{"id":27437,"date":"2013-06-16T00:20:11","date_gmt":"2013-06-16T00:20:11","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/alternativejonestown.com\/?page_id=27437"},"modified":"2019-02-13T10:11:56","modified_gmt":"2019-02-13T18:11:56","slug":"q380","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=27437","title":{"rendered":"Q380 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>, Pt. 2<\/a>).<\/p>\n

(Note: <\/strong>This tape was transcribed by Vicki Perry. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)<\/i><\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What\u2019s going on in here?<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>(murmurs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Uh\u2013 the uh\u2013 you haven\u2019t uh\u2013 you haven\u2019t changed your practice<\/i>. I don\u2019t understand it. I don\u2019t understand how anybody in this damned<\/i> community could do that. I\u2019m\u2013 I hold my (unintelligible word) I can hardly my head up, for my hands are swollen up with rheumatism till they look like a rubber glove inflated with water. I manage to speak to anybody. I never once failed to speak if someone speaks to me. And I\u2013 if it is, I have not heard it, because I am certainly always say hi or (stumbles over words) on the second reflex, haven\u2019t had much sleep, little dull, I\u2019ll say hi as you\u2019re going by, I\u2019ll call to the person. I don\u2019t understand this, I don\u2019t relate to this shit, and there ain\u2019t nobody going to go over there that\u2019s got a chip on their shoulder and can\u2019t take\u2013 can\u2019t take a criticism and can\u2019t be civil with their fellow man and their fellow sister. I\u2019m not going to even relate<\/i> to you people, you\u2019re not going to bu\u2013 you\u2019re not going to ruin a whole opportunity for a thousand people.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>(Applause)<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Agitated) (unintelligible word) have to be the best. And whether you can get yourself into the shape to be the best, it remains to be seen. I\u2019m not\u2013 I\u2019m not prejudicial. I\u2019m open and objective on the score. But you have to show me more. (unintelligible name), did you wish to say something?<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/b> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I don\u2019t care what the shit flinger\u2019s doing. I\u2019m concerned about what you<\/i> people doing. The shit slinger\u2019s not on the floor. You want to say\u2013 you want to say something about the shit slinger, that\u2019s all right, but the mai\u2013 main issue is how you handle the shit. And that is, turn the other cheek.<\/p>\n

Woman in crowd:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I mean, you\u2019ve got<\/i> to do that, or we can\u2019t stake any kind of reaction. No kind of reaction but calm and cool.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> That\u2019s right, uh\u2013 I\u2019m not\u2013<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2013all of you.<\/p>\n

Woman in crowd:<\/b> That\u2019s right!<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I don\u2019t hear\u2013 want no damned excuse, I don\u2019t give it that they call you a son of a bitch eighteen times a day. I want to hear no<\/i> retaliation from you. That\u2019s what I\u2019m demanding. I mean from now on till the\u2013 that jet carts off for that round up. I want to hear no<\/i> shit coming back from you people. No bullshit music. I don\u2019t want you to be caught up in no goddamned games, sex games or foolishness. I want to keep your head on straight. You can be in a relationship, but I don\u2019t want no goddamned mess like we\u2019ve seen here in the last few hours of people trying to kill themselves or go running off because some\u2013 somebody\u2019s with somebody else. You know you\u2019ll have\u2013 you\u2019ll have<\/i> to produce the best<\/i> of what Jonestown is. Communism<\/i>. \u2018Cause it\u2019s not just Jim Jones, you see. It\u2019s Marxist-Leninism. This man said that it\u2019s the only true American communist\u2013 North American communist colony\u2013 or com\u2013 community rather, alive<\/i>. The only communist\u2013 US communist society alive,<\/i> is what he said to us. Now we sure as hell won\u2019t let that down.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>(Murmurs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Two hundred and eighty million people looking at us. Any of your crud comes out there, damn it, you\u2019d ruin it for every child that\u2019s in this place. (Pause) So anybody want to probe in? What\u2013 uh, what\u2013 what about it\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman in crowd:<\/b> It\u2013 it just not\u2013 it\u2019s not (unintelligible)\u2013 uh, Dad, it\u2013 it\u2019s uh\u2013<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2013who we are as a people. What the hell do we\u2013 you\u2013 you reveal your own belief<\/i> uh, that the Ku Klux Klan\u2019s<\/i> propagated. Are you Ku Klux Klan or are you black<\/i>? You\u2019re propagating top nigger, you\u2019re propagating Ku Klux Klan doctrine, and you say back, well, it takes a nigger to know a nigger. This is all Ku Klux Klan talk.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> It is.<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> Is it?<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/b> He was wrong to\u2013<\/p>\n

Male 3:<\/b> The thing\u2013 the thing is\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>It\u2019s idiotic and it\u2019s painful.<\/p>\n

Male 3:<\/b> It\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s idiotic \u2018cause it says that you\u2019ve been thwarted by American societ\u2013 society that separates color, when the whole thing is that we\u2019ve been all oppressed as workers. That\u2019s the whole thing. And we\u2019re\u2013<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Have all of you in this group seen Harlan County<\/i>? You see a black man with a white man\u2013 white man, all lay on the same line, and it was a white man that got shot down. Left his wo\u2013 young wife with a baby. Shot down by the goon squads of the capitalist owners of the mine. Isn\u2019t no difference what color it was. They were working<\/i> class people.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>That\u2019s the issue. And you bring this color shit into this\u2013 I\u2019m tired of it. I said I\u2019m tired<\/i> of it.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>(Murmurs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yes, that\u2019s what I wonder. Well, you ask them that, they can ask that. Communism to be.<\/p>\n

Male 4:<\/b> I believe communism is a\u2013 is a\u2013 a right<\/i>, and everyone should have to work together to be able to come to one\u2013 to one ultimate conclusion<\/i>, and it is communalism<\/i>. Living, working, eating together, sharing what you have with the next person, and the next person sharing it with you.<\/p>\n

Male 5:<\/b> (in background) (unintelligible) you say sharing. Now you got to tell them you and the attitude you\u2013 (unintelligible) won\u2019t be sharing.<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, first and foremost, which I\u2019ve not seen from you nor anyone talking tonight. Communism<\/i> is the end of ego.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd: <\/b>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(speaks rapidly, agitated) Replace socialist-centric behavior for ego-centric behavior. You people been worrying about covering your ass all night long here. Every time I throw a ball, cover the ass. Diane? She covered her ass. She\u2013 she had fun with everybody. Had the eighteen people said she don\u2019t speak to her before she might<\/i> just slightly acknowledge that she\u2019s covering her ass. All<\/i> night long I\u2019ve heard people covering their ass. You\u2019re<\/i> not communist!<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd: <\/b>That\u2019s right!<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>That\u2019s first and foremost. Because if you did, you wouldn\u2019t give a shit<\/i> what somebody\u2019s saying about you. You\u2019d listen to it, think about it and you would react honestly and objectively. You\u2019d then<\/i> would be on the communist path, but you haven\u2019t even shown me on the communist path<\/i> today. Moment some of this hits you, you\u2013 I saw it in Diane\u2019s face, stiffen up, everybody hits somebody with something, you just stiffen up against it, you won\u2019t listen to a word to it. You\u2019re not\u2013 not only not<\/i> a communist, you\u2019re not on a communist course<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Women in crowd:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You have behaved like juveniles<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Women in crowd:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Cries out) Every person confronted here tonight for the most part except Loretta Wilkerson who said I shouldn\u2019t go. It\u2019s been nothing but juvenile behavior, not communism! Communism means the end of egocentric behavior and the beginning of socialist-centric behavior. And you have no socialist-centric behavior, or you\u2019d quit worrying about covering your ass!<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>(Applause)<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Makes me sorry I ever<\/i> left the streets of San Francisco and didn\u2019t die there. I mean this shit makes me sick. We\u2019ve come so far, to carry so much capitalist bullshit.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd: <\/b>Yeah!<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Anybody ought to have no nerve to stand up and tell me you\u2019ve done the best you can. Now nobody can stand in my face<\/i> and tell such a lie like that. You\u2019d have<\/i> to tell a lie back there doing something else. You couldn\u2019t look at my face and tell me you\u2019re doing the best you can. That\u2019d be a dirty damned liar. (Voice calms slightly) Now, folk, when are we going to grow up? Are we going to lose this revolution?<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd: <\/b>No!<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Hell of a lot of work went in to lose it. Got the eyes of the world upon us. Poland writing about us, Yugoslavia writing about us, Democratic Peoples Republic re\u2013 writing about us, even China<\/i> didn\u2019t write bad\u2013 badly about us. Soviet Union writing about us. What the hell are they going to show them? What they hell are they going to find when they break through the shell?<\/p>\n

Woman in crowd:<\/b> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(voice calms) I\u2019m fearful if they met uh, confrontation tomorrow. Now would you like to go over what is your faults? And what in the hell was wrong about your behavior that\u2019s been brought up tonight? Then by that I\u2019ll understand whether you\u2019ve grown or not. Okay. I don\u2019t want to hear nothing about Michael Simon, his course, a socialist course. (Pause) Specifically<\/i>, what did you do wrong? I heard two or three (tape edit) \u2013four. A whole lot of brown, a whole of black, a whole of yellow skins, a whole lot of white skins are in that low class, called the working class. They should be the upper class. All the wealth belongs to the working class, the ones that produce the wealth. But all the ones that hold it, are the elite. They happen to be mostly white. They have some Uncle Tom lackeys, though, that do their dirty work. You used some other color references, didn\u2019t you?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> (in background, unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>To Marxist-Leninist principle and practicing. (Resigned tone) It stabs me deeply anybody says I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m doing that to him because he\u2019s doing that to me. That\u2019s so sick.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>I\u2013 I apologize for that, Dad.<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2013blow to Timothy Stoen, until it was evident that he is not going to stop. I don\u2019t<\/i> retaliate out of vindictiveness. I don\u2019t seek to avenge my enemies. I seek<\/i> to find the class<\/i> enemy and destroy the class enemy. If that didn\u2019t happen to be Timothy Stoen\u2013 and it had not<\/i> been up till a certain date, which a conspirator [Joe Mazor] next to him, higher than him stepped forward and told how deeply enmeshed he was in<\/i> the entire<\/i> conspiracy, so then we learn at that<\/i> point that Timothy Stoen was and always had<\/i> been a fascist and a provocateur. So then we take action against him, but no<\/i> person saw me take any action against him based on a personal vendetta.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> That\u2019s exactly why\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>No matter how much he hurt me, I did not retaliate it. No matter how much goodness he\u2019d stomped on, I did not retaliate. It was only<\/i> when it became clear to<\/i> me that he<\/i> represented the class<\/i> enemy, then we took him on. And don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t apologize<\/i> for that. And if it hadna been\u2013 uh, whoever<\/i> it hada been, it wouldn\u2019t have made a difference to me if it would have been Timothy Stoen or Jim Cobb who I would not find as much uh, anger towards as I do with Timothy Stoen, but it woulda been Jim Cobb, I would\u2019ve reacted to him if he<\/i> was the one giving the orders. The class<\/i> enemy. The person that trying to do all this shit to destroy black people, so we had to sneak black people out of\u2013 one of them right here in our organization tonight, had to sl\u2013 slip him out in the middle of the night to be safe<\/i> in entire Mendocino and Sonoma county. With the goddamned lies they spew out of their mouths. They\u2019re class<\/i> enemies. You got to learn the difference. Somebody goes by me and doesn\u2019t speak to me, I\u2019m<\/i> not going to get mad at that person. I\u2019m not going to retaliate by saying you horse\u2019s ass. I\u2013 I\u2013 oh, there\u2019s many a day, many a day people don\u2019t speak to me, I know. They try to avoid me. Particularly when they\u2019re plotting some shit, and I uh\u2013 I\u2013 I don\u2019t let that get me\u2013 to affect me and it shouldn\u2019t affect you. I get just as tired as you do, and just as need as rest\u2013 of rest<\/i> as you do, and then more.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Okay, now, you\u2019ll do more<\/i> than your part. Your conditioning\u2013 that has nothing to do with him. If he wants to be a class asshole, he wants to be a class egocentric, you\u2013 you have to\u2013 you have to move forward. You can\u2019t\u2013 and they say I\u2019ll do my part if he does his part. That\u2019s not co\u2013 that\u2019s not socialism. Socialism is you\u2013 you sacrifice yourself<\/i> and to hell<\/i> with what the rest of people do. See, I sit here and I look at this thing and I don\u2019t know what the hell\u2019s going to happen to my future. I don\u2019t know what the hell will happen to me in Russia\u2013 (stumbles over words) I wouldn\u2019t even\u2013 don\u2019t even give a goddamn. I don\u2019t even think about it. Don\u2019t make any difference to me. Uh, as long as I get people to safety. Back at\u2013 uh\u2013 set back as a millionaire and had anything America had to offer, but I didn\u2019t want it. I gave it up. I sacrificed<\/i>. I put me out of the way. And looks to me by this time of day, uh, this long epic that we\u2019ve been here a year, and some of us longer together, that by<\/i> now that some of you people would learn it\u2019s not based on what he<\/i> does as to what you<\/i> do. If I had reacted to this group as they\u2019ve reacted to me, I would have walked off and left this group nine hundred days ago.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/b> (applause)<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(calmer) Uh, for instance you don\u2019t rise to any rank in the political\u2013 political rank in terms of very important positions if you uh, have any affairs. They don\u2019t understand it. They understand Lenin, what he did to build<\/i> a revolution. But after the revolution\u2019s won, they have pretty strict morality. Very strict morality. They don\u2019t\u2013 they don\u2019t\u2013 they don\u2019t uh\u2013 they feel people got their mind on sex, and they don\u2019t get their mind at ease and settle down with one person that they are not due to rise in the party. And uh, you can argue that as you feel<\/i>. I<\/i> would tend to agree with it.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd: <\/b>(Murmurs agreement)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I would tend to agree with it. As he said about my<\/i> situation, he fully understood about Johnny [Moss Brown], he understood about all these cases. He fully understood<\/i>. He said you are trying to build<\/i> a revolution. But when a revolution is won<\/i>, then, we have lost (unintelligible) and I wholeheartedly agree. That\u2019s what we\u2019ve been trying to do here, but everyone trying to break these goddamned rules all the time.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd: <\/b>(Murmurs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>And we have one run off three times the other night over this sister over here and another one [Ricky Johnson] tried to commit suicide last<\/i> night, so I have no peace two<\/i> nights in a row. I don\u2019t know what we\u2019re going to do about this kind of a mess. (Pause) I have a strong feeling just to\u2013 that people act like this should never even get out. I think that we want to change the\u2013 the hospital unit and put it down here and give them one whole capacity, and we\u2019ll treat you just like they do in mental patients.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd: <\/b>(Murmurs agreement)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>They have mental wards in any sane society, and it\u2019s insane to run away three times in a jungle, filled with snakes and perhaps mercenaries and perhaps Venezuelan scouts, bounty hunters, trying to get people from\u2013 to raise money. It\u2019s insane<\/i> to run off three times. That\u2019s what I would call it, it would be insane. Any panel of psychiatrists would lock you up and say you\u2019re crazier than a fool<\/i> to be running around in a\u2013 in a\u2013 in a jungle<\/i> when you\u2019ve got (unintelligible word) sidewalks and all the provisions you have offered here for you, entertainment and so forth and so on.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> Has\u2013 Has anyone else any oth\u2013 any\u2013 any other sugge\u2013<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Here. (Pause) You. You. The only one, Richard [Ricky Johnson]. There\u2019s only one of you. (Pause)\u00a0 Or running off, this kind of bullshit. (Pause) (tape edit) You want a zoo? Then we will have\u2013 we\u2013 we will\u2013 we will\u2013 we\u2019ll create a zoo.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd: <\/b>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

(long pause, laughter, talking)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>So, tell me about this feeling of run\u2013 running away or dying.<\/p>\n

Richard:<\/b> Uh, there\u2013 (unintelligible word) it\u2019s kind of a funny answer, I couldn\u2019t really\u2013 really say how it (unintelligible). It\u2013 it\u2013 it started when I was small, uh, trying to find out in my own way, but\u2013 Well, I had uh, funny dreams<\/i>, and\u2013 but I don\u2019t know how to actually put it all together but I try to understand and th\u2013 uh\u2013 oh, Christ. (Pause) All right, I told my mother one\u2013 once when uh, when\u2013 when leaving<\/i> and she said no, you\u2019re crazy, and the next day, she told me to run away. And I kept on telling her that for a while I did\u2013 I never really understood\u2013<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> Richard\u2013 excuse me a second. Uh, I know I talked to you for a little bit last Sunday morning when\u2013<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>That\u2019s how much (unintelligible) nothing.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>(clapping)<\/p>\n

Richard:<\/b> Uh, thank you very much. I appreciate it\u2013 appreciate it.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, what about this thing you feeling you\u2019re threatening me in a dream?<\/p>\n

Richard:<\/b> Oh. It was\u2013 it was uh, actually I can\u2019t really\u2013 well, the dream\u2013 the dream I\u2013 the dream I had, it\u2013 it well, I was\u2013<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Am I sending up some shit tonight that says it voodoo? Shit, there ain\u2019t saying\u2013 I put the voodoo, the voodoo\u2019s done.<\/p>\n

Richard:<\/b> Oh.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Why in the hell don\u2019t you get your mind off that bullshit? (Pause) (tape edit) Dreams or s\u2013 astrological charts. Who\u2019ll know that shit here? (Pause) Bad enough that they had to take one miracle wark\u2013 uh, worker\u2013 one healer. Bad enough it require one<\/i> to make some people communist around here. That\u2019s shame enough. So let\u2019s don\u2019t make two<\/i> shames. You don\u2019t need to worry about it, son, you\u2019re not a prophet, you\u2019re not\u2013 your dreams don\u2019t mean a damned thing. So you can quit worrying about your dreams. Maybe then you\u2019ll dream about what you\u2019re really thinking about, \u2018cause you\u2019re dressing your dreams up, \u2018cause you\u2019re hostile<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Male in crowd:<\/b> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You\u2019re upset, you\u2019re disturbed. And I understand that. You\u2019re disturbed as a whole because you\u2019re not getting enough sex and you turn that disturbance towards me so that\u2019s why you see yourself threatening me. Hell no, that\u2019s as normal as rising of the sun. But you got to get yourself together<\/i>, and right now you\u2019re not together.<\/p>\n

Richard:<\/b> I guess I\u2019m not. I know I\u2019m not. Uh, (Pause) I\u2013 (Pause) I try for once\u2013 I\u2019ve tried to get\u2013 pull myself together and get this hostile out of myself and\u2013 (Pause) and through\u2013 (Pause) through\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(voice fades in) \u2013in the meantime that you could uh, till we determine your status\u2013 you have had emotional treatment in a mental institution in the past, haven\u2019t you?<\/p>\n

Richard:<\/b> I have.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>All right. There nothing to be more\u2013 men\u2013 nothing to worry about that anymore than being treated for uh, tonsillectomy or appendix or liver. But it would\u2013 does<\/i> require certain evaluations. And uh, in the meantime, I\u2019m wondering, uh\u2013 what is the uh, scene in the hospital. Uh, uh, is it crowded to the capacity and on the floors?<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, when are you gonna make this switch? How many uh\u2013 where Pat\u2013 how many lives with Pat\u2019s uh\u2013 how many people are in where\u2019s Pat\u2019s uh\u2013 maybe they could switch\u2013 they could use that house. It\u2019d be crowded, but they could perhaps use that house.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>Possibly, (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Woman 2: <\/b>In that one wing of the apartment when we have uh, fifteen children and one adult.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Uh-huh.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>One half of (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>And the only thing that we could\u2013 (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>She talking about (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b>(unintelligible word) and go and take care of her. She was in complete coma where she was, she shouldn\u2019t have been able to come out of it at the time that she did. Only because of Dad\u2019s power that he brought her out of it, and as soon as he went in and started talking to her, she re\u2013 she responded immediately. And she was not responding to none of the medical attention that our staff was giving her at all, and it is only because of Dad that she came out of it, and I\u2019d like to thank Dad. \u2018Cause all the day he\u2019s been\u2013 he\u2019s been\u2013 he was saying Ricky and everyone else who\u2019s, you know\u2013 all these problems we\u2019ve had and yet Dad\u2019s still taking care of all these other problems.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>(Applause)<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>If I\u2019da failed, there\u2019d been guilt because I failed. I didn\u2019t cause<\/i> a coma. There\u2019s a young girl, just between life and death, hanging by a string. Kay Nelson\u2019s granddaughter [Teri Smart]. They couldn\u2019t do anything for her. Only<\/i> me. Only me. But if I\u2019da failed, I\u2019d had to assume the guilt. And I felt the guilt all\u2013 all the way there and I felt the guilt wherever\u2013 failure that people have created for themselves. As you take guilt and appropriate<\/i> it in work and appreciation, it becomes the biggest<\/i> determiner for communism. If you take guilt and resent<\/i> it and don\u2019t appropriate it properly, it can do nothing for you or anyone else. How many pe\u2013 people here have not killed\u2013 killed somebody someplace along the line, emotionally? And maybe even physically? How many anybody the wrong\u2013 uh, they don\u2019t know\u2013 they don\u2019t know\u2013 you don\u2019t know. Some people are raising their hands but uh, (Pause) lots of guilt under the\u2013 under the belts of people there. And the only<\/i> possible way you can endure, is\u2013 is by facing your guilt every day. And that\u2019s what trouble is with a lot of folk, they\u2019re not facing that guilt. They resent facing guilt. That\u2019s the only<\/i> thing that can keep an organization moving to the pure<\/i> goal of\u2013 of socialism. Only guilt, for all the mistakes we\u2019ve made, for all the capitalism we\u2019ve helped create, even when we have bought an ice cream cone, or drank a Coca-Cola. I just talk<\/i> to a lot of people out here, they never assume this guilt. Say you\u2019re healthy, you\u2013 you assume guilt. You\u2019ve made a tragic blunder this week. You know what I mean, too, and they\u2013<\/p>\n

But these two people both also are responsible for their lives<\/i>. If they\u2013 This<\/i> man [Ricky Johnson] is a grown, supposedly mature adult. He drinks gasoline. The other one is a mature fifteen, for his age, and he runs away three times in one night. They both need keepers.<\/p>\n

No matter what you\u2019ve done in the picture, you can\u2019t be responsible for the whole<\/i> thing. Women should be more responsible, \u2018cause I\u2019ve taught<\/i> you so much, but it still\u2013 you girls have to learn everything the hard way. The fellas do too. So if you learn<\/i> from this thing, you will see, you\u2019ve got two\u2013 you have right now two basket cases. Which basket do you want? Or none? You got two basket<\/i> cases, ain\u2019t no other way to lay it out to ya. You got two basket cases. I can sit here and lie to you and play games and fool and say you got strength down there, but you haven\u2019t got strength down there. You\u2019ve got basket cases. I know the mother doesn\u2019t like hear this, I know the relatives don\u2019t like to hear this, but I can\u2019t help it. I just have to tell the truth. The truth is the truth. Maybe a basket case in sixteen months can be stability<\/i> which goes to show it\u2019s gone take a hell of a lot of input. A hell of a lot of input. The one kid\u2019s making it without you. You should have stayed with the one you had. That\u2019s what you really ought to have done is stayed one with\u2013 rather get into two<\/i> sick cases. You seem to find sickness. The one can\u2019t<\/i> live without you apparently. We\u2019re going to have to watch him night and day, he can\u2019t live without you. The other one could, the last one, who\u2019s more meaningful to you. He<\/i> could live without you. Very easily. (tape edit) \u2013from day to day. (Pause) Gratitude, that y\u2013 one young girl tonight is\u2013 isn\u2019t a vegetable for life, which she looked like she was going to be. They\u2019d done everything medically possible<\/i>. It was a nightmare when they came up here and told me. Somehow<\/i>, I did it. I<\/i> don\u2019t know how. Somehow I said I\u2019d do it, I would do it, I did it down there and did it and I still don\u2019t know how I did it. But I did it. And that kind of gratitude, guilt mixture\u2019s the only thing that keeps me going. It\u2019d be a terrible<\/i> thing to be in a vegetable state like that, all the rest of your life. (sigh) I\u2019ve got twelve hundred people to feel guilty for. You only got two. (Pause) I\u2019m trying to make the best of the picture. My advice is that uh\u2013 they\u2019re both too dependent, they\u2019re both immature, but the one has had far more rejection than the other, the older of them. Total uh\u2013 the other one too has been rejected though, you got into a\u2013 you got into a bag. You\u2019re into a bag. Not a very uh, very comfortable bag to be in, I\u2019m sure. You have to observe these chaps. They just\u2013 one of them wants to commit suicide by running off and doesn\u2019t know how<\/i> to do it. The other one tries to commit suicide very directly, there ain\u2019t no playing with him. When you drink gasoline, you mean business. The only thing is that everybody here better learn<\/i>, you better remind every child., you better wake them up right now and tell them that it isn\u2019t so easy to commit suicide in this place. You better tell them, better tell them, whisper it to them. It isn\u2019t so easy. You\u2019re liable to end up something different than what you thought. (Pause) And I\u2019m not trying to play any fun and games, I\u2019m telling you, it\u2019s not so easy. You better wake every soul up. And then if they made it, (clicks tongue), I\u2019m as confident as hell the mind lives on. I am confident<\/i> of it.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>(Murmurs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Don\u2019t make me love any deity, doesn\u2019t make me feel any order up there, but I am confident<\/i> the mind lives on. I know how it happened when I died. It does go on its way, and you\u2019re very much cognizant of all the people still there. Some people say it\u2019s restful. Those are the people don\u2019t have much conscience. To me it was agony because I saw my child crying for me, and I\u2019m way up above the child. And I was laying on the kitchen floor, but I\u2019m way up above Lew [Jones] and he\u2019s crowded up against the bedroom\u2013 bedroom door and I\u2019m way up there looking at him, fighting to get back in that body, and I hear Marceline [Jones] down there saying, \u201cyou got to\u2013 you got to live, J\u2013 Jim, you got to live, Jim, you got to\u201d\u2013 and she was screaming out all\u2013 I don\u2019t know what all she said. But I\u2013 I\u2013 they give me a\u2013 they gave me uh\u2013 what is it? Penicillin, and I had absolute immediate reaction. Everything stopped. Everything stopped. By the way, if you don\u2019t think gasoline too\u2013 who was it?\u2013 some sister sent a note up here and I didn\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t read one-tenth of the miracles or healing, but she said something about, she had a sister\u2013 who was it that had a uh, sister-in-law or a sister that\u2013 son or son-in-law or something that took gasoline. Eyes rolled back, turned white and died instantly. Just a little gasoline. Who was it, somebody here tonight. Yeah, there, Aurora. Sister Rodriguez. (Pause) But you see, he took a lot<\/i> of gasoline and he didn\u2019t die. And I want to tell you, he went through hours of hell. He shit<\/i> fire and he vomited fire. That\u2019s exactly<\/i> what he went through, hours. Vomiting<\/i> fire and shitting<\/i> fire and burning like hell and screaming<\/i> like something, nobody would want to be in that state. It isn\u2019t worth it. Then if you don\u2019t get out of the goddamned mess\u2013 it\u2019s too obvious. I\u2019m telling you, I don\u2019t believe in anything loving in the universe, but I do<\/i> believe the mind supersedes<\/i> the body. I mean it\u2013 it goes out of body, it lives on. I said well, I don\u2019t tell you ghost stories\u2013 I\u2019d like to tell you there\u2019s nothing<\/i> but just what we see here in this human plane. It\u2019d make the teaching of Marxism easier for me, but I cannot tell you that, because I sit in the uh, nursing home and talked a woman into dying<\/i>, who was fighting death and had been laying in a vegetable state for weeks. Breast all open with cancer and her chest cavities laid open, and she was holding on (panting sound). Eyes set. Have you ever seen anybody in a coma? You know what it is. Don\u2019t ever talk around a person in a coma like they don\u2019t know. You just don\u2019t know about the mind. From all appearances, she should have been completely<\/i> gone, the mind should have been severed<\/i>. So much had been eaten away by cancer, so much atrophy, so much dehydration. I said, \u201cYou\u2019re afraid of death, aren\u2019t you?\u201d It was Louise, wasn\u2019t it? \u201cYou\u2019re afraid of death.\u201d I said, \u201cYou<\/i> shouldn\u2019t be afraid of death. You\u2019ve done no wrong.\u201d She felt like she needed a priest. Some sensation I had. I said, \u201cYou don\u2019t need that, either. Everything\u2019s all right. And I want you to agree with me, and in five<\/i> minutes you are going to leave this body.\u201d And we were getting, I guess, a hundred dollars a week to take care of her. But I don\u2019t like to see human beings live like that. Half eaten, half s\u2013 dead, the doctor trying to keep her\u2013 keep her alive. He give her more support mechanisms. Had intravenous feedings in her body, trying to keep her alive, \u2018cause he\u2019s making money. But Jim Jones don\u2019t like to make money off of suffering. So I stood by her bedside and said, \u201cFive<\/i> minutes, Louise. Five minutes.\u201d And I want to say may every child die here, the nurses can witness that were there. A vapor lifted from her body and she ceased breathing. And I can tell you cases after cases like that. A man one time wanted to get his idiotic thing\u2013 in Indianap\u2013 Indianapolis. Edith [Cordell] will remember it\u2013 you will remember it\u2013 he wanted his uh, pipe. Who was that man? Do you remember, Edith? Old (unintelligible). Over there that\u2013 The man died and I had his funeral. Do you remember that man? (Pause) Well, I can\u2019t remember where he lived. Lived out there in the east part of uh, Indianapolis. He and his wife and I think a daughter, they were all around without a (unintelligible). He died. And he told me where his\u2013 he wanted his\u2013 he wanted his\u2013 you remember the thing you\u2013 I\u2019m talking about? The pipe\u2013 he wanted his pipe. You remember, Eva [Pugh]?<\/p>\n

Eva:<\/b> I remember that, I don\u2019t remember his name.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yeah. Uh-hmm. Boy, it was something else. So I get him his pipe<\/i>. He\u2019s in a coma. He gets his pipe in his hands, and he dies. He wants his pipe. I said I\u2019d bury the pipe with him. I didn\u2019t know what to do, \u2018cause the woman\u2013 she didn\u2019t believe in smoking\u2013 he believe\u2013 he\u2013 he\u2013 he quit smoking the pipe<\/i> even. And it was against Pentecostal teaching to smoke<\/i>. He wanted his pipe so I give him his pipe, and they buried the pipe with him. So don\u2019t play with\u2013 fun and games with trying to commit suicide. Because I\u2013 c\u2013 I did something tonight that was beyond the body\u2019s range. Doctors had tried everything. Medical science had gone to its nth degree. Coma. (Emphatic) Total, complete coma. No response. Vegetable for here, now and forever more. I said no, I won\u2019t accept that. Because I said this is a (unintelligible word), I said if she stays in a coma, I cannot stand this. That\u2019s what I\u2019m saying to myself as I walked down there. I will die. I cannot see a child stay in a coma like this. That\u2019s why I walked away patiently, but inside<\/i>, it isn\u2019t that easy. I\u2019m a skeptic and a cynic, and no matter how many victories I win, I\u2019m still a skeptic and a cynic. But there\u2019s one thing I\u2019m not cynical about. As perverse as this universe is, you know<\/i> one thing it would do, it will cause you to live long. Everything else<\/i> wicked happens in this universe, so you can be damned sure your mind won\u2019t just die, this time around. You forget too\u2013 too easily. The\u2013 the\u2013\u00a0the times you took a walk and thought you\u2019d been there before. I set up and suddenly\u2013 I\u2019ve\u2013 I\u2019ve seen this (unintelligible) before. It happens less as you get older. But in the early parts of life, how many times do you s\u2013 I know what\u2019s around the corner\u2013 you have a feeling. Deja vu. I\u2019m just saying, don\u2019t fuck<\/i> with suicide. \u2018Cause you don\u2019t get out, you get back in. I\u2019ve said this thing about Pearson, I thought that\u2019s the weirdest thing I ever\u2013ever said in my life. I said the\u2013 that Mrs. Pearson, you\u2019re going to bring back Jim Randolph\u2019s girlfriend who was so<\/i> inconsiderate that she killed<\/i> herself, hung herself so that the children would find her. And did a hell of a job doing it. There a lot of folk back there remember it. And Jim\u2013 Jim had not been\u2013 certainly he hadn\u2019t been doing it. There, raise your hands, how many know about this case? And I said, \u201cYou\u2019re going to have the baby.\u201d Doctor says she can\u2019t<\/i> have a baby. I said, \u201cYou\u2019re going to have the baby, and when it comes, it\u2019ll be a boy, and it\u2019ll be deserted by his mother.\u201d And then the wife and husband were together and they were in the church. I didn\u2019t say it to her<\/i>. I didn\u2019t say it there. I didn\u2019t say it to her. I made it very clear to a whole host of people when she wasn\u2019t present. Exactly what she did. She abandoned him. He paid a price. The same woman that hung herself, I don\u2019t doubt<\/i> one minute\u2013 I don\u2019t doubt one<\/i> minute\u2013 the same person that hung themselves with that little boy that walked in our church, those few years, before his mother took him out, and the father went his way. He ended up abandoned. (Pause) That\u2019s a hell of a price<\/i> to pay. But on the other hand, you look at the hell of a price that several of her children paid when they walked through that garage door and saw her hanging by the neck with a rope. She never\u2013 she never followed me. She followed Jim Randolph. That\u2019s always a danger of some people, they follow love and they follow the smell of vagina or penis. But they won\u2019t follow communism embodied in me or embodied in others that are trying to bring it out to its clearest manifestation. They\u2019re always<\/i> following something else. And so she ended up in a bad way. She hun\u2013 she\u2013 I don\u2019t know what\u2013 how she\u2019ll go this time. The woman with the little boy. I guess by\u2013 by now maybe he\u2019d be what? Ten years old. Something like that. Don\u2019t mess with suicide.<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t tell you fun and games. I tell you what I believe<\/i>. I don\u2019t believe in ordered universe. I don\u2019t believe any love\u2019s up there that I\u2019ve been able to perceive \u2018cause it is absolutely<\/i> unloving, that two out of three babies in the world that are going to bed hungry. But I do<\/i> believe that the mind for some diabolical<\/i> reason will<\/i> survive the body, and you will accomplish nothing<\/i> by trying to kill yourself. I\u2019ve lived through it many times. But sometime you ought to listen to me. Hush, people behind me, hush. Sometime you people ought to start listening to me. I could save you a hell of a lot of pain. I coulda told<\/i> you that was a bad trip you were taking. If you hada even consulted me, I could have told you how serious<\/i> a trip this was. I coulda lifted that guilt from you. Now we not only have a\u2013\u00a0have guilt<\/i>, we\u2019ve got to have absolute<\/i> observation of those two. Absolute and complete and total observation. Those two don\u2019t<\/i> understand. I don\u2019t know why Johnson wouldn\u2019t<\/i>. He took wood alcohol and they found him several hours. And I drug his ass up and walked him through, after taking wood<\/i> alcohol. Nobody should have lived through that<\/i> mess.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd: <\/b>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You\u2019d think by now \u2013 lie \u2013 yes. You\u2019d think by now, he\u2019d have gotten the picture. But he hasn\u2019t. And you\u2019re intricately tied up in his life, and whether you can handle that or not, will depend on how much a socialist you are. What I\u2019d do right now is stay away from both of them, for the time being, until we can make a more objective evaluation of them, \u2018cause you\u2019ve got sick\u2013 two sick people. Very sick people. And tomorrow I\u2019m going to let you off. (tape edit) (unintelligible word) by how the media play to their mind, how pop destroys our\u2013 our thinking ability. You know\u2013 you know you\u2013 what you saw tonight? Hmm?<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>(Murmurs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Remember the news you saw tonight?<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd: <\/b>Yes, Dad.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>News what you get tomorrow. Very likely Monday will be the day, but if there\u2019s no interest shown in anything<\/i> creative tomorrow \u2013 and I mean creative, you can be out putting some food, growing some food in your yard \u2013 but there\u2019s a lot of indifference, and foolishness and running around and carelessness. We\u2019ll call a test tomorrow evening. You hear what I\u2019m saying?<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/b> Yes, Dad.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd: <\/b>Yes, Dad.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yes, what is it?<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>(Scattered voices)<\/p>\n

End of tape<\/b><\/p>\n

Tape originally posted April 2008<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1, Pt. 2). (Note: This tape was transcribed by Vicki Perry. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.) Jones: What\u2019s going on in here? […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":207,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-27437","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27437","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=27437"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27437\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":68747,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27437\/revisions\/68747"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=27437"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}