{"id":27545,"date":"2013-06-16T00:20:56","date_gmt":"2013-06-16T00:20:56","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/alternativejonestown.com\/?page_id=27545"},"modified":"2025-12-12T11:33:32","modified_gmt":"2025-12-12T19:33:32","slug":"q693","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=27545","title":{"rendered":"Q693 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here.<\/a>
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>, Pt. 2<\/a>).<\/p>\n

(Note:<\/strong> This tape was transcribed by Vicki Perry. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)<\/i><\/p>\n

[Editor’s note<\/strong>: This was the third of three conversations known to have taken place between Jim Jones’ wife Marceline and their adopted daughter Suzanne Jones Cartmell, during Marceline’s trip to the United States during the fall of 1978. Notes from the first are here<\/a>, from September 5, 1978. The second contact<\/a> occurred on September 20, 1978. This call is dated October 17, 1978.] <\/em><\/p>\n

(Side A)<\/strong><\/p>\n

Part 1:<\/strong><\/p>\n

(electronic beep) (recorded message) The time is four thirteen and thirty seconds. (beep) The time is four thirteen and forty seconds. (beep) The time is four thirteen and fifty seconds. (beep) The time is four fourteen exactly. (beep)<\/p>\n

(call terminated)<\/p>\n

(dial tone)<\/p>\n

(rotary phone dialing)<\/p>\n

(phone ringing)<\/p>\n

(recorded message) The time is three twenty seven, exactly.<\/p>\n

(dial tone)<\/p>\n

(rotary phone dialing)<\/p>\n

(phone ringing)<\/p>\n

Receptionist:<\/strong> (unintelligible name), may I help you?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Is uh, Suzanne Cartmell in?<\/p>\n

Receptionist:<\/strong> Uh, may I ask who\u2019s calling?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> This is her mother.<\/p>\n

(phone click) (pause)<\/p>\n

Receptionist:<\/strong> Hello?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Hello, Suzanne?<\/p>\n

Receptionist:<\/strong> Uh, just a minute.<\/p>\n

(click) (pause)<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Hello?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Suzanne?<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> This is your mother.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Hi. I was given a week to call you back which\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, you have plenty of time. (laughs)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, (laughs) it was kind of an ultimatum that I didn\u2019t quite understand, you know, I didn\u2019t\u2013 I wouldn\u2019t have given you<\/em> an ultimatum like that, but I wanted to call you back.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Yeah, well, everybody\u2019s in a different kind of circumstance, so, whatever they, you know, want to do.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, I guess so but, you know, for one thing, uh, when you said that about your dad, you know, it\u2019s hard<\/em> for me to see you, and as a matter of fact I can\u2019t<\/em>, because I\u2013 I don\u2019t work<\/em> that way, if you don\u2019t care\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Okay. Okay. Well then, that\u2019s fine. That\u2019s it, then.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> \u2013for your dad<\/em>. If you don\u2019t\u2013 If you don\u2019t care\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> You don\u2019t have to worry about it then.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> But I don\u2019t understand<\/em>. Your brothers<\/em> [Lew Jones, Jim Jones Jr., Stephan Jones, Tim Tupper Jones] are (unintelligible under Suzanne)\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, then why don\u2019t you meet me?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Hmm?<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Then why don\u2019t you meet me at\u2013 at where I think is best?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m\u2013 What I\u2019m saying<\/em> to you, I don\u2019t understand\u2013 when you say to me you don\u2019t care about your dad.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Okay, well, see, I can explain that. I can explain that, okay? But I can\u2019t do it here, you know, and you can\u2019t do it there. And we can\u2019t do it over the phone. So, okay, if\u2013 if you\u2019re going to go, you know, by what I said over the phone and that\u2019s your reason for not wanting to do it, fine. I understand, okay? And that\u2019ll be the end of it.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Look, look. I want\u2013 I want you\u2013 Just let me\u2013 I just want you to listen to me, Suzanne. First of all, you\u2019ve got to understand, you know, that down through the years, this kind of has been used, you know, I love you, but I don\u2019t love Jim Jones. I care about you, but that\u2013 that doesn\u2019t work because your dad\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> I\u2019m not using<\/em> that, Mom. I\u2019m\u2013 You know, I\u2019m just going to cut off you and everybody, period. Okay? Based on what you tell me.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, let me tell you what\u2019s going on down there.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, I have no idea other than the few\u2013 the few people that you told me to talk to.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ll tell you this, I\u2019ve been down there. And I\u2019ve been around your dad for 29 years.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, I can\u2019t talk about it and listen to all that over the phone. I\u2019m in the middle of another meeting too.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, I\u2013 I\u2019ve had a lot of beautiful experiences, but the\u2013 what\u2019s happening in Jonestown is the most beautiful experience of my life\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> \u2013 and you<\/em> know I wouldn\u2019t be someplace and leave your brothers someplace\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> I know you wouldn\u2019t.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> \u2013 and your nephew [Chaeoke Jones] some place and leave them some place where they were being mistreated and abused.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> I know you wouldn\u2019t leave them. That\u2019s my whole point.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, I\u2013 I don\u2019t know what your point is, because I\u2019ve been\u2013 now, like the reference to my living\u2013 or your dad\u2019s living arrangements.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t want to discuss that now\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I know that\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> \u2013 anyway but he and I are\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay, then well\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, are we having\u2013 Are we going to meet or not?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I cannot meet with you when you are putting your dad<\/em> down.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Okay, that\u2019s it then. Don\u2019t call me here no more and don\u2019t ever call me anywhere else, period. That\u2019s fine. (Pause) That\u2019s fine. I have no problem with that.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> But your dad cries for you.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> I don\u2019t care.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He cares about you.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> I don\u2019t care.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He worries about you.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> I don\u2019t care. (short, nervous laugh) He can do that the rest of his life. I don\u2019t care. I\u2019m just ending it here.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Okay? So, you know, good luck in your\u2013 whatever you do. That\u2019s it. It\u2019s fine.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I\u2019ll tell you one thing, Suzanne. And all I would have\u2013 I want to have one plea with you, please<\/em> don\u2019t ally yourself with our enemies.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> I don\u2019t have any. I don\u2019t associate with anybody. I don\u2019t have any. I\u2019m just on my own, okay? (unintelligible under Marceline)<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, I\u2013 I just want you to know, because, you know, we\u2019re on the offensive now. We\u2019re going to sue because there\u2019ve been lies said. And what\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Sue who?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Huh?<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Sue who?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to sue people that have lied<\/em> on us. And uh, you\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Like what?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, if you\u2019ve been reading the press, you\u2019d\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> No, and I don\u2019t care, \u2018cause\u2013 that\u2019s why I don\u2019t.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay. But Lew\u2013 For one thing Lew is upset and he\u2019s\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> I don\u2019t blame him for being upset.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He\u2019s upset if he thinks that you would g\u2013 get on the other side and do anything.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, he\u2013 he\u2019s\u2013 Well\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And he\u2019ll\u2013 he\u2019ll come back. Please don\u2019t, because he\u2019s angry\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> \u2013 and he\u2019ll come back\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Okay, all I can change my story, if you have them all come back.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> What do you mean?<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> All the boys.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> What story are you talking about? You can change what story?<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> I\u2013 I can change my feelings based on what they personally tell me, face to face and what you personally tell me, face to face. I can change my thoughts and my thinking. Depending on what\u2013 you know, what\u2019s relayed back to me from all<\/em> the boys, person to person, face to face, and what you tell me, person to person, face to face. Then I might be able to change what I\u2019m thinking. Other than that, I can cut it off just as easy. And not ever have anything to do with\u2013 not even knowing you or anybody, period. I can do that.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, okay. As far as that\u2019s concerned, Suzanne, for a year and a half, you know, I haven\u2019t seen you and I don\u2019t think you have wanted to know us. I just don\u2019t want you to get on the other side.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> There is<\/em> no (unintelligible under Marceline)\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Lew\u2013 Lew is going to\u2013 We\u2019ll try\u2013 we\u2019ll say what\u2019s been built for this beautiful\u2013 and you should see your grand\u2013 your\u2013 your nephew and Lew will come back, if you get on the other side and he\u2019ll testify. He\u2019ll testify of things, you know, that\u2019s\u2013 that he knows that you\u2013 he tells<\/em> about you h\u2013 being drunk and trying to get him to have sex with you. He has a\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> That\u2019s a lie.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> (Incredulous) That\u2019s a lie?<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> That\u2019s a lie.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Didn\u2019t you try to get him to use an illegal credit card?<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Nope.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Never. Never. He doesn\u2019t even know what I have. Never.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He says he has a tape of it.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> That\u2019s a lie.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> And he knows about your living with a blond-headed fellow. (unintelligible under Suzanne)<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> That\u2019s\u2013 Well, so? So what? I\u2019m of age.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well\u2013 Okay, Suzanne. I just\u2013 I\u2013 Your dad, you know\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Okay, go ahead and tell me more about that kind of stuff. That\u2019s the very reason I\u2019m gonna cut it off. \u2018Cause those are all, you know, not true.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019d like for you to be\u2013 and hear the beauty of what\u2019s happening, you know? I really would like you to.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, okay\u2013 I\u2013 okay, and I made\u2013 and I made arrangements for<\/em> that. Okay, but you don\u2019t want<\/em> to, so?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I just asked you to come right here and (unintelligible) home.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, no. No. I can\u2019t do that. I mean, you have your reasons for it uh, okay, not wanting to uh, discuss it with me uh, because of what I said to you about Dad, okay? I have my reasons for not wanting to leave here.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> And if we can\u2019t come to a mutual agreement on\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Can\u2019t\u2013 Can\u2019t you\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> \u2013some place, then \u2013and you feel the way you just told me you do, then, you know, we can end it. I don\u2019t have any problem, Mom. I have no regrets.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Oh, but can\u2019t you have any understand\u2013 can\u2019t you understand what your dad thinks of you and that\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> It doesn\u2019t matter.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> \u2013 and it\u2019s good.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> It doesn\u2019t matter.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> You can\u2019t say, you know, that I\u2019m\u2013 I do care about my dad, too?<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> I\u2013 It doesn\u2019t matter whether\u2013 what\u2013 you know, whatever way. Good or bad. \u2018Cause I (unintelligible). It doesn\u2019t matter.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> But that would change it.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> He has no influence.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> (weepy) But what you said to me, I care about you and my brothers, I don\u2019t give\u2013 I care about the other person, you know? And that\u2019s\u2013 if I\u2013 I\u2013 that\u2019s\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, if that\u2019s not acceptable to you, okay, then you don\u2019t have to do anything with it, and I understand, okay? And I won\u2019t have anything to do with it. That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay. Well, I\u2019m sorry I bothered you at work. But I just\u2013 you know, this kind of\u2013 I\u2019ve had other people call me that have worked actively<\/em> on the other side and offered\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t know anything about the other side. I mean I could care less.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> But some of the things you\u2019ve quoted to me had to come from people that\u2019ve come back.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> I have never talked to anybody that came back. Never. Never.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ll tell you, when you talk about him being fat, it was a quote of Mike Cartmell. That\u2019s just exactly the same thing he said to me.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> I haven\u2019t\u2013 I\u2013 He hasn\u2019t been down there, he doesn\u2019t know. I have\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Yeah, but he mentioned that.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> I have never talked to anybody that I\u2013 came back.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, what are the living arrangements?<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> There\u2019s been other people that\u2019s been down there besides those who you think are on the opposite side. (Pause) I have talked to people but not the ones that you thought uh, were supposed to come back home. I wouldn\u2019t even talk to them. I wouldn\u2019t even acknowledge them.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> So you\u2019ve talked to people who\u2019ve come back that are leaving the church?<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> So-called. Or who\u2013 you know, who says it\u2019s really, you know, lovely and nice and all that.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, it is lovely.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, fine, you know, I\u2019m glad.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ll let you go back to work.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Okay, please, you know\u2013 Okay, I want to get it straight. You do not want to meet based on what\u2019s been discussed so far.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> I cannot meet, you know, knowing that you have no use for your dad.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Okay. Okay, fine. Okay, fine. That\u2019s okay. You go ahead and, you know, do what you have to do then and live whatever\u2019s the way you think it should, and I\u2019ll do the same for myself.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He\u2019s been your friend, Suzanne, he\u2019s been your friend.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> He has not.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He has<\/em> been your friend.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> He has not.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> He\u2019s the one that wanted to adopt you\u2013 he\u2019s\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> It don\u2019t matter. I would rather have been dead over there than for him to adopt me and go through all this shit that\u2019s been going on, so it doesn\u2019t matter, okay, Mom? I understand your position, and I want to keep it that way. And I don\u2019t want, you know, you could get out on a limb (unintelligible word) this stuff, so we\u2019ll just make it easy on\u2013 on both of us and just end it.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> But this shit\u2013 your life hasn\u2019t been that bad. You\u2019ve had some good friends, you know? And the things we\u2019ve been going through\u2013 You<\/em> know enough about this system to know that they try to destroy things and do things for black people and poor people. (Pause) (unintelligible under Suzanne)<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, there\u2019s no use crying about it. I mean, a lot of things have gone down and a lot of things have gone on and a lot of things have happened uh\u2013 You know, it may not have been your fault, but you know, it\u2019s somebody\u2019s fault, okay? W\u2013 Good or bad, and somebody\u2019s\u2013 you know, somebody had to initiate it, whether it\u2019s good or bad and, you know, I understand your feeling about it, and I understand why you can\u2019t meet and, you know, so now you can understand why I\u2019m\u2013 the only thing I can have to do is cut it off .<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> (unintelligible) I\u2013 I don\u2019t understand you. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, you know, that\u2019s okay. You know, that\u2019s\u2013 then that\u2019s your problem, not mine, \u2018cause I won\u2019t have any more worries. I won\u2019t have any more to do with this, you know, and I don\u2019t have any enemies and I don\u2019t know what kind of enemies you\u2019re talking about, okay?<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay. Okay.<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> I just stick to myself, period. That\u2019s it. I have never seen anybody that\u2019s come back from down there that\u2019s supposed to be so called on the other side. I wouldn\u2019t even know who they are if I saw them. Okay? \u2018Cause I don\u2019t know who\u2019s back and forth and who is and who is not. I don\u2019t keep track of that. I live my own life. And I don\u2019t want any more part of it. And the only thing I\u2019ve wanted to do was to talk to you one to one, okay, to tell you what my feelings were, what my concerns were, and that was all. Okay? I might say a few things that you may not like, and I may say some other things that were shocking to you, but that was my only chance. Okay? To meet with you one to one, to tell you how I felt about it, just on my own. You know it, Mom. It\u2019s (unintelligible) there that I\u2019ve always kept to myself and there were many times when you asked me why I was so sad about certain things, and only you had a feeling of why it was that (unintelligible word) could never talk about it. And\u2013 and\u2013 and I got that feeling from you. I cannot think about this any more. Okay? And that\u2019s why I felt (unintelligible) and nobody else, but you know, now all of that has gone and has passed and you know, everybody has their own life to live.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> \u2018Course, down through the years, I\u2019ve talked to you (unintelligible) but you really didn\u2019t handle (unintelligible) Which is a natural thing. (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> No, it isn\u2019t natural, in fact, I could tell you some stories about that that you don\u2019t know about it, you know, (unintelligible word) completely (unintelligible) and I did want you to know that.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well, I (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Well, he may have told you eventually, \u2018cause he might have been afraid that it would get to you in some other way, but I\u2019m sure everything\u2019s been distorted so, you know, why (unintelligible). I only know my own\u2013 I know only my side of the story, no one else\u2019s. And I can cite you some examples that you were aware of, that you knew of, and then I may have told you some other ways because you did not recollect at the time it happened, but I remember every detail of it, and only I know it. I have not repeated it to a soul and I don\u2019t intend to. Only one I wanted to talk to was you. So, you know, I mean\u2013 I gave you an ultimatum about meeting this week, one to one at a certain place. You didn\u2019t want that and you gave me your reason for it, which is acceptable to me now, okay? I understand it and I\u2019m not going to fuss about it. I\u2019ll just go along with it and what\u2013 I\u2019m just telling it\u2013 you know, for that reason. For your reason and for my reason, we\u2019ll just end it here.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Well\u2013<\/p>\n

Suzanne:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Marceline:<\/strong> Okay. Very painful. (Pause) Thanks.<\/p>\n

(END OF SIDE A)<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

(Side B)<\/strong><\/p>\n

Part 2:<\/strong><\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> And Theresa\u2019s here, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Oh, wonderful. Look, uh, Darrin can\u2019t seem to get a hold of Donna, do you copy?<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Uh, roger, I copy. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> You know, Charlie\u2019s trying to\u2013 to get a hold of Donna uh, he told me that (unintelligible) possible (unintelligible). Do you copy?<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Yes, I copy. I talked to her last night. I know she\u2019s there, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Well, I tried to but (unintelligible) get a hold of Donna until I get a hold of Darrin because uh, Darrin has some information that Donna needs. Okay? Over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Roger, roger. Uh, Donna said yesterday that she was looking forward to hearing<\/em> from Darrin uh, and\u2013 and she had some questions, and so I guess that\u2019ll fit<\/em>. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Roger, roger. Darrin said (unintelligible) real connection between where Darrin is and where Donna is. (unintelligible) not working quite well, so it would be better if uh\u2013 if Donna uh\u2013 if I would get a hold of Darrin, I think (unintelligible) better where Donna is. Over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Okay, Well, I\u2019ll be sure and do that. I can do that right away if she\u2019s home. I\u2019ll keep trying \u2018till I get her, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Thanks so much. Now, how is everything else? Over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Oh, pretty good, Sarah. I did have a note here from the doctor at the clinic. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Roger, roger. (unintelligible) what the doctor said. Over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Okay, uh, it\u2019s Betty\u2019s opinion\u2013 it\u2019s Betty\u2019s opinion uh, that it\u2019s in the best interest of the patient\u2013 Do you copy so far, Sarah, over?<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Yes. Yes.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> To hire the therapist. To hire the therapist. Because that gives the patient a controlled therapy program and the security of knowing that it will be a regular planned program. You copy so far? Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Yeah, roger, roger.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> And the therapist\u2019s time would not be taken up with other patients at the same time, uh, and that it would assure the patients\u2019 uh, you know, confidential relationship with the doctor. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Yes, I understand that. Uh, (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Did\u2013 What did you say, Sarah? Please repeat, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Roger, roger. I am (unintelligible) there\u2019s a considerable amount (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Okay, well, we wanted you to know. Uh, certainly the doctor, uh, the pres\u2013 the prognosis from this end and uh, Betty is pretty uh, adamant about that. Betty\u2013 Betty feels that uh, that\u2019s a\u2013 a necessity so\u2013 W\u2013 We\u2019ll\u2013 We\u2019ll try<\/em> to uh, get a, you know, a b\u2013 balanced view, but we want you to know that that\u2019s what she\u2019s hanging on. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Roger. But the problem is (unintelligible) the person\u2019s uh\u2013 I don\u2019t know\u2013 uh, I really would\u2019ve done it except the uh, cost (unintelligible), over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Oh. You say that\u2013 that it\u2019s simply not there, the patient just can\u2019t uh, afford that. Is that a roger? Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s a reality. That\u2019s a reality. As far as the other episode (unintelligible) medical staff here about (unintelligible) uh, like Sally and uh, a few other people felt. That\u2019s uh, also a con\u2013 a real consideration because without the problem (unintelligible word) Betty would say something like the sky\u2019s the limit (unintelligible) that kind of attitude has gone on for (unintelligible). Over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Well, Sarah, wha\u2013 what we\u2019d like to know of course, to\u2013 to uh, be as accurate as possible on the patient\u2019s behalf, uh, what would be the other considerations? What would be<\/em> the other considerations that uh, we could explain<\/em> it? Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> I thought uh, (unintelligible) also feel that also what uh\u2013 (unintelligible) that (unintelligible) the doctor that uh, predicted (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Wait a minute\u2013 Sarah, uh, I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m going to have to ask you to back up and slow down because I don\u2019t have that good a copy on you and I want to get this accurately. Can you repeat? Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Okay. Remember (unintelligible; very static filled) Over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Roger. I<\/em> know the doctor. Roger, roger, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Well, that doctor as well (unintelligible) all the (unintelligible) that is uh, (unintelligible) very difficult\u2013 (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Hello? Sarah, you\u2019re gonna have to back up. I copy about the doctors. I also care\u2013 copy about\u2013 about uh, Gordon and friend, and they all feel the patient something and I can\u2019t<\/em> copy you after that. I\u2013 I\u2013 You\u2019re going to have to speak up if you will. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> (unintelligible) at all because there\u2019s no (unintelligible) relationship (unintelligible) afford this and cannot be separated from (unintelligible). Over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Well, all I copy is that they all feel the patient should not be beholden uh, to Nathan? Uh, with Nathan\u2019s help, over?<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Wilson could not help her, because (unintelligible) not to know because\u2013 Stand by. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> (Aside) I\u2013 I just don\u2019t follow her.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Because (unintelligible) this is why (unintelligible) later down the line, this is because they no longer want to be\u2013 be associated with the patient or supposed (unintelligible) follow the advice and act on his own, and then it\u2019s\u2013 that because they don\u2019t want to be responsible<\/em> for the patient (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Okay, uh, well, I understand that. The fact is that uh, we\u2019re not sure, if that\u2019s, you know, that that\u2019s\u2013 I mean that\u2019s consensus, if that\u2019s the clinic\u2019s consensus, we\u2019re\u2013 but there seem to be some differing opinion, uh, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Roger, roger. But Gordon, Sally, (unintelligible) and the other doctor (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Okay, Sarah, well, uh, hol\u2013 Could you hold the line just a minute, please?<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> All right. I\u2019ll be right back to you. I\u2019m going\u2013 I got a phone call here, and I\u2019m\u2013 and I know I don\u2019t want to run up the bill but uh, I\u2019ll be right back to you. And thank you for this kind uh, patch, operator, I\u2019ll be right back.<\/p>\n

HAM operator:<\/strong> (unintelligible word) be standing by. This is (unintelligible call letters) WVI WV6, MIV slash KR3 WB5 VCR (unintelligible), uh, the copy\u2019s coming back pretty fair, Sarah.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Roger that. (unintelligible) over.<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> Okay. This is really strange. Uh, I\u2019m sitting here with a half of a uh, stereo headset on and a microphone on my lap, and a telephone in my hand. All kinds of uh, wires dangling at my knees.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Hello? Operator? I\u2019m back. I\u2013 I\u2019m back. This is Jean.<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Go ahead.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Okay, Sarah. Uh, Betty\u2013 Betty had uh, the idea that if uh, she and Nathan\u2013 if Betty and Nathan helped uh, then the patient really wouldn\u2019t be responsible. Uh, it would simply be Betty\u2019s<\/em> responsibility, and she\u2013 and she of course wants the patient\u2019s trust<\/em> in that regard. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> So where do they want (unintelligible) job. Over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Well, that would not\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2013 That would not necessarily\u2013 That\u2019s uh, Betty\u2019s<\/em> decision and Betty\u2019s\u2013 Betty\u2019s responsibility. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Well, uh, I\u2019ll double check on that but I\u2013 as\u2013 as long as Betty doesn\u2019t bill Mrs. Clark later, I uh, you know. Over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> No, absolutely not. Uh, I don\u2019t think that that would\u2013 that doctor wants to do this on his own, and uh, Betty wants to see that that\u2019s\u2013 that that\u2019s taken care\u2013 on his own. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ll run that by. I\u2019ll run that by and see what everybody says and then uh, I can get back to you on that. Over. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Okay. We\u2013 we\u2019d like a little more time on this. We want to try to, you know, get back to the doctor, and I think we have an appointment this afternoon, so we\u2019ll give him\u2013 Is it okay if we\u2013 All right\u2013 It\u2013 it\u2019s okay to explain the\u2013 the reasoning on this, isn\u2019t it? Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Sure, roger roger. Uh, I don\u2019t think Betty will agree<\/em> but she\u2019s a little headstrong, but that\u2019s the reasoning, over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> You don\u2019t think that Betty will agree but you think it can\u2019t hurt to explain. Is that a roger? Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> That\u2019s a roger. Over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> That\u2019s a roger. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Is there anything else?<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Uh, no, I don\u2019t think so. Uh, hmm? Just uh\u2013 uh\u2013 uh, Mr. Parks and Cecilia\u2013<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Mr. Parks and Cecilia are having uh\u2013 uh\u2013 had an appointment with Melinda. Uh, over. They\u2019re there right now, as a matter of fact, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Oh. That\u2019s nice. That\u2019s nice. I hope they have a good time.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Okay, uh, that\u2019s all from this end right now. Uh, we can\u2013 (Pause) Yeah, do you have any idea when uh, Darrin is expected? Uh, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> I have no idea at all. I got this message from him a little\u2013 about an hour and a half, two hours ago. They\u2019re trying to get a (unintelligible word) uh, they said that they were trying to get a hold of uh, of Donna right away. If Donna could uh, get a hold of him\u2013 of him, over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Uh, you\u2019re saying then, that as far as you know that uh, Darrin\u2019s at the capital right now. That\u2019s a roger? Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s a roger. That\u2019s a roger, definitely. They\u2019re on the uh, (unintelligible). Tomorrow at the earliest. Over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> I\u2019m sorry, Sarah, you\u2019re going to have to repeat that. Uh, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> He won\u2019t be travelling until tomorrow at the earliest. Over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Yeah, we understand that. We understand that. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Roger, roger. Have you heard from Gordon? I hope he\u2019s okay, over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Oh, roger. That was a big misunderstanding. I\u2019m glad you asked. G\u2013 Gordon is fine. Gordon is just fine. It was uh, Josephine\u2019s misunderstanding, and Gordon said that he would give Josephine a call and get it all straightened out. I\u2019m not quite sure why Josephine misunderstood. Uh, I think she maybe\u2019s just a little bit uh, unsettled<\/em> by the situation and uh, she uh, just didn\u2019t uh, give an accurate uh, description of the conversation to anybody<\/em>. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Oh, I see, that\u2019s\u2013\u00a0 Well, (unintelligible name) a little distraught about hearing it was (unintelligible) with her relatives. Okay, well, I\u2019ll tell (unintelligible word) Gordon is doing (unintelligible) and please send him our best regards. We\u2019re really, really grateful to him and his phone, over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Okay, Sarah. Well, I sure will and uh, he\u2019s real<\/em> anxious to get together with Sally and (unintelligible word) and he has all kinds of plans so I am sure that uh, we\u2019ll be back to you on uh, later developments with Gordon. He\u2019s doing just fine. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s tremendous, that\u2019s tremendous. Yeah, I know Sally had (unintelligible) good idea that (unintelligible) going back but I thought that Sally was part of it. (unintelligible) do well. (unintelligible). But thanks a lot and send our love to everyone there, and we miss you all a lot and uh, we\u2019ll be talking to you later. Okay?<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Okay. Sarah, can you give us an approximate time when we can expect another call from you, because uh, we\u2019re using the phone here and we\u2019d like to uh, we have a lot of people to\u2013 to contact and uh, we\u2019d like to know when\u2013 about when we should be leaving it free, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Sure. Uh, let\u2019s try at about six at our time. How\u2019s that? Would that be o\u2013 is that all right? That\u2019s 2 o\u2019clock your time but (unintelligible). Uh, but we\u2019ll do our best. Over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Okay, well, we\u2019ll\u2013 Starting around two our time, we\u2019ll leave it free for you. Sure appreciate the patching, and uh\u2013 and thanks a million to this fine operator who\u2019s uh, helped us out so much here. HAM operators are\u2013 you\u2019re in a class all by yourself. I appreciate the help more than words can say. I\u2019m going to terminate from here, then, uh, Sarah, and uh, say thanks a lot for the QSL. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Roger, roger. I\u2019ve got to go out of here. We have some guests from Finland through the day, uh, they\u2019ve come all the way and I want to be there and be part of the welcome. They came all the way up to this part of the country, just to see the project, so I\u2019m going to go out and uh, greet them. (unintelligible). Over.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Okay, did you say from Finland? I didn\u2019t hear you, did you say from Finland? Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> That\u2019s a roger.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Roger, roger. Well, that\u2019s great news. Great news. We\u2019d uh\u2013 that\u2019s tremendous. Uh\u2013 Well, uh, I\u2019m going to say 73\u2019s and we\u2019ll expect to hear from you around two our time then. So take care and uh, try to get us any more feedback you can and uh, you know, on, uh, especially on Betty. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Roger. Roger. Take care of yourself and bye-bye.<\/p>\n

Jean:<\/strong> Bye-bye, Sarah. Thank you for your time.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Part 3:<\/strong><\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> You worked through a phone patch before?<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Yes, I have, and my name is Sandy.<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> Okay, Sandy. I\u2019m going to have to use uh, the foot switch in activating it and the signal is very bad<\/em>\u2013<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> It\u2019s late in the day. Okay, it\u2019s about fifteen meters, so just bear with us.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> WB6MID plan 8R3, WB3 JRW. I have Sandy<\/em> on the line and uh, we can go ahead and start with your half. So you go ahead and start on that side, Mike. WB6MID plan 8R3, WB3 JRW.<\/p>\n

Mike:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 Okay, hi, Sandy. This is Mike and I\u2019m going to turn the microphone over to Sarah here. I wanted to say hi to Sarah. I wanted to switch to the mic, over.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Okay, roger, roger. Hi, Sarah, how ya doing? Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Hi, how are you, Sandy? Over.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Just great. Just great. Uh, what\u2019s new, over?<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Oh, listen, uh, you know what? (unintelligible) Over.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Yes, roger, roger. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Yeah, just what will (unintelligible) just real great, over.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s good to hear. That\u2019s real good to hear. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> (unintelligible; very weak)<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> Okay, go ahead and pick it up. You can\u2019t\u2013 Take it along because the band is really terrible.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Okay, Sarah, it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s pretty hard to copy you right now, uh, some of your other friends here are\u2013 are meeting with another friend of yours, Hilda. You remember Hilda? They\u2019re meeting with her now<\/em>, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> (unintelligible; weak signal) Over.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Well, uh, let\u2019s see, pretty good, I think. Pretty good. Jerry met with Hilda and a friend of Hilda\u2019s this morning and that, you know, was pretty uh, pretty much just a casual uh, encounter but uh, uh, actually we\u2019ll know more this afternoon after uh, Charlie gets back, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Roger. (unintelligible) called uh, called uh, you know, (unintelligible) over. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t copy all that. You said Mel called 8R1, and I didn\u2019t copy the rest, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> (unintelligible) wanted to tie down with Betty, uh, over.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Yes, roger, roger. That\u2019s what uh, was mentioned briefly, uh, this morning that uh\u2013 Actually Mel thought he\u2019d like working with Rodney directly better. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> (unintelligible) uh, when Mel called her. They\u2019re just trying to get uh, your opinion on Mel (unintelligible) right now (unintelligible) at the same time. Over.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Yeah, roger, roger. I think that\u2019s kind of what Irene and Rudy are doing also. I just trying to get, you know, uh, an opinion on uh, the case so uh, I don\u2019t have anything definite for you at this time. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Roger, roger. (unintelligible). Over.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> (to herself) I didn\u2019t copy that. (louder) I\u2019m sorry, Sarah, I\u2019m negative copy. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> (unintelligible; very weak signal) Over.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> I don\u2019t have anything else, uh, for you from here at this time, but it\u2019s very difficult for me to copy you, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Uh, maybe so, \u2018cause you\u2019re very, very faint, uh, unless it\u2019s something that you know, uh, really uh, needs to be gotten to the\u2013 the people here right away. I\u2013 Whatever you think, Sarah. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Well, I just have some (unintelligible word) to uh, you know, try to (unintelligible) else about\u2013 about (unintelligible) they had passed on to you earlier. Over.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Uh, well, you can try, you can try. Uh, I\u2019ll do the best I can, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Roger, roger. Did Alena call Preston in Indiana? Over.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know. Uh, I was gone this morning with Jerry so uh, I don\u2019t know if she did or not. She made about nineteen calls she said, you know, very happy to see a lot of her friends. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> Roger, roger, uh\u2013 You know uh, if there are people down here that (unintelligible) blank (unintelligible) paper. Do you copy?<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Blank, eight and a half by uh, question mark uh, lined paper, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> (unintelligible) really been trying though, over.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Eight and a half by thirteen ruled and numbered paper. Over.<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> By fourteen.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Oh, fourteen.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> (unintelligible) now, over.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Okay, very good, uh, roger, roger. Over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> (unintelligible). I don\u2019t want to waste your call. (unintelligible). Over.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> I\u2019m sorry, I didn\u2019t copy all of that, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> I\u2019ll try back later. I don\u2019t want to waste your money. (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

(Sandy and male laughing)<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Oh, okay, roger, roger. Seventy three, Sarah, over.<\/p>\n

Sarah:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Thanks an awful lot. What\u2019s your call sign there?<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> WB3 JRW.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> And where\u2019s it from?<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> It\u2019s from Maryland.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Okay, thanks an awful lot. Really appreciate it.<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> Uh-huh. My pleasure.<\/p>\n

Sandy:<\/strong> Bye.<\/p>\n

Operator:<\/strong> Okay, bye-bye.<\/p>\n

(END OF SIDE B)<\/strong><\/p>\n

Tape originally posted January 2012<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1, Pt. 2). (Note: This tape was transcribed by Vicki Perry. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.) [Editor’s note: This was the third […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":465,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-27545","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27545","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=27545"}],"version-history":[{"count":12,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27545\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":132979,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27545\/revisions\/132979"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=27545"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}