{"id":63243,"date":"2015-03-04T17:44:57","date_gmt":"2015-03-04T17:44:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=63243"},"modified":"2024-10-19T15:06:43","modified_gmt":"2024-10-19T22:06:43","slug":"annotated-transcript-q1024","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=63243","title":{"rendered":"Annotated Transcript Q1024"},"content":{"rendered":"

(Editor’s note:<\/strong> Transcript prepared by Freya Kory. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)<\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.\u00a0
\nTo return to the Annotated Sermons page,\u00a0click here<\/a>.
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. To read Tape Transcript,\u00a0click here<\/a>.
\nListen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>,\u00a0Pt. 2<\/a>, Pt. 3<\/a>).<\/p>\n

Edith Roller: <\/b>(Tape starts mid-sentence) \u2013in my lifetime, I\u2019ve seen an awful lot of leaders, I uh, knew uh, Nehru rather well. He was rather a good<\/i> one. I knew some rather horrible ones like Franco, I\u2019ve known leaders of all kinds of organizations, but I never<\/i> have seen one who didn\u2019t enjoy the praise of the crowd, who didn\u2019t change his demeanor, uh, when he knew that people were looking at him (tape distorts) who was always the same. I never \u2013 and I even find it in myself \u2013 uh, when\u2013 You watch people, when they\u2013 they t\u2013 turn the television camera on \u2018em, (tape distorts) they\u2019re a different person. They change<\/i> because they\u2019re acting. I don\u2019t think I need to tell you that we have a leader who is always<\/i> the same\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Sustained applause and cheers)<\/p>\n

Edith: <\/b>\u2013who, uh\u2013 who never does anything for the praise of the crowd or anyone else, who always, uh, forgets himself and thinks of others, uh\u2013 Those of you who were in San Francisco over the weekend know that if, uh, other people aren\u2019t getting the same amount of food or the same quality of food as he does, he won\u2019t eat<\/i>, uh\u2013 In fact, uh, he won\u2019t eat until<\/i> we have eaten. Uh, he\u2019ll give up his water<\/i>, which he needs, uh, uh, drastically for his, uh, service<\/i> to us, uh, if\u2013 if uh, anyone is thirsty. Uh, I\u2013 I just had another instance of this which recalls in my mind, as I was going down in a hurry, down the aisle, I bumped into<\/i> him as he was coming in, uh, and you know most people, you\u2019d bump into them, uh, if they don\u2019t say look out, where you think you\u2019re going, uh, well, they give you a dirty look anyway\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>\u2013and it was plainly my fault, but he said \u201cExcuse me<\/i>.\u201d Now that\u2019s just\u00ad\u2013 I just thought, you know, instantly<\/i> he says, he takes the blame uh, as if he had run into me, which wasn\u2019t true, of course, because he<\/i> always knows where he\u2019s going.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Sustained applause and cheers)<\/p>\n

Music starts<\/p>\n

Man: <\/b>(sings) \u2013rify his holy name\/ Sing and praise and glorify his holy name\/ Praise him in the morning noontime and eve\/ That the earth and heavens ring and sing\u2013<\/p>\n

(singing fades out\u2013 tape edit).<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Peace. Now the Children of God, an outfit that is (Pause) not really socialistic, not certainly fascistic<\/i>, more likely hedonistic<\/i>, they\u2019re doing a lot of, uh\u2013 Terri Buford\u2019s got some articles that they\u2019re putting out that would blow your mind<\/i>. Shows people using their mouth on each other in the name of Jesus<\/i>. Yeah. But<\/i> they\u2019re saying (draws out word) just a little bit of things that get people upset. Their leader [David Berg, aka Moses David], of course, is living over in safety somewhere in Switzerland. He\u2019s safe at least today, fortunately, as I said, prophesized the vote the Swiss would take would be, it was an entire vote of referendum taken amongst the Swiss today to see whether all foreigners, black, brown, white, yellow \u2013 didn\u2019t make any difference what \u2013 all foreigners were to be pitched<\/i> out of Switzerland. But it lost this<\/i> time \u2018round. When they\u2019re a little bit short of bread and meat later on in the winter, I don\u2019t know how<\/i>. But he\u2019s settin\u2019 over there makin\u2019 ten million dollars a\u2013 a year<\/i>, so he can write things pretty uh, gettin\u2019 a little character. And so everybody\u2019s after Children of God \u2013 you read in all the newspapers here \u2013 after<\/i> the children of God. Here\u2019s why: (Reading) America has its last chance in the youth revolution for Jesus<\/i> and [U.S. Senator George] McGovern\u2013 (Conversational tone) Now I don\u2019t know where he gets Jesus and McGovern together, but\u2013 McGovern all right, but Jesus, I\u2013 (Reads) But the American fascists<\/i> drove out the one and crushed the other, and they\u2019ve snuffed<\/i> out the last lights in America. In the time America has left, she\u2019ll remain in darkness till she\u2019s destroyed<\/i>. She rejected<\/i> her final salvation. Thank God he at last saved some of her youth, who are worthy through<\/i> us, the Children of God, Hallelujah, and we have gone on to save the world. Are you with us? Oh, why would you die? Save yourselves from this untoward generation of vipers who would destroy the earth. Join us, God help you. (Conversational tone) Now that\u2019s not sayin\u2019 much, \u2018cause as I said, it\u2013 much of their literature deals with just sex orgies. They\u2019re really schizophrenic. Have you picked up any of their literature? It\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s too much. It blows your mind. Sometimes they\u2019re lickin\u2019 for Jesus, and other times they\u2019re talkin\u2019 with some sense<\/i> for Jesus. So it\u2019s a real schizoid<\/i> kind of group<\/i>, but they say just enough that New York has got them investigated, and Colorado is investigating them, and every newspaper\u2019s lambasting them, because they called America one word: fascist<\/i>. (pause) So brace<\/i> yourself, baby. The greatest proof that I\u2019m a miracle worker is that we haven\u2019t got hit<\/i> already.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Pause, then applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2018Cause I\u2019m not speaking<\/i> from the comfort and confines of the Swiss Alps<\/i>, I\u2019m speaking right in the midst of this devilish scene. Been callin\u2019 fascist<\/i> ever since I was about 15 and a half. That\u2019s when I became (Pause) that\u2013 That\u2019s when I became<\/i> that. When I was 15 and a half, about that. We\u2019re still continuing relatively uninterrupted<\/i>, (Pause) so let us enjoy buildin\u2019 this kingdom while we can, \u2018cause we better get to it fast when the showdown comes, \u2018cause this old boy, uh\u2013 as I say, when he isn\u2019t talkin\u2019 bout sex, he\u2019s an old reprobate, but he\u2019s got enough decency, (unintelligible) nobody\u2019s just bad or good, there\u2019s always little elements of both<\/i>. He calls himself Moses David<\/i>. He\u2019s about 60, laying up there. He\u2019s had a heart attack \u2013 two or three of \u2018em \u2013 and he\u2019s layin\u2019 in a ski resort, been layin\u2019 there for about ten years. All of his children pass out this literature and get uh, three hundred dollars a week<\/i> and have to turn it all in to him<\/i>. And he doesn\u2019t do a thing to start any revolution except print some more of this, which is better<\/i> than most churches, you see. (Pause) The sex poems are out of\u2013 out of this world. Out<\/i> of this world. The sex poems look like the man is a blimey nut. But when he gets out of his bleary-eyed\u2013 I guess he missed all of his sex life, gettin\u2019 old, he\u2019s lost all of his hot, and he can\u2019t trot\u2013 so he\u2019s\u2013 he gets into that<\/i> realm, and he\u2019s just simply<\/i> disturbed. It\u2019s just terrible. He goes off and writes poetry that doesn\u2019t make any sense<\/i>, it\u2019s just filled<\/i> with sex and malarkey. I\u2019ll\u2013 I\u2019ll let you see it, but you see, they\u2019re afraid<\/i> of the man, he\u2019s crazy<\/i> on one side, but one side of him has got an intelligence to see that it\u2019s fascism that\u2019s coming in to America. He said, uh, so many\u2019ve written us asking us what they felt about [John F.] Kennedy and his assassation [assassination], and he answered with the following: (Reads) Recent magazine article confirmed that President John Kennedy was assassinated by US fascists<\/i>, because he was on too friendly relations with Russia<\/i>. He was trying to make peace<\/i> with Russia and came closest to doing it of any man yet, even closer than [President Richard] Nixon<\/i>. Nixon\u2019s obviously been doing it as opportunistic, but just to advance his own political position<\/i>. But I believe that Kennedy really wanted to live peacefully with them in a peaceful world<\/i>, and he was trying to establish a lasting peace, a lasting detente. Also he was really trying to socialise America<\/i> \u2013 he spells it S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-E \u2013 socialise America, and between the two, the hardhats and the anti-communists, they couldn\u2019t stomach him and considered him too<\/i> liberal. I thought he was a good man and was very sincere<\/i> as the world goes. He was really a martyr for the cause of the poor \u2013 (Conversational tone) See, now that\u2019s a good side of this man, really tried to help the poor. (Reads) He was a great lover of President [Franklin] Roosevelt, who was a friend of the poor man, and Kennedy modeled his politics after him. FDR was really socializing America. (Conversational tone) That\u2019s a lie. Worst thing that ever happened to the socialist movement in America was FDR, \u2018cause he didn\u2019t<\/i> socialize, he innovated little capitalistic devices, like the welfare system and the Social Security (draws out word) just enough to keep the system from falling, and he perpetuated this on into this deathly system now of big-brotherly fascism<\/i>. But this<\/i> guy, you see, he\u2019s still on the\u2013 on the side of the angels. His intentions are well. His intentions are well taken. Ma\u2013 many religious rea\u2013 leaders wouldn\u2019t say<\/i> this kind of stuff. He\u2019s sayin\u2019 more<\/i> than most. Have you been seein\u2019 how the Children of God have been attacked everywhere? You been readin\u2019 the newspaper. They\u2019re after<\/i> them, after<\/i> them, like they were goin\u2019 out of style<\/i>. (Pause) Okay, and incidentally, it\u2019s still a mystery how he died. He couldn\u2019t have been poisoned, he was supposed to\u2019ve had a sudden stroke while sitting for his portrait. His coffin<\/i> was kept closed at his funeral. (Reads) FDR was probably the greatest<\/i> president the United States ever had, and he was really almost communizing America. (Conversational tone) Oh, boy (mutters under his breath, unintelligible) See, he doesn\u2019t\u2013 he isn\u2019t politically aware, but he\u2019s still saying too<\/i> much\u2013 America has gotten afraid of its liberals. (Pause) That\u2019s a hell of a state. It\u2019s got afraid of its liberal apologist<\/i>. They don\u2019t want any liberal (Unintelligible word) anymore, they want straight-out, old hardhat fascism, (Pause) (Reads) \u2013and he was really almost communizing America. Mrs. [Eleanor] Roosevelt was virtually communist, on very good terms with the Russians and Communists and Communist youth organizations. I believe what the Roosevelts would\u2019ve done would\u2019ve been to take America right into the Communist orbit and would\u2019ve made good friends with Russia. From 1918 to 1932, the US refused to recognized the Communist regime in the Soviet Union. FDR was the only one who, for the first time after World War I, insisted upon recognizing the Communist upon his election. So Kennedy was a great admirer of his. In fact, the whole Kennedy family, I believe\u2013 that\u2019s why Robert [Kennedy] was shot too, because I believe he would\u2019ve won the election. I think he would have been even more<\/i> liberal than his brother\u2013 (Pause) (Conversational tone) No way. Robert Kennedy was a uh, counselor for [former U.S. Senator Joseph] McCarthy. Some of us remember those bleak days. He was one of the advisors from the (Unintelligible word) McCarthy witch hunt. But you see, nonetheless \u2013 he got his facts mixed up \u2013 but the guy is saying too<\/i> much about fascist America. That\u2019s why, of all<\/i> religious groups that\u2019s being attacked today, you\u2019ll notice the Children of God will be attacked more than anyone else. You read the articles and you\u2019ll see it. Keep in mind, as long as he keeps talkin\u2019 like this, they\u2019re gonna go after him more and more and more and more. (Reads) I don\u2019t think he was as strong a personality, but he certainly was a friend of the youth and socialists as well as John Kennedy. The militant American fascists, the anti-communists hardhats, saw the Kennedys were so popular, there was no other way to get rid of them. (Conversational tone) There\u2019s some truth in that. They were\u2013 they were afraid<\/i> that under Kennedy, it might kinda turn to a liberally socialistic \u2013 or to some degree, socialistic \u2013 so they wanted to get him out of the way. (Clears throat) (Reads) That\u2019s why [U.S. Sen.] Ted Kennedy, the last of the four brothers, doesn\u2019t want to run for president<\/i>. It\u2019s just almost sure as shootin\u2019<\/i> that he will get shot also<\/i> after putting everybody else out of the way. The greatest threat to Hitler was George Wallace. (Pause) (Conversational tone) Isn\u2019t it amazing that somebody could have their facts as messed up as this and still <\/i>be considered a threat<\/i>? You know why he\u2019s a threat? He\u2019s got some people that don\u2019t think with Big Brother. He\u2019s got with some people that maybe\u2013 even maybe he\u2019s<\/i> fascist himself of sorts, hard disciplinarian, they have to go just almost\u2013 You talk about communes, they can\u2019t have\u2013 they cannot even pay a penny extra for bus<\/i> fare without itemizing it. They have one suit of clothes only<\/i>. You talk about communal discipline<\/i>, you don\u2019t know what communalism is in this place. I mean, those people are stripped<\/i>, and he lives up high on the hog. (Pause) But he\u2019s sayin\u2019 too much<\/i>. What a country this is, that\u2019s so threatened by people like this. (Reads) These American fascists are playin\u2019 for keeps. If Wallace had stayed in the running, he would\u2019ve split the Republican vote and defeated Nixon, and McGovern would have won. (Conversational tone) Well, now that, you see, is reasonable. He\u2013 That\u2019s reasonable\u2013 (Reads) I think Nitler\u2019s \u2013 he calls Nixon, Nitler \u2013 I think Nitler\u2019s been at this a long time. He was having a big powwow with some of his top moneymen, with his fascist hardhat supporters in Dallas the night before Kennedy was shot there and the host of the fascist conference. Nitler was having the big moneyboys, he and about a dozen<\/i> of those guys took off from Dallas for Mexico the next day right after Kennedy was shot. It is generally recognized that Kennedy was one of the greatest presidents America\u2019s had. (Conversational tone) That is some question to you, but really\u2013 Anyway, I can see this would be awfully<\/i> threatening to America. After all, the Bay of Pigs did take place under Kennedy, a lotta\u2013 a lotta contradictions, hard to figure out who\u2019s been best for America. The way they wheel and deal, it\u2019s very difficult to keep up with the fascist conspiracy. (Reads) He was a good friend of the poor man, a friend of the Russians, a socialist and a peacemaker<\/i>. He avoided one of the greatest dangers of the missile war the US ever had in the Cuban Missile Crisis. He did it by a personal, private talk with [Soviet Premier Nikita] Khrushchev. He died a martyr<\/i> for his convictions and his cause. (Conversational tone) Now, this guy may<\/i> get straightened out, after he gets through all these sex<\/i> poems, it might get him converted<\/i>. You\u2013 you haven\u2019t read any sex poems. You women get nervous with my<\/i> talk, (sound of falling object) ho-ho-ho-ho\u2013 It\u2019s all right \u2013 If you listen to him<\/i>, um-umm [No]. (Pause) \u2018Cause he\u2019s (unintelligible), \u2018cause he was Fundamentalist all of his life. He belonged to the Jordan movement. (Unintelligible) lined Fundamentalists \u2013 they still are. They believe in the blood of Jesus, it goes on to say you are not born again unless you\u2019ve been covered by the blood and baptized, filled with the Holy Ghost. But the guy is\u2013 He\u2019s got all these other strange things like: Would you like to know more about current and future world events? Limitless ventures of the spirit world? Love and sex?<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> (inaudible) one of his poems.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Here\u2019s one of his poems. \u201cMountin’ Maid.\u201d<\/a> (Pause) Uh\u2013 (Reads) I am for the miniblouse\/ Or the see-through at my house\/ She is such a lovely thing\/ to her mounts I love to cling\/ I am mountain man, my honey\/ Give me mountains for my money\/ Though I oft explore her cave\/ it\u2019s on her mountains that I rave\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Laughter)<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> (Unintelligible) get a Hallelujah. (Laughs) (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Conversational tone) We\u2019ve already at least found out he\u2019s a little child in his homosexual stage, has not got off of the mountains<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Reads) Let those mountains \u2013 (Conversational) He\u2013 he likes the mountains \u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013and see if we can get him to face his, uh, sexual narcissism and his sexual egotism and his sexual machismo<\/i>. Anybody who wants the mountains<\/i> more than the cave<\/i> is already sick<\/i>, you see. Mountains are nice<\/i>, but caves are much more fun.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Pause) Oh, I still got some of these petrified saints in here.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Continues reading poem) And the clothing more divisible\/ than they would be safe or far\/if you\u2019d leave those gates ajar\/ to reveal her scenic beauty\/ is your godly-given duty\/ Clear away that underbrush\/ and their praise you cannot hush\/ Down with front remaining walls\/ beauty<\/i> hidden in what galls\/ Away deceit hypocrisy\/ Truth unveiled for all to see\/ Lift men\u2019s minds from out the gutter\/ and her praises they will utter\/ Raise their eyes unto her hills\/ and you will cure<\/i> neurotic ills\/ To it increase\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013To it increase their hopes they hail\/ beauteous heights without the veil\/ You can now her valley fathom\/ far above her lower chasm\/<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Clear the undergrowth away\/ for that smell of new-mown hay\/<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Conversational) No wonder it says if you (unintelligible word) have any questions, write Children of God in care of Switzerland.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> He\u2019s safe<\/i> writing all of his silliness on (unintelligible). And, of course this<\/i> doesn\u2019t make a revolution. They don\u2019t care how much of this<\/i> he writes. But this is what they\u2019re using<\/i> against him. They may\u2013 they call him the Sexual Libertine, they call him a\u2013 a child molester, and he supposedly laid a 14-year-old girl and impregnated her, and is\u2013 wild as he is with (unintelligible) anybody that rhymes, every\u2013 every line is very schizoid. So they say. But schizophrenics often change the world. All power to \u2018em, if they can do any good for this<\/i> nation. But he\u2019s not gonna change it this<\/i> way. Where was I at? Because I think you need some more of this.<\/p>\n

Scattered in Congregation:<\/b> \u2013new-mown hay.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Reads) Under girding pillared column\/ you can have your clothing solemn\/Flying buttress, deep crevasse\/ there is nothing like her ass\/ But I\u2019ll show you something better\/ for a real attention getter\/ Set your mind on things above\/ that deep cavern that you love\/ When I show my lovely miss\/ which is why I\u2019m writing this\/I prefer the top to bottom\u2013 (Conversational) See, what the hell? The guy hung a\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> He didn\u2019t get en\u2013 he didn\u2019t get enough, uh, nursing<\/i> when he was y\u2013 young, you see\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> They put him on the bottle<\/i> and they should\u2019ve put him on the boobs<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Now if he\u2019d get<\/i> that out of the way and get out of that mess and stick to what I just read, it\u2019s quite a s\u2013 significant thing. Quit livin\u2019 above the people\u2013 And it\u2019s amazing, he writes all this, and these poor people in the pictures of the New Times<\/i>, the liberal magazine\u2019s been attacking him, \u2018cause no one likes\u2013 even they don\u2019t like a lecherous<\/i> bastard to use the name \u201cSocialism\u201d in a good light. They don\u2019t want anybody<\/i> to put that name in a good light. And, uh, New Times<\/i>, that\u2019s a new liberal outfit, we\u2019ll probably get our ding-dong from. They claim to be peaceful and loving, not socialistic enough, these lovely, peaceful love-children, peace-children that never want to name the words \u201cSocialism,\u201d \u201cCommunalism.\u201d They\u2019ve uh\u2013 they\u2013 they ju\u2013 they just, uh, rake ya through the coals. They show ya\u2013 They show all these pictures of his communes \u2013 he has 120 communes in the United States alone \u2013 and all of them live in abject poverty, just wrapped up in rags, tatters, and they go out and make three hundred dollars apiece for him sellin\u2019 this<\/i>\u2013 I can understand how he can sell this <\/i>(unintelligible). On one side he shows a woman with her bra on, and he x\u2019s that out, the next side he covers the woman\u2019s (Pause) downward parts and throws open the other and calls it \u201cMountain<\/i> Maid.\u201d Said the Lord gave him this vision\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Continues reading poem) I prefer the top to bottom\/ Brother she has really got \u2018em\/ That bottomless is not amiss\/ but topless heights I\u2019d like to kiss\u2013 (Conversational) Evidently he\u2019s havin\u2019 trouble gettin\u2019 (unintelligible) \u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Continues reading poem) But\u2013 can\u2019t have one without the other\/ like a babe without its mother\/ From the bottomless abyss\/ stand the mountains you cannot miss\/ with each peak so fascinating\/ makes my love so titillating\/ If you\u2019d view ecstatic wonder\/ tilts like hers can make hearts thunder\/ Top to bottom I\u2019m no stranger\/ but I thrill to mountains danger\/ Top to bottom can be seen\/ undulating curves between\/ Up and down her tiny crater\/ heaves in size when\u2019er I made her\/ Her volcano oft explodes\/ when we love in our abodes\/ It\u2019s a holy hole indeed\/ and within I leave my seed\/<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered reactions)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Conversational) My seed, my seed. See, he\u2019s caught up in his seed. Caught up in the sexual\u2013 said\u2013 said he can get down to it. \u2018Course, they\u2019d probably kill him if he got\u2013 if he got away from this, \u2018cause now they can write him off as a pure, raving nut\u2013 (Continues reading poem) Topless my\u2013 midless anywhere\/ but for bottomless I don\u2019t care\/ Lest we fail too far therein\/ and those peaks we\u2019re ne\u2019er in pinned\/ Twin peaks draped with fleecy cloud\/ very thin and not too loud\/ Billowy colored, not deep snow\/ lest her lovely lines won\u2019t show\/ Deep soft snow how e\u2019er you shape\/ will never cause us males to gape\/ Natural pinpoints never cleft\/ this is all that we want left\/ Unless she\u2019s some old crone\/ can\u2019t you leave these peaks alone?\/ Can\u2019t we leave those summits bare\/ without all that underwear?\/<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> If snow is needed let it fall\/ down within her garden wall \u2013 (Conversational) Uh, he don\u2019t mind if the garden<\/i> is covered, but he don\u2019t want them\u2013 he don\u2019t want them peaks<\/i> covered, honey.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Continues reading poem) For this padding I don\u2019t care\/ I prefer my mountains bare\/ Not obscured our cape with snow\/ for such trappings I don\u2019t go\/ Let mountains rise or foliage too\/ with timberline below the dew\/ To coverings I have objections\/ I like to view the real projections\/ Must you think it all so rude\/ to naturally let her protrude\/ to bottle her resplendid beauty\/ is our precious pressing duty\/ If support is sometimes needed\/ let those peaks be unimpeded\/ Buffer (Unintelligible word)\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (reactions)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Conversational) Ohh<\/i>\u2013 Some of the faces in here!<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> (unintelligible) covers that white mountain, too.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yes, he\u2019s very, very hung up on white<\/i> flesh. Very hung up on white<\/i> flesh. He\u2019s white, so obviously, he\u2019d be hung up I guess on white flesh. Everybody likes their own image. Well, uh, I\u2019ve seen such straight faces here tonight, I shall read some more<\/i>\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Applause and cheers)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013until everybody\u2019s smilin\u2019, honey. \u2019Cause hypocrisy has no place, has no place in the human race.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Continues reading poem) Weight not down nor hide the top\/ all this hiding\u2019s got to stop\/ Lofty shoulder, rolling field\/ let more of those badlands be revealed\/ Arms extended full of grace\/ no more hidden than her face\/ If warmth is needed e\u2019er betrothed\/ let her peaks be lightly clothed\/ Furry creature holy flock\/ loosely wrapped about her smock\/ easily drawn aside by hand\/ of the shepherd of her land\/when \u2013 (Conversational) Of the shepherd of her land. This is too much. Of the shepherd of her land\u2013 See, he\u2019s not socialist, he\u2019s too\u2013 he\u2019s property-class minded here. She\u2019s a piece of property to him, a sex object. (Continues reading poem) When the summer sun doth shine\/ and in heat her fires refine\/\u2013 (Conversational) In heat. If he knew as much about women as I did, he\u2019d know he\u2019d never use that<\/i> word.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Continues reading poem) And in heat her fires refine\/quickly melts her fallen snow\/ and cascading it will go\/ with the warmth of summer love\/ baring mountain tops above\/ Like the fleecy misty cloud\u2013 (Conversational) You\u2019re still not smilin\u2019 so we\u2019re gonna continue.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I didn\u2019t want to read it, but I\u2019m led to read it until you all<\/i> get free\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Responds)<\/p>\n

(Off mike conversation inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I guess I\u2019m gonna read all night, \u2018cause you wa\u2013 you wanna stop, and I see one here and I see one back there and I see one there and I, (Stumbles over words) I guess you wanna stop. The only way you can stop is smile.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Continues reading poem) With the warmth of summer love\/ baring the mountain tops above\/ like the feecing [fleecy] mystic cloud\/ just with vapor her enshroud\/ The only vapors only flow\/ from above to veils below\/ Only bright and shining tresses\/ top our mountain\u2019s maiden dresses\/ Ec\u2013 Accent all her naked beauty\/ with less on our nudie cutie\/<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> She\u2019s a beauty with them on\/ (Pause) beauty self when robes are gone\/ don\u2019t conceal her points of interest\/ nature\u2019s course with clothes thou hinderest\/ Flowers nestle in her hair\/ twinst in hollows here and there\/ circling \u2018round the tower above\/ all proclaim her joy of love\/ Craft displays her lovely wares\/ only please the one who cares\/ Customs of conformity\/ and artificiality\/ clothed in her hypocrisy\/ never let her hidden be.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Conversational) And they still the same ones, not fa\u2013 the same ones\u2013<\/p>\n

(Off mike conversation inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yeah, I mean<\/i> it. (Stumbles over words) \u2013keep on, keep on readin\u2019<\/i> this, \u2018cause you are not in the spirit<\/i> to smile, not\u2013 unless you smile. I said to be obedient<\/i>, and that\u2019s exactly what I meant.<\/p>\n

(Off mike conversation inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You\u2019re\u2013 you\u2019re not\u2013 you need\u2013 you\u2013 you\u2019re not\u2013 you\u2019re not, uh, uh, lookin\u2019 to them. Neither of you lookin\u2019 to them, you\u2019re lookin\u2019 to me<\/i>. Free<\/i> yourself from what others do. What you<\/i> do is what counts.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered response, then applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Continues reading poem) Clothe her in hypocrisy\/ never let her hidden be\/ Methinks there\u2019d be far less desire\/ to ravish her on la\u2013 lust\u2019s cruel fire\/ In man\u2019s relentless exploration\/ if viewed with open admiration\/ her pleasing beauty clearly seen\/ would satisfy his sexy (Unintelligible word, sounds like \u201cspleen\u201d)\/ No need to strip what God created\/ nor herself be violated\/ Open view could satisfy\/ ardent longings of his eye\/ Nudeness thrills with thankful viewers\/ only look and be not doers\/\u2013 (Conversational) You know it\u2019s a funny thing about you people, you never got bothered when this was in Solomon (Song of Solomon).<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Solo\u2013 S\u2013 Solomon\u2019s full<\/i> of this. And Solomon couldn\u2019t even rhyme<\/i> as well as this<\/i> guy.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Book of Ruth never bothered\u2013 never bothered you then. You\u2019d say (draws out word) Praise the Lord. Solomon talked about her big butt and all of the\u2013 all of the peaks that he\u2019s describing, he just used different terminology. Yes, he did. S\u2013 King Solomon was inspired \u2013 the Book of Wisdom, supposedly the word of God \u2013 but it was nothin\u2019 but an open pornographic book from page to page. Solomon\u2013 Right in King James, you read it. Now people can\u2019t take<\/i> it unless it comes out of the book. They can take it when it comes out of the Book. The Good Book, \u2018cause everything good that\u2019s in that book \u00a0(Song of Solomon, Book of Ruth).<\/span> It even tells, kill your children, it\u2019s all right, it\u2019s in the Book<\/i>. Let the she-bears eat up the children, yeah. Old Elisha, bald-headed Elisha, he\u2013 Somebody come by the way and laughed at him because he had a bald head.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Little children sometimes tease people with bald heads, so they laughed at him and said \u201cbald-headed man.\u201d All they said, you\u2019re a bald headed man. He called down the she-bears, he got Jehovah God, the Lord thy God, he called him down, had him\u2013 had all<\/i> those children killed up. All<\/i> those children eaten up by the she<\/i>-bears \u00a0(2 Kings 2:23-24, \u201cand as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.\u201d).<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Archie [Ijames] said that\u2019s one of the times they lied on him again.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I believe he\u2019d done it back then.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter, unintelligible calls)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Laughs) Yeah, I do\u2013 It\u2019s just\u2013 it\u2019s just a matter of folks, uh, of being honest. Don\u2013 if you don\u2019t get shook up with Solomon<\/i>, don\u2019t get shook up with this silly old man. He\u2019s a silly old man. It\u2019s pitiful that at 60 years old, he hasn\u2019t got any more sense<\/i> than this. But you see, he\u2019s the last fading dream. (Pause) Hadn\u2019t even thought\u2013 Hadn\u2019t thought about\u2013 meditate on that. (Pause) Well, and the other part of him, you see, he has some sense, moneyboys, big moneyboys. (Reads) Big moneyboys are the minority, and to win the election, they have to have the majority of the vote behind them, so they won the vote of the prosperous hard-hat middle class and prosperous laboring class of the same kind of scare tactics Hitler used with the Jews. US has got to have a strong, tough, severe militaristic, fascist type of government in order to save the country from communism. (Conversational tone) That part, you see, you agree with. And they\u2019re after him. And I, if I was gonna join any<\/i> church, I guess I\u2019d join his.<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation<\/b>: (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I would, I would, seriously. I would join it only for one thing<\/i>. That with ten million dollars goin\u2019 out of the country a year into his pocket, I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t see the point to that. But that little piece of paper sure could be made up pretty cheap. Now, we could write a whole lot more intelligent, political synopsis and use some scriptures to back it up. How\u2013 However, we couldn\u2019t write that kind of poetry.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Nonetheless, if we did, we would\u2013 we would make one issue only. It\u2019d be our first and last publication.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s why you\u2019re still here. If Father had one little bit of wisdom, he never had a big ego, he never had an ego at all \u2013 S\u2013 Sister [Edith] Roller said, Professor Roller said \u2013 so I put nothing in writing. How much<\/i> I\u2019d like to put something in writing \u2013 \u2018cause I got a lot I could say<\/i> \u2013 but if I put anything in writing, you wouldn\u2019t be sittin\u2019 here tonight so comfortable. Some of you\u2019d be in jail, some of you\u2019d be awaiting trials and some of you would be shot<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s why I\u2019ve always known, I happen to be a master in keeping people together, and yet there\u2019s never a way you can master it in a fascist scene perfectly<\/i>. But I master it the most ably that anyone can<\/i> to hold the group together until the time is right. And you don\u2019t do it by writing<\/i>. They\u2019re gonna shoot his communes out from under him. Then<\/i> what\u2019s he gonna do? Nobody to (Unintelligible word, sound like \u201cpass\u201d). But he\u2019ll sit over there in the Swiss Alps with his millions of dollars, and he won\u2019t know the difference anyway. And he has a little\u2013 All the years, you oughta read his writings two years ago. It\u2019s all blood of Jesus, rapture, Holy Ghost or Hell. Now he\u2019s tryin\u2019 to make up for a\u2013 a\u2013 a bad conscience, you know? It\u2019s a whole lot of these church people know what\u2019s right. Tryin\u2019 to make up for a (draws out word) bad conscience. He\u2019s safe in the Swiss Alps, he\u2019s decided to preach the truth. Whole lot of preachers know\u2013 I heard old Brother Poole, elder Poole, he\u2019s as ignoramus as they come. I doubt if he can read or write very well. You know old elder Poole. I\u2013 I remember the last I knew<\/i> he couldn\u2019t write. And he couldn\u2019t read. He had to have someone do his interpreting<\/i> for him. Yeah, elder Poole, he\u2019s\u2013 he\u2019s an ignoramus, old\u2013 old ignoramus man, the poor soul, but he\u2019s made a lot of money so he shoulda had time to get an education, but he<\/i> even said Sunday (calls out) the rich get richer and the poor<\/i> getting\u2019 poorer! Said, trouble in the land. On every hand, he said. Got talkin\u2019 about the rich, and somebody must have pulled on his coattails to shut up. \u2018Cause he\u2019s changing just like that (makes sound effect). \u2018Cause he\u2019s ignorant, he wouldn\u2019t know when he was gettin\u2019 in trouble. That\u2019s one thing about old elder Poole, he\u2019s ignorant, he\u2019d get in trouble and wouldn\u2019t know it.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> So\u2013 I mean, he\u2019s ignorant. He\u2019s really ignorant. He\u2019s ignorant than my old white dog, and that\u2019s dumb.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You\u2013 You\u2013 You\u2019ve even been with Reverend Poole, you know he\u2019s ignorant. I set next to him in a convention, and I mean, that man is ignorant<\/i>. He didn\u2019t know how to get his pants<\/i> on, without Sister Poole to help him. Maddie B. Poole\u2019s the one that helped<\/i> him \u2018til she died<\/i>. She made the movement. Then she was no sooner in the grave, and he got him another<\/i> Maddie. Married his secretary. Yeah, that\u2019s always convenient. He had her led in there\u2013 ready there in the anteroom<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation:<\/b> (inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What\u2019s that now?<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation:<\/b> (inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What\u2019s that? (Pause) Yeah, just\u2013 just like Bishop Crane. Did you know that Bishop Crane, by God, he married two weeks after his wife died? Did you notice that? (Pause) Yeah, he did. I looked at that obituary. He was\u2013 he was married\u2013 he was married two<\/i> weeks after his wife died. \u2018Course he didn\u2019t know her beforehand. She was Church of God and Christ, honey, and sanctified<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation:<\/b> (inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What\u2019s that now?<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation:<\/b> (inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> He\u2019s going over to that Holy Ghost wiggling meeting, yeah\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Calls out) Isn\u2019t that right, brother?<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> That\u2019s right!<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (laughs)<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> (inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> These brothers are cool<\/i>, they\u2019re gettin\u2019 cool, they\u2019re gettin\u2019 ready. (Pause) Any question? I wanted to bring one point out of it, and that\u2019s that, they attack him because he\u2019s say\u2013 tellin\u2019 too much truth about the fascist<\/i>. [Henry] Kissinger, Nixon. Call him Nitler. Tellin\u2019 too much truth and that\u2019s\u2013 even though he\u2019s filled with uh, baloney, with all that sex stuff\u2013 has\u2013 he\u2019s gone mad<\/i> over that, but nonetheless, nonetheless, he\u2019s saying too<\/i> much. Can\u2019t say anything in this country. The only thing they want you to do in church is talk about the furniture of Heaven, temperature of Hell. If you talk about anything else, you\u2019ve had<\/i> it. So are you ready?<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> (inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> No, you\u2019re not ready, some of you, so you better get over to that Promised Land, \u2018cause you not<\/i> ready. You\u2019re not ready for the kind of hell that can break loose<\/i>, honey, when they put you in jail. \u2018Cause some of us been<\/i> there. It\u2019s wonderful. We got there for different reasons, but we been there, haven\u2019t we, honey? (Laughs) Well, it\u2019s all right. We all got together. She knows, she knows, she\u2019s been there. She\u2019s been in jail. Don\u2019t marry Velma.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (laughs) I just love to tease you over there. You just did what 99 percent of the women wanna do. She just gnashed him, honey. She couldn\u2019t love \u2018im, she left<\/i> \u2018im. Sliced<\/i> \u2018im. (laughs) It\u2019s wonderful. Yes, Mother [Virginia Vera] Taylor?<\/p>\n

Taylor:<\/b> Pastor Jim, I\u2019d like to, uh, ask the meaning<\/i> of this\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Meaning of what?<\/p>\n

Taylor:<\/b> Uh, for a couple of meeting\u2013 uh, meetings when we go down to LA, I\u2019ve been staying in Pasadena, and I hate Pasadena but I\u2019m staying there for a reason and, uh\u2013 I see\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I hate Redwood Valley, but I\u2019m stayin\u2019 there for a reason, too\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Taylor:<\/b> (Laughs) But every business place and every store that amounts to anything<\/i> in Pasadena has an orange<\/i>-colored painting on the roof of the letters \u2013 like the address is 1521 Orange Grove \u2013 they\u2019re on top of the roof. They have painted it in orange color on top of the roofs of all<\/i> business places in Pasadena, and I\u2019m wondering about that\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, you see, they\u2019re gettin\u2019 ready for the revolution. So those helicopters know where to land. You know how quick they landed on us there in Los Angeles? You remember?<\/p>\n

Taylor:<\/b> Yes, yes\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> They\u2019re down there with sub-machine guns aimed on all of us. That was a nightmare. Oh, I kind of liked it, come to think about it. I mean, it was action<\/i>. Yeah, honey, they lowered the helicopters \u2013 some don\u2019t know that \u2013 tell her about it. Tell her, she don\u2019t know about it. Tell her. She was gone during that time or (unintelligible). They land the helicopter\u2013 the helicopter lowered right down, the sub-machine guns aimed on our older people and our young people, just aimed them ready\u2013 Just ready, just waitin\u2019 for one of us just to spit<\/i> wrong. They\u2019da mowed us down like dogs. (Pause) What?<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation<\/b>: (inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Thank you. (Pause) When we\u2013 when we were\u2013 when we were there\u2013<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation<\/b>: (inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yeah, they\u2019da taken as many as they want. They let us go, too. (Pause) But if we don\u2019t stick together, it won\u2019t always work. Stick together and it\u2019ll work, and if it don\u2019t work, I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m lookin\u2019<\/i> for some folk. I\u2019m lookin\u2019 for the ones that led some of these folk astray. Don\u2019t bail me out, \u2018cause you\u2019ll have to bail me out twice, \u2018cause I\u2019m lookin\u2019<\/i> for some folk. Yeah, I\u2019m lookin\u2019 for some folk, \u2018cause it\u2019ll be their fault. \u2018Cause the only thing that kept us out of that<\/i> mess was, we stuck together. Then behind us that time, Linda Swaney had her hand like that. I got a picture<\/i> of her. Then when she knew the truth<\/i>, when she wasn\u2019t livin\u2019 on a waterbed, carryin\u2019 on downtown and all the stuff she\u2019d been doin\u2019, shackin\u2019 with hol\u2013 honkeys and talkin\u2019 about killin\u2019 us niggers out here, yeah\u2013 uh, don\u2019t bail me out, you\u2019d better leave me in there, because if I get out, I\u2019m\u2013 you\u2019ll have to bail me out again. Only that<\/i> time, they won\u2019t bail you\u2013 (Pause) And I\u2019m not kiddin\u2019.<\/p>\n

Taylor:<\/b> (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Turn to, uh, vengeance of God. I no\u2013 I don\u2019t have anything in me but gentleness. But if this group of people\u2019s brought through suffering and beat up, mauled over, crushed down, because of a few of these traitors that went out, oh, how in the heaven will we look? Hope you understand this, so if you want to make your bed, you ought to not make it with traitors, \u2018cause that\u2019s no place to do it. These folks sure are playin\u2019 with fire. Sure playin\u2019 with fire\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I know\u2013 I know folks over in Brooks Hospital, Dallas, I think they call him faith \u2013 faithless I name \u2018im now \u2013 and I think they call her Janet [Phillips], and I remember all those people. I remember when Janet\u2019s wrists were cut and what her mother [Clara Phillips] asked me to do. I remember what she\u2019d call me in to do and asked Sister [Marceline] Jones if she didn\u2019t mind. I remember all the stuff I\u2019ve been through for some of these folk. I remember it too<\/i> well. Some other folk remember it, too.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I\u2013 We got addresses in Berlin, we got addresses in Dallas, honey. (Stumbles over words) the best thing people could do, if you don\u2019t want to live right, go on and do your thing on the peaks or the caves, wherever you want to, but get\u2013 get way off from us.<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Then at least you can go on and have your guilt<\/i> complex after you\u2019re gone<\/i>. \u2018Cause if you don\u2019t<\/i>, you won\u2019t have no time<\/i> for no guilt<\/i> complex. \u2018Cause these folks all gonna have a guilt<\/i> complex, if they go on livin\u2019<\/i> after we\u2019re gone. If they don\u2019t get away<\/i> from us, they ain\u2019t gonna have no time for no guilt complex\u2013 \u2018cause the Spirit<\/i>, the Holy Spirit, you<\/i> know the Spirit\u2013<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013that Italian-Jew<\/i> over there knows the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit <\/i>is gonna move<\/i> in and, like Sister Minnie [Buckley] said, is gonna (cries out) snuff \u2018em out\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Applause and cheers)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yeah, what? Still feel that way, Sister Minnie? (Pause) I said, do you still feel that way about our enemies, that they should be snuffed out? Hmmm? Sometimes.<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation<\/b>: (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What were you sayin\u2019 there? You did\u2013 I\u2019d like to hear that comment\u2013<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation<\/b>: (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yeah, I\u2019m just wonderin\u2019 about that. Wonderin\u2019 about your lack of enthusiasm<\/i> when you made that statement. Bothers the\u2013 the chief paranoid in the universe these days. That\u2019s true (unintelligible word). I was healthy<\/i> until I got around people. Some of you were, too. You are sure paranoid now. What\u2019d they tell<\/i> you? Minnie, what they tell<\/i> you over at that place? What\u2019d those folk have to say<\/i> about us over at that place? I think that\u2019s uh, (unintelligible) make it intelligent, uh, question for it, I\u2019ve probably not wording it too clear.<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation<\/b>: (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I don\u2019t care whether I\u2019ve got five hundred enemies or twenty\u2013 \u2018Cause I know me, myself with (unintelligible) right hand, when the spirit moves, I can take care of 250 of \u2018em.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Mary Stahl\u2013 Mary Tschetter can take care of the other 250. (Pause) Edith said you\u2019re surrounded by enemies. What did\u2013 what\u2019d they have to say<\/i> about us?<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>Oh uh, (Pause) the situation was uh, kinda like\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yeah, Sally [Stapleton], he threatened you. He threatened to kill Telly, Teddy Ballard. If uh\u2013 Wayne [Pietela] threatened to kill<\/i> him if they had anything to do with us. What\u2019d she have to say about us? We haven\u2019t threatened to kill anybody.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>She\u2019s making fun of the whole bunch, and she\u2019s doing it to the other aides who work down there that\u2013 She\u2019s gonna hafta win those concentration camps. She\u2019s gonna die. She doesn\u2019t care. She\u2019s just hafta take what\u2019s goin\u2019 on out here.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s not all she said out here too. Bless your hearts. She says that awfullest thing you ever did hear. Sh\u2013 You ever hear her talk, Minnie?<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>(Pause) That\u2019s the gist of it, uh, that I can remember it offhand, and uh, that uh, she was dancin\u2019 one (unintelligible) and she said, uh, uh, she didn\u2019t care about concentration camps<\/a>. She was gonna die anyway, \u2018cause\u2013 just give her some wine and uh, some music, and she would die happy.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Isn\u2019t she sweet\u2013 What do you think of that? What do you think of her for sayin\u2019 that?<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>Uh, well, most of the time I\u2019m not around to know (unintelligible word). I just get away from (unintelligible word).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What do you think of what (unintelligible, sounds like \u201cyou\u2019re saying\u201d)?<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>(Pause) Well, I think she\u2019s a bitch.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Voices in congregation<\/b>: (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>(Responding to someone?) I didn\u2019t know what he was talkin\u2019 about. I mean, I heard so much out there\u2013 (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You see, you have to\u2013 uh, I know, while sittin\u2019 in the office of revelation all the time, I\u2013 I get paranoid these days about my own mother<\/i>. I would. Hmm?<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation<\/b>: (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Applause and Laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation<\/b>: (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yeah, she runs around with Jim Cobb, Sr. They all run around. I know their comings and goings. I know who they\u2019ve threatened to kill, murder. I know \u2018em all. I mean, they\u2019ve threatened\u2013 they\u2019ve threatened to kill\u2013 one of them threatened to even burn down this place with their own brothers and sisters<\/i> in it. I know\u2013 We had\u2013 we had our pain<\/i>, we had our pain. And others in the same family. Sister Ava [Ava Cobb, aka Ava Brown] this week made up a program that will help us make resources\u2013 get resources into our cause, and they\u2019re just simply brilliant. Same house, one left and one taken. That\u2019s pain. And somebody\u2019s<\/i> gonna pay for the pain that\u2019s been caused to the families that have split up in here. Yeah, they\u2019re gonna pay. Somebody\u2019s gonna pay for it. That\u2019s the (unintelligible)\u2013 I don\u2019t\u2013 It\u2019s not me I\u2019m worried about. It\u2019s some of the families had to go through this, children\u2019s had to go through it. People that worship had to be\u2013 had to take them off their pedestal. That\u2019s tough. Bunch of people gettin\u2019 guns, exercise, uh, shootin\u2019 target range, and puttin\u2019 different ones of our faces up there. Say, Father, you\u2013 when Father talks kind of judgmental, he\u2019s got a very good reason to.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> The\u2013 the board\u2013 the governing board can tell you all about it. We don\u2019t try to keep any governing information above you, we just talk business, and we are glad to talk about anything you want to talk about. We don\u2019t want to keep any secrets from you. We don\u2019t want one class above another class. You see people that\u2019re in council or government positions that\u2019re acting like they\u2019re a little above you, then you\u2013 you let us know, \u2018cause we don\u2019t want none of that. Everything that goes on in the administration of this church has always been told right here. If you had an ear to hear\u2013 If you had an ear to hear. You say, well, why\u2013 why don\u2019t you just lay it all out? Obviously<\/i>, if we laid it all out<\/i> in here, our enemies<\/i> would know before we even got started<\/i>\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013so you have to meet here, there and everywhere through the night and here in the valley and then sometimes in Palo Alto, wherever<\/i>. You don\u2019t know how much we go all night long this, that and the other place, gettin\u2019 ourselves together, but we\u2019re not tryin\u2019 to keep anything<\/i> from you. Not a thing. I wish we could take you all, but 80 is about all you can get in one room<\/i>. Then you feel like you\u2019re mackerel. I\u2019d take you all (unintelligible sentence) the most, I would. That\u2019s the truth. I hope we can get someplace, some sense so we\u2019re not in constant fights<\/i> where we have to have a continual reference to prior battles, continue with information goin\u2019 back and forth, uh, or we can make alternate shifts<\/i> of governing people. But we\u2019re in such a damn battle<\/i> with our enemies<\/i>, that we have to have the backlog of information\u2013 if you don\u2019t have all that backlog of information, it\u2019d take you six months to get it. Say, well, what does he mean? What do I mean? I mean, we gotta plan for every enemy<\/i> of this holy cause!<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Applause and cheers)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Uh, Minnie? Minnie? Minnie? You don\u2019t clap when I say things like that. Now that makes us nervous. You\u2019re sorry<\/i> if you make me nervous? My God, you may be more than that one day. When you set here and don\u2019t clap, I mean, I\u2019m tellin\u2019 you, this time and time\u2019s come, uh, I\u2019m not talkin\u2019 about people who leave, we\u2019ve got all kinds of people who leave, I\u2019ve helped. When people go out here and take pictures of my people and shoot<\/i> at \u2018em, uh, you better tell me, when I say somethin\u2019 that there\u2019s gonna be judgment visited upon them by the spirit of truth, I want everybody in this house to clap, or I wanna know why<\/i> they\u2019re not clappin\u2019.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Sustained applause and cheers)<\/p>\n

Voices in congregation<\/b>: (inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (clears throat) (Pause) Now obviously\u2013 obviously, somethin\u2019s ailin\u2019 you, Minnie. (Pause) I love you, I don\u2019t want there to be miscommunication. Miscommunication\u2019s bad.<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>No, it\u2019s not, uh\u2013 it\u2019s nothin\u2019, it uh\u2013 (Pause)<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> You just sorry that you made him nervous\u2013 (unintelligible). Why\u2013 You knew you were not, uh, in tune with him. You knew he was indicating that very strongly, yet you didn\u2019t show any\u2013 any uh, willingness to respond. What was wrong?<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>Uh\u2013 (Pause)<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> You didn\u2019t respond when you\u2013 You knew\u2013 He indicated you were not in tune with him. You were dissatisfied with your attitude. Why didn\u2019t you respond favorably when he indicated that, or show that he\u2013 he was dissatisfied by your attitude? Why didn\u2019t you change it?<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>(Pause) I don\u2019t know. I guess he was (unintelligible). I said\u2013 I guess I\u2019m just caught up in myself. I\u2019m\u2013 I am sorry.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You\u2019re sorry. It was nice the way\u2013 the way you said I\u2019m sorry I make you nervous, it\u2019s something like that phrase, uh, it\u2019s such a trite, insensitive phrase, I can\u2019t think of what I did\u2013 I can\u2019t think of what it is when people say, you make me so angry because I know they don\u2019t mean it at all. What is that phrase or that saying? Sorry<\/i> \u2018bout that\u2013 Smart-aleck kind of remark, but it means that in another way. I\u2019m sorry if I made you nervous, but that\u2019s your problem. That\u2019s what they\u2019re really saying<\/i>. That\u2019s really what\u2013 that\u2019s what\u2013 what one says<\/i> when you say it like that. I\u2019m sorry<\/i> about you being nervous. That\u2019s your problem. And my problem\u2019s your problem<\/i>, Minnie. I want to know what\u2019s bothering you. And I want to be your father and I want to be your friend, and if I\u2019m not, it\u2019s your fault, not mine, because I\u2019m certainly willing to do anything to be that.<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>Uh, that\u2019s true, and I am, uh\u2013 Lately I have, I\u2019ve been in (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, you see\u2013 that\u2019s sweet\u2013 That\u2019s sweet of you, because it\u2013 and that\u2019s why I get paranoid because every seed of loss of vision, every seed of this (unintelligible) it always begins with that. This getting lukewarm (unintelligible) and lukewarm (unintelligible) and that could lead\u2013 where does it end? Look at some of these people. Who would ever think that people that once sit in our midst were taking pictures? Tim Stoen, he had it right out of the mouth (unintelligible word) people going out of this place\u2013 They don\u2019t know who\u2019s with us and who\u2019s not with us, and we don\u2019t either, but we\u2019re glad that we got \u2018em all taped. Every blessed one, we don\u2019t talk to them unless we tape it. Don\u2019t you talk to them. So they tape these bastards (unintelligible). So we\u2019ve got their own witnesses that they\u2019ve talked against each other, plot against each other, talkin\u2019 \u2018bout killin\u2019 each other. We hear them in bed with each other, we\u2019ve got it all. (Pause) By consent<\/i>. We didn\u2019t put ours in there. We don\u2019t sneak in, put no tapes on people. We don\u2019t believe<\/i> in that. We don\u2019t believe<\/i> in puttin\u2019 bugs. They gave<\/i> us their tapes. We want \u2018em to give tape on the other. One of them tape one\u2013 I never heard such a ugly<\/i> state of affairs. It\u2019d break my heart, if some of my people could get the mess (unintelligible word). Some of those girls are goin\u2019 to bed with boys tryin\u2019 to get them, people that left the cause like Steve Buckmaster [phonetic] did, dirt, left all that money down there. Larry Schacht couldn\u2019t get the money, couldn\u2019t get two thousand dollars, took a miracle of connections of who I knew in high places to get the money loose, \u2018cause he didn\u2019t even bother to sign<\/i> over, so we could get the money to continue<\/i> to educate Larry Schacht. And they want to get him into<\/i> their movement, and the way they get him is that uh, Terri [Cobb Pietela] and Mickey [Touchette] go to bed with him when they don\u2019t want to. Try to hold him in that way. I mean, these people are sick<\/i>. Got into the awful sickness you ever saw in your life. And I don\u2019t mean to say I hear<\/i> about it, I listen<\/i> to it. We\u2019ve all listened<\/i> (Pause) \u2019cause one\u2019ll get mad at the other one, and when they get mad at the other one, then they\u2019ll come tell\u2013 give us their tapes. Uh, (Unintelligible word) the wickedness<\/i> of some people today. Just because of startin\u2019<\/i> out with\u2013 gettin\u2019 caught up in themselves. That\u2019s where it starts. And it\u2019s good to deal with it, and you ought to deal with it with everybody, and everybody ought to deal with it just as quickly as you did, rather than be defensive and go all around red robin\u2019s barn and say yup, yeah, I\u2019m defensive. Caught up with your own self. And maybe it\u2019s somethin\u2019 that uh, we neglected, we can help<\/i> you with, \u2018cause you\u2019ve been a good<\/i> worker, you been a good nurse, you\u2019ve been a committed person, you\u2019ve done a lot<\/i> with your children, your Baptist minister husband forsook you and took off. Uh, we don\u2019t uh, we want to be your friend. We want to be your comrade. We don\u2019t want to see you get in the hell that they\u2019re in. They can\u2019t even trust<\/i> each other. When the one\u2019s out of the\u2013 out of the sight of each other, they talk about killin\u2019<\/i> each other. How they\u2019re gonna do it, in vivid detail. We don\u2019t want our people to get caught up in a mess like that. (Pause) \u2018Cause I have someone against <\/i>them. It\u2019s that they weaken<\/i> us. Not much, \u2018cause we make a mighty, mighty<\/i> impact. But they\u2013 they, uh\u2013 enemies never can hurt you until they get somebody from within. Always<\/i> treason begins within. Takes a Judas<\/i> inside (Gospel accounts of Judas’ betrayal in Matthew\u00a026-27, Mark 14, Luke 22 and John 13).<\/span> So that\u2019s why I have somewhat against them because they left their first love, and as bad as I hate to face it, and as gentle as I am, I have to face that judgment<\/i> will have to fall on them one day\u2013 (speaks to someone) Yes?<\/p>\n

Unidentified male: <\/b>That\u2019s why I returned (Unintelligible word) because if the\u2013 in view of uh, (Unintelligible word) here of what you are presenting, admitting that these two have tracked something, they would need to find out what is<\/i> the trouble (unintelligible)\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s true\u2013 In a (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Unidentified male: <\/b>\u2013see and relate to that<\/i>. Uh\u2013 What is<\/i> the problem (Unintelligible word) that has uh, caused you to be so removed from the situation that\u2019s so grave as Father presents. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Unidentified woman:<\/b> (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jack Beam: <\/b>It really can\u2019t be that simple, because if you\u2019re<\/i> in\u2013 if you\u2019re having problems or difficulty that so\u2013 that you\u2019re so submerged, we\u2013 Father wants to relate<\/i> to that problem. Because he does, we want to be involved<\/i>. So you should spell it out, and give us a chance (Pause) to be that source of help (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Woman (Minnie?):<\/b> (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Are you offended at uh, anything that\u2019s happened to you in this church? I have a feeling you are.<\/p>\n

Woman (Minnie?):<\/b> Sometimes, yeah, uh\u2013 (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Pause) You offended one of the leaders of this church?<\/p>\n

Woman (Minnie?):<\/b> (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Are you sure? (Pause) I wouldn\u2019t bring it up at all (Unintelligible word).<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>Well, I think\u2013 (cut off)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Subconscious is a deep, deep thing. It will dig and dig and dig, and I\u2013 (Pause) and I\u2019ve known\u2013 know what\u2019s going on inside you\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/b>I think (Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2018Cause that\u2013 that person showed love<\/i>, concern. That person\u2019s got a lot<\/i> of love and concern. \u2018Cause I know my people better than you do. See? Just like I<\/i> would know you<\/i> better than somebody else would. (Pause) Some things she\u2019s ever told me about, I just\u2013 I just know. Don\u2019t let (unintelligible) things from a long way, so easily, so easily you can misinterpret someone\u2019s actions. And you can interpret some things\u2013<\/p>\n

(Loud bang; reactions from crowd; Tape volume suddenly increases)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yes, Edith?<\/p>\n

Edith: <\/b>Can I say something here? Uh\u2013 Minnie, last winter, when I was sick, covered<\/i> for me down there for two<\/i> months, and I don\u2019t think she\u2019s got over that. I mean, she pulled herself down, now she\u2019s working with a two hundred blood pressure over a hundred and ten.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Two hundred blood pressure over a hundred and ten\u2013<\/p>\n

Minnie:<\/b> That\u2019s not it, Father\u2013 you\u2019re just\u2013<\/p>\n

Edith: <\/b>Yes she is\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, of course, two hundred blood pressure over a hundred and ten will not help<\/i> you out very much. And there\u2019s a reason for two hundred blood pressure that\u2019s uh, uh, (Stumbles over words) neurological, I mean, not a\u2013 a neurosthenic nature\u2013 a nervous nature. You shouldn\u2019t have no blood pressure that high.<\/p>\n

Edith: <\/b>I think it\u2019s part of the pressure\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Hmmm?<\/p>\n

Edith: <\/b>Part of the pressure down there, I think.<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>It\u2019s not now\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What is your blood pressure now?<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>Uh\u2013 Hmm\u2013 Yesterday it was uh, uh, a hundred and eighty over ninety, or somethin\u2019 like that.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, ninety is the one you need to worry about, it\u2019s down. But a hundred and eighty\u2019s still too high. There\u2019s a lot festerin\u2019 inside you, that\u2019s causin\u2019 that blood pressure to go up. (Pause) And you ought to talk it out. That\u2019s what our friends are for, that\u2019s what we\u2019re for. That\u2019s what council\u2019s<\/i> for. Council don\u2019t\u2013 Sometimes people say, they don\u2019t like us. No, council do<\/i> like you. They wouldn\u2019t counsel all night, night after night, if they didn\u2019t like you. You can\u2019t expect them always to be just sugar and spice and everything\u2019s nice, when you\u2019re up night and day as we are all up<\/i> every night and every day. But uh, they wanna help,<\/i> and I<\/i> want to help, and the congregation<\/i> wants to help.<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> And Edith is uh\u2013 That was, uh, relevant, but covering for you alone wouldn\u2019t be what\u2019s bothering her. I think there\u2019s more<\/i> than a physical disturbance. But we want to get you out<\/i> from under that pressure. Maybe you should get away from the place. You don\u2019t have to live there. You don\u2019t have to work there. Certainly, you don\u2019t work there at the risk of your health<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Unidentified Woman: <\/b>Well Father, I don\u2019t know. Maybe I shouldn\u2019t even feel<\/i> this way, but I was<\/i> concerned, because about two weeks ago, (sighs) uh, Minnie asked me several questions about my daughter and asked me if she was away from\u2013 why she hadn\u2019t been back to work out there, and if it was because of an injury to her hand, and she questioned\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Because what?<\/p>\n

Unidentified Woman: <\/b>An injury to her hand, and would she be back and just lots of questions and yet, you had said, not once<\/i>, but several times in open meetings what had happened about my daughter with Sally.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yeah, Sally poisoned her\u2013<\/p>\n

Unidentified Woman: <\/b>And I wonder<\/i>\u2013 I couldn\u2019t help but won\u2013 wonder why she was asking me those questions<\/i> when she was working out there with Sally, and when she\u2013 everybody knew<\/i> what had happened.<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>I didn\u2019t know that\u2013<\/p>\n

Unidentified Woman: <\/b>You didn\u2019t know?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> It shouldn\u2019t\u2019ve been any<\/i> concern to you. I find when we get unhappy, we\u2019re always more interested in what\u2019s going on with traitors who\u2019ve left than we are [with] what\u2019s goin\u2019 on inside.<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>I didn\u2019t know then\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> No, but I know, but I\u2019m tellin\u2019 you that, darlin\u2019\u2013<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>Oh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> It\u2019s a\u2013 it\u2019s a\u2013 it\u2019s a\u2013 it\u2019s a\u2013 I, I know a lot about patterns. When we get unhappy or disturbed, we\u2019ll look back or we\u2019ll look out rather than look\u2013 look in. Look at what we got. We\u2019ll not count our blessings as much as we count our problems. And we\u2019ll look for others who have rebelled subconsciously. It may be (draws out word) way\u2013 uh, uh, obviously<\/i>, you\u2019ve got a lot of subconscious distress, or you wouldn\u2019t be havin\u2019 a blood pressure at your<\/i> age like that. A lot about yourself you don\u2019t even know<\/i>, or your blood pressure won\u2019t get up<\/i> that high, at your age. That\u2019s why we\u2019re fr\u2013 that\u2019s what friends<\/i> are for. Talk things through. Shift yourself, folks. Shift. Shift.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>It\u2019s not a griddle<\/i>, darlin\u2019, we\u2019re not\u2013 we\u2019re not\u2013 uh, you\u2019re not on a griddle, you been a very good soul. (Pause) Now I don\u2019t know if this is truth or not, but uh, this is as (Unintelligible word) children get things reported, I understand from Frances Buckley that Minnie has ordered her to stay away from Pat Grunnet and Mary Ann Casanova, supposedly because they stole her children\u2019s clothing last year or before<\/i>, when\u2013 when they supervised her children then. Frances uh, asked some questions about it recently, asked to take\u2013 uh, asked (Stumbles over words) if she could live<\/i> there, we uh\u2013 uh\u2013 want to know, is there anything there that uh, that you might like to talk about? Is that an\u2013 any problem over that? Did you feel so that the Pat Grunnet and (Stumbles over words), those would steal, or is that a misunderstanding?<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>No, I never said that she stole them. I said they got misplaced and uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Unidentified male: <\/b>(Unintelligible) Did it upset you (unintelligible), I mean, how (Unintelligible)?<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>Oh no\u2013 no\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Frances, have you told anyone, darlin\u2019, that uh, your mother thought that uh\u2013 uh\u2013 that uh\u2013 that uh, these two stole from you?<\/p>\n

Frances: <\/b>Did I tell anyone that uh, Pat and\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Did you\u2013 did you tell anyone<\/i>?<\/p>\n

Frances: <\/b>Yeah, I told uh, like\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Did you just\u2013 did you\u2013 do you use the word? You don\u2019t need to tell uh, all who you told or what, because uh\u2013 uh, that isn\u2019t uh, the important issue I want to find. Did you say that your mother<\/i> said that uh, Sister Casanova and Sister Grunnet stole your clothes?<\/p>\n

Frances: <\/b>Sometimes I used that and sometimes I said swiped.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, \u201cswipe\u201d and \u201csteal\u201d are the same. Who\u2013 who used that? Did your mother say that uh, that uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Frances: <\/b>No.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, why did you say that\u2013 that your mother said it, honey?<\/p>\n

Frances: <\/b>(Pause) I don\u2019t know\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, you realize what you put your mother\u2013 you make\u2013 you make a lot of bad blood<\/i> for your mother. That\u2019s what the\u2013 these things ought not to be allowed to grow in a church. I know I\u2019m busy \u2013 you try to keep problems from me\u2013 but you shouldn\u2019t keep those<\/i> kind of problems. Sister Casanova and uh, Sister Grunnet should\u2019ve uh, brought it uh, though they\u2019re big\u2013 big-hearted<\/i> people and\u2013 You don\u2019t need to get into this. Uh\u2013 My\u2013 I don\u2019t want to get into the interaction of it, but uh, if someone is accusing you of stealing \u2013 or you think<\/i> they are \u2013 many times there\u2019s (clears throat) a lie behind it or a misunderstanding, and children\u2013 children can uh, definitely cause misunderstandings, particularly when they want to manipulate something that they wa\u2013 they need<\/i> and may well, and j\u2013 j\u2013 justifiably need<\/i> it, but uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Unidentified person:<\/b> (whispers to Jones)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>\u2013Yeah, good\u2013 (Unintelligible word)\u2013 So I would uh\u2013 I, I would uh, be awfully careful, darlin\u2019, not to say that your mother said you stole. You mother never said that they stole your clothes or swiped your clothes, that right?<\/p>\n

Frances: <\/b>Mm-hmm\u2013 [Yes].<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Did you tell them that\u2013<\/p>\n

Frances: <\/b>She\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Hmmm?<\/p>\n

Frances: <\/b>She said that uh, they misplaced them because\u2013 see, they put uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Misplaced, though, isn\u2019t the same as swiping and stealing<\/i>, honey. You see, you\u2013 you make your mother lookin\u2019 like she accused them of stealing<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>I didn\u2019t order her to stay away from \u2018em. I just said she couldn\u2019t stay<\/i> with them.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> And what was the reason for that, honey, because of the clothes? What was the reason that you didn\u2019t, that you didn\u2019t want\u2013<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>That\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s the way I felt at the time that uh, too much was comin\u2019 up missin\u2019, you know, at the time that I told her that uh, she couldn\u2019t stay with them.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> If you put it that way, you see, it sounds like you think that uh, that their missin\u2019 was a design<\/i>. (Pause) If you said it like that, too many things are comin\u2019 up missin\u2019, I could see how the child picked up from your subtle\u2013 your\u2013 your body language and even your verbal<\/i> language that uh, you were accusing them of being thiefs. It\u2019s a hard thing to live down, being a thief. Like some people circulating that Archie and Rosie [Ijames] would steal. Now, I don\u2019t know who in the world would ever<\/i> suggest that Archie and Rosie would steal, particularly things uh, you know uh, (Stumbles over words) that they don\u2019t have<\/i> to steal, that belong<\/i> to them.<\/p>\n

Woman in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Their own house. Uh, I don\u2019t know why people tell that kind of stuff. If you got any question, you should get up and\u2013 and say what you got on your mind<\/i> and not give people bad reputations.<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You<\/i> really don\u2019t think Pat Grunnet and uh, Casanova would, on purpose, lose your things, do you?<\/p>\n

Minnie: <\/b>No\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> But you see how that sounded? The way I heard<\/i> it, if I were just listening, I would think you were implying<\/i> that they were irresponsible<\/i> at best, and maybe purposably losing your clothes. Now<\/i>, am I misinterpreting what I heard?<\/p>\n

(Several people talking at once)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Did you\u2013 would you\u2019ve picked that up in that conversation? Innocent conversations can carry a load<\/i> to a child, and it can<\/i> be irresponsibility \u2013 could be<\/i> \u2013 but we wanna get this differentiated between that and thievery<\/i>. As I understand, they\u2013 they have been packed\u2013 we couldn\u2019t hardly find<\/i> some of their things and I know that that\u2019s been\u2013 they\u2019ve lived in quarters without water<\/i> for weeks and weeks. Hasn\u2019t been easy to house as many children as they have, but they\u2013 Children and them seem to hit it off, and uh, believe me, there are more things important and sometimes than what do the children have all their clothes<\/i>? Yeah, but I\u2019m not into that, that\u2019s something you have to decide. Every family has to decide how much they want to uh, extend<\/i> their children into a larger family relationship. (Pause) Anybody else have anything to say on that subject? You should be careful with all<\/i> property these days. You should be well<\/i> organized. We oughtn\u2019t to waste a damn thing<\/i>. We ought to be really<\/i> careful. Yes?<\/p>\n

Unidentified Woman: <\/b>I was just going to say, Minnie, talked\u2013 you talked to me one night uh, when we were on security, and you told me about how proud you were of your children and how much progress they\u2019ve made in this family, and I think that you ought to try to get<\/i> some of the things off your chest<\/i>, the things that are bothering<\/i> you, because uh, you\u2013 I think you would feel that responsibility to your children<\/i>. So many of our children have had to go through the pain of separation from their parents because of the parents\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Shh!!<\/p>\n

Unidentified Woman: <\/b>\u2013drawing away. And I don\u2019t think you want your children to have to go through that\u2013 (Pause)<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> We\u2019ve always<\/i> been able to talk over things (Unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, I\u2019m gonna say this, and I mean this, I mean this seriously for your welfare. Anytime you notice anyone not clapping, anytime you notice anyone not singing, anytime you notice anyone not standing, for their<\/i> sake and<\/i> the group\u2019s sake, you better notice<\/i> them and report it immediately, because you may be, uh, saving your group from trouble, and saving the person themselves from some kind of hurt. Now these are uncertain times, and I mean, you\u2019re not being a fink<\/i> to report when you notice people\u2019s bad attitudes. You may be saving a person from self-destruction and the group from some real harm<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> If people had been wise as they shoulda been and reported some things that we\u2019d known\u2013 it\u2019s an awfully good thing that I<\/i> had the sense to not listen to\u2013 Nearly everybody in this church structure \u2013 with some pleasant exceptions \u2013 some of the best<\/i> people in this church wanted to put Linda Swaney as our treasurer. And if Linda Swaney had been made our treasurer and took off with our money\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013uh, I would\u2019ve already been executed in the gas chamber. So it\u2019s mighty<\/i> good that I had the sense not<\/i> to let her become our treasurer.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s how close<\/i> it almost came, \u2018cause people who had real<\/i> sincere dedication, hard work in this cause, s\u2013 uh, devoted hours, night and day, said she\u2019s<\/i> the one. Eva\u2019s<\/i> too hard worked, it\u2019s too heavy for Eva [Pugh], she\u2019s getting in her senior years, oughta be able to retire. It wasn\u2019t displeasure with Eva. But they thought uh, she had a lot of secretarial skill and knowledge and training that Eva didn\u2019t have, and it wouldn\u2019t be the pressure on Eva and uhh-uhh [No], I wouldn\u2019t let nobody<\/i> get her hands on the money except the Pughs [James and Eva] and their sister, sister Swinney, that\u2019s helped them. And mighty God bless good that I did\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013\u2018cause nobody woulda stole our money without a lot of trouble. Ooh, lots of trouble.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Sustained applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> So, for goodness<\/i> sakes, everyone notice. Be your brother and sister\u2019s keeper (Genesis 4:9, \u201cAnd the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother\u2019s keeper?\u201d),<\/span> and you\u2019re not doing a good enough job. No<\/i> one is doing as good<\/i> a job as they could in that department. You should watch people\u2019s every<\/i> action.<\/p>\n

Male in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013because our life<\/i> is at stake.<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013the Promised Land, somebody gets moody, they got plenty of room to get away from it all. There\u2019s twelve thousand, tw\u2013 27,000 acres. People can get away<\/i> from it. They\u2019re not gonna hurt <\/i>the cause. Here people don\u2019t get<\/i> away. It seems they can do\u2013 do destructive things. Go into groups that are anti \u2013 anti-Christ, anti-socialist \u2013 and that\u2019s dangerous to you. I\u2019m not speaking of Minnie, she hasn\u2019t done anything, but why\u2013 we\u2013 we have to explore every situation. It seems like, just like uh, flypaper draws flies. Sally Stapleton picked up her daughter wasn\u2019t here any time as Sister [Geraldine] Bailey, picked her up. She was a nice girl. Her girl\u2013 her daughter wanted to look for some reason, I guess, not to be dedicated, and so Sally gave her plenty. Gave her plenty of lies.<\/p>\n

Woman in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2018Cause I doubt she ever bothered about to tell<\/i> her that her daughter had stolen uh, I don\u2019t know how many thousand\u2013 couple of thousand dollars. She stole off of [Christine] Bates, stole off of uh, Hazel Dashiell, and her daugh\u2013 her mother covered<\/i> for her daughter. About\u2013 I doubt if she ever told<\/i> that too much, but I will say that\u2013 that\u2013 it\u2019s a tendency to people when, rather than face up to something like that, they always<\/i> start blaming the people that they\u2019ve done wrong. People can\u2019t live with guilt. I don\u2019t know anyone in this uh, universe that lives with guilt and works well with it except me. I can live with guilt and function. Most people can\u2019t live with guilt. Say, you feel guilt? You bet you. I feel guilt that I didn\u2019t explore Linda Swaney\u2019s situation more and avoid getting her, as she said on our tape \u2013 we have it \u2013 uh, she bragged, I look<\/i> for the weak ones and took them out. \u2018Cause I\u2019ve got no character. I planned it well. Had Janet\u2013 well, it\u2019s on tape. You don\u2019t have to take my word for it. If you want to hear it, we\u2019ll play it for you. Please stay awake for me now, and listen to this. (whistles loudly) (Pause) She said, I planned it well. I have guilt<\/i> about that. I wish I\u2019d been able to see evil better or uh, maybe that\u2019s not even the word, see frustrations better. (truck passes by) Uh, one thing I wish (pause) she obviously was tellin\u2019 other people she wanted to go to bed with me, and I didn\u2019t respond to it. I wish I\u2019d even done that<\/i>. (Pause) You understand what I\u2019m sayin\u2019?<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Maybe some way, through the contact, she would\u2019ve uh, felt other than rejected. I never openly rejected her, never rejected anybody in my life. No woman could ever say I spurned you. They said hell hath no fury like a woman spurned\u2013 well, of course, a lot of those are chauvinistic clich\u00e9s, but some of them have some ground of being<\/i> \u2013 no doubt<\/i> \u2013 or they wouldn\u2019t\u2019ve gone down through the generations<\/i> as they have. But I\u2013 I must say I have some guilt<\/i>. I wish I\u2019da tried<\/i> it, \u2018cause if you go to bed with me, you learn<\/i> somethin\u2019 about yourself. Hmm\u2013 That\u2019s why nobody\u2019s uh, gettin\u2019 in line to go to bed with me tonight.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s true. \u2018Cause I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t build something around me. I don\u2019t build any kind of uh, personality worship. Man, it\u2019s all psychotherapy when you\u2019re with me, in bed or at the table or over a cup of tea, it\u2019s all psychotherapy. Lotta love<\/i>, but it\u2019s so damn revealing that when you get through with it, it\u2019s so heavy. It\u2019s not because I can\u2019t function sexually, I can function better sexually than anybody. It\u2019s because that I know that\u2019s not where people\u2019s at. Sex<\/i> is animal aggression, as we now have it in this life. It\u2019s sm\u2013 all frustration, aggression, aggression, aggression. So we have to dig through<\/i> that aggression and find out what\u2019s behind it. And maybe if somebody\u2019d dug through her aggression, we wouldn\u2019t be in the trouble she\u2019s in. Maybe if someone had shown her, Linda, you\u2019re beautiful. Not for sex<\/i>, and whether you\u2019re sexually \u2013 what you think you oughta be or not \u2013 is not important<\/i>. That there\u2019s something in you,<\/i> \u2018cause the thing she kept saying \u2013 when we got it back after she left, she came back one time but her pride was too much \u2013 said I\u2019ve got no character, I\u2019ve got no character, I\u2019ve got no character. And that\u2019s a ballgame I don\u2019t know how to play, I don\u2019t know how to deal with people that feel that way about themselves. \u2018Course I know some magnificent people who think they\u2019ve got no character, but you still\u2013 you st\u2013 keep comin\u2019 and you keep payin\u2019 your commitment, and you\u2019re the most beautiful people of all<\/i>, \u2018cause you think you\u2019re assholes and you act like saints.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You see what I\u2019m tryin\u2019\u2013 I hope I\u2019m makin\u2019 myself clear.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered affirmations)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You think you\u2019re no<\/i> good, but you work every day, force yourself to work, and you still think you\u2019re no good. \u2018Cause there\u2019s only a fine difference between the Judases (chuckles) and whoever the Christs are. I only know one \u2013 me\u2013 uh, that\u2019s the only one I found yet, God knows, I\u2019m sorry to say, but uh\u2013 Even back there in history, too. Anyway, don\u2019t feel bad if you don\u2019t think you\u2019re worth anything. I\u2019d like to change that image<\/i>, because sometimes it can lead you to crazy<\/i> things. But some of you feel so rotten about yourself, and every day you do good things for people. Say well, I do it for the false reasons. I don\u2019t care what you\u2019re doin\u2019 it for. You\u2019re strugglin\u2019, you\u2019re puttin\u2019 money in to get the land, you\u2019re puttin\u2019 money in to get food, you\u2019re puttin\u2019 money in to try to save the people, the children. You get out there and work, you do guard duty to save lives. No doubt, people\u2019d been killed in this place, [if] some of you hadn\u2019t done guard duty.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Isn\u2019t no doubt about it\u2013<\/p>\n

Male in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013they\u2019da burned this place down.<\/p>\n

Woman in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> We have on\u2013 we have on tape, Terri threatening to burn it down herself. No doubt<\/i>. If our\u2013 once uh, people who been at our table and supped with us, was like my own daughter, can talk about burnin\u2019 it down, these white-necked, red-necked bigots out here, if it hadn\u2019t been for you faithful seniors and \u2013 too many times faithful seniors, yes \u2013 and young people who\u2019ve stood around this place, yeah, there\u2019da been trouble<\/i>. (Pause) So I<\/i> feel a lot of guilt. Every time somethin\u2019 goes wrong, I feel guilt. Always. I think, what could I have done differently? But most people can\u2019t live with guilt very effectively. I don\u2019t know what it\u2019s doin\u2019 to me organically. (Microphone shorts out for next few words, unintelligible) Wonderful. It\u2019s so beautiful, these microphones, I just love them. Sons of bitches.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> It\u2019s truly wonderful. Remember, I\u2019m the same one that called up the two last night\u2013<\/p>\n

Voices in congregation<\/b>: Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013brought \u2018em back from the dead and didn\u2019t move out of my seat. I\u2019m the same one that stopped that old brother Sunday, his kidneys come in there, he couldn\u2019t even flow, wouldn\u2019t even move, his kidneys would not even void. He passed that growth. Bless your heart.<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Jim? That was Joe Swaney.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013and then my friend, my friend, he came Thursday night, shoutin\u2019 the victory, he had no trouble, he urinated like a man, he said, he\u2013 I haven\u2019t urinated like that since I was s\u2013 eighteen.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> He had cancer of the prostate, blocked his entire flow. So uh\u2013 anyway, I\u2019m makin\u2019 a point, you know why I\u2019m doin\u2019 that, I\u2019m tryin\u2019 to make a point. Uh, I\u2019m the same one that cusses, the same one that heals.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Applause)<\/p>\n

(Pause)<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation<\/b>: (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (sounds sympathetic) I don\u2019t know what to tell you about that. I think it\u2019s a bigger problem than\u2013 I have so many problems, and I know that\u2013 that\u2019s why I\u2019m the safest leader, because I weigh everything. I don\u2019t make decisions quick when I got human lives involved. (Pause) I\u2013 I don\u2019t know. Yeah, I think that\u2019s\u2013 the latter paragraph\u2019s in order. The first three people can wait up here, you can start there and then go to other people in the church and ask their opinion of it. Uh, then I\u2019ll give the final decision. I like to consult<\/i>. Even though I\u2019ve had wisdom that\u2019s seen us through, when I had no way, where there was no way, I made a way. Where there was<\/i> no way.<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> One thing that bothers me somewhat about the people, that you\u2013 when I\u2019m in my most honest frame of reference, I can be very quiet and subdued, and you won\u2019t listen.<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You\u2013 it really\u2013 it really makes my heart hurt. It makes my heart ache. And when I\u2019m speaking so much from the inner soul, some folk just won\u2019t listen, pay a bit of attention, and I can shout it. And it really wouldn\u2019t make a difference. Though I shout truth, too, \u2018cause I don\u2019t specialize in anything but truth. But I could shout anything<\/i> and somebody\u2019d be Amen-ing me. That\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s a real<\/i> tragedy as I see it. \u2018Course, it\u2019s late, but it\u2019s twenty of eleven. We usually got started<\/i>\u2013 in the last few weeks, we got started<\/i> at this hour.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Some are going to go out of here about eleven, is our intention. But we\u2019re on a note of honesty and uh, soul-searching, and I hope that everybody will search<\/i> their soul like I search mine<\/i>. Then we\u2019ll have leaders standing on my right and on my left. At any moment, they could fill the vacancy, if one of the enemies did me in, which I\u2019m not uh, certainly worrying about, nor even expecting. But you have to be prepared for everything, and I wonder why some don\u2019t fill<\/i> my shoes. You think you\u2019re different than me? You think that uh\u2013 Obviously, some don\u2019t think like Professor Roller that I don\u2019t enjoy<\/i> it, because if you knew how much hell<\/i> it was, you\u2019d try to help me with the load.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s why I appreciated her testimony so much tonight, \u2018cause I knew she<\/i> knew the hell<\/i> of it. I hate<\/i> to be praised. I hate<\/i> to be uh, the\u2013 the centerpiece of the clockwork. I hate to have to set up here and everything revolve around me as the founder of socialism. I hate<\/i> that. I hate it because I know what it means<\/i>. It means that each of you expect me to be perfect<\/i>, and to fail<\/i>\u2013 I\u2019d rather die<\/i> than fail one<\/i> of you. But there\u2019s nobody on earth<\/i>, perfect. I\u2019m the closest to it that anybody\u2019ll ever get\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013but no one\u2019s perfect.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Peace. Peace (over applause). Thank you. Only clap at any time (clears throat) to affect our enemies\u2013<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation:<\/b> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I never need your claps, and there are some of you tonight, and it was sweet of you, you thought I needed your claps, you underestimate my perfection. I\u2019m way beyond that. I don\u2019t need your claps. Only as staging<\/i> for our enemies. That\u2019s the only time I need you to clap. I asked you to sing<\/i> for that reason. I asked you to dance<\/i> for that reason, but it\u2019s very hard for some of you to know<\/i> me. (Clears throat) (Pause) (Tape edit) \u2013diculous. As always\u2013 (tape edit) (Unintelligible word) There\u2019s a rumor in Indiana, all through Indiana that I am\u2013 uh, (sighs) there\u2019s a rumor in Indianapolis that you, Jim and Mike uh, the church had been run out of California and had to go to Brazil. These idiots, they\u2019re always so idiotic back there in Indiana, those b\u2013 those people in the boonies\u2013 Eva Pugh\u2019s sister said that she questioned the person over and over, and they told her it was true. She believed them and was very upset. Now, Eva\u2019s sister, Rose believed it. Now, I would tell Eva to forget her Sister Rose, if she believed it. That\u2019s what I would tell Eva.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Applause and laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s why I say, separate yourself from the flesh. Separate yourself from the family ties\u00a0(Luke 14:33, \u201cSo likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.\u201d).<\/span> If she believed that Eva would follow a man that was run out of California\u2013 Of course, that might be, if we were run out of California, we sure as hell wouldn\u2019t go to Brazil, because that\u2019s fascist<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Brazil is a fascist<\/i>, military dictatorship, but those people don\u2019t know their rear end from their front, so what can you expect out of morons<\/i>? (Clears throat)<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> But I even feel a twinge of guilt when I say that about poor people in the boonies. Every word I say, I think about it after I said it. But you can\u2019t talk as much as I talk without sayin\u2019 some words you shouldn\u2019t say\u2013<\/p>\n

Male in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s why people oughtn\u2019t to try<\/i> me. You oughtn\u2019t to try me. Don\u2019t\u2013 don\u2019t mess over me and keep it up for, like I\u2013 last night, I felt very bad. I had to blow my stack at two or three people. Settin\u2019 in my church, settin\u2019 in my dormitories, takin\u2019 advantage of my love, not givin\u2019 their money, tryin\u2019 to mess up different homes. Mes\u2013 different\u2013 mess up different marriages. That gets my dander up.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> And I wish<\/i> you wouldn\u2019t get me<\/i> to that degree, \u2018cause I always<\/i> feel bad after I\u2019ve done it, but I have to do it, because if I didn\u2019t, there\u2019d be people tearin\u2019 this house clear up. They\u2019d be tore to hell. This place would be (emphatic) tore to hell.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013if somebody didn\u2019t get in there and ride hurdle, but I\u2013 (clears throat)<\/p>\n

Male in congregation<\/b>: (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I don\u2019t give a d\u2013 (struggles over words) what the hell\u2019s goin\u2019 on back there? Everybody callin\u2019 in Indiana that\u2013 that\u2013 that I\u2019m run out to Brazil. Isn\u2019t that too much?<\/p>\n

Male in congregation<\/b>: (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Huh?<\/p>\n

Male in congregation<\/b>: It said in the paper tonight. (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (off microphone) Well, I\u2019m not in Brazil. There ain\u2019t no way I\u2019m goin\u2019 to Brazil.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Unidentified male: <\/b>Somebody else might\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> They may want<\/i> me to Brazil, but I ain\u2019t goin\u2019. If they got a news (Unintelligible word)\u2013 I don\u2019t care what these fools\u2013 they got nothin\u2019 else better to write about than we were in Brazil? Hell, the poor sterile, sick souls, they got noth\u2013 nothin\u2019 goin\u2019 for \u2018em, they can\u2019t even enjoy their TV or <\/i>their sex or their old uh, uh, crow, they can\u2019t enjoy anything, they have to talk about us. Now we\u2019re two thousand five hundred miles away from those assholes. Wh\u2013 why can\u2019t they talk about somethin\u2019 else other than us\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013right here in California? It shows<\/i> that they, uh, didn\u2019t have no livin\u2019<\/i> until\u2013 uh, when\u2013 only when we<\/i> were there, and now that we\u2019re gone, they\u2019ve lost their reason for livin\u2019.<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> They got to talk about us all the way in Indiana, whole rumor. Now, here\u2019s Alice Moton\u2019s called, the\u2013 the\u2013 the mother of Diane [Diane Moton aka Diane Wilkinson]\u2013 right, uh\u2013 mother, hell<\/i>\u2013 But anyway\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>She\u2013 uh, she\u2013 she called.<\/p>\n

Diane Wilkinson:<\/b> She called today and she uh\u2013 uh\u2013 I mean, uh, she said that be careful what you say because uh, apparently (unintelligible) \u2013<\/p>\n

(a woman laughs loudly and it\u2019s hard to hear. Another man speaks in the background).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Tape recorder. I wouldn\u2019t talk to her.<\/p>\n

Diane: <\/b>I didn\u2019t say nothin\u2019, you know, I let her blab (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Laughs) She said she didn\u2019t talk to her, she just let her talk to herself. She said if she plays it back, the tape recorder will repeat itself. Just be repeating herself. Now, that\u2019s smart,<\/i> \u2018cause everybody\u2019s got these tape recorders, and they just put a little thing on the earphone, and they pick up everything said in your room. They\u2019re\u2013 Now you can go buy \u2018em in any store, so you be awful careful who you\u2019re talking to on the telephone.<\/p>\n

Scattered in crowd<\/b>: Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Best thing to do is say a\u2013 and oh, she\u2019s an evil woman, that\u2013 that\u2013 her mother\u2019s an evil woman.<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> She wasted that money to hear herself talk, eh?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> She wasted that much money to hear herself talk. That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> So we\u2019re in Brazil. Bless their little pea-pickin\u2019 hearts.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (clears throat). (Pause) That\u2019s good. Let them get that kind of rumor. As long as they\u2019re lookin\u2019 in Brazil, they\u2019re not lookin\u2019 in the right place.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Pause, then applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I\u2019ll tell you right where that came from. Mickey Touchette\u2019s back with her old relatives, blood (stumbles over words) the old ye\u2013 honkey, bigot relatives, so Mickey Touchette\u2019s told them, that there\u2019re people in the jungles of Brazil, and then that\u2019s gone all the way through and probably someone put it on a radio broadcast, some Bible station and they all listen, (fakes a backwoods accent) \u201cWhere\u2019s Reverend Jones? He been run out of California, he\u2019s in Brazil.\u201d<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013so all those kooks<\/i> have got it, \u2018cause\u2013 Oh, I\u2019m not, I was a fascinating personality back there. Nothin\u2019 ever happened<\/i> in Indianapolis until we stirred it up.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Nothin\u2019s happened since we\u2019ve left.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Clears throat) Nothin\u2019s happened since we\u2019ve left. That\u2019s certain. They live drab, miserable lives. We had to keep the things interesting there. Peace march? We\u2019d be the only ones in<\/i> it.<\/p>\n

Scattered in crowd<\/b>: Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> If there\u2019s anything done, we were the only ones behind<\/i> it. I mean, anything good<\/i> done. (Unintelligible) people, so when we left, their life\u2013 their light went out. They\u2019re sad. Poor, sad people. Whole state of Indiana has to talk about us.<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> We broke the restaurant.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yeah, we\u2013 we broke a lot (chuckles). What?<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> We broke the restaurant. We let black people be in the (Unintelligible word).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yep. When I was a commissioner of human rights, I broke three hundred of \u2018em. Integrated three hundred businesses back there. (Clears throat)<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Pause) (Aside) I don\u2019t know. Find out about\u2013 I don\u2019t know\u2013 get uh\u2013 Tim [Stoen] ought to be notified about that. (To crowd) (Clears throat) Any question about guilt? Maybe some of you don\u2019t ever feel<\/i> guilt. If you don\u2019t, boy, look at yourself. There\u2019s other people who never feel any guilt. Linda Swaney says I never feel any<\/i> guilt. Watch those kinda people.<\/p>\n

Unidentified woman:<\/b> We\u2019re the ones who are feelin\u2019 (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, that\u2013 that\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s sweet of you and proper. We all ought to bet\u2013 me included, \u2018cause I gotta lead<\/i> you. And I\u2019ve gotta make sure that every move I make is the best move (clears throat). And I\u2019m surrounded by fascist killers. And protectin\u2019 you is harder than an old mother hen tryin\u2019 to keep her chickens out on the eighteen degree below zero weather. You\u2019re damned if you do and damned if you don\u2019t. I remind myself of that father\u2013 that father\u2013 you\u2013 you\u2013 if you\u2019re too forgiving, remember that old father in the proverb, he\u2013 his son went out in (sighs) in the pig sty, and he had to get damn low, too, before he realized he needed his father.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013and when he got back, the father\u2013 the son that had stayed<\/i> got mad, because the one that\u2019d been in the pig sty recognized what he\u2019d lost. \u2018Course there\u2019s some aspects of the story were stupid<\/i>, you don\u2019t pay somebody for disloyalty, but at least<\/i> the person who\u2019s made a mistake ought to be able to get back<\/i>, yet I got a feelin\u2019<\/i> that if some folk did<\/i> come back in this place, others\u2019d get mad and go out, it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s a hell of a job<\/i> bein\u2019 in this role (The parable of the Prodigal Son, Luke 15:11-32).<\/span> It\u2019s really bad<\/i>. Uh, you do know the story of the Prodigal son, I\u2019m talkin\u2019 about (Voice rises) the prodigal son<\/i>!<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I will get your attention if I spoke a little bit louder. So, Geraldine said we all ought to feel guilt<\/i>\u2013<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u00ad\u2013and if you don\u2019t feel guilt, you need to feel guilty<\/i> about the fact that you don\u2019t feel guilt.<\/i><\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Voice drops) Thank you. If anyone has a problem of not<\/i> feeling guilt, I don\u2019t want you to be publicly embarrassed, and many\u2013 It\u2019s too late for you to probe, I know, but I wish<\/i> you would make a counseling appointment so you can talk, you\u2019re a hard working woman. You\u2019ve done a remarkable job in this church for so many people, in so many ways.<\/p>\n

Woman in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013so I wish that you, Jack, would set up an appointment schedule so you could<\/i> talk. We gotta get to the blood pressure, too, Edith. That\u2019s what we need<\/i> to be, brothers\u2019 and sisters\u2019 keepers (Genesis 4:9).<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I\u2019d uh, dealt with that once<\/i> with you, but now I hear, if it\u2019s ridin\u2019 high again<\/i>, you see, we\u2019ve got to, uh\u2013 and why should we have to wait on me to know it? We should tell<\/i> it. But it\u2019s good of you <\/i>not to tell it. That\u2013 that\u2019s a good characteristic, you never come up and say, \u201cPray for me, Father.\u201d Some folk, if they had a blood pressure two points above a hundred and twenty, they\u2019d say (assumes a worried voice) \u201cFather, I got high blood pressure.\u201d<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> Uh-huh [Yes].<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Here she\u2019s got a hundred and eighty, two hundred, and didn\u2019t say anything about it to me (clears throat). But the nurse (unintelligible word) starting with Sharon, you could, uh, talk with this here diet<\/i>, she\u2019s got to get, uh, free of the things that we know<\/i> are conducive, uh\u2013 salt-free and so forth and so on.<\/p>\n

Woman\/Minnie: <\/b>I am under a doctor\u2019s care\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You\u2019re under thorough doctor\u2019s care?<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/b> (inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, He ain\u2019t thorough en\u2013 who is he?<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/b> (inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Anapkis [phonetic]?<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/b> (inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> A hundred and eighty? Well, we better just see somebody else, too, \u2018cause after all, Apkis isn\u2019t God, either.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Uh, (Clears throat) I need, uh\u2013 co\u2013 the co\u2013 the covers around me and uh, you know, the holy\u2013 the holy veil?<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Well, it won\u2019t do no good to put it around me unless I got somethin\u2019 to put the holy\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013water in\u2013<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> We got it.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> It\u2019s truly wonderful. You may\u2013 (Pause) This uh\u2013 What were we discussing when the\u2013 Sharon, would you start with it and then\u2013 us get into some counsel, because everybody needs\u2013 everybody\u2013<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013and we need one another, and we need to talk<\/i> to one another when we got problems. Some of you never<\/i> in counsel, and some folk are in counsel every night<\/i>, so why don\u2019t you\u2013 They\u2019d like to see some new faces.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Unidentified male: <\/b>(off microphone, speaking about nurses)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Aside) Yeah\u2013 (To crowd) See\u2013 You might\u2013 You\u2019d be doin\u2019 \u2018em a good<\/i> favor. They could see some new people. And I got one woman \u2013 she\u2019s not here, and I won\u2019t name her \u2013 I got one woman\u2013 one woman who has to have a\u2013 Every time she sees me, she has to have a counsel. She\u2019s nice woman, but I\u2019m gettin\u2019 so tired of hearin\u2019 her problems\u2013 (sighs) I won\u2019t tell you what I thought then was\u2013 it might shake your sanctimoniousness (clears throat).<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Does it have anything to do with container?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yes, it has something to do with my container, yes\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You, you\u2019re develoking [developing] your prophetic skills?<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> No, just my seductive mind.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Seductive<\/i> mind? Watch it. You\u2013 you missed a word there. Subversive mind\u2013<\/p>\n

Beam: <\/b>Subversive mind\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yes, yes\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Laughs) He\u2013 he\u2013 I\u2019m, I\u2019m sure<\/i> we\u2019ll be haunted<\/i> by that word. Dirty people with dirty minds.<\/p>\n

Beam: <\/b>I don\u2019t know. I saw a lot of people laugh at the poem.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Shh.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter and hubbub about poem)<\/p>\n

Beam: <\/b>I want to give this to Mother [Marceline] LeTourneau.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Laughs) Mother, that\u2019s sweet. Now she\u2019s smilin\u2019 sweet there. Now quit! You get off Mother\u2019s back. (Pause) \u2018Cause Mother\u2019ll preach<\/i> at you next time, she\u2019ll preach son<\/i>-ship right at you.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Laughs) Some of us come a mighty<\/i> long way, haven\u2019t we?<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>He\u2019s been\u2013 Mother and I and he and some of us have been together over twenty years.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Responds)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Thank you. That\u2013 If you have faith in that water, that\u2019ll heal you, too.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Just look at it, it\u2019ll do it. The electrolytes. All those electrolytes in that? My God, take a look at it.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yes, Mother. Now we\u2019re gonna hear something, I\u2019m sure.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Laughs)<\/p>\n

LeTourneau:<\/b> Before I know it, you have made me what I am.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s sweet. She said, I have taught<\/i> her all<\/i> she knows and I have made her what she is.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (applause and reactions) That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Wonderful. True spirit. True spirit. Thank you. They got the message. Very well spoken. Good apostolic behavior. Proper comportment. Five more minutes. (pause) Did you get the feeling of what I was trying to impart about guilt?<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> You sure you don\u2019t have any question? We don\u2019t get to talk<\/i> very often. There\u2019s so many, many people. Some of you don\u2019t feel free to talk when there\u2019s so many, many people.<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> This looks like a small gathering to us. Three hundred people look like a small<\/i> gathering to us, doesn\u2019t it? Yes.<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yes, Professor Roller? (Pause) Shift again, dears\u2013<\/p>\n

(congregation stirs, chairs scrape the floor)<\/p>\n

Edith:<\/b> It\u2019s a little bit\u2013 uh\u2013 I\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Bless your sacroiliacs. You may be seated.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (unfolds piece of paper) Count on more than that from Los Angeles offering today. Things are financially bad everywhere. No matter who takes the offering, Mother [Marceline Jones], me\u2013 We take the biggest offerings but every\u2013 Our<\/i> offerings are now down, too. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Unidentified male: <\/b>(Unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (aside) Yeah, but it didn\u2019t stay<\/i> that light. It wasn\u2019t always that high. But almost from February to May, it was that high. (unfolds paper) (to crowd) We\u2019re in some financial troubles<\/i>, friends. (stumbles over words) I\u2019m not getting ready to take an offering, go ahead. Hear what you say.<\/p>\n

Edith:<\/b> Uh\u2013 Well, on the question of uh, feeling guilt, I was uh, wondering if it might not be a good idea for all<\/i> of us to analyze ourselves about this, uh, complaint that Father made<\/i>, that we don\u2019t pay attention<\/i> to him when he\u2019s tryin\u2019 to teach<\/i> us in a solemn mood. Uh, it\u2019s not his<\/i> fault, so it must be our<\/i> fault and uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Edith:<\/b> \u2013I\u2019ve\u2013 as a teacher<\/i>, I\u2019d be interested in uh, uh\u2013 well, not myself<\/i> seeing, but in having the group see why people think<\/i> that they themselves don\u2019t listen to him. What is<\/i> it that makes your attention wander when he\u2019s talking in a low voice about very important things<\/i>, why do you go to sleep, uh\u2013 and I\u2019d think you\u2019d learn something about yourselves, uh\u2013 I\u2019d just like to make that suggestion that everybody who finds that they really<\/i> aren\u2019t interested in a teaching<\/i> session, why is<\/i> that? What\u2019s bothering<\/i> you?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s true. Well said. (Pause) Let messages go \u2018round, to secretaries at the doors again. Never say we don\u2019t let you in when our pastor\u2019s not here. Just say it\u2019s a\u2013 it\u2019s a bus\u2013 it\u2019s a congregational discussion, a congregational business meeting. We always<\/i> discuss business, so it\u2019s the truth<\/i>. Congregational business meeting. Someone in Los Angeles told some white people that uh\u2013 let\u2019s see\u2013 Clara Jackson or some other name, had said uh, that uh, \u201cPastor\u2013 we don\u2019t let people in here when our Pastor\u2019s away.\u201d What a stupid statement. Sweet person, but a stupid<\/i> statement to make. You don\u2019t\u2013\u00ad you don\u2019t do that. You get \u2018em (draws out word) all stirred up that way, and I want that to go around. Will you please take that down, that the\u2013 the only<\/i> simple answer, sweet<\/i> answer is, it\u2019s a congregational business meeting. Our pastor is\u2013 may not be<\/i> here, and that\u2019s very conceivable. The last few days I been gettin\u2019 in late, we got out of Los Angeles so sl\u2013 San Francisco meeting at eleven o\u2019clock in the morning and got to Los Angeles at uh\u2013 what hour? What hour was it?<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Got in there at eight o\u2019clock. Hmmm?<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> (Inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> What?<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> We have a meetin\u2019 at (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> All right\u2013 (Clears throat) Yes, my man? Yes, young man? (Pause)<\/p>\n

Young male:<\/b> This one day when I was at uh\u2013 last week at school, and I was thinkin\u2019 about cuttin\u2019 a class, so I did, I\u2013 I started to cut the class and I walked out the door, and then a bea\u2013 a bird messed on my head, and I wanted to know, did you send that bird to mess on my head?<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Sustained laughter)<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Now, wait a minute, folk. Now, wait a minute, this is not really funny. You take a second thought. He asked a question, (Unintelligible) a serious question, if it\u2019s serious, let him ask it\u2013 (unintelligible). It was serious enough of us to listen\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> It was serious enough for you to answer, wasn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I don\u2019t know<\/i> the answer (laughs).<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> Well, I\u2019m\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I don\u2019t, either. That\u2019s why I\u2019m tryin\u2019 to get off the hook.<\/p>\n

Beam: <\/b>I didn\u2019t hear any question.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (conversation, hubbub, laughter)<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> No, he didn\u2019t send it. (Pause) Any more questions? The bird\u2013 the bird saw a good, a good place for a nest, and he settled there.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (conversation, hubbub, laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Yes, the humor in this necessary\u2013 he said that all people must feel freedom to speak where they\u2019re at<\/i>. It may not uh, be where you\u2019re<\/i> at and obviously<\/i>, it may not be where God\u2019s<\/i> at.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> But everyone needs to speak exactly where they\u2019re at. Otherwise, you can\u2019t bring people from where they\u2019re at to where they might<\/i> be.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (affirmations) (Pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> And that\u2019s a mild reaction.<\/p>\n

Unidentified<\/b> Woman: <\/b>Uh, I don\u2019t know if I\u2019m changin\u2019 the subject here but uh, but I was lookin\u2019 at this newspaper here, and it says a neat tax loophole for congressmen and I was wonderin\u2019, (laughs) if these people felt any guilt and, uh, they have the nerve to uh, ask for more money, uh, and this is for living now in Washington, while they\u2019re living at Washington, people are supposed to uh, pay their expenses, when\u2013 when they have\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (interrupts) No capitalists, you see. No one, hon\u2013 No, no capitalist, honey, uh, we, uh, go through these questions very frequently, and I\u2019m certainly<\/i> thrilled that you people are reading newspapers. It\u2019s beautiful. But no capitalist, no one who takes an elected office in this society<\/i>, Democrat or Republican, has any conscience<\/i>. I listened to the Peace and Freedom candidate today, and the American Independent Party candidate and the Republican and the Democratic candidates coming back from here. I spend my time listening on\u2013 on the radio. I need a radio bad that\u2019ll work, but I listened the best I could between the static and the breaking off of the uh, current<\/i>. Now, you can decide<\/i> one thing: that anybody who has gone into politics in the capitalist system, where both<\/i> parties are capitalistic, both<\/i> Democrats and Republicans support the system that it\u2019s right to make a profit, no matter who it hurts. The right<\/i> to love money, which is the root of all evil (1 Timothy 6:10, “For the love of money is the root of all evil.\u201d).<\/span> The right<\/i> to do in anybody they want<\/i> to. That\u2019s uh\u2013 that\u2019s simplifying it and making it a little more gross<\/i> than they\u2019d like to have it interpreted. But when any of these politicians get into this system and support it, they don\u2019t have any conscience. Their conscience is seared with the hot iron, to use the\u2013 the phrases that we\u2019d be\u2013 be accustomed<\/i> to. So in, no\u2013 no\u2013 they\u2013 they have no conscience about that. And the people<\/i>\u2013 what\u2019s the pitiful<\/i> part of it is, not only do the leaders lie, but the people would have it so, because anybody can read just like you\u2019re<\/i> reading and see that they\u2019re gettin\u2019 no more tax loopholes. Mister [Nelson] Rockefeller made fifty-two million dollars<\/i> that he didn\u2019t pay taxes on, and some of it included donations to his own friends<\/i>, donations to his own relatives,<\/i> and he didn\u2019t pay any taxes on it, until they caught him, and then after five years they uh, caught him, and he pays a million dollars on fifty-two<\/i> million with no penalty<\/i>. And nobody ever<\/i>, ever<\/i>, ever <\/i>got caught evading taxes without paying a penalty<\/i>. And all these Democrats and Republicans still say, \u201cWell, uh, I think we need to look into it further,\u201d says Senator [Robert] Byrd, and uh, he\u2019s a Democrat from West Virginia, the miner country and uh, the Republicans say, \u201cI think we should look into it further,\u201d but at this time, how would you vote, Mr. Senator? \u201cI\u2019d still vote for him as Vice President.\u201d They\u2019re crooks<\/i>!<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> They\u2019re crooks and (stumbles over words) dealing with a bunch of sneak-thief crooks<\/i>. That\u2019s why, if anybody gets me up and asks me any questions about, what did you do with your healing ministry? And uh, were you using the church to lead people into socialism? I\u2019ll say sure<\/i>! Sure. They better not get me on the witness stand. I\u2019ll<\/i> answer their questions. I\u2019ll answer \u2018em very sharply. Everything they accuse me of, even some things that I may\u2019ve not done, I\u2019ll say, yeah<\/i>. I\u2019da done more<\/i>, too. I did the best I could<\/i> in a crooked and perverse generation where people are caught up in superstitions and nonsense and foolishness that I still hear in this assembly every night. Superstitious nonsense<\/i>!<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Scattered response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> I\u2019m not talkin\u2019 to you, darlin\u2019 I\u2019m just, uh\u2013 addressing that question. Sure I\u2019d s\u2013 I\u2019d do anything<\/i> to get people to be socialists. Anything except violence<\/i> to them! (Pause) (Voice rises) Anything<\/i>! So don\u2019t tell me that you haven\u2019t heard. Don\u2019t come up to me and say some time in some court that I<\/i> took your<\/i> money under false pretenses. Honey, I told you every step of the way<\/i> what I was doin\u2019.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Applause and cheers)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Sure I can heal. Raise the dead. I can do it. Got more faith in socialism than these stupid asses have got in God. And I\u2019ve got faith<\/i>. I can set still and let somebody be dyin\u2019, and then say, \u201cGet up and come up and I\u2019m gonna kiss you, you\u2019re gonna be all right.\u201d That\u2019s faith<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> That\u2019s faith in something higher than the normal, as we know the normal<\/i>. That\u2019s faith in a paranormal, socialist dimension. That\u2019s faith in the highest thing that you ever seen, \u2018cause these preachers get scared to death<\/i> when anybody starts to die or get sick. They go all to pieces,<\/i> they see a little blood, bunch of cowards. They don\u2019t beli\u2013 they say (sings) \u201cRound the wall to Jericho, faithfully trod.\u201d Talk about God and make the rain, and God stop the sun\u00a0(Joshua 10:12-14)<\/span>, and yet somebody die\u2013 start dyin\u2019, (Voice drops) they get nervous as hell.<\/p>\n

Scattered voices in congregation:<\/b> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Voice rises) But I\u2013 I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t. I got power. But I\u2019d do anything<\/i>. I\u2019d handle rattlesnakes up here. I\u2019d handle rattlesnakes, if it\u2019d get more people in here, and I\u2019d get them through the rattlesnakes away from their wo\u2013 fears and superstitions, on to God and if I had to, take the rattler out\u2013 <\/i><\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Quiet response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> If I didn\u2019t feel like it, I wouldn\u2019t take the risk of being to lost to you, I might take th\u2013 the poison out<\/i> of the rattler. (Pause) (Moderates tone) Now, what\u2019s so shocking about that<\/i>? It doesn\u2019t shock some of you but it still shocks some of you. (Stumbles over words) It won\u2019t make no difference how much that shock you. I been tellin\u2019 folk about this (draws out word) all the way along. I been tellin\u2019 you I\u2019d do (singsong) anything<\/i>! (Voice rises) Anything\u2013 I said I\u2019d run you through to socialism on my back<\/i> or through my dick<\/i> or wherever I have to bring you, I\u2019ll bring<\/i> you, honey. I said it!<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Applause and cheers)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Peace\u2013 (Voice rises throughout) And I got a right to be in the church, \u2018cause I\u2019m feedin\u2019 the hungry, clothin\u2019 the naked. The only judgment of whether you were a follower of Christ was in Matthew, and you gotta have that over and over and over and over. Reverberate in your mind. You gotta have that memorized, \u2018cause that\u2019s the one thing they\u2019re gonna ask you. (Calls out) Why<\/i> are you Christians? You have no business being in the church. Why, we say, we\u2019re the only Christians there are<\/i>, really. And that would be too much to say, but say, we\u2019re good<\/i> Christians. We\u2019re very<\/i> good Christians. There was only one judgment<\/i> of the Christians given in Matthew 25. It was, did you feed<\/i> the hungry, did you clothe<\/i> the naked, did you take<\/i> in the stranger, did you go<\/i> into the prisons and let the captives free? Say, yes<\/i>, my pastor does that every<\/i> day. He\u2019s a true<\/i> Christian.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Cheers and applause)<\/p>\n

Male:<\/b> He does it.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Quiet) Yeah. (Pause) (Voice rises) If you don\u2019t know anything<\/i> in that Bible, know that one scripture, Matthew 25. I think it\u2019s 25. Twenty-fifth chapter. Read<\/i> it well. There\u2019s only one place that Jesus ever separated the bad folk from the good folk, the sheep<\/i> from the goats, and he did it on one<\/i> basis: What did you do for the poor? What did you do for the hungry? What did you do for the naked? What did you do for those in prison?\u00a0(Matthew 25, esp. Matthew 25: 32-46)<\/span> \u2018Cause they\u2019re going to test<\/i> me sometime, \u2018cause I\u2019m the most radical thing ever run in the church. They didn\u2019t count<\/i> on me getting in the church. They developed religion to keep people away<\/i> from socialism. That was a means to keep people from being<\/i> socialist. And I got in the church and invaded<\/i> it. (Pause) (Quiet) It\u2019s wonderful.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Converational) So don\u2019t ask me no silly questions. Somebody come up to me and ask this, that and the other: What about this miracle? Could you do that, Father? Can you walk [on] water? I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t care nothing about (Unintelligible word) talking to you people. (Pause) And I\u2019m being honest, I like that lad over there, but I\u2013 I don\u2019t know why you ask me about no bird in your hair. (Pause) You shouldn\u2019t care whether a bird landed in your hair or up your ass.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Response)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2018Cause that\u2019s not where it\u2019s at, son. You got a bright<\/i> mind, and I think it\u2019s much<\/i> better that I tell you the truth rather than feel this\u2013 this upset<\/i> that I feel. Because what\u2019s the difference, a bird goes over your head. Hell\u2019s bells, if that\u2019s a little symbolic nonsense, that a bird does this or that, somebody gonna die (Unintelligible), what the hell\u2019s the difference. If you gone die, you know you\u2019re gonna die for a good cause<\/i>, if you\u2019re in this<\/i> place, so there\u2013 there ain\u2019t nothing worry about no whether the bird lands on you or sh\u2013 (Stumbles over words) as long as it don\u2019t shit in your nose, it don\u2019t\u2013 don\u2019t worry about it.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Scattered laughter, then scattered applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> And I guarantee you, I got power to keep it from shittin\u2019 in your nose.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Scattered laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Being that you don\u2019t walk on the top of your head<\/i>. If you start walking on your head, I\u2019ll have to work<\/i> on it, but you see, up until now, I can\u2013 there\u2019s one thing I can guarantee I can do perfectly, I can keep a bird from shittin\u2019 in your nose. (Cries out) Aren\u2019t you glad?<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Laughter and applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> If I run into a bird that can shit a curve, I\u2019m gonna hire<\/i> him, that\u2019s what I\u2019m gonna do.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (laughter)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Cries out) It\u2019s in the Book. (Voice drops) Solomon talked about\u2013 Solomon talked about shit. I have to go through that. Oh, no, no, not tonight. Dung. Paul (Philippians 3:8, \u201cYea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ.\u201d).<\/span> I still gotta go through it, \u2018cause we got religious folk. But some of the best<\/i> folks that were once religious, are now this. I look out over here, and I see people that were once caught<\/i> up in it. Best socialist I got. So, that\u2019s the way we had to come<\/i>. And don\u2019t knock<\/i> it unless you can do a better job. \u2018Cause there\u2019s no socialist meetin\u2019 tonight in America at 11:15 that\u2019s got 300 people in it.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Sustained cheers and applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> It\u2019s wonderful. (Pause) (Sings) Oh, the touch of the socialist hand on mine\/ Yes, it\u2019s the touch of the socialist hand on mine\/ His grace and power in this trying hour\/ by the touch of Father\u2019s hand on mine\/ Oh, it\u2019s the touch of the socialist hand on mine\/ Oh, it\u2019s the touch of the socialist hand on mine\/ Oh, his grace and power in this trying hour\/ by the touch of Father\u2019s hand on mine. (Speaks) Clap your hands and sing it.<\/p>\n

(Fade out, tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013to my attention, after the afternoon service, he brought to my attention a young girl, 16 years old, that had been shot<\/i> by madman over in the B\u2013 in the East Bay. And at the time, she was vomiting blood, she was incoherent, hopeless\u2013 hopeless as she could be. She had a temperature of a hundred and four<\/i> degrees this morning. When I then spoke to Debbie Evans about some things to do, and I meditated on her\u2013 When he saw her this morning, she said, she was so near death. When he went back to express my<\/i> love that I had sent, she was up in bed, eating solid<\/i> food, she had not eaten in six<\/i> days, her temperature was normal<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Cheers)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Sings) The touch of the socialist hand on mine\/ Oh, it\u2019s the touch of the socialist hand on mine\/ Oh, his grace and power in this trying hour\/ by the touch of the socialist hand on mine. (Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> \u2013 Shot through the head, (Unintelligible), uh, that\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s power. Obviously, we glad for that kind of power, but that\u2019s<\/i> not the power that holds us together. When you get her name, you\u2019ll be hearing it. She\u2019s near death, perhaps, unless the secretary\u2019s changed<\/i> this. So you send her your cards of love and cheer, uh, because she\u2019s up in the bed now, and\u2013 and they\u2019ll be called around about her. Think of that. Laying in that kind of a state for six days, this morning with a temperature of a hundred and four and at the point of death, and just after my meditation, sent him back, she\u2019s up<\/i>. (Pause) S\u2013 Eating solid food in bed, the first<\/i> solid food she\u2019d eaten. Beautiful<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Cheers and applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> (Voice rises) Just think on it. Just think on it, it\u2019ll make you feel well<\/i>, and it\u2019ll keep you feeling well<\/i>, so you can live long enough to have a revolution<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Sustained cheers and applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> We are greatly in need, Wednesday when we gather here, of canned fruits and canned meats for the Promised Land. Greatly<\/i> in need. Boat\u2019s coming on us now, in a couple three weeks, it\u2019ll be sailing. We have our navigator hired and trained, and our people trained to\u2013 to man the ship, so it\u2019ll be coming back, and we\u2019ve got to get the\u2013 those canned items in. Anyone that can<\/i> help us, we have a family need<\/i> tonight. You lay it here on this lovely little gift altar, and we\u2019ll appreciate it\u2013 I\u2019ll remember each of you kindly that does this. [Is] There any last announcement before we go? Just think<\/i> on this. If you think on this, you\u2019ll get the energy you need. I don’t think I\u2019ll call out anyone tonight. Just\u2013 just uh\u2013 I don\u2019t need to do it. You can do it.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (applause)<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> (off mike, inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Hmm? Yes, yes. Call around.<\/p>\n

Unidentified male in congregation:<\/b> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Shh! Don\u2019t move. Don\u2019t break your ranks yet. Don\u2019t break your ranks. Get back where you were. Thank you.<\/p>\n

Unidentified male in congregation:<\/b> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Thank you so much. Thank all of you.<\/p>\n

Unidentified male in congregation:<\/b> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Yes, be\u2013 be faithful. Be here Wednesday. Be faithful. See, it\u2019s not easy for you to be there, and I know it. But think how tough<\/i> it is, standing up here, when you don\u2019t want to be up here. That\u2019s really tough. So we\u2013 That\u2019s the only way we can keep the thing going. (Pause) And I mean numbers, togetherness is absolutely imperative<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Ijames:<\/b> Yes, they are.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/b> Don\u2019t fail. Don\u2019t fail.<\/p>\n

Unidentified woman in congregation:<\/b> Father, I told something (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Shh!<\/p>\n

Unidentified woman in congregation:<\/b> I have some uh, canned fruit\u2013 (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, speak\u2013 someone get over to her (unintelligible word) canned food. It\u2013 It\u2019ll inevitably\u2013 will someone get the canned\u2013 uh, not\u2013 uh, not him. Uh, Don, would you take care of\u2013 get this canned food, because she\u2013 they didn\u2019t get it picked up, and publicly I can\u2019t resolve it, and she needs to have the canned food picked up. She\u2019s a good, generous person. (Pause) (Hums)<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Stirs)<\/p>\n

Woman in congregation<\/b>: (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>No, we just got some people that are not dedicated. All right, Wednesday, you see, we were in San Francisco. Well, the buses don\u2019t go<\/i> when we\u2019re in San Francisco, do they?<\/p>\n

Voices in congregation<\/b>: (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Well, I don\u2019t know why anybody would do that, uh\u2013 If you can find the time, something needs to be done, if you\u2019ll give the message\u2013<\/p>\n

Voices in congregation<\/b>: (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Um\u2013 Lisa, one of the secretaries from (Stumbles over words)\u2013 uh, Janet, would you come up, I can uh, speak something else to you privately? Plastric\u2013 clasp your hands, please. Visit your neighbor. Your neighbor may not look always as desirable to you as you would want to fantasize<\/i>, but if you think about who your neighbor is next door to you out in the highways and hedges of this med\u2013 this\u2013 this madman\u2019s race<\/i> out here, this hell-hole<\/i> out here, everybody around here\u2019ll look better<\/i> to you (Luke 14, Parable of the Great Dinner, esp. Luke 14:23, \u201cAnd the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.\u201d).<\/span> They\u2019ll look a lot better to you.<\/p>\n

Ijames:<\/b> (Hums)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Get to know\u2013 get to know your leader, get to know your God. By so doing, you\u2019ll be like<\/i> him, and maybe reproduce something greater in your own likeness (reference to Genesis 1:26, “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness\u2026”).<\/span> But you first<\/i> got to follow before you can lead. Absolutely follow him. Obedient, cooperative following. There\u2019s an old chorus that uh, we sang one there, we\u2019d never sung, there\u2019s another of those floating through my mind. I shall know him. I shall know him.<\/p>\n

Ijames:<\/b> (Sings softly)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Let me see, how we change that. I shall know him\u2013 (Pause) I must know him, you should say, I must know him. Know him. I must know him.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/b> (Sings softly)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>I don\u2019t know how to change it. I don\u2019t like it. (tape edit) (Sings) \u2013ow him\/ I must know him\/ For redeemed by his side I must stand\/ I must know him\/ And I must know him\/ I must know the socialism in this man\/ Oh, I must know him\/ I must know him\/ I must know\u2013<\/p>\n

Ijames:<\/b> (Sings) Redeemed I am\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(sings) I must know him\/ I must know him\/ I must know the socialism in this man\/ (Calls out) Sing it! (Sings) I must know\u2013<\/p>\n

(voice fades, tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>(Speaks) Peace. Think on what you heard.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Hubbub)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Please, think on what I said before I quit. I\u2019ve got a family need that needs to be laid right here on the altar. Need of one of our families. Food? Food, food for some of our people.<\/p>\n

Unidentified male:<\/b> (unintelligible, sounds like \u201cOne, two\u201d)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/b>Shh! If you want\u2013 lay something here. I\u2019m talking about family<\/i> need. One of your faithful members.<\/p>\n

Beam:<\/b> We would like the Monday night team to meet at the back of the pool. The Monday night team that stayed here, meet with Joe Wilson at the back of the pool, please. Right away.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/b>: (Hubbub)<\/p>\n

End of tape. <\/b><\/p>\n

Tape originally posted March 2010<\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

(Editor’s note: Transcript prepared by Freya Kory. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.) To return to the Tape Index, click here.\u00a0 To return to the Annotated Sermons page,\u00a0click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. To read Tape Transcript,\u00a0click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1,\u00a0Pt. 2, Pt. 3). Edith Roller: (Tape starts mid-sentence) […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":29177,"menu_order":50,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-63243","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/63243","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=63243"}],"version-history":[{"count":16,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/63243\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":128794,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/63243\/revisions\/128794"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/29177"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=63243"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}