{"id":27610,"date":"2013-06-16T00:21:19","date_gmt":"2013-06-16T00:21:19","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/alternativejonestown.com\/?page_id=27610"},"modified":"2014-05-23T15:28:32","modified_gmt":"2014-05-23T15:28:32","slug":"q907","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=27610","title":{"rendered":"Q907 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

This tape was transcribed by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here.<\/a>
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3<\/a>.<\/p>\n

(Editor\u2019s note<\/strong>: This transcript does not include all the verbal acknowledgements during the phone conversation when the other person is speaking.)<\/em><\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> He missed me, so uh, I\u2019ll just try and get back to him. Uh, when do you expect him back?<\/p>\n

Sandy Bradshaw:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 Probably not until tomorrow night.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> I can give you a little bit of rundown now, what\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Okay, (word cut off)<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> \u2013uh, he was calling about. This is Sandy Bradshaw. I talked to you\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Oh, sure. Yeah.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> \u2013one other time before. Uh, we were just uh, wondering uh, we may<\/em> be interested in having uh, uh, someone do a documentary.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Mm-hmm [Yes].<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> And we\u2019re just sort of uh, thinking about at this point in time. And uh, one thing that uh, Jim has always uh, felt a lot of regard for you, and uh, wanted us to be sure and\u2013 and uh, give the offer to you to see uh, how you would feel about it, it uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Yeah, do you mean uh, uh, what uh, a television news documentary? Is that what\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Yeah, uh-huh [yes].<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Yeah, mm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> But we would need to know like how long<\/em> it would take and just some uh, basic ground rules type thing in\u2013 in writing, to see uh\u2013 \u2018cause we do have some other possibilities, but he wanted to be sure that you knew, uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Mm-hmm [Yes]. Well, I\u2019ve been trying of course to get to Jim for a long, long time, but we\u2013 we were friends way back when uh\u2013\u00a0when the Peoples Temple started, and then uh\u2013 and he got involved in a lot of our projects on the air, and I was\u2013\u00a0I was one of his big boosters, and I was probably as shocked as anybody<\/em> when all\u2013 whatever happened, happened. We have kind of stayed away from this story, because we haven\u2019t understood<\/em> it, and uh\u2013\u00a0until recently when uh\u2013 when we\u2013\u00a0I received some information from people in the Temple about uh, the little boy [John Victor Stoen] and this is why Jim didn\u2019t want to come back, because he wanted to make sure that the uh, custody case was settled, or something to that effect. And I<\/em> had\u2013 and then there\u2013 then some negative publicity came out about uh, British Guiana and\u2013\u00a0and uh, what was going on there.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Oh, really?<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> And uh\u2013 well, you know, some of the\u2013 some parents had said that children were being held against their wi\u2013 I don\u2019t know what the deal was, but what I<\/em>\u2013 what I<\/em> had proposed at that time \u2013 and I\u2013 I don\u2019t know\u2013 I don\u2019t think it was you that I talked to, but I\u2019m not sure at this point, there\u2019ve\u2013 there\u2019ve been quite a few people \u2013 I said, you know, uh, if there\u2019s ever a chance to go down and talk<\/em> to Jim and look over the facilities and just do a\u2013 do a story on\u2013 on what\u2019s there and what\u2019s going on, either to\u2013 you know, just for the light of day to see into there, which we\u2019ve never\u2013 we\u2019ve never been able\u2013 I guess new\u2013\u00a0a newspaper has. Uh, hasn\u2019t there been a newspaper down?<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Uh, they have had some uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> In the past, yeah\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> \u2013press, yeah, from that uh, area of the world, I think. (stumbles over words) They have uh, visitors come through all the time, uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Right, right.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Just uh, just a couple of weeks ago, the head of the Guyana Livestock Corporation, Dr. [Peter] Fernandes came through, and uh, he is a member of one of the wealthiest business families in the country and has traveled all over, and he stayed on the project a long time and looked into every phase, talked to people at random. He was very, very impressed. He said he\u2019d been to other societies who had uh, uh, called themselves egalitarian, but this was the purest society he has even seen. There was no<\/em> elitism at all, uh, Jim of course takes no<\/em> privileges over any of the people there, and he was very, very touched by the purity<\/em> of the so\u2013 society, people from all uh, racial and religious backgrounds, and working together, uh, it wa\u2013 just overwhelmed him.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s great.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> We have a lot of people come through, uh, people from the State Department here have come through, people from\u2013 officials from Guyana sort of show it off all<\/em> the time, because it is such a model community.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Well, I had talked at one time, quite some time ago, with Charles Garry, uh, who was handling some of the legal aspects, and he had been there, and he seemed to be very high on what he\u2019d seen. See, I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t even know if a trip there is necessary. All I know is uh, uh, Reverend Jim Jones uh, started out way up in the Northern California area, and I had made my first contacts then, when I was trying to get a kidney for a little boy, and he donated uh\u2013\u00a0or through the\u2013 through the uh, the church<\/em>, donated some uh\u2013 some money<\/em>, and we were able to get a kidney transplant and save this little boy\u2019s life, and from that point on, we just had a very good working relationship, and uh, I was into something a little bit different in\u2013 in electronic journalism, and that was uh\u2013 well, uh, not becoming an advocate, but uh\u2013 but at least<\/em> trying to\u2013 to find some ways for people to help themselves better than they were being helped by the bureaucracy and that sort of thing. And uh, the last<\/em> time I talked with him, we had\u2013\u00a0we had uh, a family of five sleeping in a\u2013 oh, I don\u2019t know, parking uh, rest area up alongside the road, and she had to go back for cancer treatment in the East, and they had no money left for a place to stay, and he had called me uh, late one night and uh, sounded very tired, and said, look, we have homes, and he gave me an emergency number, and he said, I\u2019m sure one of our church members can put them up. And uh, unfortunately<\/em>, the church member was black and the people were white, and there was a\u2013 a problem, you know, it was one of those stupid things you run into.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Oh, dear.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> But anyway, uh, that was the last contact. Then all of a sudden, all of this uh\u2013 the New West<\/em> magazine, the breaking and entering and all of that stuff started coming out and uh, I just kinda rode with it to find out\u2013 you know, I really didn\u2019t know what was going on. I to this point<\/em> don\u2019t know. Is the church still functioning fine and everything here?<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> The church is still functioning here, yes. Our programs are going on. Naturally, because of the uh, uh, unobjective media coverage, we are playing very low key<\/em> at this point in time. We have always<\/em> stood for the uh, freedom of the press. In fact, you know what we did for the Fresno Four<\/em>, because we felt so strongly<\/em> about it. And then to see the press, uh, for whatever reasons \u2013 and\u2013\u00a0and we are getting to the basis, we think, of some of the reasons behind this smear campaign \u2013 whatever the reasons, we were shocked<\/em> to see this kind of uh, one-sided, very biased<\/em> distorted coverage of such a large humanitarian work, as we\u2019ve built up over the years, that a few people who were dissenters and liars, and if anyone looked into their background could see their vantage points that they\u2019re speaking from, but no one seems to uh, be taking the time to uh, check into the sources of their so-called information<\/em>. So uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Umm-hmm. Well, we<\/em> haven\u2019t uh\u2013 we haven\u2019t denigrated the Temple at all, because we have been kind of on the cusp. We\u2019ve had uh\u2013 I\u2013 you know, I\u2013\u00a0it\u2013\u00a0it may be unfortunate, this time and place, that uh\u2013 that the Temple all of a sudden gettin\u2019\u2013 gets mixed up uh, ideologically oh\u2013 in people\u2019s minds with uh, the Reverend [Sun Myung] Moon group and uh, the Synanon problems that may be coming around and some of those<\/em> things and\u2013 you know, it\u2019s interesting that uh\u2013 that there\u2013 it\u2019s almost a\u2013 a mania<\/em> that happens, and a lot of people get thrown into categories that uh, they don\u2019t deserve to be into, but all of a sudden, it happens. And I<\/em> kind of\u2013 I kind of felt, when this was coming down, that that\u2019s\u2013 that seemed<\/em> to be what was happening, uh\u2013 But I<\/em> didn\u2019t know where New West<\/em> was getting their informa\u2013 I think it was New West<\/em> that printed the first article, I\u2019m not sure. I don\u2019t know\u2013 I<\/em> didn\u2019t know where they were getting their information, it sounded a little scurrilous to me, but I\u2013 I sat back and waited to see what happened, and then all of a sudden, something else came out, and then, I forget what that was. It\u2019s been mostly newspaper, it uh\u2013 that from what I can see. A newspaper or magazine. And uh\u2013 and then uh, all of a sudden, Jim left<\/em>. And uh, I\u2013 And so I had no way of making contact with him on that, although I did talk with a couple of members of the Temple uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> \u2018Course, you know, Jim was gone before this even came out.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Yeah, or it came out (unintelligible under Bradshaw)<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> He had been going back and forth uh, to coordinate the project for some time, and he was gone when the first alleged break-in, which was vindicated<\/em>, uh, and\u2013 and anything\u2013 you know, the implication that we were involved in it at all<\/em> was uh, vindicated in the later pages of the papers. Certainly not fer\u2013 front page like the accusation<\/em> was. This<\/em> is the kind of coverage we\u2019ve been getting. The accusations smear all over the front page, and then when the\u2013 there is uh, any type of uh, even minimal<\/em> vindication or absolute<\/em> vindication, it is on the back<\/em> pages. So, uh, we have shied away from the press, we\u2019ve been advised<\/em> by people to shy away from the press because of the uh, uh, unobjectivity. But we\u2019re very proud of our project there, our programs are going on as usual here, but uh, Jim has uh, spoken of your sensitivity over the years, and I\u2019ve been a member of the church for eight years now, and I can remember repeatedly<\/em> hearing him speak of you with fondness and\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s great.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> \u2013 he knows that\u2013 that uh, whatever involvement your station, you know, has\u2013 has covered of us, he\u2013 he is in full contact with the coverage, uh, down there. He knows what\u2019s going on uh, in the aspect of the community here, and he knows uh, how your station has presented us, and, \u2018course he knows your\u2013\u00a0your<\/em> personal integrity, so he did want to let you know that we are seriously considering this, and\u2013 but we would need to know uh, whether it would be you or who<\/em> it would be or uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Well, if there was a\u2013 if there was a possibility now, uh, that I\u2013 you know that\u2013 that something like that could be done, what would have to be done with the\u2013 first of all, I\u2019d have to have\u2013\u00a0I\u2013 I would try to do it myself. Uh, I\u2019ve\u2013 I went to Guatemala and helped rebuild a city down there eleven years ago or so, I\u2013 I\u2013 I would want to have personal involvement in it, and number two, I\u2019d have to take a cameraman and uh\u2013 who would be, you know, the eyes of\u2013 of\u2013 the television eyes at least. Uh, I would\u2013 I would want to talk with Jim, uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Sure.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> I wouldn\u2019t necessarily want to get into the problems that are involved, but I think that there should be some statements from him about uh, how he<\/em> feels about it, you know, I\u2013 From the standpoint of a\u2013 of a straight news story, uh, it\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013 you know, it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s kind of immense proportions because this tremendously popular guy all of a sudden leaves the area and then can\u2019t come back because of\u2013 of a child custody<\/em> fight or something like that. So I think there\u2019d have to be some comments made about that in some way.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Now, would you be willing to uh, print the aspects around\u2013 of Tim Stoen?<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Who\u2019s Tim Stoen, I\u2013 (voice fades)<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Tim Stoen is the one that\u2019s purporting that he is the\u2013 the uh\u2013 child\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> The\u2013\u00a0Oh, the father<\/em> who\u2013 oh\u2013 (unintelligible under Bradshaw)<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> The child\u2019s father, right.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Yeah. Right. Well, in\u2013 in what way would I pri\u2013 I don\u2019t understand that.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Well, he uh\u2013 there\u2019s a lot of aspects in which he is involved in the\u2013 the total uh, campaign against us.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Oh, I see, I see.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> And this\u2013 this is extremely important in presenting the facts<\/em>, and we do have facts<\/em> to (unintelligible under man)<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Oh, I certainly want to present the facts, that\u2019s for sure. That\u2019s the only way I\u2019d want to do<\/em> it. Otherwise it\u2013 you know, it uh\u2013 there\u2019re so many other things happening that I\u2013 I wouldn\u2019t\u2013 what I don\u2019t want to do is\u2013 is promise you that I would go down and do a uh, oh, I don\u2019t know, a\u2013 a travelogue<\/em>, you know, uh, because I don\u2019t think that would help any of us, and uh, it certainly wouldn\u2019t help my integrity<\/em>. What I\u2019d want<\/em> to do is go down and\u2013 and just let the camera shoot\u2013 shoot the thing and\u2013 and uh, I have no percur\u2013 preconceived ideas other than I like Jim very much, you know, so, I don\u2019t\u2013\u00a0There\u2019s nothing else that\u2019s ever clouded my thought on that. I don\u2019t know anything that he\u2019s done wrong<\/em> personally, because I have\u2013 I\u2013 All I know is I\u2013 I started getting checks and tremendous support from Peoples Temple, way back when they were up in Redwood Valley, and uh, long before they ever came to San Francisco, I was very acquainted, and\u2013 and received a lot of mail and a lot of support for the Reverend Jim Jones who was doing these tremendous things, and I\u2013 and I\u2013 I accepted him on\u2013 on that face value, not on anything else. Uh, I haven\u2019t\u2013 I haven\u2019t gotten involved in any of the political shenanigans or any of that stuff. So I think that uh, that would be the way we\u2019d\u2013 you know, I\u2019d<\/em> want to approach it.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Well, he has done nothing wrong on any level, and we\u2019ve never asked for any uh, special favors from anybody that we have helped. We don\u2019t work that way. All we have asked<\/em> for at all is\u2013 is minimal<\/em> objectivity, and we have not even gotten that. So, uh, certainly if the truth<\/em> were aired, it would be uh, all we would want.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Well, I would certainly\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> We\u2013 we would not want any sugarcoating. That would not\u2013 that\u2019s certainly is not uh, how we work. The truth<\/em> is with Jim Jones in this situation, and his whole life<\/em> has been committed to helping others in a very selfless way. Uh, it\u2019s just a terrible biased uh, degradation of the\u2013 the high ideals that uh, he and the church have stood for, uh, being perpetrated by a few people who obviously<\/em> have their own uh, axes to grind.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Yeah, what\u2019s\u2013 what\u2019s\u2013 Do you have any idea why<\/em> that would be done? I think\u2013 you know, \u2018cause that\u2019s what I\u2019ve never been able to put my finger<\/em> on. Is it just a good story, or\u2013 or what is the\u2013 what\u2019s\u2013 what\u2019s the reason that people are doing<\/em> that? What is the reason for the attack?<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Well, it seems to be on many different levels. You\u00ad\u2013 you know that he is uh, a great humanitarian leader. He has affected tens of thousands of people across the country, especially in his uh\u2013 his uh, different meeting schedules all over the nation. Uh\u2013 It\u2019s hard to say. We are uncovering uh, different aspects that go uh\u2013 As you know, our Social Security\u2013 The SSA checks were held up for a while. Uh\u2013 We don\u2019t know. We\u2019re not accusing government agencies. We are\u2013 What\u2013\u00a0It\u2013\u00a0There are definite indications that there are people within<\/em> various government agencies who would seek to discredit Jim. Uh, we\u2019re not at all thinking that it\u2019s on the\u2013 the scale of\u2013 of the government agency itself. We feel they are being used, uh, they are being manipulated by uh, some very radical elements that uh, have objected to our pacifistic stands for a long time. So uh\u2013 Actually, there\u2019re a lot of aspects to the total situation, uh, but Jim\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019d love to sit down and talk with him about it. (unintelligible under Bradshaw)<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Um-hmm. Would\u2013 Now how uh\u2013 I don\u2019t know how long <\/em>this type of thing\u2013 how long do you think (unintelligible word under newsman)\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t know. When we went to Guatemala, they\u2013 the uh, government there would only allow us in, uh, I don\u2019t know what it was, 48 hours, I think, or something like that. I forget what it was. It was a very minimal period of time, so we worked 39 hours straight to be able to get it, and in that way, actually, you\u2019re not getting a good insight. What you\u2019re doing is you\u2019re just uh, hitting\u2013 But we were able to dig all kinds of things and do some things that even the networks who spent three months down there didn\u2019t\u2013 you know, didn\u2019t get, and uh\u2013 by \u201cdidn\u2019t get,\u201d I mean, the insights into the story. We had people come forward because we were able to get out into the\u2013\u00a0and talk with the people and\u2013 and just mingle, you know, and do things like that, so that then we\u2013 That\u2019s how I found the uh\u2013 the man with his\u2013\u00a0who\u2019d lost his children, had his back broken and everything, and was\u2013 was able to do a story on him and helped rebuild his little city up in the mountains, where the\u2013 the networks stayed in\u2013 you know, they didn\u2019t stay right around in Guatemala City, something like that. But I<\/em> don\u2019t know. Uh, I think\u2013 I\u2019d say uh, uh, you know, just uh\u2013 just to be able to shoot and to film probably, gee, I don\u2019t know, you\u2019re talking in terms of a couple of\u2013\u00a0two or three days \u2013 I don\u2019t know \u2013 or maybe even lon\u2013\u00a0longer<\/em>. You know, I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m trying to think of a minimum<\/em> amount of time, but I\u2013 I just couldn\u2019t put it down. How big is it? How\u2013 I mean, how much is it\u2013\u00a0is there to see?<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Well, there\u2019re over a\u2013 a thousand people who are living on the project now.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Wow.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Uh, the\u2013 the only problem is that it does cut down on the production, and actually, the production is\u2013 is uh, very intense right now, and we have a lot of crops that uh, were not grown in the tropics until our experimentation, until our\u2013 uh, we were able to work with the people in the area and come up with pretty innovative ways of making them work<\/em>. So it is<\/em> a very uh, massive, intense production schedule. That\u2019s why we\u2019re\u2013 we were concerned somewhat about the time factor. Is there some way we can get some uh, uh\u2013 something in writing of your\u2013 your uh\u2013 how long you think you would take or uh, just some of the sort of basic ground rules, then I could forward it over to Jim.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Well\u2013 Sure. One of the things uh\u2013 you know what, uh\u2013 nu\u2013 number one, right off the\u2013\u00a0right off of my head, I\u2013 I say we\u2013 we would like to show that the o\u2013 the overall project<\/em>. And now, I don\u2019t know what that takes to shoot that. I don\u2019t know how many acres<\/em> you have, even. But the\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Well, I think there\u2019s over 2000 cultivated acres.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Two thousand. See, that\u2019s a\u2013 that\u2019s a l\u2013 But you could do that with wide shots and\u2013 I mean, I\u2019d<\/em> have to leave that up to my cameraman, but I think (unintelligible under Bradshaw)\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Yeah, well, there are\u2013 We have aspects\u2013 There\u2019re sawmill, piggery, cassava mill, uh, cattle barn uh, (pause) carpenter shop, uh, school buildings, cafeterias, pavilions, you know\u2013 (short laugh) It\u2019s a whole city.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019d like to shoot a little bit of all<\/em> of that, do you see. That\u2019s\u2013 And I wouldn\u2019t take a lot with any<\/em> of it, really, but wh\u2013 what I\u2019d like to do is record it so I can talk<\/em> about it at least. And what there is there<\/em>, has that ever been done before? I don\u2019t think anybody\u2019s ever shown pictures of all of that.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Well, we have uh, slides and things in (unintelligible word under newsman reply), but we haven\u2019t had the uh, know how. You\u2013 you know Mike Prokes, don\u2019t you?<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Yeah. And uh, I think he\u2019d be interested in\u2013 in uh, getting together with what\u2013\u00a0you know, whatever script is going to be followed in terms of sequence of events, things like that. So\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Well, we could\u2013\u00a0we could probably\u2013\u00a0If we, you know\u2013 Now that I have some idea here\u2013 2000 cultivated acres, so it\u2019s much bigger than that, if\u2013 if you have that much under cultivation. Uh, I mean, you\u2013 the land mass, just of the\u2013 of the\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s really what\u2019s carved out of the jungle. The rest is uh, beautiful jungle (laughs).<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Oh, I see, okay, so it\u2019s right up to the jungle<\/em> then, for the most part.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Right. Okay. And you\u2019ve got a thousand people<\/em>. Now is there any uh, you know\u2013 What\u2013 what are the aspects of our shooting the people<\/em>, showing the people working, doing (unintelligible under Bradshaw)\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Oh, it\u2013\u00a0no problem, no problem with that.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> And now, is there any problem with talking<\/em> with some of them (unintelligible word under Bradshaw)\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> \u2013just uh, at random, or something like\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> No problem with that, no.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Okay. Well, uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> We just really need to know what\u2013 what your expectations of\u2013 of uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Time\u2013 uh, the time (unintelligible word under Bradshaw)<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Yeah, the time and uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> And I\u2019d\u2013 and like, I\u2019d<\/em> like to, you know, in a situation like that, I\u2019d li\u2013 I\u2019d\u2013\u00a0I\u2019d have<\/em> to talk with Jim. And uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Oh, certainly, certainly. That would\u2013 He would\u2013\u00a0He would be welcoming that.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Right. And uh, hear his side and uh, get it\u2013 get it out and\u2013 and on the table.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> \u2018Cause ob\u2013 obviously, you can see his side has not been presented in\u2013 in any<\/em> of these media blitz for what, eight months now?<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Well, he\u2013\u00a0There\u2019s never been any answers<\/em>, I\u2013 You know, I know, because he\u2019s always been (unintelligible word under Bradshaw)\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Because answers would dignify questions that are absurd.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Right, right.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> (Laughs) I mean, that\u2019s the way we\u2019ve looked at it. These things are absurd<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Right. Well, what I<\/em> would\u2013\u00a0what I would uh, do, just off the top of my head and the questions\u2013 In fact, I was\u2013 I thought of once trying to get a phone call down and just, you know, uh, uh\u2013 But then it came out, because I had a member of the church uh, an official member, that wasn\u2019t uh, a denigrating phone call, call and say that it was\u2013 it was about the little boy<\/em>, and uh, there were a lot of things that uh\u2013 that could not come out at that point, but that there was uh\u2013 there was a child involved and there was a custody case and that\u2013 and that Jim felt he had to go<\/em> there and stay there until such time as the\u2013 as all of these legal<\/em> ramifications had been cleared away, because he\u2013 uh, and\u2013 and\u2013 and that was kind of mind-boggling to me<\/em>, \u2018cause I hadn\u2019t\u2013\u00a0I<\/em> didn\u2019t know anything about the little boy or any of that, so I said okay, well, uh, I\u2019d sure like to talk<\/em> with him, you know, and find out what it\u2019s all about, because as long as he\u2019s there, then uh, the charges go unanswered, whatever the charges are, you know. It\u2019s not like him being here and being able to defend himself. Even though uh, members of the\u2013 of the uh, Temple have tried and uh\u2013 But anyway, it would be\u2013 it would be a way of him just rapping. We\u2019d just sit and talk<\/em> about it, and uh\u2013 and he could say whatever it is that uh, he feels he has to say. The other<\/em> thing would be to show the project, show the people, uh, show what\u2019s going on and uh, in general, do a\u2013\u00a0do a, you know, report that way. Now as far as it\u2013 I<\/em> can\u2013 I\u2019ll<\/em> try and lay something out. Where can I send it? What would be a good\u2013 or to y\u2013\u00a0uh, would I send it to you?<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Uh, yeah, you can send it to uh, uh, the P.O. box, or 1859 Geary.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> 1859 Geary would be better, yeah, I\u2019ll do that.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Okay. Good, and I\u2019ll send it in\u2013 in care of you, and I\u2019ll just try to scratch something out about\u2013 about what it is that uh, I would like to accomplish down there, if I (unintelligible under Bradshaw).<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Okay, and uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> I\u2019d like to show the ag project and show the people working and show uh\u2013 show Jim down there working and uh\u2013 Is there any problem with showing the little boy?<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> No, none at all. None at\u2013 In\u2013 In fact, when you see him, you\u2019ll\u00ad\u2013 you\u2019ll know he is the spitting image of Jim, uh, and there uh\u2013 You\u2019ll be able to talk to the child yourself.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Can we go<\/em> back uh\u2013 Just fill me in again, because I\u2019ve tried to stay away it as much as possible. From what I understand now, the pe\u2013 the people supposedly now could not have children, and uh\u2013 then Jim was asked, as the leader of the Temple, to uh\u2013 to uh, father the child. Is that uh\u00ad\u2013 is that how the story goes?<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> That, uh\u2013 that\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Is that basically it, or\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Yes, that uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> And then\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> I mean it\u2019s a little more complicated than that, but that is basically it, they\u2013 It was Tim Stoen\u2019s idea that uh, Jim become involved with Grace [Stoen]. Uh, there are various reasons uh, behind that for the uh, good of\u2013 of uh\u2013 She<\/em> had threatened to do just what she\u2019s doing now, to tell lies and uh, hurt the thousands of people that she\u2019s trying to hurt now, and uh, it\u2019s\u2013 (Pause) It\u2019s a very complicated background.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> \u2018Course, it\u2019s tough for her too<\/em>, if it\u2019s her child, it\u2013 That becomes a tough situation, too.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Not really, when you hear the facts. She has abandoned the child, she ran off with another man [Walter \u201cSmitty\u201d Jones], and left the child with<\/em> Jim. The child has lived<\/em> with Jim since he was very young, he\u2019s been taken into Jim\u2019s family. Uh, Mrs. [Marceline] Jones in fact is the one that\u2013 that toilet trained John, because his own so-called mother couldn\u2019t be bothered, she was too busy with other men. Uh\u2013 I really<\/em> think when uh, you hear\u2013 Uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Mmm, I\u2013 Yeah, yeah. I\u2013 You know, I just\u2013 I just wonder why it\u2013 from this standpoint, why Jim got involved. I mean, why would that\u2013 that\u2013 Well, see, these are the things I don\u2019t know. Why he would do<\/em> that. Uh, but that has to come from him<\/em>. Uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Yes, he\u2013 he uh\u2013 The members of the congregation are aware of the situation. They have<\/em> been aware of it. They\u2019re aware of\u2013 of Jim\u2019s uh, high character ands that he does things to help people. He helps people\u2013 Well, you know, he goes the\u2013 the full limit of anything he can do to help people. And in this situation, it was presented as a\u2013 a\u2013\u00a0a\u2013 a desperate situation from\u2013 from uh, Tim Stoen, uh, for his reasons, and uh\u2013 (Pause)<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Okay, but you could certainly understand how someone with that information could uh\u2013 could write an article that would be disfavorable to Jim. I mean uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Only if they did not present his\u2013 his side<\/em> of it.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Right, but what\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> (unintelligible word under newsman) \u2013but once you heard the facts, it\u2013 it would be put in perspective.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Okay, I understand that. But all I\u2019m saying is, if\u2013 here\u2019s Jim Jones, a married man and leader of a\u2013 of a Tem\u2013 you know, this Peoples Temple. And someone comes to him and says \u2013 and this<\/em> is how they\u2019ve used<\/em> it \u2013 \u201cYou go to bed with my wife, you get involved in\u2013 in\u2013 in sexual relations with my wife, and sire a child<\/em>.\u201d Now in the eyes of the law, that\u2019s adultery<\/em>. (Pause) Yeah, now, what I\u2019m saying is, (laughs) I\u2019m just\u2013 that\u2019s what\u2019s boggled my mind<\/em> for so long, uh, uh, where\u2019d\u2013 how did the agreement come about? Now it must\u2019ve been on a much higher plane than I<\/em> understand. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Well, it\u2013\u00a0it is\u2013 It\u2019s difficult to\u2013 perspective-wise, it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s very difficult to uh\u2013 (Pause) to relate to, I suppose, unless you\u2019re a leader of thousands of people who look up to you and who you know will be hurt, unless you make this sacrifice.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Aha. Okay, well\u2013 but you, as\u2013 as Sandy Bradshaw, have been able to come to grips with it as a member and don\u2019t have any problem<\/em> with\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Oh, certainly<\/em>, because I<\/em> have seen uh, Jim\u2019s character over the years. Uh\u2013 I mean, I have seen him\u2013 In fact, the thing that drew me to the church was uh, the fact that this man stayed day and night counseling with people, and I thought what\u2013 what more than a person give than their personal sleep<\/em> time. I mean, that\u2019s in my\u2013 that was my selfish uh, ob\u2013 observation when I first came to church<\/em>, is that this man goes\u2013\u00a0gives his all for people.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> I know the last time I talked with him, he sounded like he was about ready to colla [collapse]\u2013 His voice was so raspy that he\u2019d been talking for a long time, and it was late at night too when he called, so\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Well, it\u2013 all that is true, and\u2013 and Jim\u2019s character is so obvious to the people that know him. Even people who have minimal contact with him, that obviously you know he\u2019s not going to go jump in bed with somebody for his own uh\u2013 you know, for his own pleasure. He\u2019s been happily married man for 28 years (unintelligible word under newsman) beautiful wife\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> And Mrs. Jones accepted it too<\/em>, that was\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Oh yes, it\u2013 it\u2013 She knew about it from the beginning. She understands uh\u2013 They\u2019re very selfless people in terms of uh, helping people. They\u2019re devoted<\/em> to helping the\u2013 the oppressed and poor and the less fortunate. So obviously the situation looks like something would resolve it to save thousands of people from getting hurt, innocent people from getting hurt uh, by lies, then uh\u2013 it has to be put in that perspective, and (unintelligible under newsman)<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Well, I\u2013 That\u2019s what I\u2019d want Jim to do, but what I\u2019m saying is, I would have to ask him that question, I think.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Certainly<\/em>. There\u2019s no question that you could not ask.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Yeah. Okay.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Uh, he\u2019s always been very direct uh, with everyone he\u2019s dealt with. And uh, I think he believes that you uh, would be sensitive enough to present his honesty uh, in an objective way. And as I say, all it takes is objectivity of the true facts to vindicate Jim Jones in the media.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Well, what I\u2019m willing to do at\u2013 you know, I\u2019m willing to go to\u2013 to the station and\u2013 and uh, fight with them and say, look , I want to do this and I want you to give me a half hour and I want to do a half-hour interview like\u2013 like, you know, we\u2019ve done with other people<\/em> and\u2013 and allow Jim Jones to tell his<\/em> side of the story. And uh, the\u2013 that\u2019s one<\/em> of the things we can do, a half-hour interview with uh\u2013 with Jim Jones within our news<\/em> block which is the\u2013 has the highest\u2013 you know, well, you probably know, but the highest rating in the\u2013 in the area, and uh, we\u2013 we played off to a million people every night, and it would be, you know, something with a\u2013 with enough advance publicity and that sort of thing. But at the same<\/em> time, I\u2019d like<\/em> to show the agricultural thing, I\u2019d like<\/em> to maybe try to do a\u2013 a five-part documentary<\/em>, culminating on\u2013 say on a Friday evening with the interview with Jim<\/em>. Something to that effect. I\u2019m just speaking off the top of my head (unintelligible under Bradshaw)\u2013<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Okay, if you can just\u2013 Okay, yeah. If you can just, uh, think it out and jot down some of the\u2013 the uh, basic ground rules that you would uh, go by and\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Good. Okay.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> \u2013and let us know, then, uh\u2013 It will take a while, \u2018cause of the communications lag over there.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Oh, sure.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 Also, I don\u2019t know what financially could be worked out. I\u2013 I\u2019m not\u2013<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m\u2013 I don\u2019t worry about that.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> I\u2019m not aware of any (laughs) of that area.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Yeah, I don\u2019t worry about that. If\u2013 if it happened, uh, we\u2019ll\u2013 we\u2019ll see what happens what that\u2013 when it comes to that.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Okay. Well, look. Let me draw something up, and I\u2019ll shoot it over to you.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Okay. Thanks an awful lot.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Okay. Thank you, Sandy.<\/p>\n

Bradshaw:<\/strong> Goodbye.<\/p>\n

Newsman:<\/strong> Bye-bye.<\/p>\n

(End of tape)<\/strong><\/p>\n

Tape originally posted January 2013<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

This tape was transcribed by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3. (Editor\u2019s note: This transcript does not include all the verbal acknowledgements during the phone conversation when […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":603,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-27610","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27610","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=27610"}],"version-history":[{"count":7,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27610\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":60485,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27610\/revisions\/60485"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=27610"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}