{"id":27517,"date":"2013-06-16T00:20:46","date_gmt":"2013-06-16T00:20:46","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/alternativejonestown.com\/?page_id=27517"},"modified":"2014-04-01T22:14:07","modified_gmt":"2014-04-01T22:14:07","slug":"q645","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=27517","title":{"rendered":"Q645 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. To listen to MP3, click here<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Cecil Williams:<\/b> \u2013who are not only doing things, but people who are really<\/i> bringing about change in our society. One cannot talk about it at all<\/i>, unless one mentions the name, the Reverend Jim Jones. Jim Jones, who is the pastor of the Peoples Temple Christian Church, is charismatic<\/i>, is uh, unique<\/i>, is serious about what he\u2019s doing, is an excellent spokesman, a, a great articulator\u2013 What\u2013\u00a0What\u2013 What else can I say about you, Jim Jones, except the fact that I\u2019m delighted that you\u2019re on our show today.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Thank you very much.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> And we\u2019re going to be talking to this\u2013 this man, and what he\u2019s<\/i> about, as soon as we come back.<\/p>\n

Radio theme song<\/i><\/p>\n

Commercial<\/i><\/p>\n

Single line from old tape:<\/b> \u2013gonna have a big problem\u2013<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> \u2013uh, you know, I really don\u2019t uh, I don\u2019t sit and talk with uh, personalities uh, on a one-to-one basis that often, but when I do<\/i>, I try to bring to you<\/i>, the viewers, the very\u2013 the very most important uh, people, uh, in\u2013\u00a0in regards to this kind of thing. And I\u2019ve brought to you a minister, you<\/i> know. That\u2019s something that\u2019s very difficult<\/i> for me to do, unless he\u2019s a unique<\/i> minister, and here he is. (Laughs) Here\u2019s the man today. Jim, uh, I\u2019m amazed by you. I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m uh, uh\u2013 you know, I really many times can\u2019t find words, \u2018cause you are sometimes indescribable. You\u2019re a very important person, a very powerful person. You are a prophet in\u2013 in\u2013\u00a0in\u2013\u00a0in his time, and ahead<\/i> of his time too. Jim, uh, how did you come about doing what you\u2019re doing, starting what you\u2019re starting, moving in the direction that you\u2019re moving in?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I saw the need, I guess, and responded to it the best I could. It always seems insignificant, Cecil, compared to the vast needs around you. But that\u2019s how I got started, just looking at the need.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> And when he talks about looking at the needs, uh, uh, you\u2019ve, of course, uh, related to a lot of needs, not only<\/i> in\u2013 in northern California, and in the state<\/i> of California, but needs throughout the country, as well as needs uh, throughout uh, the world<\/i>. We\u2019re going to be talking about some<\/i> of those needs, but let\u2019s\u2013\u00a0let\u2019s focus in on why\u2013 why do you, uh, go in the direction you\u2019re going? Why\u2013 I mean, why did you say, look, we gotta meet some needs and go about getting at those needs.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Which direction? I\u2019m\u2013\u00a0I feel like I\u2019m the jack of all trades sometimes, and master of none. Which direction (unintelligible under Williams)\u2013<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> All right\u2013 All right\u2013 Let\u2019s\u2013\u00a0Yeah\u2013 Let\u2019s, let\u2019s just talk about one in particular, uh, Jim. One has to do with the fact that uh\u2013 First of all, one of the\u2013 the things that you do, is when it comes to issues, and especially<\/i> when it comes to defending people who\u2013\u00a0who have to face injustices, you are always there, one way or the other. I think about uh, for instance uh, the situation in regards to the communications industry, the press.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, I thought\u2013 I thought [President Richard] Nixon was coming down severely<\/i> upon the press, and of course, without the Fourth and Fifth Estate, where are<\/i> we? It has exposed certainly as uh, clarified very clearly in the Watergate situation. We were concerned<\/i> about the repression that this represented, so we felt that we had to get out<\/i> there and represent different newsmen who were under attack because of their sources<\/i>. And I guess our support, funding spread all over the United States, [reporter Bill] Farr first and then the Fresno Bee<\/i>, and then we gave monies to various news associations. We\u2019re very concerned about a free press.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Some even here in the Bay Area.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Oh yes. Yes.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Uh, in regards to the free press, what were you really trying to say? That it should take place, that in fact, uh, any<\/i> information that press uh, feels that it must keep confidential, it should be given that right and that privilege to do so.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>It has<\/i> to, because of the intimidations<\/i> that we\u2019ve seen in such instances as Watergate. The press has<\/i> to be able to keep their sources<\/i>, and I thought that our whole democratic fabric<\/i> was being threatened. Not only myself, but our congregation here of 8000. It wasn\u2019t something unique to me. We\u2019re very much concerned that the press has the right to moner\u2013 monitor society and be able to uh, regulate excesses or help to bring conscience to the community. We just felt there was nothing less\u2013\u00a0left for us to do<\/i>. We had to respond<\/i>. Because it seemed that Mr. Nixon was uh, on a tirade<\/i> against the press.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> And yet there\u2019re times, Jim, that uh, you and I and others<\/i> uh, are approached by the press and uh, and they do disservice<\/i> to us. Some\u2013 Some. Every once in a while, we are not\u2013\u00a0we get into uh\u2013 We are misquoted (laughs), we are taken out of context and that kind of thing. How do we deal with that kind of thing, you know, when it happens to you, \u2018cause you\u2013 you\u2019re often in the press. You\u2019re often quoted. You\u2019re often talked about.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I don\u2019t know what one can do. I guess we have to take our chances for the negative aspects in order to allow the press to be free, we have to take the chance that there\u2019ll be a few that will practice yellow journalism, and I think there are a few. You and I know of one (unintelligible under Williams\u2019 laughter), so uh, I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t get too much worried about it, as long as they print my\u2013 as the old saying, if they can print my name right in the paper. But we have to take the chance to the excess. I think (stumbles over words), it hurts<\/i> when press is not responsible, and I have seen that in your case, and in one case, I\u2019ve seen it with\u2013 uh, with myself<\/i>. But still, the press is the bulwark of democracy.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Jim, you\u2019ve taken a chance. You\u2019ve taken a chance, \u2018cause you\u2019ve got all kinds of people uh, in the Peoples Temple Christian Church. How far does your\u2013\u00a0does your constituency uh, extend? Uh, in how many places?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, we have 8000 in San Francisco. Then we have uh, a church that I\u2019ve founded\u2013\u00a0We\u2019re all related with the Disciples of Christ, which is a two-million denomination. And then I have 10,000 members in our Los Angeles parish. I don\u2019t know the breakdown, in Fresno, and Bakersfield, and Sacramento, but it\u2019s pretty sizeable. And then Redwood Valley, California, we have a pretty sizeable congregation up north in\u2013 in uh, around the Ukiah area.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Why did you begin to work with various racial and ethnic groups, trying to bring them together?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>It seems to me that\u2013\u00a0of course, it\u2019s just right<\/i> that we be together. And I thought uh, of all<\/i> places, if Jesus Christ did not teach inclusiveness<\/i>, he said, we were our brother\u2019s keeper, and God is no respecter of persons. And certainly I believe in the voluntary type of approach to social problems. (unintelligible word) somewhat Jeffersonian, that the government that governs least governs best. And if the church<\/i> doesn\u2019t take its responsibility, where are we?<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Umm.<\/p>\n

Woman in recording room: <\/b>Who is it?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Seems to me that the church had to uh, to initiate responsibility here.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Well, you\u2019ve taken a great deal of responsibility. For instance, uh, let\u2019s talk uh, just a little bit about uh, some of the things that you\u2019re engaged in, in regards to the treatment of people. One in particular, drug<\/i> addicts, uh, people that are strung out on, on dope, uh, uh, things like that. Wha\u2013\u00a0What do you do, Jim? What\u2013 What have you come up on in regards to that kind of issue? How\u2013 How do you get at that kind of issue with people?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>In our situation, we bring them into our homes, I\u2019ve had many\u2013 my wife [Marceline] and I have had many in our home, even though we have uh, seven adopted children [Stephanie Jones (died in 1959); Suzanne Jones; Agnes Paulette Jones; Stephan Gandhi Jones; James Warren Jones, Jr.; Lew Eric Jones; Timothy Glenn Tupper Jones], we\u2019ve never had an issue with one person that we\u2019ve taken in to attempt to rehabilitate. Love<\/i> is lacking so often. Alienation. And just a little bit of love. You don\u2019t have to have a great deal of professional skill. Our recidivism rate is very low<\/i> on heroin, for instance. But the\u2013 the savvy uh, professional know-how,\u00a0 I don\u2019t\u2013\u00a0I don\u2019t think we have so much in that area. We have some psychologists working with us, but I\u2019d say the great achievement\u2019s been uh, made\u2013\u00a0uh, be\u2013\u00a0been made by the\u2013 the nuclear family<\/i>, where someone will just take someone into their home. Of course, those few days of withdrawal, we have facilities, and we go through that, and that\u2019s a hell indescribable.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Yeah. Yeah. Withdrawal, I guess, is a very difficult thing, isn\u2019t it? Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Terrible. Terrible.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Takes you a lot of your time too, doesn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Great deal. Great deal.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Uh, Jim, you got involved in one particular case of uh, of a black young woman.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Marie Decker.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Marie\u2013 That\u2019s right. Uh, tell us a little bit about, uh, about her and about what happened.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>She was an amazing person. She came hooked on a habit of about four hundred dollars a day<\/i>, and of course she was involved in every type of crime that she could possibly get into<\/i> to maintain<\/i> that habit. And as she went along\u2013\u00a0course, she\u2013 it was no\u2013 no time, \u2018cause she completely rehabilitated herself<\/i>. And I think a lot of it\u2013 I have to keep the emphasis on the individual. Uh, we gave her support, acceptance, and she had a very prestigious job. But we found out later<\/i> that she had actually uh, left probation, she uh\u2013 she had been a fugitive uh, from two<\/i> different uh, senten\u2013\u00a0sentences, and uh\u2013\u00a0when\u2013\u00a0when she brought this to our attention, the church decided, well, we\u2019re going to get in there and fight to straighten up her record, and we were able to achieve<\/i> that by solidarity and appealing to the probation department, and the judge was most sympathetic, he uh, uh, allowed her probation to continue, and I think it\u2019s going to be finished about April seventh\u2013 about uh, May<\/i> seventh, I believe.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Mmm. You know, uh\u2013 (Clears throat) I\u2019m just gonna move along with you here, because we got so much to cover, uh, Jim. Uh\u2013 let\u2019s talk about other people that you\u2019ve given support, other causes that you\u2019ve given support. Uh, for instance, Angela Davis [University of California professor who was fired over her membership in the Communist Party].<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Indeed.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Uh, you did support her.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Early.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Why<\/i> did you feel that you had to support Angela Davis?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I believe that when one person\u2019s rights are affected, everyone<\/i> is. We supported a John Bircher<\/i> on one occasion. It seemed to me that Angela, uh, was the victim of political oppression<\/i>. I don\u2019t care whether she\u2019s a communist or if she\u2019s a member of the Nazi party. I believe in the right\u2013 the First Amendment rights. I think that\u2019s very essential. Wasn\u2019t it Pastor [Martin] Niemoller that said when they came for the communist, I did nothing, because I wasn\u2019t a communist. They came for the Jews, and I had typical Protestant prejudices, and I didn\u2019t react. When they came for the Catholics and the trade unions, the same type of response. When they got around to coming after me, there was nobody left to\u2013 to defend my ci\u2013\u00a0to defend<\/i> him. And I think uh, there\u2019s enlightened self-interest. I\u2013\u00a0I\u2013\u00a0I doubt\u2013 I don\u2019t believe we can restrict anyone\u2019s<\/i> right of freedom of speech.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Mmm. Mmm. Well, you know, now, that puts you in a category of being\u2013\u00a0you know, you could easily be called a communist, just by supporting the rights<\/i> of a communist.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I know what they call me. I don\u2019t really care.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> (Laughs) Jim, uh, you\u2019ve been involved in\u2013 in a more recent<\/i> uh, defense and\u2013 and\u2013 and uh, standing up for, for a person, namely uh, [Native American activist] Dennis Banks. Now<\/i>, before we get into that, I just got a sign from the man who says, Take a break. And so we\u2019re gonna take a break. We\u2019ll come back and talk to Jim Jones about Dennis Banks in just a minute.<\/p>\n

Music. Tape edit. Commercials. Music.<\/i><\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Uh, we\u2019re talking to Jim Jones, the Reverend Jim Jones from the uh, Peoples Temple Christian Church. A vast number of people that he\u2019s brought together, of all<\/i> colors, all ethnic backgrounds, all socio-economic levels. Jim, uh, you have been working very hard to uh, to guarantee at least uh, Dennis uh some, some equity uh, in regards to uh, what he\u2019s going through as it relates to his extradition. Uh, what<\/i> are you doing in regards to Dennis Banks at this point? What<\/i> have you done? I\u2013 I read\u00a0a, a very fascinating, uh, uh, little story not too long ago about something that you did in bringing his family and to other things. Tell us about that.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>His wife, Kamook, you know, was arrested in another state, and uh, and\u2013 and suffered a great deal of maltreatment. Her baby was born behind bars, they named her\u00a0 (unintelligible name) and uh, she wasn\u2019t even allowed the normal process of her breasts to be uh, uh, for the milk to be taken care of, so that she developed infections. And she\u2019d been there for four months, and we felt as a congregation, we had to respond<\/i>. Dennis Banks is a good<\/i> man. We\u2019ve helped a lot of people, Cecil. And when they get their health, they\u2019re gone, but the moment we helped this man \u2013 I think we raised $20,000 as a bond for her<\/i> \u2013 he came back time and time again, responding with such graciousness and\u2013 and warmth and compassion. He wept before a congregation of several thousand, and it was really spontaneous. This is a good man. I think Scrimerhorn [phonetic] said in the Examiner<\/i>, that uh, all<\/i> of his witnesses, and even his counsel, had been intimidated back in the state where he had come from, and\u2013 even the Iowa Methodist\u2013\u00a0Iowa Methodist conference<\/i> put up his bond, and they said he had no other choice<\/i> but to leave, because there was even threats<\/i> put out on every one<\/i> of those witnesses, and most<\/i> people have the feeling\u2013 in one of the, I think, one of the district attorneys said that if he comes back, the best\u2013\u00a0He said the best resolution for the Indian movement is a bullet in Dennis Banks\u2019 head. And we have to face the fact that the one that was arrested with him, Annie, I\u2019ve forgotten her last name [American Indian Movement (AIM) activist Anna Mae Pictou Aquash], they said she died of exposure, but there was pressure brought to bear, and she was exhumed, and they found a bullet at close range. And it looks pretty ba\u2013 much like a conspiracy.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> See, that\u2019s<\/i> why you\u2019re so important, because uh, you<\/i> get out there, uh, when the\u2013 when the\u2013\u00a0when the water is rough, uh, you see, you get out there when the wind<\/i> is blowing, uh, very strong, uh, maybe uh, currents against<\/i> people. And you<\/i> uh, in many ways, and the people that you\u2013 you work with, help change that current and that tide, in regards to, to the lives of people. I\u2013 I want to deal with that in just a few minutes, but I want\u2013 let\u2013\u00a0I want to get at some\u2013\u00a0You did something in the Tenderloin area for the senior citizens. They were about to lose protection, uh, you know. Uh, what happened in that situation? That\u2019s my<\/i> area now, you know, that\u2019s where I\u2019m located. And yet you come down there, uh, get me in on the\u2013 on the\u2013\u00a0on the problems that we face down there.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, you get into problems everywhere so (unintelligible phrase under Williams\u2019 laughter), we can help you out a little bit.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Thank you. (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Uh, this<\/i> uh, situation touched us. Here was an inter-racial group of ex-Vietnam veterans who had a\u2013\u00a0a warm<\/i> relationship, a\u2013 a deeply<\/i> warm, family relationship with the predominantly white citizens, who had no love in their life, couldn\u2019t even get \u2013 some of them \u2013\u00a0to give them some groceries, and out of their salary<\/i>, their meager\u2013\u00a0meager salaries, they were helping support<\/i> these senior citizens in that area. And so again, the church felt that they should respond. The program was about to go down the tubes, and we came up with the six thousand dollars to tide them over until they got funded. And now they\u2019re funded, and I\u2019m very happy that that was one of the successes.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> There\u2019s another thing I want to say to our viewers today also, is that uh, on November thirtieth last year, uh, when I<\/i> uh, had uh, it was sort of like a culmination of my ten years in San Francisco, and we called it uh, uh, the uh, uh, change<\/i> agents coming together, celebration for change, at that particular time we \u2013 the Center for Self-Determination, a new program that we<\/i> began at Glide \u2013\u00a0uh, had a, had a benefit, and it was Jim Jones<\/i> who brought 1500 people to that benefit, who bought tickets<\/i>, and, and uh, what, six\u2013\u00a0close to 6000 dollars worth of tickets to that, to that benefit. It was this man<\/i> who\u2013 and his people that did that. Jim, let\u2013 let\u2019s go on. Uh, you know, I want to publicly say that to the people about what you\u2019ve done for me<\/i>, too, my man. But not only there, just being a brother, and\u2013 and being a close friend, where we can talk with each other.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, I wasn\u2019t doing it for you personally, Cecil, I think that the community has to realize that if they are<\/i> concerned about tyranny, communistic or fascistic, they better support groups such as yourself and get involved in everything, and show<\/i> the people that feel alienated that they have a chance to work within society. So, it wasn\u2019t just a personal friendship. We approve of the things you\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Thank you, my man. Thank you. Uh, let\u2019s talk about something that you\u2019ve got going uh, in other countries. South America, for instance.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yes.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Uh, you\u2019ve got quite a\u2013\u00a0quite a resourceful uh, relationship, and uh, some very fascinating<\/i> things taking place down there. What\u2013 What are you engaged in down there?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>We have an agricultural mission there on several thousand acres that\u2019ve been granted<\/i> us, and uh, we\u2019ve acquired from the uh, Republic of Guyana. And we\u2019ve been\u2013\u00a0For instance, last week, we brought in 60,000 pounds of yams<\/i>. That goes a long way to help with the poverty. Plus<\/i> it\u2019s not a paternalistic-type of Christian mission. We give employment to about 200 people. And again, that\u2013 that helps to alter the ugly American image.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Yeah. Sure.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>And\u2013\u00a0and\u2013 and uh, combat the forces of tyranny, right or left.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Um-hmm. Yeah. And that<\/i> uh, that kind of uh, response, uh, certainly means a lot, I\u2019m sure. Where you say, you know, it\u2019s important to give jobs to people, it\u2019s not a maternalistic kind of response of relationship, but you see, that\u2019s the way you are<\/i>. You do that constantly. Uh, you\u2013 you\u2019ve made<\/i> your stand. You keep<\/i> making your stand. You will continue<\/i> to make your stand. You know, the interesting thing about this man is the fact that uh, that you have a lot of uh, resources, uh, uh, in regards to taking care of uh, of uh, not only people, but animals. What do you do that, Jim? Why did you get interested in animals there?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, I\u2019m subjective and very sensitive about animals, but I think sensitive to li\u2013\u00a0to life, there\u2019s some<\/i> sort of correlation, I wouldn\u2019t want to generalize. I\u2019ve notice people who are hardened to animals often\u2013 It carries over, and they\u2019re hardened to humans. Of course, you have strange contradictions, where someone will give all sorts of regard, as Adolf Hitler did, for his animal, and have no regards for human beings. But we feel that you have to have sensitivity for the total life, uh, and\u2013 and\u2013 and we\u2019re concerned that uh, we take in as many animals as we can and neuter them \u2013 there\u2019s a terrible overpopulation and such cruel treatment. I am sure you\u2019re familiar with the way they\u2019re exterminated, some of them are crowded into a vat, or a gas chamber meant for one, they throw 16, 17 dogs in this kind of a situation. We just\u2013 We\u2019re just opposed to cruelty. We\u2013 We like to help wherever there\u2019s need, and there\u2019s a great need with animals. And so, we find ourselves in every facet<\/i> of life, we have geriatric homes, we have a children\u2019s home for retarded chil\u2013 for retarded youngsters, uh, I can\u2013 and we have a free legal services, a medical examination facility under doctors\u2019 auspices, physical therapist and nurse practitioners and R.N.s, particularly senior citizens in the lower socio-economic income level, they have a time with arthritis, and we have\u2013 we\u2019re equipped with (unintelligible medical term) ultrasonic uh, treatment, that we\u2013<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Do you treat everybody?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Oh yes. Anybody\u2013<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> You wouldn\u2019t hold back on anybody.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>No, uh, there\u2019s no membership requirement.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Umm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>No.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> You don\u2019t have\u2013 They don\u2019t have to co\u2013\u00a0beco\u2013 become members, nor do they have to start uh, uh, you know, uh, following<\/i> some kind of a discipline that you, you know\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>No, no, no.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> \u2013put on their heads.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I don\u2019t\u2013\u00ad I don\u2019t believe in this business of having to say a prayer before you get (unintelligible word under Williams\u2019 laugh)\u2013<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Yeah, right. (Laughs) That\u2019s<\/i> what I was getting at, but you caught\u2013\u00a0(Laughs) Exactly. Jim, uh, you do have a great<\/i> ministry. Uh, one thing uh, that, that\u2019s involved in it, has to do with uh, something that uh, that uh, you and I call a healing ministry. Both of us. And a lot<\/i> of people talk about the healing ministry. I had a sister who had cancer 12 years ago, uh, she was operated on, the doctors gave her uh, said in three<\/i> months she would die. My sister is still alive, teaching school, back to health. It was cancer of the pancreas, by the way, very serious.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Considered incurable.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Con\u2013 considered incurable. She\u2019s\u2013\u00a0she\u2019s\u2013\u00a0she\u2019s fine today. Uh, she had a lot of faith. She said, I will not<\/i>, I will not<\/i> give up at this point. What\u2013 talk a little about that.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>There\u2019s a place indeed for a responsible and sane spiritual healing. It must<\/i> be in conjunction with medical science, because we know there\u2019s no panacea. We\u2019ve had similar remissions. I was just thinking while you talked, of a lovely Russian lady who, uh, her\u2013 the metastasis of cancer was so thorough<\/i> that each<\/i> of her lymph glands was swollen like a ball<\/i>. And uh, similarly, she had faith. Give<\/i> purpose. There\u2019s a tremendous dimension that we\u2019re unfamiliar with, and of course, if even in the Soviet Union<\/i>, a materialistic nation supposedly, is spending, what is it, $12 million a year, something like that, to study paranormal faculty, therapeutic healing, many medical science\u2013 uh, scientists now, in nursing schools, medical schools, are emphasizing therapeutic healing<\/i>. The\u2013\u00a0the laying on of hands in\u2013\u00a0in direct correlation with uh, physical treatment, so undoubtedly there\u2019s a dimension there that the responsible<\/i> church must take over. And if we<\/i> don\u2019t, what are we going to leave it to? The uh, the type that says, \u201cTrust God, and don\u2019t go to the doctor.\u201d So many of the people involved in healing want to knock<\/i> medical science. And many<\/i> then die<\/i>. I think they do far more harm<\/i> than good<\/i>, because they\u2019ll keep people from going to medical science. When we<\/i> find someone who thinks they have a healing, we say, get<\/i> to the doctor and verify it.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Good! We\u2019ve gotta take a break, and we\u2019ll come right back and conclude our program with the Reverend Jim Jones.<\/p>\n

Music. Commercial. Tape edit.<\/i><\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Jim Jones. Uh, Jim, where do you get your money from? How\u2013 How do the people\u2013 You know, how do you\u2013\u00a0how do you maintain all<\/i> these, you know, these great programs<\/i> that you\u2019re part of, that you give leadership to? How do you maintain them?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>People are pretty generous when they see how their money is being used. They see\u2013 They see definite results. We got a community center, an indoor swimming pool, and all these rest (stumbles over words), I think we have a novel thing in geriatric facilities, where the senior citizens themselves manage and direct. The only input is manual labor. We don\u2019t dictate to them how\u2013 what about their diet<\/i>, the d\u00e9cor, everything. Uh\u2013 when they see results, people give generously. We don\u2019t have a mandate about tithing. Some do. But of course, we have a large membership<\/i>, and that explains uh, the support, and they\u2019ll put on projects of various sorts. We get no outside help from the community to speak of, but uh, our people are very, very generous.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Jim, where<\/i> are we going to go? Where<\/i> are we going? When\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>In terms\u2013<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> In terms of uh, of society, of America, of the world, where are we going to go? Can you give it to me in 30 seconds? (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I think we have to be very careful that we must<\/i> do something about the alienation of the ethnic groups and rac\u2013 racism. As even [NAACP Executive Director] Roy Wilkins\u2013\u00a0Roy Wilkins, a conservative, and the Senator that just retired. We\u2019ve got a problem<\/i>, and we\u2019ve got to overcome that, because a house divided against itself can\u2019t stand. We must<\/i> do something about racism quickly.<\/p>\n

Williams:<\/b> Here\u2019s a man, I have to tell you, that I think is a\u2013\u00a0If I, you know, being honest, I think he\u2019s a genius, I think he\u2019s a prophet. He\u2019s charismatic. He\u2019s one of our great leaders. I\u2019m<\/i> glad to be associated with you. Brother, we gone stay together, \u2018cause I<\/i> know, if I<\/i> stay with you, we gone make it. (Laughs) We\u2019ll bring about justice. Walk that walk, and talk that talk. And be that be, and love that love, and struggle that struggle. Look for us. We\u2019ll be there.<\/p>\n

Music. Commercial cut off.<\/em><\/p>\n

Side 2:<\/b><\/p>\n

Brief audio burst near end of tape, unintelligible<\/i><\/p>\n

End of tape<\/b><\/p>\n

Tape originally posted April 2006<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. To listen to MP3, click here. Cecil Williams: \u2013who are not only doing things, but people who are really bringing about […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":429,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-27517","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27517","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=27517"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27517\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":59573,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27517\/revisions\/59573"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=27517"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}