{"id":68782,"date":"2017-03-13T14:30:53","date_gmt":"2017-03-13T21:30:53","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=68782"},"modified":"2023-06-18T11:57:06","modified_gmt":"2023-06-18T18:57:06","slug":"q963-transcript","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=68782","title":{"rendered":"Q963 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>,\u00a0Pt. 2<\/a>).<\/p>\n

(This tape was transcribed by Georgiana Mamlakah. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)<\/em><\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I\u2019m lying. That\u2019s why I got in trouble\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Wait a second, wait a second. Mary, Mary. Wait a second here. Look at it\u2013 are you stealing around here, or aren\u2019t you? (unintelligible word). No, you\u2019re not entitled to be a child. I<\/em> wasn\u2019t entitled to be a child. Say, I had bad conditions, well, fuck<\/em> your conditions. (Pause) Say, your conditions outdo my conditions because, (unintelligible phrase) ought to be given a seat. Man of his years, and I\u2018ve raised him up from the stroke, they carried him out here in death<\/em>. There ought to be more suscen\u2013 uh, susceptibility\u2013 sensitivity to (unintelligible word) that. (pause) And so should [Eugene] Chaikin, not because he\u2019s an attorney, but because he has a very drastic condition. There\u2019s a seat over here and there\u2013 there\u2013 there\u2019re seats over here, I\u2019m sure. (Pause) (voice rises) All right. Now we will continue with the uh, marathon and almost futile<\/em> efforts to explore our conscience. Are you sicker than me?<\/p>\n

Voice:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I doubt it. You don\u2019t know what a blood sugar of 45 is. Ask the doctor. It\u2019s pretty bad. Makes you feel awfully miserable. Your blood sugar should be 90. Mine never gets over 45. Every time they take it, it\u2019s 45, 45, 45, 45. Nurses take it, doctor takes it, it\u2019s always 45. That leaves me in headaches and uh, dizziness, extreme irritation, like to just knock the block off of people, but I never do. And it\u2019s always direct, when I do feel like knocking the block, it\u2019s a block that deserves to be knocked<\/em>, if you understand. Out of frustration. You may be around me when I can\u2019t get to a block that I want to knock<\/em>, so you\u2019ll feel my voice raise or\u2013 I\u2019ve had no disturbance. I jumped off a pulpit once and had one\u2013 one<\/em> little uh, issue of uh, irritation display in this place, and I\u2019ve been through two goddamn wars, planning the defenses of our people in America and in Georgetown and here. And the last time I jumped off a pulpit\u2013 It\u2019s been a long time ago. (unintelligible word) I don\u2019t even remember who grabbed her throat. And that\u2019s what insulin does, it drives you. It\u2019s how I can keep this enormous pace, I suppose. It\u2019s still also care\u2013 awesome, because it makes that generator out there sound like\u2013 It makes all your whispers sound like (shouts) cannon. (Pause) (Normal tone) Now just cool it and that generator sounds like somebody thub\u2013 uh, beating a drum in my ear. And you can\u2019t know that. I don\u2019t even give a shit. I don\u2019t give<\/em> a shit whether you know anymore. I\u2019m not even caring, \u2018cause I don\u2019t believe anybody will<\/em> know. I think I will be put<\/em> down in the history, if there is a history of this place and the successive leadership, they\u2019ll put me down because I had to be the tough guy. And nobody likes a tough guy. Some<\/em> people like to be tough guy. I don\u2019t like it. That what\u2013 that\u2019s why I can be trusted<\/em> with it. Some people like<\/em> power. I hate<\/em> it. I\u2019d rather be the friend. You can see that when I go down and pat you and love you and cry with you. That\u2019s my nature. Anyway (exhales) I have the\u2013 as many problems as you, came from just as poverished a background as you, I mean a poverished<\/em> background, impoverished<\/em> background. So we went through one winter where we had no food. I was thrown off a bridge by my dad, and rejected much as could be by my mom, who had to fight for survival<\/em>, and I had to live alone and find my way. I went through the hate and the cold with no doctor. When the ice was coming through the roof, and landing on my body. I mean (unintelligible word) forming ice on my\u2013 on the cover that I had on my bed. I have known poverty. Normally, psychologically, that would make you very, very, very mean. You\u2019d come out and you\u2019d be the worst capitalist on earth, if you know anything of psychological evaluation. Instead of being a caring<\/em> person, that kind of aggression, hostility imposed on you by external<\/em> circumstances would make you not<\/em> a caring person. You\u2019ll usually find it makes a person very (unintelligible word) cap\u2013 capitalistic. But instead of doing that, it taught me \u2013 and I don\u2019t know what taught me \u2013 made<\/em> me teach myself, that it isn\u2019t right for any child to go through what I did, and I\u2019m trying very hard to keep children from going through pain<\/em>. Unfortunately, to get a free land that belongs to us and be able to be economically self-sufficient and have our own food, and fight off the enemy, we have to be highly unified, and that takes discipline, that takes work, that takes structure. The government backing uh, as they have backed us\u2013 still<\/em> backing us, in spite of those that\u2013 the US is grumbling uh, would not<\/em> come\u2013 would not<\/em> come at all. What backing we\u2019ve had, would\u2019ve never come, if we had\u2019na come out here and seen a highly organized, almost spartan<\/em> society producing. (Pause) And if you can imagine survival any other way, until the nuclear war comes and wipes the USA off the face of the earth, I don\u2019t know how you can talk<\/em> about it. They\u2019d throw us out<\/em> of this country, if we were a bunch of hippies running around with our beards and long hair. And even if you made agriculture,<\/em> they would. There was a group of Americans just across the wood that did so, and they threw them out. They lined them up and loaded them up in a plane one night and took them away, because they were growing marijuana.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Stirs.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> They didn\u2019t let them take a penny<\/em> with them. All\u2013 They left everything behind and can never return, and the only way\u2013 So I know what the history of this country is. They\u2019re wanting people to come in and set examples<\/em>, and the CIA and the Interpol and every other damn conspiracy\u2019s tried to do everything to (voice rises) destroy<\/em> us, and to make it impossible<\/em> for me to function here, and keep me diverted. Then I\u2019ve got people here that could lead<\/em>, and do<\/em> more. People frustrate their efforts. Then there\u2019re are some, I\u2019m reading here about one leader who uh, one of the cassava crews uh\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2013 You\u2019re a good person<\/em>, but they said they can\u2019t talk to you. Any\u2013 anything they say to you, you\u2013 you are defensive. You will never lead that way. You can\u2019t do your best job that way. And it\u2019s true of a\u2013 a many<\/em> a leader here. They got real problems. They don\u2019t deal with people, they don\u2019t like people, and they refuse<\/em> to be kind to people. Um-hmm [Yes]. See anything less th\u2013 It\u2019s anything but an ideal circumstance. It\u2019s not<\/em> ideal. We have some leaders who are kind, but very few. And I\u2019m not in any mood, \u2018cause I just\u2013 I would just as\u2013 I\u2019m just in so much pain, I just like to fall over. So it\u2013 it doesn\u2019t make any difference to me. It doesn\u2019t make any difference. I see some that are not here. Where are they? (pause) I see people who are not<\/em> here. (Stumbles over words) What the\u2013 what excuse have they got? Hmm?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (too low)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible word) All in a sense of righteous indignation, and I would suggest if you know\u2013 have any idea of who I might be referring to, I would suggest that you get them in here very quickly, because I\u2019m liable to explode, because this is a very just demeanor that I\u2019m in. I\u2019m not uh\u2013 not uh, at all disturbed in any sense of my mental or physical equilibrium, I\u2019m just disturbed with people who think that they have a right, (voice rises) even though they do (reverts to conversational) in their family style of USA to take special privilege. But not here. By giving and being a communist parent, I\u2019ve given my children more than \u2013 and I can say that with holding my head high \u2013 I\u2019ve given them more than I would if I had been a capitalist parent. My children would\u2019ve been destroyed by drugs and street crime, just like yours. And when you get sick and upset\u2013 Shift yourself. When you get disturbed about it, stop and think about it. How many of our kids were on their way to jail? How many?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (too low)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I see some of your hands didn\u2019t raise. (stern) You had kids. You had kids that were going to jail<\/em> for shoplifting<\/em>. They were doing it, they were sure as hell doing it. I know<\/em> what was happening in San Francisco. How many of you kids were shoplifting?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (too low)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Now you find any exceptions to that. How many of the adults<\/em> were shoplifting too? Be honest. Real honest.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (too low)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Kids and children, put your hands up. Yeah, look (unintelligible word)\u2013 More than just putting people on Learning, Learning, Learning, that isn\u2019t going to reveal who I am. That\u2019s why I mean principle<\/em>. So we\u2019ve got to do other things than just administration. Normally our meetings not made up of me talking. They\u2019re made up of certain responses<\/em> really to uh, good behavior and bad<\/em> behavior. (pause) So why don\u2019t you look at your life, and say hey, I\u2019m making a plus one out of myself, or a plus nine usually. We\u2019re supposed to be zeros<\/em>. We\u2019re supposed to be nothing, nothing, nothing, crucified, nothing. (unintelligible word) Damn it, I want this. Think about the little black baby in South Africa that\u2019s starving to death in its mother\u2019s arms as a result of US dollars that you\u2013 (feedback) US tax dollars that you<\/em> paid. You paid, fucker, didn\u2019t work all day. You<\/em> paid. You\u2019re a murderer<\/em>. Everyone here is a murderer. We\u2019re trying to make up for it, but you\u2019re a murderer. Twenty, ten, five, (voice rises) forty years, some of you paid taxes.<\/p>\n

Voices in Crowd:<\/strong> (Agree)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Where\u2019s your taxes? It\u2019s over there. It\u2019s tax<\/em> dollars over there, and your US colonels and majors are over in Rhodesia, torturing little babies and pulling off the balls\u2013 having the little babies pull off the balls off their dads like Obleeku [phonetic]. (Pause) You\u2019re a murderer. (Deliberate) You are a murderer. You and I have been murderers. You say, I\u2019m not, I\u2019m a kid. You ate the fucking food that the dad and mom put on your\u2013 on your plate. You ate\u2013 you ate\u2013 you ate the food, so all of you are murderers too. Every time you bought Coca-Cola, you helped Coca-Cola, one of the biggest investors in South Africa that has caused the uh\u2013 the racist terror and murder. Every time you did it. I bet you come in now.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Watch that blackboard. Put it over there closer. We don\u2019t want to destroy it. I have to worry about every piece of property. If you did, I would be able to be much more of the gentle father, instead of having to give so many rules. (Calls out) We all were guilty. Not only do we have to look outside the United States, 200 people dropped\u2013 were\u2013 were killed by the FBI in Wounded Knee. (Disdainful) Who pays the FBI? Your taxes. The FBI that murdered the black leaders, the Panthers, Malcolm. I just read to you tonight in the news. (cries out) Who murdered them? (low voice) You. Me. Our dollars. And you set there looking tired (Shouts) Fuck you<\/em>. I\u2019m going to come out and beat your head now. Least you should stay with it tonight, \u2018cause I don\u2019t talk. I usually don\u2019t talk. (Pause) Got no reason to feel tired. You ought to feel guilty<\/em> tonight. You have a-plenty to eat, and you can go back for seconds. I\u2013 I passed a woman today, that she\u2019s twenty to thirty pounds too heavy, and the plate was heaped like it\u2013 it\u2013 it\u2013 it looked like something you give to a hog. (Pause) You got no right. You got no right to complain. Uh-uh [No]. No right to complain. (Emphatic) Not one right in the world, when little babies are dying in mother\u2019s arms. Even children are being napalmed in Mozambique on the border as they were uh, last night. You got no\u2013 you got no right, \u2018cause your tax dollars (forceful) paid for the napalm. Your taxpayer\u2019s dollars, yours, yours, yours, yours, every one of you. You old people think you\u2019re not\u2013 You (unintelligible word) get uptight over sex. You wouldn\u2019t do anything, (angry) some of you, you wouldn\u2019t fuck. Oh, that\u2019s so terrible, fuck for socialist. That\u2019s so horrible. (low tone) Boy, I\u2019m glad\u2013 I\u2019m glad our freedom didn\u2019t depend on you. I\u2019m very glad I didn\u2019t feel as sanctified holy as you, or we wouldn\u2019t have<\/em> the medical equipment, the 10,000 dollar microscope, just one of them alone, 10,000 dollars. We wouldn\u2019t have<\/em> the 10,000 dollars coming in X-ray, we wouldn\u2019t have<\/em> the electrocardiograms, two of them. Wouldn\u2019t have them. (Riases voice) What the hell? You always questioning my honesty. Questioning my honesty. I\u2013 Anybody know that I gave all these millions up, when I coulda collected it. You people that\u2019ve given it to me. When I healed you\u2013 How many have I healed here? How many have I got out of trouble<\/em>? How many have I got your loved ones out of jail? All right, for Christ sake. Yes, yes, he said I got my (unintelligible word) got us<\/em> out of jail. Now, wouldn\u2019t you give me the money? You\u2019da given me the money. Well, you did<\/em> one time. You signed it all over. When they wouldn\u2019t follow me, they signed it over. I don\u2019t know, it\u2019s uh, a few hundred thousand dollars? Did I take it? Hell, no. Obviously I didn\u2019t take it. Got my first shirt. Somebody passed this down the way, I don\u2019t know whose it was, it was too heavy. It\u2019s not good for work out in the field, but at least it\u2019s a shirt that isn\u2019t\u2013 isn\u2019t too tight<\/em> on me. Only I uh\u2013 Still I got the same two pair of pants with holes in them. So (voice rises) obviously<\/em> I\u2019m not uh\u2013 I\u2019m not taking advantage. Who in the hell would want\u2013 This is a picnic. Somebody says he gonna the\u2013 one\u2013 one of the uh, first comers, they say, well, he\u2013 there\u2019s some rumor that I\u2019m\u2013 I come\u2013 come over here and make slaves out of the people, and then\u2013 then kick you off after I\u2019ve g\u2013 got the place. What the hell would I want with it? (chuckles) I don\u2019t want to even live<\/em>, so what would I want with this place? And I wouldn\u2019t want it, unless you could share it. But I can take seven-and-a-half million dollars, if I\u2019da sold you out, and I can still<\/em> get it. All I have to do is get the CIA on the line, (claps hands once) tell them and leave you. Shit. They\u2019d pay me ran\u2013 They\u2019d pay me handsome. They\u2019d pay me riches<\/em>. And where would I\u2013 Go\u2013 Go sit in a resort some place. I can set in a resort<\/em>, eat what I want to, drink what I want to, and have tailor-made clothes, if I wanted to. But I couldn\u2019t do that. That\u2019s not me, \u2018cause I couldn\u2019t live with my conscience. (Shouts) You got no place you can go. Back to the States in worst condition you\u2019ll be that\u2019ll grab your ass. You got nothing to sell. Well, I\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2019ll give\u2013 What you\u2019re going to sell? One of you skip over and go over the hills, if you can make it through the snakes and the tigers, which are 14 feet long, we found with some of the folk coming back up there in the cassava. One swat of the paw and breaks your back. If<\/em> you got through<\/em>, what the hell you going to sell. (chuckles) Every fucker\u2019s gone before you. Wake that girl up on that post. Don\u2019t you sleep on me tonight, I\u2019m in no mood for it. I like you, you\u2019re a nice girl, Carol, but don\u2019t sleep on me. Not tonight. There\u2019re a few times I teach, and when I do, I don\u2019t want nobody sleeping. It\u2019s been weeks since I taught. (Pause) Shift yourself. (Pause) Sit down. George, you can jump up and down, I don\u2019t mind. (Pause) Now, one man all day long you spent\u2013 You\u2019ve been here two days, one day you get the day off, but (draws out word) all day long, you avoided work. I beg on the bottom bri\u2013 brigade and you never showed up. You can get your ass in church, and you gotta be forced to get here. Don\u2019t play games here. Uh-uh, uh-uh, uh-uh. You didn\u2019t come over here to do that. We didn\u2019t bring lazy asses over here. You\u2019re a killer<\/em>. You\u2019re a killer<\/em>. I said you\u2019re a murderer<\/em>. You got to make restitution for your murder, just like I did. You gotta give yourself as much as you can, to try to make a better world, to create food so we can bring in more people and give them a chance to get out of the racist hell. And finally make a revolutionary core<\/em> to build a better world<\/em>. That\u2019s not now, that would be Trotskyism, if we did that now. Hm? (Pause) I hope you understand what I\u2019m talking about. I hope we all understand each other. Laziness does not go in socialism. Say, I\u2013 well, I didn\u2019t understand, you\u2013 you\u2019re\u2013 if you\u2019re a Christian. Paul was hard on it worse than I. He said if you don\u2019t work, you don\u2019t eat<\/em>. And he didn\u2019t say whether you\u2019re 72 or 29<\/em>. He said, you don\u2019t work, you don\u2019t eat<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And if I<\/em> say that, then some of you folks uh, would starve to death. \u2018Cause you don\u2019t do a spit<\/em> lick of work. You think we don\u2019t know you. (chuckles) Shit. Hypochondriacs lying up with the nursing de\u2013 quarters. Ah, shit, we know you. We know you, you ain\u2019t got no more trouble than that post<\/em> there. (Mimicking tone) Got this trouble, and I got that trouble, and I got this trouble, and shit. (Normal tone) One woman, we thought she\u2019s dying, we run out of medicine, we had to change it for aspirin, and shit, she got to feel better, and she said oh, my God. Oh glory hallelujah. You\u2019re going to have to have surgery. Oh, I\u2019m feeling real good. (Chuckles) (Pause) Yeah. We know<\/em> you, honey, so quit your games. Some of you get backaches, and you get your\u2013 uh, you get this busted and you get that busted. (Draws out word) All the reason you do it is because you want to lay off. Quit<\/em> tying up our surgery when we\u2019re in a war. Hm?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Face<\/em> your subconscious. Avoid<\/em>\u2013 avoid<\/em> accidents. I try\u2013 I wo\u2013 I work hard. You watch me when I was running over there to run to get to the brigade, because I had to run from the radio and run back. When I ran, you watch how I run. Jump over the plants, carefully, jump and I\u2019m going on 50. And I jump jump jump jump. Move carefully. I don\u2019t just run haphazardly, though, to sprain my ankles, \u2018cause if I sprain my ankles, you\u2019ll be in trouble. If I sprain one it\u2019ll be in str\u2013 real\u2013 real\u2013 you\u2019ll know, it\u2019ll be on an accident. Oh, I know some people\u2019ll do it too. Sprain it by accident. But there some<\/em> folks that have accidents all the goddamn time to keep out of work.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Stirs.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Hmm. I just want you to know that I do<\/em> know you. We\u2013 You thought you were going to get a little Marxist parliamentarian. I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m talking pragmatism now, practical<\/em> thought. I don\u2019t know what else there is to cover on that subject. I don\u2019t think you can make people be a zero unless they uh, are decent. And the only way you make decent people, Mao [Tse Tung] says, is out of the barrel of a gun. Now there\u2019s people not looking at me right now, and shaking their head, and moving back and forth. I\u2019ll bet you if I pointed my revolver at you, I bet your eyes would uh, get open. I bet that woman wouldn\u2019t be nodding, would she. And the man over there, he said he couldn\u2019t work today, he had\u2013 he had real pain. I bet you\u2013 I put my gun on you, I bet you\u2019d work all night without stopping.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>Stirs.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Bet you\u2013 I bet you can carry wheelbarrow after wheelbarrow.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Scattered laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Um-hmm. Thank you, Reb [James Edwards].<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And others, if I just say, well, by God, if you don\u2019t do it, you\u2019re going to get something else<\/em>. Death wouldn\u2019t bother some of you, but something else would. I\u2019d get to you. We make convenience for our ailments. Some people dying, don\u2019t even come see the doctor. Hmm?<\/p>\n

Voices in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And then in a moment of when they think they\u2019re going to go over, like Rose Peterson giving up with cancer, I come along, and heal. If it\u2019s the right time and place, it\u2019ll be. Several<\/em> like that. Several right to the jaws of death and ready for surgery. Pauline Simon, laying in intensive care, says there\u2019s no way she\u2019s can live. Why didn\u2019t she get healed? Her goodness? No, there\u2019s other reasons there. (chuckles) Don\u2019t ask me a fucking thing tonight, I\u2019ll tell you. I hope you don\u2019t. I hope some things you don\u2019t ask me. You getting ready to ask me another question, Joyce? Be careful. I could tear this place up tonight with my mouth.<\/p>\n

Joyce:<\/strong> It isn\u2019t anything personal. (chuckles) Uh, I\u2013 I\u2019ve noticed\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I don\u2019t give a goddamn.<\/p>\n

Joyce:<\/strong> I\u2019ve noticed you frequently referred to uh, the kind of\u2013 of thought that you go by as Marxist-Leninist, a combination of the two. And I wondered in what way they were combined.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, [Karl] Marx is the theory, and [Vladimir] Lenin practiced it. He put it into practice. He developed it, and he improvised<\/em> the thought and adapted<\/em> it to human conditions. That\u2019s why I say Marxist-Leninist thought and Marxist-Leninist practice. Lenin is the father of the revolution. Marxist dreamed about it, and Lenin established it, and that\u2019s what\u2013 that\u2019s pretty much what I mean. Um-hmm [Yes].<\/p>\n

joyce:<\/strong> (too soft).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Oh, I don\u2019t know. That\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s a good thing I need to elaborate on. But I don\u2019t know how to elaborate on it, other than I\u2019ve told you, when you feel like you\u2019re entitled to something, try to force yourself to imagine what it would be, uh, if you were to quit. Everybody\u2019s got somebody that\u2019d be hurt. Say, nobody\u2019d miss me. Oh yes, they would. Most of you got somebody, some little baby that looks to you. Some little child that you\u2019re the only source of love. Some neighbor that needs your help in the field. And if there wasn\u2019t<\/em> anybody, what about the babies in the world that we could really\u2013 We could make a touch\u2013 We can make an inroad to the tomorrows. Another moment we can organize ourselves heavily, and make a reverse and go back and raise a lot of hell in several cities. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s practical. I don\u2019t<\/em> think that\u2019s practical. There\u2019s not enough going on back there to do<\/em> it. So we have to make our stand here. But there\u2019s always a\u2013 a way you can think less of yourself, if you\u2019ll try. You can look around and see somebody who\u2019s had more pain than you. Right in this room, you can find some pretty bad shit. Made slaves\u2013 made<\/em> slaves here, made to work all day, gettin\u2019 up in the morning, just layin\u2019 down at night, sunrise until sun setting, and some later. And drop babies in cotton fields, and watch them die. Most of the mothers in here have lost children. You\u2019ve raised a typical middle class audience? Not so. How many have lost children here? (Pause) You think about that. You lost them because you were black, you were a worker, you were an oppressed person, you were brown, you were poor white. Same conditions, if you\u2019d been rich, you wouldn\u2019t\u2013 they wouldn\u2019t have had. Oh, there are things that get to the rich too, they finally get\u2013 Help this sister, don\u2019t make her hold\u2013 hold her arm in this one position all the time. She oughta have different people to take\u2013 Switch with her. I\u2013 uh, sure I\u2019m sure, the rich must die a miserable death. Anybody must be miserable<\/em> to be a J. Paul Getty and do the kind of shit<\/em> that he did. Put pay telephones in his house, and then one time have a heart attack, \u2018cause he can\u2019t get a goddamn dime to make a long distance call, and lost three million dollars, I remember, three million dollars, on the market someplace, \u2018cause he didn\u2019t have a fucking dime to use the telephone. Now that\u2019s miserable<\/em> and stupid<\/em>. And to fight with his own son [J. Paul Getty, Jr.] over an inheritance, and then they send his grandson [J. Paul Getty III] \u2013 When they kidnap him, they sent his ear, and he\u2019s so miserably cruel. (calls out) He\u2019s so miserably cruel, to wake you up there, dear. Young woman. Don\u2019t you sleep on me. (Reverts to former tone) So miserably<\/em> cruel that they sent him his ear, and he refuses to give a goddamn dime. But he died alone. They said when he died in the hospital, nobody visited him. Five days in the hospital, or whatever it was, nobody visited him. Nobody liked him, and he left no legacy but pain<\/em>. However, the working class, as I said here, you can look around and find some in this working class that have suffered more than you. I\u2019m sure when you think of the babies that are being beat to death by our US soldiers, by our tax dollars, (call out) I would think, love\u2013 (Pause) You\u2019re so conscious of cold, aren\u2019t you, a little rain. Some of you just all shuffled around, (unintelligible) get a little drop on you. (Tsks) This breeze feels good, if you\u2019ll think it so.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Murmurs.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It\u2019s the coolest breeze we\u2019ve had, but it\u2019s good for you. Maybe it\u2019ll blow some of that dust out of our brains. I\u2013 I\u2013 I really don\u2019t know how you can possibly imagine how your life is so bad, when you think of Obleeku\u2019s child being beat for two days, till the child, six years old, finally can\u2019t resist anymore and takes the wire that the US officers put in their\u2013 uh, his little hands, tightens it around the ball of his daddy\u2019s scrotum, and pulls and pulls, till the ball comes off. I don\u2019t think you\u2019re that bad off tonight. I really think if you kept that in your mind, you\u2019d feel less miserable. You oughtna be complaining. And you that let them complain, you\u2019re as bad. You sit and listen to their chitter chatter and their bullshit, you oughta stop it. In your dorms and your cottages, you oughta stop it. Hm?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You think I don\u2019t know you. One back there at the back, you think I don\u2019t know you. Hell, your wife oughta report you all the time, but she\u2019s passive<\/em>. She\u2013 she doesn\u2019t have any spine. And if somebody else come along uh, when you get a little\u2013 little older and a little more wiltered and wilted, shit, she\u2019ll drop you like an old dirty dish rag. You don\u2019t develop some character in your companion, they aren\u2019t going to stay with you. You wanted to be a slave and passive and put up with your bullshit, okay. One day you\u2019re going to regret it. \u2018Cause if you let them develop their honesty and integrity, and let them speak their mind, uh, then\u2013 uh, then<\/em> and then alone will you have a companion. Right now all you\u2019ve got is some people enduring<\/em> you. They want to cut your throat, but they endure you. And some would<\/em> cut your throat. I know. They send me notes<\/em>, they\u2019d cut your goddamn throat, but they[\u2018re] afraid the reflection on the community. Hm-mm.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Oh, yes, I\u2019m not asking you to say an amen out there, because I know husbands and wives, that\u2019d get you in trouble, but I know<\/em> what I\u2019m talking about. I get lots of notes every day. Okay, zero<\/em>. I don\u2019t know what more I can say to you, honey, then just think of the millions of babies around the world. Think of those in Thailand that were pushed out by American\u2013 American-aided and American\u2013 often American-navigated craft, pushed out to sea to drown and to die out in the open seas. Thousands of them this past week. Think of the Hai\u2013 Haitians, Haitians or whatever (stumbles over words)\u2013 whatever the word. Think<\/em> of them. Think of them that\u2019re being put out of the United States tonight. Then put\u2013 They were coming in on rafts and refused to be given opportunity and (voice rises) anybody else can come on a raft. Shit, they take in somebody from fascist country every day<\/em>. (voice rises) Run them in there, honey, you can come home<\/em> when communism frees the people. They\u2019ve taken all the dirty pigs<\/em> from fascism. But honey, don\u2019t you come from a fascist dictatorship and don\u2019t be black<\/em>. America isn\u2019t<\/em> the land of opportunity, unless you come filled with all of its capitalist shit. (Calms) And even now, they\u2019re turning those<\/em> down, the Vietnamese that fought their war and was good little\u2013 little Uncle Tommies, good little Aunt Janies, they won\u2019t give them any refuge, and they\u2019re dying out in the Pacific on their way to try to find sanctuary in Australia. You\u2019ll find somebody to make it\u2013 uh, that\u2019s got it worst than you. I<\/em> don\u2019t know what to do to help you make a zero. I don\u2019t know what to do<\/em> with some of you people, who think you have a right. Goddamn nervy bunch of people. They get in my crate and steal my pants. Nervy. You got some nervy people here.<\/p>\n

Voices in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I want one pair of uh, old coveralls, you know to work\u2013 work pants. They get\u2013 They don\u2019t give a shit who they steal. Nervy people. So why do you let them do<\/em> it, Father? If we get an internal struggle\u2013 We\u2019re on the battle with the outside<\/em> right now. Who got time to get\u2013 We\u2019ll\u2013 we\u2019ll keep most of it, I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m pretty purist. I keep most things cleaned up. If it gets anyway too far out of line, I\u2019ll get them. But I gotta depend on inspection committees, and shit, I don\u2019t know. You\u2013 you going to have to get more ingenious and finding places to look for it. Look under the house, look every goddamn place you can find, look uh\u2013 go out in the outer bushes sometimes. Hm-mm. These folks are clever<\/em>. Capitalism is a clever creature, and it doesn\u2019t die easy. I don\u2019t know how anybody can help but see zero, though, just watch me. How I tenderly plan for the well-being of all our babies and our seniors. I was ready to go off to war, but I didn\u2019t want anyone left to be taken and tortured. Most of you were here<\/em>, goddammit, two straight nights and straight days of that shit.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Stirs.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> When we got ready to die as a parlor game. I just love it, don\u2019t you? So beautiful. Shit. I\u2019d rather die<\/em> a thousand times than talk<\/em> about it. Goddamn talk\u2013 talkathons on death, I\u2019m sick of \u2018em. But you gotta talk<\/em> every time because every time you\u2019ll think it was something else that you didn\u2019t think of the time before. Everybody\u2013 Never have a perfect plan. You gotta keep<\/em> reasoning, come reason together. Some of you\u2013 Sure are glad, though, one thing went through it. One old fucker out there, running around, gonna leave his wife and everything, sleeping right now. Was going to leave his wife and everything, going to try to find a way to get in the bush. He didn\u2019t give a shit that his wife died. He didn\u2019t want to get under this pavilion, (draws out word) no way. You think I don\u2019t know your ass, honey. And shit, an old fool like you, you wouldn\u2019t last three years, if you\u2019da lived, if you\u2019da made it, and the fucking snake woulda bit your ass, just like uh\u2013 just like uh, Bernice, I love to work with her in the\u2013 in the bucket brigade. She\u2019s so funny, Bernice Thomas, she got to laughin\u2019 and I got to laughin\u2019, and she said that was so goddamn funny, Patty and Rheaviana [Beam] and Tommy [most likely Bogue]. Tommy said I will, by God, when\u2013 I\u2019d be glad when I\u2019m<\/em> a senior citizen.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Scattered laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I can just see him dealing with those two women. They\u2019re telling him what to do. He says, by God, when do I\u2013 it\u2019ll be good, or whatever he said, I don\u2019t know how he said it. Bernice remembers it just exactly the way it was. And then that fucking business about the snake and Rheaviana says (excitedly) there\u2019s\u2013 there\u2019s a snake. Tommy says, don\u2019t worry about it, don\u2019t worry about it. You don\u2019t have to worry. Three hours later, you\u2019ll be dead.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I just love<\/em> his spirit. He\u2019s got such a passive<\/em> hostility.<\/p>\n

Crowd: <\/strong>Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Tommy\u2019s got it made. You better hope his cutlass is not too sharp.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs) (tape edit) You see. You got those old gals movin\u2019<\/em> in the cassava fields this time. Me\u2013 Uh, Patty was out there in the cassava<\/em> fields, that somebody told me. Yeah, keep at them, uh, boys, you\u2019ll get to moving so fast, that you\u2019ll\u2013 you get to marketeers in the field with<\/em> you. Hm? She\u2019s out in the field today<\/em>. Works an honor, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And Tommy funny. When\u2019ll I get to be a senior citizen so I can give orders?<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> Laughs.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That\u2019s sweet. (pause)<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> (too low)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs) What\u2019s that? Say it louder. You\u2013 Nobody could hear you back there.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> (too low)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Where\u2019s the microphone? Can\u2019t you give her a microphone? (unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

(Mike snaps on)<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> Tommy\u2013 When he, you know, gettin’ rude\u2013 tryin\u2019 to tell him the right thing to do, of course all the time. (laughs) And he gets\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Where is Tommy? Where\u2019s Tommy? Where\u2019s Tommy at?<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> Where is Tommy?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Get over here and don\u2019t let them do this to you, Tommy.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Laughs.<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> He calls me mom out there.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Oh. Thomas.<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> His eyes get about four\u2013 four feet round, he\u2019ll say, fuck you, fuck this, fuck\u2013 I\u2019m through. You old women. Someday I can be boss. Goodbye\u2013 fuck\u2013 We\u2013 we sit down and wait, you know.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs) He\u2019s so\u2013<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> He uh, said he wasn\u2019t going to give him the cassava, and this and that shit, you know, I said\u2013 and in Guyana, they hate<\/em> to be called a robber. \u2018Cause they can\u2019t stand to be called robber or cheat. And I said (laughs) you, Mr. Melvin, are a robber and a cheat, and I said I\u2013 we personally know Dr. [Ptolemy] Reid, I said, tomorrow<\/em>\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs)<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> \u2013I<\/em> will make a trip to Dr. Reid to Georgetown<\/em>. I said your name is\u2013 is going to be read through Guyana as Mr. Melvin, robber and cheat of the people. And\u2013<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Stirs.<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> And he said, well\u2013 he said, tell \u2018em, I\u2013 I said they\u2019re going in tomorrow, and they\u2019re going to get the cassava, whether you\u2019re there\u2013 whether you stand to the side, however you want to do it, they\u2019re going to get cassava. So he brings\u2013 The next day, he brings\u2013 Oh, then Rheaviana<\/em> and I get into this fight, which Tommy thought we staged<\/em>, and we didn\u2019t<\/em> (laughs) but we\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs)<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> We get into this giant<\/em> row, and I told her to come away, and one thing led to another and we rode home, and she says\u2013 screamed out, \u201cFucker! Fucking old Melvin, he\u2019s about shit, he isn\u2019t sure what he heard.\u201d<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> And he\u2019s screaming at me, he said you\u2019re an intolerable<\/em> female, intolerable. He said, you\u2019re vexing me. I said, I\u2019m going to vex you before this night\u2019s over. So she starts spreading her sleeping bag, getting all of her shit, and trailing down into the jungle in the middle of the night down the railroad tracks.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs)<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> And I\u2019m hollering, Tommy, you know she can\u2019t go down there by herself, and I\u2019m walking out behind her, and Sebastian [McMurry] said, this is too much, this is a jungle. You know there are tigers out there in (unintelligible word).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What Sebastian say? What Sebastian say?<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> Sebastian, you know\u2013 (unintelligible). He said (unintelligible word) I said, Sebastian walk. Sebastian, give her a karate chop and get her ass back in\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs)<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> And she\u2013 We can\u2019t even\u2013 We can\u2019t even see her goddamn ass, and we\u2019re flashing the light. And I said, is that her? I said, don\u2019t tell her\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs)<\/p>\n

Patty<\/strong>: I\u2019m here \u2018cause she\u2019s mad at me. Sebastian said, Rheaviana, Rheaviana. She said, what? He said\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs)<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> We\u2013 we\u2013 we\u2013 and I\u2019m hollering, Tommy, you better come on, Tommy, you better hurry up. Tommy, get your (unintelligible word). We walked down there, and she\u2019s sitting on a railroad track (unintelligible word) Rheaviana, what are you doing? I said, now come on and get back. And she said, I\u2019m pissing and I\u2019m thinking.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs)<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> Sebastian\u2013 Sebastian said, you two are a trip, so we wait and pretty soon here comes old Melvin, pit-potting it down there. (makes noises) He said Rheaviana\u2013 Rheaviana and Patty left.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs)<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> And the next day the old son-of-a-bitch come carrying our cassava (unintelligible word) coming over, offering us any goddamn thing we want. He brings a little Amerindian now\u2013 down in\u2013 Carib Indian\u2013 and he says, tell them, George, I gave \u2018em free. Patty, tell \u2018em, I gave<\/em> \u2018em free. I don\u2019t want to be bad Mr. Melvin through the community.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs) (Pause) That\u2019s interesting. That is interesting. You got \u2018em free, and they said very good sticks and that was a tasty dish of cassava tonight, which I thought about starving babies when I ate it. That makes you appreciate it more, hm? Any other qu\u2013 questions. We need to have some questions. We need to get some understanding. Occasionally we\u2019re getting too far away from principle, we have to do it. Shift, please. (pause)<\/p>\n

Patty:<\/strong> Several tigers. There\u2019s a black cat, the 14-foot (unintelligible word, sounds like \u201cturtle\u201d) tiger, there\u2019s some other tigers. I don\u2019t know uh, the names of all of them but uh, he said that last week\u2013 Melvin said last week that a man was eaten by a tiger, and the\u2013 and the tiger ate him\u2013 found (unintelligible word) when they cut into the cutlass of the\u2013 of the man. But they ate\u2013 he ate the man, (unintelligible word) said.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Hm-mm. They\u2019ll do it and yet, they never come in our property, and the snakes don\u2019t bother us, we\u2019ve never been bitten in all the years we\u2019ve been here. We never had a bite.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And they stepped on them, and the snakes have died. All kinds of marvelous things that have happened. Stay on your land, and probably some people try to invade it, they get bit. (Pause) Next question. Come on, ask me some question about politics, history and practice. Yes, restroom, restroom. Yes, Jack?<\/p>\n

Jack:<\/strong> With his Menshevik politics, how he would have fared as a leader? I think it\u2013 I<\/em> feel they woulda really screwed things up badly, I\u2019d like to hear more about that in detail.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I think I\u2013 I think I went over that subject. If you want to add to it, you may. You can add to it. I think I already explained it, he was a\u2013 his romanticism and his idealism and his internationalism uh, would\u2019ve uh, been uh\u2013 would not<\/em> have been tolerated<\/em> by the capitalist powers, and he would\u2019ve been put down.<\/p>\n

Jack:<\/strong> Well, I was referring to the fact that he would\u2019ve played to the bourgeoisie too much.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Tsks) It depends upon who you\u2019re wr\u2013 reading in the writing. I uh\u2013 it\u2019s possible. Why, you think he uh, he would\u2019ve incl\u2013 included\u2013 he would\u2019ve encouraged too much democratization uh, too soon.<\/p>\n

Jack:<\/strong> Oh, I\u2013 I think that in trying to gain his purpose, he would\u2019ve uh\u2013 no I\u2013 (unintelligible word) (Pause) No, I just feel he would\u2019ve uh, gone too much uh\u2013 cooperated too much with the people with money and the uh\u2013 you know, the (unintelligible word).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What gives you\u2013 What gives you the foundation for that?<\/p>\n

Jack:<\/strong> Uh, all I\u2019m (unintelligible word) There was a writer who uh, I\u2013 I read uh, one of the books we have here, it gives a life history of [Leon] Trotsky<\/strong> and it uh, told about him uh, being a leader of the Menshevik which were the ones who cooperated too much with the uh, bourgeoisie\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He was not the\u2013 he was not the leader of the Mensheviks, but he may have been<\/em> a Menshevik. I don\u2019t know at one point at time. I\u2019m not that familiar with all of his uh, earlier history<\/em>, but he was not\u2013 The old president of the Mensheviks [Fyodor Dan<\/strong>] died in the United States. (Pause) I didn\u2019t think he was a\u2013 a rogue in that<\/em> sense, I think he was just too idealistic<\/em>. That\u2019s how I<\/em> would depict him, but if you have some documentation or something you\u2019ve read, I would be more than happy to have it put forth. Anyway I\u2013 I don\u2019t<\/em> think that his concept of starting international revolutions would have worked<\/em>, no more than if we<\/em> start some shit to try to take over Port\u2013 Port Kaituma. I don\u2019t think we\u2019d be tolerated half an hour. Better build here and set an example. We\u2019ll win<\/em> people by example. Produce, so we can bring people in. Then we produce adequately, we can build the place where people will uh, find uh, enough pleasure. Sure, there\u2019s room for pleasure. I don\u2019t need it. But uh\u2013 like we\u2019re now making in the last meet\u2013 steering committee, and we thought of how to build a\u2013 build a uh, lake. Well, that\u2019s an ideal thing for fishing, for life<\/em>. It\u2019s an ideal thing. There\u2019s a lot of problems<\/em> with it, but if we produce<\/em> enough, we can override the problems and turn some wealth and uh, our wealth of our production and build<\/em> such that it could be a source of fishing, swimming, boating, a number of things. Enormous<\/em> source of food supply. (Pause) Go ahead. Go ahead. You get another comments, I have no problem. I d\u2013 I agree with you in fact that Trotsky would not have been a good successor. I think the Soviet Revolution would\u2019ve failed\u2013 would\u2019ve failed. My own personal opinion. Who can know? He did\u2013 (laughs) didn\u2019t succeed. It\u2019s easy to theorize about things that didn\u2019t happen. Yes.<\/p>\n

Male1:<\/strong> (starts inaudible) able to continue the publication of Ishkra.<\/em> He was abroad for quite some time, and even\u2013 even his editorial staff, you know, had split and, you know, had decided to go a different way from him. How did\u2013 how did he\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Are you familiar? I\u2019m not\u2013 I\u2019m not personally familiar. I\u2019m familiar with a number of years he spent in exile in Switzerland and the support. I\u2013 I don\u2019t happen to recall of that particular chapter.<\/p>\n

Male2:<\/strong> That\u2019s what [Josef] Stalin\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Feel free to speak up.<\/p>\n

Male2:<\/strong> Dad, that was why Stalin was so uh, so powerful and why\u2013 why he was able to run everything, because while everybody else was in exile, he was the only one that he\u2013 he was\u2013 he was smart, he\u2013 he stayed in\u2013 he stayed in\u2013 he\u2013 he kept publishing the papers, he kept everything organized, and he was one of the last ones to get arrested and go into exile. And then he got out<\/em> and\u2013 and had everything set up again when everybody else came back. And so he kept all that stuff going and had everything\u2013 he had all the uh\u2013 the underground organized, he had all the secret police organized, he had all the intelligence organized, and then during the war, when Trotsky had to be out on the front trying to look good, uh, Stalin was in the back doing all the\u2013 the shitty paperwork and processing the orders\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He was a worker. He was indeed the worker.<\/p>\n

Male2:<\/strong> And uh, so that\u2013 so that when uh\u2013 when it came time to take over the party he\u2013 he\u2013 he had been running the party for years, and that\u2019s why\u2013 that\u2019s who did it.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t know about the paper, but I know the only facts you\u2019re saying sound very, very familiar to me.<\/p>\n

Male3:<\/strong> (unintelligible beginning) party.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> There was no\u2013 there was no split under Len\u2013 Lenin. No, no there was no split\u2013 uh, Lenin was uh, in very ill health, and uh, Stalin\u2013 There was an internal struggle, there was an internal struggle that uh, finally\u2013 It was even suggested that forces around Stalin killed<\/em> Lenin. I<\/em> doubt that, but I\u2013 I can\u2019t say one way or the other about that. However, I\u2013 I am uh, assured of\u2013 of this, that uh, no\u2013 there wasn\u2019t two\u2013 uh, you\u2019re\u2013 you\u2019re talking about a major party break.<\/p>\n

Male3:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> No, that\u2019s before, that\u2019s before. Menshevik government was a liberal social democrat government before<\/em> the Soviet uh, takeov\u2013 takeover. And it just be\u2013 became decadent, and, like all social democracies, it orienting to capitalism and ba\u2013 it had terrible\u2013 terribly strong economical ties with the Western\u2013 the Western world and uh, Lenin sort of thrust himself on it, took over the minority. He took over the minority government and uh, established a\u2013 a truly uh, communist or a socialist government<\/em>. It\u2019s a fluke accident, so shit, you know, Christ, look at the accidents of history. Think, well, we\u2019re never going to make it. You never know, accidents of history. Damn shell went off, it was one of the attacks on Petrograd, goddamn soldiers (stumbles over words) made a misfire, somebody got drunk and hit the fucking cannon, the cannon went off and landed right in the middle of the ear\u2013 the\u2013 the uh, (chuckles) the palace (chuckles) and the soldiers started running, \u2018cause they thought the goddamn Russians\u2013 the Red\u2013 the Red army, uh, the red guerrillas uh, had taken over. A lot of accidents<\/em> in all this shit. One of you may swing the cutlass that does the job<\/em>. You never know. Maybe you\u2019ll invent something back in the machine<\/em> shop that\u2019ll make the difference or elsewhere, where we\u2019re working fastly on all kinds of ideas. Now with Trotsky and uh, uh, Stalin had a terrible struggle, and Stalin uh, just said Lenin was not fond of him being a successor, but he was too power driven. But uh, I\u2013 I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t agree necessarily with that<\/em>, but we only have a lot of speculations of people who have one point of view or another. They\u2019re partisan<\/em> in what they\u2019re trying to convey. I do\u2013 I\u2013 I simply say we would\u2019ve never seen communism the scale it is today, even with all the errors<\/em> of nationalism, and nationalism is going to be\u2013 it\u2019s there<\/em>. Who in the hell is fond of China\u2019s nationalism<\/em>? Who\u2019s fond<\/em> of it? Who likes a\u2013 a nationalism like China has, but they\u2019ve got a tremendous internal policy of\u2013 of cooperation and socialism and complete<\/em> sharing. Everybody lives in cooperatives, an ideal medical program. And in time those people will get back to their\u2013 their perspective. They\u2013 They\u2019ve built too wonderful a society not<\/em> to get back. There\u2019s no personal wealth<\/em> in the hands of leadership. There\u2019s a tremendous<\/em> economic sharing internally. The\u2013 The Chinese, though, have that mutual strife with the Soviets, the Russians. They\u2019ve been along the border for years, and Russia is a white\u2013 it\u2019s a white\u2013 uh, bl\u2013 you know, white colored thing. It\u2019s a racial<\/em> thing. And all people go through nationalistic<\/em> feelings. I\u2019ve seen in Peoples Temple, Los Angeles have a sense of uh, togetherness against San Francisco, you know. Los Angeles and Redwood Valley and territoriality instincts, it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s everywhere. You used to see it. Remember, you\u2013 you\u2019d see it.<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> People come to the various places, you\u2019d feel out of place, you weren\u2019t too welcome, little cities uh, and I\u2013 I don\u2019t like it, but animals are that way<\/em> and the territoriality\u2013 uh, the territoriality instinct of the animal. You get a goddamn uh, eagle, he\u2013 he designs by nature where in the hell his\u2013 uh, where his uh, territory is and if you move one goddamn square\u2013 you move an inch<\/em> off of it\u2013 off his territory, he\u2019ll kill the next eagle, or he\u2019ll fight till the death. That doesn\u2019t die<\/em> easily in the human species. The unfortunate<\/em> thing in the communist revolution, we had a fucking nuclear age. All thing we didn\u2019t need was nuclear age. Otherwise you\u2019d see a whole world of communism today. But the masterminds of capitalist exploitation, their mass technology, they built these damn bombs, and they\u2019ve known how to use<\/em> them and threaten and divide and conquer, and a great\u2013 a great uh\u2013 Nothing like somebody that\u2019s senile and incapable, using their power wrongly. What the hell you going to do, if you have some crazy in here with a bomb right now, of nitroglycerin. We\u2019re going to deal kind of slowly<\/em> with him. That\u2019s what USA is<\/em> in the eyes of the world, and at times it caused Russia to take policies that were contrary to what China felt was uh, in the interest of international development, and that created more nationalistic tendencies on the part of the Chinese. It\u2019s a\u2013 it\u2019s a bad\u2013 it\u2019s a bad<\/em> ball game to be in a\u2013 in a nuclear age trying to have\u2013 develop revolution. And undoubtedly, we\u2019ll have damn nuclear war before we win the revolution<\/em>. It\u2019s undoubtedly so. The Chinese base their concept<\/em> on that. That\u2019s their whole concept. Let the USSR and the USA fight it out<\/em>. Build a\u2013 build a strong internal development. Take care of the Chinese, keep your resources, because China will be the one who will lead the revolution. I can\u2019t take that kind of pragmatism. I can identify<\/em> with it, \u2018cause in a sense we have to do some of it here. Chinese certainly have taken care of their people to a magnificent degree, building underground shelters, knowing the nuclear war is coming and underground shelters, underground hospitals, and to the degree the underground shelters reach out 100 miles into the hinterland. It\u2019s a\u2013 it\u2019s a very amazing thing the Chinese have done for their people, and they feel that the USSR and the USA represent two<\/em> superpowers, and that they\u2019re both white, and that they will indeed they say uh, develop megalomania, and\u2013 and uh, they\u2019re going to be\u2013 they\u2019re going to destroy each other. And there\u2019re some Chinese theoreticians that say, well, it\u2019s just a matter of fact that there\u2019re going to be a nuclear war, and we better not get involved in making one power greater than the other, because we\u2019ll ex\u2013 we\u2019ll\u2013 we\u2019ll\u2013 we\u2019ll shake the balance of power and bring about the nuclear war uh, sooner<\/em>. I can\u2019t buy that shit. I can\u2019t buy it, but I can identify<\/em> with it. I can understand<\/em> it. I still<\/em> think China will come to their senses in time. And if there was a nuclear war, I think she\u2019ll be quiet capable of leading uh, a generation of tomorrow because she\u2019s building a tremendous society at home. And she\u2013 in Tibet, that\u2019s been annexed by China, has been uh, very sparely communized. And any uh, any government working with China has uh, certainly has uh, received uh, (tsks) technical assistance and aid, but not<\/em> to the degree that the Soviet Union does. The Soviet Union\u2019s a liberator. And I\u2013 I don\u2019t know all their motives, I can\u2019t pretend to know all their motives, but I do know that where Angola needed independence, and they were living in abject<\/em> slavery under the Portuguese regime that was imposed upon \u2018em by US money, as well other corporate monopoly capitalist, it was Russia<\/em> that put the money in the\u2013 the fighting force of the Cuban soldiers that drove<\/em> back the hordes of Portuguese imperialists and freed it. It was the Russian<\/em> money and technically that\u2019s freeing Mozambique. It was Russian<\/em> money and Cuban forces that\u2019s freeing Ethiopia tonight. So I can\u2019t buy racism. I can\u2019t buy it. I think the Soviets uh\u2013 Certainly people say they\u2019re the most\u2013 uh, most racist people on earth. I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m sure there\u2019re some racist people in the Soviet Union, they\u2019re white, but they\u2019re at least helping black people get their freedom, and that\u2013 that speaks pretty well to me. Doesn\u2019t it to you?<\/p>\n

Voices in Crowd:<\/strong> (Agree)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You can\u2019t<\/em>\u2013 you can\u2019t<\/em> develop all your idealism, you can\u2019t put it in practice. You know it\u2019s wonderful. Say, well, I\u2019m idealistic. Somebody asked me last night, what do we think about this<\/em> government uh, dealing with uh, USA. What the hell is this government to do but to deal with the USA? What can<\/em> it do? You crazy old man, USA\u2019s got a Monroe Doctrine in theory<\/em>, even though the law<\/em> has been supposedly long since our\u2013 it\u2019s antediluvian and\u2013 and uh, archaic but still<\/em> in theory<\/em> the USA lives by it. They live<\/em> by the Monroe Doctrine. We won\u2019t let anything happen in our sphere. Everyone knows geopolitics. Every big power has its sphere of influence. Now here\u2019s a little socialist country sitting in the middle of South America, the only<\/em> socialist nation, unless Bolivia wins and they\u2019re in a m\u2013 midst of a revolution. I hope to hell that we get a few more, then that\u2019ll make it easier for us. Also the in\u2013 incoming introduction of the Haitian\u2013 Haitians uh, fleeing from the dictatorship that the Guyanese are going to take in, that\u2019ll<\/em> make it easier for us, because then they\u2019ll be able to make a\u2013 a national policy<\/em> about refugees. Right now there\u2019s only one bunch of refugees in this country. We\u2019re the only fugitives. We\u2019re fugitives from capitalism, that\u2019s certain, not fugitives from justice. But we\u2019re the only refugees here<\/em>. That makes it very, very difficult. But if you get the Haitians<\/em> here, and us<\/em> here, then they can develop some political<\/em> say. Now (calls out) hey! These people are refugees, and your government back there in Haiti may want them for something, and the USA may want them for something, but there\u2019re political uh, uh, reasons and they\u2019re uh, given asylum<\/em> here, and so all your goddamn laws don\u2019t apply to them. Go to hell. Now that\u2019s one of the theories I think that foreign minister\u2019s [Rashleigh Jackson, but could be referring to Reid] operating on. And he\u2013 he\u2013 he\u2019s trying<\/em>, and I think that uh, it\u2019s easy\u2013 We\u2013 we know what we got to have to live by. And if we die, it won\u2019t necessarily make me an enemy of his<\/em>, because he did<\/em> do something very brave and uh, kicked the Stoens [Tim and Grace Stoen] out, and had them on the way to the airplane today. And some little perfunctory \u2013 so he says \u2013 tonight, I didn\u2019t get all, I didn\u2019t get any more copy about it, but somebody in his goddamn office backed down, and uh, when the USA put a bunch of s\u2013 Congress pressure on them, right wing, \u2018cause USA\u2019s going fascist, racist. And then Stoen\u2019s got connections now, he\u2019s in the CIA. They\u2019re going to use him, till they set him up. They know<\/em>\u2013 he oughta know<\/em>, if he\u2019s got an ounce of sense, the white man is dummy. He don\u2019t have much sense, they oughta\u2013 Stoen oughta know the longer he stays here, the longer he plays with his life. (Pause) And he don\u2019t give a shit that\u2013 that man using him. The conspirators<\/em> are using him. That conspiracy using him doesn\u2019t give a goddamn what happens to Tim Stoen. And Tim Stoen is so impassioned<\/em> with his uh, uh, wanting a Montgomery suite. And he\u2019s got a Montgomery office that somebody paid for, and he didn\u2019t have a goddamn dime. And he\u2019s got a plush office on Montgomery Street \u2013 (cries out) Wake up! \u2013 in the financial sector. He got it off of money trying to sell us<\/em> out, but they had him on the way to the airport<\/em> today. I said, well (stumbles over words) unfortunate, somebody got to do awful (unintelligible word), it\u2019s terrible,<\/em> they didn\u2019t throw him out. Well, you know why they didn\u2019t throw him out? United States threatened all the Guyanese that were having legal actions in the United States to be throwed out. (pause) That still<\/em> doesn\u2019t mean we lost Dana [Truss], it doesn\u2019t mean we\u2019ve lost John [Victor Stoen]. Eventually, if the worst<\/em> came to worst, we\u2019re not going to lose them.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Because I will make moves<\/em> that will\u2013 (Laughs) What, are they going to come? They\u2019re going to come in here and get us? Uh, where\u2019re they going to be? They\u2019re going to search all the fucking jungle? Some of you people oughta develop hunting skills, so we can do everything short<\/em> of a war. We don\u2019t have a war again. We damn near had two<\/em> wars. We don\u2019t want a war. Hell, you can put people out there, we can develop skills. (stumbles over words) find those children in seven years. And they\u2019re going to arrest me<\/em>? I\u2013 I wa\u2013 I don\u2019t know about that. I\u2019m hesitant to believe that this country, if we stay strong, a thousand strong. If you leave, you\u2019ll be the killers. We\u2019ll hunt you out. Anybody that betrays and leaves, you weakens us.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> We\u2019ll hunt you out. They\u2019ll be somebody left alive that\u2019ll hunt you out, but as long as we remain a thousand<\/em> strong and produce here, I\u2019m hesitant<\/em> to believe \u2013 and I\u2019m a very cynical person \u2013 I\u2019m hesitant to believe they\u2019re going to send somebody in here to arrest me. I\u2019m hesitant to believe they\u2019re going to come in and pick the wife of my coordinator uh, that are now uh, for another child, they\u2019re going to pick her and take her up and put her up in a paddy wagon. If they try it, they absolutely<\/em> have a sense that we\u2019re a\u2013 a solidified people. Shit, you don\u2019t come across a\u2013 two continents without being in some solidarity.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And there\u2019s a lot of uh\u2013 legal things, legal maneuvers around this shit. In the court process, this is political, now\u2013 and that was brave. That was brave. That was a brave action, and uh, in spite of hell, if we have to die tomorrow, that was a brave action to kick Stoen\u2019s ass out.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Had no reason, he hadn\u2019t broken no law, he\u2019d done nothing, and they kicked his ass, he was almost to the airport, till the United States white right wing racist pressure came down and said no, no, no, no. And somebody\u2013 he\u2019s sick, he\u2019s sick. Always the luck of the stars. Ain\u2019t no God. He\u2019s sick in bed and home, so somebody in the Foreign Office bows to it, and he acts like he\u2019s in utter surprise. It\u2019s just possible, he was. Just surprise\u2013 just possible somebody in his age\u2013 his own office would sell out. Maybe his acting uh, leader\u2013 Oh, what\u2019s going to happen to us, we don\u2019t have any Foreign Minister? Shit, what the hell does it matter? There\u2019re babies dying in uh\u2013 We can fight<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> They\u2019re dying in Mozambique. What uh\u2013 what we supposed to expect? Everybody gets nervous when Dr. Reid\u2019s sick and this and that. So what<\/em>? What we exp\u2013 we supposed to be guaranteed, that we\u2019re going to have a lovely country like this and not have to struggle for it?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All this 30 miles of land, and now they\u2019re gonna have to pay a price?<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> The shit you talking about. We\u2019ve been paying a price all of our life. We\u2019ll pay it till the day we go.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And don\u2019t expect it. It\u2019s beautiful. You say, what are you doing<\/em> it for? What are you doing it for? Why<\/em> you do it? Take<\/em> a walk with me some day. Walk<\/em> through the rice tent. Hear some of those mothers who suffered all their days. Look at Gertrude Nailor,<\/strong> and hadn\u2019t got one of her children here, although it looks promising, we may have a way to get her here in time. But Gertrude doesn\u2019t know it. Gertrude doesn\u2019t know it. Gertrude doesn\u2019t know a thing about it. Every day I meet Gertrude, little tears\u2019ll come in her eyes, and she\u2019ll say, I don\u2019t what\u2013 What is your phrase you\u2019ll say to me. Use your standard phrase. What is it Gertrude says to me?<\/p>\n

Nailor:<\/strong> Oh, I say, thank you, Father, for bringing me to the Promised Land.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And she\u2019ll say every day but\u2013 the little words like that. And she\u2019ll\u2013 but she\u2019ll say it with meaning and with emotion. And people say, thank you for giving me freedom, up and down through the rice tents, older black people that\u2019ve suffered all their goddamn<\/em> life, fucked<\/em> up, fucked<\/em> over, put<\/em> down. Here they can walk without somebody staring at \u2018em or ordering them around, saying do<\/em> this, and they have to say, yes sir, no sir. Now, if one<\/em> black person gets a chance\u2013 This is a resort for a senior. For a senior, this is a resort.<\/p>\n

Voices in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right, that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> This is a goddamn resort. You don\u2019t get<\/em> weather like this. This is ideal weather.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Best weather in the world. A senior that\u2019s been in a goddamn slum\u2013 You look where some of our people had to live in back there. Say, it\u2019s too crowded here. You assholes, you unthankful assholes, you oughta seen how some of \u2018em were living. How they had<\/em> to live. How we were crushed up to make ends meet, even later in our communes. How we had to go through the cold and the drudgery and the goddamn hate and the threats of our buildings being burned down, and they tried<\/em> to burn down one of our senior citizen homes. Had that son of a bitch ablaze, all the back side of it. Burned<\/em> our church down, and then some of these people lived in abject poverty<\/em>. Lived in fear<\/em> to come out of their doors<\/em>. They couldn\u2019t come out of their doors. Now one day<\/em> of this for a black senior, is worth our sacrifice\u2013<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Then you look at these children, you look at these babies, playing out here, and their bravery, and some of you assholes feeling sorry for yourself. Then somebody like Isaac [Rhodes] says, we\u2019re going to win, Dad. Then he stops and he\u2019s a little realistic. What kind of strong kids we\u2019re building. We\u2019re going to win, but he says, even if we don\u2019t, if we die<\/em>, we\u2019ll win.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> If we die<\/em>, we can\u2019t lose, he said.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Shit. Such wisdom. He went on playin\u2019 down the road. Something had to be behind his brain talkin\u2019 like that. He meant that (stumbles over words) what we\u2019re doing is worth dying<\/em> for. Somebody comes in here, their first day, first day, Mitchells. I understood uh, one of them was telling me, say, well, we found something to die for, one of them said. Some of you come over here (imitates voice) well, we don\u2019t got enough meat.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Stirs.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Normal tone) Well, we always had chicken. And unfortunately we didn\u2019t make our population plans, and we couldn\u2019t, and we had a goddamn war, honey. It takes a little while, but some people didn\u2019t (unintelligible word) healed, been put out of jail, been healed of cancer and blindness. Well (imitates dithering) I don\u2019t have this, I don\u2019t have that, when in the hell am I going to get this? I don\u2019t have enough toothpaste. (Calms) Well, why don\u2019t you do like that old fucker they\u2019d been dealing with, uh, I told you about last night, take his finger in the ashes and brushes his teeth. And he got all of his teeth in his late 70s. Doing pretty well after uh, workin\u2019 every day. You people are so crippled by\u2013 (angry) the old fucker settin\u2019 over there sleep now, the ole lazy fucker. Ain\u2019t done a shit ass bit of work, (unintelligible word) about the third<\/em> day, honey, you better get to work. (Pause) They all know you, but you\u2013 you there\u2013 it ain\u2019t me. That\u2019s how you got your goddamn bald head, because so many things slid over it.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Mixed laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (shouts) And it ain\u2019t a white<\/em> bald head, it\u2019s a black<\/em> bald head.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And it\u2019s setting on the right side on the end.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Up yours. (Pause) Now if they can\u2019t figure that out, you\u2019re\u2013 you\u2019re really having a hard time. And if you don\u2019t<\/em> figure it out in a nice little\u2013 n\u2013 nice<\/em> general way like this, how in the world would anybody know who I\u2019m talking about. If you don\u2019t figure it out now<\/em> on Thursday, you\u2019ll find your ass (unintelligible word) figured it out. No, no what is this, this is uh\u2013 this is Saturday. Tuesday<\/em>, by Tuesday<\/em>, you\u2019ll find it, \u2018cause when we come up tomorrow and I hear no work, which it\u2019s a half day tomorrow, because we don\u2019t take full days till we get our people. And we quit doing it anyway. Lot of people oughta quit taking some of these goddamn breaks they\u2019re taking, all miserable breaks. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. I don\u2019t even know what a break is. (unintelligible word) Some of the coordinators, leaders, they don\u2019t know\u2013 crew, they don\u2019t know what a break is. (imitates) Gotta have my break. What about people that are breaking under the pressure back there? Tell me over the radio, I may never see you, Dad, but I love you. Workin\u2019 over there, puttin\u2019 their money, and don\u2019t want to come in. Don\u2019t want<\/em> to come, till the last one\u2019s here. You think about them, and you won\u2019t complain so much.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> But as I said, the legal process of this country, we could dodge ball. They can do a lot<\/em> of things in the courts and can\u2019t be accused of showing favoritism to Jim Jones and his people<\/em>. Appeals\u2013 We can think up legal maneuvers. Lots<\/em> of things keep them off our back. But if that<\/em> didn\u2019t work for several years, hell, we\u2019ll have John to 17 and Dana to 17 by that time. You understand what I\u2019m talking about? Look how we did with the Olivers [Bruce and William]. Run their ass all around, and got \u2018em married. Shit, he didn\u2019t know he was going to marry. We figure, you gonna get married, get\u2013 get this one, get this one, (Claps hands once) that into Georgetown, we got \u2018em married. Yeah, we got some flack<\/em> in this country. You\u2019re not supposed to be able to marry anybody without the consent of their parents<\/em> wh\u2013 unless they\u2019re 18. We got them married, didn\u2019t we? Twice<\/em> we got them married.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Come after Gieg. (Claps hands once) What? We get Cliff? who\u2019s going to marry Cliff? (Claps hands) Up, up we go. Married.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> So they can\u2019t move against Cliff. Shit (stumbles over words) and it took an act of the Supreme Justice [Sir Harold Bollers] to do that. It\u2019s not all dead. Everybody going around, wiltered today. What\u2013 if it\u2019s all<\/em> dead, hell, it\u2019s been worth it.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You live with adventure. Some of you never knew what an adventure was.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. You feel it\u2019s worth it, (unintelligible name)? I\u2019m sure if she<\/em> feels it\u2019s worth it, some of the rest of you ought to. Mother had to abandon her because of white man\u2019s racism. Killed by a white man, daddy killed by whites in Ukiah, California. Her children had to lose\u2013 uh, see the uh\u2013 her husbands come home and brag about white women in her face, because that was his uh, means of status. If she<\/em> think it\u2019s worth it, and she\u2019s a young woman, some of you oughta think it\u2019s worth it out there.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Yeah (Applause)<\/p>\n

(Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Look at these babies playing and they\u2019re free. And in San Francisco, it\u2019s hard to see \u2018em smile.<\/p>\n

Voices in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (more deliberate) Hard to see them smile. Yeah, yeah, they play outside in the back of that San Francisco Temple, but they didn\u2019t have that\u2013 They was just\u2013 It wasn\u2019t in it. Acting out, throwing rocks, burying each other. Who\u2019s buried anybody here, huh? You remember how many incidents we had? How many times have we had anybody been rocked here? Been a long time since somebody been rocked here. And how many times have we had it, somebody always<\/em> hitting somebody in the eye, hitting them over the head.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All kinds of shit that tried on them. Buried one of them alive. You remember?<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Right out behind the San Francisco Temple. One<\/em> day of children in the position like this. Say, our children can\u2019t take it. Honey, it ain\u2019t the children\u2019s<\/em> having trouble. It\u2019s some of you old<\/em> fuckers is having trouble.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Yeah (Applause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> One of our teachers say I\u2013 I\u2013 we\u2013 we\u2013 our children can\u2019t stand it. Honey and you were shaking. Children, I haven\u2019t seen no ch\u2013 child going around (Pants) My God, boy, (unintelligible word) crisis in a war. Fuckers. I\u2019m telling you. Some old fucker back there, married to his wife for years, trying to get out of here any way he can get out of here. He didn\u2019t care about his wife. (imitates woman) She say, oh, my husband love me. Hell, if he loved you honey, he coulda found\u2013 if he coulda found a subway, his ass woulda forgot you.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Short laugh) Yes, yes. (pause) Can deal with it. And as I said, we got a (draws out word) lot of maneuvers. We can pull a lot of things off. Give us\u2013 Every day is another day that we have more time to plan. Say, what you mean? Right now, I don\u2019t know what I mean. I got some folks doing some plannin\u2019 right now that are not here. Give us a few more days, and they\u2019re gonna raise a lot of hell.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> All Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Raise a muchum muchum wampon muchum muchum smokum.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Smokum our enemies.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> All Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Get some Indian and nigger power and Mau Mau power, yeah (Grunts) (Tsks) We\u2013 we\u2013 (laughs)<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It\u2019s hard to fight a war if you got the shits.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I\u2019m trying stuff on me that gives you the perpetual shits. And if it gives everybody the shits like it gives me, honey, we give an army the shits. How you going to fight a war with the shits?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (shouts) Hey, and I\u2019ve got something stronger than that. Better be good. (Pause) You didn\u2019t get it, I ain\u2019t going over it twice.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (chuckles) We\u2019re fighting on all<\/em> fronts, aren\u2019t we, babies.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> (Calls out)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> But I say, it\u2019s been good to be here. Well\u2013 what\u2013 what other people\u2013 where in the hell would we have a whole government kick somebody out, and have to fight with the United States government over it? United States government warned him not to do it in the first place. And they tried to take \u2018em, they\u2013 they had them out of a hotel room, and even now<\/em> the United States can only get uh, five more days. That\u2019s what they\u2019ve got. They\u2019re supposed to have uh, endless right to increase their visa on and on. We even got the US Consul, the fucking hypocrite, that was in here, he a fucking hypocrite. Smiling ass, teethy, hypoc\u2013 I got your checks. He played hell to get the checks. I got a book<\/em> full of letters, carbon copies, that\u2019ll show you who got the checks. Heads of black leader movements and people I lean<\/em> on. And we had to practically stand<\/em> on some of their asses to get them to write. Oh, you\u2019ll write. Oh yes sir, yes sir, we\u2019ll write one right now. Here\u2019s the letter. Here\u2019s the paper. Write. Andy Silver stood over about eight of them. You come on, right now. Write. Andy saying back there, one of them good nigger Jews.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah, we\u2019ll write you. Fuck<\/em> you (stumbles over words) to let you\u2013 let you write you. Ain\u2019t nobody going to write you, they tell you, write you, we\u2013 right now<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That\u2019s<\/em> what moved those checks. It wasn\u2019t nothin\u2019 else moved those checks. That little old white silly ass son of a bitch. He didn\u2019t do anything but cart him out here. They\u2019da had all<\/em> of our checks blocked, and we got 68 of them loose. That prick didn\u2019t do anything. Fuck him. But he got\u2013 he\u2013 he didn\u2019t think we knew him his tricks, but we on to his tricks. What the old devils get together. Olivers [Howard and Beverly] trying to\u2013 tried to kill me and then tried to kill Momma [Marceline Jones]. Your momma, your good momma. But she didn\u2019t get killed either. She\u2019s out of their clutches now. She\u2019s on her way here coming around. Some<\/em> place. She isn\u2019t in the\u2013 she isn\u2019t in San Francisco.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah, all right. And she didn\u2019t want to\u2013 She wanted to stay there. And obviously I must have great love, and I don\u2019t have any affair going on here, or I wouldn\u2019t bring my wife, would I?<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (chuckles) Olivers<\/em> get together, the parents<\/em> get together, with mobsters like the Stoens. Crooked ass white prejudiced people and the Ku Klux Klan and black people, no pride get together, (claps hands once) and play<\/em> into the hands of our class enemy. And they tried all kinds of shit on us, honeys. They were delude [deluged] with phone calls, and old Stoen stayed there in the hotel, and callin\u2019 the judge, acting like they were calls from the United States, and he had others work with him. But they still lonely at night. Grace out there talkin\u2019. Say, how do you know? We got \u2018em watching them. Shanda [Oliver] watchin\u2019 their ass night and day. If anything goes wrong, Grace is going to die in the worst way.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> All right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to use Grace\u2019s jawbone of her ass to kill Tim with.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Cheers and applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> We ain\u2019t going to have to do nothing, if anything, they ain\u2019t do nothing now. Don\u2019t do anything. Nonetheless Shonda said that Grace is a lonely, sitting out there just talkin\u2019 some big old fat man. (makes blah blah noises) And Tim is running around with some old\u2013 uh, some whore that was one foot higher than him. He\u2019s running around and (stumbles over words) and they know<\/em> her. Debby knows her. Debbie Touchette<\/strong> knows her, she\u2019s a $60 a night whore<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> Woo.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That\u2019s poor old Tim. He can\u2019t even get it on with Grace, and so I guess he\u2019s going to have that\u2013 that\u2013 that whore lick it.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Stirs.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> We\u2019re watching a boat, one watching one, one watching the other. Anything goes wrong out here, we say, waterfall<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs) And honey, and the water will fall.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Voice raised throughout) And them crazy pricks. And the conspiracy<\/em> knows how crazy niggers we are.<\/a> And Stoen thinks he\u2019s winning<\/em>. He\u2019s winning with a thousand of us here<\/em> and two- or three hundred crazy niggers back home? I\u2019m talking about loyal<\/em> crazy niggers. We got a whole lot more than that<\/em>. If something happen to me, and lot of folk will remember a healing, it would be\u2013 it\u2019ll come in strange places. Stoen\u2019s fuckin\u2019 with us and tryin\u2019 to destroy us, and he thinks he\u2019s going get by with it? He thinks he\u2019s going to live in that Montgomery suite? Shit, somebody\u2019ll<\/em> get out of this jungle and get his ass.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Cheers and applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Calms) Peace. Tired<\/em> of the sons of bitches. I made that\u2013 that\u2019s one goddamn thing we\u2019ll have to\u2013 We\u2019ll have at least<\/em>. And a few of those pricks are goin\u2019 to go<\/em>. To a prayer meeting. But I say, we\u2019ve had a lot of things going for us, lot of things we can be thankful for. The law of the land says you\u2019re supposed to have\u2013 you go down to the public school. We\u2013 We said no<\/em>, and we didn\u2019t have to go. The law of the land says a doctor [Larry Schacht] couldn\u2019t practice, and he does. He did a surgery, a beautiful surgery, on Brother Johnson. You can look at that growth, you oughta all take a look at it. It oughta be put out on display. By the way, when we have a movie, and I was talking to Charlie [Touchette] the other day. It\u2019s ridiculous, when people come in here, that calf hide shoulda been up. And some of you people moved that out, and showing our works, that\u2019s the very goddamn thing people want to see<\/em>. That foreign minister would\u2019ve been very<\/em> impressed by people making\u2013 tanning their own hide, and having our growth out, (stumbles over words) but you look at that growth. And how many times you been to surgery restroom? How many times you been to a surgery<\/em>? I mean to doctor after doctor, and didn\u2019t find it. How many here have been to doctor after doctor, didn\u2019t find cancer? Sister Perkins woulda died if I\u2013 (stumbles over words) I<\/em> found it because of my intensive demand and campaign, and all the cooperation my medical staff (stumbles over words) give everyone<\/em> cancer exams, and get these new people through it quickly. \u2018Cause you say, I\u2019m all right. Yeah, Mom [Virginia] Taylor been to five doctors<\/em>, and they didn\u2019t find it.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Five fucking US doctors. The best. They don\u2019t give<\/em> a shit. Sister Perkins has been to doctors. They don\u2019t give<\/em> a shit. She\u2019s black<\/em>, beautiful, radiant, but they don\u2019t give a shit. Continental damn. You\u2019re fortunate<\/em> to be here. Got no complaints, as long as one baby happy one day\u2013 one day more for a baby. (Claps hands once) That\u2019s why I take it, one day more for a senior. One day more the senior don\u2019t have to walk down Steiner Street and wonder when someone going to mug<\/em> them, when they been beat down all their life. (Cried out) One<\/em> day, they get to eat in peace<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Cheers and applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Calms) Yeah. (Pause) I don\u2019t care about your middle class ass, or mine<\/em>. What the hell is the difference? Fuck us. It\u2019s the children and the seniors that\u2019ve given all their years. Some seniors oughta be thrown in the shit<\/em> hole, but many of them are sweet and gentle<\/em> people. Just don\u2019t say because I\u2019m a senior citizen\u2013 senior citizen, that means you\u2019re so holy<\/em>. Some<\/em> of you fuckers have fucked over everybody all your life. We<\/em> know you, but there\u2019s some beautiful, beautiful seniors<\/em> in this place. Another. Ruth Atkins. They didn\u2019t do anything\u2013 The medicine didn\u2019t do anything for her, and here she stands in health tonight. Best of surgery, cancer all through her body. Stands in health. Do you how many? And cancer disappeared in Rose Simon [Pauline Simon], cancer disappeared in Rose Peterson. Disappeared<\/em>. But why in hell\u2013<\/p>\n

End of tape <\/strong><\/p>\n

Tape originally posted\u00a0March 2017.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1,\u00a0Pt. 2). (This tape was transcribed by Georgiana Mamlakah. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.) Male: I\u2019m lying. That\u2019s why I got in […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":642,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-68782","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/68782","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=68782"}],"version-history":[{"count":7,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/68782\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":123236,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/68782\/revisions\/123236"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=68782"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}