{"id":27639,"date":"2013-06-16T00:21:32","date_gmt":"2013-06-16T00:21:32","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/alternativejonestown.com\/?page_id=27639"},"modified":"2023-06-18T11:58:55","modified_gmt":"2023-06-18T18:58:55","slug":"q998","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=27639","title":{"rendered":"Q998 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>, Pt. 2<\/a>). <\/p>\n

(Note:<\/strong> Transcript prepared by Catherine Abbott. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)<\/i><\/p>\n

Jim Jones: <\/b>(tape comes on mid-sentence) \u2013and uh, racist U.S. did not recognize this marriage<\/i> here, \u2018cause this is\u2013 It\u2019s after all a third-world black<\/i> country, and his marriage here didn\u2019t mean<\/i> anything to them. (pause) And I was used\u2013 (pause) I was used again, as always, on the point of\u2013 (pause) Well, we would rather die<\/i>, and uh, I think you need to know that\u2019s the kinda commitments I make<\/i> and you may not like that kind of lifestyle. But that\u2019s the kind of commitment I had to make. I said, uh, no, no, we don\u2019t deliver. And then they said, uh, this, that, and the other and so forth, and so on, and I said well, finally what we agreed to do. They said that, uh, that the embassy uh, the\u2013 they can be a representative as long as he\u2019s not unfriendly, somebody that\u2019s friendly, has been not involved in the conspiracy. And an official from the Guyanese foreign minister, the jus\u2013 justice department, can come here and see these young men [Bruce and William Oliver] on our property, and see and talk to them alone, (pause) if they want to, and find out if indeed they\u2019re where they want to be and if they\u2019re happy where they are, and if uh, indeed, they uh, ever want to see their parents<\/i> [Beverly and Howard Oliver] again. \u2018Cause I happen to know that what their parents has done has only ceased to cause them to hate<\/i> them to the depths of their soul. It does<\/i> that after awhile.<\/p>\n

Anyway, that\u2019s what we agreed<\/i> on. And even so, the conspirators, the pressure, pushers (pause), we\u2013 the foreign minister [Fred Wills] informed us they might<\/i> try and slip in here on their own. Might be doing it at the moment. You don\u2019t know. And uh, what do we they do if they do, well, we don\u2019t let them in, of course. As I told them, I said no, (Stumbles over words) he said, what will you do if they come in? I said they will not<\/i> come in, because to let them in means that we have to let in every filth and all the vile trash that may want to come in for the next fifty days, and we\u2019ll never get any work done. And we won\u2019t be able to provide our food to eat. First, they asked us, because uh, they had the nerve<\/i> to insist that we pay their way in. I said why, (Stumbles over words) we were not paying their way in. You want to come in, you come here<\/i>. And one of the people \u2018til I got ahold of foreign minister direct, who\u2019s not so courageous, I said, uh, I said if you want them to see uh, their kids, you get your goddamned Air Force plane out<\/i> and send it \u2013 you sent it once before \u2013 send it over here to the airport and land<\/i> it there, with two Air Force officers, and we\u2019ll have our people there to see if they\u2019re not taken away against their will, and let those two renegades, those lackeys, Uncle Toms, who joined the Nazi of all things, and taken money from a Nazi, no money in their pocket, Foreign Minister said the exact\u2013 how much money they had, just uh, uh, nothing. All they got out of this whole goddamned trip was just a trip<\/i>, that\u2019s all. A<\/i> trip\u2013 hotel room, and the food<\/i> for the few days they\u2019re here. I think they had uh, forty<\/i> bucks on their person. They didn\u2019t get any money to spend, but they sell out their children, try to destroy their children, forty dollars, that\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s uh, uh, I\u2019m not saying forty dollars, but they sure didn\u2019t have very much money when you travel with forty dollars. \u2018Cause the foreign minister told us exactly. And I said, no, you bring in and we will not pay a dime, we\u2019ve had it with this, we\u2019re not bringing anybody<\/i> in anymore, uh, to see anybody. We\u2013 we will take care of our people, we will maintain them, but we\u2019re not paying any money to see uh, evil relatives. And they\u2019ve got some Edith, Edith something, Edith Beber or Beeber or some bitch, I guess she\u2019s the sister of uh, uh, (Stumbles over words) Sister [Irene] Edwards, what\u2019s her sister\u2019s name?<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd<\/b>: (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Edna who?<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd<\/b>: (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s another name, Edna what\u2013 what\u2019s the damn name?<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd<\/b>: (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> No, I know, but that\u2019s not the name. Somebody find out what that name is. She\u2019s the one\u2013 she wanted you<\/i> to deliver it so she could give you the message. Uh, I said, uh, I know in your heart, I said, no, no, you\u2019re not delivering anybody (Unintelligible word) message. You want to give her a message, you can send<\/i> her the message, \u2018cause that\u2019s what she\u2019ll want<\/i>. (pause) But uh, so smart, that they wouldn\u2019t even give it to the United States Embassy<\/i> to give to you. So assured they are, they\u2019ve got the backing of some pretty right-wing capitalistic elements. And I think you need think about (pause) what you will do and how far you will go, (pause) and I think you need to face reality<\/i>. I\u2013 I\u2019m of the opinion that the stronger you manifest your will<\/i> and determination, the more likely you are to survive<\/i> in this crazy world. I have not been able to get through there by talking sweet<\/i> thus far. Not even to people that are socialist<\/i>, they get a little afraid at times, and I say, well (laughs) just tell them that\u2019s what it is, you gotta deal with us, that\u2019s all. You gotta deal with us. Say, well, we got a real problem<\/i>, because if uh, if uh, they\u2019re not able to come into (pause) this part of the country, then Guyanese\u2019ll be able to be denied to go into other<\/i> parts of the country. I said, well, I\u2019m assured right now, that there may be a\u2013 in theory<\/i> Guyanese can go anyplace they damn well please, but Guyanese don\u2019t<\/i> get visas to the United States all the time because they\u2019re black<\/i>. And so I said, uh, I\u2013 I\u2019m not into that phase of it, I\u2019m just saying what we<\/i> can live with. We<\/i> do not open our property to that kind of people. If those uh, children wanted them to come here, we\u2019d let them come. They don\u2019t want them to come, so they\u2019re not comin\u2019. And that\u2019s the way (unintelligible) after hours<\/i> of yesterday and hours<\/i> last night and hours today, it finally, beginning with the early hour of the morning, it ended up that way, send in the\u2013 finish giving them telephone message to send in by (Unintelligible name) about seven o\u2019clock in the morning and he took that in, and\u2013 they no sooner got through, they got their phone, and on we went the radio, and we all went the radio all afternoon, \u2018til, uh, it\u2019s just now.<\/p>\n

Going onto another subject<\/i>, it\u2019s that\u2013 that\u2013 \u2018cause that was temporarily (pause) laid aside. Edna Beaver, is that\u2013 is that\u2013 is that, uh, (Stumbles over words), she\u2019s using it\u2013 us\u2013 using another name, huh? (pause) I don\u2019t know how you plan<\/i> your life, but everybody, even though they know that uh, (Clears throat) will and determination can win many a victory, how many plan your death ever?<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, it\u2019s no great mumble, how many uh, how many plan your death, in different ways\u2013 how many plan your death?<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Do you ever plan your death? There\u2019s a number of you that do not lift your hand and say you plan your death. You don\u2019t ever plan your death? (pause) You\u2019re gonna die<\/i>. Don\u2019t you think you should plan about such an important event? (pause) Hmmm? (pause) Well, I see some\u2013 I\u2019ll just call somebody I don\u2019t see their hands up, that\u2013 that they\u2019re not planning their death. Lois Ponts, I don\u2019t see your hand up, don\u2019t you plan your death?<\/p>\n

Lois Ponts<\/b>: (inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Ponts<\/b>: (inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I want to hear, I can\u2019t hear you.<\/p>\n

Ponts<\/b>: (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Ponts<\/b>: (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(unintelligible beginning) the mike\u2019s, uh, limited stretch. (pause, mike being moved)<\/p>\n

Ponts:<\/b> \u2013Said, I always planned to uh, be blown in million pieces<\/i>. Thought that would be the best way to go up, but I don\u2019t think it\u2019d happen here.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, I\u2019m uh\u2013 I\u2019m talking about planning<\/i> your death, I don\u2019t uh, I don\u2019t care how<\/i> you plan it, you may not plan it the way I<\/i> plan it or you may not plan it the way that ni\u2013 your comrade plans it, then\u2013 In other words, you have planned (pause) your death at times. You\u2019ve planned your death for an operation, and uh, some kind of operation the best\u2013 the way you\u2019d like to plan it would be to b\u2013 put your body in a million pieces.<\/p>\n

Ponts<\/b> (interrupting): Yes, blow up something with it.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s a\u2013 that\u2019s a very ri\u2013that\u2019s a very realistic plan. (pause) How many planned their death? (pause) I\u2019m not trying to\u2013 some people, uh, Sister [Vera] Talley, don\u2019t you ever plan your death? You don\u2019t plan your death, huh?<\/p>\n

Vera Talley<\/b>: (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You don\u2019t<\/i>? Well, I\u2013 I think you, uh, I\u2019d like to know why, what\u2013 what is it\u2013 you\u2013 the reason you don\u2019t? Maybe it\u2019s a mistake<\/i>, like, uh, \u2018cause some people are looking over at Sister (unintelligible name), and I thought I\u2019d asked her, and I\u2019m certain, I\u2019d heard her talk about dying. You don\u2019t ever plan your death?<\/p>\n

Talley<\/b>: No.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You don\u2019t.<\/p>\n

Talley<\/b>: No.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>And why don\u2019t you, dear?<\/p>\n

Talley<\/b>: I don\u2019t know, I just hadn\u2019t thought about it.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> But don\u2019t you think it\u2019s, uh, time to think about it? (pause)<\/p>\n

Talley<\/b>: It\u2013 it may\u2013 It\u2013 (stumbling, pauses)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What is it, honey?<\/p>\n

Talley<\/b>: It might be time, but I just hadn\u2019t thought about planning it.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, it\u2019s a shame to have it to be an accident (pause)\u2013 it\u2019s a terrible thing to have it to be an accident, like I saw my mother [Lynetta Jones] and in many ways your<\/i> mother to be, uh, wasted and just laid in a box. I think that\u2019s a kind of a waste, don\u2019t you think?<\/p>\n

Talley: <\/b>They had\u2013 (pause) Only one time, and my husband just quit payin\u2019 it and I didn\u2019t have no money to pay it, and I just let it go, and I hadn\u2019t thought no more about it.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I\u2019m not talking about insurance, I\u2019m not talking about capitalizing on your death. Uh\u2013 You\u2019re a beautiful woman, you\u2019ve given, (stumbles), your babies have been dropped by the enslaver, the, uh\u2013 the, uh\u2013 Yes honey, restroom. The\u2013 The\u2013 Okay, (Unintelligible), that\u2019s sweet, I\u2019ll sure ask. You\u2019ve shown great<\/i> courage to take what you did from the man, but I\u2019m not talking about getting an insurance policy to help somebody, I\u2019m talking about planning your death for the victory of the people. For socialism, for communism, for black liberation, for oppressed<\/i> liberation. Would you\u2013 haven\u2019t you had such thought? Haven\u2019t you ever thought about, as the sister said, taking a bomb and running into a Ku Klux Klan meeting and destroying all the Ku Klux Klan people?<\/p>\n

(long pause, microphone buzzes)<\/p>\n

Talley<\/b>: (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I wish you people would fix this goddamn thing between sessions. (pause) It would help. Go ahead, \u2018cause\u2013 yeah, it\u2019s very difficult to communicate, and all you people back there better not be looking at any babies because I\u2019m really going to be watching you tonight, I\u2019m going to really watch you. You get to fuck with it, huh? Well, I have to plan every day. (pause) Indeed, Billy and Bruce, they\u2019re more my children than yours, but they shouldn\u2019t<\/i> be. To me, Billy and Bruce was like sending my<\/i> kids into that depraved, which they call King Kong, king of the cons, that black attorney [Roger Holmes] that\u2019s been a sell-out to white folk all<\/i> through the Bay Area, who had the nerve to threaten me. I\u2019ll make a good story, a good show on you. If<\/i> you deliver them, nobody will ever know. And if you don\u2019t<\/i> deliver them, I\u2019ll give you a terrible<\/i> story, I\u2019ll see that you are blasted<\/i>. (pause) And I said, (slow and emphatic) kiss my ass.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Cheers and applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Okay. (Clears throat) Now, uh, Mother, uh, haven\u2019t you ever thought about that\u2013 haven\u2019t you ever thought about killing anybody?<\/p>\n

Woman 1<\/b>: (unintelligible) enough to do that?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What is it, honey?<\/p>\n

Woman 1<\/b>: I said, I have got (unintelligible) time to do that, but (unintelligible) it goes away, I don\u2019t know\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Things goes away.<\/p>\n

Woman 1:<\/b> Things goes away.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Sighs) Well, I\u2019ve<\/i> thought of it, uh, I\u2019ve thought of it a number of ways. (bangs mike) Peace. Can we do<\/i> something with the motherfucking thing, or is it possible? (pause) You had a question, did you, Maya? A lot of my irritation, just tired, as I\u2019ve had no sleep. (pause) Maya, you wanted to ask a question, sweetie?<\/p>\n

Maya Ijames<\/b>: What does planning your death mean?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, it\u2019s just like I said, like uh, Lois said, if she gone die, she\u2019d blow herself up, but, uh, she\u2019d take some people with<\/i> her, who were enemies of the people, who are racist or Ku Klux Klan or fascist<\/i>. I\u2019m sure all of you know what Ku Klux Klan are\u2013 Nazis. March around, kill Jews and kill black people, put \u2018em in ovens to burn<\/i> \u2018em alive, put children\u2013 snatch children from parents\u2019 arms and throwed them in fires. They did that in last war. Millions of children, and now they\u2019re growing again in the United States. (Pause) I\u2013 No sense at all that you\u2019ve got that plan around the corner. Believe me, you\u2019d know the difference, if you\u2019d been with us through the siege. Through the state of siege, you would\u2019ve known the difference<\/i>. But I think<\/i> that a healthy person has to think<\/i> through his death, or he may<\/i> sell out<\/i>, if he hasn\u2019t thought through his death. And I don\u2019t mean just vaguely<\/i>, or it just passed your mind, I mean thought<\/i> through your death. I don\u2019t mean dying in a bed with heart attack or cancer, but I mean giving your life before you had<\/i> to die. \u2018Cause after you\u2019re nineteen years of age, you\u2019re dying anyway, you know. Your cells are not reproducing as fast as they are dying<\/i>. So if you\u2019re over nineteen, you\u2019re already dying, and a lot of people, that happened before<\/i> they were nineteen. (pause) More cells die than you create new cells, so you start dying at nineteen. And whatever faculty I\u2019ve<\/i> used to reverse it, (Clears throat) it takes a hell of a lot of cooperation with me, and most people are not willing to cooperate that much to reverse it forever, if indeed that\u2019s possible. I know I\u2019ve brought people back from the living dead, I mean, the literal dead, I\u2019ve seen that, but uh, I\u2019ve never seen uh, anything<\/i> on earth\u2013 No, I know (Unintelligible word) nothing exists at this time. If it were, it would be in me<\/i> that can take somebody back and then throw the calendar back several years, and take, uh, lines out of faces and uh, give them smooth tissue and uh, more so here. Uh\u2013 You can see people, uh, when they came from the States \u2013 yes, restroom \u2013 when they came from the States, they looked so bloated and here they look younger<\/i>. If you look around, a lot of people look younger<\/i>. Particularly after they\u2019re here for a little while, they look, uh, like a new grown healthiness to their\u2013 their body.<\/p>\n

I\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2019ve thought of things, of various<\/i> kinds of things, you know. I thought, well\u2013 (Pause) Say the government were to be taken over\u2013 say the government were to be taken over. What would I do? What would I do? What\u2013 How could I\u2013 how could I best serve you? I\u2019m so realistic that I know that in the world of international politics, the way they portrayed me and the way my own operation is so cleverly and intelligently put together, with our own secret uh, archives and our own intelligence services, that someone might say, well, he\u2019s really CIA. (Pause) Not anybody that knows<\/i> me. You live<\/i> with me, you\u2013 (short laugh) you don\u2019t go through this kind of shit<\/i> for the CIA, see, that\u2019s how we can\u2013 we pretty well show, we don\u2019t have very many plants<\/i> in our organization. You work the fuck<\/i> out of plants, plants wouldn\u2019t\u2013 they wouldn\u2019t last<\/i> as long. They don\u2019t get enough pay<\/i> to come into Peoples Temple and be a plant very<\/i> long. If they\u2019re a plant, they\u2019ll do like\u2013 uh, you gotta watch the lazies, like Mrs. Mertle [Deanna Mertle, aka Jeannie Mills], who stayed away from the operation. She never worked. Never got\u2013 Deanna always had somebody working<\/i>, but she never worked. Or Tim Stoen, you could\u2013 you never never could put your finger on his work, as Al Tschetter said, I think, uh, weeks ago, he also saw him walking downtown in church at night, he would\u2013 he was always goin\u2019 someplace. But you never saw him set in the service and go through it, or to counsel very long with people, he didn\u2019t do that. Those are the kind of people you gotta really watch. The lazy ones, that don\u2019t ever work. Because that\u2019s<\/i> your plant. But a person out there in the field, day after day after day and working, and all kinds of jobs and sweatin\u2019, but that individual\u2019s not gonna be a plant very long<\/i>, \u2018cause they\u2019s not paying that kind of wages<\/i> anymore. CIA used to pay some wages, but now they don\u2019t pay enough, they put you\u2013 they give you a hotel in Pegasus [in Georgetown] in four days<\/i>. That\u2019s all\u2013 that\u2019s all the goddamned Olivers<\/i> are getting out of this mess. That\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s cheap pay<\/i>. There ain\u2019t nobody gonna work out, even though we know why we\u2019re working, and it\u2019s beautiful challenge to work, \u2018cause it\u2019s our land, we can build<\/i> something out of it. (Clears throat)<\/p>\n

And we\u2019re gambling against time<\/i>. We\u2019re gambling that, uh, the way the world\u2019s going, there may be a nuclear war before they ever get a chance to get to us. If they do, we got it\u2013 we got it made. We\u2019ll run this entire Northwest region, we\u2019ll move out quickly, and recruit the population, and take over, and distribute the wealth. The few here, that are not quite just, we\u2019ll make them just. I mean around us, you see. And some of you will have to develop leadership, because we\u2013 we could take over the Northwest, and we\u2019d be, uh, the\u2013 the rest of our children\u2019s lives, and your lives, you wouldn\u2019t have to worry. And that\u2019s quite possible that can happen, but you don\u2019t just sit back and, say, well, that\u2019s absolutely what I\u2019m living<\/i> for, because something else might come along, and uh, (stumbles over words)\u2013 It\u2019s foolish to plan that everything\u2019s gonna work out just like you\u2019d like to have it work out<\/i>. But I\u2019ve\u2013 I one time got so (Unintelligible word) position, I thought, well, what will I do? We got all the people here\u2013 (Unintelligible word) A million<\/i> times I\u2019ve planned my death, Jesus Christ. It\u2019s so\u2013 This is like\u2013 it\u2019s a\u2013 it\u2019s an everyday affair with me because I have<\/i> to, I love<\/i> you, and I\u2019ve got to make that. And now what could I do? There\u2019s one chap [John Victor Stoen] that uh, if his mother [Grace Stoen] was like an ordinary human being, I didn\u2019t know her as a savage, the one that made me have to go to bed with her (pause) because she was threatening the cause, threatening the (Unintelligible word) to\u2013 to lie! And to leave uh, Tim Stoen, and do all kinds of hell, and he asked me to do something and I did, and I have a lovely, lovely baby. A lovely son. (pause) If she were like an ordinary woman<\/i>, I wouldn\u2019t have all this battle, you know. Wouldn\u2019t be a battle. If I<\/i> were in her position, I\u2019d step out of the life, if I could look and see him over there as happy as I\u2019d\u2013 I see him here with all of his friends, it wouldn\u2019t take me a snap of the finger, I would pass him in the street and he\u2019d never know who I was. \u2018Cause I would want his happiness. He\u2019s an obviously happy lad. Our children are pretty happy, as the most part goes. They got animals, they got life, they got nature, uh, they\u2019re the happiest that you\u2019ve seen them in your life. They play, they got room, uh, up to a pretty high age, you could safely say that they\u2019re happier than they\u2019ve ever been. They can look at birds, and they can get around all these kinda rare tropical birds and that toucan is so tame, and you go up there and be real gentle with him and (Unintelligible word) he\u2019ll play tug-of-war with you, I\u2019ve got him trained so he\u2019ll play tug-of-war with you, like a dog. He\u2019s so, uh\u2013 can\u2019t feed him, because you\u2019ll get him sick, and uh, some people (Unintelligible word), but he\u2019s just so\u2013 he\u2019s so tame and so gentle, and uh, you can take his ol\u2019 beak, and that beak\u2019ll just cut down on your finger, like, you know and I first cut my finger and like a razorblade, but now you\u2013 he\u2019ll play tug-of-war with you, and he\u2019ll go (sound of demonstration). It\u2019s like a dog takes a rag. Lovely thing, you never got a chance, some of you, to ever grow up with him, that little monkey, riding around on this arm and that arm, I saw him a moment ago down here and he\u2019s jumpin\u2019 around there. Sloth, you\u2019ll see it, from\u2013 arm to arm. That\u2019s a wonder\u2013 a wonderful thing for children, to have such an opportunity. All psychiatrists say that that\u2019s what makes children healthy, to be coming in contact with the animal life and nature at an early age. They\u2013 they become normal<\/i>, they learn how to love<\/i>, they learn how to love through contact with animals and pets and caring for things.<\/p>\n

Then the\u2013 the anteater, which is so cute as he travels behind somebody, if they don\u2019t pick him up, and the other day he\u2019s going through the rice tents, (short laugh) while I was workin\u2019, and Beverly\u2013 (pause), uh, it moved past Charlie [Touchette] was\u2013 I think relating it about it, uh, (laughs) and it was funny. He was going after\u2013 Beverly had\u2013 Beverly kind of eluded<\/i> him, and he was hunting for any leg<\/i>, and he climbed up some dear lady\u2019s leg, he just\u2013 (Pause) The dear lady took it pretty well, \u2018cause he\u2013 he\u2013 and if you listen to him as he travels along, he goes urrrr (low growling). He just growls, he doesn\u2019t bite, but just urrrr (growls), he just gets so pissed when somebody won\u2019t pick him up and hug him. You follow along, you can listen to him as he goes along, when Bev lets him down, he goes urrrr (growling). (Pause) And an anteater that\u2019s supposed to teach us how to kill ants, and he won\u2019t go near \u2018em, \u2018cause he took one red ant and that was it, and\u2013<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones: \u2013<\/b>now he wants milk and honey.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd<\/b>: (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Oh, yes. Maybe we can slip a few ants in and retrain him. I don\u2019t know. But\u2013 but he\u2019s got a tongue about a foot long that can reach out andv\u2013 pfft \u2013 and get all those ants, but he just, I\u2013 I don\u2019t know, (Stumbles over words) I haven\u2019t seen him do any<\/i> ant-gettin\u2019.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I know<\/i>, that one night he got some red ants in his nose and that was it, that\u2019s the finish of it, he\u2013 he said to piss on this, he let the humans take care of ants. (Pause) But a beautiful world for children, and if I<\/i> had walked by, uh, and I\u2013 and\u2013 and Grace was sitting here and I\u2019d settin\u2019 over there in the States and I saw this\u2013 (pause, laughs), I love so much, I\u2019d say, God, I wouldn\u2019t l\u2013 I wouldn\u2019t bother him. A year and a half, he never mentions it, he doesn\u2019t know her, Maria\u2019s [Maria Katsaris] his mom in his mind, and is<\/i>, she is his mom. (pause) He never mentions her. A loving<\/i> parent would forget it. And then all the things she put him through. Jesus, the things he\u2019s told me from his heart, how sad<\/i> he was, he was so sad before he got over to this happy place that he hung off the balcony of our church when he was with her, and was gonna drop. At two years of age, said I wanna die. (pause) Because she\u2019d say things, very cruel<\/i> things to him. When she couldn\u2019t get me to marry her, and the next day she took up with this man, Smitty [Walter \u201cSmitty\u201d Jones] to try to goad me and hurt the child, \u2018cause\u2013 was always trying to hurt the child, hurt me. She knew she couldn\u2019t hurt me, because I\u2019m a zero, but she\u2019d try to hurt him, she\u2019d say ugly things, she\u2019d lock John in a garage and went in the next room and m\u2013 made all kinds of sounds and talked about having sex, so he could describe it all. He heard it all. It no use for me to not talk about it, because he talks about it, all the time, he\u2019s got it all down there, it\u2019ll never go out of his mind. (pause)<\/p>\n

But you see, that leaves a big burden on me, because to give him<\/i> up is not just like giving an\u2013 an\u2013 another child, or even in some of<\/i> your cases, your children aren\u2019t really here. Their\u2013 their minds are still not with it. John hates<\/i> capitalism. He talks about socialism every breath. He learned, I\u2013 I heard him talking, and a lot of other little kids, talk about capitalism, uh, how would the Amos boy [Martin Amos] do, Jesus Christ, how would he do with capitalism? All he knows is socialism. He talks socialism, he thinks socialism. Some of these kids would be dead<\/i>\u2013 (pause) and uh, so I\u2019ve made up mind long ago, I would not deliver him to her. And that\u2019s what\u2019s she\u2019s constantly trying to do, getting court orders, threatening me with this, that and the other, and trying to get racist judges to go along and uh\u2013 I said no<\/i>, just as I said no about uh, the Ponts girl [Donna Ponts], and I said no about the Tuppers [Janet Tupper, Larry Howard Tupper, Mary Elizabeth Tupper, Ruth Ann Tupper, Timothy Tupper], and I said no, I don\u2019t know, hell, how many nos I\u2019ve said already, Jesus Christ. But they still gonna push<\/i> me on that one, because they know that\u2019s close to the heart, so they\u2019ll<\/i> try it again, they\u2019ll<\/i> try it again. You know the government has made a firm stand, they\u2019ll<\/i> try it, (Clears throat) and Stoen is so\u2013 so wicked (Pause) and so embarrassed, I guess, that he had to ask me to save his wife from committin\u2019 treason. It would hurt him<\/i> more than it woulda hurt me. Uh, and uh, then\u2013 so, probably guilt-ridden, down deep in his mind that he was a transvestite runnin\u2019 with women\u2019s clothes on up and down the streets of Santa Rosa, that uh\u2013 I don\u2019t know whether he did it to get my attention or not, but it ended up doin\u2019 that, got my attention, and so, I had to go through hell to get him to be a normal<\/i> homosexual rather than an abnormal person wandering up and down the streets in women\u2019s clothing. And that was, uh\u2013 hell. I would\u2019ve rather died. So perhaps he can\u2019t stand that debt he owes me. Probably so. Nobody likes a debt. I find that most people \u2013 uh, [Tom] Partak, stay with it, if you can \u2013 Nobody likes a debt. They just don\u2019t like to be indebted to anyone. (Unintelligible sentence) They don\u2019t like it, don\u2019t wanna deal with it, umm-umm [No]. (Pause) I feel debts to some of you, (Stumbles over words) I love you, it doesn\u2019t make any difference if I loved you, uh, I\u2013 I love you, I feel debt, uh, that uh, when in the ins\u2013moments of insecurity, Rita McElvane gave me her son, and got her hands off and\u2013 so I could rear<\/i> him, \u2018cause she knew it was impossible in that family-oriented environment\u2013 here it don\u2019t make a damn bit of difference, she could be\u2013 she could be mama, I could be daddy, he can have four mommas, he can have five daddies. You follow me. But I feel debts<\/i> to people who have stood up, uh\u2013 And it really wasn\u2019t for me, nobody\u2019s ever done anything for me, \u2018cause you can\u2019t do anything for somebody who wants to die<\/i>. You really can\u2019t do<\/i> anything. I never would stomp over people, but most people, when they see, uh \u2013 shift, please \u2013 when they see a debt, (Clears throat) when they see a debt, it gets too heavy, so they start looking for every way out. And they\u2019ll find a little fault, they think, and they\u2019ll magnify it and magnify and magnify it, and they\u2019ll build it into a hated passion<\/i>, and then they really<\/i> can\u2019t\u2013 they can\u2019t put out Jim Jones\u2019 light. That\u2019s why they try so hard to kill him. (pause) You can\u2019t\u2013 once you know Jim Jones, you\u2019ve got to\u2013 something in you, basically, gotta know that this guy is (drawn out) unusually<\/i> committed to people. He cares beyond, uh, uh\u2013 After all, you just don\u2019t risk every day dying like I did today for the Olivers. You don\u2019t do<\/i> that. Nothing in<\/i> it for me to do<\/i> that. And then go on living, you can say, well, he wants to die, and so he does it, but I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t get to die, I have to work out to get to live<\/i> so they can get to live. You see what I\u2019m saying? And it\u2019s hard, hard, hard to get around that. You gotta say, Jim Jones really fuckin\u2019 cares<\/i>. And that\u2019s what\u2019s troubled Tim Stoen, that\u2019s why he\u2019s gonna keep on persisting. Yeah, I\u2019m on a\u2013 on a collision course with Jim Jones, and one day, I\u2013 he\u2019s the best man I\u2019ve ever known, the next day he\u2019s on collision course \u2018cause he don\u2019t wanna go to jail, too. That\u2019s his\u2013 his narcissistic ass. He don\u2019t wanna go to jail. So he sold out for a few bucks. And he wants to come over here<\/i> even, and uh, to try to goad me, he wants\u2013 he knows<\/i> that before I would give him\u2013 when he told me he was attracted and felt sexual feelings<\/i> to John, and I know<\/i> what she<\/i> does, she admitted to many<\/i> of us she felt sexual feelings, he did too to many of us. They had sexual<\/i> feelings, I mean, sublimation, sexual\u2013 you see him as a sex object, and I, I\u2013 no<\/i> way, no way, he knows I won\u2019t give him that child. And why he and Grace both push and push and push, they want me to die. Because maybe if I die, and even if John<\/i> dies, they won\u2019t have to remember anymore. That\u2019s how wicked<\/i> people are. It\u2019s the old feeling that, uh, out of sight, out of mind. I won\u2019t hear about him in the paper anymore, the dead tell no tales, put \u2018em six foot under, and I won\u2019t have to worry<\/i> about it anymore. I won\u2019t be haunted<\/i>. Their memory won\u2019t come back. Lotta people like that, there\u2019re few folk right here want me dead for that very reason. Try to kill me. Get me outta the way! Don\u2019t want to see him. Part of you hate<\/i> me, but another part of you can\u2019t help but admire me. You hate me because I require you be good. (Pause) And I don\u2019t know that anybody admires me, because you don\u2019t wanna make the sacrifice that it takes to be like me. But anyway, I\u2019m a trouble to you, and I wish you\u2019d all watch me right now, \u2018cause I get very eerie when you don\u2019t do it, I\u2013 not because I give a goddamn about me, but it\u2019s uh, it\u2019s\u2013 when you cannot respond to this kind of truth, uh, then there\u2019s something lacking in you, and that\u2013 that worries me, \u2018cause I gotta overcome that lack in you, \u2018cause you might hurt yourself or one of your comrades.<\/p>\n

(Pause) So at one stage, I thought, well\u2013 uh, what the hell will I do? Take the whole group over mine? No. I get on the radio, \u2018cause some of you get exactly what you want, some of you want to go back to your ol\u2019 world<\/i>. And you\u2013 you\u2013 you want to go back to your ol\u2019 world, you\u2019d like to go back to your ol\u2019 world. It\u2019s in there, it\u2019s in there, that ol\u2019 world is there. You don\u2019t want the principled life, you don\u2019t realize that you\u2019re gonna die<\/i> if you\u2019re unprincipled, and it\u2019s an awful unpleasant die\u2013 to die unprincipled \u2018cause you certainly<\/i> die alone when you don\u2019t have any principles. Wake up, Birdie, please, if you will.<\/p>\n

(Pause) Anyway\u2013 so I made up my mind, I\u2019ll get on the radio and I\u2019ll say, okay, folks, I\u2019ve had it, you people have pushed us\u2013 you tryin\u2019 to push us, and you\u2013 maybe it\u2019s an Oliver case or, whatever, you\u2013 you\u2013 you\u2013 you\u2013 you\u2019re finally\u2013 I won\u2019t be able to get the government to stand up to the United States, and, like I have every time now, and they\u2019ve backed\u2013 every time I backed them up the wall, and they\u2019ve always backed me. (Stumbles over words) \u2018cause it\u2019s always, they say\u2013 he\u2013 well, he made the remark, the foreign minister, he\u2019s like a tree, that\u2019s like standin\u2019 by the water, he won\u2019t be moved. I don\u2019t like<\/i> that, but he won\u2019t be moved. (pause) Said, I don\u2019t know how to handle<\/i> it, he didn\u2019t say he didn\u2019t like it, he said don\u2019t know how to handle it. And as sure as hell you don\u2019t know how to handle me, nobody<\/i> on earth knows how to handle me. Because when somebody\u2019s so principled, they\u2019re ready to die at the snap of a finger, you<\/i> don\u2019t know how to handle it. And that\u2019s what I want to build in you<\/i>, that same kind of character. Partak, can\u2019t you possibly<\/i> stay awake, you might come out of your self-centeredness.<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd<\/b>: (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Okay, okay, let him sit down. Uh\u2013 (pause) So I thought I\u2019ll get on it, uh, if I die a heroic death out here, fighting off somebody coming after the Olivers\u2013 I\u2019m just using that, I don\u2019t have to, because the Olivers are not goin\u2019 anywhere\u2013 (pause) Then half<\/i> the people gonna die, but half the people still be alive. (pause) Right?<\/p>\n

Voices in crowd<\/b>: Right.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I\u2019m just tellin\u2019 you one plan, I\u2019m not sayin\u2019 it\u2019s the right plan, I\u2019m just kinda giving you a plan, one of the plans that went through my mind \u2018cause I was in a hell of a crisis that you didn\u2019t know (Unintelligible word) \u2018cause I don\u2019t bother you with every crisis, I pass through \u2018em, and get uh\u2013 get the victory won, and don\u2019t worry you with it. And I thought, well, the best<\/i> thing for me to do is take care of mine and\u2013 and uh, suggest strongly to those that are grown, that are my kids\u2013 uh, well, I\u2019ll tell you the whole plan. Get on the radio, and I\u2019ll say, uh, (pause), do you want a bloodbath? (pause) I\u2019m talking to you now. I know that Jim Jones\u2019 too hot to handle, the press has made him a very hot<\/i> potato. And that\u2019s an advantage they got, they\u2019ve been a\u2013 the most attacks on me. Now please stay with me, f\u2013 fuckers, I\u2019ll watch ya close tonight. (pause)<\/p>\n

Jim Jones, too hot to handle. Too hot to really\u2013 to give to Russia, too hot to give to Cuba, bring them problems<\/i> in the international relationship, so I say, here, I want my people to go to Russia. Peace. If you don\u2019t, Russia, you haven\u2019t got the stamina that you say<\/i> you have. Cuba, you haven\u2019t got the stamina, you haven\u2019t got the courage, you haven\u2019t got fortitude, \u2018cause you\u2019re not gettin\u2019 in an explosive situation, you\u2019re gettin\u2019, uh\u2013 Jim Jones\u2019ll be out of the picture, \u2018cause I\u2019ll take care of Jim Jones and being that there\u2019s no way I can uh, do anything for John but take care of him myself, if you follow what I\u2019m saying. \u2018Cause I have no legal way, otherwise, except the backing of this government. (pause) I\u2019ll see<\/i> that he is not put over to a woman who said I hate him, as he told me the other night, and\u2013 throwed when he put\u2013 she shoved his hand in mine\u2013 you<\/i> have him, he\u2019s yours<\/i>. Well, he\u2019s mine. And uh\u2013 that\u2019s the way she feels, I\u2019ll gladly take care of him, he\u2019s beautiful, he\u2019s mine. I\u2019ll take care of him. But as I sai\u2013 I said I\u2019ll get on there, and I\u2019ll say now, you\u2013 I\u2019ll deliver you, release you from the hot potato of Jim Jones. And I would suicide<\/i> because, some of you, that would cau\u2013 uh, give you the out you want. Yeah, that\u2019d give you the out. \u2018Cause then if you go back to the States, uh, he\u2013 he committed suicide. Not realizing that I cared. \u2018Cause there\u2019d be some that wouldn\u2019t want to go<\/i> to Russia. \u2018Cause right down the night the goddamn shipload up here, and we\u2019d get our freighter<\/i> that we\u2019re bargaining on December 29th, take us all<\/i> to Russia if we want to go. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Uh\u2013 There\u2019d be some of you wouldn\u2019t wanna go. (pause) But if I were out of the picture<\/i>, then we\u2019d find out those who really<\/i> want to go back to the United States and those who are communists and really want to go where the communists are.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You see what I\u2019m saying? That\u2019s the kind of planning<\/i> it takes to think about, uh, to think about l\u2013 if you love<\/i>, if you care. Whereas if I met them on the front lines over the Olivers, uh, that way, I\u2019d get the Oliver kids to Russia, say you take them, or we\u2019ll meet you on the frontline. The Oliver boys don\u2019t want<\/i> to live with you, they want to be communist<\/i>. And you let them go, and I wanna see that every one of them are taken outta here. And I want Russians to come and get them. I wanna see it\u2019s done. Uh, a lot of implementing that I did\u2013 I\u2019m not\u2013 I won\u2019t go into here. Lot of implementing that would assure<\/i> that they\u2019d get where they\u2019re going. Then all the others that wanna come to America, let the Americans come in here and get \u2018em. Old people that act like they\u2019re\u2013 they\u2013 they don\u2019t\u2013 never have been happy here, never have been happy trying the socialist life\u2013 And there\u2019s some that wanna stay here and struggle it on, they could stay here, I\u2019m\u2013 but I\u2019m talking about a situation where the\u2013 the country was wavering, and it\u2019s small and it just couldn\u2019t face the resistance and the nuclear war wasn\u2019t close enough and it didn\u2019t look\u2013 of course, (Stumbles over words) if we miss a nuclear war, best place in the goddamned world, I mean, if a nuclear war comes, no nuclear war will ever struck\u2013 strike here, no radiation and you\u2019ve got absolute the best places, as all your survivor handbooks said\u2013 tell you\u2013 best<\/i> place in the world to be lost. (pause) Gotta be lost? Make it down in South America. Nuclear war? Best place in the world. Coming Ice Age? Best place in the world. (pause) Best place in the world in term\u2013 \u2018cause you don\u2019t get cold. It\u2019s awful for old people to get cold, I read you a news article the other night\u2013 wake that person back up there, now, they\u2019re asleep back there. (pause) No wonder you p\u2013 uh, somebody ask you a question, you don\u2019t stay awake.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Who\u2013 who got smart ass with me, I wasn\u2019t talking to you, I was talking to Brother Moton. Who was the smart ass?<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, I\u2019m not talking to you<\/i>, so\u2013<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, I bet if I asked you what I was, what I was say\u2013 what I was saying, some of you wouldn\u2019t be able to tell me what the hell I was sayin\u2019, even if you say you aren\u2019t sleepin\u2019. (pause) So I could get<\/i> those by taking care of the one responsibility I\u2019ve got, because my older ones, if they didn\u2019t want to go on to Russia, if they didn\u2019t want to be communists, they didn\u2019t feel like the world be safe without Father\u2013 they could, say, Father, Dad, I want to go with you. And I say, okay. I recommend you try<\/i> it, \u2018cause you\u2019ve got your mind, you got your future. Soviets are gonna win<\/i>. Communism\u2019s gonna win. But Jim Jones is a hot potato, the press has smeared him and smeared him and smeared him, but in that, there\u2019s a great advantage<\/i>. They smeared<\/i> him<\/i>, but they\u2019ve not smeared too many others. So you are just decent, ordinary people. Ordinary people that they\u2019d have to take<\/i> under those circumstances. They wouldn\u2019t be yielding to a hostage, because I wouldn\u2019t be holding anybody hostage. Only myself<\/i>. (pause) Or saying, if you don\u2019t<\/i> do decently by our people and give them a chance to freedom, then I have no choice but to meet you on the front lines and we\u2013 we\u2019ll stand here, and dare<\/i> you to cross them. And if you do<\/i> cross, we will die.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Stirs, murmurs in agreement)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Or the most\u2013 great proportion of us would die<\/i>. But I\u2013 you see\u2013 so that\u2019s the kind of alternatives I\u2019ve had\u2013 had to consider. That way, the\u2013 the true communists could get on to peace and\u2013 if, if (Stumbles over words) in that situation, but I\u2019m saying, if it were,<\/i> I\u2019m not, I\u2019m not facing that situation, but that\u2019s the situation that could happen, goddamnit! It dear\u2013 it nearly did! And I never<\/i> wanna be caught like I was caught that<\/i> night, not knowing whether to go back in Dorm Three or Four, Four\u2013 Five, or get on a fuckin\u2019 boat and you\u2019d get on the goddamned boat when I finally try to give people to life, and we couldn\u2019t get a clearance into Cuba because there hadn\u2019t been no plans<\/i> laid, everybody fuckin\u2019 around. I knew this was gonna happen. And I\u2019d asked for plans to be laid, but people had dilly<\/i>-dallied. And we didn\u2019t have anything cleared in Cuba. The people were working hard<\/i>, some of the people, that\u2019re\u2013 they\u2019re here now\u2013 were working hard<\/i> to open doors, but Jesus Christ, you don\u2019t open doors in 24 hours. And we didn\u2019t have any time<\/i>. Time was running out<\/i> on us, sons of bitches were all around<\/i> us! So we made up our mind, we, uh\u2013 we set here and some of you had to go through it, fuck, you\u2019d be better people than you\u2019d\u2013 (Unintelligible word) I had to stand out there in that yard and decide, and have to\u2013 have to talk, how we gonna do it and how we gonna get rid of all of our bodies and how we\u2019re gonna go\u2013 go together so there won\u2019t be nobody left<\/i>. You oughta had to go through<\/i> it, it might\u2019ve done something for you.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Calls out)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Then we\u2019ll figure\u2013 well, shit<\/i>\u2013 if there\u2019s a chance<\/i> at life, we gotta take<\/i> that chance, uh, to\u2013 to do something<\/i> for communism, not just lay down here and die<\/i>. Just lay down, roll over and play it like Rover<\/i>. So I had my boat<\/i>, and the seaman said you cannot do anything with the Cudjoe<\/i>, it will not take all of our people. (pause) Forty-five tons, or forty-seven tons at the maximum. Charlie and I worried over that goddamned thing and we finally got down to the square foot and decided, well, you can<\/i> put the bodies on there. A little medical supplies, but it won\u2019t take anything more and then you gonna be, you\u2019ll really gonna be chancing it down the river, but at least it was a chance<\/i>\u2013 and if we sunk, son of a bitch, drowning, they say, is one of the easiest ways in the world to die. You just\u2013 I nearly drowned once, trying to save somebody\u2019s life, I nearly drowned. You often (short laugh) drown that way. But I\u2013 I nearly drowned, and (draws out) oh how peaceful that was, as I floated down to the bottom. It\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013 you just\u2013 just\u2013 numbing<\/i>, kind of sleepy sensation. (pause, quietens) Some of you people get so fuckin\u2019 nervous every time I talk about death\u2013<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You\u2019ve been brainwashed, you\u2019ve been brainwashed. Capitalists have uh\u2013 capitalists have made you robots<\/i>! They\u2019d made you robots<\/i>. They teach you (low voice) don\u2019t\u2013 death, death is the enemy, death is the enemy, so that you will work your ass off three<\/i> score and ten years, you\u2019ll work just like a goddamned little old slave, you\u2019ll work three<\/i> score and ten years, and you\u2019ll never never never never never never die, because it\u2019s\u2013 Death is the enemy. And all that\u2013 all that was your enemy was the work<\/i> you were doin\u2019 in that capitalist state, (calls out) getting up, you were dyin\u2019 every day, gettin\u2019 up and workin\u2019 all day and comin\u2019 home and fallin\u2019 in your goddamned bed and drag your ass out every day and couldn\u2019t pay for your house and barely could pay your food and couldn\u2019t afford it if you had a major operation, you\u2019da had to die<\/i> \u2018cause you couldn\u2019t afford it.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>If you\u2019d had some incurable eye disease, there\u2019s no way in the fucking world<\/i> you coulda paid the bill. You were dying all the time, them fuckers tellin\u2019 you, death<\/i> is your last enemy, Christian preacher sayin\u2019 (adopts tone of preacher) death, death, some death, gotta overcome death, we gotta have victory over death, the final enemy\u2013 death! (Normal tone) And they find the enemy was birth<\/i>!<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(calls out) The Chinese had that years ago when they said, rejoice<\/i> when you die and cry<\/i> when you\u2019re born!<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>And we all called them heathen, we went over there with the Bible tryin\u2019 to convert those fools. We said they were idiots, and we<\/i> were the fools. The Chinese had it. They\u2013 they were wise. Said rejoice<\/i> at the outgoin\u2019, cry at the incomin\u2019. (pause) But when you die<\/i>, baby, you are asleep. At least you got a spell and you\u2019ve got a chance, Russian roulette, maybe one out of five, you\u2019ll end up in a little better shit than you\u2019re in now, unless you commit suicide<\/i>. (pause) At least there\u2019s a spare time, I know it would\u2013 one cycle of my<\/i> life, I know I\u2019d\u2013 at least I\u2019d had a few years<\/i> in between, shit! (pause) I got ten years of rest<\/i> somewhere, afore they run me through\u2013 When they run me through with Lenin and I come back this time<\/i>, fuck, I le\u2013 I rested at least ten<\/i> years. I think Lenin, uh, went out at \u201822 and I didn\u2019t come back \u2018til \u201831, I was damn near ten years. Somewhere I didn\u2019t know<\/i> anything. (pause) I\u2019d like to have nine years rest. (pause) (Mumbles) Quiet, quiet. (Normal tone) And I hope it\u2019s more long than that. I\u2019d like to have about, uh, nine billion light<\/i> years of rest. And I\u2019d settle with joy and really dance on my nose<\/i> if they promised me I could have eternity<\/i> of knowing nothing, to just go down and die like a worm and be stomped on, and that\u2019d be it. But don\u2019t commit suicide, \u2018cause you will make a fuckin\u2019 mistake, you\u2019ll be back. (pause) \u2018Cause I seen \u2018em come back. (pause)<\/p>\n

Now, what was I saying? (pause) Talkin\u2019 about death. You sure you have to piss now, \u2018cause I want you to think about death<\/i>. Dyin\u2019<\/i>! Tongue<\/i> hangin\u2019 out. Chokin\u2019<\/i> (makes choking noises). (long pause) I\u2013 I do, I do, I do, I do, should oughta be, should oughta be. Too serious about the fuckin\u2019 subject. (pause) Get all nervous. (Stumbles over words) Go to sleep and then hide down, getting\u2019 deep\u2013 deeper down that coat, gettin\u2019 down the coat. (Calls out) You\u2019re gonna die someday, honey! You old bitch, you\u2019re gonna die!<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(pause) (calls out) If you don\u2019t die, old bitch, alone\u2013 Lois is gonna get something on and blow her up and you, too!<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/b> (Cheers)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Look how they just check ya out. Check out. They ain\u2019t asleep, hell no, they ain\u2019t asleep, they are (emphasized) closed minds! (Imitates preacher) I came to give you life and life more abundantly!<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You gone believe it, even though you look like you\u2019re gettin\u2019 stooped and stooped and stooped and (Unintelligible word), we\u2019ll have to die or you gonna fall in<\/i> a grave, keep a-stoopin\u2019.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Just watch, folk, they just don\u2019t wanna face reality. And the capitalists, (Unintelligible word)\u2013 well, they wanted to work your ass and then retire you at 65, they don\u2019t give a shit after 65. It used to be 72. And they say, awwwww, you gotta work, and it\u2019s bless\u2013 blessed to work, you know, three score and ten\u2013 Man\u2019s life\u2019s three score and ten. Work out there for that fuckin\u2019 [Henry] Ford, work<\/i> for [John D.] Rockefeller, work for the Chrysler corporation, work<\/i>, you son of a bitch, \u2018cause when you die<\/i>, you going to Glory Land<\/i>! And it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s (Stumbles over words) any\u2013 anybody oughta had more sense than be taken in by that shit, but we got took in by that shit.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/b> (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Ford didn\u2019t believe in no\u2013 he didn\u2019t believe in no uh, afterlife, he didn\u2019t believe in no Heaven\u2013 He circulated Bibles to get people to believe in it. He said\u2013 he said, what will they give a million dollars of\u2013 of Bibles one year, they said, why you do that, Ford? You don\u2019t ever do anything for anybody. He said it\u2019s nigger<\/i> control. (pause) Sure is, it\u2019s only thing that ever would\u2019ve controlled us niggers, was to give us that Bible and tell us (calls out, imitating preacher) by and by! When the mornin\u2019<\/i> comes \u2013 Hey! \u2013 when all the saints are gathered home. Rockefeller sit back there and just laugh \u2013 ha ha ha \u2013 look at \u2018em fool niggers, a ha ha ha ha.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/b> (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(imitating preacher) You got shoes, and I got shoes! All of God\u2019s children got shoes! (end of imitation) Walk around barefooted, damn bunions, sores \u2018tween your toes, couldn\u2019t hardly walk, but\u2013 (preacher voice, loud) by and by, you got shoes, I got shoes, and all God\u2019s chil\u2013 (end of word cut off). (normal tone) We believe that shit until Jim Jones come along. Some of you don\u2019t like to admit it, but you believe that shit \u2018til Jim Jones come along.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/b> (Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Cries out) I know there\u2019ll be fifty people said it, I knew it the whole time, I knew it afore Jim Jones come along. You damn liar, you didn\u2019t, \u2018cause you singin\u2019 this fuckin\u2019 song.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Cries out) You were singin\u2019 \u201cSwing (draws out word) low, sweet chariot.\u201d You couldn\u2019t get a fuckin\u2019 ride in a Model-T Ford, and you\u2019re talkin\u2019 about a chariot<\/i> gonna swing low for you.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Responds during long pause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Moderates, then builds) Talkin\u2019 \u2018bout death. Sweet death, sweet<\/i> death, when you die a revolutionary death, it\u2019s sweet<\/i> death. When you throw your life away for nothing, that\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s counter<\/i>-revolutionary, that\u2019s a suicide that you pay a price<\/i> for, you sure as hell<\/i> will come back. When you give your life for a cause<\/i>, and know that you\u2019ve done all can to live and you have<\/i> to die and you give it right<\/i> and think it through well<\/i>! That\u2019s sweet death. (calms) And it\u2019s hard to find a revolutionary death, \u2018cause it isn\u2019t easy, you gotta be careful, \u2018cause it\u2019s easy sometimes to die<\/i> by a million times than it is to live. (pause) But that\u2019s how I would\u2019ve done it on that occasion. I\u2019da got all of the ones who wanted to go to Russia and then I\u2019da taken care to see that nobody got a hold of my<\/i> child. If Russia\u2019d take<\/i> him, I\u2019da said yes, there\u2019s your chance now, son. There\u2019s your chance. But there\u2019d be no legal papers<\/i> for Russia to take him, none at all. So, (unintelligible) no, no, all of you got legal papers, everybody\u2019s got legal papers but mine\u2013 they\u2019ve been revoked. (pause) Those fuckin\u2019 killers. They knew<\/i> they were doin\u2019 it. They hoped<\/i> they could do it. They didn\u2019t count on this government to stand behind me. They revoked<\/i> all the papers so that\u2013 that they could assure<\/i> that my son, Tim Stoen and Grace, did that so they could kill<\/i> my son, and I won\u2019t forget that. (pause) They revoked<\/i> the papers, sealed<\/i> \u2018em. You all got papers, you could go to Russia, not a soul here couldn\u2019t go to Russia. You see what I\u2019m sayin\u2019? (Voice rises) Russia might be brave enough to take him, and I\u2019d say take him! Then, goddammit, nobody has to worry \u2018bout me. I\u2019ll be here and I\u2019ll\u2013 I\u2019ll be here\u2013 nice<\/i>, if you take my people, let \u2018em go where they want to. Take the fuckers back there to America, that believe in immortality and believe in the Peace<\/i> Mission. Take \u2018em back that believe in immortality and Pentacostalism. Take \u2018em back that believe in McDonald hamburgers and TV. Take \u2018em! Take \u2018em, take \u2018em.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Response)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I love \u2018em enough to let \u2018em live the way they wanna live, even though I know it\u2019s a cursed<\/i> way to live, I love \u2018em enough to let \u2018em go. Take<\/i> \u2018em. You\u2013 you, fucker\u2013 you write your mother, you write your mother, we\u2019ll get the letter all written up, you write and tell her, send me the airplane ticket, \u2018cause I\u2019m tired<\/i>. You go where in the hell you wanna go. Die<\/i> the way you want to die, \u2018cause I love you. Tired of tryin\u2019 to argue people what\u2019s right. You don\u2019t know what\u2019s right, fuck<\/i> you! (pause)<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Applause and response) (pause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>So write the letter. (pause) You better get my approval afore you try to do anything, you know. (pause) Say, what\u2019ll they do, you go back and cause trouble\u2013 no, he won\u2019t. Now when I<\/i> say write the letter, he won\u2019t go back and cause trouble \u2018cause [if] he does!<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Response) (pause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>You see, I say don\u2019t go back \u2018til all of our people here, because they got a reason<\/i> for that, \u2018cause most of ya, 99 percent of you, will be a shithead<\/i> when you do. (pause) You lie<\/i>, \u2018cause you won\u2019t be able to live with your conscience<\/i>. You\u2019ll lie<\/i>! (voice rises) You\u2019ll try to cause harm to us \u2018cause you wanna put our light<\/i> out, you wanna curse the light<\/i>, you don\u2019t want the light to still be lightin\u2019 in your mind, because when you\u2019re sittin\u2019 there with all those racists and doin\u2019 your bodyguard work and tryin\u2019 to keep the white man\u2019s cars protected and so forth, you\u2019re gonna feel dirty inside, and you\u2013 you\u2019ll finally lie<\/i> because they\u2019ll come down on your ass, and say, why did you associate with Jim Jones so long?<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Murmurs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Why<\/i> was you over there all that time, why\u2019d you go<\/i> in the first place, nobody put<\/i> you on that fuckin\u2019 plane.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Response)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>All these people said they\u2019re against their will, against their will, against their will. I was over here first, and nine hundred folk followed<\/i> me! Fuck<\/i>! They\u2013 they\u2013 Nobody put a gun<\/i> in their ass!<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Loud response)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Nobody put a gun in his<\/i> ass. He came on his own. But you go back and tell some shit<\/i>, somebody put a gun in your ass.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Response) (pause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Voice moderates, then builds) So, I just don\u2019t want to waste my energy having to worry about folk back there, when we can just all get the folk here and then let you go on your own when we get<\/i> here. (pause) But I love you enough to let ya do what the hell you wanna do. And then, when I got through, now if you do right and let \u2018em all get where they\u2019re gonna go and\u2013 Don\u2019t do \u2018em any harm, \u2018cause I know how the CIA plays their ballgame. Now I can\u2019t guarantee you for when you go to America nothing, (stumbles over words) the best I can do would be just get you to America, \u2018cause shit, they may decide to kill ya when you go there, that\u2019s your choice, \u2018cause I\u2019d have either Russia for ya, or I\u2019d have Cuba for ya, or I\u2019d have America. If you\u2019re foolish enough to choose America, you have to ride on your own fucking load, your ass will have to be on your own<\/i> bottom, you\u2019ll have to ride on your own<\/i> bottom when I die, because I ain\u2019t responsible for you when you hit America. (pause) I took ya outta that<\/i> swamp, so when you get back<\/i> in that swamp, don\u2019t cry to me<\/i>, (Moderates) because I\u2019ll say if you get \u2018em all where they wanna go\u2013 (pause) and they\u2019re all done right, I\u2019ll be here waitin\u2019 on ya. And you can take me and make mockery of me, you can hang me up, you can do whatever in the fuck you want to. You can send me back to America and let them laugh<\/i> as I go by and jeer<\/i>. (pause) And put me in jail for fifty years and torture me. (pause) Just as long as you do right for my people. (Cries out) But if you don\u2019t, (voice drops) it\u2019ll take several of ya to get me when you come. See my rationale, you see my reasoning? (pause) Because you\u2019re loved more, you see, some of ya\u2013 I wouldn\u2019t commit suicide in that circumstance, I wouldn\u2019t do it because the people\u2013 Well, it\u2019d be dishonorable<\/i>. Yes, it would be dishonorable, unless you were trying to get something done that would save your people<\/i>. Say what would you do<\/i>? Ain\u2019t nothing you could<\/i> do. I\u2019d offer to go back to jail, that\u2019d be fine, I\u2019d do that<\/i>, I\u2019d do that<\/i> before suicide. Shit, I\u2019d tell\u2013 I\u2019ll go to America. If you want me to go to America, whatever in the hell you want me do, \u2018cause there\u2019s some of \u2018em wouldn\u2019t even want me to get to America. (pause) Mmmm-mmm [No]. They\u2019d be afraid of me if I was\u2013 to take me to America in chains<\/i>! I remember when they put me in jail, they chained me to a fucking bar<\/i> because they was afraid the bars<\/i> wouldn\u2019t hold me. (pause) So I say, I\u2019ll<\/i> let ya take me back there, and you can make fun of me if you want to, \u2018cause everybody hates me, and I\u2013 I represent all the things that you, uh, know you oughta be and aren\u2019t\u2013 But I wouldn\u2019t put it to them that way. I\u2019d say, I\u2019ll let you do with me what you will<\/i>, do with me what you will<\/i>. Nobody takes my life, but I lay down my life, as somebody said long ago. But if they didn\u2019t, I\u2019d just say I\u2019ll be here peacefully<\/i>, or I\u2019ll be here somewhat uh, vigorously<\/i>, depending upon your mood. Now, have I given you some ideas about how you might decide how to die? (pause)<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Response)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Hmmm? You understand what I just said. Have anybody got any question on what I just said. (long pause) Well, I\u2019m sure<\/i> you must have. How many know what I said? (pause) Okay. What will be our stand<\/i> if they ever come in here and say, uh\u2013 Yes, uh, sweetheart. (Clears throat) Getting down to the brass tacks now, so we can close. (pause) I only laid that out so I could get your mind<\/i> stirred up.<\/p>\n

Woman 2: <\/b>(takes microphone, inaudible for beginning of sentence) \u2013How to go to these other places. Then<\/i> what? Could I stay with you?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Do ya wanna die with me? Sure. Why not? Hell, yes. You think I\u2019d make<\/i> you leave me?<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd<\/b>: (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Then we\u2019ll let our blood flow into the ground. As hard<\/i> as that would be to<\/i> us because the thing that you instinctively want to do to take somebody with<\/i> you. But if I can save<\/i> seven hundred<\/i> of you, shit<\/i>, I don\u2019t have the right to do what I wanna do. I\u2019d like to wrap myself up with dynamite and run into one of the fuckin\u2019 Nazi headquarters or the CIA branch and blow the motherfuckers up<\/i>, that\u2019s what I\u2019d like<\/i> to do. But I\u2013 (Stumbles over words) if me doing what I<\/i> wanted to do would endanger eight hundred of you<\/i>, I got no right to do that. That\u2019s communism, the greatest good to the greatest number<\/i>! You gotta (draws out word) always think what\u2019s the greatest good to the greatest number. But lemme tell you, I\u2019ll give some of you a hard argument. Some of you seniors, I wouldn\u2019t. \u2018Cause the old people, it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s rough, it\u2019s rough. Change is rough. I mean, I gave you the newscasts \u2013 I didn\u2019t finish \u2013 where the temperature even drops to 65. It can throw old people into shock and all kinds of bodily disorders and kill<\/i> them. This is the best climate in the world for old people. Older people live longer, do better, with a high temperature. I read the\u2013 how many heard the news, I\u2013 I read it over to you, American weather, and uh\u2013 and uh\u2013 medical report. They even have dropped to 65 degrees temperature, that the president\u2019s asking everybody \u2013 he\u2019s demanding<\/i>, it\u2019s a new law \u2013 that if you live in public housing, you\u2013 you can not have your thermostat over 65, and the U.S. Health Department said, what\u2019s he\u2019s doing is killing<\/i> old people all over the United States. (pause) Yeah, he\u2019s heating his swimming pool, the son-of-a-bitch is, [Jimmy] Carter is, but he\u2019s demanding<\/i> that it\u2019s against the law, anybody keeps the temperature above 65 can be arrested in public housing. That\u2019s in Washington, that\u2019s the\u2013 \u2018cause the oil shortage and the big cold winter comin\u2019 again. And the doctors all shout, if you do<\/i> it, you\u2019re killin\u2019 old people, because they can\u2019t take 65 degrees. Can\u2019t take<\/i> it, and they don\u2019t give a fuck. What\u2019d he give a fuck about old people. White or black, he don\u2019t give a fuck. Okay, now\u2013 uh, what we\u2019re gonna do<\/i>, if, uh, tomorrow, they say, well, that we\u2013 we\u2013 we\u2013 we\u2019ve backed up<\/i> on that. Now\u2013 Now don\u2019t worry, \u2018cause I\u2019ll tell you the shit truth, I\u2019ll tell ya the bad news with the good news. Right now they let me do as exactly what I said. I won\u2019t let the Oliver family in here, not because it\u2019s me<\/i>, \u2018cause I don\u2019t give a shit if they come in, or don\u2019t<\/i> come in. It\u2019s their kids<\/i> that don\u2019t want them in here. And if they let \u2018em in here, we got every fucker coming through here, night and day, that (Stumbles over words) is an enemy of us, comin\u2019 through. We can\u2019t let enemies run in and out of here.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Murmurs agreement)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Let\u2019s say they did not<\/i>\u2013 Say, what would we do, what would we do, (more emphatic) what would we do, say that the Olivers<\/i>\u2013 the government says I can\u2013 we can\u2019t take the pressure because the United States is sayin\u2019 if you don\u2019t let the Olivers come in this part of the uh, country uh, then we won\u2019t let Guyanese go into California. And they could do it. United States wicked.<\/p>\n

(pause, woman talking indistinctly in background)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I don\u2019t think<\/i> it\u2019ll do it, because I don\u2019t think it wants\u2013 it hadn\u2019t got enough troops<\/i>. That\u2019s one good thing, capitalism is crippled, it\u2019s dying, it\u2019s in the senile<\/i> stage, the senile stage of monopoly capitalism, it\u2019s getting (draws out word) old, honey\u2013 and it ain\u2019t got no kids that like it anymore. (pause) You know, you\u2013 you\u2013 your dad may kid you, but when he gets to be a grandpa, his grandchildren can sure see through the fucker.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Murmurs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>And America\u2019s a granddaddy now and people seen how mean<\/i> that old fucker\u2019s been.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What I like about Lisa Layton the other day, she\u2019s telling me about the Jewish experience, I hope someday she\u2019ll stand up and tell the testimony, maybe next Peoples Rally, just tell it how it was, instead of makin\u2019 herself look like a heroine, and how\u2013 how she flirted with tryin\u2019 to\u2013 because every Jew tried to be a N\u2013 a Nazi, every Jew practically tried to be a Christian. They wanted to get baptized all over the fuckin\u2019 place. Just like black folk in here\u2013 they\u2013 they\u2013 why, hell you, (Stumbles over words) try to talk, walk, walk\u2013 talk\u2013 and you, you try to get<\/i> white, you get nervous<\/i> in the sun. I had folks say, oooh, oooh, there\u2019s a lotta sun over here (imitating members, high voice) there be a lot of sun over here, I\u2019ll get dark<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I get too black. We heard it every day, we heard it every day. And for\u2013 hell, we got black folk who\u2019ll not drink coffee. \u2018cause they\u2019re afraid they\u2019ll get too black.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> And it\u2019s pitiful, and she told what the\u2013 what had happened to her until finally she couldn\u2019t stand that anymore<\/i>, she couldn\u2019t take<\/i> that anymore. And she refused to stand up in the classroom and say \u201cHeil Hitler.\u201d And then the nightmare began. But her daddy, a Jew, standin\u2019 right before the radio, sayin\u2019 \u201cUh, he\u2019s\u2013 he\u2019s right on that.\u201d Here\u2019s Hitler, a Nazi, he\u2019s gonna murder the Jews, it\u2019s right in his goddamn writings, he\u2019s gonna do away with the Jews, anybody could read it. And it (imitates voice) you know, Hitler\u2019s right on that, it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s a good point he makes there. (normal tone) And she said about her dad, when he, (Stumbles over words) he\u2019s just a self-centered old man. (Voice rises) Well, anybody\u2019s that got a head knows America<\/i> is a self-centered (draws out word) old man, it\u2019s senile<\/i>, and a lot of its kids are saying, \u201cFuck<\/i> you, Uncle Sam, we ain\u2019t goin\u2019<\/i> over to Guyana to help you fight no war over there, we ain\u2019t goin\u2019 to Angola\u201d \u2013 and proved it, they didn\u2019t go \u2013 \u201cWe are not goin\u2019<\/i> to no more Vietnams, we see you are a fuckin\u2019 mean old man, and we don\u2019t like you, Uncle Sam.\u201d<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (applause, cheers)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Moderates, then builds throughout) It\u2019s all right, you can clap tonight, I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m getting\u2019 my insulin out. (laughs) Nothing so liberating as thoughts<\/i> of death. I don\u2019t know about you, but when I get really liberated when I can think about death, even though I know I ain\u2019t gonna get the privilege to do it, it just liberates<\/i> me! Oh<\/i>, Jesus! Some of you get worried<\/i>, and you get \u2018fraid<\/i>, and when I think I get a chance to die<\/i>, or my insulin gets normal<\/i> and my blood pressure gets normal<\/i> and my heart bea\u2013 beats soundly,<\/i> and I feel like I hear the trumpets soundin\u2019<\/i> ho, ho! Death is callin\u2019<\/i>!<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Reacts)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Calls out) Oh, sweet death. (pause) (Moderates) See\u2013 (Stumbles over words) you know, (Stumbles over words) brainwashed.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Reacts)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>If I\u2019da said \u201csweet life!\u201d, you\u2019d say, \u201coh, glory!\u201d<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (voice rises) Gonna live on<\/i>, honey, you\u2019re gonna have immortality, and you used to jump up and down and go \u201cGlory!\u201d, what the fuck you would you want\u2013 There ain\u2019t no more worse curse on earth than have to live for all your life and walk on this planet all your life in the same body! Shit. You want me to do that for you, some of you fools.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Reacts, then applause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Moderates) Some of you want to see it stopped in your children, that\u2019s beautiful. And we\u2019re gonna keep on tryin\u2019 to stop it so that death<\/i> leaves us. So the pain<\/i> of death\u2013 \u2018cause what makes death so miserable is it\u2019s a fuckin\u2019 world filled with capitalist<\/i> human, which are lower than animals, and then nobody can have no peace<\/i>. Life would be beautiful, if it wasn\u2019t for all the fuckin\u2019 goddamn miserable capitalists<\/i> around, bloodsuckin\u2019 sons-of-bitches, and you can\u2019t even go to sleep, even when you try to build a communist society, where (Unintelligible word) his father is, there\u2019s always some fucker stealing<\/i>\u2013<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Murmurs agreement)<\/p>\n

Jones: \u2013<\/b>or some fucker tryin\u2019 do you in, or some fucker tryin\u2019 to put a little somethin\u2019 in the food<\/i>, or some fucker raisin\u2019 all kind of hell because there\u2019s a hair in their soup<\/i>\u2013<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Be quiet about that, \u2018cause that happened tonight.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Reacts)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028 \u2018Bout time we can get a night off, \u2018bout time we can get a night off. \u2018Bout the time<\/i> we can a night off, somebody goes and creates a lot of shit<\/i>, and we have to have an outdoor meeting. (pause) That\u2019s the only reason death is, uh\u2013 life is such a miserable. And then, if you do<\/i> get a little rest, son\u2013 sooner or later, cancer<\/i> hits you. (pause) Or you get to go blind<\/i>. (pause) You know what I\u2019m talkin\u2019.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Murmurs agreement)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I guess some of you brothers have cancer, you know, by your balls<\/i> start to fallin\u2019 out. One hung low. Your vagina droops<\/i>\u2013<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Reacts, laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2013And your breasts draws in or out<\/i>. And somebody rejects you. Because it\u2019s a capitalist<\/i> world that doesn\u2019t know what beauty is, it judges things by outward appearance instead of the inward appearance. Looks on the outward appearance instead of the heart. And that\u2019s miserable. Who in the hell wanna live in a world like that? But we as communists must fight on, and fight on, until we eliminate<\/i> the pain, and the dis\u2013 the inequities and the disorder, and \u2013 you may go the restroom \u2013 and all the trouble and all the pain<\/i> and cancer<\/i>, if we\u2019d put all the money that these fuckin\u2019 rats are putting out to bomb children and kill off our African brothers and sisters, they could kill<\/i>\u2013 they could whip<\/i> cancer in five<\/i> days. They could wipe<\/i> it out, medically speaking. But that\u2019s what makes death so beautiful and life so miserable, because we live in a capitalist world. And the fuckin\u2019 CIA is at our neck, even when you get in a socialist<\/i> world, unless you can get all the way to Russia. (long pause)<\/p>\n

Now. If tomorrow the government says, \u201cI can\u2019t take it,\u201d we\u2019re gonna\u2013 they\u2019re gonna come in here for the Olivers. They\u2019re gonna come in here with a court order for the Olivers. Whatcha gonna do?<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Reacts)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2028Think it through<\/i>! Think it through. (pause) Somebody give me a creative thought. (Clears throat) Hmmmm?<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd<\/b>: (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yeah, that\u2019s a\u2013 that\u2019s a good beginning, now, what a\u2013 what\u2013 what more would you do then? Etta [Thompson]? (pause)<\/p>\n

Etta<\/b>: (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, we\u2019re closer to Russia than we were when we\u2013 (laughs) You fucker\u2013 you fuckers are lucky. We didn\u2019t have Russia that night. (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028 That night we didn\u2019t have nothing but a goddamn Cudjoe<\/i> and twenty-five (pause) old people, uh, twenty-two<\/i> of which were assholes.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> All right, all right. \u2018Cause we got on that boat and we had it (draws out) all square-foot measured out, and said don\u2019t take a thing, I begged, I was so tired, six days and seven nights or seven days and six nights and no sleep, goddammit I was walking around like I had to almost hold up my eyeballs, my eyelids with\u2013 with, uh\u2013 if I coulda found<\/i> \u2018em, I\u2019da used a\u2013 a goddamn toothpick<\/i> to hold up my eyelids. (Voice rises throughout) And I said, please<\/i> don\u2019t take anything \u2013 nothin\u2019<\/i>! \u2013 because we need it for medicine<\/i>, we need uh, the, the uh, concentrated Carnation milk, the food<\/i> so we can get ourselves to Cuba, and what the fuck you think the son-bitchin\u2019 old people wrap themselves around with shit until they\u2013 we didn\u2019t get twenty-five on the boat \u2018til it throwed two off and\u2013 down in the deep, down in the fuckin\u2019 deep, and broke hips and\u2013 and only me that they didn\u2019t drown, they found \u2018em down in that fuckin\u2019 water. Twenty-five, of which twenty of them were so fuckin\u2019 selfish, they wrapped themselves to shit, and we had to give the trip up.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Reacts)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> And I think that was miserable. And the same fuckers, some of \u2018em\u2019d do it again.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Reacts)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028(Pause) They waited\u2013 We said \u201cDon\u2019t go back and get anything, don\u2019t go back to your house.\u201d We were living through proverbs<\/i>! We were fortunate<\/i> to live the very things we used to preach<\/i> about. Don\u2019t go back, don\u2019t look back! And if son-of-a-bitchin\u2019 people didn\u2019t run<\/i> back and get something, and risk their very lives. Just a miracle, miracle, miracle that we made it through. (Clears throat) (pause)<\/p>\n

(Voice moderates) I got on that radio and screamed and screamed and screamed, and Russia\u2013 and got ahold of some people and I said goddamnit, we\u2019re gonna die<\/i> out here. I got on the army band, it\u2019s against the law, you can go to the j\u2013 uh, prison for five years, some man, colonel, or some of\u2013 officer come on, I\u2019m so and so and so and officer, I said, I don\u2019t give a damn who<\/i> you are. He said you are violatin\u2019 the law<\/i>. This is the army band. I said it\u2019s my<\/i> band now, I\u2019m talkin\u2019<\/i>!<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Reacts, applauds)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> It scared him so there so many Americans, they always obey every law, don\u2019t make a difference whether the law\u2019s wro\u2013 makes any sense or not, that says black people just drink out of, uh, this fountain or not go to this toilet, the\u2013 whatever (deep, growling voice) the law, the law, the law. I\u2013 I obey the law, the law, the law. Fuckin\u2019 laws are all against black people. (Normal tone) I<\/i> don\u2019t give a fuck about no army band. They bombed all the poor people the world, what the fuck I give a damn \u2018bout the army band. He says, \u201cyou go to jail five year\u2013\u201d I don\u2019t give a goddamn, get out my way, I\u2019m talkin\u2019<\/i>! And I\u2019m tellin\u2019 you, they shut up, and then nobody bothered me thereafter. I talked on that radio \u2018til my voice was frog, more hoarse than this\u2013 hoarse than this, and I said now, huh, somebody better listen<\/i>, and we\u2019re going to be taken out<\/i> of this mess or we\u2019re all gone die<\/i>! I said somebody give us a home<\/i>, and we ain\u2019t a\u2013 goin\u2019 unless they all go together, somebody hear us, we are gonna die<\/i> here, goddammit! I mean, I used four-letter words, and I used everything else<\/i> under the sun. Most of it was sound logic, but I (draws out word) sure made a hell of a lot of noise. Next day, Russia got a hold of\u2013 (Stumbles over words) we got a message, Russia said, uh, \u201cWe\u2019re watching<\/i> what you do with those people.\u201d And that calmed down this fucker that was running the gov\u2013 the country temporarily. He didn\u2019t want to get Russia ire up. (pause)<\/p>\n

But we coulda been on the boat (clears throat) and got to Cuba<\/i>. Yep. \u2018Cause we had our deal, too. (Stumbles over words) We want our people delivered in Cuba<\/i>, we want them to meet us in Cuba<\/i>. Or we\u2019ll create shit on a boat<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd<\/b>: (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>What? Yeah! We got on a boat, we, uh\u2013 (Stumbles over words) all under the fuckin\u2019 departments we put all on a boat, and we say, you don\u2019t let our people get to Cuba if they want to, anybody that wants to stay in America, they can, but when we get to Cuba, we want to be met<\/i> there! Say, well, Cuba wouldn\u2019t let you in. Shit, honeys, when all us niggers l\u2013 l\u2013 l\u2013 landed there in that Havana harbor with that boat crowded to its seams, I\u2019ll betcha they\u2019d let our ass in.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Cheers)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> They mighta put me jail, but I\u2019ll betcha they let my ass in.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028 Ain\u2019t nobody<\/i> want us all die out there in that harbor. They mighta done that in Germany, but that ain\u2019t gonna happen again, \u2018cause they\u2019ve\u2013 they all got that\u2013 that still fresh in their mind. They used to let the jury\u2013 Jews go from port to port, but uh, honey, I am not like some folk, I make too much fuckin\u2019 racket. I have my radio, that\u2019s one thing we said, we gotta have our radio, I put every fuckin\u2019 radio I had on that boat, \u2018cause I gone be signaling<\/i> all the way to Cuba. (short laugh) If Cuba said, don\u2019t let us in, I said, uh, (short laugh) these folk will not let us in here, we got old folk on here, we are not\u2013 had enough to eat and we cannot\u2013 no place to put our shit and they won\u2019t let us in here?<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Reacts) (Pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (draws out word) Shit. Don\u2019t you think we wouldn\u2019t got into Cuba? But the only reason we couldn\u2019t get to Cuba<\/i> \u2018cause the fuckin\u2019 boat<\/i> woulda sunk in Port Kaituma<\/i> \u2018cause some of these sons of bitches had all this shit wrapped around their insides<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Reacts)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028We had to quit<\/i>! (pause) We had only so much space. You better hope we get that freighter on the 29th. You guys, when you go in that boat, you\u2019d better\u2013 (Stumbles over words) work on it, I got the\u2013 down, I got him to go down in the price, even. You better make that son-bitch run. (clears throat) Hell, if we get it down much lower, I\u2019ll buy the son-of-a-bitch, if it\u2019ll only go one trip.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028 (Laughs) I\u2013 I\u2019ll park it out here in Port Kata\u2013 if I can get that fuckin\u2019\u2013 fucker for twenty-five thousand dollars, which it looks like I can get it for right now, I\u2019ll buy that fucker and just<\/i> park it out here in Port Kaituma, waitin\u2019, because I know some son-bitch\u2019ll cause us trouble, and we\u2019ll have to go to the sea. (pause)<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Clears throat) I\u2019ll go without meat for a week<\/i>, won\u2019t you?<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Cheers)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Laughs) You eat\u2013 you eat that much goddamned meat<\/i> in a month. We\u2019ll go a month without meat to get that boat parked out there.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Agrees)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, what\u2013 what good do the goddamned boat, the boat won\u2019t go that many miles. Honey, if it just takes us out one time to Cuba, it\u2019s good enough for me, yeah.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Agrees)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028 \u2018Cause there you\u2019ve got all<\/i> Communists, you don\u2019t have some Communists and little bureaucrats that never went through a revolution, some of these y\u2013 young bugs come up through here, they never fought<\/i> for freedom, they never lived<\/i> under a British. (pause) And if you don\u2019t fight for something, you won\u2019t keep it.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s why some of us keepin\u2019 this land, that\u2019s why some \u201cI don\u2019t give a shit about this place, I\u2019ll leave.\u201d Yeah, but you\u2013 you didn\u2019t stand on this line.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You\u2013 you\u2013 you get a little, uh, deeper feeling in here. You say, well, I want to go to Russia right now. Naw, you don\u2019t feel quite like that, you fought for this fuckin\u2019 land and it\u2013 it\u2013 it\u2019s land you made communist \u2018cause there wasn\u2019t nothin\u2019 here but ants and wasn\u2019t nothin\u2019 here but trees<\/i> when you got here, and you feel a little bit, (unintelligible) sure<\/i> we\u2019d go, if that\u2019s what necessity calls for, but we fought hard<\/i>, and some fought here for three and a half years<\/i> to build this goddamned thing, and they\u2019re not going to just drop it over\u2013 overnight because some son-of-a-bitch<\/i>, we\u2019re gonna hold out, we\u2019re gonna hold on, we\u2019re gonna keep on, we\u2019re gonna fight<\/i> on as long as we can.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Cheers, applause, war cry)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s it, I like it.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Loud cheers)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> And that\u2019s Algeria.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Loud cheers)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028(warbles loud, shrill war-cry) (Pause) That\u2019s how-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (war cry)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028 Let it go, honey. In case\u2013 in case\u2013 in case those sons-of-bitches are out there, the Olivers that sold us\u2013 sold out, let\u2019s make it a little louder so they\u2019ll here us out there.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (extended war cry)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Peace, peace.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Quietens)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> As the foreign minister said today, and this is exact quote, he said, \u201cIf I didn\u2019t like you for sayin\u2019 that you are like a tree and won\u2019t be moved,\u201d he said, \u201cwe\u2019d keep our word to people as productive as you are, and we need you over there, because you\u2019re the most productive people in Guyana.\u201d So I got a feeling that they\u2019re not gonna sell our asses out, \u2018cause they need<\/i> us. Now if we couldn\u2019t do<\/i> anything out here, if we weren\u2019t together, and we did like some<\/i> of you folk, did our own thing, and got to work when we wanted<\/i> to, and work when we felt<\/i> like it. Some of you are three-day wonders. You work three day\u2013 or you work three hours, then you rest twenty-one. If everybody did that way, they\u2019d say, take<\/i> them fuckers outta here. If every one of \u2018em was drinkin\u2019 like some of you did down in Port Kaituma, say, get \u2018em out. Shit, we got all that shit, we got that dime-a-dozen in Port Kaituma. But these fuckers work<\/i>! That\u2019s what he said today. Said they don\u2019t play. Said, if I didn\u2019t like\u2013 I don\u2019t know how to deal with you crazy niggers,<\/a> he said it, boy, he got me down right, he said, (Stumbles over words) I admire it but he said, I never had, I never had nobody tell me I\u2019m like a tree<\/i> and won\u2019t be moved<\/i>. (pause) He said, I know you mean it. And I do<\/i>, and he knows<\/i> it. But he said one thing I do<\/i> like, is you\u2019re productive and you\u2019re essential<\/i> to us, and we keep our word<\/i> to those that are as productive as you. Well, time remains. He has up to now.<\/p>\n

(Long pause, someone talking far away from microphone, unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones<\/b>: Yeah, the Venezuelans, who were asking about us over here, they probably heard us \u201cwoooo!\u201d<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028 And he said, they\u2019re good at their work, they\u2019re hard-workin\u2019, they may\u2013 they may yell, but\u2013 (laugh)<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028 They work\u2013 He praised us over in Venezuela. (Clears throat) And they praise us every day, \u2018cause it\u2019d be awful hard now to back off of that praise, \u2018cause they\u2019ve been praises, and put us in the front\u2013 uh, uh, mid-section of the paper. There\u2019re a lot of things goin\u2019 for us, but I don\u2019t believe in being unduly<\/i> optimistic. I\u2019m optimistic that he gave me his word today<\/i>, but he may get dyspepsia tomorrow. He could die<\/i> tomorrow. All four<\/i> of \u2018em [Prime Minister Forbes Burnham, Deputy Prime Minister Ptolemy Reid, Foreign Affairs Minister Fred Wills, Home Affairs Minister Vibert Mingo] could get shot<\/i> tomorrow, that are the best socialists in the country. You know? Don\u2019t make me<\/i> no different. \u2018Cause I know what we\u2019ll do, we\u2019ll go \u201cwoooooo!\u201d (war-cry)<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (imitates war cry)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028 And we\u2019ll make some demands. Say, come at your own risk. (Imitates Mae West) Come up and see us sometime.<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028 Then if we get uh\u2013 just get tired of that shit, we\u2019ll say we goin\u2019 down to our boat<\/i>. Give me another couple of weeks, and I\u2019m lookin\u2019 for that boat, honey. Save everything you can save. If you\u2019ve got anything back there you\u2019re hiding, anything, get the watches out, get \u2018em out and send \u2018em down, and, uh (Stumbles over words) send \u2018em to our two sweet ladies that go down\u2013 the one plump one and the one thin one. (laughs) I said that \u2018cause that kinda gets<\/i> her. (laughs) For the rest of the men, in Port\u2013 we got a lot of friends goin\u2019 for us, \u2018cause, shit, we cause them more trouble, Helen\u2013 Helen Swinney, she\u2019s downtown, she\u2019s downtown lookin\u2019 around\u2013 she\u2019s downtown lookin\u2019 around, she sees one of our crates. (Calls out) Sir, arrest that man, he\u2019s got one of our crates. (Laughs) Put his ass in jail and put up the crate. Patty [Cartmell] sold him the crate. (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028 She trade that fuckin\u2019 crate for five dollars worth of oranges. He was slightly pissed, but she\u2013 when they find out it\u2019s us, they just\u2013 anybody else I\u2019da been\u2013 shit, man, sellin\u2019 crates (laughs).<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs, someone says something and laughter continues)<\/p>\n

Jones<\/b>: (laughing through words) He\u2013 yes, that was his defense, he said (laughs) that\u2019s why I was kidding, he says, \u201cTwo<\/i> Americans sold me that damn crate! Traded<\/i> me for five-dollar worth of oranges, one of \u2018em was fat and the other was thin.\u201d<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028 (Laughs) One thin blonde, one fat\u2013 what\u2019d he say?<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd<\/b>: (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Ha ha, that (Unintelligible word). (Pause) They\u2019re bargainers, and we need to get to the\u2013 get them the stuff<\/i> so they can get down the river. \u2018Cause we wanna buy that boat. I mean, if that son-of-a-bitch floats<\/i>, we wanna buy that boat. And the old man wants to retire, and Richard Janaro has talked a couple of boatmen that says it\u2019s a good boat. And that\u2019s boat\u2019s gonna go. We gotta buy<\/i> that boat. We got him at seventy\u2013 say, down to sixty-five thousand Guyanese<\/i>. Honey, if we can drag that a little bit lower, I would\u2013 I don\u2019t know how many would fuss much (Unintelligible word) than that. And you know what<\/i>? I don\u2019t know whether it\u2019s true, but hey, did you (Unintelligible word) that radio contact?<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd<\/b>: (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b>\u2028 States. Ask them, what happened to the church in Los Angeles? Because we got two<\/i> offers on that son-bitch yesterday. (pause)<\/p>\n

Crowd<\/b>: (cheers, war cries)<\/p>\n

(Tape garbled, silence.)<\/p>\n

Tape originally posted March 2010<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1, Pt. 2). (Note: Transcript prepared by Catherine Abbott. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.) Jim Jones: (tape comes on mid-sentence) \u2013and uh, […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":671,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-27639","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27639","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=27639"}],"version-history":[{"count":9,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27639\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":123238,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27639\/revisions\/123238"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=27639"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}