{"id":27463,"date":"2013-06-16T00:20:19","date_gmt":"2013-06-16T00:20:19","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/alternativejonestown.com\/?page_id=27463"},"modified":"2020-12-28T09:04:03","modified_gmt":"2020-12-28T17:04:03","slug":"q454","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=27463","title":{"rendered":"Q454 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here.<\/a>
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>, Pt. 2<\/a>).<\/p>\n

(Note:<\/strong> This tape was transcribed by Vicki Perry. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)<\/em><\/p>\n

(Music plays in background throughout much of tape, making comprehension of much conversation \u2013 especially that of audience members \u2013 difficult.) <\/em><\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(unintelligible)\u2013 marriages. You don\u2019t know the grief, you don\u2019t know the heartache, you don\u2019t know the pain<\/em>, uh, so please don\u2019t\u2013 don\u2019t glorify it. Because I\u2013 I\u2013 I can tell you, I\u2019m telling you to ease your mind<\/em>, that uh, most of you here are combinations. (Unintelligible word) agreements that they will stay together for the cause\u2019s sake. Now do you understand what I mean? Okay.<\/p>\n

Judy Merriam: <\/strong>I understand that. And then as far as the child business go, I have\u2013 it\u2019s not that \u2013I already wanted to have children of my own, and I never did. And\u2013 (Pause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Hmm? (unintelligible) about not having a child when\u2013<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>It\u2019s stupid. It\u2019s really stupid because\u2013 Well, one thing is stupid.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Why?<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>I think that that\u2013 I mean\u2013 I\u2019m gone tell you in one thing. Uh, I\u2019m getting older. Another thing is, I don\u2019t feel my genes\u2013 you know\u2013 I\u2019m looking at all these points\u2013 it\u2019s just\u2013 you know, I really couldn\u2019t\u2013 I can\u2019t stand kids that much. I like children, but I mean, you know, (Unintelligible word) to have them for 24 hours, I couldn\u2019t take it.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>I\u2019m afraid<\/em> you\u2013 I\u2019m afraid<\/em>, darlin\u2019, that your talents are not in that area, and if you had a child, you would be mighty sorry if you had a child after a while.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>But\u2013 Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones: \u2018<\/strong>Cause a child would be\u2013 a child with the present level of attention that you have and disturbance and uh, anxiety (Unintelligible word) impatience, the child would be a uh\u2013 emotionally disturbed child. I think I can talk blunt to you.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Believe that.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>So why bring another emotionally disturbed one in, ya know?<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. I don\u2019t believe in doing that. I\u2019ve worked these things out with myself and I get over it. You know? I don\u2019t follow up on\u2013 on uh, something like that.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>But I\u2013 I think most of us uh\u2013 we\u2019d have to take a sharp look at the bringing in of children as to whether it\u2019s been a blessing<\/em> or\u2013 or not. So you\u2019re not alone<\/em> in that. But if you want a child<\/em>, uh, there are, I suppose, ways to do that. Not to bring \u2018em in, either. I saw a little child being advertised in Oakland, a very beautiful black child, I\u2019ve spoke to a couple of people about it on that uh\u2013 Someone called<\/em> me about it. Their office (Stumbles over words)\u2013 the name of that agency. Hmm?<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>(Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know. I think it was. A little\u2013 little black child\u2013 (Unintelligible word) I saw it\u2013 tur\u2013 tur\u2013 tur\u2013 they told me to turn the TV on and I saw it. Saw the child. Channel two. It was after a movie\u2013 movie had just finished. Dialing for Dollars<\/em>, yeah, that\u2019s it. Channel two and the\u2013 the child\u2013 uh, was uh, part black and white, and he\u2019d been pushed from home to home to home. And he had numbers like that. He was such a gentle child. It showed in his face. I mean he had such uh, potential, I thought. So someone could look in\u2013 you have to have some (Pause) (Unintelligible word) situation that meets the approval of welfare<\/em>, and it\u2019s a little difficult up here to get by some of these welfare people, but anyway, uh, you start uh\u2013 there would be too much they could do to block it, I\u2019d think. They do<\/em> place children, on occasion, with single people. They\u2013 they prefer not, but I think they\u2019re making, uh\u2013 bending<\/em> to do that. But I don\u2019t know if that would be your answer<\/em>, child, I really don\u2019t.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>I\u2013 I rather be doing other things\u2013 I wouldn\u2019t want to be tied down like that.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, someone ought to look into that child. Someone in uh\u2013 someone ought to look into that child. Yes? I think they\u2019re years. I think (Stumbles over words)\u2013 the agency who\u2019d find maybe some other child\u2013 somebo\u2013 but the agencies are\u2013 they\u2013 they\u2019re going to be hung up on years.<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>(Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>We\u2019ll\u2013 we\u2019ll keep that in mind. We\u2019ll keep that in mind. I think they would\u2013 the agency would want someone younger. Oughta circulate that through and tell them to look for a little mulatto\u2013 mulatto child who\u2019d been pushed from foster home to foster home. He had curly hair and uh, lovely olive skin. But the most difficult to place are the mixed, you see. He\u2013 he almost looked white<\/em>, in some ways, but his hair was so beautiful, you know, that uh, you could tell his blackness more in his hair. But nobody wanted him, either way. He was shoved from place to place. (Pause) Before you think about having children, we ought to explore<\/em> those kind of possibilities. All right, uh, you think she\u2019s competing<\/em> with you. Is there any truth to that, Mary?<\/p>\n

Mary Wotherspoon: <\/strong>I don\u2019t\u2013 (Tsks) Why would I compete<\/em> with her?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, that\u2019s what I\u2019m asking you.<\/p>\n

Wotherspoon: <\/strong>\u2013 we\u2019re two separate individuals. There\u2019s no reason.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>I wouldn\u2019t think<\/em> so.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>But having to give her job. She wants to work back at where I\u2019m working now, and she resented in having to give up that and then\u2013 then I kept mine. And she didn\u2019t really go for that.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n

Wotherspoon: <\/strong>I said I enjoyed my job, and I would give anything<\/em> for an eight-hour job where I could walk away from my responsibilities after eight hours is over with.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>And I think if you had the administration of that entire home<\/em>, Judy, you\u2019d understand what she means<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>I\u2013 (unintelligible under Jones)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You\u2019ve got to budget and you\u2019ve got to maintain the\u2013 the books<\/em> and all that. That\u2019s what she\u2019s saying<\/em>. It\u2019s just as simple\u2013 it\u2019d be simple to be back in that kind of work.<\/p>\n

Wotherspoon: <\/strong>I never said anything about the medicine program to you. I don\u2019t ever remember saying anything.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>You did mention it one time.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, even if she did want<\/em> to, that isn\u2019t a resentment towards you<\/em>. She is college<\/em> material, she\u2019s quite uh, educal person who makes\u2013 she does ex\u2013 ex\u2013 extre\u2013 extremely<\/em> uh, high work achievement<\/em> levels. Extremely<\/em> high and she gave it up at more of a sacrifice than most young people would do<\/em>. \u2018Cause she had proven<\/em> her college ability. But she\u2019s doing<\/em> it, you know. That\u2019s the point. She is doing it.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Going to college in evenings. So, that is an out of field for her.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Judy. My uh\u2013 it may be an out<\/em>. It may be an out<\/em>. But she\u2019s got all of that work on<\/em> her. She\u2019s not going on to a college (unintelligible) capacity. It\u2019s handicapping her considerably. It\u2019s going to take her a long, long<\/em> time to be able to finish at this rate. So you resented her in the con\u2013 I think the resentment\u2019s on your<\/em> part.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>And her going to college\u2013 it\u2019s just feels like\u2013 she feels like she\u2019s trapped and she can\u2019t get out and she resents me having the freedom that I have of being out, to going to work, and then whatever.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Oh, you\u2019re all wet. Now will you shut your damn mouth and get over there and do work and work like you can?<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Okay, but I do\u2013 I don\u2019t think it\u2019s right for her to call me up at work and then I just feel that I had to\u2013 because it\u2019s no place to discuss problems.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/strong>(unintelligible) \u2013Judy didn\u2019t show up when\u2013 (unintelligible)\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Didn\u2019t do the chores<\/em>, I agree<\/em> that you p\u2013 uh, people shouldn\u2019t be debating on the\u2013 on the job. I agree<\/em> but uh, if you go off and leave<\/em> something from moodiness<\/em> uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>It wasn\u2019t moodiness\u2013 I had planned on\u2013 on uh\u2013 I\u2019m sorry. I had planned on doing the refrigerator when I came home\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Why don\u2019t you leave a note<\/em> to make it known what you were going to do? Why didn\u2019t you say a word<\/em> to her?<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>She was asleep on the floor in the living room and I didn\u2019t want to dis\u2013 I didn\u2019t know if that would disturb her because the refrigerator is pretty close. (Pause) Mary, there was\u2013 it\u2019s n\u2013 not that far away.<\/p>\n

Wotherspoon: <\/strong>You could have closed the door. You could have closed the door. And beside the fact, if it woulda woke me up, I\u2019d been glad to see you doing it. You know, I\u2013 I don\u2019t care if I\u2019m woken up.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Uh, I wonder why you sleep in uh\u2013 in the living room when there was no one in the bedroom, that huge bedroom, and\u2013 but me when I came home. And the telephone, you didn\u2019t sleep by the telephone, \u2018cause the telephone was (Unintelligible word). I mean, uh, really, you know\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2013 this is really ridic\u2013<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> (unintelligible, interrupting Merriam)\u2013 the kitchen.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>This is\u2013 I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I think you\u2019re\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>How often does she do it?<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Sometimes\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>How often does she do it? How often does she sleep on the floor?<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know, \u2018cause I don\u2019t keep track\u2013 I mean\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well wha\u2013 what\u2013 what\u2013 what were\u2013 what are you trying to drive at? What is your problem\u2013 What\u2019s so\u2013 What are you trying to drive at? She\u2019s sleeping on the floor. So what\u2013 what?<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Waiting out there to see\u2013 (Unintelligible word)\u2013 to check up? I don\u2019t know. I just feel like she\u2019s testing me out or something, but I didn\u2019t\u2013 I didn\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>She got all this time to test you out? (Pause) Judy, you\u2019re quite a good worker, but you are paranoid to the nutty degree. And you need to just recognize that your paranoia is way out of hand. She got enormous<\/em> load. If you don\u2019t believe it, ask (unintelligible) to manage. It is enormous load.<\/p>\n

Man\u2019s voice in background:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>She\u2019s a young woman, and it is<\/em> confining, and she could be through college in a snap which now she\u2019s got (unintelligible) and she won\u2019t be able to.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>I understand that.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Okay. Well, will you just get some of this in control so that we can\u2013 What about this eating too much? You want to get on that? You were square by square five by five one time. And that uh\u2013 Don\u2019t\u2013 don\u2019t develop any of that patterns<\/em> again. You\u2019re too\u2013 You owe it to the cause<\/em> not to do that.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>I did work (unintelligible word) yesterday and today.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, that\u2019s good. And I see you\u2019re gaining. And when you start gaining, you\u2019re completely out of compliance. I never saw anything like you when you get\u2013 when you get on that thing.<\/p>\n

Wotherspoon:<\/strong> She emptied a whole cookie jar in one night.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What\u2019s that? What\u2019s that? What\u2019d you say, Judy?<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>It was in a weekend. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, did you eat\u2013 did you empty a whole cookie jar?<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Yeah, but\u2013 I don\u2019t know if you guys\u2013 (unintelligible under crying)<\/p>\n

Scattered in background: <\/strong>(laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Oh, laughing. Laughing. So, so, so they laugh. The laugh gonna hurt?<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>(unintelligible under crying)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You don\u2019t \u2013 you not been brought up here but\u2013 in years.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>(unintelligible) It\u2019s a\u2013 It\u2019s a cycle, and I\u2013 I\u2019m not complaining about being brought up in here. An\u2013 an\u2013 it\u2019s just that I could\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Fact is, the simple (unintelligible word) that happened, if it\u2019s unpleasant enough, it may affect you not to eat. Only way you can shock people out of eating habits usually someone\u2013 some electro-shock or something unpleasant. You got to just uh\u2013 or you can give yourself permission by saying, \u201cIt looks like shit, it looks like shit\u201d or mix something with it. If you have some food that bothers you, mix something bad tasting with it. And you have to cure yourself only<\/em> by that kind of reaction. Some of these people are laughing\u2013 just (Stumbles over words)\u2013 make you feel<\/em> bad. They\u2019re not laughing at you. They\u2019re laughing just to relax. What?<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Just like an alcoholic and I\u2019m trying to\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(unintelligible)\u2013 I think\u2013 if your eating habit in some ways is worse. It uh\u2013 to fill up, to fill up, it\u2019s a terrible thing. We sympathize with you, but you can\u2019t uh\u2013 you can\u2019t do that. You can\u2019t get some melon on hand, we can get celery on hand, we can get uh, various things like that so that you can\u2013 if this compulsion hits you that you can\u2019t handle it yourself<\/em>, we maybe can work\u2013 work it out with some counseling<\/em>. (Pause) The point is I hate for you to get up\u2013 give up and go back<\/em> when you could do so much help\u2013 you keep things clean around here. If you do a little bit of that there and help in that area, to keep that place beautified, you could help our cause far more than you could imagine, Judy. \u2018Cause it\u2019s uh\u2013 it\u2019s the one point we haven\u2019t had enough time to get it up to par. (Pause) You want to help the cause, don\u2019t you?<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Yes, and I wanted\u2013 I offered to do the washing and ironing, and whenever I start doing something regularly, then she<\/em> starts doing it and then I get, you know, I have to look for uh\u2013 I know there\u2019s plenty of work to do, but I mean I just feel like she\u2019s taking too much away from me, and it\u2019s not\u2013 and then\u2013 I don\u2019t know, I just\u2013 you know, I mean\u2013 that I would\u2013 I enjoy doing that\u2013 it\u2019s a uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Like to wash? The washing?<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Washing and folding\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, why don\u2019t you let (Unintelligible word) do your wash? Why don\u2019t you let her do washing?<\/p>\n

Wotherspoon: <\/strong>She\u2019s got regular chores, and washing I usually do during the day time when she\u2019s not home, you know, to get it out of the way. I can\u2019t save it for nighttime, I gotta do it right away when it gets off the bed\u2013 (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Yeah, that\u2019s right, she\u2019d have<\/em> to\u2013<\/p>\n

Wotherspoon: <\/strong>I can\u2019t let it sit around.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>She couldn\u2019t let urine\u2013 she couldn\u2019t let the\u2013 she couldn\u2019t let bed clothing sit around.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Uh\u2013 I mean, like I could do it when I come home at night. I watered the lawn\u2013 it takes\u2013 I mean the garden\u2013 it takes about three hours. Did that almost every night. I\u2019m not\u2013 I\u2019m not\u2013 I\u2019m not saying that I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m a hard worker\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>She couldn\u2019t in the summer\u2013 she couldn\u2019t in the summer keep all those uh\u2013 keep all that clothing<\/em> waiting around<\/em> there \u2018til you got home at night<\/em>. Yes?<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> Umm, I help Mary with the washing in the day time.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> As Mary changed the beds and bathed the patients, then I put the clothes in the washing, and\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>That\u2019s the way it should be.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> And then I fold the clothing, and if there\u2019s anything left<\/em>, usually we leave for Judy to put the clothing away. Put them up in their proper places. But I know that Judy works eight hours a day, and so I try to take on a lot to save Judy from doing too<\/em> much at night, so she can get some rest.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>So you must be\u2013 you must ask \u2013 good of you \u2013 \u2018cause Judy\u2019s never been lazy. But you also must not uh, take on things rec\u2013 recognizing your own limitation of years<\/em>. Well, I don\u2019t<\/em> know uh, what can be done about the\u2013 the washing. I don\u2019t<\/em> see that they can let that washing wait \u2018til the evening time.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Uh, I know, now she tells me certain jobs to do. I wouldd like to keep my days to do them like I should here. Refrigerator, stove, twice a week\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Participate in this, or you\u2019re going to get more<\/em> counseling. We do this day after day, night after night. Every night in Los Angeles, all day Saturday night. So now participate in this. Everyone needs to know a little bit about their problems. Then you can\u2013 it\u2019ll help you understand<\/em> what it means to run a church. (Pause) You\u2019ll have more empathy for other counselors. Go ahead.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Let\u2019s see\u2013 Oh. I\u2013 I said refrigerators and stoves. I was trying to keep them clean at least at least twice a week, you know, just checking on them. They should be in good condition, clean\u2013 except the one refrigerator in the (unintelligible) in our house and uh, then she sets up the schedule, she wants\u2013 like she wants me to clean it, on one day, the refrigerators, then on, you know\u2013 and I\u2013 I mean I felt I did better doing things on my<\/em> routine, and then\u2013 and then\u2013<\/p>\n

Wotherspoon:<\/strong> (unintelligible)\u2013 clean the refrigerators, \u2018cause I go shopping on Thursdays and I need it clean\u2013 (unintelligible)\u2013 I want it clean before\u2013 (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Clean it on either Sunday<\/em> or if I\u2019m\u2013 af\u2013 after the weekend or Monday and Thursday.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Where\u2019s Alice [Inghram]?<\/p>\n

Wotherspoon: <\/strong>Judy, I think uh, the hospital has got to decide how things are\u2013 are done and\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>We don\u2019t always have to\u2013 We have to uh, run<\/em> things according to uh, standards<\/em> that are set from such nursing homes, and you can\u2019t let things go till the person that had been cleaning work. So you ought to be glad to just do the things that\u2013 and there ought to be some extra time to clean the floors and polish and do something like that to help beautify that place.<\/p>\n

Wotherspoon: <\/strong>I think uh, we\u2019ll help set up a schedule and\u2013 and it will be abided by, by what it says. Uh, because that\u2019s what we all have to do. We can\u2019t pick and choose what we want to do. We have to do what is necessary to do. So we will go over it, taking into consideration everybody\u2019s needs. But you\u2019re going to have to understand that you have to do what is necessary to<\/em> be done with what is there to be done. But we\u2019ll get together on that. Okay? Thank you.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Will you be able to\u2013 will you be able to accommodate with this?<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>Yeah, I\u2019ll tr\u2013 I will.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You\u2019ll try? Now look, you\u2019re too (Unintelligible word). You\u2019re too\u2013 you\u2019re too\u2013 that\u2019s the (unintelligible word) about moodiness or nervousness. You ought to do it with a little more patience<\/em>. A little bit more accommodation sound in your voice. Sounds like snippy.<\/p>\n

Merriam: <\/strong>The uh\u2013 council works, I will abide by their rules. I (unintelligible word) uh, because that way, then it\u2019s a (Unintelligible word) for the whole household and\u2013 and there\u2019s no question, you know\u2013 (voice fades)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>All right, then council, take up the matters. It\u2019s all been fair. That\u2019s the best thing to do. Entire staff. (Pause) (deep sigh) Financial (Unintelligible word)\u2013 I want to hear from. (Pause) Well, it\u2019s the first of the month<\/em> and uh, something is amok. Something is wrong. Does anybody here that has anything that you have not turned in, in way of commitment or pledge\u2013 (tape edit) \u2013offering that has been. Get up and say \u201cI\u2019m giving you uh, five dollars, \u2018cause I didn\u2019t have five dollars, or twenty dollars or fifteen dollars on the fifteenth of last month and I should\u2019ve give and I\u2019m going to do it now.\u201d Shit, just giving it\u2013 you know. Just don\u2019t go through all that. Just\u2013 just don\u2019t\u2013 don\u2019t take all the time. Some of you, it takes all so long to get around to five dollars. Just say I\u2019ve got five dollars. On the pledge. You\u2019ll say, I have five dollars on the pledge I made last month at seven o\u2019clock at night when your ass was tired.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones: \u2013<\/strong>just say I got five dollars on pledge.<\/p>\n

Man in crowd:<\/strong> Yeah!<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You think that\u2019s silly, but you listen to some of this. You take these offerings and listen to some of this, and that\u2019s just exactly the way it comes. I made a five dollar pledge and I\u2013 I may say\u2013 I made one on the third and I made one on the seventh, and I\u2019m paying five dollars on the one I made on the third, and I\u2019ll pay you ten dollars on the one I made by the seventh if I don\u2019t have fifteen dollars to pay you (unintelligible). That\u2019s the way it comes out, and nobody understands what you\u2019re talking about. And how many have heard something just about that silly coming from uh, off the floor?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (agrees)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Time and again. I don\u2019t want to hear<\/em> that, \u2018cause you tell me five on the third and ten on the seventh, by the time you get through with all that, nobody knows what you\u2019re talking about. Just write. If you can\u2019t write, we understand. Some of the most brilliant people. Ann, tell the\u2013 one\u2013 one of the ushers, they\u2019ll write it down for you, they\u2019ll be glad to do that. Then I\u2019ll read it all. I read<\/em> them, every blessed one anyway. So why do I want to hear it twice<\/em>? \u2018Cause I know<\/em> it\u2019s important that you le\u2013 let me know and that you know that I know. Well I\u2013 I will certainly say something to you if I\u2019m questioning what you\u2019re doing. Anyone else that has anything to give?<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>\u2013but that there\u2019s no proof confirming what I said that all the grain had been used up. And that\u2019s Senator [Hubert H.] Humphrey, is it? Yeah. Governor\u2013 I can\u2019t read it. Anyway, s\u2013 uh, several people here that confirmed that they\u2019re all<\/em> out of food. (Pause) Twenty. (tape edit) I spoke it with a truth nonetheless. Please don\u2019t in the future, give me such ex\u2013 explanations. You that are faithful, we have to put up with it\u2013 the people that don\u2019t come to Wednesday who are not really of the household of faith or don\u2019t come to Sunday\u2019s special meetings, uh, we uh\u2013 we understand that from them. But if you<\/em> will help me by not going into these elaborate explanations. And some of you are sitting right here that did it. So you know who you are. Just say quickly, I\u2019m paying five dollars on a pledge or something, \u2018cause if you write it out, I\u2019ll see it anyway. All I\u2019m interested in at the moment is to count<\/em> the money. You see? And you can put all you want to in writing, I\u2019ll read it, every bit. Five. How many\u2019ll\u2013 (tape edit) \u2013by the fact and I hope everybody in security hears this. Because you\u2019ve got people sitting up in a tower. Women in a tower. Older men in a tower. And no means of transmitting to the front part of this office. It\u2019s been broke for days. Don\u2019t impress me by closing these curtains. If you were really concerned about the body, you would put the focal point\u2013 you would put uh\u2013 you\u2019ve got some new uh\u2013 I\u2019ve got uh, sh\u2013 uh, shades. You\u2019da had it over here often. It doesn\u2019t take very much to get it and put it up. But don\u2019t impress me by cutting off my air\u2013 my people. That\u2019s uh\u2013 there\u2013 there\u2013 there I sit. I want air<\/em> in here. And all you had to do was get a little cheap shade and put up back there, but you don\u2019t think about it, so don\u2019t impress me by not, uh, uh, leaving windows open. I hope I make myself very<\/em> clear. And I am chagrined and disturbed and upset that you would put somebody in the tower. Why argo up in the tower for? What if somebody come up there with a\u2013 a force of people? What would we do? They have no weapon, they have no means of communicating to the front. What could they do? Just sit there and scream. (Pause) By God, I\u2019ll tell ya, you better get sophisticated. I was talking to the chief of police today and\u2013 about different methods, and he got some of the detectives there letting us know sophisticated way of\u2013 ways they\u2019ve got of getting in. But we\u2019re trying to do as much as we can about<\/em> it, but at least<\/em> we could get the things that we have to work<\/em>. Who\u2019s gonna see that\u2013 that transmitter or whatever the hell it was for out there is going to get fixed? Hmm?<\/p>\n

Man in background:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Okay, Joe. You taking notes down there? (Pause) I\u2019m gone get mighty pissed, now folks, I\u2019m gone get mighty pissed. I have said\u2013 Now where is the person that\u2019s taking notes? Well, let me know. Let me know. Let me know who it is, so I don\u2019t have to see through a wall. (Pause) You all give the impression somehow that I\u2019m God, which is not\u2013 (unintelligible) She\u2019s not writing, she\u2019s not writing. So she (Unintelligible word) I see through the wall. I have to see through here to know she\u2019s writing. Tell<\/em> me who\u2019s writing. (Pause) Who else will sacrifice too? (unintelligible) Sister Conray had given five hundred dollars to the church. That was the week before, and she had to go to Oklahoma, \u2018cause her relatives were dying. One of them died and the other one was dying. And we raised three hundred there. You\u2019da thought no one had any money at all, but fifty of us, or sixty of us, got three hundred together. So please, if you care now, give two. By the way, I don\u2019t want no\u2013 I don\u2019t want any more itemized budget. In\u2013 In dollars (Stumbles over words)\u2013 specifically tell me if it\u2019s dollars or Guyanese. And it makes a lot of difference. One time it\u2019s just a dollar sign. I don\u2019t know whether to talk about dollars or Guyanese. I have to worry about every expense that goes out of here, and then they spend so crazy it\u2019s something else. Appreciate you, brother, coming up tonight, say, well, we\u2019ve got to go down to Los Angeles, one of the workers to straighten out matters on this trip. I said, can\u2019t we get somebody to do it down there without paying the fare with an airplane trip down there and an airplane back. And I just can\u2019t keep up with it these days. It\u2019s just so much going out that uh, no matter how\u2013 what I raise, it just seems it goes out fast as I can raise it. And it\u2019s not for foolishness. And I appreciate that uh, brother Carter was the one tonight said, well, I won\u2019t do it, I\u2019ll try to find some other way. It may be more hours of work. Because people won\u2019t follow through<\/em> down there. And that\u2019s the truth. Some of you have to send\u2013 we got the best of Los Angeles \u2013 except a few little steady ones that stay down \u2013 the best of Los Angeles moved up here<\/em>. We got a lot of followers<\/em> down in Los Angeles, but very few workers<\/em>. Unfortunately. Anybody else gonna give two, to help us out? We\u2019re far<\/em> short of what we need.<\/p>\n

Scattered voices: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Shades down. Electronic equipment bought that won\u2019t work, and I\u2019ve been wantin\u2013 and it goes on for days<\/em>. Goes on for days, it doesn\u2019t work. Looks like somebody\u2019d make enough noise<\/em> about that. One or two people can\u2019t get everything done about this. How many been using that tower since that thing hasn\u2019t worked? Didn\u2019t you ever think\u2013 uh, didn\u2019t you ever think about it, that what good would it do you to be up there? (Pause) Uh, I think a thing like that goes more than one service, it ought to be brought up publicly if there isn\u2019t something done about it.<\/p>\n

Voice in background:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Voice in background:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>He says, the organist says that they weren\u2019t working when she used them either.<\/p>\n

Voice in background:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, uh, security meeting, uh, Jim. Jim, in security meeting, you\u2019ll resolve this, will you, people.<\/p>\n

Voice in background:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Two. The las\u2013<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Woman\u2019s voice: \u2013<\/strong>(Unintelligible word) foot.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Cheers and applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>That\u2019s pretty good for eighty-six. You haven\u2019t even got a corn on your foot.<\/p>\n

Man in background: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>We would like to thank uh, Justine Anderson and her husband, Arnold Anderson for faithful and consistent being on their security post every<\/em> weekend night from twelve to three. They have not missed one<\/em> night and surely deserve praise. Are they present? Yes, back there.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Scattered applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>That\u2019s them back there. Stand up there. Keep standing \u2018til they see you. Keep standing. They have not missed one<\/em> night and surely deserve praise for carrying such a (Unintelligible word) heavy responsibility, with many other duties. We do thank you. Jessie Lynchner of San Francisco deserves praise. Present? If they\u2019re present, please stand, automatically. And see that it is mentioned again. For consistently volunteering her time to help with church projects whenever needed. She\u2019s always<\/em> in good spirits and is a good help. She volunteers time at Marie Sadler\u2019s rest home. Helps Sandy Jones at her project\u2013 w\u2013 with her projects and uh, will soon be helping Ruby Carroll at her shop that\u2019s being set up for the benefit of the cause. Now see that that\u2019s read again. The Shulars [David and Janet Shular] are\u2013 the Shulars have been praised that their home is always open, I don\u2019t seem to find it\u2013 but that\u2013 that their home is open, and they\u2019re always so helpful to people when they come and have needs and they\u2019re always friendly to receive people. We\u2019re very appreciative of that.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Scattered applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>We wish to\u2013 The children\u2019s home wants to thank all church\u2019s who\u2013 junior high school members who came out and helped weed our gardens. Thank you for your hard work and cooperative spirit. We welcome and appreciate your help anytime. How many went out to help with the children\u2019s home? How many of you here helped? Stand up, please, as is always the function, stand up. How many helped<\/em>? I saw a young woman back there that held her hand up. I said stand<\/em> up. I mi\u2013 I demand<\/em> cooperation, even for praise. Your humility is admired, but I\u2019ve got to have cooperation. Is she the only one that helped? Well, thank you. Thank you very much.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause) (Pause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Dave [Shular] shared a home in San Francisco with others. To walk into your home is a pleasure, because your teachings are sharing joyfully\u2013 joyfully is felt. In\u2013 In an unselfish, unvibrations confront you. The children and teenagers who live there feel free because they are in the home of two people, black and white, married, who live your teachings as opposed to talk. We do commend you for that.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It\u2019s good to see Stephan Jones helping to clean the San Francisco Temple. Sunday morning early. You demonstrate your teachings of equality and should be commended. (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause) (Pause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(unintelligible, away from microphone) Keep these, what I believe. I got so much in here. (Pause) You hear what I said? Did you hear what I said about the biologicals, the gener\u2013 the chemicals now that can be given (Unintelligible word) based on the uh, proteins that are in our black and Indian nation? And would kill off just the blacks and the Indians? This is being discussed extensively and in the paper today, it was referred to earlier this week in the Chronicle<\/em>. Did you hear what I said? Now, everyone<\/em> should be working hard<\/em> for the Promised Land. And that\u2019s madness, folks. You don\u2019t know what<\/em> they\u2019re cooking up when they uh\u2013 If they admit that much to you, you can bet it\u2019s a lot more. (Pause) How many turned in their voting uh, slip today? How many could\u2019ve<\/em> voted and did not? (Pause) Why was it too late? What do you mean too late? Huh?<\/p>\n

Voice in background: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, I\u2013 I\u2013 I (Unintelligible word) instructed the secretaries uh, to see that this was done. Now what\u2013<\/p>\n

Voice in background: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>I\u2019m not talking about registration. I\u2013 I called especially the day of\u2013 of voting and said I want to see that we had to coordinate to get everybody in here. What do you\u2013 The whole household didn\u2019t get to vote? (Pause) Who did not vote? What\u2019d you say, Jewel?<\/p>\n

Voice in background: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Female voice in background: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You weren\u2019t registered? Well, get registered. One\u2013 one\u2013 when will you be able to register? Next week? How many did not vote? How man\u2013 uh, due to registration, if it was not registration, you don\u2019t need to hold your hand up again. How many could\u2019ve voted and did not vote? (Pause) That means you\u2019ll have to register again. Why\u2013 why, Chris, did you not vote? (Pause)<\/p>\n

Chris Rozynko:<\/strong> We were depending on Jane Mutschmann\u2019s car to come back so that we could leave again for the valley to vote, and uh, when I got home, her car wasn\u2019t there and uh, I waited for a while for\u2013 for Kathy Grauman to come back and then use her car. Finally, the car got ba\u2013 got back but it was\u2013 it was broken down, so we couldn\u2019t take that and uh, it was getting\u2013 let\u2019s see, all the cars in the dormitories were busted down also. And uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Every car in San Francisco bun\u2013 busted down?<\/p>\n

Rozynko:<\/strong> Every car in our dormitories.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Was every car in San Francisco busted down?<\/p>\n

Rozynko:<\/strong> That\u2019s\u2013 I could<\/em> have uh, made more of an effort to get ahold of other cars, which I didn\u2019t do, uh\u2013 mainly\u2013 mainly\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Rozynko:<\/strong> It was in San Francisco. Mainly though, uh, uh, I waited \u2018til the last moment, you know, before I really uh, took the time to find another car. And that\u2019s why we didn\u2019t (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Those votes<\/em> were mighty important. If we hadn\u2019t had the right, the thing happened that I projected Sunday night here<\/em> that we do, we\u2019d be in real trouble<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Woman\u2019s voice:<\/strong> Uh, why\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Uh, by the way, you don\u2019t tell anyone ho\u2013 how you voted when you go out of here, you understand? Fortunately one went just exactly like I said it would go, if you went and did it and some of you griped about doing it, but it worked out.<\/p>\n

Woman\u2019s voice:<\/strong> I think those of you that were clear in San Francisco should have obtained absentee ballots being in school, rather than uh, trying to spend money on gas to come all the way up here.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>It\u2019s very easy to get an absentee ballot. Next time let\u2019s do that, hey? (Pause) You know, Agnes, who is from Africa, who has been used to being waited on, been the tribal chief\u2019s daughter, she\u2019s studying to be a nurse and she studies ten to eleven hours a day. She\u2019s done many math problems that weren\u2019t assigned just for practice, and I asked her teachers if she would do special projects for extra credit. English is a foreign language to her, but in spite of this, her grades are very good grades. Very high grades. Agnes used to have servants<\/em>, so of course she didn\u2019t want to do chores. When she heard about how servants in America are cheated and mistreated, she changed overnight to do her chores promptly and willingly. She even reminds me about mine, and that\u2019s good. I mentioned that Sunday night. I think it\u2019s good to mention it again. Is Agnes here tonight? (Pause) Oh, yes, this is exam week. You know, the chief\u2013 but we\u2019re\u2013 we\u2019re sponsoring this young lady from Africa here. But we\u2019re glad, \u2018cause she was\u2013 she was spoiled rotten when she came to this society, as they are often who are of the privileged class back in Africa. But she\u2019s got\u2013 gotten a hold<\/em> of it, they say, and doing\u2013 had so many fears too. They were afraid that\u2013 She was afraid of everything because she hadn\u2019t been in contact with life. And so she\u2019s made real growth. And we can\u2019t get some of our<\/em> folk to do ten or eleven hours of anything<\/em> in a day, much less her studies alone<\/em> ten to eleven hours a day. And we all knew we were servants when we started. Didn\u2019t<\/em> we, honey? (Pause) Caroline Coleman should be praised for being the only one quiet on bus eight coming back from LA. She was the only out of fifty people, Violet Jones says this. What do you mean the only one out of fifty people? Ought to stop<\/em> that bus. Who is\u2013 where is Caroline Coleman? She here? Let\u2019s study\u2013 Violet Jones? Let\u2019s study this. What\u2019s the meaning of letting fifty people get carrying on and there\u2019s only one person quiet? Hostesses are supposed to do<\/em> something about that. You can\u2019t do it, get ahold of the next<\/em> bus. Get a hold of the lead<\/em> bus. We\u2019ll stop<\/em>. We don\u2019t go all the way back with fifty people carrying on. That\u2019s anarchy. That\u2019s revolution<\/em>. Without a cause. People trying to get home and rest that night with only one person true. I\u2013 I\u2019m appreciative<\/em> of her being true to the principle<\/em>, but I\u2019m sorry<\/em> to hear that\u2013 (Stumbles over words) who\u2019s the driver<\/em> of this bus?<\/p>\n

Woman\u2019s voice:<\/strong> (Unintelligible word) a teenager\u2019s not gonna go.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Okay. Well then, one of the teenagers (Unintelligible word) a daughter and she\u2013 they should have been brought to tow. You should have brought them to tow, Melvin [Johnson].<\/p>\n

Melvin:<\/strong> What I did was uh\u2013 af\u2013 the hostesses and uh, uh, you know\u2013 and some of the grownups tried to quiet them down, and they were getting a bunch of feedback<\/em> so I told them that if they didn’t straighten out that I would contact the\u2013 the\u2013 the head bus and we\u2019d pull out\u2013 we\u2019d have\u2013 have to go off the road to deal with it, you know, if I just couldn\u2019t get no uh, consideration, you know. So uh, they did quiet down some, but that was uh, one or two<\/em> people who were just uh, totally rebellious and didn\u2019t want to uh\u2013 just didn\u2019t want to give in whatsoever, and they didn\u2019t want to get back in their seat, they wanted to braid somebody\u2019s hair. And uh, you know\u2013 you just\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>I say, silence and I mean silence, and if you can\u2019t get it, you stop the bus and you call the lead bus, we\u2019ll pull it to halt and we\u2019ll get silence if we have to knock some heads.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Gail Symington. Due to mismanagement of the council, we apologized to you earlier, but we want to finish this because you were put in a bad spot by being brought up, so we w\u2013 want to finish the uh\u2013 correcting this. Uh, Alice, one of our counselors and a very good<\/em> worker in this church, would like to bring Gail up publicly for bringing three girlfriends on Friday when she was told not to. Explicitly told not to. Alice left a message that she could not have the girls over, but she tried to get Shirley to bring these girls home. Shirley rebuk\u2013 refused because of what Alice had instructed. Gail got Edith Bogue to bring her and three girlfriends to the house anyway. Alice feels that what she did was rude, uncalled for and insulting<\/em>, and feels that all should be brought on the floor for this. Who\u2013 who\u2019s rude uh, and insulting, you mean she or uh, the other parties involved? You mean uh, Edith Bogue too? Did the\u2013 Did the girls know?<\/p>\n

Woman\u2019s voice:<\/strong> No, they didn\u2019t know. It\u2019s all my fault, everything.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Did they all know it?<\/p>\n

Woman\u2019s voice:<\/strong> No, they didn\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>They didn\u2019t know it.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>Uh-uh [No].<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What\u2019s that? Thank you, darling. Thank you.<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>I feel they did too because\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>She said they all knew. She said they all knew.<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>In the weekend meeting, they all were pretty snotty to me.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>They what?<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>In the weekend meeting, when they got to the city, they were pretty\u2013 their attitudes were pretty nasty, and I couldn\u2019t figure out why until I talked to uh, Claudia and Shirley for what had happened.<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>(unintelligible)\u2013 at the\u2013 at the uh, church, and uh, they got in my car, and Gail said that she would uh, spend the night down at the lodge (unintelligible)\u2013 \u2018cause it was supposed to\u2019ve been a party.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s going to be a nice party out here. There\u2019s going to be a party from six<\/em> to eight tomorrow night at the gardens for you darlings, and there\u2019s going to be a party started Monday that you going to be here, uh, there\u2019s going to be a party, cleaning up buses. We\u2019re calling a party. And it\u2019s eight o\u2019clock Monday morning, and we\u2019ll just easily dispose of that case, and that goes on for at least uh\u2013 uh, this is not an offense serious as some, but it\u2019s serious when you call into a business. She could lose her license for such actions as this, so we\u2019re\u2013 you\u2019ve got one month of this. Case is uh, judged and juried and closed and finished and shit on all in one blow.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Don\u2019t have to hear any excuses. Got all their names. Go over to the secretary and get their names down, and they sign on the dotted line, they\u2019ll be uh, in the garden tomorrow at six, won\u2019t we? If we won\u2019t<\/em>, then we should<\/em>, because it\u2019ll be worse the next time. Taking advantage of people like this. She has to work her\u2013 her bottom off. She\u2019s one of the best workers in this place. Don\u2019t do that no more, Gail. And all the rest of ya acting like you didn\u2019t know what it was about. Why did you say they didn\u2019t know about it?<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(Stumbles over words) How did you know that they knew?<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Yes, yes. She said you don\u2019t, and\u2013 and you said you did and I\u2013 I think you uh, had some basis for saying that.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> Um, when Glenda and those guys came over to the school, they were talking about it, and we were all going to go there, but Mom said that we couldn\u2019t. And then I came down here and I don\u2019t know what happened after that. Everybody knew about it in our household. And we were all told not to go by our mother.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Yeah, well ya see? What you gotta say for that?<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well you shoulda<\/em> heard what she said, \u2018cause you accused her of being a liar.<\/p>\n

Voice in background:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>She said<\/em> that everybody in that house over there knew, and her\u2013 her mother said for her not\u2013 for you not to go. She didn\u2019t go the rest of you in, that\u2019s what she said. Yes.<\/p>\n

Woman\u2019s voice:<\/strong> She told\u2013 Gail told me that Alice said that it was okay for me to come over, but then she\u2013 she\u2013 she let uh, Louis in and Dorothy come over too. She told me that Alice wanted to go too.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, I\u2013 I\u2019ve not found you on the wrong side of trouble you all think\u2013 but you\u2013 you should\u2013 you<\/em> shouldn\u2019t take that from a child. We\u2019ve told here, it\u2019s been public knowledge, and I know<\/em> that\u2019s it since you\u2019ve been here, that if you are invited, be sure it\u2019s cleared with the parents. That\u2019s a rule here. Isn\u2019t that right?<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>Right!<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>He said right, whatever, and he wants us to go home. Right? Uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Voice in background:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>I said I was in council the night before, I was keeping her down\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What?<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>\u2013 and I was supposed to let her go. You know, start letting her go out.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You were told to let her go where? Where (cut off by woman)\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>I was letting her go, you know (unintelligible under Jones)\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You weren\u2019t told\u2013 You weren\u2019t told specifically to let send her to Alice\u2019s\u2013 You stand up until we finish, darlin\u2019.<\/p>\n

Woman\u2019s voice:<\/strong> Just to let her go, you know, different places.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>People don\u2019t know anything about respect. You know, you give a honky judge more respect than you give your own leader that would die for you? You people won\u2019t come up, you have to be coached, you sit down, and you\u2019re not\u2013 It\u2019s not just you, it\u2019s just been a general thing, but I\u2019m going to refer to it. We just won\u2019t stand up, we should stand up until we\u2019re dismissed. \u2018Cause it\u2019s not\u2013 and you\u2019re not giving me any special attention, you\u2019re giving order to this house. And the government can\u2019t survive<\/em>, unless it has some order and respect.<\/p>\n

Woman\u2019s voice:<\/strong> I\u2019m sorry.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Thank you. That\u2019s good. Now you weren\u2019t told specifically to send your child to Alice\u2019s over the next nine days.<\/p>\n

Woman\u2019s voice:<\/strong> No, not\u2013 just not in her house.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>All right, well, still. Then it should be your<\/em> duty to clear it with the parent whether it\u2019s a mutual thing. Parents to clear with the parent. \u2018Cause we had some of that, my children in my home, a lot of them doing that way. It\u2019s supposed to be clear. So by the way, clear\u2013 Christine, when it\u2019s all right for you\u2013 for\u2013 for one of my children to be in your home, please let me know in writing, will you? Yeah, I\u2013 I know you\u2019re busy, and we can\u2019t always see, but let me know if\u2013 \u2018cause uh, I do not wish to be sending children someplace or having children coming in unless it\u2019s okay on the other end. It\u2019s too<\/em> tough. (Pause) CJ [Jackson] and Cleve Davis are organizing the donations of furniture, china and appliances. CJ is keeping very accurate records and packing them neatly in temporary storage. He\u2019s doing a very responsible and careful job. Thank you. Are they\u2013 Is he here? Is he here?<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Is Cleve Davis here? I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t see them. (Pause) Hmm? What? What is it? Did Cleve Davis hear what I said?<\/p>\n

Woman\u2019s voice:<\/strong> Yes, Cleve\u2019s right there.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Did you hear what I said? CJ and Cleve Davis are organizing the donations of furniture, china and appliances. CJ is keeping very accurate records and packing them neatly in temporary storage. He is doing a very responsible\u2013 they are doing a very responsible and careful job. So you tell CJ too, will ya?<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Maybe she\u2019ll take this\u2013 No more bad talk to Mother [Georgia Lee] Lacy. I\u2019ve got more\u2013 more uh, criticism up here for the way Mother Lacy\u2019s being treated. And you children better get on the ball. It\u2019s working in the garden. I want no back talk to her. (Pause) Is it understood? That\u2019s taken care of. That\u2019s taken care of. (Pause) Dear Counselor. (Unintelligible word) By Georgie. Today at school Tommy Kice said he was\u2013 he wished that he was the only church member in the school. And I said why, and he said because I hate church members. (Unintelligible) (Pause) Get\u2013 get him in counseling. It\u2019s more complicated than this. (unintelligible) (Pause) I\u2019m trying to clean up some business tonight, you know. We don\u2019t want to have another one of these for a\u2013 a little while, hopefully that way. The incident uh, happened about four months\u2013 uh, let me see\u2013 summary\u2013 four months in LA\u2013 uh, Wayne Pikes was playing karate in front of small children. Andrea Martin told him to stop. He stopped it for ten minutes, started again. He was told to stop again and then when\u2013 she was bending over a suitcase when he kicked her in the lower part of her spine. She has had pain, and the doctor now has to put her in traction three times a week. Where is Wayne Pikes? (Pause) In traction<\/em>, man. The hell you doing? You know we\u2019re told not to do karate.<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> (unintelligible)\u2013 karate\u2013 doing\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(angry voice) Well, let\u2019s get down to the last part of it. Did you kick your sister in the spine?<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> Yep.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>She\u2019s going to a doctor now, a specialist and has to have it\u2013 has to be in traction three times a week. With all of our enemies, and you put a hand to one of our sisters? You know that\u2019s one of the strongest<\/em> rules in this assembly. You don\u2019t touch<\/em> a comrade! You don\u2019t touch<\/em> her! (Pause) We get our wrath clear to the bone. We got enough people beating on us outside, we do<\/em> not touch one another. To do so is the worst<\/em> sin in this house.<\/p>\n

Man in crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right!<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You get your\u2013 who\u2019s the\u2013 responsible parent, come up here and sign. You\u2019re going to get yours. You\u2019re going to get some on your<\/em> bottom side. Plus some other things. Can you report\u2013 What is it?<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Had to stop him? [Christine] Bates? Mother Bates had to stop you in a fight church, Sunday?<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, she saw you<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>If you sign this uh\u2013 this release? We gonna get his bottom side gingered<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>Uh, Wayne has also been kicked out of the Redwood Valley School and cannot return there and uh, the people that are\u2013 he\u2019s living with want to move to the Valley but they have to wait now until summer because they can\u2019t move, \u2018cause they can\u2019t transport Wayne back to Ukiah, back and forth.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>He\u2019s kicked out of the Redwood Valley School. (Stumbles over words)\u2013 where are you people at? This ought to have been a public matter, before now. Hmm?<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Kicked out? That was made public on the floor?<\/p>\n

Wayne: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You just do\u2013 keep on trying<\/em> us, don\u2019t you?<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t kick her on purpose, it was an accident\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Let me tell you man\u2013<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> \u2013 somebody\u2013 somebody made me mad, I was kicking\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Let me tell you, man. Don\u2019t give me no shit. Don\u2019t you give me no shit. It\u2019s no accident when you kick somebody\u2019s spine. (Pause) You put somebody in traction. You had to kick hard. You don\u2019t just\u2013 It wasn\u2019t just an ordinary kick, and it wasn\u2019t an accident<\/em>. You can say\u2013 you can say you didn\u2019t mean to hurt<\/em> her, but don\u2019t tell me it\u2019s an accident. Accident means that you do<\/em> something that you couldn\u2019t avoid. You had to lift your damn foot<\/em> to kick her.<\/p>\n

Voice in background:<\/strong> I had just told them. They were running around, and small children in there, and you know, it coulda been one of them<\/em> that coulda been hurt. But you know, he kept on running around, and so finally, you know, he kicked\u2013 you know, kicked me but he wasn\u2019t paying no attention when I was there in the first place, you know. We was running around having a little fun.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You get him to garden, too. Six o\u2019clock tomorrow. And you\u2013 And get him to the uh\u2013 indefinitely. On the\u2013 on the\u2013 the buses, cleaning, and that sort of thing. Brothers, you\u2019re getting the case run down on these, aren\u2019t you? (Pause) Hmm? You\u2019re watching and you\u2019re listening? You got different levels of uh, consciousness here. How many should he get? Church?<\/p>\n

Voices in background:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Ten? He\u2019s been kicked out of the school. He\u2019s been\u2013 he\u2013 he\u2019s been\u2013 he\u2019s been\u2013 he kicked his sister after doing karate in front of children and going on for ten minutes when he should not have done so. Now you people\u2013 you people don\u2019t want to give ten. You know\u2013 you know what? You people that don\u2019t want to give anything, and some of you that want to do it mild, you are the worst enemies they\u2019ve got.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Because when they get in the jail, you<\/em> won\u2019t get them out. If anybody does, it\u2019ll have to be me. And I\u2019m overworked.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause, cheers)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Peace.<\/p>\n

Voice in background:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>He\u2019s gonna get more than a whippin\u2019. Who said\u2013 He\u2019s gonna get more than a whippin\u2019. That\u2019s right. I agree with that wholeheartedly. A whipping\u2019s too easy.<\/p>\n

Voice in background:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Yes, I think that\u2019s app\u2013 appropriate matter. You ought to get some chores and help work\u2013 pay\u2013 pay for the uh, medical bills. (Pause) Do you have any quarrel with what we\u2019re doing? Yeah.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> No, uh\u2013 He doesn\u2019t get a\u2013 a allowance that often.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>No. I\u2019m not talking\u2013 I\u2019m not talking about that. He\u2013 he\u2013 he\u2013 he can find some ways. Yeah, he can find some jobs. Yes. Where you getting it?<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> Uh, at school, a girl I go to work with (unintelligible)\u2013 her father (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Where was your father?<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> (unintelligible)\u2013 working\u2013 (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Won\u2019t solve your problem. You don\u2019t need to work for your father. You need\u2013 My boys uh\u2013 In my house, when they get a job\u2013 (unintelligible)\u2013 How old are you?<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> 14.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Hmm?<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> 14.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>14. What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You can mow lawns and do stuff around here. You ought to go around here and knock on some doors and ask if you can mow some lawns. You don\u2019t need to be tripping around with your father. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s any answer.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think so either. I think he wanted<\/em> to\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(interrupting man) Not\u2013 not to come back here on September at least. I don\u2019t want to see nobody th\u2013 th\u2013 you\u2013 you gonna have to make some changes, man.<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>He won\u2019t be able to do any work with his father because his father\u2019s working at the laundry and they\u2019ve all grown upstairs, so he won\u2019t be able (unintelligible). Uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>But what he can<\/em> do is, if\u2013 if he lived in San Francisco, getting around there collect\u2013 uh, if he can\u2019t find a job\u2013 collect uh, uh, copper and so forth or paper<\/em>, or, you know, sell it.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>I\u2019m afraid to let him in the streets collecting copper right now. I think he don\u2019t know enough about life yet. I think he\u2019d get himself in lots<\/em> of trouble. (Pause) I don\u2019t think he needs to be in no big city, honey. But he may be<\/em> there. He may be\u2013 Excuse me\u2013 (unintelligible) I\u2019m sorry. Did I bump\u2013 (unintelligible). Uh, uh, I don\u2019t a\u2013 yes\u2013 I can\u2013<\/p>\n

Voice from crowd: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, let\u2019s look into that<\/em> now. Let\u2019s look into that. How many feel he should get ten?<\/p>\n

Voices from crowd: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>How many feel he should get less ten?<\/p>\n

Voices from crowd: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Voices from crowd: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>All right, all right. Sister Tucker, you\u2019re going to have to give<\/em> some of them. Stand up here. You want ten? How many think he should get fifteen?<\/p>\n

Voices from crowd: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>How many feel he should get more<\/em>?<\/p>\n

Voices from crowd: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Shh. No laughing at this stage. Serious business. Majority is\u2013 the majority is twenty. Sister Tucker, you\u2019re going to have to give some of them because you\u2019ve been\u2013 you didn\u2019t want to give them strongly enough\u2013 dol\u2013 doll. So, come on up. What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Voice from crowd: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What is she saying?<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You didn\u2019t say you could give<\/em> (Unintelligible word)?<\/p>\n

Voices from crowd: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Okay, okay. Ten good licks. Okay, we\u2019ll give\u2013 we\u2019ll gonna give (Unintelligible) good licks. We\u2019ll find somebody to do it. Who\u2019ll volunteer for the job?<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Hmm?<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>(microphone comes on) \u2013make a suggestion that\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>Uh, this\u2013 this belt\u2013 not go get the job done, and it\u2019s only\u2013 ju\u2013 uh, just toughen their bottom. If you get them some plum switches\u2013<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>\u2013 like my mother used to put on me\u2013<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>She\u2013 she would get three of \u2018em and plat \u2018em together and she would leave (unintelligible) on \u2018em.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>My mother would get three plum switches, and she\u2019d leave the little limbs on it and she would plat \u2018em like a brush broom and she\u2013 she\u2019d work on this part with it, and believe me that\u2013 that will make you think twice before you\u2013 you do something again.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Responds)<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>Only child, and it\u2013 and she did it to me\u2013 It didn\u2019t kill me.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Why don\u2019t\u2013 why don\u2019t you\u2013 We\u2019ll assign you to get us one of those switches, but I\u2019m not gonna put him off. I wouldn\u2019t do that to anybody to put him off, so tonight we\u2019ll go by the belt, but you get us the switches, will you? You get us the switches and we\u2019ll see. We\u2019ll\u2013 We\u2019ll study it. I agree. A switch\u2013 in some ways a switch is not as dangerous, \u2018cause uh, a switch just\u2013 it just makes some sores. You don\u2019t hit the right place with a belt, then it\u2013 \u2018cause I\u2019ve taken whippings for children that are conscientious. I\u2019ve taken\u2013 I’m not taking a whipping for you, lad. That\u2019s one of the worst things I can testify to, and I won\u2019t take<\/em> one, because I\u2019ve taken plenty, but I\u2019m not taking a whippin\u2019 for you. When you show me you feel more, like your mother. Your mother\u2019s a good person. She set a good example. And I don\u2019t understand why you would uh, kick a sister. I don\u2019t understand why you\u2019d kick anybody. Period<\/em>. Okay. Who\u2013 Yes. Yes.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>No.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>Well, I would like to say that uh, last time he was up here, he got ten licks and it didn\u2019t do any good whatsoever, so I feel for those who think he should get ten licks, that\u2019s out. I feel he should get more than ten licks.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Scattered in crowd:<\/strong> So do I!<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Okay. Thank you.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>You know, I\u2019d like Wayne to know that uh, he has really let me down, because I\u2013 I struggled so hard to get him out up here, and he come up here and failed, when his dad (Unintelligible word) uh, didn\u2019t want him here, like he doesn\u2019t want him here, he wants him home for the summer. And when he do something like this\u2013 you know, he likes\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, that\u2019s you\u2013 that\u2019s not your problem. It\u2019s uh\u2013 You\u2019re\u2013 you\u2019re doing your part. It\u2019s the father that\u2019ll be sending him to jail, if he\u2019s going. I can see what the trouble is. So you\u2019re doing\u2013 you\u2019re doing your part, and if he doesn\u2019t listen<\/em> to this, and he\u2019s got the same goodness that\u2019s in you, but a house divided, it always ends up the child losing. Just like Mom Jones tried to hold the line, and Papa Jones didn\u2019t<\/em> do what was the best thing for the child. Papa Jones didn\u2019t\u2013 didn\u2019t love the child by going along with the child. He wanted to love<\/em> the child, but it was Mom Jones and his mother<\/em> that went along with\u2013 with their discipline. Love gives discipline. It\u2019s not your fault. We don\u2019t judge somebody here by who they\u2019re related to. You\u2019re in this family, and you have done the best you can. You\u2019ve got<\/em> him here, now it\u2019s up to him. And uh, if he wants to stay at home and go with his father, whatever, that\u2019s all right, but (Stumbles over words) he\u2019ll have to work under our jurisdiction if he\u2019s to stay around here. And he\u2019s going to have to take this lickin\u2019. Who\u2019s gon\u2013 who\u2019s volunteering to give that lickin\u2019? There\u2019s 20, I think. That\u2019s what the congregation voted on.<\/p>\n

Man in crowd:<\/strong> Don Jackson.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Yes? Excuse me.<\/p>\n

Don Jackson:<\/strong> With Wayne, it\u2019s difficult to talk to him when he\u2019s making a lot of noise and everything. He acts like he wants to whip you.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Oh?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>He thinks he\u2019s\u2013 he thinks he\u2019s that tough? He told you\u2013 (Stumbles over words) Brother [Jack] Beam said you told him<\/em> about that.<\/p>\n

Man in crowd: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Aren\u2019t\u2013<\/p>\n

Man in crowd: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>S-h-h. That\u2019s\u2013 that was the blood talking too, that\u2019s his family. Hmm? (Pause) Yes?<\/p>\n

Man in crowd: <\/strong>Wayne\u2013 Wayne, you should feel ashamed, \u2018cause you\u2019ve got your little brother doing the same thing. He hits me and kicks me.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>How\u2019d he\u2013 I bet he\u2019d do it one time. Where\u2019s he<\/em> at? Where\u2019s he<\/em> at?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Teaching him how to do karate. Who\u2019s he learning karate? You\u2019re not in a karate class, are you? This young man in a karate class?<\/p>\n

Boy\u2019s voice in background:<\/strong> (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You<\/em> stay out of karate. You get the spirit<\/em> before you get any karate. Where is that lad? Bring him up here\u2013 get him up here. Bring him up here. Wake him up\u2013 (Unintelligible word)\u2013 (cries out) Get him up here, by God! Wake him up. Slap him uh, on the bottom side. Wake him up. Put some water in his face. (speaks away from microphone) Give him a drink so he\u2019ll wake up? (cries out) Hey! (Pause) (Voice moderates) You ought to feel sorry, brother, that you\u2019re setting an example like that. Starting kickin\u2019 his grandmother at this hour\u2013 age. Hold<\/em> him up there. Somebody hold him up there. (Pause) Hey<\/em>! You hear me? (Pause) Hey, buddy. Anthony, do you hear me? You been kicking your grandmother and hitting at your grandmother? Well, she said you have.<\/p>\n

Anthony:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You don\u2019t do that anymore, you hear me? You hear me? You don\u2019t hit anybody any more. You understand me, Anthony? (Pause) Give him five healthy ones. (Unintelligible word) Yeah, he needs it. (Pause) Okay. Five\u2013 five he gets. Who’s giving these? Don\u2019t you give no more ideas like you gone fight with nobody, or you\u2019ll\u2013 the next time, we\u2019ll get somebody put gloves on you. I know a little about bo\u2013 bo\u2013 about boxing. I can teach somebody how to box. Say, you know some karate. But you won\u2019t use any karate when we\u2019re around.<\/p>\n

Boy\u2019s voice in background:<\/strong> (unintelligible) \u2013teach him no karate.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What?<\/p>\n

Boy:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t teach him no karate.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Don\u2019t you get no smart ass with me. What\u2019s the matter with you? You speak to me kind, man. You just get your\u2013 You just get your mouth kind.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Don\u2019t you get, you know (Unintelligible) karate. Don\u2019t you put you no hands on your hips.<\/p>\n

Boy:<\/strong> Yes sir.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You got a surly mouth, man, and you\u2019ve got a bad<\/em> attitude. (Pause) Which\u2013 which black uh, brother uh, will\u2013 uh, will take this on?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Oh, yeah. He knows how to do it. (Unintelligible) with the baby first (unintelligible). (Pause) And listen<\/em>, Anthony. When you\u2019re asked to be seated in church, you don\u2019t give us no trouble any more. Someone hold him. Someone hold the child, so there won\u2019t be any mix up and they get hit right. I want him hitting the bottom. No place\u2013 She\u2019ll<\/em> sign it\u2013 She\u2013 (unintelligible) She\u2019ll sign it. Ain\u2019t no problem there.<\/p>\n

(Pause) (Sound of spanking)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Give it to him. Not getting there. (Pause) That not quite enough. (Stumbles over words) \u2013 this\u2013 it sticks with them sometimes\u2013 (unintelligible word)\u2013 It\u2019s all right. It\u2019s finished now. Said five, five, five. It\u2019s important that we keep our word, but uh, put some more ginger to it. Twenty. (Pause) Don? (Pause) Shh. Get out of the way. Sit down and out of the way. Part of it\u2019s the humiliation more than the physical pain. So all of you that are standing up, get out of the way. Get out of the way. Sit down. All of you sit down. Out of the way.<\/p>\n

(Sound of spanking)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Low. Low. You want to hit low. Seven. Eight. Nine. Ten. Eleven\u2013 You stay over here, it\u2019ll be better for you, son. Twelve. Thirteen. Fourteen. Fifteen. Sixteen. Seventeen. Just bend over, it\u2019ll be better for you. Eighteen\u2013 nin\u2013 (unintelligible)\u2013 nineteen, twenty. Now what do you have to say, son?<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> I\u2019m sorry. (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, that was pretty patient. That was a pretty patient response. You get through to this. We\u2019re trying to keep you out of trouble. You can\u2019t fight<\/em> the world, wayne, you can\u2019t fight this world. Only together, cooperating. And you did the worst thing was to hit your sister. Or kick her. You coulda injured\u2013 (Unintelligible) injure her. So you work to get some money to help here. If that doctor\u2019s putting her in traction, three times a week, she\u2019s got some injury<\/em> to her spine. If she gets any healing, it\u2019ll be me<\/em>. And you\u2019re gonna have to help.<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, we don\u2019t know<\/em>, \u2018cept every time you go to the doctor, it\u2019s ten, fifteen dollars a time. So you just\u2013 you just get out there and make some money, and we\u2019ll see. I\u2019ll see what I can do about the condition too.<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> (unintelligible word) I\u2019d like to thank you for (unintelligible). It coulda been worse (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones: Yes, <\/strong>I\u2019m sure it coulda been much<\/em> worse. But you see, if that had not been a sister, you\u2019d already be in jail. She\u2019da filed a complaint. Do you know what you\u2019da been charged with? Assault and battery, with intent to kill. When you use your foot, it\u2019s always\u2013 that\u2019s\u2013 they can lay that charge (Unintelligible word). And you would be up the river. They\u2019d keep you\u2013 They got George Jackson, slightly older, but about your age, and just got out of juvenile right into prison. They just passed him right on in to prison. He never did see the light of day till they killed him. Son, please, know we\u2019re trying to help you. We\u2019re not trying to be mean. We\u2019re trying to help you, because the man<\/em> won\u2019t beat on your ass. He\u2019ll beat your head<\/em>, he\u2019ll beat your eyes<\/em>. Many of our brothers\u2013 There\u2019s three of our brothers knifed in prison this week. Yesterday. Down, right down off of\u2013 off of San Quentin\u2013 Three knived<\/em>. One day, yesterday. All right. Tomorrow report, six to eight. Hmm?<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Yeah. Six to eight. Eight o\u2019clock, Monday morning, to the busses.<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> (unintelligible) Thank you, thank you for talking to (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Thank you.<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>I think you\u2019ve just skimmed over to that, that he beat you up on the back of (Unintelligible). I think he just skimmed over it. It\u2019s very hard to stand up. I don\u2019t think he did any harm. (Unintelligible word) just skimmed over it.<\/p>\n

Wayne:<\/strong> (unintelligible)\u2013 make the decision like he would, \u2018cause I woulda just smashed him and took him back and whatever happened, I guess woulda happened to him. \u2018Cause I\u2013 I mean (Unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, he\u2019s\u2013 he\u2013 he\u2013\u00a0you have so much good in you, that it\u2019s there in him, and I hope for it to come out. (Pause) Anthony Buckley should be commended for his fine achievements at Ben Franklin School. Last month he wrote a play about young people and the problems of venereal disease. For that he won a plane trip to Disneyland. There were only five<\/em> boys who won through the whole<\/em> school. He was\u2013 he\u2013 he used to\u2013<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Where\u2019s he at? Where\u2019s he at? Bring him up. Now this<\/em> is a boy who grew up here<\/em> and had to leave here and excelled<\/em> in the city. And that\u2019s amazing, because that\u2019s just\u2013 well, it\u2019s just amazing, that\u2019s all. Give him a good hand.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>We\u2019re proud of you, man, we\u2019re proud of you. Five boys in the whole<\/em> school system. Benjamin Franklin that got this. Johnny Valentine Shular, six years old, second grade. Johnny had ten cents which he was saving to spend on candy. When he went to school, he\u2013 he\u2019s told them about the\u2013 the\u2013 When he went to school\u2013 (Stumbles over words)\u2013 it said, when he went to school his (unintelligible) clear to me, but the Red Cross told him about starving children in the world, and that the Red Cross would help. He quickly gave his ten cents and took a bar of soap. This was his own idea. We really thank you for that. Give him that praise.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>I think that further grows to confirm, the Buckley boy\u2019s response and growth, further goes to confirm what we said earlier about the Shular home. Yeah, those are two that are not messing around, trying to prove something (unintelligible word) to each other, but they\u2019re sharing some love with children where it really counts. Hmm?<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>And as you know<\/em>, the last child that I just named is in their home too. So if some of you would come to terms with the marriage uh, like\u2013 I think that should be\u2013 they didn\u2019t marry out of the same reason as others. They married something like the Becks [Don and Bonnie Beck], to serve, and look what they\u2019re doing with it. And some of you who say you\u2019ve got so much love going on with you, you can\u2019t give a child anything. Your children are like hell, because you\u2019re<\/em> living in hell. So why don\u2019t try to bend your life towards a higher purpose, a nobler purpose. This is such a wonderful thing to produce children like this. This lad\u2013 this lad was really gone<\/em>, he was out of co\u2013 contact. Buckley boy was out of contact with things. He was often a schizophrenic withdrawal, and to see him performing like that uh, is a commendation to him and a commendation to his home. A commendation his\u2013 to his mother who loved him enough to allow him to get the kind of background that he needed. So we\u2013 we praise Sister Buckley, we praise Brother and Sister Shular, and we praise you to the nth degree. Keep it up man, keep it up.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(speaking off the microphone, in background)\u2013 You may go down. Go down. You may go down. Get yourself as we\u2019re getting ready to close now. (Pause) Just months\u2013 (unintelligible)\u2013 every\u2013 thank you so, for your thought. I wish the fatal heart attack, soft water message to be sent around. How many have soft water in their home? Soft<\/em> water. Soft<\/em> water. You shouldn\u2019t be drinking soft water. Soft. Not salt<\/em> water. Soft. S-o-f-t. (Pause) San Francisco\u2019s water very soft? (unintelligible) Well, some of them\u2013 some of them\u2013 many s\u2013 people don\u2019t even drink<\/em> regular city water. They have\u2013 What is\u2013 What?<\/p>\n

Voice in background:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, that\u2019s all right. You get the spring water. Uh, but you can get juices and get your liquids in that<\/em> way, just as long as you take so much liquid a day.<\/p>\n

Voice in background:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What? Should not drink soft water. It\u2019s been conclusively proven that it\u2019s associated with heart attacks. And it changes\u2013 it changes when you change. Now if I didn\u2019t love you, I wouldn\u2019t tell you, \u2018cause there gonna be folks go out and spend all kinds of money for buying spring water. If you just drink your proper juices \u2013 your grape, your cranberry \u2013 you get enough liquid through that<\/em>. You wouldn\u2019t have to drink so much water as some people do, but you must take eight or ten glasses a day. Or something. Not milk. Nobody\u2013 Uh, it\u2019s been a proven fact too that milk in\u2013 except in cases, rare cases, very<\/em> rare cases where medically prescribed, that no one past their mature years should drink milk. You don\u2019t need it. Not only do you not need it, it\u2019s damaging to you. Uh-hmm [Yes].<\/p>\n

Music on second track ends<\/em><\/p>\n

Voice in crowd: <\/strong>(Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What\u2019d you say, (Unintelligible word)? What?<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd: <\/strong>(Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s a\u2013 it\u2019s lower in\u2013 in the\u2013 in the fats but it still\u2013 it\u2013 it\u2019s not uh, too conducive to people that want to keep their cholesterol down.<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Nonfat, but you still have some calcium deposits that you\u2013 uh, it doesn\u2019t help you with arthritis and other things. The only reason I drink the filthy stuff\u2019s in here \u2013 I can\u2019t stand it \u2013 but in here my stomach\u2019s in such knots that I have to. My stomach is in literal hell, only when I\u2019m in congregational meetings or in counseling assemblies. I wouldn\u2019t\u2013 I\u2019d be the healthiest person\u2013 person alive if it wasn\u2019t for the confrontations of helping with other people\u2019s lives. \u2018Cause you never can do it \u2018til they understand it. It\u2019s just very rare<\/em> that someone will understand that you\u2019re trying to help them. I\u2019m tired of trying to do<\/em> it. I feel\u2013 Like the sister said, I feel uh, just about giving up<\/em> on it. But I won\u2019t<\/em>, I\u2019ll keep doing it, but during this service, I just have to get something to stop that enormous knotting that begins within fifteen minutes. Oh, it was later tonight because of that beautiful music, and please keep up that. I\u2019ve asked for that for a long while, and I appreciate you getting that together, because there\u2019s a difference between our singing, and if you want to reach people in religion, and there\u2019s a lot of people that could be reached by that who\u2019d stay around for that singing, even though the sermons get a little heavy, they\u2019d stay around. Uh, we need both<\/em>, I mean, you certainly those other kind of uh, songs are remarkable, but I\u2019ve asked a long time for a definite spiritual type of song, and not all with the same kind of a fast tempo, and tonight you fulfilled that. That song you sang, uh (Stumbles over words), you could\u2019ve sung it a capella almost, and there\u2019s a certain beautiful uh, relaxing aspect to it. I can\u2019t explain it. We all know what it is when we feel<\/em> it. But there should be \u2013 not only the fast song \u2013 but there should be that<\/em> type of song too. And there should be a mixture<\/em> of them. And you did well<\/em>. You gave us a beautiful quick time song, inspired, anointed song, and then you gave us a deep inspirational song at first. And I hope you\u2019ll do more of it, because I didn\u2019t have any tensions all during that. I was certainly relaxed, and some of you don\u2019t have enough judgment to sho\u2013 uh, you really don\u2019t have enough judgment. I was sitting there, wanting to relax, and you tried to bring me notes, and I didn\u2019t\u2013 I\u2013 you thought I didn\u2019t see you. I ignored<\/em> you.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You will never<\/em> let me alone. So when people came up and (Unintelligible word), I just ignored you. I did\u2013 I did it to Jack, I did it to Grace Stoen, the head of the council, I did it all you come up. Sometimes I want to be left alone. I don\u2019t interfere<\/em> with something that\u2019s being produced like that. In the first place, I want to give honor<\/em> to it. And when there\u2019s yak, yak, yak, yak\u2013 and even though Jack<\/em> had something quite serious, and I\u2019m sure Grace did too<\/em>, but if we get into it, then other people (Unintelligible word) excuse to yak. We should give our attention<\/em> to whoever\u2019s performing and not be rude<\/em>, to interfere and interrupt, because (smacks lips) it\u2013 it touched me greatly that they took the time to do it, and I hope you\u2019ll do more of it because I\u2013 you\u2013 if you could do that in one night, I\u2019d hate to think what you could do. I\u2019d love to be able to imagine<\/em> what you could do with the several days practice.<\/p>\n

Man in crowd:<\/strong> Yeah!<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Sing that\u2013 Sing that while I\u2019m working, that first one, will you? That group stand and sing that first one, while I\u2019m\u2013 while I\u2019m working.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Is there any announcement that should be gotten out of the way? Let\u2019s don\u2019t kill it\u2013 Let\u2019s don\u2019t kill it, with an\u2013 uh, with a heavy bunch of announcements. Now if there\u2019s anything should be said, let\u2019s say it now.<\/p>\n

Man in crowd:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

(Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Don\u2019t ever say that I don\u2019t know what it\u2019s do\u2013 uh, like in your department or your office. And then to refer to me as that mother.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Mm-mm. Sing on. (Tape edit)Your jokes sometimes, you don\u2019t know the first thing about discipline. This person probably needs some teaching about what it is to try to structure an organization. People look on<\/em> to disrespect. You may not mean anything by it, but they think a lot<\/em> of it.<\/p>\n

(music begins playing)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Shift yourself, folk, so that you can be\u2013<\/p>\n

(Choir sings)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Beautiful. (Long pause while choir sings) You shift. (Pause) Beautiful, beautiful.<\/p>\n

(Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>The leader in denigrating terms is unacceptable to us.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Once\u2013 once done so, I think that from now on, you\u2019ll finish all kind of contributions to us. We can get along very well without you.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think we can let that happen once<\/em> even. One time, and I think that was encouraged. I\u2019m going to tell<\/em> you, I don\u2019t think that a worker would\u2019ve said<\/em> that in that department, if it had not been encouraged<\/em> by people in high places. The idea to call this leader a motherfucker.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Now I want you to know what I think. I don\u2019t think it speaks of a person alone. I think it speaks of people who are responsible. Your attitude is mirrored. If you\u2019re a counselor, if you are a\u2013 a functionary, if you happen to be on a commission, your attitude is mirrored by those who work around you. I don\u2019t think anybody will take that kind of liberty (voice lowers) unless there is a seething<\/em> anarchy breeding, and if you think\u2013 if you think I\u2019m afraid of your anarchy, I\u2019m going to tear your anarchy up tonight. You don\u2019t fuck with me.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Peace. Thank you. I want everyone in that department called in. You\u2019ll see if I\u2019m afraid. You think I have to keep this thing here. There\u2019s an attitude that we\u2019re afraid of our enemies. You\u2019re<\/em> afraid of our enemies. I\u2019m not afraid of whatever. I\u2019d rather tear<\/em> this place up than it go down a tube for nothing. So if I\u2019ve got that<\/em> kind of thing, that you could speak about the greatest compassionate force that you could speak in such terms as that, and I know<\/em> that the subject that was being discussed, that there was resentment by others<\/em> about that subject. So, I don\u2019t want your hand on a thing down there until that\u2019s resolved. If we\u2013 if we come back tomorrow, and you find a whole lot of people don\u2019t have a job anymore, and they\u2019ve joined your enemies, that\u2019s all right too, because I want you to know, I\u2019m not afraid of any of these damn people out there, because I got more guts than they got.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Sustained applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Just remember, there nothing worse than putting somebody in a corner when they\u2019ve tried over and over and over to do righteousness and no one receive it, and you get \u2018em in a corner, they\u2019re extremely<\/em> dangerous. Extremely dangerous. Aren\u2019t they?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>And I think you can sense the hands of these people that we are a nonviolent people, but we\u2019re extremely<\/em> dangerous, \u2018cause we\u2019ve been fed<\/em> up with anarchy and fed<\/em> up with rebellion and fed<\/em> up with selfishness.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Smart ass. Boy, you wished you hadn\u2019t said it before it\u2019s over, I\u2019ll bet. And you\u2019ll wish you hadn\u2019t encouraged such an environment.<\/p>\n

Man in crowd:<\/strong> (unintelligible)\u2013 anarchy\u2013 (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(Stumbles over words) They\u2019re awfully thankful she\u2019s not being brought up, publicly. \u2018Cause there\u2019d be\u2019s\u2013 a whole lot of mad<\/em> folk in this room.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Enthusiastic applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Being that they had not\u2013 had uh, the first time, in their first offense, we\u2019ll give them a break. That shows there\u2019s no ego on my part. I\u2019m the one that\u2019s being offended in this, so I uh\u2013 I\u2019ll give them a chance to uh, meet with lesser numbers. \u2018Cause I\u2019m sure you\u2019re not uh, any cooler<\/em> about that than I am. The idea. The idea. Keep your music playing, \u2018cause I\u2019m writing down things for people\u2019s protection. I\u2019ve got to do all the things that I do at one time. Just remember, you don\u2019t have anything on me that I care about, \u2018cause everything that you have on me, I\u2019ve let it all hang right out for everybody to see.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Right. (Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Now you get to worrying about yourself. I don\u2019t mind losing my life. What about you?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>I don\u2019t mind losing my reputation. What about you? I don\u2019t mind\u2013 I don\u2019t mind being tortured<\/em>. What about you?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>That\u2019s uh\u2013 Always want to ponder your enemy when you\u2019re taking on somebody. You want to make a righteous man your enemy, you want to ponder<\/em> it. Because a righteous<\/em> person won\u2019t be afraid.<\/p>\n

Man in crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>That\u2019s something to think about. You want\u2013 you want to size your enemy up. Hmm?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>You that are afraid to\u2013 uh\u2013 (Stumbles over words) Well. I\u2019m just no longer afraid, and I\u2019ve lost interest in this old world of capitalist sin and racism. I\u2019ve lost interest in it. So if somebody wants to make me stay in it by compromising with filthy-minded people, that cannot even have respect for somebody that would die for even his enemies\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman in background: <\/strong>That\u2019s right!<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>\u2013and they want to cause anarchy in our midst, I would just as soon bring it all to a gallant<\/em>, a glorious, screaming end. Just bring it to a screeching stop in a\u2013 one glorious moment of triumph. So you think about it. (Pause) Shift your hands please slightly, so that I\u2019ll\u2013<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(tone different, likely an earlier tape) \u2013in the young people come up now and get in\u2013 form the line. Fifteen to twenty five.<\/p>\n

(tape edit) (long pause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(singing, faintly) Oh God be \u2013<\/p>\n

(singing stops; faint talking)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(tone different, likely an earlier tape) \u2013we made it\u2013 we made (unintelligible). Long ago, we settled it. In the blood of the [Joseph] McCarthy era. I\u2019ve been drug out by all kinds of investigators, way back to the McCarthy era. Some of us have been taken\u2013 this whole church to the Internal Revenue. We\u2019ve been through too much to\u2013<\/p>\n

(unintelligible; loud static, squealing sound)<\/p>\n

(singing)<\/p>\n

End of tape<\/strong><\/p>\n

Tape originally posted July 2011<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1, Pt. 2). (Note: This tape was transcribed by Vicki Perry. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.) (Music plays in background throughout much […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":261,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-27463","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27463","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=27463"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27463\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":107942,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27463\/revisions\/107942"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=27463"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}