{"id":66014,"date":"2016-02-11T22:22:56","date_gmt":"2016-02-11T22:22:56","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=66014"},"modified":"2016-02-14T00:21:07","modified_gmt":"2016-02-14T00:21:07","slug":"q943-transcript","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=66014","title":{"rendered":"Q943 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

This tape was transcribed by Isaac Zukin and Ethan Snyder. The<\/strong><\/em> editors gratefully acknowledge their invaluable assistance. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/em><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here.<\/a>
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. To listen to MP3, click here<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> So what he [former Temple member John Head] did do, he killed himself. But it\u2019s just puzzles me that a District Attorney [John Van De Camp ] would uh, dignify this stuff. They\u2019re also trying to accuse<\/em> him in the press. The Los Angeles coroner [Thomas Noguchi], who I\u2019ve never met nor do I know, nor do I suppose anyone in this church knows him, accusing him of uh, being in conspiracy<\/em> with us to conceal the true reason of this man\u2019s death. Well, I uh\u2013 I tell you that is uh, frightening. Even though we will be vindicated, if there\u2019s any semblance of reason left in this society because we had nothing whatsoever to do with his committing suicide<\/em>. And I don\u2019t know how they hope by their\u2013 by the stretch of their imagination to achieve anything<\/em> that would portray us in a bad light, other than they\u2019re trying to perhaps trying to sensationalize and cause more disunity in the sou\u2013 in the south in Los Angeles. Interesting that it\u2019s in our Los Angeles correspondent reports. And when our attorney Charles Garry checked it out, it was [Marshall] Kilduff, the same old character. He wasn\u2019t the Los Angeles correspondent, no, he was just a reporter in San Francisco. And it (unintelligible word)\u2013 In further investigation (unintelligible word) that he is the one demanding investigation of the coroner<\/em>.<\/p>\n

And now they\u2019ve come up with some new letter that this young man was supposed to have written before he died, a suicide note, and they\u2019re accusing the coroner of concealing<\/em> that letter. I wanna to tell you, it\u2019s very eerie, very eerie. If<\/em> there\u2019s a letter, it\u2019s probably been manufactured, because the coroner would\u2019ve had no reason to conceal anything, in that he didn\u2019t know us and we didn\u2019t know him. He isn\u2019t a socialist, and we would\u2019ve never been involved in anything even remotely<\/em> connected with murder. So I don\u2019t know what\u2013 what possible thing they have in mind. I\u2019m too honest to even be able to explore their devious mind. But it seems they are so anxious to uh\u2013 to reflect on us, that they\u2019re willing to pull down a coroner with them. Interesting enough, the coroner is Asiatic. As I recall. Isn\u2019t he, Asiatic?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Agrees<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> So it all figures in the configuration, I guess.<\/p>\n

So that\u2019s the news topic tonight. We\u2019ve had silence in the news until today, and now we are being\u2013 Said this district attorney is opening the case of a young man that once was with Peoples Temple. Whereas the actual fact was the district attorney is being pressured<\/em> by one Marshall Kilduff, and he said \u201cFriends\u2013\u201c The district attorney told one of our contacts. Goodness knows who those friends are. I remember that uh, the head of the Jewish, uh, community relations counsel, said that she<\/em> had information at one time that he had Nazi connections, and then came up with the Nazi name of Klineman [likely George Klineman] who he had found to be one of our principal sources<\/em> of all of this. Klineman, who lives in an\u2013 a big estate in Sonoma County, and surrounded by sp\u2013 uh, spotlights<\/em> and a fence about eight foot high, and all sorts of vicious dogs<\/em>. What he is trying to conceal<\/em> in that mansion, little do we know. But we can very much suspect, but he has absolute Nazi connections, so we\u2019re told. And no one seems interested in that, no one seems interested in printing that whatsoever, except the Sun Reporter<\/em>, and our own paper. No one had been true and loyal through this entire<\/em> ordeal, except Dennis Banks. And he again pledged last evening that he was willing to do anything that we needed. And we told him that we wanted him to get to freedom.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Scattered applause<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> So I told you, I told you\u2013<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Applause<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013that I would let you know the good with the bad. I don\u2019t know particular what this is, I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t suppose we\u2019ve gotten down the road to fascism to such a degree that they can frame<\/em> uh, us in the reference to a dead man who commits suicide<\/em>, but if it\u2019s a fascist state, then anything can be done, and usually is<\/em> done. Did you discuss\u2013 Did someone discuss the Rosenberg case [Ethel and Julius Rosenberg] before I got here?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Responds.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All right. That\u2019s a good example. Why someone that couldn\u2019t even draw as well as a sixth grader, some replica of a atomic bomb<\/em>, from five years of memory and supposedly even in spite of A.E.\u2013 Atomic Energy Commission reports that no<\/em> secrets had b\u2013 enabled the Soviets to build their bomb. Nothing that the United States had revealed or any secrets that came out of the United States in any way, shape or form had uh, contributed to the building of the bomb. Nonetheless they put the Rosenbergs in jail based on a sketch out of a man\u2019s mind that was never shown\u2013 allowed to be revealed to the public. Only given camera v\u2013 camera view, which meant that the attorney subsequently could not even appeal the case. (pause) For the sake of Americans, North Americans, I hope we\u2019re not headed for that kind of era, because it got so<\/em> dangerous that\u2019s when the Rosenbergs went to their death, and clasped their precious babies, eleven- and twelve-year-old children, I think they were younger then that [Robert and Michael Meeropol, six and 10, respectively]. I\u2019m a little vague on that, but they were very young, reaching through that net of fence, not to clasp, and they couldn\u2019t clasp, and they put their hands up\u2013 I shall never forget the clutch\u2013 the\u2013 the clutch of love, the desire to touch, and could not reach through to touch their children. Neither could they reach through to touch each other, as they parted and were taken down that lonely road to the gas\u2013 to the electric chair.<\/p>\n

Persecuted, prosecuted and murdered, without a scintilla, not a shred of evidence. No attorney would represent them, no left group would associate with them, even the Communist Party USA disassociated itself from them, and they stood alone, with the exception of one incompetent<\/em> Emanuel Block. A civil<\/em> attorney who had never been in\u2013 before, as I remember, involved in criminal litigation<\/em>. And he stood up before the court and the jury, which would co\u2013 obviously<\/em> prejudice anyone, against the defendant. He said \u201cI\u2019m a patriotic American first<\/em>, and the defense attorney for these two secondly.\u201d Which would imply somehow that his role<\/em> as a patriotic American was being somehow jeopardized by defending these two. One of the most damaging things he did in that dark era of the McCarthy period, was to uh, not use normal appeal processes<\/em>, or to render objections that were absolutely damaging<\/em> to the Rosenbergs. The judge even \u2013 [Irving] Kaufman \u2013 who was a bigot himself uh, introduced his (unintelligible word), he said, \u201cThis is an unusual stance for a defense attorney.\u201d He said, \u201cNot in view of my situation and the circumstances,\u201d which was again the statement from their own defense attorney\u2019s mouth, enough to hang them.<\/p>\n

That was the McCarthy era. Some of you forget it and some of you are so blas\u00e9, you don\u2019t think it\u2019ll ever happen again. Some of you think you can go on back to life and its routine, and somehow you could uh, eat your McDonald hamburgers and go swimming, golfing, or whatever, and not be affected<\/em> by that! And I find that most peculiar to me, how anyone could dream that a\u2013 a society that\u2019s already proven<\/em> that we are on the very\u2013 at best<\/em> the edge of a McCarthy era, at the worst the middle of one, when we are now faced with a young man who left<\/em> our church, ridiculed and blasphemed this cause and my own principle, and then his own conscience destroyed<\/em> him and caused him to leap<\/em> off of a building, and how you can possibly connect that suicide<\/em> to murder<\/em> is a shocking, shocking consideration. And that\u2019s what they\u2019re trying to do. They\u2019re trying very<\/em> hard to suggest that we as a church<\/em> were involved in the murder of this young man, when he was a suicide. And as I say now, they accuse a coroner who didn\u2019t know him from Adam\u2019s (unintelligible word), and who I<\/em> never knew, and no one in our church knew, unless you knew him on your own. Trying to accuse him of concealing a letter<\/em>. Very interesting that a letter would emerge now, what is it, two years that he\u2019s been passed? Very<\/em> interesting that a letter all of the sudden emerges, and this Asiatic coroner is supposed to have suppressed this evidence. Now you know that\u2019s bullshit.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> No coroner would take the risk of suppressing any kind of evidence. If we were his friends, if he was a socialist, if he were paid<\/em>, that kind of loyalty I\u2019ve never seen, except for me. And being that he wasn\u2019t<\/em> a socialist and we didn\u2019t know<\/em> him, and he would have no possible<\/em> reason to try to conceal anything that would reflect on Peoples Temple, then there must be some sophisticated<\/em> thing that they\u2019ve manufactured. It\u2019d be interesting to see what\u2019s in that letter. That letter that wasn\u2019t found two years ago, but now all of the sudden comes up, conveniently<\/em>. Again, it\u2019s gonna be interesting to see how they uh, put that body and any member of Peoples Temple together. Looks like we should have some day in court, although they\u2019re maybe counting on us being so maligned that we won\u2019t be<\/em> back there to defend ourselves, and trying to frighten off our supporters by making us murderers. And I\u2019ll bet\u2013 I\u2019ll bet that some of you have relatives that will believe it.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Calls out.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I\u2019ll bet that many<\/em> of you have relatives that will believe it.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Calls out.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I saw some black bitch\u2013 if you\u2019ll excuse the uh\u2013 in the letters I has going over, and I go over the letters coming in and going out, some black bitch writing someone, Sister Belle, from New York. Black bitch. And she said, uh, I read the negative things about your church in New York Times<\/em>. And I thought, when does a black person ever believe anything that a white goddamn newspaper has to say? We\u2019ve forgotten who we are<\/em>, we\u2019ve forgotten where we come from, and uh, The<\/em> New York Times<\/em> article was one of the great masquerades of all time, because the man that wrote the article, wrote a very decent article, and the owners took his article and twisted it and put in things they wanted, and he even, with some conscience, tried to show what he really had done by releasing his original artic\u2013 article to The New York Times Service which appeared in such papers as The Press Democrat<\/em>, and it was really a very laudatory article. Praising me for being a Marxist, bringing up Mother\u2019s [Marceline Jones] quotations about me, and it was a very decent article. But by the time it left the reporter\u2019s hands and got to The New York Times<\/em> owners, which is supposed to be one of those fair, liberal newspapers, like some of you are still in this church, are liberal socialists, uh, you are liberal socialists who are Saturday night revolutionaries, who wanna play around and do your thing, all<\/em> the rest of the days, and can talk about a future, goddamnit, when we\u2019re living in the midst of fascism.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Calls out, applause<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I\u2019m not talking about a revolutionary future, I\u2019m talking about a self-indulged<\/em> future. Talking about doing your thing<\/em>. Whole lotta folk do that. Jann Gurvich was telling me about her uh\u2013 her dad [Lou Gurvich] who is Jewish, Russian Jew, but hates<\/em> Jews, telling her how bad<\/em> Jews were, used to read to her how lowly, only people that were pure were the white Christian, the white Anglo-Saxons, and he would read from books to her telling her about the supremacy<\/em> of the white race. And I heard that sell-out Jew on the phone patch the other night, and I thought, well, if a Jew could do this, Jesus Christ knows what those Jesus Christ followers would do, those white good Christians would do. He made racial statements even there, and was re\u2013 referred to this work of the\u2013 of this black country in a demeaning way, and so cold and so calculating, and so capitalistic, and they always accuse us communists of using \u201cthe end justifies the means\u201d rationale. He was so low<\/em> down, that he told her that uh, her mother<\/em> was dying of cancer<\/em>. When it didn\u2019t work, because I said the men\u2013 the medical often dis\u2013 oughta\u2013 that it be authenticized that it be medically verified<\/em>. Well, huh, you uh, asked me to verify anything. And she said to her daddy\u2013 I said, well, I assure<\/em> you he\u2019s doubting your word. He\u2019s questioning her all along the road, he\u2013 she certainly had a right to question him. Well, her mother wasn\u2019t dying of cancer, because today there\u2019s a telegram from Mama. The third treatment didn\u2019t work and the threat<\/em> treatment didn\u2019t work, and the breath treatment\u2013 These fuckin\u2019 no good, sons of bitchin\u2019 capitalists, they\u2019re always talkin\u2019 about what communists will do, and then the lowest (unintelligible word) pricks ever walk, because they\u2019ll do it just to manipulate their own family to do what they want, for no moral reasons, for no purpose, no good, no decency, they just lie<\/em>. That\u2019s a terrible thing to tell a child, that their mother is dying of cancer<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Calls out.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Maria Katsaris had the same thing, good pr\u2013 preacher, minister, father said that her\u2013 he was dying of cancer, please come home. But when she wouldn\u2019t come home<\/em>, and I said I knew that he wasn\u2019t<\/em> dying of cancer, just as I knew Mrs. Gurvich wasn\u2019t in the state that he suggested, when she said, \u201cNo,<\/em>\u201d he came all the way to Georgetown, try to raise hell. That\u2019s a lively cancer patient.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Calls out.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It\u2019s a wicked, wicked world. I don\u2019t know what any of you would want to think of going back into western society, or western creature comforts, and attempt to enjoy the benefits of a bourgeois society that seems very rather uh, sickening to me, appallingly sickening<\/em> to me. That some in this day and age could think<\/em> about enjoying the benefits of capitalism, when it means that all around you, blacks and Jews, minorities, and a Japanese or an Asiatic coroner can be hung right along with us, and he\u2019s apolitical, I think he\u2019s a Republican, but anything to get us, don\u2019t make any difference who they have to walk over, say I \u2013 I \u2013 I\u2019m a clean, I\u2019m \u2013 I\u2019m \u2013 I\u2019m clean, I been no communist, my relatives are clean, yeah, but if they\u2019re black, they just like (unintelligible word), and Asiatic, they\u2019ll use<\/em> them, destroy<\/em> them! Don\u2019t make any difference who they have to destroy, as long as they\u2019re trying to get at Peoples Temple.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Calls out.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> A coroner who (unintelligible word) it a good success, and thought he\u2019d probably had it made, but his name\u2019s bein\u2019 made mud<\/em> right this very moment in the press. We don\u2019t mind , \u2018cause we expected to be made mud. We\u2019d be mighty discouraged<\/em> with these sons of bitches were sayin\u2019 good<\/em> things about us.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Cheers and applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I told (unintelligible) it\u2019s one of a good story, good story. I said, \u201cNo, no it\u2019s not really a compliment,\u201d you better get yourself (unintelligible word) because you\u2019re gonna get such bad press. You will never see the light, when they turn loose on us. I warn you. I warn you, I told you it was comin\u2019 long<\/em> before it came.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Cheers and applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> So how many times I\u2019ve prophesied, and people forget it. Interesting these people try to make us out now, thieves. And I take peoples property, and yet here we have three, four million dollars worth of property, sitting here before we ever got here. Now anyone with their right mind, if the American people were thinking, they wouldn\u2019t buy that bullshit, but they\u2019re not thinking. How can a man be a thief when he put three or four million dollars into a beautiful community of buildings and medical traffic, medical uh, facilities and all<\/em> the things that you have here, farm implements, tractors, the\u2013 innumerable host of tools and instruments that you can\u2019t begin to lay the value. (unintelligible) four million, perhaps five<\/em> million dollars US. Now if I was dishonest, why wouldn\u2019t I have taken that five million dollars and gone off to Monte Carlo<\/em>? Why in the fuck would I be down here, listening to 700 people\u2019s problems, watching their aggravation, see how they\u2013 so many of them don\u2019t consider uh, anything I do but it\u2013 want to steal and cheat from one another, and rob and do everything dishonorable, why in the hell would I, in the 700, and then worry about feeding 700, when most dads will run off when they have seven<\/em> to feed, by God.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Cheers<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(Cries out) You know, anybody that was thinking at all, anybody had an ounce of insect intelligence, would know goddamn right, that Jim Jones was a good man, that this is bullshit<\/em>, that you don\u2019t take 700 people clear across the world and locate them in a lovely community, and pay<\/em> every one of their expenses, and feed them every goddamn day, and be a thief. Nobody ever (unintelligible) that way.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Cheers<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(unintelligible) But the American public is so<\/em> apathetic and so<\/em> stupid and so<\/em> brainwashed and so<\/em> programized, that you (unintelligible word) programized. (Calms) Shit, they\u2019re the ones that are programized. They\u2019re programized that there\u2019s such a degree, that they justify any goddamn thing that their government does, and the newspapers do, makes no difference. They\u2019re in a terrible shape. Bullshit, some young\u2013 some man and I was uh, reading some article, uh, I don\u2019t know which magazine it was, about someone that had spoken out against the uh, Bible and uh, Jesus Christ. He lost his uh\u2013 his call before the teachers credentialing body and lost his teacher\u2019s license, a loan was suddenly called due from the bank. It saying someplace in uh, Illinois. And all he said that the Bible was a bunch of superstition. And they went after his ass. And I mean they nailed him, and finally had him charged with some sort of uh, pornographic \u2013 uh, not obscene reference \u2013 obscene reference on uh\u2013 on a media. Just because he called the Bible, uh, some damn foolishness or something like that, I don\u2019t know it, his exact quote, damn foolishness. And the man is simply being broken financially, and everything, because he touched the great totem. They talk about us being programed, we don\u2019t believe in bullshit gods.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Cheers<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>We don\u2019t believe in this. But they are so programized, that you say anything against their fucking Mother Mary, are you the blood of Jesus? You just don\u2019t say<\/em> anything about that. Because that\u2019s sacred. And how could anyone ever believe such foolishness, except they be \u2018programized\u2019. How could anyone ever believe in a loving God, when two out of\u2013 out of three babies are starving to death. Jesus Christ, before the Chinese communist revolution, eleven out of thirteen children, average of a thirteen-children family, only eleven [two] would survive. Out of every one thousand births, the moment the baby was born, malnutrition was so severe, the mother of three hundred and thirty two died. Thirty three percent died at birth<\/em>, and before they get to seven years of age, (calls out) eleven out of thirteen were dead! (Calms) The Seventh Day Adventist missionary\u2019s child rebelled against the shackles of religion, and spoke on it a couple of days ago, telling about how she\u2019d watch her dad would take her to the steeple and knock down <\/em>Chinese from getting into the steeple of the American church<\/em> that was established in Hunan Province. Would knock them down! And she watched\u2013 she watched with her own eyes, one hundred thousand people drown, and she watched with her own eyes, as a seven-year-old children and older people grabbing on the dike and climbing up on the dike, and another thirty to forty thousand starved to death on that dike, and her dad would never move out of the steeple, but stand there and pray<\/em>. Talk about us being programized, he\u2019s<\/em> a programized. I\u2019d like to cut the throat of that goddamn religious bunch.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Cheers and applause<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Peace. And all those who have any vestige of religion, be whatever form it is, I don\u2019t care what kind of form it may be, you have various names and you call it Christ force and mystical force and meditating, contemplative bullshit, all<\/em> that, how in the h\u2013 fuckin\u2019 hell you can believe that there\u2019s anything in\u2013 unique in us that is of any spiritual worth. How<\/em> you could believe this, this damn stupid programization bullshit brainwashing that\u2019s come from the system. The only value we can build for ourselves is through a socialist society and then step it up to communist society, otherwise there\u2019s no difference between us and the beetle out there, or the flies that get batted down, all the other precious animals that run through the jungles and then be preyed upon all the days of their life, you\u2019re no different than a goddamn animal, I\u2019m no different than a goddamn animal, that\u2019s why we should not put ourselves up to such importance as we do. That\u2019s the only problem some of you have, you really, really feel sorry for your fuckin\u2019 self. You feel sorry, you don\u2019t have what you thought you did have. You got so much more, you got 700 people to fight for you. I don\u2019t need 700 people to fight for me, sometime, some place, I don\u2019t care where you were, it\u2013 Even if McCarthyism wasn\u2019t returning to America, even if fascism wasn\u2019t returning to America, someplace<\/em> down in lonely America, you need somebody to fight for you, and if you\u2019d live there, you\u2019da had nobody. Now you have 700 comrades that\u2019ll stand up and fight with you.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Cheers and applause<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(Conversational) Interesting, interesting, interesting, that anyone can deceive themselves into believing that you deserve better, even if you had better. When I get to feeling sorry for myself\u2013 and believe me it would be easy<\/em> for me to feel sorry for myself, how very easy it would be for me to feel sorry for myself. Some of you do<\/em> get to go to rest at night, and you only have a department or a bit of a program. I\u2019ve got the whole goddamn thing resting on me, and cannot sleep because I don\u2019t know what\u2019s goin\u2019 to break loose in some part of the camp. Hear a clap of thunder, wonder if it\u2019s a gun. Because I\u2019m such a vivid realist. Say, ah, you\u2019re too realistic, yeah, well, if I hadn\u2019t been so realistic, some of your asses had rotted in jail. (Clears throat)<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Applause<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Peace. If I had not been so<\/em> apprehensive and willingly paranoid<\/em>, some of you woulda been in lots of trouble. I seem paranoid, when I\u2019m the least<\/em> paranoid of all, because I don\u2019t give a shit who slips up from behind my back at anytime. I don\u2019t give a goddamn. That\u2019s one reason I just don\u2019t like people around me, they want to put petitions around me, I don\u2019t give a shit<\/em> who blows my brains out. Least one<\/em> moment I\u2019d like to have a little air, a little air, to shut doors and windows and shutters, I\u2019ll die of a heart attack with that kind of shit. So I\u2019ll take my risk that someone\u2019ll blow my head open. It doesn\u2019t bother me, \u2018cause one who is a zero doesn\u2019t have<\/em> paranoia. I don\u2019t give a shit<\/em> what people do to me, but I give loads and loads and tons and tons of care about what they do to you. So I am so paranoid that nothing gets by this old hawk. I don\u2019t miss it. You think you pull your bullshit games, and you think I don\u2019t have a right to test you in a fif\u2013 fifty thousand ways. I\u2019ll test you, because I\u2019m concerned about you, I\u2019m concerned about saving everyone here, I\u2019m concerned about the children and I\u2019ll test you, and I\u2019ll watch you. If you\u2019ve made a mistake<\/em>, I\u2019ll watch you. And I don\u2019t apologize for it, and you think I\u2019m not watching you, and I\u2019m watching you (draws out word) every minute, every minute, because I owe<\/em> that to the collective. But watch you, uh, if you\u2019re going to do something to me? No, never, never. Other than the fact that it affects this great family, with all of its faults, I saw us with a battle cry, I saw us when the camp was encircled. I saw you willingly put up your hands, and say, \u201cI will defend Dennis Banks, even though it means more trouble. I will protect this child, even though it may mean our life.\u201d I shan\u2019t forget that many willingly and enthusiastically voted and tearfully mixed their tears with mine, full well not believing that tomorrow would ever come. Some of you, it was play, but to some of us, it was goddamn real.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Applause<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Peace. (Pause) I went about this circle so many times, I thought I cannot look at my people again, and yet I want \u2018em to feel comforted as much as possible. Dragging my body like it was a ton of bricks, every joint feeling like it was made of cement. But I wanted you to know, that your Father was near. (Pause) (Aside) What is it? Yes, yes. (Back to crowd) Wanted you to know, I was going to be with you to the end, and we thought that, and we felt that end so heavy upon us. (Pause) I told you long ago, I promised never to leave you, and never to leave you alone, and so I was keeping that promise as we wandered through daylight hours and night hours, keeping a camp, not knowing when someone was going to break in, and we came so close to dying, if just two officers had come up that driveway, you\u2019d never \u2013 some of you \u2013 ever get to meet us here. That\u2019s how close it was. Because we had been shot at, we had been photographed, we had had shots rain through here in the broad daylight, we\u2019d had too much hell goin\u2019 on, we had no contact with anybody in government, all the good leaders were gone, and sons-of-bitches were coming in and out of here, nailing stuff on our walls [reference to Stoen attorney Jeff Haas], heckling us, interrogating us, and even pulling our children aside and interrogating them. We had had it. And if one person that last night had walked up at that goddamn lane, if they\u2019da come up there, they\u2019da\u2013 they\u2019da stayed a long time. I mean we\u2019da kept<\/em> \u2018em. But fortunately people trusted Father\u2019s mind and spirit and his principle, somehow kept that one almost<\/em> fatal thing from happening, \u2018cause they were determined<\/em> they were going to come by broken tractors, they were going to come in here, gonna see Bishop Jones. And they can be mighty damn glad they didn\u2019t come to see Bishop Jones that day.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Applause<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> The greatest pain of that\u2013 that moment was I\u2019d always given my life to give you peace, I wanted to give you security. I wanted to give you freedom from pressure and oppression. If I looked in your eyes and I cried and wept, I didn\u2019t bring you here for this. I said it, I must\u2019ve said it once, I said it a thousand times, I didn\u2019t bring you here for this. And fortunately, compassion and hope won that day, but when you love people and you love freedom and you love truth and you love a family like this dad loves his children, you never know at what moment you may have to fight for another child. I\u2019m glad to be alive to face these challenges, because I\u2019m a revolutionary, and it\u2013 I have children here who are not revolutionary, that I love very, very much. I love you deeply and dearly, uh, but I know you\u2019ve not gone through all the processes of suffering and pain and the learning experiences that I have that have made me a firm revolutionary. Yesterday when I announced to you, or the day before, whatever, time has no meaning to me anymore, I guess this is October, I wouldn\u2019t know and don\u2019t give a damn, but I\u2019m not lost, my consciousness\u2013 It\u2019s October third, going on October fourth. Anyway, when it was announced that this government \u2013 this small government \u2013 had cooperated with the United Soviet Socialist Republic, Russia, and<\/em> Cuba, both of which have all kinds of military protection, this country has none, and when a few leaders of this county had cooperated with them in the attempted overthrow<\/em> of the Nicaraguan hated<\/em> dictatorship, my heart beat with pride. I thought, well shit, this could mean tomorrow that the CIA would land parachutes<\/em> in here, or we could be attacked across the border, but my heart beat with pride. But when I announced it, I saw it brought solemnness<\/em> to some of you. But to me it was principle, it was an opportunity, because we\u2019ve seen so much of the technocrat managerial class element in this society really not truly trying to come to a socialist solution, we wondered if that could really ever be, that they\u2019d make that kind of a courageous stand. So I don\u2019t care how many bureaucrats we have to deal with at the low level. Matters not to me. You\u2019ve got uh, a few brave leaders like that, that\u2019re willing to risk their goddamn lives.<\/p>\n

And that\u2019s all our lives are worth, not a goddamn, because chickens\u2013 Some of you ought to go out and watch the chickens die everyday, you\u2019d see how important you are. You\u2019d wonder if you were a son of God, you wouldn\u2019t last about thirty chickens, if you\u2019d stop worrying whether you were a son of God. You\u2019d quit praying, and you\u2019d quit meditating, and you\u2019d quit all your bullshit, you wouldn\u2019t have any religious thoughts, just one thirty chickens. Watch<\/em> them as they look at the other chicken being carried away. Watch the panic<\/em> and pandemonium, that Father tries to calm, as he has the children love them, and the\u2013 and Brother [Miller] Bridgewater said in agony, he said, \u201cOh Father, today, that the day might come, that we never had to eat meat,\u201d \u2018cause he\u2019s the one that has to cut their head, and lay it gently down and watch that head take a minute and a half, opening its eye, (breathes heavily) gasping, (Cries out) some of your blind, stupid, delusional, narcissistic assholes that are not zero personality, I ought to require<\/em> (calms) \u2013 and I think I shall \u2013 that everyone takes their tour of watching the chickens. Go with our children out there, some of the children, there\u2019s one children, the Hicks child in there, I don\u2019t know which one of them, I believe it was, yes, this child said it, he almost said it in tears, well, it\u2019s a job that has to be done. Some of you ought to have to do it. You have to sweat like Pop [James] Edwards and Bridgewater, you ought to have to go down there, and you ought to have to pick those chickens because you\u2019re blind, you think you\u2019re better than a chicken, but when you see the agony in those chickens\u2019 faces, and you see the pandemonium in those faces, as they watch a chicken being carried away, (Cries out) you\u2019d know you\u2019re no more value than a goddamn chicken! You know it\u2019s most easier, (calms) no (unintelligible word) simple, rather, to cut your head off. They could cut your head off just as easy as a chicken\u2019s head. And I\u2019ve seen bodies crushed, good people, socialist people, I\u2019ve seen them crushed, laying there and their tongue, I mean\u2013 uh, a human dies no differently than a chicken. Shift, please. A human doesn\u2019t die one bit different than a chicken. No different than a dog.<\/p>\n

You\u2019ve ever seen a human die? Go watch that chicken die. And then you\u2019d know that there\u2019s nothing but Father, communism, and he is communism and there is no uh, differential between the two, there is no separating communism from Father and no separation of Father from communism. We will only ruch\u2013 reach the higher heights through political process, because we\u2019re creatures of the dust, (Voice rises) we\u2019re animals! Some of you still show very clearly you\u2019re animals. We don\u2019t deserve to live anymore than the chicken does! (Pause) (calms) I see chickens that gather down rather than be cool and peck, they get in the corner and allow everything to stamp on it, and die, and by the time they get here, even from our chicken coops, they\u2019re already crushed to death.<\/p>\n

And some of you, if I didn\u2019t tell you, you wouldn\u2019t even do a goddamn thing about it. We who have to inherit the chickens and go over there and kill them or take care of them, yet they don\u2019t even think about it unless you tell them. Pack chickens in there like a concentration camp! Least it looks to me like you could do something for those precious things, before they die, to give them a little uncrowded, but every time we\u2019ve had it up until now, the chickens have arrived crowded and crushed, and some of them crom\u2013 chomp\u2013 chomped to death, chomped to death. (Calls out) Well, now, that\u2019s different. No, it\u2019s no different, the concentration camps are just the same. (Calms) Those that were decent died, because they would not\u2013 they would not show themselves aggressive and harsh, they were gentle and thoughtful, and they would not fight over crumbs, and they\u2019d not knock bodies down that they might live. They just withdrew from the battle and gave their food to somebody else. As many Jews\u2013 a lot such as [Francisco] Franco said the best Jews died. Only the sons-of-bitches lived, and that\u2019s been true with a lot of you. Good people have died, good chickens. Some of you aren\u2019t worth the value of a chicken. You ch\u2013 cheat, you lie, you\u2019d do any goddamn thing in a corner, (voice rises) anytime you\u2019re up against pressure? Anytime that you\u2019re really called on to show your colors? You are a motherfucker<\/em>! A chicken would protect their babies quicker than you, but a little pressure comes your way, and you\u2019re a goddamn miserable sell-out. (Cries out) A chicken\u2019s got more value than you, and yet you think you\u2019ve got a right to live. Well, you no good son of a bitching motherfucker.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Cheers<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(Calms) Peace. Go tell it to the chickens next time they come in tomorrow. While the freezers are being built up to protect you, so that you can live. You go back there and tell the chickens all why you should have a good life and why you should be able to enjoy<\/em> yourself and sport around. Why you should have a kitchen<\/em>, why you should be able to eat<\/em> what you want. (Calls out) Go tell the goddamn chickens tomorrow, I dare you! (Calm but intense) Look at them while they wait to die, and tell them how much better life you deserve, \u2018cause you die like a chicken, a chicken suffers, its squawk of its voice continues after the head is separated from it. It\u2019s one of the most cruel, heartrending, painful experiences. Someone said \u201cFather, why do you put yourself through it?\u201d I said \u201cSo I can realize I\u2019m no better than a goddamn chicken.\u201d You hear them squawk after the head is cut off, all the way, while the blood is draining out, you hear that chicken crying, and they lay their head down, the eyes gasping open and shut and its mouth going open and shut, (calls out) for a minute and a half of agony, that you can eat, and some of you are not worth a chicken leg. You\u2019re not worth a chicken wing. You\u2019ve got so much goddamn selfishness, you ought to die and let somebody eat you.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Applause<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(Calms) Why do I say it? Why do I say it? Because I\u2019m a partaker of it. The last thing, (small laugh) the easiest thing, the first thing. If you were hungry, the first<\/em> thing I would do, would tell them to kill me, and put me in the uh, boil\u2013 boil me up and desalinize, take a little of the salt out, and you wouldn\u2019t know who you were eating. It\u2019s the only difference between human flesh and anything else. That\u2019d be easy. So I\u2019m not asking you<\/em> to kill yourself anymore than I\u2019d be willing to. That\u2019d be a simple thing, and I would<\/em> be the first response. If my children were hungry, and they had a chance to lead themselves \u2013 you, you<\/em> are my children \u2013 I\u2019d say to some trusted people, please<\/em> cook me. That wouldn\u2019t take any<\/em> bravery at all. It\u2019s so quiet in here. You know you\u2019re so far from Father, you say you know Father, you know who Father is, bullshit. You really don\u2019t know who Father is. But when you talk like this, everybody gets quiet.<\/p>\n

Why would\u2013 you auto\u2013 automatically\u2013 automatically, anyone here should be willing to be sacrificed, that others could live, if it was a matter of starvation. That would be elementary. If you were 46, you should be glad to give somebody 35 years a chance to live a little longer, because he might be able to\u2013 or she might be able to do more for the revolution. And certainly<\/em>, when you\u2019re 46, no<\/em> effort to think about a two-year-old. Gladly give your body, gladly whatever, shit. Be tortured, be- uh, the eyes sold, whatever. Do you know how much I love you? You don\u2019t know. They said Jesus died for you. Shit on Jesus. He was a miserable failure. Because I uh\u2013 I would sell my eyes, and I\u2019d sell everything I could sell, so I could keep using my mind for you as long as I could. And I\u2019d sell myself piece<\/em> by piece that you might live. I\u2019d know what I\u2019m talking about because I\u2019ve already sold my body that you could live. I\u2019ve given my body that you could live. I give my body to save you from the viciousness of one Grace Stoen., to save Tim Stoen\u2019s image, and I\u2019d died a thousand deaths and then had to endure her trying to take away my son [John Victor Stoen]. And was willing to go through that hell. I know what I\u2019m talking about. I don\u2019t only preach it, I live it. You say who (unintelligible word) mutation, Jim Jones, there nobody like you. Well, child, I feel just like you do. I came from an insecure home that you didn\u2019t have, many of you. I had a cruel father [James Thurman Jones] who never gave me any love, and a mother [Lynetta Jones] who was not too affectionate, and never knew where the next meal was coming from, but I managed to give of myself to others.<\/p>\n

Please listen to me and don\u2019t be watching other things and bugs and other things at this particularly serious, sensitive time. I\u2019d be very suspicious of you, if you continue to do that. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Yet out of all that agony of insecurity, I\u2019ve managed to make myself controlled. I\u2019ve managed to make myself secure in finding you happy. Someone was griping about some little old con\u2013inconsequential goddamn thing today. And I said you ought to just think of one person, (mocking tone) \u201cWell, I know.\u201d Said, what about a Billy Jones that stood and fought with a rudder, fought with a rudder \u2019til his hand could be cut off, trying to save our boat\u2013<\/p>\n

Balance of Side 1 blank<\/strong><\/p>\n

Side 2 blank<\/strong><\/p>\n

Tape originally posted February 2016<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

This tape was transcribed by Isaac Zukin and Ethan Snyder. The editors gratefully acknowledge their invaluable assistance. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. To listen to MP3, click here. Jones: So what he [former […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":625,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-66014","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/66014","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=66014"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/66014\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":66134,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/66014\/revisions\/66134"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=66014"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}