{"id":27495,"date":"2013-06-16T00:20:35","date_gmt":"2013-06-16T00:20:35","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/alternativejonestown.com\/?page_id=27495"},"modified":"2014-04-05T23:08:25","modified_gmt":"2014-04-05T23:08:25","slug":"q614","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=27495","title":{"rendered":"Q614 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee, III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here.<\/a>
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3<\/a>.<\/p>\n

(Note: <\/strong>This tape was one of the 53 tapes initially withheld from disclosure.)<\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Mike Prokes:<\/strong> This is uh, Mike Prokes. I\u2019m associate minister\u2013<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Part 1 (Telephone call):<\/strong><\/p>\n

(Phone rings)<\/em><\/p>\n

Chaikin: <\/strong>(unintelligible) person-to-person for Mr. William (unintelligible name, sounds like \u201cAnorato\u201d)<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> Anorato? (Pause as call is connected) Long distance calling for Mr. William Anorato.<\/p>\n

Receptionist:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

(Pause)<\/p>\n

Anorato:<\/strong> Hello.<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> Yes, Mr. William Anorato?<\/p>\n

Anorato:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Chaikin:<\/strong> Bill? Gene Chaikin calling.<\/p>\n

Anorato:<\/strong> Yeah, Gene.<\/p>\n

Chaikin:<\/strong> I just wanted to call to make sure I have an understanding. Uh, am I to understand that you absolutely won\u2019t take less than $472,000 on that property?<\/p>\n

Anorato:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Chaikin:<\/strong> Is that your last word on it?<\/p>\n

Anorato:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Chaikin:<\/strong> Well, you know it was a good offer I made you, and I\u2019ll get cash on (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Anorato:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s the way it goes.<\/p>\n

Chaikin:<\/strong> (unintelligible) offer. You know, I\u2019m aware of the appraisal on the place. And you know\u2013 and I know it\u2019s a pretty good proposition, and I\u2019m really wondering if that isn\u2019t (unintelligible under Anorato)<\/p>\n

Anorato:<\/strong> (unintelligible under Gene) I\u2013 I know what I want to do, and I appreciate the (unintelligible word). If I want to do any less, I\u2019ll do it.<\/p>\n

Chaikin:<\/strong> All right. (Pause) Okay, thank you, (unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

Anorato:<\/strong> You\u2019re welcome.<\/p>\n

Chaikin:<\/strong> If that\u2019s your last word on it.<\/p>\n

Anorato:<\/strong> (unintelligible word) will you send me back that stuff?<\/p>\n

Chaikin:<\/strong> I sure will.<\/p>\n

Anorato:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n

Chaikin:<\/strong> Bye-bye.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Call 2 (Telephone call):<\/strong><\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> She\u2019s going to uh\u2013 I think they\u2019re going to make a uh\u2013 a good recommendation to the court\u2013<\/p>\n

Reporter:<\/strong> Oh, great.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Which will be on the fourth.<\/p>\n

Reporter:<\/strong> Uh-huh [Yes]. Yeah. That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> So, hopefully, it\u2019ll all turn okay.<\/p>\n

Reporter:<\/strong> Good, well, uh (tape fades out) I\u2019m covering a\u2013 I\u2019ve been covering a trial of San Francisco police officers, and uh, the final arguments in their trial is that day, but uh\u2013 Are you going to be in Los Angeles on that\u2013 uh, down there with Marie that day, or\u2013<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Let me uh, see. Uh, what\u2013 what\u2013 Let\u2019s see, the fourth is when. (Speaks under breath to himself)<\/p>\n

Reporter:<\/strong> Uh, let\u2019s see. Fourth is a\u2013<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Today\u2019s the uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Reporter:<\/strong> Uh, let\u2019s see\u2013 Get my calendar open\u2013<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Twenty-first. Twenty-eighth will be Saturday.<\/p>\n

Reporter:<\/strong> And\u2013\u00a0and then you got twenty-ninth is a Sunday.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Monday. Yeah, it\u2019s a Thursday\u2013<\/p>\n

Reporter:<\/strong> (talks under breath) Thurs\u2013 It\u2019s a Thursday, yeah, right.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> That uh, one week or two weeks? That\u2019d be two weeks from now.<\/p>\n

Reporter:<\/strong> Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah, we\u2019ll be there.<\/p>\n

Reporter:<\/strong> You will<\/em> be there. Okay, well, then maybe you can give me a call and\u2013 and uh, call me collect at the station that day, and let me know what uh\u2013 what happens.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Okay. Yeah. I wonder if uh\u2013 I think<\/em> KABC said they were going to follow it up\u2013<\/p>\n

Reporter:<\/strong> Oh, good, okay, well, I\u2019ll let them know that uh, it\u2019s down in the same\u2013\u00a0the same district but uh, different judge, I know.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah. Yeah. Gene [Chaikin] has all the (voice fades)<\/p>\n

Reporter:<\/strong> Right. Yeah\u2013<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> \u2013and uh\u2013 (speaks under breath, likely to self) How are things going otherwise?<\/p>\n

Reporter:<\/strong> Not badly. Not badly. Kinda working\u2013 I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m taking this next week off, for uh\u2013 Yeah, (unintelligible name) are leaving for uh, (unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

Conversation cut off<\/em><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Part 3 (Conversation and phone call):<\/strong><\/p>\n

General low conversation for several moments<\/em><\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) It\u2019s just hard. (Pause) Michelle to crack on that score, but I did give<\/em> him to (unintelligible). Something of a positive nature (unintelligible) reaction to any of his older people, uh\u2013 younger children. Minority children, minority youth that were still up north uh, in that area.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> (unintelligible) I didn\u2019t say anything about that.<\/p>\n

General low conversation for several moments, mostly unintelligible, out of context. One person, either elderly, or younger with falsetto voice, periodically interjects continuing non-contextual comments.<\/em><\/p>\n

Prokes: <\/strong>(unintelligible) money we gave to an appropriate cause (unintelligible)\u00ad\u00ad\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) money we gave to an appropriate cause. Oh, there\u2019s a black group that uh, a black group, prison, uh, for helping prisoners that said they were looking into\u2013 they were going to look into (stumbles over words) look into the\u2013 \u2018cause we can\u2019t really say that until we do it.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Or the thousand dollars given to Marin (pause) for the drug (pause) relocation has never been mentioned. Thousand dollars given, and we\u2013 to them\u2013 you know, the Marin thing. Said anybody who (stumbles over words) he said that\u2013 he said it might\u2013 he hoped that might inspire (unintelligible) because the whole program\u2019s going to go out and two hundred and twenty-some people would be thrown on\u2013 on the s\u2013 streets in various levels of detox\u2013 detoxification. (Pause) (unintelligible) Methadone and various (unintelligible word), but still addicted. They\u2019re without funds. Running out very soon. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> (sings ditty)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible word) other angle? You\u2019re the newsman. A damn good one. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> The busses.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Hmm?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> The busses go down the highway (unintelligible word)\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That might\u2013 that might get people mad from fuel standpoint. You know how to get pissed\u2013 old [Lester] Kinsolving got pissed?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Not now.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah, but it\u2013 Still, has to be just a curiosity\u2013 curious angle than could make us still strange. It oughta be something of praise, something like a\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It\u2019s just like anybody else. I don\u2019t do what you (unintelligible word) to get mad.<\/p>\n

Baby squawks<\/em><\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) the church deserve full support. (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

General low conversation for several moments, mostly unintelligible, out of context.<\/em><\/p>\n

(Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013greatly impressed by you, but knowing that this\u2013 (unintelligible) you\u2019d probably find it hard to\u2013 to conceive of anybody not wanting to be in a Herb Caen column. And he wasn\u2019t<\/em>\u2013 he wasn\u2019t deeply honored by the privilege, he\u2013 he said he\u2019d never met a newsman that\u2013 that\u2013 that impressed him (pause) as much as you. (Pause) (unintelligible word) sensitivity and your awareness. (Pause) (unintelligible sentence) He says he knows (unintelligible under baby) out of enlightened self-interest, including himself. (Pause) But your\u2013\u00a0your self-interest\u2013 (Pause) like his (Pause) Well, don\u2019t say like I said like mine. His sel\u2013 your self-interest, \u2018cause he said, like we\u2019ve seen in him, he encompasses the whole<\/em> world. (Pause) He\u2019s particularly concerned about your\u2013 he\u2019s particular appreciative of your concern about the nuclear (pause) dangers. (Pause) Well, you can word it better than I\u2019m wording it, Prokes, so don\u2019t hesitate to include that. So, (stumbles over words) he\u2019s\u2013 he\u2019s\u2013\u00a0he\u2019s quoted frequently ever since we were in the Tribune, he\u2019s (unintelligible word) to the congregation m\u2013 meetings and (unintelligible) your statement about what makes it a city big league\u2013 in the big league in how it takes care of its people. (Pause) He says no, he can\u2019t use the (unintelligible word). That\u2019s all right with him, you know. I understand. We\u2019re just thinking\u2013 we\u2019re naturally interested in how we can get others to (pause) implement some of the things \u2013 just a few<\/em> of the things \u2013 he\u2019s doing. He\u2019s acting perfectly nonchalant if he doesn\u2019t. It\u2019ll cer\u2013 certainly be all right with him, \u2018cause he didn\u2019t want it in the first place. (Pause) \u2018Cause he said that you said, you know, you can (unintelligible word), you said uh, that leaves me frustrated, because I<\/em> certainly don\u2019t want any news for myself<\/em>, I<\/em> don\u2019t want any news for myself<\/em>, but I would like to see this great program, and the character of this man known. What\u2019d you say?<\/p>\n

Younger woman:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Uh, yes, I do.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> My recommendation for myself that this program\u2013 (unintelligible under Jones)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013and\u2013 and the character of this great man be\u2013 be known, this good<\/em> man. Good<\/em> man. \u2018Cause I believe greatness is in goodness. Or something like that. (unintelligible) \u2018Cause I believe what makes greatness is goodness. (unintelligible) goodness. And I was a cynic of sex. Speaking like\u2013 you know\u2013 (unintelligible). And you do\u2013 do come across that\u2013 like that, but you\u2019re (unintelligible). I want to see the books now (unintelligible). Just proud of my son. He did very beautifully that day. You couldn\u2019t have said it more\u2013 I think that was one of the most appropriate things that was said. I come there and I was skeptical and\u2013 Would you pass me the uh, Seven-Up or whatever? Is there any left? The other glass. That glass.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> I\u2019ll put some ice\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> No, no, no. No. (unintelligible under sound of ice, soda)<\/p>\n

General conversation with children for several moments, mostly unintelligible, out of context.<\/em><\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Oh, Jim. What\u2019s this you keep saying to me? Do you hear what he saying to me?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Uh-uh\u2013<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Part 4 (Snippet of phone call):<\/strong><\/p>\n

Background noise<\/em><\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Professionals in our church thought the drug thing would be beneficial, because we\u2019ve got less flak from that than anything.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Part 5 (Phone call):<\/strong><\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> In fact, I\u2013 I didn\u2019t uh, share it with anyone except Dr. [Carlton] Goodlett, and he isn\u2019t going to do anything about it, but he was awfully<\/em> apprehensive. He said, this is what hurts the people who\u2013 in\u2013 in the\u2013 the uh, liberal movement, the Third World, uh, when\u2013 uh, when people run away from these kinda things, it really puts the\u2013 the panic<\/em> on, because there\u2019s other monies that have to be raised.<\/p>\n

John Moore:<\/strong> Well, let me tell you the story.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All right. Thank you.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> \u2013and uh, the man who\u2013 Jim uh\u2013 John Adams uh\u2013 Well, first I oughta say that he trusts Dennis [Banks].<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Part 6 (Snippet of phone call): <\/strong><\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> \u2013um-hmm, and\u2013 and when would that be?<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> That would be, as I explained to uh, (sighs) I can\u2019t who\u2013 I can\u2019t even remember your (unintelligible word under Prokes)<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Mr. Chaikin?<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> Yeah. Gene Chaikin. Um. We originally said 10 o\u2019clock, but the babies\u2013<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Part 5 (Phone call [resumed]):<\/strong><\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> \u2013and he wrote an article about this whole thing in Christian Century<\/em> last fall or last summer, and I\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Who?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> \u2013we may have a copy someplace.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know it\u2013<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> But anyway, he\u2019s been at Kent State, he\u2019s the one that has led the board in support of the people at Kent State.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Oh, yes, yes, yes, I\u2013 That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> \u2013involved at Attica and some of those things. He said that there was a\u2013 a federal charge against Dennis (unintelligible word under Jones)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Do you know what the nature of\u2013<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> That was growing out of Wounded Knee.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Was it uh, uh\u2013 Did the\u2013\u00a0You know whether it was a felony assault or what the\u2013 uh, what type it was?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t know. Let me\u2013 Let me run it down at any rate.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 And the Iowa Annual Conference, the Methodist Conference, deposited cash, $85,000, on a $105,000 bond. (unintelligible word under Jones) Dennis left, and for a time<\/em>, it seemed that they\u2019d lost that money. However, John Adams and others got Dennis to come back.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Oh, he did<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> And they got him to come back \u2013 (unintelligible aside) by posting bail on a state<\/em> charge. So the conference got its $85,000 back.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I see.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Now the Iowa Annual Conference then<\/em> posted\u2013 or (unintelligible word) five<\/em> thousand dollar bail on the state charge, and our Board of Church and Society posted five thousand dollars on that state charge. That was in 1973, and the Wounded Knee was earlier than that. And at\u2013 then Dennis left, and so they lost the ten thousand dollars.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> How\u2019d they ever get uh, a bond back on the earlier charge, uh, was it dropped, or\u2013<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Apparently it must\u2019ve been dropped.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It must\u2019ve\u2013 had to\u2019ve been, it\u2013 they would never got their money back.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know how they did, uh, and I\u2013 But\u2013 but they got it back.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> So they lost only ten, then.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> They lost ten. My\u2013 You know, I\u2019m trying to read between the lines and my\u2013 I wonder if, in the negotiations, since there was the state charge\u2013 you know they got him back on\u2013 (sighs) uh, to come back and face the federal charge, which apparently was dropped, or the case\u2013 I don\u2019t know what happened to the case. But anyway, they got that back, but they did lose the ten when uh\u2013 when he left a second time. Now, you know, you might read between the lines and see that uh\u2013 that uh, (short laugh) the conference and others were\u2013 Maybe they expected him to stay for the second time, and maybe they were\u2013 I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Didn\u2019t\u2013 Probably didn\u2019t.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Sounds like people who are conscious of a man fleeing for his life.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Yeah, well, that\u2019s what he said. He said uh, Dennis\u2019 physical protection, his safety, was an issue, and that\u2019s wh\u2013 and uh, that\u2019s really the case.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, [Richard] Hongisto still contends that it is<\/em> an issue, and I didn\u2019t uh, tell him this situation. I thought I\u2019d wait to hear from you.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> So uh\u2013 and John is\u2013 you know, if\u2013 if John Adams were called on now, he would go to work in the same way he has before<\/em>, to be helpful to Dennis.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s good. That\u2019s good to know.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> And he\u2013 Yeah. And he said that uh, first\u2013 I said, well, what can uh, the pastor and the people do, and I don\u2019t expect you to do all this, but he said, well, just stay in\u2013 stay with Dennis, keep informed of the developments. John Adams feels that if he had been able to stay during the whole trial and all the court appearances, that Dennis might\u2019ve hung in there, \u2018cause he needs that kind of support.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yes. Chaikin said the same thing. Said he\u2019d be fre\u2013 He was freaky, as I told you yesterday.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Yeah. Right. And that uh, Den\u2013 uh, John Adams had to go to\u2013 to Kent State and so he wasn\u2019t there, and it was about that point that Dennis split. So that uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I think he has legitimate fears. It doesn\u2019t remind me (stumbles over words)\u2013 he\u2019s certainly no moral coward, and (stumbles over words) little concern for his life, other than his wife [Kamook Banks] and children. This terrible situation, his wife being arrested too. But he jumped clear out of his boots almost when someone ran quickly into the room, so there\u2019s a\u2013 there\u2019s a genuine<\/em> apprehension this man has, it\u2019s not\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s not put on. Well, I certainly appreciate getting that information, John, and uh, I can\u2019t tell you how much.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> He says if you stay in touch with Dennis, uh, there may be those times when the church can uh, kind of be in a brokering position. That\u2019s what he actually did. He\u2013 John Adams, between the FBI and the government and the\u2013 Dennis and\u2013 you know, you<\/em> might\u2013 you\u2013 the church<\/em> or Chaikin<\/em> or somebody might be the person in that kind of a situation.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, there\u2019s a number of\u2013 of us interested here, Hongisto and Goodlett. If I\u2013 if needed, uh, Goodlett\u2019s a little apprehensive, having being stung several times uh\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2019m sure he\u2019ll take my word, but if necessary, would it be all right if he gave you a ring?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Oh, sure.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All right.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> And if you ever want to call John Adams, uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All right, that might be helpful, too.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Uh, I\u2019ll give you his number at some point. Do you want that now?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yes, I might. That might uh\u2013 Goodlett, this could go directly to him.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Okay, hold\u2013 uh\u2013 (Pause) His\u2013 I have his of\u2013 his home<\/em> phone is in Washington, and that\u2019s tw\u2013 area code 202, uh, 686-5577. And his office phone\u2013 Just a minute, I\u2019ll give you that. (Pause) So Adams would be encouraging us to hang in there with him.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Good.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> The office phone is area code 202, 546-1000. He gave u\u2013 He gave me a lot of names, and I thought maybe you had these names. Do you know the attorneys? Dennis Roberts, John Thorne?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> No\u2013 no, no. We\u2019d always, as a\u2013 as\u2013 It so happens\u2013 An ironic thing happening tomorrow, and Dennis Banks wants to meet in our church. We are hesitant \u2013 a little hesitant \u2013 in that he needs more representation than one church. He uh\u2013 It\u2019s the anniversary of Wounded Knee, and that\u2013 It just so happens that his wife is reuniting with him tomorrow. Well, the press want to uh, apparently make some uh, play of that fact uh, to his benefit or whatever, to the public consumption, the news interest, and uh, if you know any other churches that would like to appear in a\u2013 a joint, or any other people in the Methodist<\/em> Church, that\u2019re interested in\u2013\u00a0in<\/em> Dennis Banks, uh, I think a more uh, uh, a group participation is much more effective than just one church in this sissue\u2013 issue, because if [California Governor Jerry] Brown extradites him, Hongisto says he\u2019s dead. And Hongisto evidently has some i\u2013 information because he also told me to be extremely careful. He gets a lot of scuttlebutt from the jail, and he told me to be extremely careful based on something he\u2019d heard. So uh, he has uh, more than uh\u2013 uh, I think it\u2019s\u2013 I think it\u2019s uh, a real\u2013 uh, (stumbles over words) it\u2019s obvious<\/em> that Hongisto\u2019s extremely<\/em> concerned about him going back, and the pa\u2013 with all this with Jerry Brown, and if any\u2013 you\u2013 if either of you know people that will write, if you can tell \u2018em that we\u2013 uh, we\u2019ve gotten out 1500 letters, but it\u2019s a drop in the bucket compared to what uh, Willie Brown told me he\u2013 he thought that it was a\u2013 a very sa\u2013 hi\u2013 highly significant that one church could pro\u2013 produce that. We of course did not let it be s\u2013 known that it came from one\u2013 one church, but he still<\/em> thinks that Jerry Brown is politically conscious enough that it\u2019s going to take more\u2013 more support than that.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Yeah. Now, the uh\u2013 the uh\u2013 these are people close to Dennis, attorney called uh, I\u2013 I guess it\u2019s Dennis Roberts, I may have made a goof on that first name, let me look and see if I did. (Pause) No, he sai\u2013 and his phone number. You got a pencil?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah, I\u2019m taking it down.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> 465-6363. And also 524-1296.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Um-hmm. Those are local attorneys.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Yeah, and then there\u2019s this attorney in San Jose. Uh, John Thorne, T-h-o-r-n-e. And that\u2019s area code 408, 286-1214, 269-9453.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Now, both resi\u2013 residence and home.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Well, uh, he just gave me three numbers.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I see. All right.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Uh, got the second? 269-9453. And 294-9028. Then uh, he just mentioned some other things we know. You know the college teacher he was with\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yes, (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> The Dennis Banks Bicentennial Fund. Then he says he has a brother who\u2019s a movie<\/em> actor in Hollywood.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Who, uh, Dennis does?<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Yeah. Mark Banks is his brother\u2019s name.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Pause) Strange, he never mentioned that.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> And uh\u2013 and uh\u2013 he can at times\u2013 Well, he said that\u2013 Apparently I\u2013 I (unintelligible word) He said these are the people close to Dennis. Then he said Marlon Brando, well, he\u2019s up and down, you know. Can\u2019t be sure, but apparently\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Apparently\u2013<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> \u2013he has been helpful at times.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah, he hasn\u2019t shown his face of late, it seems. It seems uh, this man extremely dependent upon us, it seems that there\u2019s not too much interest, and it\u2013 it\u2013 it is a shame, if\u2013 if Adams\u2019\u2013 if Adams\u2019 description of him makes me that much more desirous of getting into the thing. Uh, I wonder if uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Yeah. Well, if you would\u2013 you know, you might just feel better calling John Adams and uh, just say, you know, we\u2019re good friends, and I got\u2013 you\u2019re the person I got the information for, and if you want to talk with him, that (unintelligible under Jones)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Might be more significant\u2013 It might prompt him more if a man who\u2019s a newspaper\u2013 head of all the na\u2013 uh, the national newspaper publishers of\u2013 of the United States like Goodlett called him, I suspect, might be even be more<\/em> effective, would a\u2013 I could uh\u2013 I could say that uh (stumbles over words) uh, I had suggested that he call\u2013 that you\u2013 or that you had mentioned it to\u2013 how\u2013 how would I word that, uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Well, just say that I thought he would be glad to talk with anybody (unintelligible word under Jones)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All right.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> \u2013uh, trying to find out, be helpful to Dennis.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Fine. And in the meantime, if you could think of any group that is letter-writing minded, or Barb [Barbara Moore, wife of John Moore], tell \u2018em to uh, uh, really uh, push on it, because uh, this is where Willie says uh, the case gone rise or fall.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> I would suggest that you might try to talk with the San Francisco Council on Religion and Race.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All right.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Do you know who that uh, executive is?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I don\u2019t\u2013<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> I know it\u2019s in the Archdiocese and\u2013 and th\u2013 that person would be able to tell you who\u2013 Oh, B\u2013 Barbara said he\u2019s the man at SANE.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Barbara S\u2013 Chandler.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> No, who\u2013 who is the man at SANE, Barbara?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Reverend Chandler.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Oh, is it Reverend Chandler?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yes, uh-huh. Black man.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Yeah. Well, the San Francisco Council on Religion and Race has touch with Jews and Catholics and Protestants in San Francisco, and uh, they might be helpful.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Um-hmm. Um-hmm. Well, we can get a hold of Ch\u2013 of Chandler. He has sent us couple of people wanting us to help them, so I would think that he would uh, reciprocate for this man. We\u2019re not asking for anything personally.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All right, that\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s good to know. And just any\u2013 uh, any others that you think of, don\u2019t hesitate to feed them to us, or inspire them to uh, write, because the hours are clicking away, the extradition order can come down at any\u2013 well, (stumbles over words) it\u2019s already be requested, and Brown is setting on it longer than is normal now. And which m\u2013 mo\u2013 most govern\u2013 governors would act upon it. He\u2019s in a very ticklish situation, but Willie says if enough\u2013 well, if he has enough backing, he says Governor Brown\u2019s got a\u2013 a\u2013 a good heart, apparently, uh, (clears throat) at least he\u2013 he offered my name uh, and Jerry Brown\u2019s going to appoint me to this uh, agricultural commission that uh, [Cesar] Chavez is, oh, whatever this group is that uh\u2013 that deadlocked, and I said I didn\u2019t think that I would be helpful, I thought it might uh, be better if he wanted someone within my church, it would be better, maybe someone like Tim Stoen, but uh, Governor Brown, if he even looks at our way must be\u2013 uh, he must have uh\u2013 not at least of total fear of\u2013 of radical uh, social action<\/em> views, uh, but naturally, he\u2019s a political realist and he has presidential ambitions and uh, uh, (stumbles over words) we\u2013 we can only\u2013 we\u2019re just writing our fool heads off, but not everyone\u2019s a writer<\/em>, you know, and uh, we\u2013 we have, I\u2013 I think, fifteen hundred letters at the last count, but Willie said that it was going to take more. By what \u201cmore\u201d is, I don\u2019t know. But thanks for this, and we shall uh, proceed.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Sure. Okay, Jim.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Thank you. Bye-bye.<\/p>\n

Moore:<\/strong> Bye-bye.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Part 7 (Telephone call):<\/strong><\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013Yeah. Anybody on the line?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah. Gene\u2013 Gene\u2019s leaving to the court. Is that all right? He\u2019s gotta get a judge to sign an order that he had this morning.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Have you got all that information off of\u2013 (stumbles over words) you glean it? \u2013glean it?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013(unintelligible beginning), uh, clear up this muddied mess about Banks. I got a hold of the uh, man back uh\u2013 well, I had Dr. Moore get a hold of this man back in uh, Washington who is a top dog in the Methodist Church, Lee Adams, I think is his name, isn\u2019t that right? \u2013 Prokes is on the other line\u2013<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He uh\u2013 He\u2019s<\/em> very interested in Banks\u2019 case. He said that they indeed post, but it was not fifty thousand, but $85,000 bond, and\u2013 which he went underground, but then they some way uh, must\u2019ve manipulated the\u2013 or ar\u2013 arranged the dr\u2013 uh, dropping of federal charge and got it state<\/em> charge, which they knew from the onset, that the\u2013 the\u2013 they didn\u2019t expect him to stay for, so they got their eighty-five thousand back, because he came back for the federal charge and faced the state charge, they posted ten and lost ten. But Lee Adams is still committed to this man, he said he watched him closely, he was sensitive, deeply concerned about people, grateful and\u2013 and humble. So I thought I better get that back through the uh, grapevine, because I didn\u2019t mean to trouble waters uh, but that\u2019s what Dr. Moore told me explicitly last night that uh, they were\u2013 (Pause) uh, that Dennis rather\u2013 Lee Adams I guess stands still<\/em> prepared, if there\u2019s any way we could utilize him, in Washington, to help Banks.<\/p>\n

Carlton Goodlett:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He said he had to leave\u2013 He had to leave the area because of his life being in danger, quote unquote.<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> Okay. Well, then, I\u2019ll\u2013 I\u2019ll\u2013 I\u2019ll still pursue it, though. (unintelligible under Jones)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> I\u2013 I wanted\u2013 I wanted to\u2013 I wanted to stand fast here<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, I\u2013 I certainly would\u2013 would like for (unintelligible word), b\u2013 being that I got $19,000 of needed money in it, uh, too. I don\u2019t know how much money we\u2013 who put up money on him here?<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Oh, it could be uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> (unintelligible under Jones) will try to find out from Hon\u2013 Hongisto.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, I\u2013 you\u2013 you haven\u2019t told Hongisto this\u2013 uh, what I\u2013<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> He hasn\u2019t called me back.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Huh?<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> He hasn\u2019t called me back yet.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Good. Well, I\u2019m glad, because I\u2013 I thought I\u2019d save you the trouble. I\u2019m always giving you these worrisome things, and I went\u2013 went for Hongisto, thinking maybe you\u2019d gotten to him and\u2013 I didn\u2019t get him myself, so fortunately, I didn\u2019t even discuss it with Hongisto, so I\u2019ll\u2013<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ll discuss it with him.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All right, now, uh\u2013 now there one last aspect. He wants to reunite his family here in our church, and he\u2019s got the press coming in, and wire services and so forth and so on, and I\u2013 I\u2013 I want to know what you uh, say how to handle this kind of thing. He\u2019s gone and set the whole thing up uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> Well, you know\u2013 may\u2013 maybe\u2013 maybe\u2013 maybe this man has uh\u2013 he\u2019s found the people he\u2019s been looking for. And you can\u2019t reject him.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t intend to reject him. I\u2013 I like your opinion. I just like your opinion when I start meddling with the press, I uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> Well, he\u2013 he is a public figure, and he\u00ad\u2013 he\u2013 and you\u2019re going to get more and more people coming and uh, uh, (unintelligible word) you might\u2013\u00a0you might uh, indicate that uh, you don\u2019t want the press interfering with the services, that they can interview him uh, in your office or something like that, but they\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Oh yeah, I\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2019m not going to let them into the\u2013 I didn\u2019t think they\u2019d\u2013 it would be hi\u2013 advisable to\u2013<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> (unintelligible under Jones) They\u2019ll\u2013 they\u2019ll be uh\u2013 Because the television and everything\u2019ll be there, it\u2019ll be a\u2013 (Pause ) And I\u2013 I\u2013 I would handle it uh, with\u2013 with firmness but uh, that you don\u2019t want the religious service uh, continuity interrupted, but that uh, under the circumstances, uh, he is a public figure and he\u2019ll be available for uh, the interview and what not, uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Now that\u2019s what I wanted to get your opinion, whether we\u00ad went on with that uh\u2013 I didn\u2019t also want to hurt his case. I thought if he had more people backing him\u2013 But he wants it here. He set it up. We didn\u2019t even confer with us, he just thought that he was so grateful to us, so he told Chaikin \u2013 I haven\u2019t talked to him \u2013 that he wanted his family, he\u2019s meeting his wife, and it happens to\u2013 it so happens to be the anniversary of Rewoun\u2013 of Wounded Knee when the reunion takes place.<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s (unintelligible word) good. Yeah, that\u2019d be good.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All right. Well\u2013<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> (unintelligible sentence) He\u2019s just gone too far now to start running.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m not\u2013 I don\u2019t want to run, Carlton, I\u2019m\u2013 I don\u2019t (unintelligible word) give a damn about pressure. I don\u2019t want to cause\u2013 I don\u2019t to abort things and get ahead of the rest of\u2013 we\u2019ve got something going here, it looks at least progress, one little niche of progress in this great vast country, and uh, I just don\u2019t want to get ahead of the rest of my uh, progressive friends.<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> (unintelligible under Jones) when you lead, though, you\u2019re always ahead. So don\u2019t worry. I\u2019ll be with you.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Laughs) All\u2013 All right. I just wanted to check it out that we\u2013 we were on the right course.<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> We together.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n

Goodlett:<\/strong> All right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Bye-bye.<\/p>\n

(Phone disconnects)<\/em><\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> That it?<\/p>\n

(Second phone disconnects)<\/em><\/p>\n

(Third phone disconnects)<\/em><\/p>\n

End of tape<\/strong><\/p>\n

Tape originally posted May 2013<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee, III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3. (Note: This tape was one of the 53 tapes initially withheld from disclosure.)   Mike Prokes: This is […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":401,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-27495","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27495","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=27495"}],"version-history":[{"count":7,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27495\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":59986,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27495\/revisions\/59986"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=27495"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}