{"id":66808,"date":"2016-04-30T10:24:01","date_gmt":"2016-04-30T17:24:01","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=66808"},"modified":"2024-05-06T10:26:03","modified_gmt":"2024-05-06T17:26:03","slug":"q944-transcript","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=66808","title":{"rendered":"Q944 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III<\/strong><\/i>. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>, Pt. 2<\/a>).<\/p>\n

Part I:<\/strong><\/p>\n

(Buzz)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You follow what I\u2019m saying? We don\u2019t want you to go out of here because you\u2019re liable to die. Trying to get through the snakes and so forth, and whatever else is out there. There are CIA people undoubtedly. There are people (unintelligible word). I think the attempt on my life was not a CIA plot, Mazor [Joe Mazor<\/a>] and [Elmer and Deanna] Mertle (unintelligible sentence), because they\u2019re afraid what people would\u2013 would do with (unintelligible) You understand what I\u2019m sayin\u2019? I want to\u2013 I want to lift your pain a little bit, but I want you all to think of (unintelligible under buzz). (Pause) All hell would break loose. Some cowards who try to make their way out (unintelligible), if you know that, if you\u2019re cowardly, they will never forgive you. Just like Tim Stoen, and all the people trying to sell out are making mockery of us. They\u2019re repeating in all the radio, they\u2019re repeating it all over town. (unintelligible under buzz, tape break up). He\u2019s kissin\u2019 ass, and he can\u2019t make it. He\u2019s (tape break-up) town, and he\u2019s a wealthy, I mean a\u2013 a (unintelligible word), not a wealthy, educated, highly educated person. They didn\u2019t pay him enough money to make it worthwhile. He still is trying to get money out of us, which he\u2019s not getting. And you\u2013 we took that vote, and that\u2019s where we stand. (Pause) Uh, so I would think if anything did happen, you should stick<\/em> with the later\u2013 uh, the leader<\/em> and uh, know that your best protection is to stay right where you are<\/em>. Because America\u2019s going to hell as fast as it can. And as long<\/em> as I\u2019m on the scene and we\u2019re united, they\u2019re<\/em> not going to want to have a bloodbath up here. And they\u2019re smart enough to know\u2013 \u2018cause one of the people we distrust in the lower<\/em> levels of government, uh, obviously uh, c\u2013 communicated, he said that I\u2013 Well, uh, more or less he indicated whatever happened to me, that\u2019s what would\u2013 the peo\u2013 the\u2013 the people\u2019s future would depend on what happened on\u2013 to me. Whether they would be violent or whether they would be quiet. A number of you would not be quiet, I assume.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You got to let that be known, no matter what<\/em> happens, you got to let that be known, so there would be no incentive to destroy the leader. (Pause) Anybody have a question, \u2018cause I\u2013 I want to uh, be sure that you\u2013 you understand. To kill<\/em> me or to do anything against this movement would create a very bad bloodbath, and they\u2019ve got enough difficulty with people trying to destabilize them over there in the sugar strike. (Pause) And I don\u2019t see\u2013 I don\u2019t see that uh, taking place. There no<\/em> way they can eliminate us without a hell of a lot of noise. We proved<\/em> that. Remember what\u2013 We say this country for socialism. (away from mike) Remember what who said that? Who said that? (Pause) (back to mike) When the leaders were all out signing the Panamanian treaty, and they tried to take over this place, and you ought to be glad\u2013 and listen, believe me, I lived seven days and seven nights without a sl\u2013 bit of sleep, so don\u2019t worry about me dying tonight. (Pause) I want you to go to bed without any worry about me dying tonight. You understand?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> So you can have peace<\/em>. That\u2019s the major thing. That\u2019s the reason I kept you so I could get up on my feet and show you that you\u2019re not in any danger of me dying<\/em> tonight. You follow me?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Now. (Pause) You shouldn\u2019t<\/em> be afraid to die. How many are\u2013 That\u2019s (unintelligible word) nothing, that\u2019s nothing at all. How many are\u2013 uh, are\u2013 Now honestly, you remember the other night, I asked how many wanted to go back to the United States, and a couple of you were told honestly, you never heard me say another word, did you? (Pause) How many still have fear with death, \u2018cause we want to help you. Penny [Kerns]? That\u2019s right. We\u2019ll take the name down, so we can help them. No, no discipline. Who\u2019s back there? I can\u2019t uh\u2013 can\u2019t\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> (Voice too low)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Beverly Livingstone? Yeah, they\u2019re good workers. Uh, who is it?<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>Toi Fonzelle.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Will you take it down? Toi Fonzelle.<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>(Voice too low)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You folk can sit down, I\u2019ve got nothing more to say to you, you haven\u2019t created any unpardonable sin. (Pause) Uh, Richard who?<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>(Voice too low)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible for several sentences)<\/p>\n

Woman: <\/strong>(Voice too low)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Too low) Doctor [Larry Schacht] said the inner cranial bleeding which I had, a li\u2013 a little stroke, is the most painful<\/em> kind of thing that can happen, and he\u2013 he said that so you\u2019d know<\/em>. I don\u2019t care that you do know. But I want you to know that I\u2019m sure not asking you to take things that are\u2013 that uh\u2013 that I<\/em> wouldn\u2019t take. And I\u2019ve always told you for years, if I heal people, I take it in my body. That\u2019s been the process of this paranormal facto\u2013 factor. (Pause) It is immensely painful<\/em>, but I handle it, and so I don\u2019t ask to dish out anything\u2013 I\u2019m sorry that we had to make this quick order of uh\u2013 of people to the uh, Learning Crew. (Pause) And I just want you to know that you\u2019re not in danger because you\u2019ve got to realize, you\u2019ve got your future<\/em> here. In America, you have no<\/em> future. You\u2019ve got all the future in the world. We stood up and resisted this son-of a-bitch when all of these were out and the damn CIA was running the\u2013 and pulled the shots, and I won the battle on the P.A. system and on the frontlines. I mean, on the shortwaves. You were here. How many were here? We won the fuckin\u2019 battle, and if you\u2013 You ought to tell the story, it was a story of glory. I won\u2013 I said, anybod\u2013 thing happens, I got\u2013 and I got more radios. One of the things I worked out, even when the Customs<\/em> was still one little department that still got some agents in it, I demanded, raised hell, and b\u2013 raised\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2013 I raised so much hell, that\u2019s\u2013 you wouldn\u2019t believe it. I willing to lay down my life every time a s\u2013 issue comes up. Billy [Oliver], Bruce [Oliver], (pause) (unintelligible name, sounds like Clifford). Some that you don\u2019t even know came up. [Don] Ponts has surfaced, you didn\u2019t even know about it, \u2018cause I didn\u2019t want Lois [Ponts] unduly worried, \u2019cause\u2013 not that she\u2019s afraid, but then Tuppers came up, and she<\/em> [likely Rita Tupper] didn\u2019t know about it. It\u2019s all batten through<\/em>. It\u2019s over with. (Pause) But each time, I let \u2018em know I\u2019m willing\u2013 I\u2019m prepared to die<\/em>. Do you follow me?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Quiet) Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> The one thing I insisted was to have four extra radios. They wasn\u2019t going to give them to me. They wondered what the fuck I wanted with them. What\u2019d I want with them? I want to be sure at any time, anything comes our way, I can talk to the whole world, so nothing can happen in a corner, you see what I\u2019m saying? We got four radios in good shape. I wasn\u2019t\u2013 They said, you only need one radio at a time. I said, I want four. And so we got<\/em> four radios. You follow what I\u2019m saying? \u2018Cause things can go broke<\/em>. And I want to be able to communicate, though I\u2019ve got tremendous faculties to communicate in a level of mind beyond anything that I\u2019ve ever seen in a mortal and I don\u2019t believe it\u2019ll ever come again. I still don\u2019t believe in trying to use mind when you\u2019ve got a radio. How many see uh, the general picture? The harassment, all these things were going on, and it\u2019d kept on if we hadn\u2019t got one. So you that don\u2019t believe in ever using violence, and you won\u2019t spell out the word, (Pause) if we had not used violence and stopped that man\u2013 we were getting this shit every weekend.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Every goddamn miserable weekend we went through it. The last time they nearly killed Al Simon. Went through his hair, the bullet went right\u2013 isn\u2019t that\u2013 wasn\u2019t it Al? Who is it? Where is he? Where\u2019s Al? Isn\u2019t that correct, it went right sss\u2013 sizzing by\u2013 beside you, wasn\u2019t that you the person, huh?<\/p>\n

(Voice too low)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah, well, uh, they weren\u2019t playing<\/em>. In other words, shot by his head. (Pause) Very well. If we had not answered those people\u2013 and then when they tried to kill another<\/em> one of our sons, what did we have to do? They had nothing to<\/em> do. You can\u2019t be talking about stopping them, temporary measure. There no temporary measure when somebody\u2019s got a knife to your neck. And that\u2019s what literally had. A knife to a person\u2019s neck. (Pause) So I\u2019m s\u2013 I\u2019m telling you, their major aim not to kill me at this moment. Why? Certainly I’ve got some energy. That\u2019s true. But I can be seen anyplace around here, for 200 yards, they coulda popped me off, if somebody wanted to, with a high-range rifle. So they want to worry<\/em> me to death and let you<\/em> kill me. They\u2019re afraid<\/em> to kill me because they know then half<\/em> the movement woulda react in violence.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> If I\u2019d be lucky enough to be killed by \u2013 from their<\/em> standpoint \u2013 by you just draining me. In this, people tonight didn\u2019t know, they just happened to be the triggering mechanism. Then they\u2019d get less<\/em> reaction, they think. You must be prepared for reaction either way, because they\u2019re calculating my death to be by slow<\/em> process. \u2018Cause if they wanted to shoot me, they coulda done it. You see what I\u2019m saying? \u2018Cause I\u2019m not meditating on me, I\u2019m meditating on you. (Pause) I don\u2019t meditate to say uh, any night, don\u2019t shoot me. \u2018Cause frankly I don\u2019t think I don\u2019t have to do much meditating that way. They want to harass us, they want some of you complainers to drain us\u2013 What time is it?<\/p>\n

Voice too low<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Five minutes, now tell me when five minutes is up, and I\u2019ll quit. They want to drain us by people belly-aching. And I want to know how you feel, if you\u2019d like to be back in San Leandro, and have two kids shot to death, and nothing you can do. \u2018Cause they\u2019re supposedly fleeing from the police, but with no weapons. (Under breath) Water. (Pause) Anybody have any uh\u2013 How many uh\u2013 Now do we\u2013 I want these names. How many people are fearful of death, \u2018cause we want to help you. Not<\/em> in any critical way. We got \u2018em all? (Pause) Come on, be hon\u2013 uh, be honest. And I appreciate your honesty, I really do, \u2018cause there\u2019s a lot of people lying<\/em> here. Now come on, just be honest<\/em> with it. Are we taking \u2018em down? \u2018Cause I don\u2019t see\u2013 (unintelligible word) You sure. \u2018Cause I want us to talk<\/em>. I want \u2018em to have counsel. (Sighs) Death is easy. I was in so much pain for some time before I went over, and then when you get close to death, oh Lord. It\u2019s just easier. And I would\u2019ve had no problem \u2018cause I\u2019ve done my best. You only have to worry when you\u2019re trying to commit suicide or you\u2019re trying to escape. I\u2013 I wouldn\u2019t have to worry about reincarnation, my next reincarnation couldn\u2019t help<\/em> but be better than this<\/em>. (Pause) And I don\u2019t have to worry about reincarnation, \u2018cause I\u2019m the one that can control<\/em> that factor. And it wouldn\u2019t worry me. Now what was I trying to say? (Pause) Now, who still miss\u2013 misses America? (Pause) We know (unintelligible name). Is it America? You miss America?<\/p>\n

Voice too low<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Now, you miss your brother. You miss your children. Well, that\u2019s a natural thing. Would you be so kind to write that down, because I will see\u2013 Like I never\u2013 One of my sweet\u2013 the sweetest things ever\u2013 (sighs) One of my young men has a ch\u2013 has a child. He had a child. And he never, never<\/em> told me about it. I had to find it out. (unintelligible as voice fades) He didn\u2019t ask me to do a thing for the child. I wanted to get the child. I\u2019d like to know<\/em> about your opi\u2013 you that are having particular problem with your family. Just be sure though that some of you don\u2019t uh, misjudge them. Some of them know the bastards that when they are, the bastards, and\u2013 and 99 percent of them are.<\/p>\n

Voice too low<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Even so, when the thing gets bad enough and they want out, and you know, because I love you, I\u2019ll help them. You<\/em> know that. See what I\u2019m saying? (Pause) Now, uh, uh, will you put your hands again, those that have uh\u2013 miss America. (Pause) (off mike) They must be allergic to demerol (fades).<\/p>\n

Voice too low<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> How many miss America? (Back to mike) Would you tell me, uh, uh, sister in the\u2013 in the black, uh, I know your name but I\u2019m\u2013 Flora\u2013 Le Flora uh, Townes. Would you tell me what it is you miss, hon?<\/p>\n

Voice too low<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Uh, write it down, please. Well, some of your loved ones are coming. I\u2019m moving as fast as I can, get \u2018em here. (Pause) Who misses their children?<\/p>\n

Voice too low<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, write it down, will you, dears, where your\u2013 where your children are? Will you write that down and have\u2013 have someone help me? Yeah, Lula?<\/p>\n

Voice too low<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Hmm? (Pause) Some of you what, honey? Yeah, yeah. Okay. You\u2019re awfully good worker. So how many miss nothing more than loved ones? Anything else you miss?<\/p>\n

Voices too low<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> So-called loved ones. And how many know that a lot of your loved ones, you\u2019re still looking at them with too positive an eye? You know, that\u2013 that we save\u2013 uh, Mother\u2013 Mother [Irene] Edwards\u2019 sister get on and threaten her. If Mickey Touchette threatens her par\u2013 her parents [Joyce and Charlie Touchette], what makes you think yours wouldn\u2019t do it too?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> If Mary Griffiths\u2019 child [likely Wesley Griffiths] will go in and threaten to kill Mother and a whole bunch of others, and go in o\u2013 and he\u2013 he shows exactly only thing he\u2019s concerned about. He was hoping she was dead and found out she wasn\u2019t. And he\u2013 \u2018cause he went in and padlocked her house, trying to take over her house. Tried to padlock it. That\u2019s all he was interested in. And you gotta know that about relatives, that\u2019s where they\u2019re at. Because they\u2019ve been trained. They\u2019ve been trained. So any fears you do have, write them up. Will you please do that? Okay, stand please. (Pause) We\u2019da been out 10:15, but we have a slight, little problem. And I haven\u2019t got a slight problem now. These suckers have gone and given me a shot for my pain. And I still got pain, but they give me such a shot that I\u2019m out on cloud nine. (Short laugh) No, no, it\u2019s very thoughtful, very thoughtful, what I\u2019m ju\u2013 I just want them to understand that I\u2019m not\u2013 I got my pain and I gotta\u2013 on an empty stomach, I got whatever in the fuck you give me. And I feel like I like to vomit<\/em> about ten feet. (Pause) So you tell your neighbor of three miracles. Uh, believe me, you don\u2019t want it\u2013 you don\u2019t want drugs. They don\u2019t\u2013 They don\u2019t feel good. Whoo!<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Stirs.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> And as soon as you tell your neighbor three miracles, walk out quietly. Use the back way to walk out.<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013plan it well. Right now, we gotta salvage to make money, produce in those fields, please do, and think of every way we can of making money. \u2018Cause if we get hold of major means of making money, we\u2019ve got a good sound future. Good night. I love you.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Part II:<\/strong><\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> (unintelligible word, sounds like \u201cEric\u201d), next to this is the commissary. Right next to this medical facilities, your showers\u2013<\/p>\n

Unintelligible voice<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> (Playful tone) Yeah, chocolate cake and candy and all that stuff. And you\u2019re right next to the beautiful showers, and you sit there and sew and knit and do all the things, look out the window and play with the children. Gee, no wonder, no wonder you like it so well. \u2018Course, I do too. I do too.<\/p>\n

Ever Rejoicing:<\/strong> Enjoying life. You know, some years ago, I had a rest home in uh, the States and uh, I had raised my daughter and put her through college, and I was sympathizing with one of the patients, and she was fixing to get married, and she said to me, Well, I think that\u2019s where they should be, in a rest home. They shouldn\u2019t intrude on our privacy. And I\u2019m s\u2013 And I told her, I said, I\u2019ll never intrude on yours. But little did I think that Pastor Jones was going to give me a home and bring me this far to this beautiful land, and I\u2019m very, very happy.<\/p>\n

Mike Prokes:<\/strong> Bishop Jim Jones just came in the room, and he used to operate a care facility in the United States, and I know that he would like to address himself to\u2013 to that issue that you mentioned, Mom.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I guess you of course told how old Mother is, that (unintelligible word) pressing up towards a hundred years. We\u2019re in the company of three of our fine seniors. Having owned a rest home, and then turned it over to the church, I know a bit about what it means to grow old in advanced technological societies. It\u2019s not just the United States phenomenon. Unfortunately, due to the high standard of living that is presented to image-conscious people, both the son and the\u2013 the wife of a daughter and her husband have to work in order to maintain their own families. As a result, the elderly are often forced<\/em> by circumstances to go into these rest homes. Unfortunately, in day\u2013 these<\/em> days, rest homes are not very rare\u2013 but very<\/em> rarely owned by private interest. They\u2019re in the hands of large<\/em> corporations, multi\u2013 transnational corporations, where there can be no personal touch. And to grow old, even though you may have known affluence, in homes where there\u2019s not one bit of personal touch or individual concern, is frightening. And that\u2019s why you find so much zest. I couldn\u2019t help but enjoy the zest that I met in this room, and you might say these<\/em> are not seniors who have been less privileged, they were seniors who had opportunity in the United States, had professions. Although they\u2019re now elderly, they chose not<\/em> to live in the very fine convalescent homes that Western society provides, advanced technological or capitalist society provides. They chose rather to live in this lovely new terrain of Jonestown.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> It\u2019s beautiful for me to see that the meaning and the\u2013 the purpose that\u2013 that seniors have here. They have so much to contribute to our socialistic work, and I\u2019m sure it has come\u2013 it\u2013 it\u2019s because they have probably for the first time in their senior years, the opportunity<\/em> to contribute. They know that they are cared<\/em> uh, for, that the people care about<\/em> them, and also they have a chance to express<\/em> themselves in so many ways and in so many activities, and particularly in the decision<\/em>-making, and as a result, uh, we are seeing things just develop at a uh, incredible rate here and in a way that is in line with meeting everyone\u2019s needs. And this is something that\u2013 that means a lot\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And uh\u2013 I\u2019m sorry, I didn\u2019t mean to interrupt you. And we can feel the support<\/em> of the country. The government\u2013 it pursues a socialist course. The community institutions<\/em> are socialist. What a difference it is to live in an environment that encourages<\/em> the cooperative lifestyle, rather than discourage it.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> That\u2019s so true, and we certainly see it here. Today, I was taking a tour of the project, and it really touched me to see how involved the seniors are in every phase<\/em> of the work and activities here. I saw seniors growing their own garden, involved with the school program, in the medical clinic, uh, sewing and knitting and just doing whatever they want to do. And I\u2019m sure this is something that uh, gives each senior\u2013 makes them look forward to every day where before<\/em>, in their former environments, they probably didn\u2019t even care about getting up in the morning.<\/p>\n

Woman 3:<\/strong> That\u2019s true. That\u2019s certainly true, Mike. And also, uh, one thing that I can appreciate, and I\u2019m sure that all the rest of the seniors do too, is that in this beautiful<\/em> uh, place where the weather is so perfect, it\u2019s never too hot, it\u2019s never cold, it\u2019s just right, uh, that in the middle of the night, even at four o\u2019clock in the morning, a senior can get up out of bed, go for a walk, all alone, and never have a thought of being mugged. It\u2019s something that we have never been able to do. We just couldn\u2019t uh, take that sort of chance where we came from, but now we are free. We\u2019re free<\/em>. That is the main<\/em> thing. Uh, socialism has given<\/em> us this freedom. And gee, we do<\/em> thank Bishop Jones for all<\/em> he\u2019s done, because certainly without his love and concern, we never would\u2019ve had all this.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> We do have all this, because Bishop Jones dedicated his life to following the teachings of Jesus Christ, and he put into practice the equality that\u2019s found in the Acts of the Apostles. We want to thank our listeners and urge them to write us with their comments and suggestions as to how we can better serve this great country. Any donations that could be sent would be greatly appreciated, because it would help us in helping others. Our address is Post Office Box 893, Georgetown. On behalf of Bishop Jones and all of us here at the Peoples Temple Agricultural Project, may God\u2019s richest blessings be upon you.<\/p>\n

(Pause of several moments)<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Greetings from the Peoples Temple Agricultural Project in Jonestown, near Port Kaituma of the Northwest District. I\u2019m Mike Prokes, and I\u2019m here with Bishop Jim Jones. (tape edit) The thing that people would like to hear about is the uh, controversy<\/em> that seems to have arisen with uh, some wire service reports about a conspiracy against the Peoples Temple. Would you please put it in perspective for our listeners?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I wish I could. I am surprised, I\u2019m shocked, that Peoples Temple, a pacifist church, though indeed a practicing socialist church, would be singled out for conspiracy. We of course have been very much aware<\/em> of it. We felt the pangs of it in certain areas of the press. But now we hear civil rights leaders stepping forward, such reputable nature, who no way connected to Peoples Temple, as the [American] Indian Movement leader, for one, Mr. Banks, Dennis Banks. And of course, Mr. Banks is [in] no way connected with Peoples Temple, nor are many others who have given affidavits of the most hair-raising variety. Mr. Banks was told that if he would cooperate in the destruction<\/em> of Peoples Temple, he could redeem himself. But it was implemented in words that he would be paid handsomely, he would also uh, be assured that he would have no future legal difficulty. He has been granted extradition by the governor of the state of California [Jerry Brown]. He was warned, if he didn\u2019t<\/em> cooperate, there would be some bad ramifications in the courts, and of course, indeed, what he was told took place<\/em>. For the first time, unparalleled in the history of the U.S. court system, a governor\u2019s order not<\/em> granting extradition has been revoked by the court. Some of the things are too shocking to even describe until we have more detail. One of our pilots, a black young man [likely Norman Ijames] who has been unable to get work at all, was suddenly offered a position in the ten\u2013 Well, I want to be very accurate here \u2013 in the five figures, the high five figure\u2013 five figures, if he would work for a company that\u2019s involved in the uh, conspiracy.<\/p>\n

Because we say involved with the conspiracy because one of their principal people that\u2019ve marshaled the forces ag\u2013 against Peoples Temple, and it\u2019s all started when we announced we were going to move and live in a socialist country such as Guyana. Many of the individuals who have been involved in the smear, all<\/em> the sources, are connected, with one individual who is an agent who works for the same firm, and it\u2019s not a matter of my speculation, it\u2019s a matter of public record now, there\u2019s an agent, being orchestrated by another investigator [Joe Mazor] who indeed has a criminal<\/em> history that can be verified by anyone, 75 pages long. It\u2019s frightening, frightening indeed. We\u2019re seeing too much of this happening in the U.S. scene today. Andy Young has been vilified. What\u2013 what shocks<\/em> one is that we would be vilified for nothing more than we stand for socialism.<\/p>\n

I would like to give a lot of details. We can give names, we can give places, times that would cause any skeptic to be a believer, upon inquiry to our church address, I think it\u2019s 893\u2013 Post Office Box 893, Georgetown, Guyana, we will do so. Because I don\u2019t want to involve the radio in actual personalities, the radio station that we\u2019re broadcasting from. They\u2019ve put no restrictions upon us, but I feel a sort of moral<\/em> responsibility. Each thing that I say \u2013 and could<\/em> say at this moment \u2013 uh, can be verified. As I said, the criminal record of the chief orchestrating person. Every one of the sources that\u2019ve been used \u2013 every<\/em> one, bar none \u2013 have been involved in criminal activity or were advocates and<\/em> planners of terrorist action. That one, we are presuming now with great deal of testimony and affidavits, was a provocateur in the ranks of Peoples Temple, until they were expelled becau\u2013 because we are pacifist. And that position\u2019s been historic. Everyone who knew the functions of Peoples Temple here or in any missionary endeavor, we are pacifist. Socialist<\/em>, but committed to the principles of nonviolence. It\u2019s quite a situation, Mike, as I say, to see yourself put in this light, set up actually that violence could be done against the entire organization. As one of the sources said<\/em>, an outright lie that I had spoken against the white<\/em> race in terms of them being uh, weak in certain areas, and\u2013 and made aspersions on their sexual<\/em> orientation. How\u2013 How ho\u2013 horrible. As I say, in this pastoral community of nonviolence and peace and justice, as I hear even now from the school adjacent to us, the singing of uh, Swahili, youngsters learning their background, becoming connected with their historic past, which gives them renewed pride. I can\u2019t understand, Mike, why Peoples Temple would be a threat to anyone.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Do you feel that this uh, conspiracy was initiated against us because we tried to live as socialist in a capitalist society? Is that basically the reason?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Undoubtedly. However, I am bewildered, I\u2013 I wouldn\u2019t even begin to try to give explanation. I can say that we\u2019ve had a strong body of support. Cesar Chavez\u2019 farmworker movement, Angela Davis, black teachers caucus, black legislative caucus, I could enumerate hundreds<\/em> of supporters\u2013 Lieutenant Governor of California [Mervyn Dymally], several Congress individuals, members of Congress and legislature, Willie Brown, perhaps one of the most renown champions of civil rights uh, legislator from California, and we could go on and on with a host of church leaders, the head of the Council of Churches [likely Rev. Norman E. Leach, could be Donneter Lane], who have come to our full<\/em> support in this trying ordeal. And it\u2019s been hell, to pull it mildly. But I presume<\/em> that somehow<\/em>, even though a group is practicing socialism 5000 miles away, if it is a model and succeeding, that that is a threat to certain reactrin\u2013 reactionary elements in the United States.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Some of the harassment seems to\u2019ve followed us here. Do you feel that it\u2019s all part of the same conspiracy that originated in the States?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> We are told by prominent attorneys such as Charles Garry and head of the Black Newspaper Publishers Association [Carlton Goodlett], and many, many other civil rights spokespersons, and socialist activists, as well as liberals, that we are indeed the victims of a gigantic<\/em> conspiracy that has reached clear to this country. I uh\u2013 I\u2019m surprised they have that kind of money available to them. We have had one instance of clear evidence of a person [Tim Stoen] trying to come here to dispute a matter of custody, where they had monies, uh, resources that would be impossible<\/em> for them to have on their own.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> I uh\u2013 Do you feel that we are a big threat, or represent a big threa\u2013 threat because the\u2013 of the number of people? We have many hundreds here who are absolutely committed to live \u2013 and to die \u2013 uh, for socialism.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I suppose that very testimony, whether it\u2019s in two or three or in uh, hundreds, as we now have here on this Jonestown community project, and a few thousand back in the States, I presume the very fact that people are pacifist, committed to nonviolent, doesn\u2019t uh, redeem them in the eyes of those who wish to oppress. If they believe in some form of egalitarianism, and particularly if they\u2019ve been so bold as we to name it socialism, then that is unacceptable still to the uh, community norm of the United States. As exemplified in the present administration of President [Jimmy] Carter, I think certainly is trying to take a course of uh, recognition of the right of countries to build their form of economic order, but undoubtedly<\/em>, at the grassroots level of the United States, there is a frightening<\/em> increase of racism<\/em>, to such a degree that George Meany, a moderate labor leader of AFL-CIO, has now said that we are endangered by Nazism, a Fascist era, and unfortunately Peoples Temple has been a practicing<\/em> co\u2013 a group of Christians who have demonstrated the Acts of the Apostles, and we have been on the side of every person that\u2019s been oppressed, even people we didn\u2019t agree with, and I suspect that that is the essential reasons, according to the authorities that we have spoken to, some of them at the very high levels of government who are sympathetic. That<\/em> is the reason why Peoples Temple\u2019s being singled out for this kind of persecution.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> What goals do you envision for the Jonestown community here?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> To become assimilated into the Guyanese community at large\u2013 (voice fades) (tape edit) And of course, we\u2019re achieving that in many ways. We\u2019ve adopted Guyanese children, our young folk are interrelating with Guyanese youth, our services are being extended to the greater Northwest District, we\u2019ve distributed thousands<\/em> of pounds of rice weekly for some time now, and a good degree of plantain and thousands of pounds of fish on other occasions. Our medical services are now reaching out, much to our delight, to the community. We have as high a level of medical care as you could find anyplace in the world. Our doctor [Larry Schacht] did a surgery the other evening on an eye that was considered impossible, to do it by emergency net, but he did so, and saved a young man\u2019s eye, a worker who had uh, had something burned<\/em> into the cornea. There\u2019ve been emergencies of cardiac nature, uh, where he has uh, done impossible things. And of course with<\/em> him, the\u2013 the medical doctor in Peoples Temple\u2019s Jonestown project, are a skilled list of uh, pharmacists and medical practitioners, registered nurses and licensed nurses that\u2013 of all<\/em> sorts and descriptions. We hope that we\u2019ll be able to extend our food production to meet the needs of the country\u2019s goals, to feed, clothe and house its people, and also to reach out to the needs of the world. We certainly are intending with every bit of our fiber to extend our services to all people in Guyana.<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Thank you, Bishop Jones. Now we\u2019d like our listeners to hear some of our community singing. They\u2019re going to sing a song that means a lot to us, and also reflects our socialist commitment.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I\u2019m a socialist today\u2013 I\u2019m a socialist today, and I\u2019m glad.<\/p>\n

Singers: <\/strong>(sing) I\u2019m a socialist today, and I\u2019m glad.<\/p>\n

I\u2019m a socialist today, and I\u2019m glad.
\nI\u2019m a socialist today, I\u2019m a socialist all the way, I\u2019m a socialist today, and I\u2019m glad.
\nI\u2019m a socialist today, and I\u2019m glad.
\nI\u2019m a socialist today, and I\u2019m glad.
\nI\u2019m a socialist today, I\u2019m a socialist all the way, I\u2019m a socialist today, and I\u2019m glad.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Another number\u2013 What\u00ad\u2013 What number would you like? United forever in friendship and labor?<\/p>\n

Singers: <\/strong>(enthusiastically) Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> United forever in friendship and labor.<\/p>\n

Singers: <\/strong>(sing adapted version of Soviet National Anthem):<\/p>\n

United forever in friendship and labor,
\nOur mighty people shall ever endure.
\nThe great socialist union shall live through the ages.
\nThe dream of a people their fortress secure.
\nLong live the socialist motherland,
\nWe were built by the people’s mighty hand.
\nLong live our people, united and free.
\nStrong in this socialist dream.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That number, though commemorated to another socialist liberation, is now commemorated to our homeland of Guyana.<\/p>\n

Singers:<\/strong> (enthusiastically) Yeah. (applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> We\u2019re on a socialist journey.<\/p>\n

Singers: <\/strong>(sing) We\u2019re on a socialist journey.<\/p>\n

The hills aren\u2019t so hard to climb
\n(Unintelligible lyrics)
\nWe\u2019ve got our eyes on a vision
\nForever we are bound
\nFor we\u2019re on the road to freedom
\nAnd nothing can stop us now.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Jones:<\/strong> We know the way to freedom. Over in Guyana in our new home.<\/p>\n

Singers: <\/strong>(sing) We know the way to get to freedom<\/p>\n

We know the way to get to freedom
\nStanding at the crossroads, we know which way to go
\nWhich way to go
\nWe know the way to get to freedom
\nWe know the way to get to freedom
\nStanding at the crossroads, we know which way to go
\nWhich way to go
\nThe road to the left is rocky,
\nPeople travel it now and then
\nThe road to the left is rocky
\nBut there\u2019s a light shining at the end
\nOh!<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been listening to a portion of the 700 residents of the Peoples Temple Agricultural Project, singing some of our socialist themes. Write to Bishop Jim Jones and Peoples Temple at Post Office Box 893, Georgetown. Peace and blessings.<\/p>\n

Singers: <\/strong>(sing) The road to the left is rocky,<\/p>\n

People travel it now and then
\nThe road to the left is rocky
\nBut there\u2019s a light shining at the end
\nWe know the way to get to freedom
\nWe know the way to get to freedom
\nStanding at the crossroads, we know which way to go
\nWhich way to go.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

End of tape<\/strong><\/p>\n

Tape originally posted May 2016<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1, Pt. 2). Part I: (Buzz) Jones: You follow what I\u2019m saying? We don\u2019t want you to […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":626,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-66808","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/66808","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=66808"}],"version-history":[{"count":8,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/66808\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":127149,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/66808\/revisions\/127149"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=66808"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}