{"id":27467,"date":"2013-06-16T00:20:21","date_gmt":"2013-06-16T00:20:21","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/alternativejonestown.com\/?page_id=27467"},"modified":"2025-09-03T16:41:21","modified_gmt":"2025-09-03T23:41:21","slug":"q570","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=27467","title":{"rendered":"Q570 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>, Pt. 2<\/a>).<\/p>\n

Part 1<\/b><\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/b> (cuts into conversation) \u2014working with Mike [Touchette] on the road, (Pause) and um, I was supposed\u2014 oh\u2014 it was um\u2014 (Pause) we had some two boys hired to cut a culvert for the road, and so uh, we di\u2014 the boys didn’t tell Mike or me\u2014 anybody else, and so Mike told me to go back there and chop the culvert. And I got up on top of the tree, Ocause there was bush around me, and I was chopping from the top of it, and it pulled me over once, and I fell on the ground and then got back up to do it again. And the next time, I swung the ax and it hit my foot. And\u2014<\/p>\n

Male 2<\/b>: As opposed to what you said to Mike.<\/p>\n

Male 3:<\/b> Supposed to almost severed the limb that’s cut the ax\u2014 the ax\u2014 uh\u2014 ax cut that was almost supposed to cut anything off that (unintelligible)\u2014 Because we keep them razor sharp.<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> And that’s the way\u2014 was yours razor sharp (unintelligible name)?<\/p>\n

Male 1: <\/b>Uh\u2014 no, I didn’t check it.<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> (unintelligible word) sharpened it. It was razor sharp.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b> (Unintelligible) barely cut himself\u2014<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> He didn’t\u2014 he didn’t check to see if it was\u2014<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/b> No, I ju\u2014 I just\u2014<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> But it was cutting the\u2014 cutting the limb (overwhelmed by voice 1)<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/b> Yeah, it was going good.<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> Then it had to be sharp. It cut him up here on the top part.<\/p>\n

Male 3:<\/b> It weighs eight pounds, too.<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> It weighs eight pounds?<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/b> And I fell on top of it instead of hitting it, I um, slipped off the log, and the ax hit the ground first, and my foot hit the ax. I fell on top of the ax. Then I come um, limping out like, you know\u2014 as you usually walk out, come walking out, like no pain as yet, and then whenever I got on the Cat, it started a little hurtin’, and then whenever I got to the house, it started hurtin’ worse. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> But you didn’t have no trouble coming out at all.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/b> No trouble. No, I thank you. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> It’s remarkable, isn’t it. (Pause) No\u2014 no scar there?<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/b> No scar.<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> (unintelligible phrase; sounds like “There has to be\u2014”) (Pause) Does it hurt anymore?<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/b> No. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> How long before the pain went away? (Pause)<\/p>\n

Male 1: <\/b>Couple hours.<\/p>\n

Voices too soft.<\/p>\n

Part 2<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b> (unintelligible phrase) you get Phyllis Jackson on here.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/b> Are you\u2014 are you ready to go?<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> I’m (unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/b> You’re all wired in there.<\/p>\n

Male 3<\/b>: All right, take 3, take 1.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Male <\/b>3: Charlie Touchette.<\/p>\n

Charlie Touchette<\/b>: This is\u2014 this is Charlie Touchette, and sitting here is Mike Touchette, and Tim Swinney and Al Touchette and Philip Blakey and Jan Wilsey and Paula Adams, (Pause) Lester\u2014<\/p>\n

Another male: <\/b>Lester Mathison, Kevan\u2014<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/b> Kevan Grubbs\u2014<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Anthony\u2014<\/p>\n

Charlie: <\/b>Anthony Simon, and we’ve just been kinda kicking the subject around here, and I personally would like to say how much I do miss not being able to attend ze\u2014 attend the meetings. Uh, I was probably one of the worst ones at trying to get out of meetings and working on the buses when I was there, and believe me, if I were ever to come back to the United States \u2014 which I prefer staying down here in this beautiful Promised Land \u2014 but if I would have to come back to the United States for some reason or other, I would never ever try to get out of another meeting. The teachings of Father are so beautiful, that anyone who tries to stay out of meetings, they really should examine themselves. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Mike Touchette:<\/b> Yeah, this is Mike Touchette, and uh, I know that uh, whenever I was there, I was very anarchistic, because I was never in the meetings and that uh, being down here and being away from Father’s socialism, that uh, I have learned that his ideals are the way of life, because of being away from him, and I know that, if I was now in the States, I would work to my utmost to uphold his, his ideals of socialism, because I did not do it before, because I was never in the meeting.<\/p>\n

Tim Swinney:<\/b> Uh, this is Tim Swinney, and uh, I know that when I was up there, I always tried to find excuses and uh, my best excuse was going out and working on a bus or something. And having Father down here has made me very much aware of what I missed, because it took him being down here to\u2014 to learn what I didn’t learn up there. So uh, (Pause) I know what I was missing in the meetings, and\u2014 (Pause) and I sure wish I coulda went to them, or wish I would’ve went to them more, instead of trying to find excuses to be out of them. And I really appreciate Father coming down here. It’s really been a\u2014 It’s really been an uplift to me\u2014<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> That’s right.<\/p>\n

Swinney<\/b>: \u2014and uh, (Pause) it’s helping me down here to work harder in the project. Over and out.<\/p>\n

Albert Touchette:<\/b> Uh, this is Albert Touchette, and uh, before I was able to come to the Promised Land, I was uh\u2014 like Mike, I was an anarchist, and uh, I was never in service. (Laughs) And in fact, they\u2014 they\u2014 I was\u2014 I was such an anarchist, I\u2014 they would have people that would watch me to make sure I would stay in service, I was so bad, and uh\u2014 and I really know now what\u2014 when I first\u2014 it didn’t take long being away from Father to find out what you\u2014 what you’re missing, because it’s such\u2014 Ocause, um, he said it here, that absence makes the heart grow fonder, and um\u2014 and then he came down here, and it’s really been beautiful to spend it\u2014 to have a few days with Father. And it\u2014 and it\u2014 it’s just beautiful, and I\u2014 I know now that if I was back there, that I would not pull the antics that I did to get out of service. So I’m just uh, thankful for Father coming down here.<\/p>\n

Anthony Simon:<\/b> Hello, this is Anthony, and I just wanted to say, that I miss the service so much, and being around the body that we know, and the teachings. Just being here and having his presence here these last few days and learning more than I have ever known since I been there and getting to understand what socialism and the idea of living for our brothers and sisters is all about. And I’m just saying, you guys are so lucky to be around the body and to understand the teachings, and I think you should be able to grasp a hold to him, better hold on to it, and I’ll just be glad to just see you guys when you get down here.<\/p>\n

Philip Blakey: <\/b>This is Philip Blakey, and uh (Pause) I\u2014 when I was in the valley, I would frequently miss the services from being at work, and uh, I realize this was\u2014 didn’t benefit me at all. And, just having Father here for these few days he’s had, when we’ve had small meetings and with a few people, it’s really been wonderful to be really close to him, and to learn his teachings more fully, because he’s had more time to explain it and go over it\u2014 the wonderful socialist messages that he has. And I think if I’d been in all the meetings back there, I would’ve been a much harder worker for socialism long before now. And I really appreciate it, and um\u2014 (Pause) I hope everybody back there will think about this, and then really attend the meetings, and, and uh, be all good workers for Father and socialism.<\/p>\n

Male voice too quiet.<\/p>\n

David Betts (Pop) Jackson:<\/b> This is the Reverend D. B. Jackson (Pause) speaking. I’m just happy to be here in the Promised Land. We have our leader here with us, our Father, and now he’s about getting ready to take off again, and I wish we could take off with him. We hope that you will uh, study this socialism, because um, we heard about great things that Christ did when he was here, but we have a greater one here now, than Christ. We have one that we can see with our natural eyes, and see what he do. He raise the dead and give sight to the blind, make the cripple leap for joy. I’m just happy to be here with the family tonight. I wish you was here with us. Thank you.<\/p>\n

Tape cuts off and on after undetermined time. Male speaks too softly.<\/p>\n

Jan Wilsey:<\/b> (Unintelligible question)<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Yeah, you’re on now.<\/p>\n

Wilsey:<\/b> Okay, this is um, Jan, and I just wanted to say that being down here and being away from the meetings and not\u2014 (Pause) being in a meeting and listening to the truth being spoken is really\u2014 you never know how much you’ll miss it, unless you’re away from it. And we’ve had the pleasure of having um, our socialist Father with us this past few days and this\u2014 we’re all going to really miss him when he goes back, and I just want to say how lucky you are to have him there with you. So\u2014<\/p>\n

Jerry Livingston:<\/b> Uh, this is Jerry Livingston and I want to say to my brothers and sisters back there that we’re really fortunate to have such a friend as\u2014 as our Father, who is continually uh, watching out for us and teaching us the truth, and is so sincere and so dedicated, and we’re just\u2014 we’re just a lucky family, and\u2014 and I have missed him in the year and a half that I’ve been down here, and I really appreciate the\u2014 the few days that he’s been here, and it\u2014 we’re\u2014 we’re such a, a, a fortunate family, that I, I\u2014 we\u2014 I just cannot express how beautiful it is, and I appreciate all of you back there, and I miss everyone. (Pause) Thank you. Mom Jackson?<\/p>\n

Mom Jackson:<\/b> This is Mom Jackson [likely Luvenia], and I want to say to all of my sisters and my brothers back there, to the rest of our family, that we have been blessed to have our Father and our Mother here with us these few days. Oh, I just can’t tell you how much it has thrilled us, how much we enjoyed having them. We know they have to go back, but let me tell you, get ready. If it’s Father’s will for you to come this way, come on. And if not, if it’s his (tape edit?) for ours\u2014 for us to come there, we’ll be there. Thank you. Thank you.<\/p>\n

Mikes Prokes:<\/b> Thank you.<\/p>\n

Joyce Touchette:<\/b> Hello, this is Joyce Touchette. Um\u2014 I want you to know how much we have appreciated Mother’s and Father’s visit down here, and how much we do miss them, and the\u2014 the ones back there that get the opportunity to go to the meetings, you should not take advantage of it. Um\u2014 it’s beautiful here, and we are looking forward to our family joining us. Over and out.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> (unintelligible) \u2014 Mike Prokes’ lunch.<\/p>\n

Laughter<\/p>\n

Albert:<\/b> Am I on now? That was the first one. Um\u2014 On uh, Friday, uh, Anthony and Davis and I and several others were (Pause) were unloading the boat, and to get\u2014 we\u2014 we\u2014 we had to unload uh, 27 drums of gasoline, and to do this, we had to pick the gasoline up seven or eight feet, and then pull it over onto the dock, and the way that we had to do it was uh, was, is a miracle in itself, and uh, Ocause you couldn’t\u2014 couldn’t believe the wa\u2014 the way it was rigged up unless you saw it. But on the second to the last barrel, Tim looked at his rope, and it had frayed, and there were\u2014 and it was cut\u2014 it was cut, and there were only like two strands holding the whole, the whole rope and he said it’s good for, it’s good for at least two more barrels (tape clicks off and on) um, and the barrel, he had\u2014 we had got\u2014 the barrel was almost set down on the dock, and just as it got three or four inches from the\u2014 from the dock\u2014 from the dock to rest on it, the b\u2014 the board\u2014 the rope snapped, and uh, and we were picking the barrel up with a set of barrel hooks, which is\u2014 which is a metal chain and metal hooks, and these flew off of the barrel and they missed Davis Solomon’s head by just inches. It was\u2014 It was a miraculous that the barrel didn’t\u2014 that the hooks didn’t hit him in the head. And the barrel dropped off in the river. And uh\u2014 Thanks, Father.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Tell him that\u2014 tell him we were high-lining the barrel, and all that weight, all that pressure on the rope, snapped.<\/p>\n

Albert: You tell him. I don’t understand it.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> It coulda cut any of\u2014<\/p>\n

Voices overlap.<\/p>\n

Albert:<\/b> We were high-lining. We were high-lining the bar\u2014 (Laughs). High-lining the barrel, and at the time the rope snapped, it was the weight of the barrel, plus the, the stress on the, on the rope, pulling the barrel onto the dock, so it was quite a bit of force that threw the rope at Davis. In fact, it\u2014 it flew probably a hundred feet, and\u2014 Ocause when I went to get the, the, the barrel hooks, they were a hundred feet away at least from where they broke. But it uh\u2014 it was really a miracle that Davis didn’t get in the he\u2014 get hit in the head, Ocause it was only a couple of barrels before that that, that both he and Anthony were standing right directly in line with the ropes, and I told them that they shouldn’t stand there, they should stand off to the sides, so it’s\u2014 it’s truly a\u2014 it’s really a miracle when\u2014 and it’s\u2014 it was\u2014 it’s just wonderful being down here being down here with Father, and\u2014 and being down here at this end, working for freedom, and whenever the need be, if the time comes, I’m ever ready to go back there in the States and fight for freedom.<\/p>\n

Tape turns off and on<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> I’d tell him our first miracle was getting the wash\u2014 (words drowned by moving mike)<\/p>\n

Davis Solomon:<\/b> Hi. I’m Davis Solomon. And I’d like to thank our Fa\u2014 thank our Father for saving me from getting hit in the head with them barrel hooks, which I know, it wasn’t\u2014 it was the love th\u2014 of our Father that saved me from getting hit in the head with those barrel hooks. It’s just like Al w\u2014 was saying, the barrel hooks came\u2014 came a matter of inches from my head. (Pause) And (Laughs) I’m so really grateful. And it’s also\u2014 I’m so grateful to be here.<\/p>\n

Tape turns off and on several times<\/p>\n

Swinney: <\/b>Uh, this is Tim Swinney. Uh\u2014 I just want to tell you how, how beautiful this place is down here, and\u2014 and what a\u2014 (Pause) what a pleasure it is to work down here to make a home for the people, to keep them out of concentration camps<\/a> and, and uh, and jail, and what all. And I just want all of you to know that if the time ever comes that I’m needed back there to fight to further soc\u2014 socialism, and this cause, I’m ready to come. And uh, if we can make it back down here, we’ll all come back down here too. It\u2014 It uh\u2014 whatever is needed from me, I’ll gladly do it. Over and out.<\/p>\n

Tape turns off and on<\/p>\n

Livingston:<\/b> Uh, this is Jerry Livingston. I’d like to say that uh, even though it is beautiful here in the Promised Land, and it’s everything you’ve been told it is, uh, if the time ever\u2014 ever comes that uh, Father would want me to come back there, if I’m needed there, I’ll be more than happy to\u2014 to come.<\/p>\n

Tape turns off and on<\/p>\n

Blakey:<\/b> Uh, this is Philip Blakey again, in the Promised Land. And I’d like to tell you a miracle that happened to me one day when I was driving a load of lumber, uh, on the road, uh, coming out towards Jonestown. We loaded the trailer up with lumber from the boat, uh, our boat, the Marceline, which we use uh, to bring supplies and\u2014 up to the Northwest District where our project is, and uh, I was driving down this very steep hill with a full load of lumber on it, and the tractor came out of gear, and I knew that I\u2014 I could never get the thing braked wh\u2014 uh, because the tractor doesn’t brake like a car, if, if you ever have to\u2014 to brake a tractor, it tends like it’s going to slide. And this is what happened with the big load of lumber pushing on it, the whole thing almost completely jackknifed. And just as I was broadside across the road, the tractor suddenly just slowed down and came to a dead stop. And I know, uh, from experience before, this is only uh, thanks to the power and love of Father.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/b> How do you feel about going home?<\/p>\n

Blakey:<\/b> Um, I fe\u2014 I\u2014 this place here is very beautiful and wonderful, but if\u2014 I know that I would come home immediately if Father ever decided we wanted to, to make a go of it and fight at home, I would be on my way.<\/p>\n

Mike Touchette :<\/b> Hi, this is Mike Touchette, I’d like to say a miracle is that um, one day whenever I was working on the Cat, um, a pieces\u2014 a piece of wood flew up from in\u2014 from in front of the machine, and it was um, flying towards my face, and I was watching it, and it looked like an arrow coming straight be\u2014 it was coming straight for my eyes, and it got within a foot. It was\u2014 was just within a foot of my face, and it just stopped, instantly, it just stopped like there was a wall of glass right there, and it fell in my lap. And I know if it wasn’t through the love and pro\u2014 protection of socialism Father, is that it would have gone right through my head. And uh, another thing is that I want everyone know to back there\u2014 (Pause) I want everyone to know back there, is that, if Father would ever decide to make the move, to bring down the system of the capitalistic America, is that I would come back instantly to help.<\/p>\n

Greg Frost:<\/b> This is Greg Frost in the Promised Land, I’d just like to say that I’m very happy that Father and Mother came down, because it’s\u2014 it’s not every day that you have your own Father come down, and it’s\u2014 he’s been a real inspiration, and so has Mother. And all these miracles that have happened while he has been in the States, I cannot tell it all. And all the lives that have been saved, and not one person has really been hurt or injured at all down here, and that is a miracle in itself. Nowhere will you find that. And I just want to say, that if\u2014 if anything happened in the States, where we would be asked to come back, I’d be one of the first to jump up and say I’ll go. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Tape turns off and on<\/p>\n

Chuck Beikman:<\/b> This is Chuck Beikman. Uh\u2014 This is beautiful down here in the Promised Land, and everybody down here loves it. And I got a miracle to tell you all back there. It\u2014 The crane that they sent down here that I was working with, we was pulling on a\u2014 pulling with a Cat, trying to pull the Cat out, and uh, you know how s\u2014 strong that would be, trying to\u2014 straining the cable, and the\u2014 and the cable and the bar came loose. It\u2014 The bar was in the hole. And this thing flew up and hit me in the back. And it should’ve just cut me right in half. I shouldn’t even be here today to be able to tell you about it. It’s only thanks to love in Father, and I am, and if I’m needed to come back to fight there, I’ll be coming on my way, too.<\/p>\n

Tape turns off and on<\/p>\n

Les Mathison:<\/b> Hello, everybody, this is uh, Les Mathison from the Promised Land, and I’d just like to tell everyone up there in North America how much I miss the meetings, and um, how beautiful it is down here, and how we’re preparing a place for all of you, and the beauty of nature down here, plus the freedom that we have that we’re able to even make our shelter, our houses out of uh, the materials down here which are\u2014 are good enough for anyone to live in. Later on, when the sawmill is in process comes, we’ll have houses, just like there in North America, and if anything ever happens, and Father asks us all to come back to fight for the revolution, for the socialism, I will surely be with them.<\/p>\n

Tape turns off and on<\/p>\n

Paula Adams: <\/b> Um, this is Paula Adams, and I just want to say how grateful that we are to have Father here, and it’s\u2014 it’s a\u2014 really a privilege to have the greatest leader in the world with us for a few days, and I just wanted to say that um, we\u2014 we are so privileged because he has the greatest respect by the senior government officials here, ministers which are even higher in position than a Senator would be back there, have praised him. A Minister of Agriculture has\u2014 has said that he is\u2014 his leadership is so apparent because of the\u2014 the amount of work that has been done here, and Dr. [Ptolemy] Reid has praised him for his\u2014 also for his um, leadership, which is what brought about Jonestown. And I just want to say that I\u2014 I miss the meetings a lot, because there we have an opportunity to hear that greatest leader on a weekly basis, and I don’t think that anybody should ever take advantage of hearing\u2014 of\u2014 of not hearing him when he speaks, because there’s never a word that isn’t something that’s wisdom and pure and complete commitment to socialism.<\/p>\n

Tape turns off and on<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Here.<\/p>\n

Adams: <\/b> There\u2014 there’s really\u2014 the greatest protection here that I’ve ever seen in my entire life, because there is never a day goes by that there’s not at least one amazing and beautiful miracle that happens. Our lives are constantly protected by Father, and whether miles or here, he’s\u2014 his\u2014 he’s always with us.<\/p>\n

Tape turns off and on<\/p>\n

Kevan Grubbs:<\/b> Hi, my name is Kevan Grubbs, and uh\u2014 (Pause) I’d like to say how much I really do miss the meetings back there. It’s really a privilege to have Father here, to listen to him and be able to talk to him, um\u2014 (Pause) I have a miracle that proves that he’s with us all the time. Like um, we have the time here\u2014 a special time in the year when we do a burn on um, different times and acres and stuff. Well, they had just cut down about 60 acres, and I was picked to walk um, through that with um, a couple of the Amerindians here, specialists who cut through the wood and stuff, and uh, I walked through that whole thing without slipping or falling or anything. That was Father. OCause there’s no way I coulda just walked over 60\u2014 60 acres without doing it before without falling down uh, or getting hurt, and uh\u2014 (Pause) I just really thank him. And if there’s a time we had to go back, I’d\u2014 I wouldn’t hesitate to say that I’d go back. I’d go back and I’d work it\u2014 I’d do what he\u2014 I’ll go where he needs me.<\/p>\n

Tape turns off and on<\/p>\n

Unknown male:<\/b> Also I’d like to say, that it was a really great pleasure and an honor to have Mother and Father and Mike Prokes down here, and uh, because I know from the schedule there of all the crises that happen there, that even though they came down here, if Father and Mother and\u2014 and uh, Mike took their time out instead of wanting to rest, they were\u2014 they talked to us around the clock every day that they were here. And I know that all of us here appreciated it, and\u2014 and uh\u2014 I just wanted you people to know back there that they still didn’t rest when they had the chance.<\/p>\n

Tape turns off and on<\/p>\n

Deborah Touchette:<\/b> My name is Deborah Touchette, and um\u2014 just the experience of having Father down here and\u2014 and Mother is just\u2014 it’s so amazing, I\u2014 I can’t express myself, um\u2014 They’ve just been really wonderful to talk to. Father has told us all about what’s been going on in the States and how everything is right now. (Tape turns off and on.) He’s made us most aware that fascism is coming on strong and\u2014 and fast, and that America is in a really\u2014 in a hell of a state. And we have a lot to be grateful for, that he’s provided for us, this beautiful Promised Land, um\u2014 Things happen here every day that (Pause) you\u2014 we could never explain to you how beautiful the miracles are that take place here every day, although Father is not bodily present all the time, his spirit is always with us, and things are always taking place. Um\u2014 just from his talks and from making us aware of what’s going on, it really makes me feel and know that any time that he ever wanted us to come back to the States to\u2014 or anything that he wanted us to do, I would be quite willing to do it. (Tape turns off and on) I think it’s a privilege to be able to fight for the cause, and to be able to fight and stand up for what you really believe in, and I thank Father for giving us that opportunity, whenever the time comes. I think the greatest miracle that has ever taken place in my life is to know that Father has provided a place where children of all races can come, if they choose, in the time of difficulty, and the fact that he has given of himself totally\u2014 (Pause) there’s nothing left of himself when he gets through giving to us, and I think that is the greatest thing that could ever\u2014 has ever happened to me. And I just thank Father for what he has done.<\/p>\n

Part 3:<\/p>\n

Low voices.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>This thing could close down tomorrow, and all of you came home, you wouldn’t\u2014 if it was wise, I’m just so damn honest, I probably would tell her, but if we were wise, we would not tell her. (Pause) You understand what I’m saying?<\/p>\n

Several voices: Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>We got people that you’re keeping\u2014 you\u2014 if you don’t feel good about yourself, you’re keeping some people from treason by being over here. You know\u2014 You understand what I’m saying?<\/p>\n

Several voices:<\/b> Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>They’re so afraid to ask, gonna get throwed in jail, or they’re going to have to die for socialism, but you give them that one hope that they won’t have to. People you’d be disappointed in if I (unintelligible word). (Pause) But I think you’re pleased to know, all but two of the government bo\u2014 board voted to call it quits\u2014<\/p>\n

Unintelligible exchange for several moments<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You get him up for the next 18 hours, and he wouldn’t want any more than he does now.<\/p>\n

Unintelligible exchange for several moments<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Anybody could ask you a dumb ass question like this, we’re all going to die, he says, can we stay? Now what kind of member of the family would want to stay, if you all\u2014 all your family’s dying back there.<\/p>\n

Several voices override each other.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> If the head was dying. If the head\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Some of you would feel that way, yeah. Some of you are loyal enough that even if the head dies would be enough. But some people, you know\u2014 (Pause) I can understand if they were loyal enough to, uh\u2014 But all the people dying, I sure as hell don’t know why anybody would want to carry on here.<\/p>\n

Several voices override each other.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b> He thinks we’re in the Promised Land. I mean uh\u2014 in the Prom\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>He thinks he’s in heaven. Just sung “Amazing Grace,” and he thinks this is the hea\u2014 the first or second or third heaven.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b> He really does.<\/p>\n

Man: <\/b> (Unintelligible name \u2014 sounds like “Arturo”)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Hmm?<\/p>\n

Man: <\/b> (Same name)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Same name) Is that where it is?<\/p>\n

Several people laugh, then overlapping conversation<\/p>\n

Man: <\/b> They said one time, we were all sitting around the table, and (same name) said: “What is Father’s purpose here?” And he says, (low voice) “To take us all back to our (unintelligible word).”<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, I don’t want to have to take you through the fucking jungle to get you back to (Same name). (Unintelligible sentence about “extradimensional teaching”) I didn’t get the connection of (Same name) here\u2014 but what the hell’s the difference of how you get to (Same name). Who wants to go when (unintelligible phrase). So I came from (Same name), or we’re going to (Same name), who the fuck wants to go? One thing we crave is oblivion, if you know the truth.<\/p>\n

Man: <\/b> But if you get this done, while you’re down here, what you’re supposed to get done, it would be nice to (Same name) that you’d want to stay. And if you don’t get it done, you should have the consciousness to want to stay until it’s finished.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>And if you don’t re\u2014 ah\u2014 reincarnation’s a damn fact. They come back. They don’t get away. One of our traitors got their ass right back here. I promised I’d (unintelligible word) a baby to a couple that never came\u2014 never, you know, never connected. That traitor came back. And they parked that traitor\u2014 that traitor with us when they went out\u2014<\/p>\n

End of side 1.<\/p>\n

Side 2.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> What’s the\u2014 What’s the assurance you even have to get to (unintelligible phrase)?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>A strong policy of treaties with government, it’s a socialist government that’s rarely known to break there. Even the capitalist governments very slow to break a leasehold. There’s a strong right to property.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> That’s uh\u2014 this has been the big question, I know in my mind and in a few others’ minds, is exactly the type of pace that we should set, you know, for uh, for our building and for our stock and for, you know, we know the ground provisions and the\u2014 and the crops and things, but\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, Frank, I don’t want to put your own damn business. If we can’t make it, our money’s ain’t gonna be worth shit to us anyway. Just be careful. Just don’t make exorbitant (unintelligible word). I’m still not so inclined to say to (unintelligible word), I don’t know\u2014 at five o’clock, I don’t like to make any decisions.
\nPeople talk over each other.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b> It’s almost six.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>It’s twenty minutes of six.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b> Why don’t we let you get some\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I don’t care, I don’t care anything about that. It don’t bother me at all. I’m just sorry for you people. Um\u2014 (Pause) At twenty minutes of six, I don’t like to make any decisions. But before I leave, I may tell you to put $500 down on the tractor. (Pause) It’s to protect you. Money here, money there. If you’re going to have a revolution, ain’t gone do you no good nowhere. And you sure don’t want to leave it in no goddamn bank for somebody to carry away. It’s the same with capitalism. I’d rather it go to these poor people in Guyana, than to leave it for America. Yeah.<\/p>\n

Charlie Touchette:<\/b> There is a policy I think that we should get established and adhere to it, and that’s\u2014 For instance, this tractor, the one we’ve looked at is a Urahill (sp?), it’s a 120 horse wheel\u2014 power, four-wheel drive, so on and so forth. We know the price of it here. The same tractor ought to be\u2014 now that’s delivered in Georgetown, to us. The same tractor or the exact equivalent should be priced in the States, and how much it would cost to get it here. And then we could\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Put that on the radio.<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/b> Albert’s [Albert Touchette] out. (Several sentences too soft). And then we could take the best\u2014 the best arrangement, and if necessary, I still think the consistence\u2014 if it’s a matter of (unintelligible word)\u2014 I don’t know what’s\u2014 what’s the difference is, but you would say, a thousand dollars difference, it would be better to fly it here, because, if we fly it through local people, we’re still putting money into the economy, which we use that in our public relations (sounds of room over one word), plus, they are responsible for it. They got this\u2014 their own (unintelligible word) on order now, there was it seems like a hundred fifty dollars difference in price\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>And it’s better to buy here.<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/b> Better to buy here\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I agree one hundred percent.<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/b> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Such a small amount. OCause you got somebody to go back on. When this shit we’ve been sending to the States, these fuckers don’t represent it right, and you put quality parts in it, and it costs us more than\u2014 little more money in (unintelligible word).<\/p>\n

Voices:<\/b> That’s right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I’ve learned that tonight. And don’t let me forget that, folks. And if I didn’t know it before, I know it now.<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/b> That I really\u2014 I really think that, uh, have to be more of this coordination done in the purchasing, and it ought to be left up to us\u2014 or, or joint things, saying\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yeah, I trust you people. (Struggles for words) You make a joint consensus. I don’t do anything without a consensus, and I know you\u2014 I’ve watched you ask for opinions, (unintelligible name). Please keep that up, Charlie and Joyce. You ask opinions. Never trust your own judgment alone. In some ways, you gotta get a consensus and go ahead, maybe a couple of dissenters, but uh, try as much as possible to get everybody united in the process of making decisions, because \u2014 for what reason, I want that, in case something happened to you, these fuckers won’t know what the hell they’re doing. Not that I doubt your integrity. Um\u2014 the only thing is I\u2014 I wanted to say that I (unintelligible phrase) we confine ourselves to one pop a week, I remember to use pop (unintelligible phrase). Maybe it’s a cheaper drink than\u2014 (unintelligible phrase). But it’s something I never use back\u2014 back home.<\/p>\n

(Exchanges too soft)<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> (unintelligible sentence) \u2014 tea. I know I’ll drink three, four glasses of tea. (Pause) So uh\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, in your case, you’ll need all that goddamn caffeine. How much caffeine\u2014<\/p>\n

People talk over each other.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I\u2014 I think you should be\u2014 (struggles for words) I think we have to be fat. It isn’t because (unintelligible phrase), but because of your blood pressure. And the things that you wanted if you would avoid caffeine, and you might drink um\u2014 (Pause) cola, whereas some other\u2014 I don’t know how much\u2014 how often you drink cola? How many gallons of cola do you buy around here?<\/p>\n

People talk over each other.<\/p>\n

Joyce Touchette:<\/b> Some of us drink too much. I drink too much. I would say.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Why would\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>It’s bad for your teeth, it’s also bad for your kidneys, colas are. All that chemicals, dyes, plus the sugar. It’s no good, you drink too much sugar. I feel lousy when I drink\u2014 I never drink so much pop as I have here. That 7-Up makes me feel funny after the second bottle, Ocause I’m not adjusted to it.<\/p>\n

People talk over each other.<\/p>\n

Joyce:<\/b> When people buy it with their allowances. Yeah. That’s when\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, we can’t argue much about people’s allowances. I’m not going to cramp them, I can just tell them what they ought to drink. (Pause) I just saw so damn many bottles but\u2014 I didn’t have any real critical thought about it, because I know it takes a lot of bottles to give it to you once, with that large number of people. But where you can cut down costs, do so, in view of the fact that we damn well may be over here, all of us. I need every damn dime we can get. So watch where you waste any money, and think of any damn way you can raise money. I could give you some ideas (movement of equipment). And even so, as I said, if we want to leave, we wouldn’t put a lot of investment if we thought we were going to die. That isn’t the only thing we’d have to face. We might have to be willing enough to go back there, make accommodations, and keep\u2014 mark time until the right time came to start the disorder. You know, it might not be convenient that, uh, if we close this down, go home and start a riot the first week.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Umm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>So we might have to make some accommodation, and that takes money to feed people over there. It’s all I can do right now to keep that thing going, and this place too. We make no money, you know. We don’t get any money to have what I had in reserve. It eats it up. Fast as I can get it, it eats it up. Maintenance here, and the maintenance there. And that’s bad, because it’d be\u2014 it’d be a hell of a note if I didn’t have this commune. (Sentence too soft). Uh\u2014 The uh\u2014 so save where you can. (Pause) But don’t be town-wise and pe\u2014 penny wise and pound foolish. (Unintelligible word) the damn tractor, if you’re on the farm, you get the tractor. That’s not that big enough consideration. (Pause) It’s big, I don’t mean to minimize it, $25,000 is no easy thing. But uh, the sawmill makes us I think more desirable to the country.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/b> It ought to make us money.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yep. They ought to make us money.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/b> So everybody get\u2014 everybody else has to go all the way downriver to get their wood. We can certainly supply the national service. They’re growing like heck up there.<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> They got their sawmill of their own working.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/b> Oh, they got one?<\/p>\n

Several voices:<\/b> Right.<\/p>\n

Male 1: <\/b>Well, so much for that idea.<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> I\u2014 I think this is a big plus\u2014 plus in our favor that, GNS, Guyana National Service, is strictly 100% the idea of Prime Minister [Forbes] Burnham, and our relationship with GNS right now is just perfect. We have a very good relationship, I feel, both here and in Georgetown. (Pause) It was to the point that when we\u2014 when we chartered the boat \u2014 we chartered to bring our shipment up here, we chartered from GNS, and Ernie Matthews was the one who put the load orders on the boat at the same time. In fact, he told the dock that uh\u2014 the Minister of Agriculture, Gavin Kennard, and he said his\u2014 he had to get on that, on the (unintelligible name). Well, he found out real quick from uh, the second-in-command of GNS that Peoples Temple had preference on that boat. All of our equipment, plus the trucks were going to be on the boat before anybody else got anything on it.<\/p>\n

Male 1<\/b>: That’s a plus\u2014<\/p>\n

Soft voices.<\/p>\n

Male 1<\/b>: By the same token, GNS had the preference over everything in Guyana\u2014<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/b> That’s true.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>First off, any time a GNS person comes (microphone moves) they want, maybe I shouldn’t get so nervous and demanding. We won’t get demanding, or nasty about this.<\/p>\n

Joyce:<\/b> And also I mention (unintelligle word) about the fertilizing that they did\u2014 (Equipment moving) about the fertilizing which allowed us to bring in anything, it was an all-inclusive uh, license.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>No no no, that’s the important thing. Keep me in focus. If you all get nervous about this thing that uh\u2014 just because they don’t meet with your equity bureaucracy. Plus it could be the simple fact that he’s got so many goddamn narrow-minded religionists in his government\u2014<\/p>\n

Tape cuts off for 30 seconds<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2014 I think, if they can say that way out here, we (microphone moves) so much trouble for me, sure need to say it at home.<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/b> We\u2014 we said it earlier, you know. We have uh, gotten the p\u2014 permission (clears throat) to have movies out here. We now have a schedule worked up where they can be brought here and taken back so that we pay the minimum amount of money on them, uh\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>But did you do that collectively?<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/b> Right. And uh\u2014 the cokes are here, like we send them twice a week, and uh, if people go to Georgetown, their entertainment’s taken care\u2014 care of. So\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You’re giving\u2014 You’re giving them something. They need that. How many feel that way about Alonzo’s?<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b> We’re really happy to see him out here.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> I got money, saving up (unintelligible word), doing it now.<\/p>\n

Several people talk<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I want to record that, it’s no matter what they vote. (Stumbles over words) Was that an unanimous vote? No pi\u2014 Don’t be reactive\u2014<\/p>\n

Another male: <\/b>Anybody disagree with it?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>How many\u2014 How many feel that (stumbles over words) we don’t need allowances?<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> We don’t\u2014<\/p>\n

Another voice:<\/b> We don’t need allowances?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>How many feel we don’t need any allowances?<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Oh, don’t?<\/p>\n

Several people talk<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2014said, now, now Mom, when you\u2014 all right, when you want to go get your hair, all you have to do is talk to me, and I’ll give you hair.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> So that’s the same for me? OCause you need guitar strings\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>OCause you have a right\u2014<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> He provides your guitar strings\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You understand what I’m saying? What do you think about it?<\/p>\n

Several people talk<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>OCause you saw, when we had a hospital bill, we paid all those bills.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b> All right.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Because it’s all from\u2014 it’s all\u2014 You know\u2014 because, if we ever want to establish or get to that point of the ultimate socialist goal, it’s\u2014 it’s part of it. And why hold on to something?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>First place, you (unintelligible phrase) goddamn money when I was going to give it (unintelligible word). Some asshole’s gone steal it\u2014<\/p>\n

Several people talk<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> So it’s agreed, we don’t get an allowance no more?<\/p>\n

General assent.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Who’s\u2014 who’s here that didn’t vote?<\/p>\n

Several voices: Jack Baron. And Jerry [Livingston].<\/p>\n

Several people talk<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> He’s on the boat.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Ah, well, what kinda books you wanta read, huh?<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> I like reading music books and stuff like that. (Moves awake from mike)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, I think you can buy some music books. (Unintelligible sentence) You get outrageous, over and above what the allowance would be, you need to need to keep your music skills trained, Ocause who knows what the hell you have to play? You may have to play that revolutionary march.<\/p>\n

General laughter<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b> I don’t think any reasonable request has ever been turned down.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>So, uh, that sounds reasonable. Keep yourself adept in your school, uh, training.<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/b> The uh\u2014 the only problem we’ve ever come up with is, some of the requests get a little bit ridiculous.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Such as?<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/b> Well, you know, uh, this\u2014 Joyce announced that we got tennis shoes on the shipment. And immediately Jack needed a pair of tennis shoes. Goddamn tennis shoes are (unintelligible word) new. The ones he’s wearing on his feet now, you know.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Wearily) Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/b> But because\u2014 because the uh, the\u2014 it’s there and the request can be made, they think they gotta have them, you know.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, that’s (thudding sound) adds on a whole help of trying to be a public censor against that kind of stuff.<\/p>\n

Joyce:<\/b> Well, but he didn’t get them.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>He didn’t get them. (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Several people talking<\/p>\n

Joyce:<\/b> I made him\u2014 and it was the same way with the boots (unintelligible word).<\/p>\n

Several people talking<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, that’s fair. And I’m pleased to hear some of you saved up so much money, Ocause (unintelligible word) you haven’t been a doing a whole lot of planning and wasting your time. You’ve (unintelligible word) able to save up money like that.<\/p>\n

Several people talking<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Five [dollars] Guyanese.<\/p>\n

Joyce:<\/b> Umm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You tell these assholes back home (voices clash) two bucks a week. OCourse, I admit the inflation’s higher there. Still, five dollars a month is not as much as two dollars\u2014 two dollars a week\u2014<\/p>\n

Joyce:<\/b> Well, everything here is really in U.S.\u2014 the only thing that’s cheap is soft drink and movies. Everything else is\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>High\u2014<\/p>\n

Joyce<\/b>: You know, like the guitar strings are imported. And you pay not only the regular price, but the shipping cost, too.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>That’s why we ought to get the list of what he needs and send it ho\u2014 on home. (Too soft) (Pause) Hell, eight dollars\u2014 he get eight\u2014 there’s four and a third weeks a month. If they get eight\u2014 eight dollars and thirty-three\u2014 eight dollars and sixty-six cents. Eight dollars and sixty-six cents American, is um, $20 of Guyanese money.<\/p>\n

Several people talking<\/p>\n

Joyce: Cost of music books can be\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Plus we got all that electronics shit and games, which I want to send. That’s going to cost us one pretty penny, too, if we don’t hide that. OCause they see that thing come in, they’ll charge us a hell of a tax on that. It’s heavy. And I think that game would while away your night hours.<\/p>\n

People talk too softly.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>We have to go away and leave it to the goddamn people.<\/p>\n

People talk too softly.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Anybody can play it. It’s amusing. I like to watch them play it. Get really skilled at it, Ocause you can s\u2014 roll the (unintelligible word) ball and curve the ball. Requires more acumen than it really does intelligence.<\/p>\n

Several people talking<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/b> I think we ought to carry this right on in, into the day. I don’t see any sense why we should\u2014<\/p>\n

Another male:<\/b> It’s getting daylight now.<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/b> So I think the dish crew from last night ought to get in and do the dishes. We can continue talking\u2014 (people talk over him). I think the regular crew ought to get in there and start fixing breakfast.<\/p>\n

Several people talk.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>That’s a good spirit. We do it so damn much at home.<\/p>\n

Charlie<\/b>: The fact of the matter is, you’ll be glad to stay here, and if you think about all the shit they do at home\u2014<\/p>\n

Several people talk.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I don’t mean\u2014 (things moved about) One thing you know, you won’t have to stay up all night with P.C. [Planning Commission], right\u2014 (too soft). Cut that yellow shit down. I think times you need to, you know, test your pressure, though. Because uh, uh\u2014 but you better explain why you’re doing it, Ocause you’re ever interrogated, they sure ain’t gonna talk to you nicely. So I tell our people, they ought to get accustomed to being yelled at. That’s the only thing I hate about (unintelligible word), is because one thing that makes you (unintelligible word), someone’s yelling at you, you know (equipment moved) in the hell you’re gonna behave if you’re ever put under\u2014 under heavy questioning by the fascists. But the only problem is with yelling, is, is, it paralyzes people from thinking. They “yes” to whatever the hell you say to them, and unfortunately, they may be “yessing” something like Arnold did, but they yelled at Arnold. Well, not so much. He “yessed” them anyway, and the next day, he went out and did shit.<\/p>\n

Sounds of leave-taking<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Who’s watching? Hah? Just watch yourself. That’s what I feel. I feel so bad if anything happened to you, Ocause of these all-night affairs so\u2014<\/p>\n

Joyce:<\/b> Maybe one\u2014 maybe one of them should\u2014<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/b> Debbie [Touchette]? Why don’t you\u2014 You ride up behind me on the way out, okay? And Gary, get\u2014 You talk to those workers, don’t you? You know a few of them? Why don’t you get one of them to sit behind me and ask to talk to you coming in? Okay?<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Will you\u2014 We always use this bus driver when we have an all-nighter ordeal.<\/p>\n

Charlie<\/b>: And you know he’ll pick you up tomorrow evening, don’t you, Gary?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>In all fairness, [Eugene] Chaikin, when we went to this\u2014<\/p>\n

Tape cuts off.<\/p>\n

Part 4<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2014 he was right there. The Trotskyites wanted to start too early. We gotta have socialism working in People Temple before we try to export it. And that\u2014 that’s right, but\u2014 but they went along too far. The Russians made accommodations with the Germans, [Leon] Trotsky’s greatly upset, they\u2014 they made accommodation with the German army. (Pause) Where do you become a compromiser, and where do you expediently wait your time for war revo\u2014 for revolution. If we go back home and attempt (microphone moved), sadists become as capitalists, we are\u2014 we’ve sold out.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b> But we shouldn’t do that. We still save, uh, the minority races, don’t we, if we\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I\u2014 I think we could save the minorities in our ranks, but we should never, never save the minorities outside.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b> That’s what I meant.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>They always need somebody, you see. To uh, go along with the system is a (unintelligible word). If we went along with the system, that’s ever\u2014 I think it’s a very dangerous road to take.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> To stay with inside the system and try to survive? You too?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>It’s a very dangerous thing, a very murky road.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> I’d rather\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I think people could easily get\u2014 so\u2014 some of the people in our ranks could become a part of it and lose their identity and want to survive. But again, we don’t start our goddamn revolution until you’re ready. Or you get a disorganized flip-flop, and you \u2014 you dirty the name of socialism. Premature vio\u2014 violence is called by socialist thinking “adventurism.” And the adventurers have caused a lot of trouble. People just want to throw a rock to throw a rock’s sake. You don’t throw a rock until the rock will do some goddamn good. I’m not talkin’ about rocks.<\/p>\n

Several murmurs of assent<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You understand. It’s hard to know the course of history, and that’s why you got to have good leadership and good thinking. So if you can stay around a little and work longer, get yourself a little stronger, get yourself spread out a little wider\u2014 (Pause) I been doing things on different levels. I been filtrating a few people outside the movement in the certain ranks of, of, of (unintelligible name), which I don’t want to go into. And all our people are not inside the movement. (Pause) Don’t have enough outside, but I do have some outside. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> I never knew what really caught me about\u2014 about your activities, just not in Peoples Temple, Ocause whenever uh, you uh, uh\u2014 (Pause) I don’t know how to say it, Chaganooga Choo-choo. The Chaganooga Choo-choo.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yeah. Shit, they want to know about Rosewell. Roseville?<\/p>\n

Several voices:<\/b> Umm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>They don’t know where the roses bloom. I’ve said it publicly. I don’t know why the hell they haven’t bothered it about us\u2014 bothered about it. Full of shit, but they don’t bother us about that. I guess they didn’t want to give us any credits. I think they were afraid if they could\u2014 if there was that successful a revolutionary group, it would cause others to come to the surface. So they finally went on record in saying it was an act of nature. (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Yeah, that’s the only reason why I\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Act of God, I think they said.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, that’s true, or of the only god there is. (Pause) They\u2014 they were on\u2014 they closed the case. Well, that’s a little hard for them (Things moved about) They can do anything. They can say, we did that to give us news and later (Things moved about). Well, they can’t. There’s limitation. No there isn’t. On treason, there’s no limit. On capital crime, there’s no limit, and on treason, there’s no limit. So, 35 years later, they can bring it up, if they want to. And when they’ll bring it up is when I’m weak, in their eyds\u2014 eyes. When we got traitors going out like Arnold (phrase too soft), say ah, here’s our time to strike at\u2014 The cobra of capitalism is wise. That’s why the fucker who calls us treasonous ought to be dealt with firmly.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Didn’t uh\u2014 how did the uh\u2014 like, the revolutions before \u2014 like uh, the Moscow and (unintelligible word) \u2014 I know the few instances that uh, that Fidel [Castro] got with it, but like, how did\u2014 how did they dealt with it at their time? What\u2014 did they just execute the uh, traitor if there was, you know, if\u2014 if it was possible to catch them?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, I’ll give you an example. Fidel, traveling up the hills of Sierra Mastre, and some son-of-a-bitch decided he wanted a little nooky. He went down and got some nooky, that sure as hell he felt (unintelligible word) treason \u2014 he got the nooky and he started there and he wanted to stay and have the nookies, so the only way he decided he could stay and have the nooky was to deal the local Bastitite secret police [police of Cuban dictator Fulgencio Batista], (unintelligible word) secret police.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Umm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>So he stayed back and had his nooky and started going back, and that’s when he’d give his information to Batistas, was to go back and make love (unintelligible word), give your permission to the secret police there, keep it\u2014 be sure you k\u2014 go in and out and see his girlfriend. That’s why sex has been such a murderous thing in the movement. Here’s your socialism. Well, Castro got\u2014 Castro got wise to it, and they uh, waited for him to come back one day. The bravura as you know is a surgeon, and this guy had something wrong with his mouth, I guess, and so he wanted to open up (soft word) (makes sound of gunshot), he blew his brains out the back side of his head.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Hmm.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(unintelligible sentence) They caught him, they caught him. He had betrayed them, and found out that’s where\u2014 he was getting their information and they were getting\u2014 their buddies were getting shot, one by one. Castro got down to nothing but a baker’s dozen, Ocause of this son-of-a-bitch \u2014 I’ve forgotten his name, I can’t keep all the history that I was once was\u2014 Ocause I was a historian of socialism at one time\u2014<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> This may sound like a, a stupid question, but I can see cracks through\u2014 I know, I know why we don’t deal with traitors\u2014 I mean in that type of a sense of letting their brains go down through their feet or something, but uh, why uh\u2014 why don’t we deal with them? Like Jim Cobb and Linda. I can’t\u2014 Dad, I can’t understand\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You see, it’s a different thing when you got a hill you can run to and hide, and protect your group, than it is when you’re in the midst of a sea, if you do something, you got no place to, to hide. OCause when you start killing your enemies, you goddamn better well be prepared to fight.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Umm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>And when everything is lost, then you can kill your enemies.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Well, what would they\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>When they see the revolution is going\u2014 it’s, it’s coming, and you’re going to fight it, then take it\u2014 you can have\u2014 (struggles for words) take care of your enemies.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Well, what reason\u2014<\/p>\n

Exchange of three voices unintelligible.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2014make sure as hell. Unless you got a most\u2014 if, if you got both of them, uh, Linda gets scared, and she heard about it and say, you know, they’re coming after me, and she’d squeal.<\/p>\n

Exchange of three voices unintelligible.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Hit it all at one time, yeah.<\/p>\n

Several voices.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2014every son-of-a-bitch that went out, that’s right. Even the mild-mannered sons-a-bitches, because the mild-mannered would get paranoid, and think he gone get it too. See that? You get Oem all.<\/p>\n

Exchange of several voices unintelligible.<\/p>\n

Second male:<\/b> You have\u2014 you have taught us to\u2014 to learn from our enemies, you know. And this is what the FBI did, if you remember, in the McCarthy era [anti-communist U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy (R-WI)], they, they, they shut down the whole country as far as the Communist Party, when at one time, at one (unintelligible word), they did it all at one\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Confiscated their assets, put their whole money into the receivership, every dime they had in the bank, every dime the organization had in the bank, and every dime any socialist fund had, (unintelligible phrase). 60,000 strong, it was just a movement for peace. Anything \u2014 I don’t mean just socialism \u2014 anything that had to do with peace, brotherhood or justice, their money\u2014 they grabbed their money and tied\u2014 tied Oem up. (Pause) It’s tough, boy, when they come after you.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> What did\u2014 well, what did [Russian Communist leader Vladimir] Lenin do, or any\u2014 anyone else, now, before, uh, pre-revolution, what did they\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Ask me a good thing for them to die\u2014 we want to give people that are (unintelligible word) and I (sighs) it’s so hard\u2014<\/p>\n

Second male:<\/b> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Lenin was poisoned from within his own ranks by those who wanted to kill the revolution, because Lenin was an internationalist. Lenin believed and preached that you (unintelligible word) start a revolution simultaneously in all nations. Till the Stalinists murdered him. In a cawa\u2014 In a dasha outside of Moscow, they poisoned him and he died slowly.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Hmm.<\/p>\n

Third male:<\/b> (Struggles for words) Why did he believe to start his own (unintelligible word) when always\u2014 obviously some countries would be more ready\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I don’t mean to sound fancy. He believed we ought to try to (unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> Is that possible?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Everywhere, he said\u2014<\/p>\n

Several voices compete<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>He\u2014 he knew\u2014 he’d do the best he could do with the team.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/b> I could understand\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>He just felt like, you’re going get in this nationalist shit, and he said workers of the world, unite. Get the workers stirred up all over. It was not important to build a communist country per se. [Josef] Stalin came along and said you’ve got to build a communist country first as an example, and he was probably sincere, but he went too far the other extreme. Lenin was sincere, but he was going too far in the extreme of uh, wanting to start too many revolutions at one time. (unintelligible short sentence) And even when he got to the point where he didn’t believe, he\u2014 he was going on that you should establish the first Comintern in Russia and build Russia, his own goddamn people got paranoid about him, some of them, and killed him, thinking he was off the deep end. Then you’ve got petty jealousies, too. Capitalism doesn’t die easily. You have people in my ranks who are jealous of leadership for leadership’s sake, they didn’t believe in him. They believed he was uh, seeking power. So others thought he was\u2014 they want power too. They didn’t realize Lenin didn’t want any power. Lenin was a very good man in that sense. He was a good man. He\u2014 he was seeking power only as a means for revolution. Not as good a (unintelligible word) that I am today, he didn’t know as much about himself as I do today, I can tell you that by reading his writings, without knowing anything past life or reincarnation, I can tell you he didn’t know as much about me, uh, uh, himself as I know about me. But anyway\u2014 Paranoia is a high\u2014 hell of a thing, and it can trigger many a bad reaction. And they poisoned him on two different occasions. He withstood the poison, and they (unintelligible word) the poison, but uh\u2014 that’s what happened.
\nTape turned off and on, microphone moved.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2014 everything’s gotta be (unintelligible word), gotta be delivered in one package. You know socialist history usually interprets that he had strokes, or premature arteriosclerosis. And he did have arteriosclerosis, but that’s how it took. On two different occasions, he was poisoned. I know it because it was something that happened to me. And I did some study after I had some experience, Ocause I don’t take metaphysical (unintelligible word) to home. (Pause) I’ll always be shook up and wakened by that thought of being poisoned. Poison poison poison. (Short unintelligible sentence). Some of you in here today (equipment moved for several seconds), hall it’s\u2014 whatever they call that goddamn farm bureau, it’s farm\u2014 no, not farm bureau\u2014 what’s that hall there in Redwood Valley?<\/p>\n

Several voices:<\/b> Grange?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Grange. They gave me medication after I went through that surgery for the bowel, and uh, they gave me too much of it, it triggered me off on some shit, and I was gone about two, three hours, and throwing fuckers out of the place and throwing Russian at Oem and everything else, and (stumbles over words)\u2014 told Joe Phillips he was a traitor\u2014<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b> (talks over Jones) Sure did. I remember that.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Went after their asses right and left.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b> He told uh, uh, Virginia Erickson\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I can speak in broken English, but I spoke mostly Russian. And it’s a hell of a goddamn thing, when I’ve gotten\u2014 I fortunately got a letten\u2014 lesson in discernment about that, so I never trigger back into that anymore. But in those days, that was some son-of-a-bitch that had to watch me. I did it right in the fucking hospital. They gave me some medication for pain (struggles for words), I was having a lot of pain, I had to get out of the hospital to take care of business. There’s always some trai\u2014 traitor I had to fight all along, I couldn’t stay a long length of time, so they gave me\u2014 Joyce gave me some medication, I went out, and I told the fuckin’\u2014 uh, I greeted the fuckin’ doctor who spoke (something dropped). I greeted him\u2014 greeted him as a fellow communist.<\/p>\n

Laughter.<\/p>\n

End of tape<\/strong><\/p>\n

Tape originally posted November 2001<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1, Pt. 2). Part 1 Male 1: (cuts into conversation) \u2014working with Mike [Touchette] on the road, […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":362,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-27467","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27467","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=27467"}],"version-history":[{"count":8,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27467\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":131729,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27467\/revisions\/131729"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=27467"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}