{"id":68784,"date":"2017-03-13T14:33:32","date_gmt":"2017-03-13T21:33:32","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=68784"},"modified":"2023-06-17T17:20:46","modified_gmt":"2023-06-18T00:20:46","slug":"q969-transcript","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=68784","title":{"rendered":"Q969 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>,\u00a0Pt. 2<\/a>).<\/p>\n

(This tape was transcribed by Georgiana Mamlakah. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)<\/em><\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (tape starts in mid-sentence) \u2013by people who are coming from Union of South Africa, the dictatorship run by our government. And we\u2019re also challenged a little bit later to hear from Chileans who have suffered the most grotesque type of tortures. I suppose it\u2019s the most grotesque known to man\u2013 humanity today, again<\/em> by our CIA. They\u2019re offering reporters (unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

(Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013ending up with cancer, and given up to die, to spread through her entire body. Chemotherapy, radian\u2013 radiation surgery, and the knots like rubber balls in every part of her body, and I just spoke the word and said she would be all right. And there she stands clear of it today, and that\u2019s the beauty of it.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That\u2019s the beauty. And she\u2019s always on the top of the list of generosity. A generous socialist. And that\u2019s the key to getting health. There was no hope at all<\/em> for her. If you don\u2019t believe it, you can check into her background.<\/p>\n

(Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013to have to serve our black people, because none<\/em> of waiters there would serve them. Somebody had obviously given an order. (Pause) So how many want trees<\/em> in a land where the\u2013<\/p>\n

(Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible word) of the regime in the Union of South Africa. I hope I\u2019m not being subjective in calling it a fascist regime. From all the sensible purposes that\u2019s what it happens to be. A young man who had the courage, though a soldier, and very, very young, had the courage to stand out from the mass and the crowd and risk certain death if he goes back, come to us today to tell us of some of the atrocities<\/em> that\u2019re being conducted, and it\u2019ll be carried\u2013 that\u2019re being carried on at this very moment, because that country, Union of South Africa, is nothing more than a colony, nothing less than a colony of the US corporate elite.<\/p>\n

Voices in Congregation:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> These are very serious times. We are shaken to the roots at Peoples Temple with the awareness that two<\/em> weeks ago, a beautiful black woman came here, the mayor of Mayersville, Mississippi, who traveled to China with Shirley MacLaine, Unita [Blackwell] Wright. Outside of our building, one of our good members \u2013 one of our good white field niggers, \u2018cause that\u2019s what we call ourselves<\/a> \u2013 she happened to be alert enough to see a person outside \u2013 between our building, with a tape recorder. She and another good black sister pursued<\/em> the person into a car and got their license number, and through [Tim Stoen] the Assistant District Attorney that\u2019s a member of our church\u2013<\/p>\n

You\u2019ll hear a constant dialing, by the way, our telephones pick up everything that\u2019s on our microphone, if you pick up our phones or any of our extension phones or our senior citizen homes, you can pick up the phone and hear Peoples Temple on them. Str\u2013 It\u2019s a very strange situation, isn\u2019t it? I find that most interesting. If you listen very quietly, if you\u2019re on the telephone, you can hear all of our service right on the telephone.<\/p>\n

Anyway, in pursuing through the U-rental agency, we found out that this\u2013 these gentlemen, one of them was a high ranking officer in the Air Force [Leon Joly] and another in the Navy, at Kessler Air Force Base in Biloxi, Mississippi [Thomas Dawsey], directly responsible to Senator [John] Stennis, chief advisor to the CIA and one of the main fascists on the Armed Services Committee. And one woman, one black woman speaking of her experiences in China<\/em>, not<\/em> emulating China, merely bur\u2013 bringing out certain things that impressed her and speaking more about a socialist solution for America. And that one woman caused two high-ranking people to get temporary duty status and be sent from S\u2013 by Senator Stennis to San Francisco, California to do whatever they had in mind with one humble black woman. America is not in a very good<\/em> state of affairs.<\/p>\n

Last night, Yvonne Golden called me and she says \u2013 I\u2019m so glad she\u2019s here \u2013 she said they\u2019re going to take my job, not that she would care, if her duty was done, \u2018cause she\u2019s always been brave enough to do what she had to do, and they have told her because she<\/em> supported someone, the communist worker, Mr. Miller, who I <\/em>voted for and this entire church<\/em> voted for, for the school<\/em> board because she\u2013 what she does\u2013 We believe in Mrs. Golden, and I said, \u201cOh, no<\/em>, they won\u2019t fire you. I don\u2019t think they want all of Peoples Temple down in the school<\/em> board.\u201d<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/strong>: Cheers and applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Peace. Peace. Peace. They had the nerve to say to her, the most progressive school in this entire district, 100 and some of the students\u2013 high school students are members of our church, and some bigot, some honkey bigot out on the 70 hundred block of Geary said that the children<\/em> there were not capable<\/em> of being exposed<\/em> to a Bakke rally, a rally that was necessary\u2013 if anything was necessary to freedom in America life, to protest the fact that now it will be almost impossible, even in The N\u2013 Los Angeles Times<\/em> said, that our college graduate schools will be lily white<\/em> by next year, because of the Bakke decision. And they were going to take her job<\/em> because her<\/em> students were being exposed<\/em> to civil rights. I called Doctor Goosby [phonetic] and I called Doc\u2013 Doctor [Carlton] Goodlett, and I said now let me tell you, I\u2019m mad. And I said, I don\u2019t want this woman\u2019s job, but they better not even try<\/em> to take her job. Doctor Goosby had\u2013 Goosby assured me, and so did Doctor Goodlett, that it will not happen, \u2018cause I said, you don\u2019t want that kind of combustion, because I\u2019ll raise (draws out word) old Ned, all kinds of hell if they do.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Cheers and applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Voice rises throughout) We must stand up. We must stand up for people like that. There are too few Yvonne Goldens. There are too few in our country today. Even in this city of San Francisco we notice the conspiracy of (unintelligible word) the so-called counter revolutionary front that killed Doctor Letelier\u2013 Orlando Letelier, the Defense Minister of Chile, and brought down the Cuban airlines with 73 youngsters, 11 medical students in our uh, agricultural mission that perished, not our own members of our church, but Guyanese, precious<\/em> Guyanese young people that were killed<\/em>, and now they\u2019re finding that 18 people that\u2019ve been arrested, their organization, their counter-revolutionary clique<\/em> was formed here in June<\/em> in San Francisco. In San Francisco, because Art Rosenbaum wan\u2013 Rosenbaum want\u2013 sent so many tickets\u2013 or courtesy tickets to our people, as I said, right in this<\/em> city just a few days ago. And naturally we sent our black members because we are all one. In this<\/em> city, our black people at that affair\u2013 I was glad I w\u2013 wasn\u2019t there, or you\u2019da found me in jail today, \u2018cause I\u2019ve been a pacifist all my life, but I\u2019m having a hard time with it anymore. They ignored<\/em> all of our black people entirely, would not serve them here<\/em>, the great Progress,<\/em> the great newspaper that\u2019s fastly becoming a daily in this town, black people were not served, and as I understand, Professor [Richard] Tropp, a Jewish member had to get up and serve our black people, finest black people that you can find in this entire United States were there, but they were ignored<\/em> by the entire affair. It\u2019s time that we forget our petty differences, and I hear so many things about I\u2019m this kind of a socialist or I\u2019m a Maoist Socialist or I\u2019m a USSR Socialist or I\u2019m a Socialist Worker or I\u2019m a People Socialist or I\u2019m a Trotskyite socialist. I\u2019m for anybody whose rights<\/em> are being taken away from them.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Cheers.<\/p>\n

Long pause<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (calms) Peace. And so we pledge to this young man the same kind of strength. We\u2019re much more observant today, if anyone is watching you, and we do have more connections than the usual<\/em> group. I imagine we\u2019re quite an enigma<\/em>. One congressperson said to me on Tuesday, he said they don\u2019t know what the hell to do with Peoples Temple, they have never seen several thousand church people that are all radical socialist.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Stirs, then applause<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Peace. Peace. (Pause) Peace. So without further ado, first of our guests today, Bill Anderson. He\u2019s on a tour around the country sponsored primarily by Amnesty International and the American Friends Service Committee. He was born in Cape Town, South Africa, grew up there and attended the University of Cape Town from which he was drafted into the army. While in the military, Bill was a part of the illegal invasion force that occupied Angola during the last days of the revolution there. And also was stationed in Nyum\u2013 Na\u2013 Namibia, is it? Namibia? South West what? Nambia. (stumbles over words) The chap said I\u2019ll\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2013 What do we care about that, he can tell us about it. We\u2013 We admit we don\u2019t know what we ought to know about Africa so we\u2019ll fin\u2013 finally get informed. It\u2019s this area just above the Union of South Africa that has been taken over and occupied by the Union of South Africa between there and Angola, and which was used as a base by our<\/em> government and our CIA and the colony, the Union of South Africa, to try to overthrow the people\u2019s government of Angola. But anyway, while this young man was on duty in Angola, he witnessed many<\/em> atrocities and tortures. I\u2019m sure he can tell us about it. After his first tour of duty \u2013 the South African army splits up a person\u2019s time in the service \u2013 Bill went to London. And while in London, he heard some people speaking in defense of South Africa. He could not take it, and he started speaking out and telling the truth and has been so at it\u2013 so ever since. Twenty-one years of age, Bill was one of the first to break the story regarding the South African army\u2019s atrocities and testified to the entire United Nations against South Africa within the last two months. He is a supporter of the Marxist SWAPO Liberation Army, in this uh, uh, Na\u2013 Na\u2013 Namibia, hmm? Namibia, South West African People\u2019s Organization, and an outspoken opponent to the racist apartheid South African government. I don\u2019t know whether you can possibly know how it feels to be 21 and uprooted from your country, and is he safe in America. I wish we could keep such precious young people here as we wanted to keep Orlando before he went back to Washington and was killed on our Embassy Square. But we give the CIA notice. Don\u2019t mess with these people, don\u2019t mess with anybody else that comes through our ranks, because you\u2019ll have to kill us all.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Sustained shouts and applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Peace. Peace. Peace. Peace. Peace. (Pause) If he goes back\u2013 if he goes back to the corrupt fascist regime of the Union of South Africa, he faces certain death. I think we should give a good hand for a 21-year-old that has that kind of guts, (unintelligible word).<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Anderson:<\/strong> I was conscripted into the South African army in\u2013 in (clears throat) July of last year. I had five months training in Grahamstown in South Africa and then in November last year was sent up into Southern Angola. I spent three months uh, in the south of Angola. We weren\u2019t involved in\u2013 in\u2013 in the main heat of the war that was then taking place uh, further north. I then spent two months on a west\u2013 far western most camp in the Namibian-Angolan border. And then during May and June this year, I was involved in what is called Operation Cobra and I\u2019d\u2013 I\u2019d like to say a few words (clears throat) about my experiences during this time. (Clears throat) Namibia uh, or as it is known uh, by\u2013 (clears throat) by the South African government, So\u2013 South West Africa, lies between uh, (clears throat) uh, South Africa on the west coast of Africa and\u2013 and between Angola above it. The people of Namibia have a long history of a peaceful struggle to try and get some freedom for themselves, some say in their own government. It was in 1966 that the South West African People\u2019s Organization decided that the only way that they were going to free themselves was to fight for it. And so they have been fighting a guerilla war in Northern Namibia since 1966.<\/p>\n

The operation I was involved in moved into a fairly small area. It involved five battalions \u2013 that\u2019s about 4,000 men \u2013 uh, and our orders were to clear the area completely of guerilla activity. For the first four weeks, (clears throat) each battalion worked on its own, sending out its own patrols and at that stage, bringing in anyone<\/em> that was vaguely suspect. The first two prisoners brought into our camp were suspects (unintelligible word) that they were walking in the same direction in which guerillas were believed to be moving. I saw these men being brought into camp, being beaten with fists, with rifles, their bodies burned with cigarettes, their mouths filled with sand, generally very roughly treated by the ordinary South African troops whose average age is about 18 or 19. And this done in front of, and with the encouragement of, senior Army officers. The men were then taken into an interrogation tent and tortured<\/em>, using electric shock treatment from a field telephone, and for the two months of May and June this year, I went to bed every single night with the screams of these men being tortured. (Clears throat) After the first four weeks in the operation, I think the authorities realized they weren\u2019t getting anywhere with<\/em>\u2013 with<\/em> the operation, so (clears throat) they brought the five battalions together and involved them in a very systematic sweep of a very small area. And at this stage, orders were given that every single male adult, whether suspect or not, was to be brought in uh, for interrogation and torture. And when I say adults, some of those brought into our camp were as young as about 13. The other standing order was that if anyone ran away at any stage, they were to be shot, and you shot to kill.<\/p>\n

So the situation for the people that live there, and then a (unintelligible word) of people that live in this area, they have the largest population group in Namibia, and most of them are subsistence farmers. If any of them happen to be working their land and an army patrol approaches, they have two choices: either to stand their ground and then be taken in and tortured, or to run away and be shot. And this is the way the military is dealing with the people of\u2013 (clears throat) of\u2013 of Namibia who they claim they are defending. I am talking about an operation involving 4,000 troops, there are at least 45,000 troops in Namibia today.<\/p>\n

I could go on for hours talking about the various atrocities being carried out. One man for instance was handcuffed, his arms hooked over a branch of a tree, with his feet dangling about two foot off the ground, and a fire was lit under him. In the afternoons an interrogation (clears throat) used to take place where they would duck men\u2019s heads into buckets of water and hold them under until their bodies went limp, and then pull them out, and then beat them until they revived. There was no intention to in sub\u2013 by any subtle means to get any information out of people. It was a direct bullying.<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t believe that the South African people think that black people deserve any subtle treatment. Uh\u2013 They looked upon them as savages. They couldn\u2019t even accept when I spoke to various people that South Africa\u2019s minority ruled. Uh, (clears throat) this is uh, ju\u2013 uh, something they just cannot understand, that black people\u2013 that blacks are people. Uh, they are stand\u2013 standing there with the old myth\u2013 the myth that has been very successfully built up by the South African government, that it is a fact for, I\u2019d say, 99 percent of white South Africans that the majority rule means chaos, communism, and every white having their throat slit. They are fighting against this every single day, and\u2013 and any man standing up for his freedom is a threat to them. (clears throat) From\u2013 From that point of view, I think it is pretty obvious that the South African government is not<\/em> of its own free will going to give away an\u2013 (clears throat) an inch of its power or its land and its domination, and the only way that change is going to come in South Africa is through an armed struggle. And I believe that change is coming very<\/em> soon.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Anderson:<\/strong> I would like to (clears throat) say a bit about my own reactions to what has been going on in South Africa since June the sixteenth, but before I do that, I would like to trace very briefly the kind of life one (clears throat) can expect being black to have growing up in South Africa in an urban area. The type of life that (clears throat) the thou\u2013 1,227 black students who were gunned down by the police in the last couple of months, the type of life that they would have been expected to live. Even before a child is born in South Africa, it is more than likely that his parents will not be living together. (clears throat) His mother will work as a servant in some (Clears throat) wealthy white home and live in the backyard of her employer\u2019s house. Her husband will live in segregated barracks either on a mine or in a township closest to the industry in which he works. They will not be allowed to live together. If they are lucky, they will see each other once a week. When the child is born, there will be no money (clears throat) for any decent medical care. As it is, there are not enough uh, medical staff to look after the black people. There is only one doctor for every 400,000 blacks in South Africa.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Stirs.<\/p>\n

Anderson:<\/strong> Because there is no money, (clears throat) they will not be able to feed the child properly, and every other black child in South Africa dies before the age of 5 of malnutrition. One out of every two children in South Africa die before the age of 5. The parents will bend over backwards to try and send their child to school, (clears throat) and if they do manage to get that money together, they will send their child to a\u2013 an overpopulated (clears throat) school where they have not the ability to get a decent education. I think I\u2013 I would just point out here that whites get a free<\/em> education in South Africa, whereas blacks have to pay<\/em> for their education. (Pause) At school, a child will be taught under an educational system that, by order of the Bantu Education Act, is very much inferior to the education the whites get, and it\u2019s an education that continually<\/em> stresses that blacks must realize that they must not expect any\u2013 any equal opportunities in South Africa, that they have a very special role to play in that country.<\/p>\n

And I think, when we are talking about that special role, we have to look at the role that the Dutch Reformed Church plays in South Africa. Because the Afrikaner church has legitimized everything that the South African government is doing and it uh, continually st\u2013 stresses uh, (clears throat) this master-servant relationship that they have interpreted out of the Bible. At the same time, the whole communist threat is uh, blown into such an incredible paranoia. (clears throat) While I was up uh, in Angola on Christmas Day, we were preached a sermon by one of these ministers. He was talking about peace on earth, but here we were fighting. And he explained that, as if we were fighting the communists, and communists don\u2019t believe in God, and therefore we were fighting a religious war. I think this is (clears throat) a very imp\u2013 im\u2013 important aspect of the way South Africa stands today, that the South African government is not only interested in the politics and economy of the country they are fighting for their cultural identity, uh, and they\u2019ll be very backed\u2013 uh, very strongly backed up by this religion.<\/p>\n

To get back to it: a black child\u2019s schooling in South Africa, by the age of 13, his parents will more than likely not have any (clears throat) money left to send\u2013 uh, to keep him in school. In fact, only 12 percent of those children starting in school get anywhere near a secondary school. So at the age of 13, you will go out and join the ranks of the other four million unemployed blacks in South Africa. At the same time, there are 40,000 white jobs that are empty, that is, jobs that involve a skill that blacks are not allowed to take. Blacks are starved from being educated by given skills. They are not allowed to hold skilled jobs, and they are only there for their cheap manual labor.<\/p>\n

If a child disagrees with anything that is going on, (clears throat) if he\u2019s only uh\u2013 involved in something like a peaceful protest that so many of them were involved in, in Soweto (clears throat) and the other townships around South Africa uh, during the last couple of months, he can be expected to be gunned down with\u2013 with\u2013 without giving uh, uh, even said a word. The police just move in and gun these people down. If he wants to organize anything, if he tries to really fight for his freedom, he can be held under any number of\u2013 of acts, the latest being Internal Security Act, under which just a member of the police force \u2013 not even a magistrate \u2013 a member of the security police, if he regards a person to be a threat to the security of the state, (clears throat) a security policeman can detain a person first for a year, and that year can be renewed for as long as the authorities like. The person will be detained in soli\u2013 solitary confinement without ever being brought to trial, without being allowed to see a lawyer, a magistrate, no one. This is (clears throat) the type of uh, conditions that people have to fight for their freedom in\u2013 in South Africa.<\/p>\n

To get to what exactly is happening in South Africa at the moment, I\u2019d like to mention uh, a clipping of a\u2013 of a television uh, newsreel that a\u2013 a London television were\u2013 a crew were able to make uh, when they sneaked into Soweto. They interviewed a little kid, a black kid about 13 years old who was standing with a stone in his hand, and across the road there were a row of policemen, and the interviewer said, don\u2019t you think you\u2019re wasting your time? Here are all these guns against you, and you only got a stone in your hand. And as the little kid said, they can shoot me, that doesn\u2019t matter, because we are right and we are going to win. And this is the type of feeling you have in South Africa at the moment. The people of South Africa have a long history of a peaceful st\u2013 struggle to try and free themselves, and every single time they have been put down and pushed back into their very oppressed role. I think we have a stance by the people of South Africa now who it is very clear that they are not going to be push back again. They know exactly where they are now, exactly where they are going, and nothing<\/em> is going to push them down again.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Anderson:<\/strong> From this angle, I think it is very clear that when you look at South Africa today, we only have two roads left on which we can go. We can either support [Johannes] Vorster and his fascist regime, or we can totally<\/em> support the liberation struggle. In that respect, I\u2019d like to mention a\u2013 a\u2013 a little bit about my views in what Mr. [Henry] Kissinger is doing in South Africa, and what the United States, Britain, France, and the other Western powers are doing in South Africa. I think at this stage I must make it very<\/em> clear, that the only reason that Vorster is in power, that the only reason the racists can stay where they are, is because the economy of South Africa is propped up by the Western imperialist powers.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Cheers and applause.<\/p>\n

Anderson:<\/strong> When we\u2019re dealing with Mr. Kissinger, we are dealing with a person who three years ago made a statement regarding the people of Chile, and he said, if the people of Chile decide for themselves that they want a communist state, that is an irresponsible action, and the people of the United States have every reason to step in and stop that. That is the type of person we are dealing with, that I think is the State Department line uh, where they are, (clears throat) if they can possibly help it, not going to lose their contacts and their (clears throat) ties with South Africa, and exactly how they are bolstering up the South African government and pulling the strings and dictating to the people exactly what is going on. In the last year or so, the South African economy has<\/em> had a couple of blows to it. They\u2019ve been doubling their defense budget every single year, and with the drop in the price of gold \u2013 and they\u2019ve lost a lot of foreign currency \u2013 so what you find happening is that over the past couple of years, United States banks have been involved in over two billion dollars worth of short term loans to the South African government, and only in the last couple of weeks again, we see Chase Manhattan, First National City, Manufacturers Hanover Trust, and Morgan Guaranty, and (clears throat) a number of other European American banks involved in somewhere between 110 and 300 million dollar loans uh, to uh, South Africa direct\u2013 directly to the South African government, and I think it can be argued that this money is going directly to the South African Defense Force.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Stirs.<\/p>\n

Anderson:<\/strong> When you realize that ov\u2013 over 300 of the major United States corporations are in South Africa, you must realize that one of the main reasons that they are there is that South Africa is the only place in the world where they come out with between 18 and 20 percent profits. And the only reason they come out with those profits is because they are exploiting the cheap labor of the South African system. It is in their interest to keep the racist uh, regime in power, because only in that way will they make these profits. And it is only with these profits that they bring back to South Afri\u2013 to\u2013 to the United States, uh, plus the tax credits that the\u2013 that the taxpayers of this country pay<\/em> to them, that they can then further exploit the people of their own country.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Anderson:<\/strong> When Kissinger met South African Prime Minister Vorster in Zurich in September this year, a story leaked out that up till this time has not been denied by any United States authorities, a story to the effect that if the South African troops were to withdraw from Namibia, and a moderate black rule was set up, then the United States would arm and train a black Namibian Army. In the June issue of Mili\u2013 The Military Review<\/em> uh, there is an article talking about the possibility of the United States sitting up a naval base in the so-called independent state of the Transkei. To\u2013 to me these are two very ominous facts. If we look back to how the United States first got involved in Vietnam by sending in military advisors, I think the United States is on a course at the moment, where they are going to get themselves deeply<\/em> involved in a very horrible (clears throat) state of affairs as regarding southern Africa. I think southern Africa is<\/em> going to become a crisis point in<\/em> the world in the next five years. I think it is a time now that people should be looking at this and not wait to the crunch really comes, because something can<\/em> be done now.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Anderson:<\/strong> When we look at\u2013 at the struggle that is going on in South Africa, we must see that the s\u2013 that struggle under its (clears throat) manifesto, the freedom charter drawn up in 1955 by the African National Congress, made it very clear what the people are fighting for. They were fighting for a new state where there will be equal opportunity and freedom for all, (Clears throat) a state where anyone (Clears throat) regardless of his color or his creed, will, (clears throat) if he want\u2013 if\u2013 if he is prepared to participate constructively in a new state, will have freedom and equality in that country. I think it is very clear that the liberation struggle is fighting the system and not the people.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Right. (Applause)<\/p>\n

Anderson:<\/strong> As I said, the liberation struggle is fighting for freedom in South Africa, and I\u2019d like to spend (Clears throat) a couple of moments talking about what freedom for the southern African people means. When in their second presidential debate, Mr. [Jimmy] Carter and Mr. [Gerald] Ford stood up and talked in lofty terms about freedom for the people in South Africa, and Mr. Ford went on with what I think is a fascist statement, of saying that he regarded himself (clears throat) as having responsibilities as being a leader of the free world, I think he must realize that this view of freedom that has been sold<\/em> to the United States is totally<\/em> out of tune where the people of South Africa are now. Because freedom for the people of South Africa means a freedom to decide who they want to talk to, a freedom to decide whom they want to deal with, and a freedom to decide what society they will form, and what will take place in South Africa. It has got nothing<\/em> to do with anyone in any uh, Western power trying to manipulate the scenes, trying for their own greed to continue to pull the strings in South Africa. The people of South Africa are very clear what they want. They\u2019re going to get it soon, and that freedom will very soon be theirs. Thank you.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Sustained applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I could not help but think uh, that that might be one of our sons. I don\u2019t think you have any idea what\u2019s riding on his shoulders. I don\u2019t think some of the young people in this church have any idea what kind of courage it takes for him to do what he\u2019s doing.<\/p>\n

Voices in Congregation:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> His life is not very safe, to say the least. (Pause) Leaves me speechless. You can tell he speaks from the heart. There are various movements today that would distract us trying to make us think that no one but someone that\u2019s black or Indian as our background can understand our problem. But to me he spoke as well as any field nigger could speak.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible aside) (back to mike) We do not uh\u2013 As soon as they\u2013 they bring the money for him to carry on his program as he<\/em> sees fit. We do not put\u2013 put any pressure upon you to stay. Doctor [Albert] Kahn is still waiting. The Chilean refugees\u2013\u00a0He\u2019s more\u2013 They\u2019re more than welcome to stay. We love having you and we pledge our support to you. We pledge our support to you, son.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> So we\u2019re waiting [for] the Chilean refugees, and while we\u2019re doing so, would you sing something, but don\u2019t sing anything like \u201cFill My Cup,\u201d (strained voice) because nobody fills our goddamn cup. We<\/em> have to do the filling.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I don\u2019t like any songs that emphasize (voice rises) fill<\/em> my cup. Fill<\/em> me. There\u2019s nothing out there to fill me. (cries out) We are the people. God is in us. Socialism\u2019s in us.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Voice still raised) And what he said, what he said about the church in South Africa, is no different than the church in America.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Voice still raised) The same situation. Yesterday at the opening of Soul Park, there was only Peoples Temple there, and I don\u2019t want the world to be confused, or him. I want to go down and see him before he leaves. The pleasure\u2013 If anyone bothers him, I\u2019m going to come at any point where he may be geographically, but I want this to be said, (cries out) we are not<\/em> like other churches. I hate<\/em> the name of church, because it doesn\u2019t even fit. We are the only group there. There [is] only one minister I have any respect for \u2013 and he can\u2019t bring one of his people when he comes, they won\u2019t follow him \u2013 that\u2019s Cecil Williams. We were the only<\/em> people at the celebration of Soul Park yesterday, we\u2019re the only<\/em> people at Bakke demonstration, we\u2019re the only<\/em> people to be there Tuesday for William Farr as they send him back to jail.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Cheers and applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Peace. (in full throat) Religion is the opiate of the people. I am not<\/em> religious. I hate<\/em> religion, and we\u2019ll never have freedom till the damn<\/em> thing is done away with.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Cheers and applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Voice moderates) Sing a solo or something, sing something, but get the words uh, \u201cLet Freedom\u2019s Light Shine on Your,\u201d or something. Or \u201cUnited Forever in Friendship and Labor,\u201d but for God sakes, no more anything<\/em> with religious tones today.<\/p>\n

(Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Long pause, followed by organ playing<\/p>\n

(Tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013waiting for a few of the guests, so I\u2019d like for just a few minutes, uh, three or four minutes or five minutes, if Yvonne Golden who we feel at least we had a victory by maintaining her job, which is maintaining a voice of liberty second to none in this town. She\u2019s a fighter. We\u2019re always happy to have Yvonne Golden, the principal of Opportunity High Number II high school, where one hundred of our own youngsters in Peoples Temple attend high school. We\u2019re so happy to have her. Say a few (stumbles over words) remarks, will you, Yvonne, we\u2019re so happy to have you.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Golden:<\/strong> Reverend Jones, Mrs. [Marceline] Jones, and this lovely<\/em> congregation. Every time I come before you or every time I\u2019ve been here, I\u2019ve always wanted to cry. I come in and I get tears, I hear Mr. Bill Anderson, the young man from South Africa make the remarks, and that\u2019s a comfort that I have, that there are those people who are just as dedicated and just as committed as I am. They\u2019re just as committed to speaking out against all<\/em> oppressive forces, that we will not<\/em> sit silently by and let brutality and inhumanness, poverty, illness, and what have you take over a people<\/em> in order for a few wealthy people to reap the benefits.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Golden:<\/strong> Thank you. (Pause) When I look to my left and see these beautiful people from Chile, I want to say to you, welcome, brothers and sisters. Welcome.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Golden:<\/strong> (Speaks quietly off mike, then back) Just quickly. I don\u2019t want you to think too much, because I know Jim, and I know what Jim will do, and I don\u2019t want you to worry too much about me, \u2018cause I\u2019m just a soldier in this army for the liberation\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (off mike) Our army.<\/p>\n

Golden:<\/strong> \u2013and freedom \u2013 our army, Jim has said \u2013 our<\/em> army for liberation and freedom of mankind.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Golden:<\/strong> I did receive a letter that was directed to the superintendent of schools protesting my appearance along with you and your children at a protest meeting of the Bakke decision. It also talked about the\u2013 the uh, distribution of communist literature at that rally, and it talked about my<\/em> support of a candidate for the Board of Education who is a Communist Labor party member, but the horrible<\/em> thing about that letter and the thing that hit me most, it talked about my children and your children at Opportunity II. It said that those children were least<\/em> likely to have the ability to disseminate information and to make judgment.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (off mike) That\u2019s what it said.<\/p>\n

Golden:<\/strong> And it said that the children of Opportunity II were not from a stable family background, from which they were able to (unintelligible word) any kind of information ,and I\u2019m mad. I\u2019m mad<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Golden:<\/strong> I am angry. Those children mean everything in the world to me, and that job is secondary. It means everything in the world to me that those children aren\u2019t labeled, they aren\u2019t categorized, and they aren\u2019t taken for granted that they are retarded, that they are neglected. Those\u2013 those\u2013 my<\/em> students, your\u2013 your\u2013 your<\/em> children are exciting<\/em>. They are curious<\/em>. They are brilliant<\/em>. And they are loving<\/em>. And for me, that\u2019s the most important<\/em> thing in the world.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Golden:<\/strong> And on Tuesday, the Board of Education will meet in executive session.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (off mike) And you won\u2019t be fired.<\/p>\n

Golden:<\/strong> (laughs) Thank you, darling. Thank you, darling. (laughs)<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Golden:<\/strong> They will discuss me, but I want to say to them, that I\u2019m tired of this harassment.<\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong> All right. All right. Go on.<\/p>\n

Golden:<\/strong> And I want it to cease and desist, and I want to say to you, that I love you, and I received several letters from the people in San Francisco saying that they have read about what you are doing and what we did in terms of the Bakke decision. I have the letters at school. Anybody may see them. And I love you, and I want you to continue what you\u2019re doing, because what you\u2019re doing is right<\/em>. And we love all<\/em> of you, and we love Jim Jones. Thank you very much.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Before I introduce Doctor Kahn, there\u2019s something that one of our youngsters would like to do. I think one of our youngsters is going to introduce uh, a number to the\u2013 our Chilean brothers and sisters uh, in Spanish at this moment. By the way the young man from South Africa who has a death threat on his life and has received many already, I didn\u2019t go into that. He didn\u2019t want to talk too much about his own suffering, but he left the church. He said he had never thought there was anything worthy about religion or the church. I have never seen or felt anything like this, he told the group down there. Tim Carter\u2019s written it up. I never thought anything like it in my life. He kept saying, this is incredible, incredible. He said he would be in touch, and where he\u2013 uh, here he goes to Nebraska, and there\u2019ve been all kinds of threats on his life, all kinds of things done to him, and they promise if they get him back to the Union of South Africa, he will be killed and uh, charged uh, with high treason and he\u2019d be summarily executed. He left with tears in his eyes, and he said, there is no way he could describe how much he was touched, and I know we<\/em> felt even more so about him.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Joan [Pursley]. Joan, dear.<\/p>\n

Pursley:<\/strong> (Speaks Spanish)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And how old is she, for the (unintelligible word) in English. I speak Portuguese, and I think you said\u2013 Who did you say? Dos, tres, uh, uh, three?<\/p>\n

Pursley:<\/strong> Si. Tres anos. Three.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Three. And she\u2019s going to sing and gonna\u2013 in Spanish. Now that\u2013 She\u2019s not from\u2013 She\u2019s never been in any place where Spanish is, she\u2019s just\u2013 she\u2019s one of our children that was adopted here by one of our families and grew up in San Francisco.<\/p>\n

Organ plays<\/p>\n

Pursley:<\/strong> (Sings “We Shall Overcome” in Spanish )<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs)<\/p>\n

Pursley, Jones and congregation sing \u201cWe Shall Overcome\u201d.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Before I introduce Doctor Kahn, who needs no introduction and who we love dearly, let us sing the theme<\/em> song of our hearts. \u201cUnited Forever in Friendship and Labor.\u201d<\/p>\n

Jones and congregation sing \u201cUnited Forever in Friendship and Labor\u201d, the national anthem of the Soviet Union, with modified lyrics:<\/p>\n

United forever in friendship and labor,<\/p>\n

Our mighty people shall ever endure.<\/p>\n

The great socialist union shall live through the ages.<\/p>\n

Our dream of the people their fortress secure.<\/p>\n

Long live the Soviet motherland,<\/p>\n

Was built by the people’s mighty hand.<\/p>\n

Long live her people, united and free.<\/p>\n

Long live this socialist\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Sing it with your neighbor with a kiss, an embrace. Love is what we need.<\/p>\n

Organ Plays<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013 (unintelligible fragment) He [Albert Kahn<\/a>] is here with his lovely wife and his dedicated son Steven who will be\u2013 Out of enlightened self-interest, we\u2019re so happy we will be rendering more and more service to us in this area of San Francisco. Doctor Kahn has an international reputation for books\u2013 he has an international reputation for books exposing this\u2013 the\u2013 the diplomacy, the intrigue, and the plotting that goes on by the military juggernaut, the industrial complex here that rules the monopoly, and as he said earlier today, if it was not for this last bastion of capital and fascism, socialism would move across the entire w\u2013 world like a mighty wave. His books have been translated into scores<\/em> of languages, such books as Sabotage: The Secret War Against America, The Plot against the Peace, High Treason: The Plot against the People<\/em>, and I could go on and on. Books have been bestsellers, widely acclaimed. He gives us deep insight into government and society. His son Steven is doing very important work in the parks and recreation department trying to help poor children in the cities get jobs and training. We\u2019re so happy to know that he\u2019s in our area, and we wish to pledge our full support to him, and of course to Doctor Kahn and his good wife. An attack on them is always an attack on us. Doctor Kahn.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Brothers and sisters. (Pause) I was<\/em> going to apologize for the fact that I had taken off my coat<\/em> and I was hot, but then I realized that when I speak here, I don\u2019t need to apologize for anything.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> The fact that we are<\/em> here, that I am privileged to be<\/em> here with our brothers from Chile. I had been intending to say \u201cbrothers and sisters,\u201d but the entire group that was coming was unable to get here, but half are here and they fully represent all. The fact that I am here with them\u2013 How it came about. I think something must be said before I speak of other things. I was in Sonoma when I met our brothers and sisters from Chile who were being received there as guests and given some aid, and naturally I wanted to participate in any way I<\/em> could. And by sheer coincidence, it happened that that day within\u2013 almost within the hour, I spoke with one of Brother Jim Jones\u2019 aides and mentioned what I was doing that afternoon. Within\u2013 within half an hour, there was a call\u2013 a telephone call, back to me coming from Brother Jones, and inviting all our comrades and friends, our brothers and sisters, to come here, to be welcomed here. I thought that was so typical of a man and so typical of everything that is being done here in your movement. And you can understand\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And I must say this. It was two weeks ago that that conversation occurred. Ordinarily to arrange something like this<\/em> would take two months<\/em> with any organization, but I must tell you, we are two weeks late<\/em>, because Brother Jones said, come tonight<\/em>. That was the night two\u2013 two\u2013 two weeks ago that he wanted us to be here. But we couldn\u2019t be here that night. (Pause) I want to say a word. (Pause) I\u2019ve spoken here before. I don\u2019t always\u2013 I don\u2019t like to speak about myself.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> We do like to hear.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> Well, well\u2013 I\u2013 (unintelligible word) I only\u2013 I only\u2013 I only know how to talk about things, you know, that I\u2019ve experienced and lived through.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Sure.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> I may have told you, when I spoke before, that my\u2013 my education did not take place in college. My education began after I got out of college. And when I got out of college, I met the first working people in my life, and I met the first poor<\/em> people that I have known in my life, and my education began with them and has continued from that time on. Only now there is no separation between us. Then I was not yet one of them. Now I am proud enough and old enough to be able to feel that I can say, I am one of them. And my education began in two ways. This was forty years ago. It was the time of the Spanish Civil War. It was when Fascism was about to come into power in Spain, and the popularly-elected government of Spain was fighting for its life against an uprising which was staged by Generalissimo [Francisco] Franco and a group of his officers, and which was aided by Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, and also by France indirectly, and also by England, because they would not give supplies to the government that was fighting for its life against the Fascists. I got involved in this struggle. This was part of the beginning of my education, and it was then that I learned the meaning of Fascism.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> And from that time on, I knew the direction in which I had to go. There was only one direction in which to go, if I wanted to have any self-respect, if you wanted to look upon yourself as a man, to feel that you were living with dignity\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Off mike) Yes. Yes.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> \u2013you had to be with the people. You had to be against fascism. You had to be against those who would destroy peace and happiness on earth.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> I learned then, brothers and sisters, I learned who were my friends and I learned who were my enemies. I am not so gentle a man as to be able to say I have no enemies, and I am not<\/em> the sort of man who believes in saying, if a man hits me on one cheek, I should turn the other.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Off mike) Hell no.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Laughter, then applause.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> I do not believe that you can love good without hating evil.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Off mike) (Claps) Absolutely. Absolutely.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Kahn:<\/strong> I do not believe that you can\u2013<\/p>\n

Tape Ends<\/strong><\/p>\n

Tape originally posted\u00a0March 2017<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1,\u00a0Pt. 2). (This tape was transcribed by Georgiana Mamlakah. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.) Jones: (tape starts in mid-sentence) \u2013by people who […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":647,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-68784","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/68784","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=68784"}],"version-history":[{"count":9,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/68784\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":123170,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/68784\/revisions\/123170"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=68784"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}