{"id":77970,"date":"2018-02-05T11:19:28","date_gmt":"2018-02-05T19:19:28","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=77970"},"modified":"2025-08-10T21:17:48","modified_gmt":"2025-08-11T04:17:48","slug":"q573-transcript","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=77970","title":{"rendered":"Q573 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>,\u00a0Pt. 2<\/a>).<\/p>\n

[Editorial note: Both sides of this tape have too many unidentified male voices to keep track of. Each change of voice is noted, but all unidentified males are labelled merely as \u201cMale:\u201d]<\/em><\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (begins in midsentence) \u2013about this country is, (unintelligible word), we\u2019re livin\u2019 in a God damned jungle where you can go<\/em> 5,000 miles too. If you want to get away from the Nati\u2013 National Youth Corps, or the CIA, or whatever the hell else you want to get away from, you can get out there, \u2018cause pythons\u2013 you can predict the python, or the jumpin\u2019 tin-tin, whatever you call that damned spider, (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Male: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You know how far he jumps.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Ting tang.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Ting tang.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> They don\u2019t jump, unless you provoke ’em, anyway.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Ah, he was damned-well provoked. You could\u2013 He was gettin\u2019\u2013<\/p>\n

Several people:<\/strong> Laughter<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He wasn\u2019t lookin\u2019 at me at that uh, pi\u2013 pineapple stand. He was gettin\u2019 ready to jump. I\u2019m glad you informed<\/em> me about their jumpin\u2019 characteristics, \u2018cause I could tell this is a very strange-lookin\u2019 spider.<\/p>\n

Several people:<\/strong> Laughter<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> They\u2019re supposed to be\u2013 They\u2019re supposed to be unafraid.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Huh?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> They\u2019re supposed to be really unafraid of you<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He wasn\u2019t a bit afraid. And I could tell he was gettin\u2019 s\u2013 do somethin\u2019 like a leap. I knew<\/em> he could leap, and then you\u2013 then you confirmed it. I said I\u2013 There\u2019s no doubt about what he is, or he said, they can leap. I knew that that was a ting tang and not a tarantula.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Ting tang is poison too. Ting tang.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Huh?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> A ting tang is poisonous?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know whether they\u2019re poisonous or not.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> It\u2019s supposed to be, supposed to be pretty poisonous.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> They are?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Supposed to be badly poisonous.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Most spiders\u2013 there\u2019s hardly a spi\u2013 a spider in the world is poisonous to the point of killing<\/em> you, though.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think so.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You don\u2019t\u2013 You\u2019re\u2013 You\u2019re pretty adverse to that, as I recall.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know what the\u2013 I only know what they tell me. Here in the States they say the black widow\u2019ll kill you, but in truth it won\u2019t.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It won\u2019t. I was bit by a black widow. I was bit by a black widow, \u2018cause of the people messin\u2019 around in the woodpile one day\u2013 one time. You remember? Were you up there?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Um-um [no].<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It bit\u2013 black widow bit me, (unintelligible), bigger than\u2013<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> (unintelligible under Jones) And then they\u2013 yeah, they say that the tarantulas bite you, but I\u2019ve read about them, they\u2019re only like a wasp sting. But that\u2013 that thing must be the worst one.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible under Male) I\u2019ve seen people bit by tarantulas.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> (unintelligible) prescribe\u2013 the doctors here prescribe the same<\/em> medication for a\u2013 a series of mosquito<\/em> bites that they uh, prescribe for a tarantula<\/em> bite, so it can\u2019t be that bad.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> But that thing is supposed to be worse than a tarantula, so what does that mean?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Ting tang. Well, find out about a ting tang, \u2018cause you got one up there by that pineapple.<\/p>\n

Several people:<\/strong> Laughter<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Well, I chased him off when I was walking down the road.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Huh?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I chased him away.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He uh\u2013 he left the pineapple?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Yeah, I tried to kill him and he split.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Aww. No telling, there\u2019ll be fifty in his place. But as I say, you can\u2013 you can predict a ting tang, you can pre\u2013 predict a God damned ra\u2013 what\u2019s your jumpin\u2019 snake down here?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Labarria and bushmaster.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Labarria.<\/p>\n

(several talking at same time, none discernable)<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> The bushmaster doesn\u2019t bite.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> (unintelligible) They curl up like a worm.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Because it bites so quick, so they say.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> The bushmaster won\u2019t bite you unless you really mash him or something.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Is he very poisonous too?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> They\u2019re the most poisonous snake in the world.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> What kind?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> In the world.<\/p>\n

(several talking at same time, none discernable)<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> (unintelligible) internal hemorrhage.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I heard it was uh, the Labarria is the fastest-striking snake, and that Bushmaster is the poison-est snake in the world.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Labarria can strike you, and I don\u2019t know how many times (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Five or six times, at least, some of \u2019em.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Well, I (unintelligible word) Labarria last weekend, and it didn\u2019t strike (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Well, thank Father. (unintelligible) story about walking out of La Guardia (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> One of ’em stuck its\u2013 One of ’em stuck his\u2013 (unintelligible) in his head and missed<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Female 2:<\/strong> Tommy [Bogue]\u2013<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Tommy (unintelligible). They don\u2019t\u2013 They don\u2019t miss.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (stammers) Their sight problems, it\u2019s not\u2013 never\u2013 never off (unintelligible) anywhere.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> (unintelligible) stay on the wall.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> So that\u2019s why we\u2019re not gonna be takin\u2019 any uh, sudden, quick, suicidal missions. The revolutionary suicide has to be a part of your thoughts, at least. (stammers) There\u2019s not a chance in a million [of it] happening. You\u2019ve gotta be prepared to do anything for\u2013 to bring about socialism.<\/p>\n

Female 2:<\/strong> That\u2019s true.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> The bush\u2013 you stepped on what now, the bushmaster?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Labarria.<\/p>\n

Several people:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, we had it when\u2013 Our first time here, Suzanne [Jones Cartmell] was saying, (unintelligible) what\u2019s this? Crawled over her feet. We were over in\u2013 We were in Matthews Ridge, it just crawled right over her feet. The government people leaped up and says, \u201cMy God!\u201d They all jumped up. That\u2019s Ro\u2013 that\u2019s what\u2019s his name, he remembered.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Ronald?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What\u2019s his name? Shaw?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Oh, shaw uh, (unintelligible name)?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yonk, Romaine, (unintelligible), they got everything they could to stamp on that damned snake. And it just crawled right over Suzanne\u2019s legs. She just watched it crawl. The damn Labarria, right in the uh, government chambers. (laughter)<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> (unintelligible) back down here, because remember we came (unintelligible) remember that first time I had to go down to the shop, they asked me if Paula [Adams] was the girl who the Labarria crawled over there on Matthews Ridge.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Suzanne, my daughter.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Yeah. And I said\u2013 I said, no, she had to go back to the States.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I think the city\u2019s more dangerous than the bush anyway.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It is.<\/p>\n

Several people:<\/strong> (Voices of agreement)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You bet your ass it\u2019s more dangerous. You\u2019re right.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I think we all should give Father rest now.<\/p>\n

Several people:<\/strong> (Voices of agreement)<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> We should get out of here.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All right, (unintelligible name), it\u2019s pleasant relief to\u2013 to talk. (unintelligible) delay your getting up in the morning, no way?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Not for some of us. Some of us have to get up.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah. Okay. You better go then.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Oh, Jerry [Livingston].<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Jerry\u2019s gone. He gets to work at 6:30.<\/p>\n

Several people:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It\u2019s surprised about that other thing. Don\u2019t be worried about it, because we don\u2019t\u2013 we\u2019re not quitters<\/em>. If there\u2019s any way to do it, we\u2019ll do it.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Even that<\/em> would\u2019ve been quick. It would have been very exciting, if you\u2019d been participating. Who gives a damn difference how you blow up (unintelligible [FBI summary says \u201cWashington\u201d]). What the hell\u2019s the difference if you do it as a Republican or a Democrat or a fascist or (Pause) a\u2013 a homosexual or what the shit? Don\u2019t make any difference (unintelligible), just get it blowed up.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Right. (several agree)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You see the\u2013 see the point, that\u2019s the\u2013 the rationale behind it. Get the job<\/em> done. But if you<\/em>, being socialist, like The Battle of Algiers<\/em>\u2013 And I want to get that film. I\u2019ll try to get that film down to you. That\u2019s amazing. The Battle of Algiers<\/em> is an amazing film. (Pause) The uh\u2013 the\u2013 the colonialists killed off (draws out word) all the leaders of the Algerian Revolution, socialist revolution there\u2013 killed ’em all off. Got ’em quartered in one city and murdered every blessed one of ’em. It shows you the film, it\u2019s graphically, carrying out their babies. Killed ’em from men, women, and baby. You know what that did to people? That stirred them up so much that two years later, people who were not committed to socialism, became socialism\u2013 uh, socialist and won<\/em> the battle\u2013 beat them, beat the French and Americans out, drove ’em into the sea. So if our dying for something gets somebody else awakened, you should be prepared to do<\/em> that.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> It\u2019d be fun to die anyway.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And if you die a socialist, and you kill<\/em> socialism, then you have served no purpose. If you die as a uh, fuckin\u2019 Republicans or something like that, you get people mad at Republicans, then you\u2013 you served your purpose. Who gives a shit? If they\u2019re really\u2013 Where they ought to be as socialist, who gives a shit<\/em> what history has to say about you? Now, that\u2019s an egotist that\u2019s talkin\u2019 then.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Better you die and get it over with anyway.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah, that\u2019s true. That\u2019s true. Or (unintelligible word, sounds like \u201cgirlfriends\u201d), sadly enough.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

(lots of shuffling around, no intelligible conversation)<\/p>\n

End Side 1<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Side 2<\/strong><\/p>\n

Les Mathison:<\/strong> That means some people get more, and others, some people don\u2019t get confronted (unintelligible) more.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> In others words, you\u2019re saying there\u2019s not equality.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, why don\u2019t you try to correct<\/em> that instead of running from it?<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> I\u2019ve been cut off<\/em> by it because (unintelligible word) like everything else. I can\u2019t speak up<\/em>, everyone explodes<\/em>.<\/p>\n

(pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Does anybody have anything to say on his\u2013 on his behalf?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> On his behalf?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah. Uh\u2013 uh\u2013 Preferably for<\/em> his case, rather than against<\/em> it right now. Uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Uh, we was talking about exploding. I think\u2013 I think Lester has had\u2013 Charlie [Touchette] just really exploded on him. Uh\u2013 (Pause) Philip [Blakey] has exploded on him. I know I<\/em> have exploded on him. Uh, Jim Bogue has.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I have.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> He has had some explosions\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, what (unintelligible under Female 1) What happens that causes all these people to\u2013 to explode? Now son, what from you. (unintelligible sentence) What do you<\/em> do that causes people to explode on you? If everybody explode on you, it\u2019s not because they dislike<\/em> you, must be something you\u2019re doin\u2019.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t mean to bring that around where he was\u2013 \u00a0I said something good about (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I know, I don\u2019t think you did. I\u2019m<\/em> doin\u2019 it. I\u2019m doin\u2019 it. I\u2019m the one askin\u2019 you, if all these people explode, then why\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> The only way you can start over is to find out what\u2019s causin\u2019 this, you know.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Uh, if everybody\u2019s exploding, then there must be some basis<\/em> for exploding, son.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> Well\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> They don\u2019t dislike<\/em> you.<\/p>\n

(Pause)<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> I think\u2013<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> That\u2019s how it\u2013 They like\u2013 They come and go (unintelligible word) they\u2019re dislikin\u2019 me.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> Do you think that necessarily when someone explodes, it doesn\u2019t\u2013 that it means that they dislike you? I mean, you know, I explode to my uh\u2013 these boys that are\u2013 are legally mine, and yet I\u2013 I\u2013 as much as I know about love, I love them. But I explode<\/em>. Boy, I\u2019ve really had it, especially with Stephan [Jones].<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s just that these explosions carry on. These explosions carry on, and I get (unintelligible word) back as a\u2013 as uh, branded anarchist and love my body. When Charlie threatened me, he says, you know, the only real reason it bothers you, that I threaten you, put a knife in your stomach, is it\u2019s because you love your body. And then in another council meeting, Joyce [Touchette] brought it up with (unintelligible, same time as Jones having an unintelligible side conversation) Paula [Adams]. And then the other day when I cut my finger\u2013 the other day when I cut my finger and wanted sufficient bandaids so I wouldn\u2019t get infection, Karen got all mad and says, \u201cYou just love your body.\u201d And she\u2019s the nurse.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> Well, I think it\u2019s true that none of us are analysts, and we\u2019ve got to be able to (unintelligible word), you know, especially\u2013 (unintelligible under Jones) But he\u2019s (unintelligible) overreacting (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> So how are you overreacting to all of this? You\u2019re not supposed<\/em> to be God.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> You know.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> This is an organization<\/em>. They\u2019re not<\/em> supposed to be the ultimate leader. They\u2013 They\u2019re here<\/em> uh, trying to do their\u2013 their\u2013 their jobs (unintelligible word) humanly possible.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Another thing\u2013<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> (unintelligible) but they\u2019re in control of the whole situation.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Are<\/em> they? I\u2019m here.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> I know, but\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I\u2019ve been here. I have a radio contact. If you make some intelligent kind of reaction, instead of a highly tempered reaction, or tho\u2013 those kind of reactions you can\u2019t deal with. I\u2013 I react to criticism.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> With such\u2013 With these things that come against me, wouldn\u2019t it make anyone ang\u2013 so mad?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> In my opinion, I\u2019ll think I\u2013 Well, I don\u2019t know. I think you\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> Well, a Band-Aid. You know, I think (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> (unintelligible) make a person so mad. I had a small furniture chair\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) your\u2013 your writing is a little uh, it\u2019s faded here.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> I had a small furniture chair made for children, and it got a broken arm on it, which could\u2019ve been fixed, and Tim [Swinney] just picked it up one day and\u2013 and took it out in the fire and burnt<\/em> it. Didn\u2019t come to me. And if\u2013 if he\u2019d been a mechanic, has a wrench and it\u2019s stickin\u2019, and I threw that away just because it was stickin\u2019, he sure would be mad. The chair could\u2019ve been repaired. It took a whole day to make the chair.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t made out\u2013 made out of half-done lumber. And also Tim\u2019s a big bully. When I\u2019d tell the nurse way over there, he took the ax away from me. I said, \u201cYou know, I\u2019m usin\u2019 that. I guess I\u2019ll have to improvise.\u201d He said, \u201cYeah, use your nose.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> Well, where is<\/em> Tim? Does it\u2013 (unintelligible) just say you\u2013 I mean, you know, maybe he needed the ax.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> (unintelligible) bully (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> I think\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You can\u2019t know what he was doin\u2019, son. All you can do is what he\u2019s saying. You can\u2019t know what his motivations are. And that\u2019s why I\u2019d like to hear the rest of you saying what\u2013 You\u2013 A while ago you said\u2013 \u2018cause the guy that was helpin\u2019 your case is, uh\u2013 He actually suggests, right off, the guy helping your case is May, and he said May\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> (same time as Jones, unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) particular position<\/em> you\u2019re trying to make. You\u2013 You uh\u2013 You uh, defend<\/em> them. Not because you\u2019re partial to them, or like them, because it builds your case<\/em>. I think it\u2019s wrong that you did that. I think uh\u2013 but God, how many times has anybody here had something thrown away that didn\u2019t belong to \u2019em probably, or I mean that they\u2013\u00a0uh, that they wanted, or it shouldn\u2019t have been done, or they would talk too wrongly. What if everybody left on the basis of that?<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> And I think it\u2019s possible that some\u2013 that people can just have so much confrontation with one person that they get up to here<\/em>, and maybe they aren\u2019t<\/em> so\u2013 they get to where they\u2019re less and less<\/em> objective. Maybe<\/em> not. And I\u2013 I\u2019m only saying that if you stay<\/em> \u2013 which I hope you do \u2013 there should be a starting over<\/em>, and all preconceived ideas, if possible, you should wipe yours out, and everybody else should wipe theirs out about you. But it does seem that you believe the people that are going\u2013 and the situations the way you\u2013 to support how you\u2019re looking at things.<\/p>\n

Female 3:<\/strong> (far from microphone) One thing, every message that you\u2019ve ever had from Father, has gone back to Father, and you haven\u2019t believed it. And I think (unintelligible). Every single (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Hold it, now. Chuck B. asked Charlie T. if he could go see his girlfriend<\/em>. (Pause) Chuck Beikman got a girlfriend?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Huh?<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> Yes. Yes. We was downriver getting lumber, and a girl came to the boat in the daytime. Asked with Chuckie that night, Chuck Beikman asked Charlie if he could go see her, and\u2013 and he said, Chuck\u2013 Now, Chuck, wouldn\u2019t that make an interesting subject when Father comes at Easter (unintelligible) now wouldn\u2019t it, Lester?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What do you mean by that<\/em>? That\u2013 That\u2013 That\u2013 That would have made a hell of an interesting talk. Th\u2013 th\u2013 that is a very good thing to be doin\u2019. What did you think of that, son? You think he\u2019s trying to cover it or something, then? Is that what you think?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Oh, I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> Well, what were you saying, were you trying\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That\u2019s where you\u2019ve gotta watch your paranoia<\/em>, Les. That\u2019s his way of sayin\u2019, \u201cNow this is a fine thing to be doin\u2019. Is\u2013 Is this the\u2013 Is this the kind of thing you want Father to hear on Easter?\u201d<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> Well, I sure thought he was\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Tryin\u2019 to cover?<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> \u2013coverin\u2019 for Chuck. You know, so\u2013 they sure didn\u2019t bring it up in the meeting when they got back here. It was\u2013 sure was<\/em> covered then. And a little farther\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, maybe so. Maybe he was<\/em> covering. Now I suppose we do<\/em> cover (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> And forget.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And forget. (Pause) You didn\u2019t ask if he was covering. Ask<\/em> him.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> Were you covering?<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/strong> I had forgotten about it, because I never looked at her as\u2013 as being his girlfriend. It\u2019d been a joke really, because during the day\u2013 what Lester\u2019s not telling is during the day, there were several people that came by and spoke<\/em> to Chuck and talked<\/em> to him. He lived<\/em> in the place for over\u2013 for two months, I believe.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Yeah, I was down there.<\/p>\n

Charlie:<\/strong> He lived down there and he got acquainted with everybody, and it happened to be the local schoolteacher, is who it was.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> She wasn\u2019t your girlfriend? Uh\u2013 You never had anything to do with her?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> (unintelligible) girlfriend.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> Because I heard about it from some of the guys who were down there with<\/em> you. You (unintelligible) teacher.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> (unintelligible sentence) Chuck was telling me that was a friend of his down in\u2013 went to a dance with her or something like that. Asked (unintelligible) his girlfriend, he says \u201cno.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> You went to the dance\u2013<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Well, the Iranian guys (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

(several talking at same time, none discernable)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) would sense, and I cannot get (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> Them Indian guys really just talk on you.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Well, he said\u2013 he\u2013 I heard him tell me about him having a teacher girlfriend. Uh\u2013 He knew a girl down there that was a teacher, and then these guys told me somethin\u2019 about a teacher, and I know that he didn\u2019t get together with them to get in on the same story.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah, (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> So it\u2019s a corroboration of something<\/em>. Whether he just talked<\/em> to her, or spent time talking to her in front of the guys, is\u2013 is, you know\u2013<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> They got jealous.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> They got jealous probably.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Son, can\u2019t you capsulize these things, rather than have to read all this. Like you say here that somebody\u2013 Charlie did somebody\u2013 he let somebody use uh\u2013 go back on the Cat. He just take \u2018em off and somebody else (unintelligible) writing (unintelligible) I can hardly read it. Somebody else did something, they got by with it\u2013 uh, might\u2019ve got by with something, and you didn\u2019t get by with it, or something, I guess is what you\u2019re saying.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> You know, I don\u2019t know, it\u2019s impossible to remember everything and every way you\u2019re treated [in] another situation, so you do it exactly<\/em> like it. (Pause) And often<\/em> people that are so suspicious of other people\u2019s motives, they need to look at their own<\/em> motives. (unintelligible word) I\u2019m talking to you, Les. When there\u2019s such suspicion of other people\u2019s motives, they should look at their own.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> (unintelligible) should be doin\u2019 if you were in it. (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> You\u2019re projecting. (Pause) And it\u2019s impossible, when you\u2019ve got all<\/em> of these people\u2013 It is not possible for me to remember how I treated Jimmie [Jim Jones, Jr.] when he did somethin\u2019 wrong, and then how I treated Stephan, if they did the same thing. I can\u2019t remember<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You see, you have the contradictions. You have the contradictions. Charlie is accused of being overly<\/em> uh, hard on his children\u2013 by not his children, but people outside. Liane [Harris], uh, for one. Then uh, you\u2019re saying he\u2019s (unintelligible word) under<\/em>. They both can\u2019t be right. And I\u2019ve<\/em> seen him be very firm\u2013 very, very firm with them.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And if that isn\u2019t\u2013 the reports, they say the same thing.<\/p>\n

Female 3:<\/strong> (unintelligible) challenge (unintelligible) harder (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> Well, that\u2013 Well, you\u2013 (unintelligible) show favoritism. And you\u2019re one of the most\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013obvious statements you\u2019ve made about anybody, how you can\u2013 how you\u2013 and you said it in a point of feeling<\/em>, of needing to get this job done, desperation. He can do these jobs and\u2013 and I need him so. And he did such a good job out there, pointed uh\u2013 (unintelligible word) point out what you did. It\u2019s just obvious you want to make a case to go home. (Pause) Home. Hell.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> I read one part here at the end, you said (unintelligible) \u201cAnyone who\u2019s been here as long as I have is truly dedicated.\u201d How long have you been here?<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> (unintelligible word) I mean to put up with\u2013 with this\u2013 with this uh, poor treatment.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> Boy, when I think\u2013 when I have seen the hell that Father Jim Jones has gone through for the twenty-six years I\u2019ve known him\u2013 talk about poor treatment! And I mean by people\u2013 the followers, some of \u2019em\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Oh! Most of \u2019em!<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> \u2013 I think\u2013 I\u2013 I think\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) black woman with her baby in her arms, sweetheart. (unintelligible) strong, if\u2013 you\u2019re less concerned about your treatment.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> If you could remember this\u2013 this\u2013 this baby\u2013 this mother\u2019s holding this baby in her arms, and in her last<\/em> desperation, trying to squeeze milk<\/em> out of her breast\u2013 if you look at that question closely.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible, could be \u201cI don\u2019t have that picture here today.\u201d)<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> You don\u2019t have that one?<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> I\u2019ve seen that picture, and we do have one here somewhere, but I don\u2019t know where it\u2019s at.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> It ought to be (unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> We<\/em> all have our bad times, Les. But I remember that, I remember that.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It looks like dried-up leather, and the poor desperate woman looks at it. So you see, I\u2013 if I\u2013 if I operated like you did, sweetheart, I would be up shit creek. If I operated like you do, everything that affects you, everybody that wrongs with you, you wouldn\u2019t have no leader, you would have no cause, there\u2019d be nobody to fight your battle when the\u2013 your time comes. And you\u2013 and uh, with you, where you\u2019re goin\u2019, you\u2019re gonna have to need me sometime, because you\u2019re thinkin\u2019 too much of what you\u2019ve given, how much you\u2019ve done, how much you\u2019ve put up with. Now if I had talked that way with Arnold, when I risked myself goin\u2019 to jail twice<\/em> for him, and he\u2013 he just forgets the next day. You see, you\u2019ve got<\/em> to dwell on what uh\u2013 what you should have in view of what\u2013 what the world\u2019s needs are.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> You\u2019re too caught up on your own there.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You\u2019re build\u2013 Yeah, you\u2019re building a place of survival<\/em> that could not only be for Peoples Temple, but thousands of other refug\u2013 \u00a0refugees who could use this as a base to move back<\/em> even. (Pause) Whereas they\u2019re gonna be prematurely wiped out because there\u2019s such an apathy in America. There\u2019s no labor movement, there is no social consciousness, there is absolute racism\u2013 uh, racism, as I told you in Boston. I told you not<\/em>\u2013 I didn\u2019t embellish a thing, I told it just as it is. Racism. Wayne Pietila beggin\u2019 to come back, from right where you\u2019re at in Seattle, wantin\u2019 to get out of there because the racism\u2019s so bad on him and his black wife [Terri Cobb Pietila]. Washington\u2019s filled<\/em> with it. We talked to, uh, who was it? Who was that? When you talk to the people in Washington about the prejudice. Prejudice exists in Washington State. They\u2019re\u2013 They\u2019re Mormon<\/em>, he had to admit there\u2019s terrible prejudice everywhere up there. You, uh\u2013 You, uh\u2013 And he\u2019s got an opportunity to deal with them, who cares, you know, what people think of you? I know people hate me. I\u2019m the authority. People hate me. They don\u2019t\u2013 Ain\u2019t no question about it, they hate me. People don\u2019t like me. You\u2019re acting as if the uh, L-I-T-T-L-E, because I don\u2019t want him to feel any condemnation about it, and he was just doin\u2019 what everybody feels<\/em>. He just acted it more normally. Everybody hates<\/em> the god, the true Savior, they hate<\/em> him, unless it\u2019s some kind of savior that builds the people uh\u2013 along the line they want to be built up, build up ego. I\u2019m hated<\/em>, man. They don\u2019t bother me, I do what I know is right to do. You know, you can build the same compost out here, you should\u2019ve been buildin\u2019 compost.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Who the hell, (unintelligible) people to you one way or the other.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> You get fed every day. You got a roof over your head, and you say you believe\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) bein\u2019 fed properly every day.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> You say you believe in what\u2019s bein\u2019 taught, so as long as you have your other needs met, and you know, what difference does it make? But the thing is, you\u2019re\u2013 you\u2019re paranoid<\/em>. Your\u2013 your treatment here isn\u2019t that unequal.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) had your fling with the fellah, you had your fling with the gal. Nobody made a big issue of that. You had no claims.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> And you can go<\/em> to these people if you\u2019ve got problems, (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) You look at the things that you did, that you\u2013 well, you didn\u2019t get by with, they did\u2013 but you got by with some stuff they<\/em> didn\u2019t get by with. It balances out.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

(Pause)<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> We don\u2019t expect perfection, uh, out of (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I want to prepare you for leadership, and even\u2013 You cannot lead until you follow<\/em>, man.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> Well\u2013<\/p>\n

(pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, what?<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> My opinion is I\u2013 is that the leadership I\u2019m under\u2013 not under yours, but under theirs\u2013 I haven\u2019t had much to follow.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> You follow your own consciousness.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> He just don\u2019t want to.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Then do\u2013 Then do your job.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) run down that\u2013 up and down the ri\u2013 river with\u2013 with a man or a woman?<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Okay, you can follow that, can\u2019t you? He works hard, and he saves money, and uh, he tries to be cleverly frugal, and he uh\u2013 he\u2019s got good PR ability for the most part, knows how to talk to people, got a certain stance that comes off well. What do you mean, there\u2019s nothin\u2019 to follow? He tries to be fair enough to run down and get you, (unintelligible) get you your lunch. You don\u2019t think that\u2019s somethin\u2019? You think that\u2019s not different than most people think about? Some people don\u2019t give a damn whether you get your lunch or not.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> I know that.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> When he jumps up in the middle\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You\u2019re just not guilty, (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> You just\u2013 You don\u2019t\u2013 You look too much to the negative. I mean\u2013<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Uh, Les\u2013 Lester, one day uh, Jim Bogue said something to me it was\u2013 that made a lot of sense. What he said uh\u2013 He said, We can\u2019t look at the personalities. We can\u2019t look in the\u2013 (unintelligible phrase) personalities and stuff, because we\u2019ll get nowhere. Uh\u2013 He made a real good point. I think you ought to think about that. It\u2019s just really ridiculous to (unintelligible) back.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You\u2019re a good person. That\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s uh\u2013 You\u2019re a good source of information. That\u2019s very helpful to the organization. (unintelligible) notice these things, and you should note these (unintelligible), but you shouldn\u2019t personalize it, should be more reportorial<\/em> uh, aspect, (unintelligible) getting all personalized here, like you\u2019re being given especially bad treatment.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> How\u2013 how am I supposed to clear these things up, if they\u2019re true or not true, uh, when I can\u2019t bring \u2019em to a meeting and have confrontation (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible word) But they say, (unintelligible) you act, uh\u2013 No, I hear<\/em> comments. And I\u2019ve read it too someplace, it\u2019s all here that you act irrationally when (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Female 3:<\/strong> (far from microphone, same time as Jones) control yourself. Can\u2019t have a reasonable confrontation when you lost control.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What\u2019s that? Can\u2019t hear you.<\/p>\n

Female 3:<\/strong> (unintelligible) I said you can\u2019t\u2013 you can\u2019t have a reasonable confrontation when you lose control of yourself, because then nobody can hear you.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> You also have a way of turning into a pantomime where you, uh\u2013 you absolutely infuriate people, and that\u2019s why it\u2019s probably a reason (unintelligible) grow up.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> Pantomime?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Pantomime.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> He mimics people when they\u2019re talking. Imitates us.<\/p>\n

Mathison: <\/strong>Also I\u2013 that\u2013 that display (unintelligible), I also have a hard time speaking<\/em>, and so I do speak in that manner too.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> Yeah, but you shouldn\u2019t\u2013 you don\u2019t have to mimic people.<\/p>\n

(several speaking at same time, none discernable)<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> (unintelligible) speaking like (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, you are, Lester.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Just after a conversation turns into a\u2013 a mess (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> That\u2019s everybody else\u2019s fault, when it turns into a mess.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> (unintelligible) everybody\u2019s out to get you. Nobody\u2019s out to get you.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> And Les\u2013 Les, there\u2019ve been several times when\u2013 like be in a meetin\u2019, tryin\u2019 to say somethin\u2019 to you, and you\u2013 you just cut us off\u2013 You cut one of us off when we talk to you, right in the middle of what we\u2019re sayin\u2019, and you\u2019re gonna (unintelligible) stages of how this one said this or that one said (unintelligible word) so and so. And you won\u2019t listen to a word that anybody else is sayin\u2019 or somethin\u2019. And it gets everybody else (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I noticed another thing, that uh, especially during the meeting, when confrontation (unintelligible) is taking place, you go off on tangents. Like uh, somebody makes a remark uh, that starts it off. Or you\u2019ll try to answer them<\/em>. Somebody else makes a remark, and before you\u2019ve finished answerin\u2019 the first one, you supposed to take off answerin\u2019 them<\/em>. Pretty soon you\u2019ve got about three or four remarks you\u2019re tryin\u2019 to answer all at the same time. You\u2019re goin\u2019 all around, now pretty soon everybody\u2019s just completely fogged-in as to what you\u2019re drivin\u2019 at, simply because you think everybody has you wrong on everything that they bring out.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You\u2019re putting yourself too important, son. You might relax and be able to explain things more if you didn\u2019t put yourself too important.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> Les, the very fact that you said, \u201cWell, I only mimic people after the conversation gets out of hand.\u201d What if everybody mimicked everybody else when the conversation got\u2013 Do you think that justifies you mimicking someone? Mimic someone?<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t mim\u2013 mimic them for, uh\u2013 for, uh\u2013 to\u2013 to build my case in an argument.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> Well, why then\u2013 (unintelligible word) You shouldn\u2019t. That naturally makes them angry.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> This\u2013 And I do not really mimic them like they say. They make (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Technical point.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> That\u2019s a technical point. Now I have to get defensive and go back\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> But you\u2019re (unintelligible word) You\u2019re defensive when you tried to defend mimicking\u2013 at all!<\/em> You\u2019re defensive<\/em>!<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> If I\u2019m accused<\/em> on it, what am I supposed<\/em> to do?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, what do you do? Do you mimic or not mimic?<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> Let \u2019em give some examples. I\u2019m not tryin\u2019 to (unintelligible) anybody off.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Okay, Bogue, give one.<\/p>\n

Jim Bogue:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 Uh\u2013 Two mornings ago, or three mornings ago, I was tryin\u2019 to get a work situation straightened out with Jeff [Carey]. And as I was trying to talk to Jeff, Lester, out of the blue, started one of these panorama-type things. Uh\u2013 Uh\u2013 I don\u2019t know exactly all the words he was saying, but uh\u2013 and he wouldn\u2019t hush about it. I finally had to drop the thing with Jeff. I finally got upset at Lester, and I told him that\u2013 that he should shut up, \u2018cause after all, trying to get this work organized, and all the sweat and blood that Father puts out for this program, and then he still<\/em> wouldn\u2019t hush. And so practically everyone here at the breakfast table has spoke to Lester about hushing up, and he was still doing this mimicking, and he wasn\u2019t even in on the conversation to start with.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> That\u2019s true. That\u2019s true, and then Jim Bogue and I went out here with the misunderstandings (unintelligible word).<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> You already had your misunderstandings.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Well, because you interrupted the\u2013 the course of conversation.<\/p>\n

Mathison:<\/strong> No, not because I interrupted. David jumped in and said\u2013 Jim Bogue says, \u2018Why didn\u2019t you get those banana sticks up for the whole week?\u201d And David says, \u201cIt took a whole week.\u201d Then I said somethin\u2019 to David. And that\u2019s when Jim Bogue misunderstood me, thought I was getting on Jim Bogue\u2019s (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> That\u2019s not the course of the conversation. So what are you going to do with the workers for the first hour and a half?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That\u2019s the point: Now how can so many people be wrong? And I don\u2019t hear you analyzing yourself in this. I don\u2019t hear you sayin\u2019 what kind of a horse\u2019s ass you are, because everybody is.<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> It\u2019s everybody else\u2019s fault. You\u2019re not wrong at all.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) justification. And you\u2019re contradictory. You think I\u2019m\u2013 you\u2013 you subconsciously\u2013 I\u2019m not accusing you of any conscious desire\u2013 but you (unintelligible) you\u2019re goin\u2019 back to work, and you ain\u2019t got no more intention, you\u2019re goin\u2019 back to (unintelligible). You know that. You\u2019re givin\u2019 me a bullshit case, tryin\u2019 to (unintelligible word ) take me for some kind of a damned dumb fool, and let you get out of here. No one\u2019s gonna stop you. If you haven\u2019t got the\u2013 the\u2013 the stamina to take it, I\u2019m not gonna stop you from goin\u2019. (pause) Don\u2019t give me no damned dumb case about goin\u2019 back there and doin\u2019 all these remarkable things for the cause. But if you really care that much, you stay here and build compost, instead of us having to deal with people we don\u2019t know, their work performance and we had to hire, and we can\u2019t trust to perform, who don\u2019t uh\u2013 who don\u2019t have in their heart to do it. You\u2013 you say you\u2019re prepared for people that could escape that (unintelligible word) back there, rather than go back there and be a part of it, by huntin\u2019 some capitalist uh, woman who you build up in some damned illusion because you had some religious insanity, uh, if\u2013 that now you\u2019re gonna give her justification. You went back the second time to Peoples Temple and socialism, not<\/em> insanity. And\u2013 and so she still rejects that. Uh\u2013 And then you\u2019re still gonna go back and give that woman all that time. And there\u2019s about\u2013 there\u2019s a couple thousand black people waitin\u2019 on a chance for life, and you can do it more than anybody, because Charlie says when you get to goin\u2019, you can turn a mountain \u2019til you get to do it when you want to work. When you want to get somethin\u2019 done, you can get a mountain. So you want to\u2013 you want to throw 2,000 black people\u2019s lives away for one honky-ass bitch. That\u2019s what it boils down to, son. And I don\u2019t play games with you. I\u2019ve always been\u2013 and you talk (unintelligible word). I don\u2019t like that. (pause) So if you want to go back there, to that, let\u2019s just call it what it is, and face your own guilt, \u2018cause I\u2019ve faced mine. Don\u2019t try to dress up this shit (unintelligible word) blame this one, and that one, and another one, and nitpick. Uh\u2013 All the stuff they did wrong they shouldna done. Shouldna burned your chair up, and all that kind of stuff. They shouldna done that. But (unintelligible) you, you shouldn\u2019t have done either. That\u2019s not justifying what they did wrong, that should\u2013 that should be corrected, and it should be presented, and it should be con\u2013 presented in a logical a\u2013 attitude, and should be corrected there. But you sow discontent when you get disturbed. You sow it to others. You get around people (unintelligible word) and create their<\/em> negativity. And you know<\/em> you do bad, and you\u2013 you help create some of the antagonism that comes your way. Couldn\u2019t have all that antagonism comin\u2019 your way, (unintelligible), \u2018cause you\u2019re not ugly. People do react, unfortunately, if physical appearance, you\u2019re not ugly, so they\u2019re not reacting to that. And they, unfortunately, react to certain handicaps, which is a terrible animal condition that\u2019s not been removed out of socialism. And the\u2013 that<\/em> isn\u2019t there. So it\u2019s a personality<\/em> characteristic they\u2019re uh\u2013 they\u2019re reacting to. You go around threatenin\u2019 to knock, uh, beat on this one and that one, probably too much of that violence. But uh, you seem to be gettin\u2019 a little bit more of it than the average. Think I certainly feel better about you gettin\u2019 somethin\u2019\u2013 some of the other uh, things\u2013 that\u2019s kind of you, (unintelligible) drinkin\u2019, and all you guys sittin\u2019 here doin\u2019 nothin\u2019.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Whenever we\u2019re conducting a meeting, it can go on in such a tone where it is\u2013 it is, you know, halfway normal thing. And if\u2013 And if something is brought up that Lester is not even the focal point of it\u2013 I mean, he\u2013 it\u2019s just that he was\u2013 you know, he\u2013 he wasn\u2019t even the focal point. If it\u2019s up, he gets very hostile and hateful, he\u2013 and he interrupts the whole meeting. The only time that he will con\u2013 will conduct himself in a ci\u2013 civil manner\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (cutting off Male above) Anybody read (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> (in hushed tone, probably speaking to Jones, unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> The only time he\u2019ll\u2013 The only time that he\u2019ll conduct himself in a civil manner is like whenever somebody is here from the States.<\/p>\n

(overlapping voices)<\/p>\n

[Editorial note: At this point, the tape deteriorates and becomes increasingly unintelligible for the remaining five minutes of the recording. The only discernible sentences follow] <\/em><\/p>\n

Marceline Jones<\/strong>: You gotta remember (unintelligible) we\u2019re up there fighting for everything we can get.<\/p>\n

(several unintelligible moments)<\/p>\n

Female:<\/strong> It\u2019s like, you know, when anybody decides to go out, we gotta defend ourselves, we\u2019re not gonna let you (unintelligible under Marceline)\u2013<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> We\u2019re gonna defend these children.<\/p>\n

(overlapping voices, unintelligible exchanges)<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> Just because you were here a year doesn\u2019t mean that you\u2019re always gonna be loyal, you\u2013 especially if you were so paranoid that you (unintelligible)\u2013<\/p>\n

(several unintelligible moments)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (two unintelligible words) talking about shifting their bodies in a socialist movement, you gotta talk about it. You don\u2019t want it brought up, it\u2019s automatically brought up. It\u2019s the nature of your request.<\/p>\n

(several unintelligible moments)<\/p>\n

Marceline Jones:<\/strong> (Laughs) Excuse me while I inspect this kitchen.<\/p>\n

(several unintelligible moments)<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I think that uh, what\u2013 what you said\u2013<\/p>\n

(several unintelligible moments)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1,\u00a0Pt. 2). [Editorial note: Both sides of this tape have too many unidentified male voices to keep track of. Each change of voice is […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":363,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-77970","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/77970","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=77970"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/77970\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":131513,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/77970\/revisions\/131513"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=77970"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}