{"id":28209,"date":"2013-07-25T04:54:08","date_gmt":"2013-07-25T04:54:08","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/alternativejonestown.com\/?page_id=28209"},"modified":"2016-05-02T14:16:41","modified_gmt":"2016-05-02T21:16:41","slug":"627-2","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=28209","title":{"rendered":"Q627 Summary"},"content":{"rendered":"

Summary prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To read the Tape Transcript, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>, Pt. 2<\/a>).
\nTo return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.<\/p>\n

FBI Catalogue<\/b>: Tapes Not Summarized<\/p>\n

FBI preliminary tape identification note: <\/strong>One Tracs 60\/ 2\/9\/77 Julia Hare interviews JJ on KSFO<\/p>\n

Date cues on tape:<\/b>\u00a0 9 February 1977 (notation on tape box) (Tape Q 609<\/a> specifies 3\/5\/77; month difference is insignificant)<\/p>\n

People named:<\/b><\/p>\n

Public figures\/National and international names: <\/i>
\nU.S. President Jimmy Carter
\nRosalynn Carter, wife of President Carter
\nJohn F. Kennedy, assassinated U.S. President
\nGeorge McGovern, U.S. Senator (D-South Dakota)
\nRichard M. Nixon, former U.S. President (by reference)
\nTheodore Sorensen, Carter nominee to head CIA
\nCyrus Vance, U.S. Secretary of State
\nAndrew Young, civil rights activist, U.S. Ambassador to U.N.<\/div>\n

<\/p>\n

Fulgencio Batista, former Cuban dictator
\nMahatma Gandhi, Indian leader, practitioner of non-violence
\nVladimir Lenin, leader of Russian Revolution
\nKarl Marx, German economist, author of Das Kapital<\/i> Salvador Allende, President of Chile, deposed in 1973 coup (by reference)
\nForbes Burnham, Guyana Prime Minister (by reference)
\nEldridge Cleaver, Black Panther leader
\nKathleen Cleaver, Black Panther leader
\nGary Gilmore, executed convict
\nAlex Haley, author of Roots<\/i><\/p>\n

Willie Brown, California Assemblyman
\nJohn Burton, U.S. Representative (D-Calif.)
\nPhilip Burton, U.S. Representative (D-Calif.)
\nDon Clausen, U.S. Representative (R-Calif.)
\nMervyn Dymally, California Lieutenant Governor
\nGeorge Moscone, mayor of San Francisco
\nCharles Gain, San Francisco police chief
\nJoseph Freitas, San Francisco District Attorney<\/i><\/p>\n

Dr. Helen Flanders Dunbar, psychiatrist
\nBill Farr, L.A. newsman
\nYvonne Golden, S.F. Board of Education
\nAngela Davis, university professor, member of Communist Party
\nRev. Hall, minister at Bethel AME in San Francisco
\nJulia Hare, Bay Area black activist, radio talk show host (speaks)<\/b>
\nNathan Hare, black publisher (by reference)
\nIda Ray (phonetic), black activist (speaks)<\/b><\/div>\n

<\/p>\n

Temple members: <\/i>
\nJohnny Brown
\nAmanda Poindexter, aka Ever Rejoicing (by reference)
\nMichael Prokes (speaks)<\/b><\/div>\n

<\/p>\n

Bible verses cited:<\/b>\u00a0 <\/p>\n

\u201cJudge a tree by the fruit it bears.\u201d (Matthew 12:33, \u201cEither make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.\u201d See also Luke 6:43-44.)<\/p>\n

\u201cJesus said, he is not against me, is on my part. When one of his disciples came up to him early in the ministry when all the followers that Jesus had were with him, so it had to be someone of another faith\u2026 John said, what\u2019re we going to so with this gang. They\u2019re not with Jesus. He said, they\u2019re not against me. They\u2019re for me.\u201d (Mark 9:38-40, \u201cAnd John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.\u201d)<\/p>\n

\u201cWhen [Jesus] judged people\u2013 in Matthew 25, the only judgment that ever came out of the mouth of the Nazarene was, I was hungry and you didn\u2019t feed me, I was thirsty, you gave me no drink, I was a stranger, you didn\u2019t take me in. I was in prison, oppressed, and you didn\u2019t do something to get me out of that condition. He said what\u2013\u00a0when did we see you there? He said, in that you saw the least of suffering humanity there, you saw me. And so you didn\u2019t help them.\u201d (Matthew 25:34-46)<\/p>\n

\u201cJesus Christ said petition or pray that heaven come on earth. Heaven is within you.\u201d (Luke 17:20-21, \u201cAnd when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.\u201d)<\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u201c[P]acifism doesn\u2019t mean that you roll over and play dead. Now indeed, if a bunch of [Nazis] come into our Temple, we\u2019re not going to turn the other cheek. We\u2019ve turned all the cheeks we\u2019ve got anyway. And so we will resist evil.\u201d (Matthew 5:39, \u201cBut I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.\u201d)<\/p>\n

\u201cLove does overcome evil, if you can endure.\u201d (Romans 12:21, \u201cBe not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.\u201d)<\/p><\/div>\n

<\/p>\n

Summary:<\/b><\/p>\n

This two-part tape consists of a radio program from February 1977 in which San Francisco station KSFO host Julia Hare interviews two Temple leaders, Jim Jones and Michael Prokes, and a phone call in which Prokes attempts to undo some damage that Jones did to his own political future in the Bay Area, due in part to that interview. The first two-thirds of this tape are virtually duplicated by Q 609<\/a>.<\/p>\n

A note of context may help with this tape: By the end of 1976, some black clergy had come to perceive Jones as a threat to the black church in San Francisco. Through the Temple\u2019s pro-active work on behalf of the poor in San Francisco \u2013\u00a0especially the black poor \u2013 Jones\u2019 church was siphoning off members from surrounding black congregations, and local black clergy felt threatened. Finally, Jones himself provided them with an opportunity to bring him down a notch: attracted by the prestige \u2013 if not necessarily the politics \u2013 of a group called the Black Leadership Forum, Jones applied for membership. In response, several black ministers, led by Hannibal Williams and Amos Brown, changed membership rules to require that any applicant be an \u201cadult person of African descent.\u201d While Jones claimed to have a black ancestry, just as he claimed to have Native American ancestry (and both of which were unfounded), he certainly did not have enough black blood to meet the new requirement, and his application was rejected. (For more information, see John R. Hall, Gone From the Promised Land<\/i>, p. 162, and Tanya M. Hollis, \u201cPeoples Temple and Housing Politics in San Francisco,\u201d in Peoples Temple and Black Religion in America<\/i>, edited by Rebecca Moore, Anthony B. Pinn and Mary R. Sawyer, p. 97.)<\/p>\n

Much of this tape reflects Jones\u2019 reaction to the snub. While the interview is a general one \u2013\u00a0the host asks questions about the Temple\u2019s interdenominational programs, about Jones\u2019 psychic healings, about trips to the East Coast that members took on Temple buses, and about the Temple\u2019s most recent efforts in support of the tenants at the International Hotel \u2013 there are large segments devoted to Jones\u2019 political views, and a somewhat staged question on his aspirations.<\/p>\n

It is likely that the host is aware of Jones\u2019 recent difficulties. She interrupts herself on a question about his membership in a group \u2013 likely the Black Leadership Forum \u2013 to ask instead, \u201c[F]irst, what do you think is the failure of the black ministers, why they haven\u2019t been able to organize people to do the kinds of things you did?\u201d She also asks pointed questions about the reasons for locating a church with white leadership in a black area of San Francisco, and about his own success in bringing people of different ethnicity and backgrounds together. His answers combine plugs for the Temple (\u201c[R]eligion should be a practical thing. We\u00a0feel the highest worship to a deity, however you see it, should be service to your fellow man\u201d) and critiques of other churches (\u201cI think they\u2019re caught up in this futurism\u2026 you hear this pie in the sky stuff and futurism about the furniture of heaven and the temperature of hell, and that\u2019s where too many of our churches are, their heads are still there, even in 1977\u201d).<\/p>\n

Later, when the opportunity arises for Jones to express his displeasure with the decision of the Black Leadership Forum \u2013 however oblique the reference might have been to the casual listener, and however equally provocative it might have been to those in the group \u2013 he seizes it. In the course of talking about ways the FBI disrupted the Black Panthers, to keep them marginalized, Jones says, \u201c[the FBI] was talking in the same terms that some people are talking right today in San Francisco, we can\u2019t cooperate with any others, we have to be black only, and we\u2019re going to have to define what black is, and now<\/i> we find out that behind all those black-only was white establishment plans to divide\u2026 I\u2019m suspicious of these people who want to divide when the community could really come together in San Francisco.\u2026 I wonder if we don\u2019t have a nice agent provocateur.\u201d<\/p>\n

Towards the end of the interview, following a lengthy segment about Jones\u2019 views on a possible thaw in relations between the U.S. and Cuba in the opening weeks of the new Carter administration, Hare uses a commercial break to express her admiration for Jones and to say she wants to follow up with a question about his political aspirations. Jones fumbles towards a response while he is still off air \u2013 \u201cthese black people have come to me and told me, they\u2019re scared to death I\u2019m going to be the mayor or I\u2019m going to be the next supervisor\u201d \u2013 but then says he has a message he wants to deliver. \u201cThank you for asking me that,\u201d he says as the break ends, \u201cso I can tell them, that I do not<\/i> want to be the supervisor. And then I will be probably welcomed into the forum.\u201d<\/p>\n

Hare accommodates him: \u201c[T]here are those who may feel that you have political aspirations, even with ramifications for the Black Leadership Forum. Are you interested in that, becoming a supervisor?\u201d Jones is emphatic in his response: \u201cunequivocally no\u2026 I have no<\/i> political ambitions, and this foolishness of the rumor that I\u2019m going to throw my hat in for the mayor, I have no intentions of running for any<\/i> elected office. And that is absolutely so.\u201d<\/p>\n

But the damage had been done. The second part of the tape \u2013 recorded over a portion of the Hare interview with Jones and Prokes \u2013 is a phone call which the Temple publicist places to a black female activist named Ida Ray who can help Jones make the necessary repairs. Prokes begins by describing the faux pas. In response to a question about membership on the Black Leadership Forum, Prokes says, \u201cJim evidently responded by saying, I don\u2019t want to go where I\u2019m not wanted. He felt that it was a blunder<\/i> on the part of the Black Leadership Forum to exclude him because, he said, it plays right into the hands of the system, which is trying to keep blacks and minorities divided in order to keep them oppressed.\u201d Jones\u2019 statement had started the phones ringing in the black community, a reaction which both Prokes and Ray felt was blown out of proportion. Prokes repeats what Jones said in the interview \u2013 that the Temple takes stands on positions, not people; that it is better to work from outside the two-party system so that they\u2019ll have the unfettered ability to point out errors in policy when they occur; and that Jones has no political aspirations \u2013 then Prokes adds his own affirmation: \u201cAnd we\u2019ll always do that.\u201d<\/p>\n

The woman points out that, ever since the election of George Moscone as mayor of San Francisco \u2013\u00a0a campaign in which the Temple had a pivotal and perhaps decisive role \u2013 a lot of people are afraid of the clout that Jones has, but that the best solution is to keep on working and to let this momentary crisis blow itself out. She ends the conversation by saying that she shares the Temple\u2019s desire to work for unity, not division, and promises to help them smooth things over.<\/p>\n

There are two other unrelated statements which Jones makes in the Hare interview that reveal the state of Jones\u2019 thinking at this juncture. One is an opinion which he rarely expresses in a public setting, which is that the time that the church spent in the agricultural community of Redwood Valley \u201cwas the biggest mistake of my life.\u201d There was insurmountable racism there, he says, as well as anti-Semitism, a by-product of the homogenous population of rural areas. The result is, those environments are \u201cmore sterile.\u201d<\/p>\n

The second is his reference to death which \u2013 unlike his statement about Ukiah \u2013\u00a0seems to appear on almost every tape the Temple recorded. According to Jones, during a trip to Cuba, he asked a woman on the government\u2019s Central Committee whether they weren\u2019t afraid that their opposition to the United States might bring about a nuclear war. The woman\u2019s response, according to Jones, was, \u201cWe all have to die sometime. You can\u2019t start compromising your principles. You have to live by your principles.\u201d<\/p>\n

The language is actually that of Jim Jones. He speaks of commitment to principle, even unto death, in numerous addresses to the Temple membership. The rhetoric becomes even more pervasive in Jonestown, extending to 18 November 1978, when, during the death tape<\/a>, he says, \u201c[S]omeday everybody dies. Some place that hope runs out, because everybody dies. I haven\u2019t seen anybody yet didn\u2019t die.\u201d<\/p>\n

FBI Summary:<\/b><\/p>\n

Date of transcription: 3\/13\/79<\/p>\n

In connection with the Federal Bureau of Investigation\u2019s investigation into the assassination of U.S. Congressman LEO J. RYAN at Port Kaituma, Guyana, South America, on November 18, 1978, a tape recording was obtained. This tape recording was located in Jonestown, Guyana, South America, and was turned over to U.S. Officials in Guyana and subsequently transported to the United States.<\/p>\n

On March 8, 1979, Special Agent (name deleted) reviewed the tape numbered 1B47 #72.<\/p>\n

This tape was reviewed, and nothing was contained thereon which was considered to be of evidentiary nature or beneficial to the investigation of Congressman RYAN.<\/p>\n

Differences with FBI Summary:<\/b><\/p>\n

There is nothing to compare between the two summaries, since the FBI did not write anything for this, or 64 other tapes which bear the notation \u201cTapes Not Summarized.\u201d These tapes seems to have little on them which the FBI could use for its purposes of investigating crimes arising from the Jonestown tragedy, but then again, that describes many other tapes as well. The difference seems to be that one or two FBI agents catalogued this set of tapes \u2013 as evidenced by the typewriter used in writing the reports \u2013 and that generally, the transcriptions were made early in the process, before someone may have asked for greater detail in the reports.<\/p>\n

Tape originally posted April 2006<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Summary prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To read the Tape Transcript, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1, Pt. 2). To return to the Tape Index, click here. FBI Catalogue: Tapes Not Summarized FBI preliminary tape identification note: One Tracs 60\/ 2\/9\/77 […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"parent":27996,"menu_order":411,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-28209","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/28209","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/6"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=28209"}],"version-history":[{"count":7,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/28209\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":59572,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/28209\/revisions\/59572"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27996"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=28209"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}