014 you put yourself and your<\/i> desires ahead of this family<\/i>. And Dad.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Reprimanding) If you\u2019d want to get a message through, you\u2019ve been told<\/i> over and again to contact me<\/i>. The moment she<\/i> came, she told me<\/i>, because we have\u2014 our security\u2019s (unintelligible word) on this. The odds of socialism on our side, and we\u2019ve got a jungle<\/i> out there, we got everything on our side, uh, in terms of uh, resisting an enemy, the equipment to do it, and the mileage to get away<\/i> from them. But um, we\u2019ve been told over and again, over and again, that you\u2019re su\u2014 you\u2019re to clear anything<\/i>, any message you give. You\u2019re not to ask anybody to give a message, or not to receive a message. You\u2019ve heard that over and again. And of course, once you did that\u2014 no dislike for you\u2014 she told me. The principle thing to do<\/i>\u2014 what would have been the principle thing for you to do?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, Dad, since I got to think (unintelligible word), I\u2019d agree with you, and I\u2019m sorry I did it. I\u2019m sorry I did it.<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd:<\/b> Answer the question.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What would have been the principle thing for you<\/i> to have done?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, it\u2019d been the principle thing to do is let you know it first, Dad. (Stronger voice) Dad, be honest and tell you true. You\u2019ve have so many burdens on you, and I thought maybe\u2014 I didn\u2019t want to burden you.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Clicks tongue) Hah. Ah, this is, this is a very consternating to me, very disturbing to me, very<\/i> very disturbing to me. Did you want to take a chance of our<\/i> security\u2014 In the first place, why did you ask her<\/i> to violate a rule which you knew I had? That\u2019s an insult to her<\/i>. (Pause) Why\u2019d you pick her out?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, Dad, the reason I picked her out because I really<\/i> thought in my mind that she was going back.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Why?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> I don\u2019t know<\/i>. I just had\u2014 Dad, I unt\u2014 I\u2019ll tell you true\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, that don\u2019t mat\u2014 well, we\u2014 we\u2014\u00a0we\u2019re rational beings, uh, Reverend Moore, um, you just had it in your mind, there\u2019s a thousand people out here and you didn\u2019t have it in your mind that one of the rest of us going back, except Kay. (Pause) I\u2019m sure she\u2019s going to work on this proving your pathetic abilities. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, Dad, I just had it in my mind. I don\u2019t know why.<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd: <\/b>(unintelligible) \u2014 thousand people in here. You could have asked me<\/i>, you could have asked somebody else (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> How many people out here are from Los Angeles?<\/p>\n

3rd male:<\/b> How many? Uh\u2014 Look at that\u2014 look at that crowd\u2014\u00a0look at\u2014 turn around there and see.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Better than half the crowd. (Pause) Why didn\u2019t you ask them?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> (voice quieter, like mike moved away) Well, I didn\u2019t think, Dad. I think\u2014 (voice fades)<\/p>\n

First male: <\/b>Even if you had thought I was going back, you shouldn\u2019t have given me a message to take back for you, \u2018cause you must have thought I was a traitor or something.<\/p>\n

Another soft voice:<\/b> It was his<\/i> problem.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, if it was an insult, I\u2019m sorry, Kay.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> No, no if\u2014 if\u2014 no if<\/i>. It is an insult. We have a strict rule (stumbles for words) She\u2019s quite right in saying that. It\u2019s a insult. I don\u2019t know where you\u2019d ever get an idea that I thought anything<\/i> but her of the highest, and you<\/i> must have got that idea someplace<\/i>, because I don\u2019t believe anybody\u2019s<\/i> got any insights but me<\/i>. Something<\/i> must give your, your head the idea that uh, she would listen to your bullshit, and uh, pass on about relatives, when I\u2019ve preached against relatives, telling you, don\u2019t trust them, don\u2019t have anything to do with them, they fucked over half<\/i> the congregation, I\u2019ve been over and over and over and over and over<\/i> and over and over<\/i>\u2014 cut off from them\u2014 we\u2019ve had people I\u2019ve had to protect every night<\/i>, they been set up schemes to try to get them under conservatorship, they\u2019ve tried to arrange that some of their child was dying and tell them their children was dying, their momma was dying, their momma and dad both<\/i> dying, we\u2019ve had everything<\/i> done, dirty tricks of relatives. Then all<\/i> of a sudden, you<\/i> come up with the one big thing we tell, I preach every meeting, forget relatives. Jesus said, who is my father, my mother, my sister or my brother except he that does the will of the one that sent me. Who sent you?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> That\u2019s right, Dad.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Who sent you?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> You.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well then, do they accept me?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> No\u2014 no, Dad, they don\u2019t\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Then they\u2014 you\u2014 you should have nothing to do with them.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/b> Right. (Applause) (Tape cuts off for several moments)<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Ben Barrett, who do you think about all this so far? (Pause) Would you stand up? Give a few comments of what you think of what\u2019s happened here so far.<\/p>\n

Barrett:<\/b> Well, I\u2019m not really sure<\/i>. It\u2019s all real\u2014 really new to me. You\u2014<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> It certainly made an impression<\/i> on you, one way or the other.<\/p>\n

Barrett:<\/b> Well, it\u2019s made an impression, yes.<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> What do you think?<\/p>\n

Barrett:<\/b> (Pause) Well. (Pause) I don\u2019t really know what to say. (Pause) I\u2014<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Well, if your life<\/i> depended on security\u2014 (Pause) how would you handle it?<\/p>\n

Barrett:<\/b> I\u2019d do anything in my power<\/i>, to\u2014 (pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (fading in from off mike)\u2014 how has this night affected you, being that he\u2019s asked you a question, which was his business, I didn\u2019t ask him to do so. What\u2019s\u2014 what\u2019s his uh\u2014 uh\u2014 How do you feel about what\u2019s happened tonight?<\/p>\n

Barrett:<\/b> When I first got here, let me say, I wasn\u2019t\u2014 sure\u2014 everything\u2014 a little different from the way I expected it. I\u2019ve never been so much involved in the church before.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Mmm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Barrett:<\/b> But uh, I definitely like it here. You know\u2014 I have thought about, you know, going back, but I can\u2019t go back.<\/p>\n

Voice off mike: <\/b>(unintelligible) \u2014expected?<\/p>\n

Barrett:<\/b> Well (pause), it\u2019s a little bit more \u2014 I mean, it\u2019s more crowded<\/i> than I expected it to be, in the housing, which I understand<\/i>, and\u2014 I mean it\u2019s no big problem<\/i>. But uh, ah, the food, the taste of the different foods are different and unexpected. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Woman in crowd:<\/b> (fading in from off mike) \u2014you couldn\u2019t go back. Why? (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Barrett:<\/b> Well, I\u2014\u00a0I just don\u2019t uh, feel like I could go back and be happy there<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Long pause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (fading in from off mike) \u2014interesting, interesting that uh, interesting uh, (unintelligible) What is it?<\/p>\n

Soft voices in crowd.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> When you stop to think of the crowding and the food\u2014 (pause) Um, when you compare that to the States where you had to plan the welfare of your<\/i> child and your<\/i> wife the rest of your life. And you\u2019re older than your wife and child, so it\u2019s a chance like some of us that you\u2019d have to see them grow up or provide for them, after you were handicapped or unable to work. Compare that with the security you would have, knowing an environment that\u2014 that will never have to be worried<\/i> about, because you have a thousand neighbors and aunts and uncles that will sustain an organization and a good Dad, a good leader, that will sustain their every medical need and your<\/i> every medical need, when you\u2019re old, or when you\u2019re handicapped, or when you\u2019re physically down. And I\u2019m\u2014 And I wanted to speak to you, because a lot of peo\u2014 (burps) people who have those questions ought to think about the whole<\/i> (Pause) the whole picture. Not to mention nuclear war, racism\u2014 not, not only\u2014 not only a situation that would affect black<\/i> people \u2014 it\u2019s a little more difficult for you to relate to, because you\u2019ve not been black, but there\u2019s a gross unemployment amongst whites<\/i>, 350,000 miners are going to go to jail or go back to, to the mines, and they\u2019re white. Those who are unemployed\u2014 how many heard what I spoke last night on mutation of genes, DNA, recombinant um, experimentation, they\u2019re going to experiment to make a certain type of human species who will not able to think and only do physical work. They\u2019re messing<\/i> with the genes<\/i>. In the same process of doing this, they can create viruses that will kill the whole of the United States, because they don\u2019t know what the hell they\u2019re doing. They\u2019re altering lifestyle<\/i>. The University of California\u2019s doing it, tax money\u2019s being spent at University\u2014\u00a0Northwestern University, Michigan State University, which is a CIA front. We know that from our own experience. Michigan State University\u2019s been involved in the conspiracy against us. It is a whole, a whole telecommunications system there involved with such little uh, schemes as how to destroy revolutionaries. (Pause) That\u2019s the\u2014 That\u2019s the delightful America. So that, that America will affect you. It is America that has a very short future. If you are in America, you have to think in the terms that your\u2014 your beautiful daughter will never grow up<\/i>. There\u2019s not a scientist that gives any child a chance, that is the age of your child, to make it 14 years. There\u2019s not a scientist<\/i> that gives a chance for the United States to last 14 years. (Pause) We\u2019re at the 12 o\u2019clock hour. I think it\u2019s a half minute to 12, by the nuclear clock, according to scientists. And no way <\/i>do they see with all these\u2014 every day having a new situation, like now it\u2019s the confrontation of world powers with Israel and Lebanon, last week, Ethiopia and Somalia, in eyeball-to-eyeball nuclear confrontation. Finally, somebody makes a mistake<\/i>. They\u2019re going to make a bad mistake. Like the guy that come down to South America that was a assistant commander of submarine \u2014 how many remember that story? \u2014 well, you ought to\u2014 you ought to get it in your head, and tell it. He was down in a Polaris submarine. Every two months, the Polaris submarines go through a full test, like it\u2019s an alert. Nobody knows it\u2019s not for real, except the commander. He comes to the point in which he turns the key, if it\u2019s real. Many, many stages, they go through all of them, until he turns the key. Then 16 missiles come out of that submarine that\u2014 each of them will destroy a city the size of New York, Moscow, Keev [Kiev], Stalingrad, Leningrad. The night he was on that patrol \u2014 one of them, they went through many of them, he used to (stumbles over words) finally you just get steeled to it, and he said he\u2019d\u2014 careless<\/i>, you get careless<\/i> about your test. But this one night, the captain took the key. He went up and pushed some but\u2014 button that gives him some kind of a reconnaissance report, some kind of a communications report, it is a\u2014 it\u2014 it\u2019s a test<\/i>. He said, why are you turning that key? He said, mind your own goddamn business. The commander was going to turn the key that would have fired all preset, all 16 missiles. He grabbed the wrench, wrestled with him, and didn\u2019t make it. The captain knocked<\/i> him down, but fortunately another man was brought into the foreway, and they got him just<\/i> before he turned the goddamned key. He lost his mind. He\u2019d been under\u2014\u00a0He went stir<\/i> crazy, he\u2019d been a\u2014 he\u2019d been under the water too long. But that\u2019s the danger you\u2019ve got in a nuclear age. That\u2019s why I wanted to get our people out of it. Not just the racism, but that affects white, black, brown, everybody. There\u2019s not a snowball\u2019s chance in hell that one of these mistakes are not going to go off sometime, and Krush\u2014 (excitedly) and [former USSR premier Nikita] Khrushchev told it, while he was president of the Soviet Union, he said, a missile got loose in Siberia and we stopped it just before Hawaii. (Pause) Another missile was in the, in the um, someplace in Siberia, the goddamn thing, uh, earthquake set it off. And they had a hell of a time getting it stopped. In Maryland, man was sitting in his silo, one of the men, he looked out the silo\u2014 he just happened to look out the silo window, all of his panel was dead. He looked out and saw the, the bay doors opening on a (stretches out word) great big missile. I don\u2019t know what it was, Titan, and uh, a Minuteman I think, it was a Minuteman missile. He looked, I say, what the fuck is going on<\/i>? Our panel\u2019s not lit up. And they had to raise hell. And they\u2014 and then\u00a0when seconds<\/i>\u2014 they raised hell, they had to tear out the whole power base, they had to cut their power off, some way, I don\u2019t remember all the complications to stop<\/i> the power, \u2018cause they could do nothing<\/i> to stop that goddamn missile. And they stopped it within seven seconds and it was targeted in to\u2014 I think they even told<\/i> the news, it was in a digest, se\u2014 I think it was Keev, in the Soviet Union. And naturally, if Keev, with all the millions of, of Soviet citizens had been wiped out, the Russians would have immediately retaliated and wiped\u2014 there\u2019d have been a nuclear war and, as the Secretary of, of Defense [Harold Brown] said, it\u2019d been over in 20 minutes, and 149 million Americans would have been dead in the first 20 minutes of the war. What happened to that missile? A rat chewed through, and by chance, cross-circuited the sonofabitch. Now there\u2019ve been endless<\/i> number of accidents like that. Happened in Spain<\/i>, over Spain, the atomic bomb, they had an accident, and several bombs fell and Spain got\u2014 and (stumbles for words) is under dictatorship. [Francisco] Franco got so pissed at U.S., for running around with these missiles, he said you dig up all<\/i> this ground, you dig it all<\/i> up, and it was acres<\/i> and acres<\/i> and tons<\/i> and tons<\/i>, yes, and they dug<\/i> that goddamn ground, he said, you get that shit out of my country. And they went back and buried it in North Carolina. Buried<\/i> it in North Carolina, and it was so filled with radiation that nobody will be able to touch that soil for a million years. And they buried it deep in our soil. Only stupid Americans would be\u2014 would tolerate a thing like that happening, that they would\u2014 could bury that kind of shit. Even a dictator in Fran\u2014 in Spain, Franco, had more respect for his people than that. He said, you get that shit out<\/i>. Because all the tomatoes died, everything<\/i>, all the plants died, and if it had been the right wind, Madrid<\/i> would have been destroyed. Every person in the capital of Spain would have been killed. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Since the greater part of our family has been over here, ah, all that atomic waste that they bur\u2014 ah, sunk out by the Farrilon Islands has uh, started breaking loose and leaking, and it\u2019s affected the marine<\/i> life out there, and uh, they can\u2019t seem to stop that<\/i>, and uh, they just moved a bunch of that nerve gas in Colorado, and the containers had rusted through, and they don\u2019t know what the damage\u2014 and they\u2019re\u2014 they\u2019re taking it from state to state now, trying to find someplace to put it, so, what he\u2019s talking about is, there is no safety there no more, because the capitalist, uh, greed and uh, uh, their way of life doesn\u2019t guarantee anybody any life at all there. They don\u2019t care about you, or me or anyone else. (Long pause.) There\u2019s some more new folks that have come in, um, and w\u2014 we\u2019d like to hear from you, sometime tonight. Not a long dissertation, but there\u2019s about 75 of you just got in here. (Pause) So we have to start calling names? The mike is up here, so if new<\/i> folks\u2014 (Pause) Come on, there\u2019s more than three new people in the\u2014 in the damn house. (Pause) I know. (Long pause) And before we get going, Brother Moore, Dad asked you a question, what was\u2014 what was wrong with you, then, so we can clear the floor off and\u2014 what else is next? And then the\u2014 all the new people that were on the long, the long talk, so Brother Moore, wh\u2014 what did you do that was wrong? Quickly tell us, please.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> What did I do was wrong?<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> You heard me. You heard me. (Pause) You heard<\/i> me, Brother Moore. What did you do that was wrong<\/i>?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well. Well, whatever I did was wrong\u2014<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Nononononononono. (Deliberate) What did you do<\/i> that was wrong? Not whatever you did, not what might have been, what did you do that was wrong?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Oh. Well, one thing I did that was wrong, ah, let Kay\u2014 I asked Kay about contacting my peoples. Is that right? So, I did it, and I\u2019m very sorry, I will not never do\u2014<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> What was wrong about doing that? We know you did that. What was wrong about doing that<\/i>?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, I was going against the rules. I was\u2014<\/p>\n

End of side 1.<\/p>\n

Side two.<\/p>\n

Lee Inghram:<\/b> \u2014 why it was messed up and how it could hurt this entire family. You have to understand that, it ain\u2019t one goddamn bit funny.<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> (Raised voice) And it\u2019s not a mis\u2014 it\u2019s not a mistake. We get ourself off the hook and say it\u2019s a mistake. Uh-huh. Mistake implies that it wasn\u2019t thought out. Now you didn\u2019t seek anybody else out here, to do your carrying your messages for, but Kay. Right?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Yep, I\u2014<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> All right, then, you thought that out, right? So that was not a mistake. (Pause) A mistake is if you come up this corner and turn this way instead of that way to go home, just zoom zoom. You didn\u2019t think<\/i> about that turn, one way or another, you just made a turn and went. That\u2019s a mistake. But when you think it all<\/i> out, just as Lee said, (Deliberate) that was a thought-out counter-revolutionary act. And if you don\u2019t see<\/i> that, you\u2019ll not really correct it, \u2018cause you\u2019ll have mistakes the rest of your time.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Yes. Well, Jack, I see now, I see now.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Quickly) I\u2019m going to tell you, Reverend, you should have seen long<\/i> before. She hadn\u2019t been here a day, and I hadn\u2019t said shit<\/i> to her about relatives, but she knew<\/i>. You have been here for months, and every meeting, I have spoken for sever our relationships with our relatives, because of proof<\/i> we\u2019d had that mothers have betrayed children, and sold them out for $2500, we\u2019d seen all this shit, one was standing right next to you, her mother, couldn\u2019t be any better as American mothers, but she tried to get her in trouble with KGO, we got the goddamn \u2014 that letter, by the way, show that letter to her, I had it again today, because I wanted her to see, not that she needs any proof<\/i> of it, but you need to read letters like that. You<\/i> do. I don\u2019t think she<\/i> does, but you<\/i> do. But I\u2014 you\u2014\u00a0I got, when you got up here, you don\u2019t think your daughter falls in that category. And I know<\/i> what I\u2019m feeling. You think your daughter does<\/i> care about you.<\/p>\n

Male voice in audience:<\/b> She told<\/i> you she (unintelligible word). We told you that.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, what the hell she done about it to prove it? She did tell you she cared, didn\u2019t she? Huh?<\/p>\n

Male in audience:<\/b> You said<\/i> she did, while ago, when you talked to her on the phone.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Yeah, she said\u2014 she said\u2014<\/p>\n

Male in audience:<\/b> I love you, Dad.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> And you went into all this story about how much she loved you, that she wanted to take care of you, too. Why hasn\u2019t she sent any money? (Pause) \u2018Cause you told her not to?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Yes, I\u2014 I believe it (Jones talks over him)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2014\u00a0believe it. Uh, don\u2019t you think if she loved you, she might send you a little shirt, uh, or maybe uh, some uh, bon-bons?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Yeah, I do, Dad.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2018Cause after all, you\u2019re the father\u2019s taken care of, which I think was disloyalty on\u2014 inconsideration on your<\/i> part. You oughta told her, well, I, we uh, we could sure use the money. (Pause) I\u2014 I think that you coulda done that, if you got a daughter is all that flushed, when I\u2019m fighting for my life here, uh, to\u2014 to see that we have the best of all possible worlds, and we\u2019re not<\/i> where we want to be, in terms of housing, but it, by God when you put up a house, it cost you $3000, you got to be\u2014 you got to be goddamn careful that uh, you, you don\u2019t put those houses<\/i> up until you got all your money invested so people will eat<\/i> and have enough medication for any<\/i> disease. We got one pill, one medication, one vial for one person\u2019s condition here that cost (Emphatic) $87. (Pause) So that\u2019s<\/i> an explanation to you why we can\u2019t have all the housing we\u2019d like<\/i> to have. I\u2019d much rather be a little crowded, and I\u2019d sure as hell, uh, uh, be glad to do without some of the little luxuries and uh, uh, little refreshments<\/i>, and uh, enjoy rice. It sure made a strong mission out of the Chinese. I\u2019d much<\/i> rather have that, than to see somebody in a condition where they\u2019ll go blind<\/i> or die<\/i>, if we hadn\u2019t had the right<\/i> medication came through the\u2014\u00a0the day before with the dentist that I had to pay a handsome price for us for, Tommy\u2014 Tony\u2014 Tommy\u2014\u00a0McMurry, Solomon McMurry would have died. (Pause) One day<\/i> earlier, if she had had a baby, she\u2019d have died (Pause) without the medication that we could put through her veins, intravenously. (Pause) \u2018Cause her blood pressure went to 180 over 120. And that would have killed her and the baby. (Pause) So, by God, to me, those are things you need to weigh \u2014 I don\u2019t know how you expect a person anyway, I\u2019m just a poor humble person that was born right by <\/i>the railroad tracks \u2014 I don\u2019t know where in the hell you expect me to come up<\/i> with some goddamn money to have uh, uh, luxural villa<\/i>, with a thousand people. How in the hell would you expect me to offer any more? I give you all<\/i> that you want to eat. (Struggles for words) You can\u2019t expect that to be steak<\/i>, for Christ\u2019s sakes.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/b> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Even American doctors can\u2019t afford meat now. There\u2019s an article in Newsweek<\/i> that doctors\u2019<\/i> families are not making enough money to make ends meet, and professional people not making enough money to make ends meet, and they eat meat once a week. Well, we do that well, and usually better.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/b> Right. (Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> So, I\u2014 I don\u2019t know what you prefer. I\u2014 I would prefer having Tiny, uh, uh, Solomon Turner\u2014 I\u2019d rather\u2014 I\u2019d prefer that she<\/i> have the medication she\u2019d need, and be a little crowded.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/b> Right. (Applause)<\/p>\n

Pause.<\/p>\n

Beam: <\/b>Now, uh\u2014 see, and if you had really been into what is going on here, you\u2019d know probably<\/i> that they woulda fixed it up so you coulda contacted and got<\/i> some money out of that wench, and woulda helped our cause. (Pause) You know?<\/p>\n

One voice in audience: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Yeah. (Pause) That\u2019s right, Jack.<\/p>\n

Beam: <\/b>\u2018Cause there\u2019s nothing back in\u2014 in the United States but shit. That\u2019s all.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> That\u2019s right. I know that. That\u2019s right. And I\u2019m\u2014 I\u2019m\u2014 I\u2019m not thinking<\/i> about going back there. I\u2019m not thinking about going. (Jack and Moore talk over each other)<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> \u2014 no, but you been thinking about talking to somebody back there.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> No.<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Yes, you have. Yeah, you\u2014 you gotta face that, Ed. You wanted to write \u2018em a letter. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Oh yeah, I wanted to write \u2018em a letter.<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> But I mean, you wanted to get a word uh, by the\u2014 the regular way that we have of doing things here, via, or by way of Kay Nelson<\/i> there.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> \u2014 and ma\u2014 uh, make her look like a damn fool, like you know\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Off mike, fades in) Oh, you didn\u2019t make her look (unintelligible word) at all. I don\u2019t think it was ten minutes till she got to me. I just now took it up. She didn\u2019t just tell me today. Shit, you know more\u2014 got\u2014\u00a0your\u2014\u00a0your\u2014 your tongue, no more, hung out. Your long long tongue no longer got out and back, until she told me that. (Pause) Now any woman\u2014 you ought to know better than this\u2014 and I say\u2014 I\u2019m saying that you did<\/i> underestimate her. She had been lived in a marriage, had a successful real estate business, risked<\/i> that goddamn real estate business for this cause, when the goddamn no-count bastards called whatever their name is, out of all these traitors, I can\u2019t keep up with them. There\u2019re so damn many relative traitors, I can\u2019t keep up with\u2014 what are, the Medlocks, gonna give their license, she sold out lock, stock and barrel, div\u2014 separated from her husband, let him take his<\/i>, she went and took hers<\/i>, came over here and forgot it all. Now, uh, honey, somebody made a bad estimation there and I\u2014 I don\u2019t\u2014 I don\u2019t\u2014\u00a0I\u2014 seriously, if you don\u2019t know enough about yourself, you better work<\/i> on yourself. When you<\/i> were making that kind of conclusion, you were insulting her. Wasn\u2019t no pathetic intuition. You were insulting<\/i> the woman. (Pause) \u2018Cause I had preached deathly, deathly, deathly, no message <\/i>is given privately or publicly. Now you\u2019re a bright man. Good man. You listen to cues, you say \u2018em, you\u2019re a senior, and I would be even firmer<\/i>, if it were not for the fact that you\u2019re a senior. But by God, now all you better get your ears open, and wake up now. (Pause) Now this\u2014 let this be an example. Don\u2019t<\/i> try to send any messages to anybody. We don\u2019t know who you are. (Pause) And we don\u2019t know what you\u2019re trying to do. (Pause) I do<\/i> know that one of your relatives is trying to keep somebody from getting a hold<\/i> of you. (Pause) That you don\u2019t want after you. (Pause) And they\u2019re using it in a threatening way. (Pause) They\u2019re not going to interfere with them getting any information much longer. (Pause) To quote unquote their position and their thought, that\u2019s it. (Pause) So somebody\u2019s looking for you, for something. I don\u2019t bother<\/i> my children with everything that they\u2019ve got coming down the path. And Kay knows nothing about, \u2018cause she didn\u2019t tell me anything about it. She\u2019s not the source of my information. If she does<\/i> know something about it, she didn\u2019t get it from me. (Pause) She doesn\u2019t know it. She says she doesn\u2019t know. (Pause) Okay. I do<\/i>. (Pause) I don\u2019t know what you\u2014 what arrangements you\u2019ve made, but you ask them to keep some people from knowing where you are, and they said, well, they weren\u2019t going to do it much longer, they couldn\u2019t do it much longer. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Uh, Dad, can I ask a question about\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You can ask any question you want<\/i> to.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Yeah. Uh\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I may have mentioned it to Rita. Rita, will you come up here (voice fades). Rita Lenin. Back of the stage and talk in my ear.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Uh, did uh, you know I turned it in\u2014 when I turned my land into the church, and I turned it in to (unintelligible) county, I mean, the county, that money? That\u2019s the onliest people I know<\/i> would be looking for me, if it was not paid off.<\/p>\n

Kay: <\/b>We ran\u2014 We ran a check over all\u2014 everything you owed and went, went to the title insurance and everything that you owed that was under your name, listed and re\u2014 recorded, was paid off prior to funds coming. So that couldn\u2019t possibly be it.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> She has clearance. She has clearance to look in my files. Rita has clearance. Go ahead.<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> You know what, uh, Brother Moore, even\u2014 even that question to Kay now, you\u2014 you\u2019re \u2014 you\u2019re assuming that it could\u2014\u00a0coulda been our fault, if anybody was looking for you, that she didn\u2019t pay off one of the bills\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2014 Had nothing to do with the church whatsoever. (Speaks slowly and deliberately) Has nothing to do with the church or your property, nothing whatsoever.<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> You see that kind of thinking now? You couldn\u2019t possibly done something on your own, to get you in trouble. It had to be somebody else, you know? Us<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Wish people would do more study of theirselves. We haven\u2019t got all night here to discuss this, because we\u2019ve got other issues to bear, and we are winning some points with the war\u2019s going on in Georgetown, with diplomats and\u2014 we got one of them backed up from his position, that got snotty earlier, that I was telling you about. He\u2019s\u2014 when I told him I would\u2014\u00a0we\u2019re not going to do this, and we\u2019re not going to do that, and I took a crazy nigger stance,<\/a> he is already now being very nice. (Pause) It\u2019s the only on\u2014 only language he understand.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Claps.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> As I said, we are winning here because we have land to win it with, we got some means to protect<\/i> ourselves to win it with, we got a position to stand for, and that\u2019s the most dignifying thing in the world, even if it meant<\/i> you die, which we\u2019re a long<\/i> way from dying tonight, I can tell you that. Uh\u2014 we\u2019ve been close to it, we know the difference. But we have to do some talking because we had issues, because we have said\u2014 one thing I promise, when you come over here, every bit of good<\/i> you\u2019re going to know, and every bit of bad. That eliminates paranoia. Any shit that comes, I may take four or five hours to assess<\/i> it, because I want to be sure<\/i> I\u2019m not alarming people prematurely, \u2018cause it\u2019s a (struggles for words) painful thing, I don\u2019t like to be alarmed. I like to know things just as they are. And it may take me four or five hours, and this day, it took all day, putting this shit together, but when I got it together, I (unintelligible) over talking to Charlie and Joyce, and that\u2014 well, shit. The last thing I heard over my shoulder on the radio, I thought, this is it. They\u2019re gonna have to know about it. They\u2019re gonna have to know about it now<\/i>. I thought it\u2019d wait till maybe, maybe tomorrow. But it uh, wouldn\u2019t wait till tomorrow. And it\u2019s good that we didn\u2019t, because we been able to get through\u2014 got sonbitch out of bed, ain\u2019t nothing like saying we\u2019re gonna die, to get folks out of bed.<\/p>\n

Slight audience reaction.<\/p>\n

And that\u2019s all\u2014 That\u2019s the first phrase I start with. “Would you like for us to die?” (Pause) No, I don\u2019t mean you, man, I\u2014 (chuckles) Christ. The first<\/i> question we ask\u2014 and that shows you a relative amount of peace<\/i>, that when they\u2019re praising us, they been giving us awards, we been honored at various meetings, but we have told those people\u2014 on different occasion, we have called the Prime Minister [Forbes Burnham], called his wife [Viola Burnham], and we didn\u2019t like something, we didn\u2019t like the way the CIA was influencing some people, we wanted him to take a stronger stand, that\u2019s why I\u2019m glad to hear<\/i> some of this shit, that he\u2019s taken a stronger stand with the international bankers\u2014 Now, I know<\/i> they\u2019re a little country, but by God, I wanted him to get back to that character he had when he said to [Henry] Kissinger, fly over. Kiss my ass, I\u2019m going to die with dignity. That\u2019s what I want him to hold onto. And as he said before, we\u2014 we saved\u2014 [Vibert Mingo] the Minister of Home Affairs said we saved<\/i> socialism in this country. Well, I\u2019m going to keep on saving socialism on this<\/i> territory. You can bet\u2014 better believe that. And I said, one\u2014 one day, I just had one of the secretaries call, I think Paula [Adams] called and said uh, um, if we, if you don\u2019t meet our demands by five o\u2019clock, we\u2019ll be dead. And Patty [Cartmell] jokingly said over the shoulder, and don\u2019t wait until five-fifteen.<\/p>\n

Slight laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> So we have quite a bit of mileage here. Fifty, eighty of you coming through, a week, and I\u2019ve talked to those sonsabitches that way more than once. We sat on our ass one day, we\u2014 we\u2014 we fasted<\/i> twice, we didn\u2019t get started, we told them we\u2019re going to, but fuck \u2018em, we thought we\u2019d eat, we\u2014 at least we\u2019re going to die well, we\u2019re going to eat well while we (voice trails off). We\u2019re told them we\u2019re fasting, and we said we wasn\u2019t going to produce a goddamn crop<\/i> and we\u2019re going to tear up all the fields<\/i> and burn down the houses. (Pause) Now that\u2019s what we tell them. That\u2019s the way we talk to them. These intellectuals with their Ph.D.\u2019s, and all their degrees, they don\u2019t understand it when you\u2019re talking nice to them. But when you talk about burning all the houses down and tearing up the ground and raising hell and uh, shooting off firecrackers (short laugh), they understand that. (Pause) So there it is\u2014 don\u2019t feel insecure about this. Some of you, oh my God, what\u2019s going to happen, all this kind of shit and threatening, honey this is a mild night. You\u2019re in a mild<\/i> night.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/b> Right. (Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You might even get\u2014 You might even get to see the late night show before it\u2019s over with. This is a mild<\/i> night. Go ahead. It\u2019s moving much faster than usual. (Pause) Hmm? (Pause) Marceline was chased all over the United States one time while she was there and I was here, we were committed that much to dying separately if necessary. She was running all over to get hold of the deputy prime minister [Ptolemy Reid] and tell him, by God, we wanted this sonofabitch throwed out that was running the government while he was up there signing the Panamanian Treaty. We wanted the sumbitch run\u2014 throwed out or we\u2019d died by a five o\u2019clock that<\/i> night, that was two<\/i> nights on five o\u2019clock. (Pause) We like five o\u2019clock for some reason, I don\u2019t know why. (Pause) Just gives us time to have dinner.<\/p>\n

Laughter.<\/p>\n

Long pause.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Father\u2014 (Pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What\u2019d you want to say?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Dad, I want you to forgive me. I wouldn\u2019t never do nothing like that no more.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What did you do wrong?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> Well, I (Pause) I went against the\u2014 went against the cause<\/i>. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> In what way?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> By not uh, obeying you and your instructions\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What were my instructions\u2014<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/b> What she said not to do.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> About\u2014 (tape fades out)<\/p>\n

Tape originally posted March 1999<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1, Pt. 2). To read the Tape Summary, click here. Jones: (Sternly) Now get your ass up here, or you will regret it. (Pause) […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":7,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-27299","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27299","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=27299"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27299\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":123225,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27299\/revisions\/123225"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=27299"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}