{"id":27621,"date":"2013-06-16T00:21:22","date_gmt":"2013-06-16T00:21:22","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/alternativejonestown.com\/?page_id=27621"},"modified":"2014-04-01T23:11:16","modified_gmt":"2014-04-01T23:11:16","slug":"q940","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=27621","title":{"rendered":"Q940 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. <\/strong><\/i>If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. <\/strong><\/i>Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here.<\/a>
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013against uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Who is it? (Pause) What\u2019s this (unintelligible word)? Who raised their hand?<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Michaeleen Brady? Uh, I hope I can\u2013 What is it?<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Every person that\u2019s gotten up has been an anarchist thus far. I would like to\u2019ve seen a\u2013 a true socialist get up. People who li\u2013 What is it?<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Man 1:<\/strong> Well, come up front.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019re less<\/em> of one. That\u2019s why I like to hear you. I don\u2019t\u2013 (stumbles over words) What is it, sister?<\/p>\n

Young girl 1:<\/strong> Father, I felt it was too easy. A shooting is an instant death. That\u2019s what I felt.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What is it? Who is this saying this?<\/p>\n

Young girl 1: <\/strong>Me, Father.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All right. All right. Tha\u2013\u00a0That\u2013 That kind of an\u2013 All right. But that kind of ju\u2013 uh, reasoning I\u2019m not ag\u2013\u00a0I\u2019m not opposed to it. It doesn\u2019t have to be. True. It doesn\u2019t have to be. But she voted against it, because she thought it was an instant death<\/em>. So I don\u2019t need any explanation from her. Thank you. Yes, Ann (unintelligible word) senior, what?<\/p>\n

Voice:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019ve grown considerably, dear. Thank you.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

(Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Woman 1:<\/strong> You wouldn\u2019t come back. I was hoping\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman 2:<\/strong> (away from mike, unintelligible beginning under Woman 1) didn\u2019t come back.<\/p>\n

Man 2: <\/strong>From the first month you\u2019ve been here, you haven\u2019t caused nothing but trouble. I mean from the first month on.<\/p>\n

Woman 2:<\/strong> (upset tone) Father, (unintelligible word) you even came over here, \u2018cause we<\/em> didn\u2019t want you to come here. We wanted you in prison<\/em>. Or stay with your fucking relatives anyway. You went out there (unintelligible word), we didn\u2019t tell you to go with them. Father give you opportunity, you had a chance to go with them or come here. Then look at the fuck you do when you come here. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Woman 3:<\/strong> (in crowd, unintelligible) \u2013all kinda hell in the States, trying to get here. You gave them all kinda hell. (unintelligible word), and you come over here with the same mother-fuckin\u2019 shit<\/em>. Shootin\u2019 you in the head\u2019s too good for you. Shoot, you need to suffer<\/em>, like Father suffer. Yeah, when I asked Kim if\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Woman 3:<\/strong> \u2013said he really liked, and I said, Kimmie, he liked them too long. I say, well, why is he? He said, well, I know why he is. I said, well, why is he? He say, I know why (unintelligible word) liked \u2018em. I think shootin\u2019 is too easy for you, you need to be punished, and you don\u2019t know what punish is like, brother. You never had\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What is it, (unintelligible name)?<\/p>\n

Voice:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

(Microphone turned on, feedback)<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013(unintelligible \u00a0beginning) for anything, uh, any defense, I\u2013 Unless you\u2019ve got some other kind of recommended, uh, discipline. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He said dying\u2019s too easy. We have that, we have that. Any other dissent based on some other concept, I\u2019ll\u2013 I want to listen to all input.<\/p>\n

Girl 2:<\/strong> Yeah, Father, what I felt, uh, he should c\u2013 he sh\u2013\u00a0he should suffer so much pain, he have to crawl on his belly for weeks before\u2013 and he\u2019d have to look at the people while he was suffering. And uh, the fact that shooting, uh, like everybody else say, was too fast, I thought he should suffer for weeks and weeks and crawl on his belly and looking at the people every time he looks up, he\u2019d have to see the people. He\u2019d had to suffer (unintelligible word)\u2013 and then be shot<\/em> on top of it.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> One person (overwhelms mike, unintelligible) we need the\u2013 the handcuffs.<\/p>\n

(Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Girl 3:<\/strong> I think uh, the uh\u2013 the pain that Father was, you know, in this, you know, this afternoon, uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Calls from crowd. Feedback<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) I didn\u2019t hear what you said.<\/p>\n

Girl 3:<\/strong> Said I could understand\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What\u2019s she saying, I did not copy what she said.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> She could understand my pain? Never.<\/p>\n

Girl 3:<\/strong> You were going through it\u2013<\/p>\n

Tape break-up<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Peace. It\u2019s just\u2013 I\u2019m disagreeing with that point<\/em>, I\u2019m not uh, uh, silencing her, \u00a0I just disagree with that point, that is really ridiculous and ludicrous to say that you could understand my pain, when I have ceased to exist as a person and am willing to take the pain of all<\/em> of you on for so many years. No way you could understand<\/em> my pain. Now go on to the next point, and we\u2019ll see if I can accept that.<\/p>\n

Girl 3:<\/strong> Uh, and uh, a\u2013 I can empathize with the way uh, Edie [Kutulas] felt, but I still<\/em> feel that they should be punished for what they\u2019ve done and\u2013 and uh, I didn\u2019t feel that they should be shot.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Because you are\u2013\u00a0Well, what reason\u2013 What reason do you think that they should be punished? They could have destroyed our movement. If the conspirators how\u2013 found us out\u2013 If the conspirators trying to kidnap had been\u2013\u00a0come after us while these motherfuckers were out running loose, some of our children coulda been kidnapped today by the same (unintelligible word) who are out there trying to get at us. And you think that\u2019s all we should recognize? Or is it in you, dear, that you\u2019re hoping that you\u2019ll be able to protect your own right to be anarchistic when you choose to be? That\u2019s so often what I hear when people get on the floor. I don\u2019t hear from them, uh, bashing out of compassion, I hear from a person who is used to trying to do doing their own thing when they want to in some ways \u2013 not maybe always<\/em>, but in some ways \u2013 and they uh, get up here and identify with this, not knowing that this \u2013 if it had been it\u2013 on Sunday or Saturday when this shit broke loose, behind her when the baby was get\u2013\u00a0being delivered \u2013 if that<\/em> had broke loose then, then we\u2019da had to go after them, we coulda le\u2013 uh, some of our babies coulda been kidnapped.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Or killed. That\u2019s<\/em> the difference. If it\u2019da happened any other day at the wrong time, that did\u2013 what they did would be far more terrible than you can know, \u2018cause they put our whole<\/em> personnel out on the fields, in the woods, in the tracks, to the roads, they ou\u2013 they caused us to have to put personnel all over<\/em> this entire Northwest District. They had every vehicle tied up. If one of my people had had a heart attack today, I couldn\u2019t\u2013 and the doctor had to have the emergency equipment that we have not yet gotten through, there woulda been no way they got through here. For all<\/em> these hours, you<\/em> have been responsible for anyone I\u2019ve had to meditate\u2013 just hoping that we wouldn\u2019t have any emergency, any hemorrhaging, any kind of emergency, \u2018cause you tied up every<\/em> means we had of getting people out. And you knew<\/em> that. You knew down deep that there\u2019d be a lot<\/em> of concern\u2013 uh, \u2018course, you couldn\u2019t relate to concern, \u2018cause you don\u2019t have concern, but you knew<\/em> organizational thinking, you knew that I would be forced<\/em> to be concerned about you, because I have loved ones here. And you have a loved one back there, even though she did want to wash her hands of (unintelligible word), we did not know what her reaction would be. (Pause) So you knew organizationally<\/em>, we would have to tie up everything we could to find you two. You<\/em> knew that. You couldn\u2019t help but be intelligent enough to know that. (Pause) So what do you\u2013 what kind of punishment would you recommend<\/em> for these, Sister Tucker. (off mike) No, I didn\u2019t ask you.<\/p>\n

Alleane Tucker:<\/strong> Uh, if I may say, I think they was\u2013 you know, wasn\u2019t watched the\u2013 you know, securely enough, you know, the reason they got away\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, why didn\u2019t you watch them?<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> \u2013if I may say that.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That\u2019s good enough. The brothers already mentioned that they weren\u2019t watched secure enough. He trusted him. A black brother trusted a white brother, and the white brother spit on him.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What\u2019s this? (Pause) What\u2019s this?<\/p>\n

Male 3:<\/strong> What\u2019s that, Carl?<\/p>\n

Male 4:<\/strong> He\u2019s going to sleep.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, he better stay awake. Yes, yes yes yes. What a\u2013 What form of punishment would you suggest, Sister Tucker? What form of punishment? What form of punishment would you suggest?<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think of any uh, that would be sufficient, under circumstances.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, then, let\u2019s think about it, (unintelligible word) \u2018cause if\u00ad\u2013 if you were going to make a recommendation as a dissent in a democracy, you ought to offer us some solution. You are not willing to pa\u2013 impart some solution, then it\u2019s obviously would be an anarchistic approach. What form of punishment do you suggest? You have to make some kind of recommendation to us.<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> Uh, I think uh, uh, you should cut the other one\u2019s hair off uh, uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Voices of angry disapproval from crowd<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Tsks) Take note of this conversation.<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> First, cut his hair off, and uh, I\u2013 (cough) while I was thinking, you know, when they were\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Shh. Peace. That I would like to hear it.<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> When they were\u2013 When they were, you know, I\u2013 you know, before you\u2013 before they were found this evening, I said, you know, they should be identified, and of course, what I was thinking was really hard, and so they should be uh, not allowed to have their clothing<\/em>, but I said, you know\u2013 it would be probably would be too much. Uh\u2013 you know\u2013 so that they would be identified\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) death that they coulda caused if they had uh\u2013 if anyone here had had a stroke, if that\u2019s too horrible to consider than making them naked?<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> Yeah\u2013 I know, well, that\u2019s why I was\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> So many people are so conditioned on tommyrot anarchism and fascism, it\u2019s\u2013\u00a0it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> It wouldn\u2019t\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What are you gonna do after they\u2019re naked\u2013<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> It would be uh, easily identified, you know, should they\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Easily identified. Is that all you\u2019re gonna do? All you\u2019re gonna do for these people, running out all through this uh, whole company, thousands of dollars worth, you gonna let \u2018em run naked? Then we have to look at their naked bodies then.<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> The only re\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Peace. I have a\u2013\u00a0I do not\u2013 I\u2013 I have always been a social democrat in my refinement in the superego, but intellectually, I know it will not work. I know that there\u2019s only one kinda thing that\u2019ll work, a dictatorship of the proletariat in the hands of the persons or person that is most conscionable, that has sensitivity, that has compassion and has a sense of justice, because this is the kind of shit\u2013 uh, if that\u2019s all you give this kind of infraction of our rules, to let him wander \u2013 these two \u2013 wander around here naked, you might as well just burn<\/em> this place down tomorrow.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>(Cries out) Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You might as well burn it down. If these people walk away with no more ha\u2013 happening to them than to walk naked. We have appealed to them with reason<\/em>, with reason, justice, and compassion. I put them in the hands of people that would let uh\u2013 psychologist that would let him air all<\/em> of his difficulties, and never even intrude to find out what he personally said. Last night, when she said he was somebody capitalist, I just passed on by it, \u2018cause\u2013 I mean\u2013 in front of it\u2013 in front of him, I said, well, time will teach him. I said, something will teach him. And something will. (Pause) \u2018Cause based on that\u2013 that revelation last night, that I thought you\u2019d be back here in my<\/em> hands tonight. (Pause) What\u2019re we gone do after they\u2019re naked, sister? I\u2019m interested?<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t come to any conclusions uh, you know, past this\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I said, what more punishment would you suggested after they were naked?<\/p>\n

(Pause)<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> I said I didn\u2019t uh\u2013 you know, I didn\u2019t think of any\u2013 uh, any further punishment af\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I am asking you to think of further discipline, now<\/em>. Nakedness is not sufficient.<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> Well, uh (laughs)\u2013 uh, uh, like, you\u2013 they say the cat-of-nine-tails, I think if you give \u2018em uh, uh, a genuine good stirring with that, it\u2019ll make \u2018em think.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What is a good spurring, sister?<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> Stirring, I said. Stir\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> How many?<\/p>\n

Male 3:<\/strong> How many?<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> Uh, forty.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All right, I\u2019ve gotta come in a 40. Uh\u2013 Forty\u2019d put them to their knees. Forty cat-of-nine-tails, they\u2013 they\u2019ll be\u2013 they\u2019re carried\u2013 be carried out faint. (Pause) In a faint, they\u2019ll be\u2013 they\u2019ll be (stumbles over words) they\u2019ll go unconscious with uh, forty whips of the cat-of-nine-tails.<\/p>\n

Male 5:<\/strong> This is what was in the bag. It wasn\u2019t (unintelligible word) brother. They found these in the bag.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Rubbers.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What little protection we have to keep from (unintelligible word) babies come in the world. You want to rob us. I was doing inventory about two o\u2019clock this morning with Judy, and we had so little of these, and you\u2013 and you were\u2013 when\u2019d you get these? (Mocking) Sir.<\/p>\n

Brian Davis:<\/strong> I got \u2018em from (unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> When did you get \u2018em?<\/p>\n

Thom Bogue:<\/strong> He got \u2018em from me and\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> The lie\u2013 the night you lied and said you didn\u2019t get anything out of there.<\/p>\n

Davis:<\/strong> This morning.<\/p>\n

Bogue:<\/strong> That\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s when I got \u2018em, Father.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> On the road.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> My God almighty. (Pause) You<\/em> couldn\u2019t fuck that much the rest of your life.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Male 6:<\/strong> You can\u2019t fuck that much.<\/p>\n

Male 7:<\/strong> (unintelligible \u00a0beginning) you lied. You said you was looking around in the nurse\u2019s office. What<\/em> was you looking for?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible word) Listen to him, listen to him.<\/p>\n

Male 7:<\/strong> Why<\/em> did you lie before, when we had you up here?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I don\u2019t have to\u2013 I don\u2019t have to say a word to stop him from anything. He\u2019d an older black man, if this country would justify for anything.<\/p>\n

Male 7:<\/strong> Well, why\u2019d<\/em> you lie? Why\u2019d<\/em> you lie to Father?<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Woman 4:<\/strong> You\u2019re gonna answer him, (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Male 7:<\/strong> Why?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You better answer him. You better answer him, you better answer him, fool.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Male 7:<\/strong> You had all this planned then, didn\u2019t you? Didn\u2019t<\/em> you have this planned? And you fucked (unintelligible word) my brother\u2019s (unintelligible word) you resented it, didn\u2019t<\/em> you? Why<\/em> are you resenting him?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Go right ahead, brother. Have your day.<\/p>\n

Male 7:<\/strong> Why are you resenting him? Why? Why? Why are you resenting him?<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Male 7:<\/strong> You been\u2013 you been cock-eyed, (unintelligible) day before yesterday, and you wouldn\u2019t say a word to him. No, you wouldn\u2019t, you were not, you were (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Male 7:<\/strong> Why are you\u2013 why are you (unintelligible) and you said no. Why<\/em>? Why you didn\u2019t say him?<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Woman 5:<\/strong> Don\u2019t you go to him hostile.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You\u2013 you use black brothers and sisters will put up with your shit\u2013 put up with your shit, uh, it\u2019s only by my beckoning that they be kind to people like you.<\/p>\n

Woman 5:<\/strong> That\u2019s the truth.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Male 8:<\/strong> You feel the strength in him?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He could break your body.<\/p>\n

Male 7:<\/strong> Every day we could\u2013 would you come in through there and you just walk over people. Wh\u2013 What you tell her, you show her, you\u2019s cocky<\/em> as you can be. And I told her you was gettin\u2019 special treatment, to let you alone.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You have been a failure<\/em> and a heartbreak. Is there\u2019s any move in you, you should let it be known before we move a movement entirely<\/em> on the side of violence to bring change. If there\u2019s anything honest that can come out of your minds, you better let it out tonight, \u2018cause you\u2019re forever esta\u2013 establishing a course<\/em> in this movement. (Pause) You cost everyone here, the majority, except a few anarchists, to disbelieve that reason prevails. To disbelieve that an ap\u2013 appeal<\/em> to your higher senses causes anything more than to be schni\u2013 uh, spit in, our faces spit upon, and walk over as our precious black brother\u2019s saying, was your cocky ass. (Pause) Don\u2019t you know that anybody that touches this place finally gets judgment, all their arrogant attitudes don\u2019t make any difference who?<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> To be (unintelligible word) any other foundation but socialist principle, you come down, you have accidents, you\u2019ll be sick, you\u2019ll die, and not easy.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> No one\u2019s ever ever<\/em> uttered anything blasphemous against me, they didn\u2019t pay for it.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Now open up your mouth and see if you can get any reason, \u2018cause there\u2019s a m\u2013 a horrible night ahead of us for you<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Bogue:<\/strong> What I\u2013\u00a0what I did today was totally fucked-up on my part, and then to put you through all this hell and to put all the other comrades through all this hell just to hustle my crazy ass, and I think I should\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman 6:<\/strong> (unintelligible) \u2013white honky ass.<\/p>\n

Bogue:<\/strong> \u2013and I think I should-<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, now\u2013 (Pause)<\/p>\n

Woman 6:<\/strong> \u2013what you said, the people back here worrying about, you said, you don\u2019t even care about (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Bogue:<\/strong> I think I should get my ass kicked royally tonight. I mean, worse\u2013 uh, worse\u2013<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Bogue:<\/strong> Worse than what it was the other night. And to have to work all night tonight, all night tomorrow, and\u2013 and\u2013<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>Angry voices<\/p>\n

(Pause)<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Bogue:<\/strong> \u2013\u2018cause I like to be anarchistic, and I was just, you know, doing it for my own ass, and I wasn\u2019t thinking about anything else, and I never have, and\u2013 and for\u2013 for uh, my discipline for fucking, I would think I should uh, like, uh, go through some torture or something for uh\u2013 un\u2013 until\u2013 until I just uh, black out altogether, or longer.<\/p>\n

Man 9: <\/strong>How about a good really<\/em> hard day\u2019s work, which you never<\/em> do? How about one of those?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah, yeah. Hmm.<\/p>\n

Man 9: <\/strong>I mean a really good hard day. Instead he\u2019s standing around, cocking around, and standing around looking. A good<\/em> hard day. I\u2019d<\/em> like to have you. I<\/em> could get a day out of you. Both of you.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> They\u2019re preparing handcuffs. That\u2019s a cinch. Uh, there nobody prepared to do iut\u2013 trust anybody without handcuffs. Not when you do this thing to us. Not when you do this thing to us.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Eileen\u2019s enigma to me. What\u2019re you laugh\u2013 What\u2019re you smiling about, uh, Eileen?<\/p>\n

Woman 7:<\/strong> You put your hands down.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Shh. Yes, will you put your hands down? There are rules<\/em> that maintain an organization, and the rules are put your hands by your side. This is elementary as eating on time, if you\u2019re to keep an organization. You anarchists never will learn that rules<\/em> are meant to protect<\/em> you. If not you<\/em>, the children and the older people. You cannot break a rule uh, at your will. I have a great deal of difficulty communicating that to people I love<\/em>. (Pause) You cannot<\/em> break rules. Or everybody else around<\/em> you will break rules.<\/p>\n

Tucker:<\/strong> Uh, when you said uh, about the putting the handcuffs on him, uh, it brought to my mind that I thought of chains, uh, you know, when\u2013 when uh, you was asking this evening what did I think, I thought of chains, but I thought it would be too harsh<\/em>, you know.<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>Angry voices<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013this stuff was stolen.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Take the watch off. Take it off. There\u2019s a kid that gave his new watch, uh, (unintelligible word)\u2013 Let him have it. (Pause) yes, Katherine [Domineck]. See you been up fairly long standing there, you trying to speak for eighty\u2013 87 years, what is you\u2013 what is it you would like to say, Katherine?<\/p>\n

Domineck:<\/strong> I think they ought to be separated. I don\u2019t think they ought to be together anymore.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Separated. Elementary, darling.<\/p>\n

Domineck:<\/strong> Yes sir.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Or maybe they should be uh, bound together in eternal friendship.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013she was finished, though. Don\u2019t underestimate Domineck. (tape edit) \u2013we\u2019ll get it out of you, friend.<\/p>\n

Male 10:<\/strong> What do you got here? What else you got here to (unintelligible word) All right.<\/p>\n

Davis:<\/strong> I was find out what I was doing, and everything I wanted to take, I was putting in my\u2013 my knapsack or gunny bag.<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013anything short of that. I don\u2019t care.<\/p>\n

Male 11:<\/strong> Where did you hide the rest of the stuff? You left in a hastily, you wasn\u2019t ready to go. Where did you hide the rest of the stuff?<\/p>\n

Davis:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Male 11:<\/strong> How long you been planning this with him, uh, Brian?<\/p>\n

Male 12:<\/strong> One day. He said three<\/em> days. Ever since he was up here before, he said you was working with him on this. And he\u2019s shaking his head now.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013I think not ought to be used for breaking the hell out of \u2018em, and everybody that b\u2013 breaks those cups ought to be held responsible. Those cost two<\/em> dollars US, those soup cups.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What\u2019s that you said, brother?<\/p>\n

Male 11:<\/strong> They should do \u2018em like they do in the Navy, hang \u2018em from the yardarm by their thumbs overnight. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> W\u2013 Who are the\u2013 Those are wor\u2013 the sneaky kind.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Male 13:<\/strong> Who said no?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Who said no? Somebody (unintelligible word)\u2013 (tape edit) quick to want people disciplined firmly and spanked hard for uh, drinking water when they shouldn\u2019t drink it. In their mind.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013aluminum for us, he\u2019s\u2013 he traded aluminum against us one time, now you\u2019re taking our preventatives. You<\/em> think that these idiots around here are not socialist, the few that are out there barefoot? (unintelligible word) people have not born by a revolution? Do you think that they\u2019re going to bother about a fuckin\u2019 condom? Assholes like you don\u2019t\u2013 that they\u2013 All you sell them to is another asshole. People who care, uh, uh, uh, are here<\/em>, that will put on the rubbers. They\u2019re not gonna buy rubbers out there, idiot. What the hell they care if they get people knocked up out in the woods. (under breath) Dumb ass.<\/p>\n

Male 14:<\/strong> Marie Lawrence uh\u2013 Marie\u2013 Marie Lawrence just said that she saw, was it Brian? (tape edit) [Levatus] McKinnis saw Brian? Brian make five trips back and forth to the bush last night, and I\u2019m just wondering if he let\u2013 if he stash shit out there.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You better speak up. McKinnis shoulda had this in the office by now.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. I said to bring it to me<\/em> immediately. What were you doing in the bush five times last night?<\/p>\n

Davis:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t\u2013 It wasn\u2019t the bush, it was the dump truck, and I was just putting our stuff out there until we got ready to leave.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Davis:<\/strong> That\u2013 that\u2019s it. All\u2013 All that we took.<\/p>\n

Male 15:<\/strong> All you had was in the bag.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Bogue:<\/strong> I went to the warehouse and I asked for two boxes of matches, and she brought two packs, and I took two packs in\u2013 instead of telling that I took\u2013 that I just wanted two small boxes.<\/p>\n

Woman 8:<\/strong> (unintelligible) have no matches, they were rubbers. And yeah, you do have it, actually, you better<\/em> stop lying.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You goddamn liars, as you know, that that\u2019s why (unintelligible word) people want to deal with them nicely. If people gone out of here\u2013<\/p>\n

Male 16:<\/strong> Why\u2019d you lie to me? Why\u2019d you lie to me when I asked you did you have matches?<\/p>\n

(voice too soft)<\/p>\n

Woman 9: <\/strong>Answer him.<\/p>\n

Male 16:<\/strong> Yes, you lied. Why did you lie?<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>Angry voices.<\/p>\n

(Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Bogue:<\/strong> Yes, they did.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Let us see what\u2013 (Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Davis:<\/strong> Yes, Father.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m encouraged by that. Why did you think you\u2019d miss your family more than your Father, who will give your life for you. There\u2019s no picture of your Father.<\/p>\n

Woman 10:<\/strong> We want you dead<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

(Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013(unintelligible \u00a0beginning) there was some intercepted in the town by government that were negative. One sister came to me and apolog ized without realizing. So we\u2019ll have to dictate letters now. We\u2019ll have to add to your commission some of the former that were in the uh, correspondence uh, for life until we uh, get our mailing list here. Get all that\u2013 uh, take all those things out, they\u2019re not gettin\u2019 those\u2013 they\u2019re not (unintelligible word) private uh, po\u2013 possession. Give me that\u2013\u00a0Give me that uh, direction thing. The compass. (Tape edit) I do. Yes, sister. (Tape edit) \u2013and it\u2019s a big operation to maintain them. Thank you. (Tape edit) \u2013me trouble. Everybody here knows who\u2019s causing me trouble, and I don\u2019t like this kinda life. Can\u2019t reason to people, gotta talk to them like an animal. (Pause) Tie them up. [What] Kinda damn business is this? (Pause) You gentlemen better not cause any more, \u2018cause it\u2013 I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m\u2013 if they had to run out of here, I had to stop people running out of here to take things in their own hands. You don\u2019t know how close you came tonight. No, you don\u2019t<\/em> know. Not\u2013\u00a0A lot of you settin\u2019 there don\u2019t know how close you came. Uh, some people you infuriated them beyond anything. White men taking advantage of the black people. (Pause) Come on, man, get your damn shoe in there and get over there. (Pause) Go on, tie it, tie it, tie it, tie it, tie it.<\/p>\n

Woman 11:<\/strong> You never say \u201cThank you, Father,\u201d do you, you goddamn bastard.
\n(Pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yes, Jack. (tape edit) \u2013bowel movements, and once other (stumbles over words) you (unintelligible word) cost a great deal, as he said, to cut down on the expense<\/em>, but some of you just don\u2019t use any sense, and when you put your hand to your\u2013\u00a0your backside, you\u2019re\u2013 that\u2019s where you contaminate yourself. It\u2019ll go through the bowel and\u2013 when you set around on something, you pick up something, and you put it to your mouth later, and then that\u2019s where you got real<\/em> trouble. You may be seated. Yes.<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Uh, you set out to work, (unintelligible word) tomorrow, then uh\u2013 tomorrow they\u2019ll be out cutting wood. They\u2019ll be out\u2013 There\u2019s a big, big, big tree, they\u2019ll be cutting up wood for you way out. So they\u2019ll be assigned to that. (tape edit)<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Part II:<\/strong><\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013\u2018cause time\u2019s gonna teach you a hard lesson, too.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> (unintelligible \u00a0beginning) I\u2019d just like to say, (pause) about that<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What is it?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I\u2019d just like to say about that (unintelligible), the only intellectual (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones and male talk over each other<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I just\u2013 I wasn\u2019t really referring uh, to\u2013 I wasn\u2019t referring\u2013 I wasn\u2019t referring to the group that I felt that I was smarter than anyone else. I just\u2013 I just meant that I was referring to people of\u2013 that are familiar with arts (unintelligible) sort of kind of uh, intellectual background, but I\u2013 I really don\u2019t uh, consider myself as an intellectual.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Um-hmm [Yes].<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> So I really\u2013 I just use that word, but I really was referring to\u2013 to the group.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been living in (unintelligible) but you won\u2019t be very well for a while. And I hope that you uh, learn<\/em>, because I have to exert my power with a sense of justice and will. (Pause) When you finish with brother\u2013 when you finish and are<\/em> better, when you finish, then we want to decide where he\u2019s to be placed under regular work, so you can learn a little bit about followthrough. (Pause) Anyone wish to take this (stumbles over words) this responsibility? Who is it back there? Marie? You think you can handle this, too? Hmm?<\/p>\n

Marie:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013in between.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I\u2019ll bring you close to it. You\u2019ll know what it is, before next Peoples Rally. Because you have stepped too far. (Pause) And when he (unintelligible word) out of the proverbs, it\u2019s time you<\/em> got your head into some Marx and Lenin thinking, and begin to quote to us some famous quotations of revolutionaries<\/em>. Even Malcolm<\/em> [X] did not know the causative factors of the problem. Nor the solution. It\u2019s time you<\/em> knew what Marx and Lenin and all of those thoughts, comparable thinkers have to say, about present conditions. And I expect<\/em> him to do his study and his homework in the introduction to socialism. I expect<\/em> you to do it. And when you are back in good<\/em> health, I expect<\/em> you to be on the job and doing your task, when<\/em> you are back<\/em> in good health.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

M14:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 Thank you, Father. Thank you, Father.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Rise and let\u2019s sing, \u201cUnited Forever\u201d [national anthem of Soviet Union, modified] (tape edit)<\/p>\n

(sings) United forever in friendship and labor
\nA mighty people shall ever endure
\nThe great socialist union shall live through the ages
\nA dream of a people, their fortress secure
\nLong live (unintelligible) fatherland
\nWas built by (unintelligible) mighty hand
\nLong live her people united and free
\nLong live this communist dream
\n(speaks) Having trouble holding your arm up, brother?<\/p>\n

End of tape<\/strong><\/p>\n

Tape originally posted May 2013<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3. Jones: \u2013against uh\u2013 Woman in crowd: (too soft) Jones: Who is it? (Pause) What\u2019s this (unintelligible word)? Who […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":623,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-27621","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27621","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=27621"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27621\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":59606,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27621\/revisions\/59606"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=27621"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}