{"id":27551,"date":"2013-06-16T00:20:57","date_gmt":"2013-06-16T00:20:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/alternativejonestown.com\/?page_id=27551"},"modified":"2014-04-03T23:57:14","modified_gmt":"2014-04-03T23:57:14","slug":"q708","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=27551","title":{"rendered":"Q708 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here.<\/a>
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Dial tone<\/em><\/p>\n

Phone being dialed<\/em><\/p>\n

Electronic buzz<\/em><\/p>\n

Dial tone<\/em><\/p>\n

Phone rings<\/em><\/p>\n

Recording:<\/strong> The time is 3:54 exactly\u2013<\/p>\n

June Crym:<\/strong> How are you doing?<\/p>\n

Charles Garry: <\/strong>Fine.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Uh, I was uh, talking and apparently there wa\u2013 uh, we put your message over on the phone, you know, that you had talked to uh, Leona [Collier] and Jean [Brown] and Tom [Adams]\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> \u2013last night, and uh, Marcy [Marceline Jones] uh, had some answers for you which uh, I\u2019m calling you about now.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Let me hear it.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Okay, uh\u2013 It\u2019s pretty serious because uh, uh, well, at this point, Jim has had\u2013 is (unintelligible word) very ill.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Do you want to come over here and discuss this?<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well, no, I\u2013 I really don\u2019t have time at the moment, but I just\u2013 it won\u2019t take too long on the phone.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>That\u2019s all right.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> It\u2019s just that uh, he has uh, lost a lot of weight, about\u2013 almost 30 pounds and he can only get out of bed at this point and so, uh\u2013 They have him packed in ice and (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Where is this?<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well, I guess he\u2019s in the interior still, but uh, at this point, Marcy has uh, you know, gotten the weight of the decision-making on her shoulders, and uh, she uh, is very bewil\u2013 uh, bewildered about the whole thing, uh, because of his illness and all that. He\u2019s almost comatose and uh, she was very worried about uh\u2013 Well, you said something about the letter that uh, Mark [Lane] had sent, that it would go badly<\/em> for us, and uh, she was very concerned about that letter and wanted to know about\u2013 you know, more about how could it go down (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, let me ask you this. (Pause) I\u2019ve got to know what the uh, attitude of the Guyanese government is.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> The attitude of the Guyanese government.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>You see, there\u2019s some things in that second part of the letter. Have you read the letter?<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Yes, I have read the letter.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>The second page of that letter would infuriate<\/em> the Guyanese government, for one thing, (Pause) and you\u2019ve got to completely<\/em> disown that letter.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> How would it get\u2013 uh, I don\u2019t understand (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Did you read the uh, letter that [Rep. Leo] Ryan wrote to the government?<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Yes, I read that.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, that answers itself, doesn\u2019t it.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well, it seems like Mr. Ryan is on a one-sided course. He\u2019s very\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>No, no. He\u2019s absolutely correct<\/em>. He\u2019s absolutely correct in his analysis of uh\u2013 of uh, Lane\u2019s letter. Lane\u2019s letter says that\u2013 reads into that that the Temple is dissatisfied from where they are, and they\u2019ve got two other countries that they may go to. That\u2019s what that letter says. Now, is that a nice thing to tell\u2013 pass on to the Guyanese government?<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well, you have a point there. Uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>A point<\/em>? June, it\u2019s disastrous<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> I think at this point right now, I\u2013 it\u2019s kind of like Marcy has got the weight of the whole thing on her shoulders.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>I\u2019ve<\/em> got the weight of\u2013 the shoulders of my re\u2013 my\u2013 it\u2019s my responsibility now. And I\u2019m either gonna accept it, or I\u2019m gonna reject getting involved in it. It\u2019s that clear.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s the thing that she\u2019s very concerned about, because\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, then, that letter has to be disowned<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> She\u2019s asking if you can just wait until Jim\u2019s better\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>No.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> \u2013and he can talk directly to you about it.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>No.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> It\u2019s something that\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>No, because the damage is already done, and it\u2013 unless it\u2019s rectified, by the time the congressman gets there, it\u2019s gonna be\u2013 the damage is\u2013 I cannot undo<\/em>. I\u2019m not<\/em> going to allow this organization \u2013 if I have anything to do with it \u2013 to go down the drain because of somebody\u2019s goddamn ego shit.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well, I think that it wasn\u2019t necessarily ego<\/em>, I mean, he was just trying\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, then, he was sticking his fucking nose in where it didn\u2019t belong. The least<\/em> he could\u2019ve done is call me to find out what the hell he should do<\/em> about it.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> I know that uh, uh\u2013 Well, all I can say is that she just wants you to wait until Jim is better\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>I will not wait. (Pause) I will not wait, because it cannot<\/em> wait.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> I know that we need to present a united stand, and when Jim is up and better, it can be worked out.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, in the meantime, this asshole\u2019s gonna be there Tuesday. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>What do I do with that<\/em>, June?<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> I understand what you\u2019re saying, it\u2019s just\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>I\u2019m not gonna permit it to happen. (Pause) If I remain on the case, I<\/em> will blast the goddamn thing that he\u2019s stuck his goddamn nose into it.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> It\u2019s just that I know that uh, Jim would not want\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>I\u2013 I\u2013 It\u2019s\u2013 To me, it\u2019s not a question\u00a0 of equivocating. It\u2019s a question of my responsibility and my duty. I either have something to say about how these matters are going to be handled, or else I\u2013 or else I\u2019m not going to be in the case.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> But I know that Jim would not want you to not be in the case. That\u2019s the point. (unintelligible under Garry)<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, I want to remain in the case, June, but I happen to be a person that\u2019s got some ideas, and\u2013 and that second page of that letter, to me, is disastrous<\/em>. The implication in there is that we\u2019ve got a bunch of people who are on fugi\u2013 are\u2013\u00a0who are fugitives. Do we have any fugitives there?<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Yeah, we have fugitives there.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>That\u2019s what that letter says. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s talking about refuge\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Oh, yes, I know what he\u2019s talking about. Sticking his fucking goddamn nose into a situation that he doesn\u2019t know his ass from a hole in the ground. Is he contemplating a lawsuit against the United States government?<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well, I think that he\u2019s being (unintelligible word) in the letter.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>What?<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> \u2013and that\u2019s been printed in the paper, and he\u2013 uh, that\u2019s\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, I already blew the stack on that<\/em> one, and then it\u2019s repeated again, and permitted to be repeated without anybody stopping him.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> I wish there\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>I can\u2019t stay on the case, June, I just want to tell you that.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> I wish there were some way we could just get cooperation (unintelligible under Garry)\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>June? I can\u2019t\u2013 June, I cannot stay on the case. I cannot stay on the case under these conditions. I\u2019m either in charge, or I\u2019m not<\/em> in charge.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> But it\u2013 you know that Jim does not want you to be\u2013 to not<\/em> be on the case (unintelligible under Garry)\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>It\u2019s not being on the case\u2013 Am I in charge, or am I not in charge?<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well, of course<\/em>, you\u2019re in charge.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, if I\u2019m in charge, then I<\/em> should be the one that should be there with the committee in\u2013 in\u2013 in Guyana. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>If anybody\u2019s gonna protect the rights of the organization, it\u2019s my job. It\u2019s either my<\/em> job, or it\u2019s not<\/em> my job.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well, I know it\u2019s (unintelligible under Garry)\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>There\u2019s no if\u2019s\u2013 June, there\u2019s no if\u2019s, and\u2019s and but\u2019s about this.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>There\u2019s no halfway point about this.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> I know, but if at the time where she has to make a decision and Jim is unable to even respond\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, then she has the choice of making a decision. She knows me, she knows my work, she knows my integrity. She can make the decision that I will be one to call the shots. Or it\u2019s gonna be Mark Lane<\/em> that\u2019s gonna call the shots. It\u2019s not going to be two of us calling the shots.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> It can be\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Clear?<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> I understand what you\u2019re driving at. Okay, well, Charles, I\u2019ll just (unintelligible under Garry)\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>You work for a lawyer. You\u2019ve worked for law firms. Your<\/em> firm wouldn\u2019t put up with things like that. It\u2019s\u2013 It\u2019s very damaging<\/em> to the client<\/em>. I cannot handle it that way.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Yeah, I understand how you feel, I just wish there was\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>It\u2019s not a question of how I feel. It has nothing to do<\/em> with how I feel. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>The question is, who\u2019s gonna make the decisions on behalf of the client<\/em>? It\u2019s not a question of feeling. Hell, if it was a question of feeling, I wouldn\u2019t give a shit. It\u2019s a question of who<\/em> makes these decisions. Who makes decisions regarding the law, regarding investigations, regarding directions of the case. Is he<\/em> gonna make it? Doesn\u2019t know his first\u2013 first goddamn thing<\/em> about this thing. What files<\/em> has he read, what research<\/em> has he done over the period of months? He doesn\u2019t know a goddamn thing about<\/em> things, and he\u2019s popping off<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well, you know, at this\u2013 The thing where I\u2019m worried about is that\u2013 is considering Jim\u2019s condition, and Marcy is totally depending on (unintelligible, could be \u201cyou now\u201d), and to ask her to make a decision at this point is just unreasonable, and she\u2013 She\u2013 She\u2019s all the way\u2013 She\u2019s totally upset about his physical condition.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>June\u2013 June, just say, I am unreasonable. When it comes to directions, and the best interests of my client, I am very<\/em> unreasonable. I\u2019m very unbending<\/em> when it comes to what I think is best for my client. I either remain<\/em> in the case, or I don\u2019t<\/em> remain in the case. It\u2019s just as simple as that.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>And if Marcy<\/em> doesn\u2019t have enough confidence in me<\/em>, then I\u2019m gonna get out of the case.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think it\u2019s a matter of confidence\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>No, ah, yes it is. It\u2019s a question of either Lane or myself. Forget it.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> I see\u2013 I\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>It\u2019s as simple as that. She\u2019s gotta make a decision.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Okay, I\u2019ll relay your message.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>It\u2019s either Lane<\/em> or myself. If Lane<\/em> can keep his goddamn<\/em> nose out of the legal matters, I don\u2019t care what<\/em> he does. But I don\u2019t want him to be popping off about conspiracies<\/em>, that we\u2019re gonna sue the government<\/em>, we\u2019re gonna do this<\/em>, we\u2013 If we decide to sue the government, we\u2019re not gonna be popping off about it.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Okay, well, Charles, I\u2019ll relay your message.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s unequivocal. It\u2019s uh\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013 If this is not done, I\u2019m retiring from the case.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Then what will we<\/em> do?<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>What?<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> What would we do<\/em> at that point?<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, you\u2019d have to get another attorney.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> (unintelligible) That\u2019s very\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Get Mark Lane. You\u2019ve been dealing with the\u2013 with the guy. Deal<\/em> with him.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> (unintelligible) very involved\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, if this is\u2013<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> I\u2019m sure we\u2019ll be getting back to you.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, the thing is, I\u2019m beginning to get so pissed<\/em> about this, that even if they make<\/em> a\u00a0 decision, I don\u2019t want to remain representing the client. Because if it\u2019s gonna require this<\/em> kind of effort, every time that there\u2019s something serious going on, I can\u2019t handle it emotionally. I can\u2019t deal with it.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s very hard on Marcy also.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s goddamn hard on me<\/em>. \u2018Cause the responsibility is with me. When I walk into the courtroom and the lawyers say to me, what the hell are you doing with your client, Garry? You\u2019re taking a beating, you\u2019re\u2013 you\u2019re losing the battle of public opinion, you\u2013 you got a bunch of child snatchers, and I can\u2019t do a goddamn<\/em> thing about it, because my clients tie my hands up, and then I have this asshole popping off. I can\u2019t deal<\/em> with it.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> I know how you feel. All I know is that Marcy was so upset, she was crying on the phone.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, what do you think? I haven\u2019t slept at all since last night. (Pause) I\u2019m so goddamn upset, I can\u2019t see straight, June, I want you to know that, and it\u2019s been years and years and years and years since I\u2019ve had this kind of a problem to (unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> I can tell\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>I thought I was the attorney<\/em> for this Temple. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well, you are.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, then, what the hell is Lane<\/em> doing in it?<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 Well, I\u2019ll just gonna have to relay your message (unintelligible). This is gonna require more feedback. All I\u2013 I can just show them. I\u2013 I don\u2019t know what the reaction will be.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Well, you tell her that uh, I consider myself already ousted from the case.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s very serious, Charles, and we have\u2013<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Of course<\/em>, it\u2019s very serious, and I\u2019m very serious about it. I feel so strongly<\/em> about it that I\u2019ve got to take a firm position, one way or the other. I cannot vacillate, I can\u2019t stand up in the air. The very fact that Jim is ill, I\u2019m not gonna permit this kind of wishy<\/em>-washy situation to run wild. I\u2019m either in charge of this case, or I\u2019m not.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>It\u2019s one way or the other. There\u2019s no halfway measure.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n

Crym:<\/strong> Okay. Bye-bye.<\/p>\n

Garry: <\/strong>Bye.<\/p>\n

End of tape<\/strong><\/p>\n

Tape originally posted May 2012<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3. Dial tone Phone being dialed Electronic buzz Dial tone Phone rings Recording: The time is 3:54 exactly\u2013 June […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":472,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-27551","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27551","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=27551"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27551\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":59820,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27551\/revisions\/59820"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=27551"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}