{"id":28003,"date":"2013-06-16T00:17:56","date_gmt":"2013-06-16T00:17:56","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/alternativejonestown.com\/?page_id=28003"},"modified":"2021-02-19T17:54:22","modified_gmt":"2021-02-20T01:54:22","slug":"050-2","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=28003","title":{"rendered":"Q050 Summary"},"content":{"rendered":"

Summary prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To read the Tape Transcript, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>, Pt. 2<\/a>).
To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.<\/p>\n

FBI Catalogue<\/b>: Jones Speaking<\/p>\n

FBI preliminary tape identification note: <\/strong>Marked in part "11\/16\/78 Thur Rally"<\/p>\n

Date cues on tape:<\/b> 16 November 1978 (notation on tape box, confirmed in context)<\/p>\n

People named:<\/b><\/p>\n

Public figures\/National and international names:<\/i><\/p>\n

President Jimmy Carter
\nRep. Leo Ryan
\nMargaret Ackman, leader in Guyana’s People’s National Congress
\nHamilton Green, Guyana Minister of Health, Housing and Labor
\nMohamed Hamaludin, Guyanese journalist
\nCharles Garry, Temple attorney
\nMark Lane, Temple attorney
\nKarl Menninger, psychiatrist
\nChief Joseph <\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Temple adversaries; members of Concerned Relatives:<\/i><\/p>\n

Debbie Layton Blakey
\nClare Bouquet
\nJim Cobb
\nSherwin Harris
\nNadyne Houston
\nRobert Houston
\nSteven Katsaris
\nJoe Mazor, detective hired by Concerned Relatives (by reference)
\nWayne Pietila
\nGrace Stoen
\nTim Stoen
\nBonnie Malmin Thielmann [listed as Bonnie Burnham]
\nMickey Touchette <\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Other Temple members:<\/i><\/p>\n

Walter Duncan <\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Jonestown residents, full name unknown:<\/i><\/p>\n

Irene [either Eddins, Edwards, or Mason]
\nJane [probably Mary Jane Bailey]
\nJoyce [probably Touchette, could be Rozynko]
\nPaul [probably McCann]
\nRose [either Rose Shelton or Rose Sharon] <\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Jonestown residents:<\/i><\/p>\n

Sharon Amos
\nGeraldine Bailey
\nBrian Bouquet
\nPatty Cartmell
\nJohn Cobb

\nJames "Reb" Edwards

\nTom Grubbs
\nJudy Lynn Houston (by reference)
\nPatricia Dian Houston (by reference)
\nJimmie Jones (by reference)
\nMarceline Jones (speaks)<\/b>
\nStephan Jones
\nTimothy Tupper Jones (by reference)
\nAnita Kelley
Rita Lenin, aka Rita Tupper
\nJohn Victor Stoen
\nEtta Thompson
\nMike Touchette <\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Bible verses cited: <\/b>None<\/p>\n

Summary:<\/b><\/p>\n

(Note<\/strong>: This tape was one of the 53 tapes initially withheld from public disclosure. This tape was also one of the few which the FBI itself transcribed.)<\/em><\/p>\n

Taped a few days before the arrival of Rep. Leo Ryan and his party \u2013 which is already in Georgetown and is negotiating with Temple attorneys Charles Garry and Mark Lane for access to Jonestown \u2013 this recording is in two parts. The first is of a community filled with uncertainty, increasing defiance, and dwindling choices. Jim Jones often speaks about taking his own life on this tape, to the point that he stops considering any other alternative for himself, but he holds out other option for other people. Neither does he brand those who are considering other options as traitors \u2013 just as his rhetoric about life in the United States seems less inflamed than other tapes of the final days \u2013 but his criticism of the relatives who have accompanied the congressman (as well of Ryan himself) is scathing.<\/p>\n

The second part of the tape, made later the same day or perhaps the following day, is of Jim Jones issuing instructions to a community meeting via the public address system. Marceline Jones then talks more personally to the community, and seems to be in its midst, rather than removed as Jones was.<\/p>\n

The tape of the community meeting begins with some housekeeping conversation about the cost and durability of pairs of eyeglasses. It is a discussion that considers the future affordability of the glasses, but it is also a short discussion and \u2013 since the tape has many edits \u2013 it could be from an earlier meeting.<\/p>\n

Jones begins the discussion about Ryan be saying that he does not know \u201cwhether we will receive any guests tomorrow or not,\u201d although the main consideration at this point is his perception of Ryan\u2019s belligerence. \u201cI\u2019m not so inclined to be told when to receive guests,\u201d Jones continues, which is the issue Ryan is pushing. According to Jones \u2013 who says he is quoting Ryan \u2013 the congressman believes he has the authority to enter Jonestown whenever he wants. \u201c\u2018I got a right to come wherever I want to, whenever I want to,\u2019\u201d Jones quotes Ryan as saying. \u201cHe says the Constitution gives him the right to come down here and see us, because we\u2019re American taxpayers.\u201d The issue returns several times in the first half of the meeting. A few moments later, Jones says since they are taxpayers, they are paying Ryan\u2019s salary, and that gives them the right to drop in on Ryan whenever they want, \u201cmidnight or in the morning.\u201d Later, as Jones\u2019 mood becomes more defiant, he says, \u201c[Ryan] thinks \u2026 the Constitution and the Monroe Doctrine gives him the privilege to go wherever he wants to, [but] it also gives me the right to shoot him in the ass.\u201d To rising cheers, he adds, \u201cI can assure you that if [Ryan] stays long enough for tea, he\u2019s gonna regret it.\u201d<\/p>\n

Ryan\u2019s encounters with Temple members in Georgetown have been mixed. He has menaced one woman with hints of his knowledge of her personal life, Jones says, but his meeting with the Jonestown basketball team \u2013 in Georgetown to participate in a tournament that weekend \u2013 impressed him with the physical health of community members. However, Ryan supposedly asked, how about their psychological health, a question which Jones said he answered with a question of his own: \u201cWho the hell are you? Are you a psychiatrist\u2026?\u201d <\/p>\n

Jones\u2019 resistance to the impending visit is passive at the beginning of the session \u2013 he says he is tired of being pushed around from continent to continent, and perhaps they should emulate Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce nation when he said, \u201cI will fight no more forever\u201d \u2013 but the defiance builds as the tape progresses. \u201cI want to shoot somebody in the ass like him so bad, so long, I\u2019m not passing this opportunity up. Now if they come in, \u2026 they come in on their own risk.\u201d<\/p>\n

Still, at this point in the meeting, some issues seem open for debate. The mother of one young man in Jonestown has been impressed with what she\u2019s seen in Georgetown, and Jones asks the young man if he wants to see his mother. He apparently declines \u2013 his voice is too soft to be picked up on tape \u2013 but Jones replies quietly, \u201cI thought you did. I thought you wanted to see her in some way.\u201d Jones also talked about how, in his \u201cmercy,\u201d he had been prepared to let certain relatives see certain community members, but that the relatives kept agitating for more visits. \u201cIf you want to bring her in, it doesn\u2019t make any difference. At this stage, it\u2019s up to you. I\u2019m just speaking for myself. I\u2019m tired of being pushed around.\u201d<\/p>\n

But then the opposition that Jones expresses towards Ryan extends to the relatives in the congressional party as well. Jones notes that his b\u00eate noire, Tim Stoen, who is in Georgetown, has suggested that if John Victor Stoen \u2013 the subject of a custody suit and a deeper tug of war between Jonestown and the Concerned Relatives organization \u2013 were given to Tim, all their troubles would be over. But Tim has no rights over John, Jones says, because \u201cJohn\u2019s my son,\u201d and even the mother \u2013 Grace \u2013 has admitted as much. <\/p>\n

Besides, Jones says, turning over John Stoen would only be the beginning. \u201cIf I\u2019d give \u2018em all of you, they wouldn\u2019t get off my back.\u201d Things have already gone too far, he adds. \u201cAnd I don\u2019t know about you, I just wanted to be sure you understood where I\u2019m coming from. I don\u2019t care whether I see Christmas or Thanksgiving, neither one.\u201d At this moment, Thanksgiving is a week away.<\/p>\n

The subject of death underlies the rest of the conversation. Sometimes Jones talks about going down with a fight, sometimes he talks about the ease of sticking one\u2019s nose into a cup of water and dying \u201cif you want to.\u201d As he says several times in the balance of the tape, \u201cwe been debating about dying till, hell, it\u2019s easier to die than to talk about it.\u201d<\/p>\n

Nevertheless, he says he is choosing only for himself. \u201cEverybody has to work it out on their own.\u201d If people \u201cwant to move \u2026 to Kansas City,\u201d he invites them to talk about it (although he adds that it would give the rest of them peace not to have to look at those who want to leave). If people want to move to the Soviet Union, \u201cmaybe we can start negotiating with the Soviets, and a few can make it over there.\u201d But as for himself, he repeats, \u201cI am not moving no more.\u201d <\/p>\n

All these themes \u2013 the uncertainty about whether to let the congressman in, the continuing harassment from relatives that will grow even stronger in future weeks, the opportunity for other people to go elsewhere if they so choose, his own decision not to be pushed around any more \u2013 return several times throughout the tape. <\/p>\n

Jones returns to the subject of the Stoens as well, but the second time is with more detail and more antagonism. While he repeats longstanding descriptions of Tim as a transvestite and of Grace as an adulterer who locked her son in a garage while she had her trysts, Jones says he has more concrete reasons for seeing the Stoens as a threat. Tim wants to go after their IRS tax exemption in the U.S., and wants Guyana to kick them out of the country because they aren\u2019t the religious group they said they were when they got the land. \u201cI\u2019m telling you,\u201d Jones observes, \u201c[Stoen] is not satisfied one way or the other. He\u2019s got me a cult back there, and now I\u2019m not a religious group here.\u201d <\/p>\n

Stoen\u2019s motivation, according to Jones, is that \u201cwe\u2019re so evil, \u2026 we\u2019re the most evil thing on earth and that he stayed alive for no other cause, but to destroy us.\u201d And he isn\u2019t the only one with this goal. The Concerned Relatives don\u2019t care if they kill everyone when they come in here, Jones said. Defector Mickey Touchette said she was interested only in saving her brother, and \u201c[i]f the rest of them die, that\u2019s good. That\u2019s good.\u201d Even Grace Stoen is so set on punishing him that she doesn\u2019t care if she destroys her own child in the process.<\/p>\n

After several moments of silence, the second, shorter part of the tape begins with Jones issuing instructions over the loudspeakers of what he expects of the community when the congressman arrives. It is unclear whether this tape was made later the same day as the first part or the next day, but it is clear than the uncertainty over Ryan\u2019s arrival has passed. <\/p>\n

Jones tells the people of Jonestown to get some rest before the visitors arrive and then to dress as well as they can. He instructs them to \u201cbe friendly, be cordial,\u201d to smile, but not to approach the visitors. If any of the relatives approach them, he says, \u201cbe civil, but don\u2019t get engaged into a long conversation with them.\u201d A few minutes later, he instructs them on what to say if they\u2019re questioned about life in Jonestown: \u201ctell them how happy you are, you tell them what your food is, how much food, how much meat that we eat. We have all kinds of varieties of foods, fruits, every day, every day\u2026 [Y]ou wouldn\u2019t go back to the United States if someone were to give you a ticket tomorrow.\u201d<\/p>\n

Some of the relatives may approach you with a sealed envelope, Jones says several times. It could be a court order or a summons, he warns, so they are to take the envelope \u2013 unopened \u2013 to security. <\/p>\n

As opposed to the first part of the tape, Jones speaks in terms of damage control. He doesn\u2019t talk about death, but rather how they can survive this visit. It will be over soon, he says \u2013 the visitors may not even come back the second day \u2013 and if everyone relaxes, stays calm and follows what he says, they\u2019ll be fine. Indeed, his pleas for patience and calm seem every bit as urgent and passionate as his earlier defiance. \u201cWe do not want to see all of our children sacrificed over a jackass from San Mateo\u2026 We\u2019re not a menace to anybody, we\u2019re a peace-loving people.\u2026 That\u2019s why I told you to put your weapons down, we don\u2019t want any weapons, we don\u2019t want to have any holocaust with our own people, it\u2019s exactly what the CIA wants, a fight between us and our own people.\u201d<\/p>\n

He recognizes that much of the contention between Jonestown and the relatives stems from the custody of the children in general, and one in particular. \u201cWe must not have an incident over one child. I don\u2019t want to sacrifice the entire community over my child, the one I\u2019d sacrifice again over my life.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marceline then reiterates her husband\u2019s instructions, and concludes the tape with a reminder of who they are and why they are there: \u201cWe are here living communally, and we\u2019re also here working on ourselves to make ourselves more loving \u2026 more just, so that the whole world might be free.\u201d<\/p>\n

FBI Summary:<\/b><\/p>\n

Date of transcription: 6\/27\/79<\/p>\n

In connection with the Federal Bureau of Investigation\u2019s (FBI) investigation into the assassination of U.S. Congressman LEO J. RYAN at Port Kaituma, Guyana, South America, on November 18, 1978, a tape recording was obtained. This tape recording was located in Jonestown, Guyana, South America, and was turned over to U.S. Officials in Guyana and subsequently transported to the United States.<\/p>\n

On June 24, 1979, Special Agent (name deleted) reviewed the tape numbered 1B60-4. This tape was found to contain the following:<\/p>\n

JIM JONES holding a meeting and discussing the visit tomorrow of Congressman RYAN and newsmen. He describes RYAN as a right wing reactionary and the visit as a CIA plot. Expressed resentment of uninviting demanding nature of visit, discussing RYAN in derogatory street terms, the possibility of flying the Russian flag, refusing admittance to group, seizing NBC cameras, etc. JONES stated he would like to \u201cshoot his ass\u201d and rather die than move. JONES stated the Russians and PPP (phonetic) have promised support. He reminds members to speak positive and as little as possible and furnish all letters to security unopened. JONES states he is tired as he has been up 8 days and mentions dying numerous times and earlier stated they have been through 84 \u201cWhite Nights\u201d.<\/p>\n

Tape originally posted May 2004<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Summary prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To read the Tape Transcript, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1, Pt. 2). To return to the Tape Index, click here. FBI Catalogue: Jones Speaking FBI preliminary tape identification note: Marked in part "11\/16\/78 Thur […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":27996,"menu_order":5,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-28003","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/28003","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=28003"}],"version-history":[{"count":8,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/28003\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":108842,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/28003\/revisions\/108842"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27996"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=28003"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}