{"id":27474,"date":"2013-06-16T00:20:23","date_gmt":"2013-06-16T00:20:23","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/alternativejonestown.com\/?page_id=27474"},"modified":"2014-03-25T01:11:15","modified_gmt":"2014-03-25T01:11:15","slug":"q589","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=27474","title":{"rendered":"Q589 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Side 1<\/a>, Side 2<\/a>).<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2014 talking about\u2014<\/p>\n

Man: <\/b>\u2014 communicating with her on that level.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>She knows news and aware that she\u2019s not\u2014<\/p>\n

Man: <\/b>Yeah, I think she has got that awareness.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2014she hadn\u2019t got her head in the sand. Okay. Well, we can debate that. It\u2019s not that\u2019s audible anyway, they say, in Marceline\u2019s house.<\/p>\n

Inaudible reply.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>In our house there, it\u2019s not that audible. Okay<\/i>, well, I think we may take a chance. (Pause) Anybody have ob\u2014 any objections? We need somebody<\/i> to go back that can meet the press.<\/p>\n

General hubbub.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2018Cause you got reason not to go back there and lie<\/i>. Either she\u2019s not<\/i> principled \u2014\u00a0she got two kids \u2014 and if (stumbles for words) the Olivers [Howard and Beverly Oliver, members of Concerned Relatives]\u2014 if we\u2014\u00a0we\u2014\u00a0now see, that\u2019s what\u2014 we hadn\u2019t done anything to met with the Olivers, but those sons-a-bitches were crazy<\/i>. They didn\u2019t want to meet<\/i>. They wanted to cause all kinds of shit<\/i>. We\u2014 we are not fools<\/i>. We would have done anything<\/i> to kept some kind of rapport<\/i> with them. But they insisted<\/i> on kidnapping married<\/i> people. That\u2019s how damn dumb foolish<\/i> they were. \u2018Cause we would\u2019ve rather had them on a talking<\/i> relationship, even though we didn\u2019t like them\u2014 Even after what they did to Marceline, we still<\/i> were trying to work out the goddamn thing some way, but those people\u2014\u00a0those people were paid, just like they said on that radio<\/i>. She slipped and said that money involved. Twenty-five hundred<\/i> dollars she mentioned, I believe it was a sum. Twenty-five hundred dollars, what a\u2014 Sell your children out for twenty-five hundred dollars. That\u2019s\u2014\u00a0There\u2019s too mu\u2014 That\u2019s the trouble with a lot of relatives, yours\u2014 she doesn\u2019t sound like that, rule or ruin. Either they got you under the nose 24 hours a day, or they\u2019ll ruin you. But she doesn\u2019t sound that way, because you been gone for nine months. She may possessive, all relatives are. And as your brother said, (unintelligible word) more interest in you than anything else<\/i>. Because you marry her narcissism, and uh, that\u2014 you\u2019re part of her extensions of hers, possessions. Uh, but uh, she\u2019s not as possessive\u2014 but the Olivers<\/i> was under the rule, had to be under the rule for 24 hour\u2014 and there more to it than that, don\u2019t make any sense. They knew they weren\u2019t going to win. They knew<\/i> they weren\u2019t going to win. They were told by the ambassador, they were stupid<\/i>, they were told that they were cutting off their uh, nose to spite their face, there was money<\/i>. \u2018Course we know he\u2019d been in a crime racket, Johnny [most likely Johnny Jones] had been\u2014 worked<\/i> with him, he knew what kind of shit he was pulling.<\/p>\n

Johnny:<\/b> (comes in from off mike) \u2014It was everything from bookies to running stolen credit cards, stel\u2014 selling liquor to po\u2014 police, taking and receiving stolen goods from police, selling stolen goods, um, he um, he even dealt in po\u2014 pornography.<\/p>\n

Man off mike: Perfect agent. Perfect agent.<\/p>\n

Johnny:<\/b> So, uh\u2014<\/p>\n

Man: <\/b>No morals. So he\u2019s a perfect agent. Sell out his own children.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Twenty-five hundred dollars awful cheap, I would agree, Bates. Well, I think that\u2019s what we\u2019re gonna try to do. I think we\u2019ll bring her in here, because I don\u2019t like Georgetown with no lights. She gonna wonder what the fuck<\/i> is going on out here, if there\u2019s no lights in Georgetown.<\/p>\n

General hubbub.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(High laugh) What\u2019d you say?<\/p>\n

Woman talking too far away from mike.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yeah, that\u2019ll be good.<\/p>\n

General hubbub.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, we\u2019ll fix that up, \u2018n little snacks for her, find out what she likes, \u2018n send her back. She can be a good P.R. person for us. If the shooting goes on, just say you\u2019re hunting, that\u2019s all. I don\u2019t know. Shit. I don\u2019t\u2014 Anything can happen out (unintelligible word), I\u2019m gonna tell you. If we conduct the goddamn war, and you just keep her interested till they\u2019re out there hunting, and there\u2019s a tiger or some\u2014 (laughs).<\/p>\n

General hubbub.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>They damn near got in Charles Garry\u2019s house<\/i>, they almost had a raid getting his house, the sonofabitch, we made it through that. (Laughs). He thought it was paradise, (Laughs) didn\u2019t he? He left and wrote in an article, it was paradise\u2014<\/p>\n

Man: <\/b>We walked him through the jungle in the rain.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Laughs) Walked him in the rain. He\u2014\u00a0Shit, he\u2014 he\u2014\u00a0to miss things, he was\u2014 he\u2014\u00a0oh, well, that\u2019s something else. Our life is in the book. Okay. Have any second thoughts, anybody have any questions about it, let us know. I\u2019d say, bring her in.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>It would be better for them to meet her and bring her in.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>No, no no. Why\u2014\u00a0why\u2014\u00a0why the expense of going in? What the hell the expense? (stumbles for words) They\u2019ll take, pick her up, pick her up, and take her there and put her on an air<\/i>plane. If she times it right, they ought not\u2014 they ought to tell her to time it right, so she\u2019ll have a couple days waiting there. That\u2019s one thing, you ought to be on the phone. Time it right, so she don\u2019t get hooked on two days in Georgetown. I don\u2019t mean hooked<\/i> on it, I mean, just hooked\u2014 hanged\u2014\u00a0hung on it.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>Do you know the exact date she\u2019s supposed to arrive in Georgetown?<\/p>\n

Answer too soft. \u2014 she\u2019s leaving on the 21st?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>She\u2019s leaving the 21st?<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>So she\u2019ll get in there the 22nd.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What is the 22nd? (stumbles over words) The flights come, what? Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday?<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>Wait, wait, I\u2019ve got a calendar here. Just a minute.<\/p>\n

Someone else talks<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What?<\/p>\n

General noise<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> No, what days do the, do the flights come in?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I\u2019m talking about the flights.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> What day they getting to Georgetown?<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>What time is it?<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>When do they leave from Georgetown to here, is that what you\u2019re talking about?<\/p>\n

General noise.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(tired voice) I didn\u2019t\u2014 Damn it, I (unintelligible word) sonofabitching White Night ends before she\u2014 (deep breath)<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>What day\u2019s she leaving?<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>21st.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>21st is Friday. So she\u2019d be coming in here on Saturday\u2014\u00a0into Georgetown on Saturday.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Unn-unn (no).<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>Saturday night, so that she doesn\u2019t leave early Monday morning.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>She\u2019ll have to stay Sunday. She can leave Monday, but that\u2019s<\/i> not too long.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>That\u2019s just one day. She\u2019ll probably want to sleep all that day anyway. (Laughs) From jet lag.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yeah, that\u2019ll be good. Just rest her up on Sunday. (Voice livens) It\u2019s a nice place. There\u2019s one room there, it\u2019s air-conditioned, as I remember, in Georgetown. (Pause) Okay, good enough. That\u2019s what we\u2019ll do. Inform Georgetown accordingly. They\u2014 They\u2014 Inform them on that, that\u2019s what our plans are. We\u2019re talking about telephone, we would have in the middle of a White Night. No radio. (Pause) Okay. (Pause) Any little<\/i> things that she likes, please give us all of her eccentricities, will you? She don\u2019t like cats, or she don\u2019t like this, or she don\u2019t like that, well, I mean every little thing she don\u2019t like, please let us know, hear?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> Molly\u2019s writing them\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You got\u2014 you hear me, all of you?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> She go\u2014\u00a0she goes back and comes (unintelligible) for us and wanted\u2014 everybody\u2019s relatives think, then they can come over here and see their people.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yeah, well, that\u2019s all right, everybody\u2019s relatives may think they can come<\/i> over here and see them, but everybody\u2019s relatives may not<\/i> get over here, because we may have a, an airplane strike, or we may have a mud slide, or tiger loose\u2014<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>(off mike) (unintelligible name \u2014 probably Karen?) would you give her that information?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Said other relatives will think that their relatives have a right to come. (slight sarcasm) We\u2019re not bringing this person because she\u2019s a relative, dear. (Pause) So this isn\u2019t open season for all relatives. \u2018Co\u2014 we can\u2019t go through<\/i> this night and day. She\u2019s upon us. She\u2019s already on us. You understand what I\u2019m saying? We\u2019ll have to wait till we get some shi\u2014 some damn controls<\/i> over there, then we can bring<\/i> people. Right now, it\u2019s survival. She paying her way, and she bringing medical things to donate to the place, and that will help us, thermometers for you that we all need badly, and other things. So, we\u2019ll use<\/i> the situation that\u2019s upon us. We\u2019re not inviting her, she\u2019s coming<\/i>. So we make the best of it, you see. And when the next person dawns on us like that, they\u2019re coming, then we\u2019ll have to decide how we do\u2014\u00a0cope with that<\/i>. But I don\u2019t think we\u2014\u00a0Everybody surely understands that we can\u2019t now automatically say this is everybo\u2014 every relative come. Shit, I\u2019d rather have a White Night<\/i> than have\u2014 to\u2014 to put on\u2014 \u2018cause we\u2019re gonna be under pressure, all the time the woman\u2019s here<\/i>, we\u2019re gonna be under pressure that some son<\/i>ofabitch won\u2019t come up to her (Pause) and say something. You know<\/i> we are.<\/p>\n

Scattered: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n

General crowd noise off mike.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>It\u2019s a point, darling (Darlene?), but I\u2014 I\u2014 I\u2014 I don\u2019t w\u2014 see the point. Her<\/i> point is, if Yvette\u2019s mother goes back and\u2014 Sandra\u2019s mother to the States for uh, P.R. purposes and tells everybody how beautiful it is when she finds it will be here, as it is<\/i>, then won\u2019t everybody\u2019s relatives think they can just pack up and come see their relatives, then won\u2019t we have chaos, because we\u2019ll have a million thinking (stumbles over words) then on our backs about coming over here, and all these points, the point, (unintelligible phrase) discuss it, but\u2014 we got<\/i> the woman coming and, by God, in Georgetown, I just thought we could use<\/i> the wom\u2014 use it. Uh, but we need some P.R. They\u2019re lying<\/i>, and we got nobody to\u2014 but somebody\u2019s that connected with us, tell<\/i> \u2018em, this woman not a member<\/i> of our church. That\u2019s the advantage of it. And she not our lawyer<\/i>. We need somebody that ain\u2019t seen this place, that can talk<\/i> about the beauty of it, that (struggles for words) they can\u2019t say, well, we\u2019re paying<\/i> \u2018em. They can say that too, but it\u2019s not going to have as much effect with a woman who\u2019s not ever been a member of church and attended just a few times.<\/p>\n

Woman in crowd: <\/b>Can we send pictures back with her?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Sure. Ought to. Ought to send pictures back.<\/p>\n

Another woman: (fades in) I think there\u2019s many of those (unintelligible word\u2014\u00a0suckers?), they don\u2019t want to pay their own way, even if they did<\/i> belong to the church.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>I think \u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>I think that is a point. I don\u2019t think they\u2019re too many of them that\u2019ll want to pay their own way, and she has an advantage in that her husband works for an airlines \u2014 is that right? \u2014 and others don\u2019t<\/i> have that advantage, and I don\u2019t think there\u2019ll be the onslaught\u2014 (short laugh) Well. I think maybe we can\u2014\u00a0I think maybe we can talk to her about how to handle this.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I\u2014 I think that you\u2014 there ought to be said that they, that uh, she ought to say<\/i> that we uh, don\u2019t have our guest<\/i> housing yet, but uh, she\u2019s staying with her\u2014 with her family and uh, I don\u2019t\u2014 I don\u2019t know what the hell to say about that. Shit. But it\u2014 It isn\u2019t her business. She won\u2019t have to worry about that. We just say that we just can\u2019t bring in a lot of people, that they say that they naturally (Pause) \u2014\u00a0uh, though I\u2019m not a member of that church, they\u2019ve had people try to infiltrate them, that\u2019ve conspired, and they ac\u2014 actually tried to do them harm<\/i>, came in to shoot<\/i>, and so they\u2019re careful about who comes<\/i>. I think that\u2019s damn\u2014 that gives us a damn clear message to be careful. We can work on how we say it. (Long pause) Too bad we can\u2019t bring 15 folks and get it over with one time. (Pause) Hmm?<\/p>\n

General crowd noise and conversation.<\/p>\n

Man in crowd: <\/b>What about rally nights?<\/p>\n

Second man: <\/b>No\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What is it?<\/p>\n

Second man: <\/b>\u2014about rally nights.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>Rally nights.<\/p>\n

Third man:<\/b> What about the rally nights?<\/p>\n

Second man: <\/b>\u2014 have a program\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, she uh, she can uh\u2014<\/p>\n

Second man: <\/b>\u2014 have a program\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2014having have agriculture and uh, some rally nights, (unintelligible phrase) and M\u2014 Marceline or the family can\u2014\u00a0they can down there and entertain her while we\u2019re having uh\u2014 \u2018cause she sh\u2014 won\u2019t hear<\/i> the rally night down there. We can have an\u2014\u00a0we can have an entertain<\/i>ment night, she\u2019ll sure like that. Movies. Movies, she\u2019ll like that.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>Yeah I would\u2014 I would like for the family to, you know\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Be sure to put some mosquito spray\u2014 \u2018cause we didn\u2019t used to have mosquitoes. Do you realize we didn\u2019t have mosquito, one<\/i>? Just a few months ago, and now we got mosquitoes<\/i>. Which is a dreadful shame. But um\u2014 We ought, I think, put some sprays so that\u2014 what? What?<\/p>\n

Voice too soft.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Marceline says she had no mosquitoes down there, but anyway, there are some\u2014 There are<\/i> some. When you go to the movies, there are some. When I been moderating the movies, these little fuckers like<\/i> the movies.<\/p>\n

Laughter.<\/p>\n

Man: <\/b>Gotta wear socks\u2014<\/p>\n

Tape cuts off, probably only a few seconds.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>Alan, I would like to say that I\u2019d like for Sandra and Yvette and Julius and the family and whoever to feel free to use the front porch<\/i> down there, and they can\u2014\u00a0they can entertain her there, freely<\/i>, unless\u2014 sometimes during the day I use that porch for meetings, but I\u2019ll keep from that from happening. I don\u2019t<\/i> want it to become a general announcement that everybody comes in here is going to move in and live with Mother. \u2018Cause, um\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You shouldn\u2019t even tell her she living with Mother.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>(Sighs) I do\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>She has lived in a nice house.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>I do a lot of work, and um\u2014\u00a0during those two weeks I mentioned, some of it\u2019ll be pr\u2014\u00a0I can put it off or go someplace else\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You\u2019re out, that\u2019s important (stumbles over words for several words) She\u2019ll go back, and they\u2019ll\u2014 somebody\u2019ll\u2014\u00a0somebody\u2014 even though she\u2019ll be honest about it, they\u2019ll say, (mimicry) well, that\u2019s a nicer house. That\u2019s all. They got a pa\u2014\u00a0They got a me\u2014 They got an estate<\/i>, and everybody else is living in a hut<\/i>. (Speaks quickly) That\u2019s the way they always do, that shit. (Pause) People\u2019re liars, and they, they specialize in lying. I wish somebody someplace in the world would specialize in the truth<\/i> like they specialize in lying.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Mar\u2014 Mother didn\u2019t even ask for that. The last\u2014\u00a0they had it\u2014 Lisa, and Lisa wanted her to have it. Lisa\u2019s the one that had the house, now she intended to have it for, from then on. Lisa and Sister Perkins and\u2014 Lisa and um\u2014 (clicks lips) no no no no.<\/p>\n

Prompts from crowd<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Huh? Cher\u2014\u00a0Oh yeah, yeah. Cheryl. Yeah, I\u2014\u00a0uh, let\u2019s see\u2014<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>As a matter of fact, there was ah, I had to work through a lot<\/i> of emotional adjustment, because that\u2019s where I\u2019d been to see my mother-in-law. And for a while it was\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Marceline talks over first short sentence) Let\u2019s don\u2019t get into that.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>Okay. But anyway, um\u2014 (Pause) She\u2019s welcome. That\u2019s all I can say, but I wouldn\u2019t want it to be public knowledge\u2014 (Voice breaks off with emotion)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>The whole fact was, we wanted to watch, after (unintelligible word \u2014\u00a0having?) cancer, that\u2019s uh, that\u2019s why Lisa\u2019s<\/i> over there, she went through that in (unintelligible word), we wanted to have an air-conditioner available, and we wanted to be\u2014\u00a0Marceline there for the same reason, to observe<\/i>, \u2018cause the air conditioner makes things easier<\/i> if it has to be used, but she don\u2019t even use the air conditioner either.<\/p>\n

One voice: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Neither did Lisa. (Pause) I don\u2019t know if we had no gas, I never heard the thing on. (Pause) You haven\u2019t had it on one time either, no, I know. That\u2019s why it\u2019s there. That wasn\u2019t built for us. That was built for that purpose.<\/p>\n

Voice too soft.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>Too bad you couldn\u2019t have mansion, you both deserve it.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yeah, that\u2019s sweet of you, that\u2019s sweet of you. (Pause) I\u2019d just like have ah, uh, six months with no White Nights. (Laughs) I\u2019d settle for six months, living in a swamp on a\u2014\u00a0on a boat bare-assed.<\/p>\n

General hubbub.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>But it\u2019ll come<\/i> through, we\u2019ll come through. Hell, we went several months with relatively peace. Things come in cycles.<\/p>\n

One voice: <\/b>Right<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>There\u2019s a way out of the morass, but we gotta start talking now about the shit. Gotta look at every a\u2014\u00a0odd\u2014 (Pause) Just say that, uh, just explain that, uh, that, that I\u2019m out in the fucking fields<\/i>. Tell her that, that\u2019s a good point.<\/p>\n

Voices too soft.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I\u2019ve explained\u2014\u00a0I\u2014 I\u2019ve explained, it\u2019s a\u2014 it\u2019s the uh, house where we put people who have any lung problem for the time being<\/i> and so, that\u2019s\u2014\u00a0that the hi\u2014\u00a0that\u2019s the situation.<\/p>\n

Voices too soft.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yeah, yeah, if people have it\u2014 difficulty breathing, then every other disease is in good shape here, and it is. Arthritis does better, heart does better, everything does better. Blood pressure. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Man: <\/b>(fades in from off mike) I think you ought to control the situation here.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Of course the Olivers\u2019 brothers would be among the few people who would be talking to her. Well, that\u2019s true. They should\u2014 (unintelligible word) helping to convince her that their grandmother\u2019s saying (unintelligible phrase) lying, and this would be living proof<\/i>, the example that their lives here are very happy ones. (Pause) Okay. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>(off mike) I know one thing, uh. (on mike) She uh\u2014 She is uh\u2014 I\u2019m impressed that if she talked to the Olivers\u2019 grandmother and is willing to wait this long to see Yvette, because when I called to have a phone patch with her, and she was at work when she\u2014 we had the phone patch, and she broke down and cried and she said, you have made my day. She was so touched<\/i> and so happy<\/i> to be able to talk to Yvette over the phone, and as uh, attached<\/i> as she is to Yvette and to wait for two or three months to come and see<\/i> Yvette after hearing all the negative shit that I know the Olivers gave her, really<\/i> shows<\/i> that there is some character in that woman.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I\u2019d like a word changed. It ain\u2019t negative. It\u2019s lies.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>Lies is right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>It\u2019s one thing, I\u2019d like uh\u2014 you goddamn people, we say negative shit, because I\u2014 these\u2014 these people are outrageous. The onl\u2014 only truth I ever heard come out of their goddamn mouth was that<\/i> point, the point that they couldn\u2019t come in here, and that\u2019s the damn truth. We wouldn\u2019t let them in here. We stood up and said to the government, by God, they\u2019re not<\/i> coming in here, and the government\u2019s s\u2019posed to control who can come in the interior, but we decided on that White Night that we<\/i> con\u2014 we<\/i> control the interior, \u2018cause they didn\u2019t come. They had their charter already arranged, and gonna come in here. They was gonna bombard us with a whole bunch of fucking relatives. Gonna s\u2014 There\u2019s land in here in the airstrip, and we said, they do<\/i>\u2014 (short laugh) that\u2019s there\u2019s responsibility. \u2018Cause they ain\u2019t coming any further than the gate. (Pause) And that shows you got clout. I mean, that\u2019s what\u2014\u00a0remember when they going to dump all them fuckers on us?<\/p>\n

Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>They gonna drag in that Mazou [detective Joe Mazor, hired by Concerned Relatives], that criminal, who is organ\u2014\u00a0organizing the whole thing, that they gave\u2014 California\u2014 that shows how high your conspiracy<\/i> is, too, that\u2014 you better believe this. Governor [Jerry] Brown passed him on a detective license, he had a 75-page criminal record\u2014\u00a0some of you better\u2014\u00a0they\u2014 I think we got it in the library, you ought to go and spend some time in the library and read his record. The one that started the conspiracy, that was the front man, that worked with Mertles [Elmer and Deanna Mertles, aka Al and Jeannie Mills, who helped establish Concerned Relatives] when they first started, and Grace [Stoen]. Seventy-five page criminal history. (Incredulous tone) And they gave him a license to be a detective? It\u2019s against the law. And we asked Governor Brown why he did it, and Governor Brown, sellout sonofabitch, said (dramatically) a lot of important people spoke highly of him. (Pause) Didn\u2019t even botter to\u2014 bother<\/i> to address himself to the issue. Let him keep<\/i> his license, even though we gave him all this evidence. (Stumbles over words) They didn\u2019t let him keep his license, he participated<\/i> in it. It shows you can\u2019t trust<\/i> folk. Here a liberal, so-called liberal progressive, who\u2019s been framed himself years ago, said they tried to\u2014 (Pause) When New West <\/i>tried to paint him as a homosexual, and everything else, he sold out<\/i>, he went along<\/i> with it. He went along with it<\/i>. We got the letter somewhere. Somebody ought to dig it out and show you these good, liberal people. Fuck<\/i> these good, liberal people. I don\u2019t have no faith<\/i> in any of them. They\u2019re as bad as the fucking fascists.<\/i> (Pause) Imagine giving a man with 75-page criminal history, when the California law says they cannot ho\u2014\u00a0be\u2014 hold licenses to be a policeman. Imagine<\/i> giving somebody that\u2019s been in and out of the can for ten years, (pause) in and out of the can on numerous<\/i> charges, bilking<\/i>, I don\u2019t know what the hell, fraudulent\u2014 forgery. You name it, he did it. He\u2019s done it. Masquerading<\/i> as a lawyer. Everything. And now he got a license, and all Governor Brown says is several important people came out on his behalf to get his license. Yeah<\/i>. Several important members of the fascist conspiracy, trying to overthrow the United States. Wake up, back there, now, some of you folk going to sleep on us, early in the day. (Pause) Yes, uh, Brother Jones.<\/p>\n

Young<\/b> Jones: <\/b>I\u2014 I\u2019d like to say, uh, Dad, if\u2014 if you, to uh\u2014\u00a0you have to be, you know, a very strong person, you know, to be back there and listen to the lies that, that the uh, Olivers, you know, said about this cause. Because if it wasn\u2019t for the fact that I\u2019d been<\/i> in this cause, you know, as long as I\u2019ve been in, and have known, you know, you and your character<\/i>, you know, I wouldn\u2019t be standing here today, you know, because just before I came over, uh, I heard, you know, a lot of lies from<\/i> her, you know, about this cause. She said, you know, things like uh, uh, that Father, you know, didn\u2019t have any power, you know, and uh, how much she wanted her sons<\/i>, you know, to come back and get, you know, the money that uh\u2014 (unintelligible word) that had been waiting for them, you know, and I think she\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Unintelligible word of interruption) Yeah, I\u2019ll bet. Waiting for her.<\/p>\n

(Soft voice in crowd)<\/p>\n

Young Jones: <\/b>Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Umm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Young Jones: <\/b>Yes, that\u2019s that\u2019s\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>That\u2019s just a lie. Those\u2019ll be lie. Anybody can get their money. You can get your money. If there\u2019s money for them, they can get money any place in the world.<\/p>\n

Young Jones: <\/b>That\u2019s true. And um\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Lawyers can tell you that, that\u2019s a bunch of bullshit.<\/p>\n

Young Jones: <\/b>And you know she played\u2014 she\u2014 she played\u2014\u00a0tried to play on, on, on the emotions, you know, on, on my<\/i> emotions, you know, like about, uh, uh, Billy and uh, you know, Tanya\u2019s uh marriage? She played on that very<\/i> strong, because she knew how I, you know, felt about Tanya, you know, and um, uh, uh, she tried to make it sound like that\u2014 that\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>She tried to get you shook up about that arranged marriage?<\/p>\n

Young Jones: <\/b>Yes. Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Laughs) Did you\u2014 Did nobody bother to tell you it was an arranged marriage?<\/p>\n

Young Jones: <\/b>Uh, yes, they told me, uh\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>That the church had?<\/p>\n

Young Jones: <\/b>Yeah, Leona [probably Leona Collier], Leona told me, and\u2014<\/p>\n

(Jones and Brother Jones talk over each other)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Hell, we was finding\u2014 we could find\u2014 we could find the first woman that would be agreeable, and she was a principled woman in this, and we got\u2014 (Short laugh) and we were getting fast around here, honey.<\/p>\n

Young Jones: <\/b>Yeah. (Laugh)<\/p>\n

General laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I can assure you, it was just paper<\/i>, that\u2019s all.<\/p>\n

General conversation.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, it\u2019s awful hard when she were\u2014\u00a0if it were somebody you were\u2014 and if it were somebody you were infatuated<\/i> with, honey, that\u2019s the biggest test. He\u2019s here.<\/p>\n

Young Jones: <\/b>Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I wouldn\u2019t be too hard on him. He\u2019s here<\/i>. He thought it\u2014<\/p>\n

Interrupted by quiet voice.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>If you thought your uh, girlfriend (short laugh), somebody you were in love<\/i> with had married another man\u2014 and look<\/i> at that, how dirty that\u2014\u00a0look<\/i> at that dirty bitch. Look how dirty that wo\u2014 that bitch is. That\u2019s cold bitch<\/i>. (Pause) Trying to get you<\/i> upset, and that means you\u2019d have to be upset with her son<\/i>, too. (Pause) Dirty<\/i> bitch. Wicked<\/i> bitch. (Pause) A conspirator<\/i>. Somebody\u2019s telling her. She ain\u2019t that clever on her own. They\u2019re telling her where to play the ballgame, trying to get you<\/i> turned, they\u2019re\u2014\u00a0they\u2019re right behind them, with money, and instructions.<\/p>\n

Young Jones: <\/b>She said if uh, she said\u2014 the thing that she said, she said like uh, uh, uh, uh, you see, you see\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Let\u2019s hear it. Important\u2014<\/p>\n

Young Jones: <\/b>\u2014 you see what they done? She said\u2014\u00a0she says, uh, they\u2014 they took your<\/i> lady, and made her marry Billy, you know, knowing that me and Billy were, you know, at one time we were very, you know, close in the States.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Laughs.<\/p>\n

Young Jones: <\/b>And also Ruth (?), we were all close in the States. And she know\u2014 knew that fact, so she played on that, you know, she said, if I was you, I wouldn\u2019t go, you know, to Jonestown. I wouldn\u2019t\u2014\u00a0I wouldn\u2019t have any uh, uh dealings with Jim Jones, you know, she said, but you have your own mind, you know, she say you do what you wanted to.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(sarcastic) Isn\u2019t she nice? She\u2019s so nice. She gone have her own mind, until we catch her (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Right. (Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>She better\u2014\u00a0she better enjoy her life while she can. (Pause) Uh, that ain\u2019t no shit, ain\u2019t it.<\/p>\n

Male<\/b> (Probably either Bruce or Bill Oliver): No shit.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Here\u2019s her son talking. He\u2019ll\u2014\u00a0he\u2019ll\u00a0now address himself to the situation.<\/p>\n

Oliver: <\/b>Uh, first\u2014 first of all, wh\u2014\u00a0what the situation was, when Mom\u2014\u00a0wh\u2014<\/p>\n

Laughter.<\/p>\n

Oliver: <\/b>All right, wh\u2014\u00a0when my mom came down here, she put Dad through a whole bunch of bull<\/i>shit, and they demanded<\/i> to see me, when I didn\u2019t wan\u2014<\/p>\n

Interrupted by unintelligible cries from crowd.<\/p>\n

Oliver: <\/b>And um\u2014 okay. And they deman\u2014\u00a0They demanded<\/i> to see me, when I didn\u2019t want to have no dealings with them. And what they was\u2014\u00a0And what they did, is they went to the, uh, ambassador of Guyana and tried to put a whole bunch of pressure on Dad, which I didn\u2019t like that\u2014 I didn\u2019t even know. And I\u2014 I don\u2019t want no dealings with the lady, whatsoever, \u2018cause she started whole\u2014\u00a0she\u2019s\u2014\u00a0I\u2014 I consider her class one<\/i> enemy of the people, being that she\u2019s<\/i> my natural mom. I consider her a class one enemy, and uh, as far as me and you, Larry, me and you are still close and stuff, and I\u2014 I don\u2019t think they shouldn\u2019t never affect<\/i> me and you, as far as what she told you. \u2018Cause\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(unintelligible) \u2014you with Cynthia.<\/p>\n

Oliver: <\/b>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh\u2014<\/p>\n

Man from off mike: <\/b>That\u2019s right, man.<\/p>\n

Laughter.<\/p>\n

Oliver: <\/b>What I meant, uh, uh, it didn\u2019t have\u2014\u00a0what she said to me<\/i> didn\u2019t have any<\/i> effect on my relationship<\/i>, you know, to this cause, you know, had any effect, any effect\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I think he was try\u2014 I think we tried to be complimentary, that\u2019s why I said to this mother, who\u2019s very principled over here too, bu\u2014 Brother Bates, why do you listen<\/i>, I say, I say, that\u2019s a big ballgame, till you\u2019re in<\/i> that shit, you don\u2019t know how you gonna affect, and he\u2019s being honest, I don\u2019t think we ought to stomp<\/i> on somebody. He\u2019s here<\/i>, and that\u2019s the best proof of the pudding. He\u2019s here<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead, son.<\/p>\n

Oliver: <\/b>Yeah, um, that\u2019s\u2014 that\u2019s, you know, what I was, you know, trying to, you know, convey to the people, you know, that uh, that, if\u2014 if, you know, I didn\u2019t know, you know, Father\u2019s character<\/i>, and didn\u2019t know what he stood<\/i> for, that that could have affected<\/i> me, you know, and uh\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I\u2019ll bet it could. When you thought your, your lady had married (Breaks down in laughter)\u2014\u00a0some other\u2014 That\u2019s rough.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>(fades in from off mike) \u2014 other girl\u2019s mother must have some\u2014\u00a0some character, too, \u2018cause she hasn\u2019t been around as much as he has.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, he made it, she ought to make it, because we\u2014 uh, we haven\u2019t done anything like (struggles for words) I don\u2019t know what they could pull, although they probably said we have Yvette whorin\u2019 around in the streets. (struggles for words) Them people are mean. I would\u2014 I wouldn\u2019t be surprised if they told her anything. Yvette\u2019s whorin\u2019 around in Georgetown, probably, that\u2019s\u2014\u00a0I\u2014\u00a0they\u2019re\u2014 they\u2019re wicked. They\u2019ve told everything. Last thing I heard they told, that Mo\u2014 Mother and I, the way we keep ourselves here and try to take over the government, that she gives sex to men<\/i>, and I give sex to the women<\/i>, leaders\u2019 wives in the country\u2014 country, and that\u2019s how we keep in\u2014\u00a0that\u2019s how we\u2019re a\u2014\u00a0able to pull this shit.<\/p>\n

General conversation.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Ah, wicked liars, wicked sonsabitches. And I got<\/i> something with that bitch. And I love this boy, couldn\u2019t love him any more if he was my own. He is<\/i> my own.<\/p>\n

(Tape cuts off) (End of side 1)<\/p>\n

(Side 2 starts after five minutes of blank)<\/p>\n

Applause.<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> Al\u2014 also, Dad, you know, like uh, like when you know, I was back in the States, we uh, you know, I used to do a lot of security, you know, and uh, I used to always be, you know, always in the back parking lot, and that\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>And faithfully<\/i> there, yeah.<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> And uh, I used to uh, watch<\/i>, you know, uh, the dad, you know, pass by every afternoon, you know, he\u2019d pass by and he would slow up and look in the parking lot, you know, as if, you know, it was some kind of gesture like, he wanted to do<\/i> something, you know\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yeah.<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> And, uh, the, the mom, she, she rides around, you know, all the time too. And she\u2014 she\u2014 even when she plays<\/i> on your emotions, she tries to uh, to, to make it sound as if uh, um (pause) what we, you know, standing<\/i> for, you know, are wrong, which, which, you know, undoubtedly, that\u2019s untrue<\/i>, you know. Uh, I\u2019m sure she had to be\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Why, what we\u2019re standing for?<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> Yeah, you know, socialism, you know.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Is that socialism<\/i> was untrue?<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, that\u2019s where she makes her poorest case, anybody\u2019s got any sense. (Stumbles for words) She actually openly tried to attack socialism<\/i>, huh? \u2018Course they did that on the steps, I know they all<\/i> did that on the steps.<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> She\u2019d do that, she\u2014\u00a0she\u2019d do that, you know, in every conversation that she talks to people. She\u2014 she\u2019s got it fixed where she makes everything sounds the same, you know, uh, uh, it\u2014\u00a0her stories\u2014 she sticks to\u2014 she gets her one story, and she\u2019ll stick to that one story, and she\u2019ll tell everybody<\/i> basically the same thing, you know, and that\u2014\u00a0and\u2014 and\u2014 that\u2014\u00a0if you\u2014 you hear it from different people, and it makes it sound<\/i> to people who are not a member of this cause, it makes it sounds like it\u2019s true<\/i>, you know, and I\u2019m sure she\u2019s been well-rehearsed on that, you know.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yep. Yep. Shift, please. Well-rehearsed. Well-brainwashed. Shift. Move your fe\u2014\u00a0your legs, your feet, your hips. (Unintelligible phrase)<\/p>\n

General hubbub as shift occurs<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> We used to have\u2014\u00a0Dad, we used to have\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Passing out water through here? And washing them\u2014 washing them properly? (Pause) (Voice is subdued) Okay, let\u2019s don\u2019t get no shit started, \u2018cause we\u2014 we\u2019re the army of socialism here.<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> Um. After\u2014 after we\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(sharply) Be quiet. (Pause) Yes, son\u2014 go ahead, son.<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> Af\u2014 After, you know, we had the conversation, you know, I went right on upstairs, you know, and reported<\/i> it, and um, I had a few sessions, you know, a few counseling sessions afterwards, because I think people were, were more concerned about where my ah, cons<\/i>ciousness were\u2014 was.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> It was Dad\u2014\u00a0It was Dad that was concerned about you, and he\u2014 and he directed that. \u2018Cause no one else has that type of empathy but Jim Jones.<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> That\u2014 well, thank you, Dad, \u2018cause, you know, it really, you know\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>However, I made no push to get you over here. I had\u2014 You were needed there, and I did not have any feeling you were going to commit treason. Sometimes I\u2014 So I\u2014 I didn\u2019t make any push to br\u2014 to bring you over here. So I saw that much character in you.<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> Thank you, Dad. Thank you.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I knew\u2014 I knew you could sort the shit from the other, and\u2014 and get over here. When you get over here, then it all settles. You can see the truth so clearly. Takes a while<\/i>. Sometimes people don\u2019t realize they didn\u2019t\u2014 they thought they knew what socialism was till they got here, and then\u2014 then they had to learn what it really is all about.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> I thank you, Dad, I, you know, that\u2014 (short laugh) you know, really\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Shh!<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> That really, you know, relieves ah, you know, my mind a lot, you know, to know\u2014 I know that you\u2019re concerned about, you know, all of us, you know\u2014 and to know that you\u2019re concerned, you know, personally<\/i> about each and every one of us, that really gives me a lift<\/i>, you know, and makes me even want to strive harder<\/i> to make sure that this land is produce for all of our people that are still back there, because it\u2019s a\u2014\u00a0it\u2019s really a struggle back there, \u2018cause you go through a lot of\u2014 of lot of changes in your mind, you know, a lot of things come across your mind<\/i>, when you\u2019re back there in the States, and uh uh, you think about here and you know you want to be here, and you know that you have to do your job there<\/i>, in order to make things what it should be, you know, and I really appreciate, you know, your concern<\/i>, you know, for me in that instance and in all the instances that I, you know\u2014 you know, since I\u2019ve been in this cause and this movement, you know, and I really appreciate that.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Thank you, son.<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> Okay.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Unintelligible aside)<\/p>\n

New male:<\/b> Uh, and uh uh Larry, Larry, far, far as uh, uh relationship between me and Tanya, it was arranged. (Unintelligible) I mean, you are still real close.<\/p>\n

Laughter. Scattered applause.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>He\u2014\u00a0he don\u2019t want no trouble with you or<\/i> Cynthia.<\/p>\n

Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>It was arranged, it wasn\u2019t nothing to it but principle<\/i>, that\u2019s what it was for. Principle. Lot of marriages like that here, so don\u2019t anybody, nobody be nerved about that. Hell, you\u2019d never know who was really with who by who\u2019s married to who. We been doing that for years, to try to save people from somebody trying to hurt some member of the family, some family being irate, hostile, and lying. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>Um, Dad, I ran into her, and she said that, uh, Dale Parks, she saw him in Berkeley, and that he talked to her and said that he wasn\u2019t coming here, under what, uh, whatsoever, and\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Now all we need is to send a picture of Dale\u2014 maybe he needs<\/i> to get on that interview too, and have some words back there.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>\u2014 and um, she\u2019s\u2014\u00a0she works<\/i> at some hospital or something, but the message got back, uh, that she\u2019s going around the hospital telling people that ah, Georgetown is a poverty area and she is sure that Jonestown looks just like Georgetown, and that (unintelligible) her sons could live here, and that\u2014\u00a0 She admitted that the money that they were supposed to have gotten or whatever, that she was going to keep it herself, \u2018cause she needed it more than they did, um, but she was going to use it for bills and, you know, like that.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Oooh, and that\u2019s what\u2019s hanging her up\u2014<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>Umm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2014\u2019cause she can\u2019t get it, because they\u2019re<\/i> in it. Ah, that\u2019s<\/i> good, let the bitch<\/i> worry. They\u2019re sure not very happy, running up and down the streets, looking into our fan\u2014 fences, and spending night and day talking to newspapers about us, that\u2019s\u2014\u00a0that\u2019s not a happy people.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You think we\u2019re unhappy, but we do have moments and joy and now and then fellowship with each other and good fried chicken and a movie and some card games that we (unintelligible word) play\u2014\u00a0I\u2019m not talking about myself, my happiness is never<\/i> there, I\u2019m just talking about your<\/i> happiness. Because I\u2019m always too busy worrying about the welfare of the people<\/i>. But uh, they\u2014\u00a0that\u2014 those people not happy, night and day they keep this shit going? You can\u2019t be happy trying to get at somebody night and day. Shows<\/i> how unhappy they are. All their money that they been bought off with, whatever they can get out of capitalism has done them no good, because they don\u2019t have any peace.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>When she came to talk to me, I had\u2014 I brought Harriet [Sarah Tropp] in because I thought, what she was concerned about was Billy and ah, Bruce being able to get their inheritance<\/i>. But then<\/i> I found out that what she was concerned about was, she<\/i> wanted part of the inheritance to pay bills, and she even went so far as to say, you know, it\u2019s like you with Stephen. You know, I\u2019ve spent a lot of money, growing them up, and you know, I want some of this money. And I said, you know what<\/i>? It\u2019s not that way with Stephen and me, because I<\/i> feel guilty for bringing him into this world, and I feel like I owe him<\/i> everything and he owes me nothing<\/i>. But this is where she was coming from. She<\/i> wants that money, and she wants him back there to sign it over to her.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>It was very, very clear, because we explained to her that a person\u2019s\u2014 a person\u2019s inheritance is theirs, and they don\u2019t have to come back anyplace or, you know, to get it. They\u2014 He could\u2019ve, you know, made arrangements through the U.S. Consul<\/i> here.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>That\u2019s why I know that somebody\u2019s paying her money. She got to deliver the goods. It\u2019s the same old scenario, same story with John [Victor Stoen]. Got to have<\/i> the person. They\u2019re not<\/i> interested in the person. She said she\u2019s interested in the money, so she\u2019s not going to give<\/i> him any money, and it\u2019s supposed to be their money, so why is it she wants to deliver them? \u2018Cause there\u2019s more<\/i> money if she delivers. That\u2019s the whole purpose of it.<\/p>\n

Voice:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>She\u2019ll get more money if she delivers. Then she\u2019ll get something else when they get through, but she\u2019s stupid. (Pause) Stupid. I don\u2019t know how people can live themselves. Go ahead.<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> In San Francisco, just about a week before we came here, we was in, uh\u2014 and few of us was in uh, Army surplus and Harry Williams walked in, and uh\u2014<\/p>\n

Several members of crowd:<\/b> Oh. Harry.<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> Me and Herbert Hurt was in the other part of the store, and uh, my companion was in the other part of the store and I was in the other part of the store, and I saw\u2014 I saw him walk up to her.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Walk up to who.<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> Glenda. He walked up to Glenda. Glenda Polite, and uh, he asked her was she still in the church, and she said yes. He said, are you going up to, to the (unintelligible word \u2014\u00a0sounds like “FBI”)? And at that time, I walked up, you know, pulled her away, and I\u2019d asked her, wh\u2014 what was uh, he saying to her? And so he said uh\u2014 she said he was asking me was I going over to the (unintelligible word \u2014\u00a0sounds like “FBI”)? I said, what did you say? She said, eventually. He said, well, if I was you, I wouldn\u2019t be going over there, because you don\u2019t know what you\u2019re getting into, and he was trying to tell her a whole bunch of negative shit.<\/p>\n

Man in crowd: <\/b>Eh, excuse me, (unintelligible name \u2014 Joe? John? Jerome?), ah, ah\u2014 there\u2019s one thing I\u2019m curious about, uh, why didn\u2019t<\/i> you people that getting this information, why didn\u2019t you tell all this before<\/i>, before now<\/i>, I mean, why didn\u2019t you let us know what was going on right when it happened, I mean, when you came down, you coulda told us then. It\u2019s\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Because, it help\u2014 it helps security, it helps security. I<\/i> not surprised at Harry Williams. He\u2019s a walking dead man. (Struggles for words) If Harry Williams can tell that kind of shit, he must be out of his mind. How many times I\u2019ve raised him from the dead, (struggles for words), well, he never did have a mind of his own, \u2018cause I don\u2019t know what they got on him, they got something on him, that\u2019s why Harry has to go along. They got something on him.<\/p>\n

Young man:<\/b> I did report. I report it to San Francisco. Reported to Hue Fortson.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I warned him, I warned him, I warned him. Well, they didn\u2019t tell<\/i> us. They should\u2019ve.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>Could I tell you how\u2014 to show you how devious they are. One day, I got a telephone call from Rosemary Williams, and she was acting like she was very concerned about me<\/i>. (Pause) (Dramatic) Mother, I want you to know, that I realize what you\u2019ve given up\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Oooh\u2014<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>And any time you need me\u2014\u00a0Rosemary Williams (stretches out words) called me.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>That\u2019s what they\u2014 they set up to do this. This is the conspiracy<\/i>, honey. They\u2019re not that intelligent. They\u2019re set up<\/i> to do this shit.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>And I quickly told her that I\u2019d given up nothing<\/i>, that there was nothing else to live for, for this cause, and I had no need for her. But it\u2019s so devious<\/i>\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>And that\u2019s your daughter Suzanne [Jones] that\u2019s behind that<\/i> shit.<\/p>\n

Woman in crowd: <\/b>Mother, she must have forgotten the interview you had with her when (mike moved, unintelligible) ol\u2019 Williams talked to Amanda now. She must\u2019ve forgotten\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What\u2019s that? What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>I said, she\u2014 for\u2014 for Rose\u2014\u00a0Rosemary Williams to have said a lie like that to Mother, she must have forgotten the inter\u2014\u00a0I mean, the confrontation she had had when ol\u2019 Williams stopped Amanda and I on the street in San Francisco and gave us all that lying ass shit. I still\u2014 I brought it over here. You ought to see it. It\u2019s a little\u2014 I just took down all<\/i> the little things that he said to us, and there must be a million of them. And uh, we\u2014 you\u2014 you\u2014\u00a0someone says, why do you listen? We<\/i> listen because we co\u2014 we wanted to get all the shit we could get, \u2018cause we couldn\u2019t get back fast enough to report it.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Laughs.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>But uh\u2014 gee\u2014\u00a0I, uh\u2014 after that confrontation, I\u2014 I don\u2019t foresee how she could have the nerve<\/i> to come to you and say anything, Mother.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2018Cause she told the truth<\/i> there, how beautiful it was, and\u2014 and stood up against him<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Another woman: <\/b>On top of that, Williams said all this shit to us, and he hadn\u2019t even been<\/i> over here.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yeah. Then lied\u2014\u00a0turned around and lied about try\u2014 doing it.<\/p>\n

General conversation.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>They think, you know, just trying to divide\u2014 And people have tried that with me down through the years, you know. I love you, Marcie, but oh, Jim, and that makes me so damn<\/i> mad, when anyone pulls that kind of crap. And just try<\/i> to pull it, and you\u2019ll find out.<\/p>\n

General conversation.<\/p>\n

Another woman: <\/b>I think what\u2019s really messy about it, they have to come in a goddamn<\/i> bunch before they can face you. And when you meet \u2018em by theyself, they\u2019re scattering like beetles on the fucking\u2014 (voice trails off)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I hope they told on that, now tonight, I want told, ain\u2019t nobody else have no news conference on our steps again since. (Pause) Say get off of here, we\u2019re\u2014\u00a0off our property, and we order you off of the property, now<\/i>. And there ain\u2019t nobody else stupid enough, to take a goddamn paper<\/i>. Hue should have never\u2014 black man stand there, taking that goddamn petition with all these relatives on there.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You look weak, you look weak when you do that<\/i> shit. That\u2019s what I\u2019m<\/i> concerned about. Makes you look damn<\/i> weak. It only encourages them more. The more you look weak\u2014 if we\u2019da look weak here, we wouldn\u2019t have been here today.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>All right, what were some of the things we said we had to talk about, so we\u2014 I\u2019m sick of hearing these sonsabitches, I\u2019m\u2014\u00a0fuck<\/i> \u2018em\u2014 I\u2019m\u2014 I\u2019m gonna bury \u2018em one day. (Pause) Or better yet, leave \u2018em alive, and let \u2018em eat on themselves. I sometimes think that\u2019s the best fate for these pricks, \u2018cause they\u2019re obviously so unhappy, all they can do is try to mess with us. Let \u2018em ea\u2014\u00a0live and\u2014\u00a0live and eat on themselves. (Pause) Tim Stoen used to hate Mertles so bad, he couldn\u2019t stand to look at her, and then to have them on the same steps in the same conference? He couldn\u2019t stand Liz Forman, he said he\u2014 he\u2014\u00a0he just\u2014 she just upset<\/i> him to even be around her, and now they\u2019re all<\/i> together? Now, you know<\/i> those people don\u2019t like each other, they hated<\/i> each other. Some of the folk that are in that circle on that front steps of our church, couldn\u2019t stand to be e\u2014 seen<\/i> with each other. So they\u2019re desperate<\/i>, honey. They are goddamn desperate<\/i> when folk\u2014\u00a0I mean\u2014 I remember Stoen come to me, said that, that Liz Forman made his skin crawl. Now there she is with him. (Pause) His skin\u2019s crawlin\u2019, that\u2019s how important it is the\u2014 to try to get back to us, \u2018cause everything\u2019s shot out from under them. They\u2019ve lost their hope<\/i>, their purpose, their meaning for existence. And they want to get rid of us<\/i>, because they know they shit in their nest. The only chance they had to be<\/i> something, and have something in this world. They shot it down. (Pause) And they know<\/i>\u2014 they\u2019re such little people, they don\u2019t know our capacity even to forgive<\/i>, although I mean (stumbles over words as he laughs shortly) my capacity\u2019s gettin\u2019 more realistic. But being that they<\/i> would never forgive any kind of shit, they, they feel well, they\u2019ll never get<\/i> here, \u2018cause they\u2019ve done too much shit<\/i>, so (Pause) they\u2019re going to try to tear it up so nobody can have it. (Pause) Is what they hope<\/i>. You understand their psychology? So I don\u2019t know if some of you ever understand anything, \u2018cause you never look up here, like you\u2014 I don\u2019t know what you\u2019re\u2014 you got\u2014 you got pubic lice on your balls back there? I don\u2019t know what your trouble is, but some of you never never<\/i> look up this way<\/i>. (Pause) Uh, are there two termites fuckin\u2019 under the ch\u2014 under the seat?<\/p>\n

Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Laughs) The one sister I think must try to masturbate with her nose, her head\u2019s so low.<\/p>\n

Laughter<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Claps hands) Holy<\/i> in there. (Pause) How many expected this when you got to the Promised Land? (Laughs) Shit, I did. I didn\u2019t look for every detail, but I knew that life\u2014 anything worth having gonna be worth a struggle. (Pause) Take a look at this beauty. You never had one day, you couldn\u2019t set around in Philadelphia or Chicago or Detroit or San Francisco\u2014 take a look at those trees out there. And one day\u2014 that\u2019s worth a hell of a lot, just to be able to look around there and feel that breeze, one day.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Right. Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Step out\u2014 Step outside in some of those cities, the last trip we took through there, just where we came, you\u2014 goddamn, you\u2014 you couldn\u2019t step off the bus and breathe<\/i> because your, your damn lungs would freeze<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Then when you\u2019re in Los Angeles, you cry from just trying<\/i> to breathe.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You don\u2019t appreciate it enough he\u2014\u00a0we take a lot of things for granted here, you know. (Pause) Hmm? (Pause) What\u2019d you say, [Christine] Bates?<\/p>\n

Voice inaudible<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What are you saying, Bates? Get it over, get it over to her. Bates is wound up here this morning.<\/p>\n

Christine Bates: <\/b>The hoodlums are after our folks, and our boys, and grabbed them, and when we went to the bank to put our money in, the\u2014 everyone want to grab and fight \u2018em and everything, and we out here where we have peace, happiness, and comfort, and everything in the world we want. We don\u2019t have to be worried with, when we cross\u2014 (unintelligible word) just to cross the street.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>And it\u2019s true. (Pause) Well, what, um, what order do you think discussion should be? I ain\u2019t producing this goddamn land until I get certain measures of, of security. Life doesn\u2019t have ever guarantee, but I want certain measures\u2014 (Pause) I want some things resolved. (Pause) Or on the road to be re\u2014\u00a0resolving. (Pause) That\u2019s the way I feel<\/i> about it, you see? (Pause) For taking mid-afternoon\u2014 well, whatever. Go ahead, let\u2019s go. We won\u2019t talk about that. (Pause) Somebody want to say something? Somebody raise their hand. Yes, Christine?<\/p>\n

Woman (probably Christine Bates still):<\/b> Uh, did I understand that they uh, expected us to uh, employ some of the uh, uh, native people here?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(firm) No. No, that\u2019s not been a demand, (stumbles for words). That was long ago. We\u2014 we crossed that one White Night. When they wanted to move folk in, we said that we weren\u2019t going to have that, because we\u2014 they could be spies<\/i> in our ranks, no, huh-unh. They not trying no shit like that<\/i>. I don\u2019t even know what the fuck<\/i> the battle\u2019s over with right now. What is it? It\u2019s the doctor<\/i> and the pharmacist. That sonofabitching doctor and pharmacist ought to feel popular<\/i>. (Pause) (Laughs) The goddamn\u2014\u00a0We\u2019ve had more white news over you.<\/p>\n

Voice (Marceline?)<\/b> inaudible.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What (tape cuts off for two seconds) we fighting over? Customs, customs, the sonsabitches, to let loose of our medica\u2014 medicines. (Pause)<\/p>\n

(Tape off for several seconds)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>That\u2019s good. (Pause) Okay. She was just saying, it was wonderful how I felt to let people off last night to rest, because uh, the uh, Cathy\u2019s [could be Cassandra Minor, who gave birth on April 30] starting into labor. So if anybody needed little\u2014 if you need a little more\u2014\u00a0That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Thank you, Dad. Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yeah, yeah, yeah. Medical people, as it goes on, if it goes on too long, then you better take a little rest uh\u2014<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>(Voice starts too soft off mike) \u2014Larry [Schacht] and Joyce [Touchette]. Particularly Larry and Joyce, I think. Maybe Sharon.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>And yourself, my love.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>All I do is stand there and (unintelligible word – bosh?). And I don\u2019t\u2014 (Laughs) I\u2019m not needed really.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Okay. You\u2019ll do what I told you anyway, won\u2019t you?<\/p>\n

Laughter, some applause.<\/p>\n

General conversation<\/p>\n

Older woman:<\/b> He\u2019s reading. Dad, is there any, isn\u2019t there any possibility that the CIA in Georgetown that\u2019s always letting people know when the important people are out of the, of the country? Could be a leak out there, couldn\u2019t there be? Somebody in the\u2014<\/p>\n

Woman (Marceline) answer, too soft.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>I see. Dad, isn\u2019t there a possibility that the, that the C\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What\u2019s all the humming and the hawing about? (Pause) What\u2019d she say?<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>I said, Dad, isn\u2019t there a possibility that the CIA is working with the gov\u2014 the government here to let people know when the important people of the, of the country are out, out of the country? Could be a leak there.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I\u2019m sure, I\u2019m sure the CIA is everywhere, but that don\u2019t mean the end of us.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>The CIA could be married to me \u2014\u00a0and she isn\u2019t \u2014\u00a0and it wouldn\u2019t mean the end of us. (Pause) So be careful. (Fake suspense tone) If you are married to a CIA, you maybe be now, being lined up for a fuck and then a gentle push on your neck, like in The Day Of The Jackal.<\/i> (Pause) One last sweet love. (Pause) Right?<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I know some of you could give somebody a fuck and finish \u2018em. Hmm?<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Then I\u2019d like to give some folk a fuss\u2014\u00a0fuck that was sweet, and let \u2018em pass over to peace. Wooo! (Pause) You gonna fuck Tim Stoen to death, (unintelligible name)<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You\u2019d kill him, I know one day, I tell you, (unintelligible word) seniors, I sending you back, that\u2019s who I sending back, when we\u2014 if we go down\u2014 Shit, between you and Rose and (Pause) crazy Lue Ester [Lewis]. Thonk thonk thonk. (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Lue Ester got healed while she\u2019s fighting her. (Laughs) Where you at, Lue Ester, where in the hell are you at? That\u2019s it, Lue Ester, hold in there. (Laughs) Shit, she hadn\u2019t paid me any attention, she got healed in a fight. That\u2019s good. I like that.<\/p>\n

Old woman: Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What is it, uh, Jane [Owens], what you gonna do with Tim Stoen?<\/p>\n

Jane: <\/b>No, when I come to Georgetown, uh, I wash dishes<\/i> one night for Tim Stoen. And uh, he was studying, and so, anyway, I used to like Tim Stoen, I used to like Grace both<\/i>, you know. So anyway, um, I said, oh, Tim, I say, you studying, I\u2019ll\u2014 I\u2019ll\u2014\u00a0I\u2019ll was dishes for you. And he said oh well, all right. And so the next<\/i> night, I was trying to kid with him or something. He said, oh Jane, I can\u2019t understand your vocabulary. I say, Fuck<\/i> you.<\/p>\n

Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I miss this. (Pause) I miss this shit. I\u2014 I\u2014\u00a0I need a laugh. What\u2014 (Pause) She washing the\u2014<\/p>\n

Young woman: <\/b>She was washing dishes for dear old Tim Stoen, and uh, she was joking with him, and he said, oh Jane, I can\u2019t understand your vocabulary. And she said, Fuck you.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I\u2019m glad, Jane, that you got that in before he left. (Pause) Let\u2019s\u2014\u00a0let\u2019s send a message and say Jane is looking for him.<\/p>\n

Laughter<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Send him a message, say Jane Owens is looking for you. (Pause) Put a shroud around God while he pisses<\/i> on the world.<\/p>\n

General conversation. Tape turned off for short moment.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>I know now why God is a man, because their anatomy is so much better built for standing up and\u2014<\/p>\n

Laughter<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>\u2014 pissing.<\/p>\n

Laughter<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>You can pee easier than women. (Pause) Now\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>But honey, you have a great advantage when you\u2019re menstruating.<\/p>\n

Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Drop a little blood on the sonsabitches. God ought\u2019ve<\/i> been a woman.<\/p>\n

Marceline: <\/b>Never thought of that.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You can shit<\/i> on \u2018em and bleed<\/i> on \u2018em at the same time, that\u2019s pretty good.<\/p>\n

Laughter.<\/p>\n

General conversation<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I am sure<\/i> that whatever God is, we all are ashamed of it.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/b>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

End of tape.<\/p>\n

Tape originally posted April 1999<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Side 1, Side 2). Jones: \u2014 talking about\u2014 Man: \u2014 communicating with her on that level. Jones: She […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":374,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-27474","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27474","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=27474"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27474\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":58702,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27474\/revisions\/58702"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=27474"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}