{"id":77972,"date":"2018-02-05T11:21:34","date_gmt":"2018-02-05T19:21:34","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=77972"},"modified":"2021-02-04T14:48:13","modified_gmt":"2021-02-04T22:48:13","slug":"q705-transcript","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=77972","title":{"rendered":"Q705 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/i><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>. To read the Annotated Tape Transcript, click here<\/a>.
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>,\u00a0Pt. 2<\/a>).<\/p>\n

(Note<\/strong>: This tape was transcribed by Kathryn Barbour. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)<\/em><\/p>\n

(Editor\u2019s note<\/strong>: Side 1 of this tape has numerous breaks due to malfunctions in the recording equipment at the church service, sometimes lasting less than a second. Rather than noting each one, this transcript will indicate only those which make a word or sentence unintelligible, or which most likely were deliberate edits.)<\/em><\/p>\n

Male: <\/strong>\u2013have been praised by our government as giving the highest level of care. We have a large children\u2019s<\/em> ranch on 40 acres of land. Many of the\u2013 (tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013give your neighbor an embrace, or a clasp of the hand, and say, God\u2019s love be with you. We have Hindustani, Moslem, Christian gathered in this\u2013 these portals, and it is written, whosoever loveth is born of God and knoweth God. So greet your neighbor with love, get to know your neighbor, relax and say \u201cpeace and blessings\u201d or hello to your neighbor. Will you do that? Everyone, look at your neighbor. If you don\u2019t see God in your neighbor, you\u2019ll not see God in the abstract. For you are the temples<\/em> of the Holy Spirit. When Jesus was taken away, he said for what good work do you stone me? They said, for no good work but because you, being a man, make yourself God. He said it is written, Ye all are Gods. That\u2019s what Jesus came to manifest, Krishna, and all the prophets of the great holy orders came to manifest, that we are temples of the living God. Today we have come desperately in this hour, seeking a manifestation of God. For if God is not manifest in our midst, how are we to believe? Jesus said, these signs shall follow the believer. He said, after I\u2019ve gone away these things shall ye do and greater, because I go to the Father. If it were not so, then he would have told us. He said, I am the same today, yesterday and forever. The God that changeth not. Yet in many parts of the world today, we have barely a form of godliness denying the power thereof. Institutional religion, paid clergy, clergy living far abi\u2013 above the standards of their people, and no real active\u2013 activity of the Holy Spirit in the midst of the people. But Jesus said in the judgment, when he came to separate those that were unjust from those that were just, of the sheep from the goats, he said I was hungry, and you fed me not. That\u2019s why I feel terribly ridiculous in this suit. I never wear it. And I feel most ridiculous in it. Isn\u2019t there some robe back there? I dress very ordinarily, and I\u2019ve adopted eight children and I own no car, and I believe that that is not necessarily the standard that everyone must live by. I only own one pair of shoes, and I find that that\u2019s most convenient for me. I only have two feet.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Scattered laughter<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Clears throat) But I feel\u2013 I feel most<\/em> ridiculous in this suit, and if there\u2019s some choir robe or something back there, I would like to be more at ease<\/em> than I am in someone else\u2019s suit<\/em>. Whoever bought this was not me, I would\u2019ve never bought one like it. But Jesus said that we were to minister to the needs of humanity. Make God manifest. He said if we did not feed the hungry and clothe the naked, there would be no evidence that God was in the world. If we did not heal the sick, [if] we did not bring help, not only spiritually or esoterically or paranormal, but bring power to bring hospital care and medical care. I just looked to my left and saw one of the youngsters that we adopted out in Port Kaituma. And we\u2019re adopting children there every day, we have 27,000 acres upon which we hope to build an apostolic community, where there\u2019ll a hospital, where there\u2019ll be schools, where there will be equal housing for all. That\u2019s why we came to Guyana because the Guyanese government has said they want to food\u2013 they want to feed and clothe and house the nation, and by 1976. Well, if the church doesn\u2019t<\/em> do it, government will have<\/em> to do it. And too many places we find churches building great cathedrals and great synagogues, and there\u2019s no ministry for the needs of humanity. It\u2019s time that we either get\u2013 uh, get ourselves in a condition of being hot or cold, because the lukewarm<\/em> will be spewn out of the mouth of God. If we are to be his disciples, we are to be living epistles, living Bibles, read and known of all men everywhere. None of us do enough. I never feel like I\u2019ve begun to even touch the bottom, to reach to the top. But it is our purpose<\/em> to strive forward to perfection. As Jesus said, be ye perfect, even as I and the Father are perfect. And in apostolic cooperative living, as it was on the day of Pentecost, there is a solution for man\u2019s hunger, there\u2019s solution for man\u2019s poverty. There\u2019s solution for war! Because on the day of Pentecost, when they were filled with that great ecumenical spirit, when the Holy Ghost descended upon them and they were filled to overflowing, they shared their possessions. No one had to legislate it, no one had to enact laws to cause people to share. They shared from house to house, and it was said of them that they had all things common. We deeply wish to share with you today, we deeply hope and we\u2019ll strive, we have limited space, time to this building\u2013 for the use of this building, but we will, with all the time that we have, employ our eff\u2013 our best<\/em> effort to bring health to you, to encourage you to believe that God is not dead, but still alive.<\/p>\n

Congregation<\/strong>: Stirs<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>And as our hands are clasped across this room, the musician plays something in the background. God the Father of all living beings. (voice rises, then moderates) The same God in every temple, synagogue and shrine throughout this great Guyanese republic. We\u2019re calling upon your name, Jehovah Jireh, according to our Judeo-Christian tradition. But God-love, we\u2019re calling upon the name of love, to manifest yourself, to speak, to show us in a spiritual way that the presence, the eternal presence of Christ, is still here. (voice rises, then moderates) We\u2019re asking for the signs and wonders that filled<\/em> the early church, that caused people to drop all<\/em> their possessions and their wares and their status symbols and follow the Christ. We\u2019re asking for a movement of the Holy Spirit in our midst today, that will cause<\/em> people to believe that there\u2019s hope. We ask it in the name of Christ. Amen, and amen. Would you stretch just once and then be seated. Would you stand and stretch.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Stirs, piano plays softly<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(Clears throat) (Pause) Perhaps we should sing some little chorus, and we come from our American churches, knowing uh, difference\u2013 uh, different choruses, I\u2013 I\u2019m sure, than you\u2019re used to. What\u2019re you singing there, what\u2019re you playing?<\/p>\n

(Voice too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones: (Sings) <\/strong>How God has (tape edit) (Speaks) And looking over to my side, I felt that you\u2019re having some trouble with arthritis, the joints up here in the neck and in the knees are bothering you. So just stand up right now and stretch them out. Stand them up and stretch them out. Move them up, move them up, move them up. (Pause) Now bend them back and forth that way. Now bend the knee joints. The dampness is\u2013 continue it on, continue. There\u2019s a power of love that transcends all mortal error, and all mortal limitation. Again, again now, now why does the\u2013 our gracious minister did back there, our black brother. Will you<\/em> jump up and down? Try it. Jump up and down. Just like a little child, become like a little child, become like a little child.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Cheers, piano plays more loudly<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(Calls out) Wonderful! Wonderful!<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> Whoa!<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(Joins in song) Well, Kumbaya\/ Somebody needs you now \u2013(speaks) Blessing. (unintelligible word). Is the\u2013 is the pain all gone? (Pause) It\u2019s all gone! You\u2019re wonderful. You\u2019re wonderful.<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> Somebody needs you now\/ Kumbaya<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(Joins in song) Somebody needs you now, kumbaya, some\u2013 (tape edit) (speaks) \u2013important as the fruits<\/em> of the spirit. Can you get someone a seat here, so that we can be able to move on, because if we have much disruption, we will have\u2013 and you must always prefer your brother and your sister above yourself. Selfishness is not the way of any<\/em> great religion, it\u2019s not the way of Christ. He said, deny yourself. The people that will get healing often are the ones who are coming for someone else. (aside, off mike) Will you, brother, help\u2013 help them with that, help them with seats, help them out (pause) (tape edit) Bible that uh, I don\u2019t know, how many have your Bibles here? Of course, we\u2019re all different religions. How many have a Bible here? A hundred and fiftieth Psalm, but I don\u2019t see enough to sing it, we can put the Bible<\/em> to song, or we might sing something at this moment, while people are getting\u2013 I wish you wouldn\u2019t crowd the aisles. You\u2019ll find it won\u2019t do what you want it to do. Love and unselfishness is the thing that accomplishes more than anything else. (Clears throat) (pause) Hands clasped, please. If we will be seated. Sometimes I feel I have to write down certain things, and we will\u2013 we will notify you by mail<\/em>, if there\u2019s something personal. Hands clasped. (pause) What is it? Father, have mercy. Our old spiritual that our brothers and sisters that came over in the times of slavery and indentured servitude. Father, have mercy. (Pause) Yes, Father have mercy,<\/p>\n

Choir: <\/strong>Have mercy\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(Joins in song) Have mercy\u2013 (tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Speaks) \u2013area. Sometimes I feel to move out in the auditorium, (tape edit) makes no\u2013 (Pause) Please, would you keep a little section right here free, that I could walk down. I never know what I\u2019m going to do, and having been up for over a week<\/em> making plans for our agricultural mission, where we will have facilities for everyone, I am more tired<\/em> than usual, and thus I would appreciate if we could have just a little space that we could get through, if there was someone that I feel led to go to. Because that\u2019s the way my ministry functions. I\u2019m moved by something I can\u2019t explain, and something will come as it did to the sister about the growth and the pain<\/em> she was having in her head, back there. Or this sister that was in pain here. Something will come, and then I must have freedom<\/em> to get to<\/em> them, or to see<\/em> them, to make contact with them. Hands clasped, please. (pause) Pray as you are accustomed<\/em> to pray, because one God answers us. We\u2019re one God, one people, one world. (long pause) (tape edit) Write down some things that are too private to mention, here, please, if you will allow me. No talking if you would, pre\u2013 (Pause) There\u2019s some woman\u2013 or I\u2013 Fernandez, Fernandez? Excuse the way I butcher the English language, we Americans have gotten away from pure English. (Pause) Albertina. Bless you. The pain all gone from your head now, and all from your side? Oh, you\u2019ve brought the growth? There\u2019s the growth that has passed. Bless you! (Calls) Mighty God! Mighty God! Mighty God!<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Scattered calls, applause<\/p>\n

Singer: <\/strong>(singing) Oh Father, have mercy, have mercy\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Just hold it up there, rather than go through the auditorium, I can see\u2013 She said all of her pain\u2019s gone. This woman\u2019s a stranger to me, you can check with her after the service if you want to. She rushed here. (tape edit) gone! Her growth is gone! So let that visualization, let that visualization (tape edit) because (tape edit) you visualize, you tend to materialize. As you think in your mind, so are you. The power of mind is a great unknown phenomena. A great unknown quantity. We do not believe that this ministry takes the place of medical science, because Luke<\/em> was a great physician. We believe the healing as described in the early church, the herbs and the leaves were for the healing of the nation. We believe in doctors, we believe in medicine, but we also believe that when man cannot reach you, God<\/em> can reach you!<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Praise the name. Praise the name. By the way, the sister that\u2019s carrying that growth was once a Catholic sister, uh, now she works with the Catholic ecumenical and Protestant ecumenical brotherhood of people. She is of Catholic background, she was paralyzed<\/em> on her left side from a stroke. This woman is\u2013 she came to me, came with me, all the way from Am\u2013 United States of America. She was paralyzed on her (tape edits) \u2013been healed ever since. And she traveled, she just came in on one of our boats<\/em>, from up Port Kaituma way. So that\u2019s something to see, a woman near 80, traveling night and day, going all over the States with me. She\u2019s my mother<\/em>, in the spirit. She\u2019s my mother in God. And she\u2019s a great and grand lady. So God<\/em> is no respecter of person (tape edit) be Protestant or Catholic, Jewish, Mohammedan, Hindustani, (calls out) whosoever loveth is born<\/em> of God, and God is here to meet your needs, so don\u2019t think there\u2019s any particular little ritual or routine, for God honors faith, wherever it is. Infinite mind honors faith, wherever faith is manifest.<\/p>\n

Voice in crowd (likely Archie Ijames):<\/strong> Yes, yes, yes, yes.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Blessings. Blessings. Blessings. Blessings. When I say that, say that to your neighbor. Say \u201cBlessings\u201d to your neighbor, because it\u2019s you and I that\u2019ll do this together, not just me alone. I\u2019m still concerned about a woman, if you would\u2013 just a moment\u2013 uh, Albertina Fernandez. Who is this? Again, one of those situations that are of urgent nature, where there\u2019s pain, (Pause) impending blood pressure stroke, as it was with this woman that was just healed. Somewhere in this vast assembly, where are you? Would you wave your hand? Albertina, I know you\u2019ll have trouble understanding my Americanized\u2013 my butchered English, but try<\/em> to be patient with me. Albertina\u2013 (tape edit) You have some loved one named Janie, or something of that sort?<\/p>\n

Voice too soft<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Is your address 1080? You have trouble with your heart. You woke up this morning with trouble here, in the center section, of your body. You lift up your hands now, the pain will go away, because this evening, I feel<\/em> that you would\u2019ve passed away. But you will not now.<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> Oh! Oh, have mercy, have mercy on me. (tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>\u2013on away, let\u2019s clap and make a joyful noise unto God.<\/p>\n

Singers: <\/strong>(Diana Wilkinson and male singer) Have mercy, have mercy on me. Oh, God, have mercy, oh, ye\u2013 (tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(Several sentences incomprehensible with repeated technical difficulties) People are moving and pulling the cords away from the microphone. (pause) Blessings. When I (tape edit) out to the auditorium, faith be it unto you. As I said, I am just a humble servant. Anything I have to (tape edit) it\u2019s because love<\/em> has been given to me from God. Or from good. (Incomprehensible sentences) Shhhh. You\u2019ll have to be very quiet. All those promptings, all those revelations must be answered. When I call someone in this fashion. (numerous breaks) (Pause) Hands clasped, please. (Pause) Whose mother\u2019s name\u2013 maiden<\/em> name is Broderick? (tape edit) \u2013to each other, and we\u2019ll be coming every few months. Because we\u2019ll be coming\u2013 (tape edit) night and day, in the agricultural mission, think that\u2019s the most important thing, to feed and to clothe and to house people. So whenever we come, whether it be to this church or whatever place we happen to come, and we will become acquainted with each other, and we\u2019ll be able to love<\/em> each other more freely, and as that happens, miracles can [take] place in great significance. (pause) Broderick. (long pause, intermittent bursts of recording broken by breaks) \u2013just a miracle that I\u2019m able to speak to you, because I\u2019ve been able to speak about\u2013 I\u2019ve been speaking 20 hours a day,<\/p>\n

Voice:<\/strong> That\u2019s true.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013entire week (long break, noises on tape) You\u2019ve told no one in this building, and I don\u2019t know anything about your background, is that correct? Go to the bathroom and you\u2019ll find not only will your pain be gone, but your urine will clear, as clear as water.<\/p>\n

Voice:<\/strong> Oh, thank God!! Yes!<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> Ohhh, ohh.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Amelia Barnhart. Who is this? Another stranger to me. Amelia Barnhart. I can\u2019t find the person when I\u2019m not able to see them. Just a-thinking, if you can let me see through there, she can\u2013 just as long as I can see her. (pause) (Aside) No, I don\u2019t need that. Thank you. (Pause) (tape edit) You\u2013 Can we\u2013 Don\u2019t\u2013 don\u2019t press there, till we can see\u2013 Right there is it (unintelligible word). (to audience) Hands clasped. Pull that back. (Pause) Just stand right there for a moment now. Is this uh\u2013 (Pause) Amelia Barnhart. Bless you. Hands clasped. If you\u2019ll look just at me, just look at me. You don\u2019t have to look directly at me, but look this way, so that I know that you\u2019re making communications. You\u2019ve injured a limb at some time, you\u2019ve injured a limb, or a knee<\/em>. Yes, the knee. And uh, you have a very bad difficulty in this area, I feel that now. I don\u2019t know you. I\u2019ve never met you in my life, is that correct? May the love of God\u2013 You\u2019ve come\u2013 you\u2019ve come for someone else, but God is meeting you. You\u2019ve come for the need of Margaret. But the need of your own<\/em> life is going to be met. Our hands clasped, please. Hands clasped, please. There\u2019s something I want to write down, for just a moment, please. (Pause) Now in the name of Christ, in the name of the love of God, we move into this body. I\u2019d like to show that we don\u2019t have to touch, but sometimes it helps to touch. (tape edit)<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> Father throughout\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> The pain in her stomach and the abdominal region and the crippled knee is all healed. Let\u2019s praise the name of the living God.<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> He is the great I Am, the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (joins singer) \u2013his name\u2013 (tape edit) (Speaks) Now, it\u2019s all clear. Let\u2019s praise for that. He went to the bathroom and his urine\u2019s all clear.<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> \u2013I Am, the alpha and omega\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (joins singer) \u2013the beginning and the end, his name is wonderful, the prince of peace is he\u2013<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> \u2013he\u2019s the everlasting father, throughout eternity .<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Speaks) Clarice\u2013 (pause) Clarice Freitas. I\u2019m getting a\u2013 a danger signal of high blood pressure again. Pressure around the shoulder, the neck, the head. Clarice, I think it is, Freitas. The best I can say in my American English. Who is this person? Clarice Freitas. You\u2019re here. I would not feel you if I did not know your presence. (Pause) Right there, that\u2019s all right. Lift your hand. You\u2019ve been having\u2013 You know you have blood pressure problems, is that correct? Yes, she says. You\u2019re a stranger to me, is that correct? Yes, she says. Let\u2019s put out our hands, now. May the name of Christ, the name of love, Christ means anointing, means goodness. May the name of Christ, the name of love, the name of God be exalted. Emmanuel God with us. Touch her body. We ask it, and we give you the glory. Now try it. Now try your neck, ma\u2019am. Try your neck. (Pause) Is the pressure gone? Is the pressure gone from your head?<\/p>\n

Voice too soft.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yes sir, it\u2019s all gone. Let\u2019s be grateful. Let\u2019s be grateful. Blessings, blessings to God.<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> Yes, yes, yes, yes.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause, music swells<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Blessed. Rejoice with your neighbor! Rejoice with your neighbor! (Pause) (Sings) It\u2019s not by might\u2013<\/p>\n

Wilkinson:<\/strong> (joins Jones) it\u2019s not by pow\u2013 (tape edit) by the spirit save (tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Speaks) \u2013really wonder who\u2019s be\u2013 missionarizing to who<\/em>, because we feel like we\u2019ve received the most benefit being in Guyana, because we have much<\/em> that you could teach us. But if you wish to help with anything after hearing our broadcast, give it to the Ministry of Agriculture, or one of these GS uh\u2013 What is it, the youth\u2013 youth organization that all political parties seem to identify with here? G\u2013 (stumbles over words) GFC, isn\u2019t it? Or the FGC. Food. I\u2013 I\u2019m not familiar,<\/p>\n

Voice from Audience:<\/strong> FCH.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>FCH. Food, clothing and housing the nation by 1976. Our t\u2013 number at which you\u2019ll be able to reach one of our executives is 61592. That phone will be hooked up in a matter of two days. If you wish to write us, what is the postal box? (Pause) I\u2019m not through. I\u2019m just going through now, in the auditorium, to minister to different ones, and as you touch me, try not to pull me over, just touch, or whatever it makes faith. Whatever gives you contact with the Christ within you, or the God, or the love within you. Because I\u2019ve seen already one of our ladies that was healed was Hindu. So you see, God is no respecter of persons. Love and healing is available to everyone, no matter what their religion, no matter what their creed. Post Office Box 893 in Guyana [Georgetown]. You can reach us if there\u2019s anything we can do to serve you. Or in the States, it\u2019s Peoples Temple, Post Office Box 214, Redwood Valley. We\u2019re connected with the Disciples of Christ brotherhood of two million members. President [Lyndon] Johnson, before his d\u2013 ex\u2013 expiration, was a member of our church. And a couple of governors. People of all walks of life and all races that believe in every church being autonomous and able to follow its convictions. Just to give you that background. Peoples Temple has a children\u2019s home on 40 acres. We have several convalescent sanitoriums, we have our own college dormitories, because we believe that the church must take care of the necessities of the saints and minister first to the household of the faith. So we educate our youth from the cradle to the transition. This young woman to my side is a student doctor. Another young man, Jewish, young man is a doctor [Larry Schacht], who\u2019s been up in Port Kaituma. And we\u2019re so grateful that he was up there just<\/em> at the right time, because a young woman would\u2019ve passed, if it had not been for him being there when she went into anphlactic [anaphylactic] reaction. We have been giving free medical exams all this week<\/em>, and that\u2019s the kind of missionary<\/em> program we envision doing, and we would like to be able to help you. There\u2019s some of you that wish educational uh, benefits that we have to offer. We want to work in every way possible to assist you. As I say, we take care of our senior citizens in all Peoples Temple churches, we have our own convalescent hospital, our own rest homes, our own children\u2019s homes, our own uh, employment program. If the church is to do its duty and to stop the dangers of fanatical extremists, be they right or left, if the church is to be able to stop the inroads of totalitarian regimes<\/em>, the church must do<\/em> what it was instructed to do at the day of the apostles\u2019 creed, the day of Pentecost. The church must<\/em> take care of the necessities of its own people. And we hope that you will do<\/em> so and work with the government in fulfilling the feeding and clothing and housing of this nation. Our hands are clasped again, let\u2019s have another moment of waiting upon God, that there\u2013 if there\u2019s another revelation, that it would come. (tape edit) He [Larry Schacht] left his home, his home. He was a very prominent\u2013 from prominent Jewish family, but he got caught up in the drug world, and his mind was damaged from the use of LSD. I don\u2019t think you\u2019re\u2013 I think you\u2019re so blessed to not know that problem here, in Guyana. Well, he came by the church<\/em> one day, and he couldn\u2019t speak or talk. And I spoke to him, and offered him our place of residence to stay. As you know, I\u2019ve adopted eight children, I think they told you that, and there\u2019re many of them here, but I won\u2019t take time to introduce all of my legally adopted children. Anyway, he is now not only healed, but he is a straight A student, young doctor. I think that\u2019s wonderful, that\u2019s what\u2019s happened in those years since that time. And his liver was damaged, and he was healed. And here\u2019s the young man, he\u2019s been giving medical exams with me, he\u2019s been up all night and all day. Dr. Schacht, come over, be\u2013 so we can see you. Peace.<\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He will be coming\u2013 As soon as he finishes his residency, he will be coming as a missionary permanently<\/em> to Guyana, and he will receive no<\/em> money for his services. That\u2019s his dedication.<\/p>\n

Voice:<\/strong> Right. Right.<\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause. Piano playing softly<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Hands clasped. There\u2019s another name coming. And I have to move\u2013 Gonzales. (Pause) Trouble in the leg. Gonzales. (Pause) Do you have a loved one named Caesar? You\u2019ve told me nothing about your\u2013 Caesar, your son. You\u2019ve told me nothing about your life. Let me tell you something how\u2013 that might help build your faith, because you, too, are in trouble with your heart, and your husband is in trouble in his lungs, some difficulty with his lungs. (Pause) Peace. Very quiet. As I\u2019ve said before, I don\u2019t know you, either. And you are suffering from a very crippled knee. Yes, I see. (Pause) May I give you something that will help your faith? (Pause) In a vanity drawer in your bedroom, you have a beaded purse and a green wallet. That\u2019s where you would keep it, in a vanity drawer, the upper drawer. Is that correct? Now, let us work in faith. (steps away from mike) Work that knee. Work that knee. (tape edit)<\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause. Piano playing<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (joins singer) \u2013on others thou are calling, oh, do not pass me by. Oh, savior, savior, hear my hum\u2013 (tape edit) (Speaks) \u2013able to see even as it was there, in this woman\u2019s drawer<\/em>, it\u2019s able to recognize things and tell you the thoughts of your mind as these are going through. It\u2019s quite known all over the world that it\u2019s possible to do things that are not in the realm of the three dimensions that we know, that mind can even move matter, in empirical studies in scientific laboratories. So if the scientists of both sides of the\u2013 the east and the western world, both sides of the world, are attesting to the fact that mind can achieve every<\/em> kind of miracle. Dr. Flanders Dunbar, I think, prominent psychiatrist of the west, the most prominent, I\u2013 I presume. She didn\u2019t have any particular church or faith, but she spoke of the difference, uh\u2013 many, many different case studies, where people had faith. One person would have a little cancer nodule in the breast. By the way, there\u2019s someone now, that uh, t\u2013 talking about that. June<\/em>? (Pause) June. Who is this? Back here in the back. Yes. You\u2019ve got a nodule in your left breast? Wave your hand back and forth, so I can see you. I see you. Now (Pause) you thought, that man can\u2019t heal<\/em> those things. Is that your thought? Touch<\/em> your breast, and see. Press. Press and see, the nodule will be gone. (Pause ) And go to your doctor and you\u2019ll find it\u2019s gone, just as I said.<\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Calls.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Is it gone now? Wave your hand if it\u2019s gone. Blessed, blessed, blessed, blessed.<\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Hands clasped, please, again. I must write down something. (tape edit) But I have to move, is it. (pause) Hands clasped, please. (tape edit) Some things that I must write you<\/em> about, if you\u2019ll allow me to do that. (pause) (tape edit) There\u2019s something I don\u2019t understand. I don\u2019t hear enough to get an address, or a way to\u2013 way to reach you. I don\u2019t have anything come to me. Things will flash before me and I don\u2019t\u2013 and I hear\u2013 I hear something like Vandereyer. (pause) Is any name in this auditorium such as that? (pause) If you\u2019re here, please make yourself known by wave of hand. Vande Reyer. No. I\u2019m talking for an exact name, an exact name.<\/p>\n

Voice:<\/strong> (inaudible, from audience)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Hands clasped. Bring her right to my side here, will you, please?<\/p>\n

Voice onstage: <\/strong>Oh, mighty God.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Is it Lily? Billie or something, Vanderyer? Hands clasped. Hands clasped. (pause) With our hands clasped, please, each of you, like this was your sister, or your brother, or your mother or your daughter. (tape edit) \u2013personal, I didn\u2019t want to go into it, but she verified she had the ailment, and now she will be healed.<\/p>\n

Voice onstage: <\/strong>Thank you!<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Let\u2019s grip our hands and clasp. Blessings, blessings, blessings, blessings.<\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause. Piano playing<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> Thank you, pleasure.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (joins singer) Oh! (tape edit) (speaks) \u2013down. (pause) Nurses will come through, the young doctor students will come through. We\u2019ll do as much as we can. Always remember that you are to go to doctors. And if we can help any of you to do<\/em> so, we\u2019ll be so happy as we get our mission established because, as I said, our missionary doctors will be free<\/em>. That\u2019s the purpose of our mission here, is to give complete health care without any charge when we come.<\/p>\n

(piano plays)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Hands clasped. (tape edit) \u2013ame, I don\u2019t<\/em> know, this strange name, but I can\u2019t\u2013 I can\u2019t get whether it\u2019s\u2013 Oh, I see. Cross? Who is Cross? Ena? Is it Ena Cross? (pause) Who is this? (pause) Ena Cross. Will you wave the hand, please? There, I can see you in the aisle, standing (tape edit) there please. I must write down some things, please. Hands clasped. (Pause) You\u2019re a stranger to me, but I want to tell you something about your life. Did you once have a dog named Ping-Toe? Or something like that? Is that correct? Will you wave your hand? Hands clasped. (pause) Hands clasped. Keep our hands clasped together, please. (pause) (tape edit) Sister, now\u2013 I was\u2013 uh, someone else I had to speak to her about because they\u2019ll come in on me from different points\u2013 the thoughts will come in. You have an uh, you had a\u2013\u00ad (Pause) a parrot by the name of Laura? What is it? (Pause) I can\u2019t hear it.<\/p>\n

Voices of audience:<\/strong> (several repeating name, inaudible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, I could\u2013 that could be, because I\u2019m trying to pick up\u2013 from through the mixed multitude. Hands clasped. You have no children. (pause) Is that correct? (pause) Did your mother\u2013 Did your mother suffer from high blood pressure when she was alive? Was your mother\u2019s name Lydia? Yes, well, then she surely did.<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> Yes, yes.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Hands clasped. You are having difficulty around in the back and the side and the bowel region. If you will step forward, you too will receive a healing. If you\u2019ll come by me, I think if you\u2019ll try and go to a bathroom, if they\u2019ll lead you to someone around here, you too will pass something, as others have passed here today, just believing, just believing,<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> Oh, thank you!<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013and the spirit of Christ will have his way.<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> Oh, good God, good God, good God. Oh, my God\u2019s done just what he said\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (joins singer) \u2013yes he did, yes he did\/ He healed the sick and he raised the dead.\/ Yes he did, yes he did.\/<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> He brought joy, joy, joy to my soul.\/ Oh, I could tell the world about this, I could tell the nation (sound punctuated by breaks) with\u2013 that\u2013 tell them my God in a body has done, and he\u2019s brought joy, joy, joy\/ Oh, our God\u2019s done just what he said\/ Yes he did, yes he did.\/ Healed the sick and he raises the de\u2013 (tape edit) Joy, joy, joy, to our soul. Oh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (speaks) Now, if I can, I\u2019ll move down these aisles, but you must\u2013 must not push<\/em> us\u2013 uh, push<\/em> me aside or others aside, I\u2019ll\u2013 I\u2019ll be led to go to you<\/em>. (Pause) Your name is Isaacs, you must\u2013 (to himself) I must write that down before I forget it. (Pause)
\n(speaks to congregation) If your name is Ramos, please put your hand out to me and identify yourself. Ramos? I\u2013 All right, as our hands goes\u2013 as I move by, I must have liberty to speak to the nurses or the doctor students to give you instructions that you\u2019ll need. We have to move rapidly, because church services are due to begin here in just a little while. The next service we\u2019ll plan a bigger facility if that is the\u2013 in the plan that will be the best for Guyana, we will\u2013 \u2018cause we deeply<\/em> want to help the churches in this great country. One person, I don\u2019t know whether I should mention his name, I don\u2019t think I will, but someone in your government, I saw such love and character, f\u2013 such concern for human beings. And he picked up passerbys [passersby] in his car. And that touched<\/em> me so, but that\u2019s why I came back to Guyana. I had a whole hour with people that\u2013 you couldn\u2019t even get s\u2013 15 minutes with some people, if you\u2019d wait a year, in just a moment\u2019s (tape edit) they came in, they welcomed us in to talk about what we could do to help with the feeding and clothing and housing of this great country. So we\u2019re deeply moved by Guyana, and we\u2019re permanently settled now, there\u2019re many up in Kaituma, we had a great feast<\/em> there. The whole city<\/em>, uh, the entire area came out, and we served a free banquet just a couple of days ago.<\/p>\n

Voice in distance:<\/strong> Right!<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>And we\u2019ll be doing a lot of things in Guyana. We hope that you will invite us into your lives and to share with us any ideas how we can better serve. If you want to write us in [the] States, it\u2019s Peoples Temple, Post Office Box 214, Redwood Valley, California. Now let me move through the aisle. (tape edit) There\u2019s a woman that came with great faith by the name of (tape edit) that sort\u2013 Rhoda. Rhoda. You<\/em> must put up your hand, too, that I can reach you. Hands clasped, please. Hold this, please. (pause) Clarice Dugan or Dugan? Rhoda Hedley. Ida Asbrook? (Pause) Henry something. J \u2013 C<\/em> J is the last\u2013 is the initials.<\/p>\n

Norman Ijames:<\/strong> As the bishop moves through, please make a little aisle so that we can get through with the nurses who\u2019ll be following him.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Would you allow me to move freely, and if you have faith, according to your faith, be it unto you. Let us see, what\u2013 what is a song that we could sing, it\u2018d be simply, as we could sing it in the background, and I <\/em>will single you out and I\u2019ll send a nurse or a doctor uh, to you, the uh\u2013 I\u2019ll send them to you. These are all trained people in our church, because we educate all of our own youth. And whatever I feel, I\u2019ll\u2013 I\u2019ll send<\/em> them to you. As I say, I\u2019m not a panacea<\/em>. But we\u2019ve had great, marvelous miracles. We\u2019ve seen every miracle that was recorded in biblical times, and some that were not recorded. Only believe, only believe. It seems this\u2013 rather than goodness, healing<\/em> depends upon some kind of mystic belief. (Pause) (sings) All things are possible.<\/p>\n

(end of side 1)<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

(side 2) <\/strong><\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013to you that I\u2019m sure about what I\u2019m doing, and I\u2019m sure of the operation of the power to heal, so allow me that freedom to move, and many are healed just by touching, because according to your faith, be it unto you. If you just touch<\/em>, or just look, great, great miracles take place, according to your ability and mine to visualize. It has nothing to do with education. In fact, sometimes education can be a hindrance. It takes a childlike faith. So as I move up and down these aisles, it is our prayer, oh mighty God, (calls out) Oh, mighty Christ\u2013<\/p>\n

Archies Ijames:<\/strong> Oh yeah, yeah!<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013that the spirit of love will touch and reach out to these beloved people of this great Guyanese republic. Reach out and heal them, and touch them, to enable them to serve and do the most important<\/em> work of the gospel, to feed and to clothe, and to house, to minister to the orphans and widows in their affliction, (tape edit) stranger, and the homeless. We ask your blessings now, in the name of Christ. Amen.<\/p>\n

Norman Ijames: <\/strong>Please make a aisleway so the pastor can get through. (tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013\u2018cause when you tell me something, it begins to\u2013 Shh! It begins to hinder my faith, when you start telling me<\/em> things. So don\u2019t tell me anything, or don\u2019t pull me aside, because selfishness will not gain you anything, and I know how desperate<\/em> we are. And as I say, that\u2019s why I want\u2013 we must not let spiritual or physical healing be our uppermost concern. I know the desperate feeling we all have. But it\u2019s your faith<\/em> in the living God, in Christ in you, that makes things possible. Not what I do, but your faith. And we do<\/em> want, if there was only one<\/em> healed, or the one that we\u2019ve seen pass the growth, or the one that was bleeding from the urine, the one that had this urological problem, or the one that was arthritic, and the woman that had the crippled knee on my right, and the one that was crippled on my left. If only those<\/em> were healed! But I haven\u2019t begun to mention those that\u2019ve been healed already. If only one were healed in this great Catholic church today, it\u2019d be worth our gathering here, and I\u2019m sure if our faith is what it should be, there\u2019ll be many more.<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> Yes, yes, yes, yes.<\/p>\n

Norman Ijames:<\/strong> Please prepare an aisleway down to the center of the auditorium. Please move to the side and let (tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013receive a thing. The teachings<\/em> of Christ, or Krishna, Buddha, Gautama Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, all<\/em> the great teachers, the master teachers and the saviour, Jesus Christ, taught self-denial. Deny<\/em> ourselves. Personally I never seek<\/em> healing. That\u2019s always been my answer, and I\u2019ve had wonderful healings, but I never seek<\/em> healing. I seek to serve. And when we deny ourself, then things happen. This is a sweet attitude, and you\u2019ve<\/em> received a healing. This sister didn\u2019t push. She didn\u2019t say me a word\u2013 tell me a word. But you have a bad heart. You also had trouble in your female region. And you\u2019re going to be healed today, because you came, and your faith, and your humbleness\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> Amen! Amen.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013and your honesty has made you whole.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> Hallelujah.<\/p>\n

Singers:<\/strong> Only believe, only believe (tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013healed<\/em> of an incurable ailment, because she listened. Now please, let me move through with my medical team. And you touch me. I\u2019m coming back, I know definitely I\u2019ll be here for\u2013 uh, for services Easter week, and I may be here earlier. I\u2019ll be coming several times a year, and one day, I hope to settle in this great land. Because I love<\/em> Guyana. Bless you. And according to your faith, be it unto you.<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> Only be\u2013 (tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013because you were gentle and kind. And that was why you\u2019re<\/em> healed. Another healing\u2013 But every time you push and shove, you will not be able to get what you\u2019re looking for. I have<\/em> to see the names that I called. I don\u2019t mind if you pull on my clothes, but if you do<\/em>\u2013 if you do<\/em>, you\u2019ll miss<\/em> what you are do\u2013 what you want to receive. The\u2013 The cord will have to go up over our heads. (pause) We have to have a line. (pause) (tape edit) This Indian sister\u2013<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> (softly) Only believe\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013will be healed because her faith, her love.<\/p>\n

Singer:<\/strong> (softly) \u2013 only believe\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Blessings.<\/p>\n

(End Part 1) <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Part 2:<\/strong><\/p>\n

(Note on Part 2: The balance of the tape consists of a strategy discussion which Jim Jones held with several of his leaders. The fact that the recording quality is poor, that numerous people talk over each other, and that there is at least one speaker \u2013 possibly two \u2013 with thick Guyanese accents, mean that much of it is incomprehensible. The transcript which follows reflects the portions which the transcriber and the reviewer can verify. With that in mind, we invite anyone who can recognize additional dialogue in this part of the tape to submit it to this website<\/a>.)<\/em><\/p>\n

Voices:<\/strong> (too soft) (tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Let it be known, that we were here by the invitation of the government so they\u2019ll do some checking before they decide to run a negative article. I think that\u2019s fair to (unintelligible) the government has some control of (unintelligible word) of those papers now.<\/p>\n

Male: <\/strong>OK.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Don\u2019t you think? What do you think?<\/p>\n

Indistinct voices<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Yep. I agree.<\/p>\n

(pause)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>I was\u2013 I was\u2013 I was\u2013 I was here before Dr. [Ptolemy] Reid in, (unintelligible sentence) we were in from the invitation of Dr. Reid, and\u2013 or, I don\u2019t know, at the invitation of the government, that\u2019s (unintelligible words) at the invitation of the government (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> Ah.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> The only thing is\u00ad\u2013 The only thing is, is that I think we have to say it in the way that avoids the connotation that the\u2013 the meeting itself, the religious aspect was at the connotation of the government, because the PM\u2019s always putting down religion, you know, he\u2019s sarcastices the government (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> The only reason (unintelligible word) he\u2019s sarcastic, is what you\u2019re saying?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Well, wish I could remember exactly what he (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Yeah, Yes, \u2018cause like now, your Bible says. Not our bible, but your<\/em> Bible says\u2013<\/p>\n

(unintelligible exchanges)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) two people, they\u2019re hurting. Over the weekend, what\u2013 what was it there? When we were up there?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> It was uh, (unintelligible) in Matthews Ridge. Very definitely, it was.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> It was.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Huh?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> It was. Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Wish you guys (unintelligible) that\u2019s what I need to hear, is the whole ti\u2013 side of the story. One moment he\u2019s sarcastic, another moment he\u2019s pro, so\u2013 (pause) Prime Minister.<\/p>\n

Female:<\/strong> Oh, I didn\u2019t\u2013<\/p>\n

Mike Prokes:<\/strong> Yeah, I think he might be usin\u2019 it still as\u2013 as a tool while not being caught up in it himself. Uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He\u2019s not caught up (unintelligible) I want\u2013 I wanna find out what he\u2019s doin\u2019<\/em>. I\u2019ve come in there twice<\/em> for a meeting (unintelligible, trails off) he, he\u2019s referred to us as, ah, ahh\u2013<\/p>\n

Richard Tropp:<\/strong> Today there was a group there from the Assemblies of God who made the same comment about the government\u2013 they\u2013 uh, the guy said uses the word Christ uh, too sarcas\u2013 uh, sarcas\u2013 sarcastically. That\u2019s not serious\u2013 he\u2019s not serious about it. They were very negative of the Assemblies of God people\u2013<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> The very fact that he uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Are they Indian or black?<\/p>\n

Tropp:<\/strong> No, they were\u2013 they were East\u2013 yeah, East Indian.<\/p>\n

(unintelligible exchanges)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Huh?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> (unintelligible) means that he\u2019s not uh, very\u2013 very religious.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I know he\u2019s not, but I wonder what he\u2019s aiming at, you know. I\u2019ve got to find out what the man\u2019s aiming at. We\u2019ve got to know what his strategy is. We\u2019ve got a lot of power<\/em>, too. That\u2019s if he\u2019s (stumbles over words) legalizing, obey, obie\u2013<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> Obeah.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Obay. Obeah, yeah. So we need to get the sucker. We need to tell him that the government<\/em>\u2013 we\u2019ve met with the government on a high level. On a high level, that we\u2019re here, we were\u2013 our agricultural mission was here on the invitation of the uh, Guyanese government<\/em>. So these suckers don\u2019t walk within our article, we\u2019ve got a Catholic sister\u2019s being very sar\u2013 sarcastic already, going around making smart remarks. So uh, we need to have some means of response<\/em> to that. And I\u2019ve got one in an interview with me, I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s entirely proper<\/em>, uh\u2013 or an interview with two of these, couple or three calls, and say the pastor had been there to meet you. He would\u2013 he said he would<\/em> meet with you, he\u2019s sorry we didn\u2019t get to you. Are there any other questions you might have<\/em>? He goes back today.<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> They\u2019ll ask you\u2013 they\u2019ll ask me uh, point blank who in government, not some (unintelligible) without saying whose name it is and you know (unintelligible) and all the various ministers name of our project, and\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You say<\/em>, all the various ministers, yeah, and \u2013<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> \u2013we have been well received, well received, everywhere.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, then, who\u2019s going to meet\u2013 meet this, because this is a touchy baby tomorrow. (Pause) I don\u2019t want one person, I don\u2019t want one person doin\u2019 it\u2013<\/p>\n

Terry:<\/strong> I\u2019d say Mike Prokes, Paula Adams, and Karen Layton.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You got all, you got no blacks in there\u2013<\/p>\n

(voices)<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> John Brown.<\/p>\n

Adams:<\/strong> John Brown.<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> And uh\u2013 and we should not prejudice our base, and our, our\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Norman {Ijames}, I\u2019d say Norman. I\u2019d say Norman. J\u2013 uh, J\u2013 John\u2019s good on P.R., but you embellish<\/em> too much. Someway, you embellish. Uh, today I don\u2019t see it, but I don\u2019t know what you\u2013 what you said, but there was something. That\u2019s what got her shook up\u2013 Huh?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> He said, that uh, would you clear the doorway? Because there\u2019s still hundreds outside, and\u2013 .<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah. That\u2013 that was\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2013 I thought, hundreds outside, man, what\u2019re you doin\u2019? Who told you there\u2019s hundreds outside? (pause)<\/p>\n

Voices:<\/strong> John Brown? John Brown isn\u2019t here.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He isn\u2019t here, huh? (unintelligible word) Sixteen blocks away. (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> And also, this thing about um, the uh, it could be a prophecy\u2013<\/p>\n

Voice:<\/strong> Turns out\u2013 (unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> It could be a bit of prophecy in the rain. See when the\u2013 when he\u2019s involved with the laymen, it\u2019s gonna pour down rain.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What\u2019s he said what he said? He said what?<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> He uses the night before the rain, as it, and then\u2013 then he uses it to think if you are of prophetic capacity, the fact that it\u2019s pour down rain, just as it (unintelligible word) something couldn\u2019t come in, or just would pour down rain, think of your prophetic capacity, well uh\u2013 but as the layman would of seen, they would have seen it, if it\u2019s pour down rain, I\u2019ll ask for rain. And you say, you have company. So, so let in there with\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He uh\u2013 he don\u2019t consult before he steps forward. And that\u2019s what I don\u2019t like. I\u2013 I can\u2019t, I can\u2019t have that \u2013<\/p>\n

Adams: <\/strong>Norman told him to tell it.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Huh?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> He said Norman told him to tell it.<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> Told him to say that? Why didn\u2019t you tell him about that?<\/p>\n

(hubbub of voices, unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Proph\u2013 Proph\u2013 Prophecy was made, of course<\/em>. (Pause) Prophecy was made, whether you say it or not.<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> I understand. (pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Did Joy and David enjoy their trip? Just like we did in the Sacramento Bee<\/em>. Say well, we\u2013 we don\u2019t uh, believe in God. And that\u2019s my (unintelligible), don\u2019tgo overboard that<\/em> way. We made one mistake. Sacramento Bee<\/em> wrote up a very good article about our healings, and just said we don\u2019t believe in God. That don\u2019t help us none.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I hate to interrupt with this, but I gotta get going (unintelligible) all that luggage off the boat.<\/p>\n

(voices, unintelligible\u2013) (tape edit)<\/p>\n

Adams:<\/strong> We don\u2019t have absolute (unintelligible word) We have a provisional lease\u2013<\/p>\n

(tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013around this. Who you can go to? Tell them the problem, what we got. He\u2019s got an in\u2013 interest in the\u2013 in his work, due to the sacrifice of somebody, so find out what\u2013 what uh, he<\/em> suggests. If we can\u2019t just go ahead and give our plan ourselves<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Jim, may I be excused?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yes. yes.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> I hate to leave now, I really do \u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Who\u2019s goin\u2019 with you? [Tom] Grubbs?<\/p>\n

Prokes:<\/strong> Grubbs?<\/p>\n

(unintelligible voices, distant)<\/p>\n

Guyanese male:<\/strong> (Patois) I think you told her what today it, let me pass. She will probably be able to sort \u2018em. I don\u2019t see any reason why the CIA\u2019s here. The United States is a country and the (unintelligible) to the states, for example, medical attention, so, I don\u2019t see it in carried out throughout the world for long, I mean, I could be wrong but I don\u2019t see anything.<\/p>\n

Adams:<\/strong> What if he comes back?<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Huh?<\/p>\n

Adams:<\/strong> When will he be back (fades off)<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> I don\u2019t have the foggiest idea (emphatically).<\/p>\n

(pause) (mixed voices, brief snatches of indistinct conversation, people moving around.)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013 both these newpapers are governmental-owned, aren\u2019t they now?<\/p>\n

Guyanese official:<\/strong> My (unintelligible) right here, (noises near mic). Uh, do you want to be present? You want to know? You want to get in touch with the editor of the (unintelligible name)?<\/p>\n

(several unintelligible exchanges)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You know we had a big meeting here today, and packed Sacre\u2013 Sacred Heart. Packed it out\u2013 out into the outer lawn, and we want to maybe, we want to express the (unintelligible word) of our Agricultural Mission so they won\u2019t just emphasize the church aspects alone.<\/p>\n

Guyanese official: <\/strong>Well, that would\u2013 that\u2019d be best done by (emphatic) talkin\u2019. Don\u2019t worry yourselves. You gotta, (unintelligible) do, let me get the right people here to get it done. When you want to talk with him?<\/p>\n

(pause)<\/p>\n

Unknown female:<\/strong> When d\u2019you want to talk to him? He can get the right people to get it done.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You that are in journalism, there, ought to talk to him. You\u2019re as\u2013<\/p>\n

Adams:<\/strong> You\u2013 you left it open.<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> If he\u2019d a give you audience, you open (unintelligible name), he\u2019s a man in charge of this situa\u2013<\/p>\n

(unintelligible exchange)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That\u2019s right\/ You know what? We don\u2019t want an article based on religion right now. I don\u2019t think we do! We want it in the context of what we\u2019re expected to do. The agricultural mission\u2013 they were very impressed about some of the things we achieved today, some of the healings<\/em> that were achieved, but that\u2019s not\u2013 that\u2019s not why we\u2019re in Guyana. We\u2019re here to help with the uh, (pause) food, clothing and housing program.<\/p>\n

(long pause)<\/p>\n

(low unintelligible exchanges)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> As I understand it, the uh, only thing\u2019s holding us up is that agro-economist is forced<\/em>, to (stumbles over words) build with something, the government will have something to acknowledge. Is that correct?<\/p>\n

Guyanese: <\/strong>Has anybody spoken to the (unintelligible) and his son?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yep. I\u2019m going in\u2013 I\u2019m going in tomorrow. But I\u2019d like to have a little background, rather than show myself to be an ignoramus, which I am at this point.<\/p>\n

Guyanese: <\/strong>(Laughs)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 do you have, I have a meeting with him at 9 o\u2019clock tomorrow, Mr. [Gavin] Kennard. But, I want to know what we\u2019re doing, and what\u2013 what is our holdup<\/em>. Also, why on, why has our church not been incorporated? What\u2019s the reason for that? Mr. [Eugene] Chaikin at the meeting, Paula\u2013 why hasn\u2019t our church \u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese: <\/strong>Ah. You have uh, time Tuesday?<\/p>\n

Adams:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Guyanese: <\/strong>That is not to work, even if he change his (unintelligible)? Mark and Martin.<\/p>\n

Adams:<\/strong> Eric and Martin. The other (unintelligible), and for a very simple reason, is he\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He told me that before. I\u2019m told that you work with (unintelligible name) before.<\/p>\n

Guyanese: <\/strong>Because, uh, as far as I know, Guaranty was a good corporation lawyer, (unintelligible name) so tenable for his integrity of our position, to what length, that state we are in. He is important, responsible for how the government it would take us without an internationalizations, at the time. And whenever there is a\u2013 a time for a dividend to the state, this program has to pay our con\u2013 for the activists\u2019 proposal out the property. See? He\u2019s got (unintelligible), and goes to Canada to do that business. So, when he has that to do, the Caymans are closed, and he know cooperation (unintelligible). Don\u2019t operate as an (unintelligible word), it\u2019s not in a form, like he gives us the briefs to somebody else. He lets it wait until you come back. In\u2013 In other words, you\u2019re not printin\u2019 the brief.<\/p>\n

Adams:<\/strong> But\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese: <\/strong>And if I were in his place, I wouldn\u2019t print it, either. I\u2019d go out and drink bon port, and then, come out, in the shore (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Adams: <\/strong>What do you think of\u2013 of uh, changing right now?<\/p>\n

Guyanese: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know what the position would be. He might be definable to stay out of that country, it could be ethical or not professional, I don\u2019t know. What is\u2013 what is Clarence telling you about the incorporation, about the\u2013 about the state of delay. In other words, have you seen anything in the official digest saying that it\u2019s late, before filing it?<\/p>\n

Adams: <\/strong>They just sent it back for the last correction before it goes to into the (unintelligible), and it\u2019s not supposed to go through, but how long does\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese: <\/strong>Now let me get into the officials on about that, too. Because it\u2019s just a practically received. Because these things are automatic. They get the letter, placed with some member of the house, of Parliament, to propose it, probably one of the junior members of the house, and it goes to all (unintelligible word) at that time. This is the longest waiting period. But this is only one more correction for it to get into the\u2013 (unintelligible) got there before. Once you get into the directory, at least in Parliament and then it\u2019s relatively easy to present. But uh, how long is it since you briefed Clarence, too, for the incorporation?<\/p>\n

Adams: <\/strong>From the very start? Or\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese: <\/strong>Yes, how long is it been?<\/p>\n

Adams: <\/strong>Since last February.<\/p>\n

Guyanese: <\/strong>Nah. That long.<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> That\u2019s too long, man.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> But Dr. Reid, every report what we get back is most sympathetic, verbally.<\/p>\n

Guyanese: <\/strong>Mmm.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> But what I can\u2019t get (unintelligible word), with a half a million dollars already poured in\u2013 into this program. I\u2019ve got to know what I\u2019m doing.<\/p>\n

(unintelligible exchanges)<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> This question of the\u2013 of these\u2013 farm (unintelligible), I\u2019m\u2013 I won\u2019t commit myself at this time, because you\u2019re going to find when you speak to the present minister, that he has a different outlook to Dr. Reid. Now when\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What\u2013 what do you mean?<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Well, about the formalities, you know, on procedures involvement. Uh, Dr. Reid\u2019s general attitude is to proceed on logic and see. In other words, if\u2013 if he was satisfied with what he saw, at Kaituma, he would say go ahead and assume (unintelligible) on the basis of what you are saying.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> So\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Whilst he was satisfied that way, and even if he didn\u2019t see it forcefully (unintelligible) anybody for a report, honest. It means that he was going to be prepared to ask for what you told him.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Mm-hmm [Yes].<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Provided there was no objection from you. If for the sake of argument, (unintelligible name) said that he didn\u2019t take the pictures for (unintelligible). You know.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) was in the service today, very impressed I guess. (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Ah! And if you tell him that that is not an accurate report, what (unintelligible name) is saying is not an accurate report, well, then I think Dr. Reid would go to see for himself. But if what (same name) was quoted to him, reported what he said, he would get to see, and if you believe, pending the arrival or the formation of this plan, bearing in mind that you gave it to local party to do, and you also gave it to the only agricultural economist we have in the ministry! We don\u2019t have any other, that\u2019s the only one. He is the only partner.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Man not down there\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Nobody else.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> We\u2019ve given operation.<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Yes, he\u2019s the only partner that you do have. Uh, well, (Clears throat) And that is the reason why I suggested that the report should be made to him, if the chief agricultural officer is insisting on this farm plan.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, today we had a number of instances, we had hundreds and hundreds of people there, about, it was up to 2,000 people all around the place. Uh, do we have the\u2013 Our people found themselves in the position of defending the government a considerable time. Do you think the government is (unintelligible word), the last time they (unintelligible word) safe still, they admit the government is safe.<\/p>\n

Guyanese: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think he got any doubts about that.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And wouldn\u2019t they not want people who are productive as we, for the government, up in the Northwest District? If I understand that, it\u2019ll be revert\u2013 it\u2019ll even revert to Venezuela, if there aren\u2019t so many uh, people settled there. I\u2013 I think that\u2019s\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Yes. Yeah, well from from the point of view of state political expediency alone, it\u2019s (unintelligible) nonproductive. (unintelligible) Remember that one of the basic foundations of the Venezuelan creed. They no longer fight to back up the finding of the international court, or the arbitration model at the time when the award was made. They go\u2013 They go on a different tack at this time. They are saying that we are willing and ready and able to develop this disputed territory. No, we\u2019re not just speaking about the Northwest District, we\u2019re speaking up to the left bank of the Essequibo River, (unintelligible) see? And, you are free. They accept it already in the United Nations, you\u2019re free to set (unintelligible), to see the difference between Venezuela on the left bank of the (unintelligible name) and Guyana on the right bank. They made then that they have made development on their side and we have nothing here. (pause) Well, our answer to that of course is that, so\u2013 As a matter of fact, I start in on warning you now, preliminary thoughts on this particular matter. Because I have some knowledge of the area, both sides. And I said that, if we are to sleep at all, we must first agree on a basic principle, and that is that, one, the center for comparison is a high degree of similarity. If similarity doesn\u2019t exist, they creating no basis for comparison, just contrast.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Mm-hm.<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> So, as far as economic ability to develop it (unintelligible) no comparison between Guyana and Venezuela. We\u2019re not (pause) crying over the fact that we don\u2019t have oil here, but what we are saying is that if we did, we probably could better at interior development than they do. Well, that is one of the things that we advance\u2013 finally (unintelligible phrase) advance in the 1980s against the Venezuelan army. Until then, it\u2019s not being brought again. But, a politician must always seem to fall back to (unintelligible word). And that is the reason why (unintelligible), Union Carbide, or\u2013 decided to pull out of Matthews Ridge. I myself, and a minority reporter was hired by the government at that time, to see what could be done about continuing operations in the mine. I have to explain to them that Union Carbide \u2013 for a fee \u2013 controls both the price and the property of manganese for (unintelligible). In other words, we\u2019ll get United States Steel, or get DMR, these are smaller subsidiary companies we get ignored by, if Union Carbide says no. And that is obviously what will happen. We don\u2019t have the (unintelligible word) expertise, and we do not have the follow up capital, the continuing operation of this is (unintelligible) manganese. When you\u2019re talking also (unintelligible balance of sentence) So we don\u2019t have that. So as far as the mine is concerned, that is out. Nobody asks any quarter\u2013 for any quarter information, but (unintelligible word) a political lever, to keep that play going, as a\u2013 as a\u2013 a good industrial concept. And as I said it has been a\u2013 a\u2013 an object of deficit financing from the word go. You take a big flight out of all the (unintelligible word) budget everything you hear of that and you just put precisely that reason that you need to do. (unintelligible sentence). In terms of agriculture productivity (unintelligible) what has been put into that area is three years old. You know. A person in the government, in politics, could never admit that because that would be tantamount to heresy, but I don\u2019t have to (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

(general laughter).<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Be the wrong people in the wrong place at the wrong time.<\/p>\n

(several other voices murmur acknowledgement)<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> So, if you have a group like yours that are obviously within the space of time, the relation, uh, their investments. I do not know \u2013 it may be so \u2013 but I fortunately do not know of any similar that society\u2013<\/p>\n

Joned:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> \u2013in this country or in any of the other countries in South America over the scale of time, taking into consideration the lack of experience, you know, the\u2013 the time factor for outside (unintelligible word), of making local contact, (unintelligible word) differential in\u2013 in spending half a million dollars in any developmental program that has to deal with agriculture. You must immediately have very conservative estimates as a result \u2013 at least 22 percent \u2013 for what we call the experience account. Not necessarily any money after you waste it, but buying X when the real thing that you should have bought was Y. (unintelligible word) between all of that you have to write down. (unintelligible) operations here. Lemme cut a long story short. What you are being able to do in the space of time that you will be here, is hundreds of percentage points better than anything that any state operation, organization, with the agronomists, the plant pathologists, the economists and (unintelligible) and the foreigners where you (trails off). And you won\u2019t have to take my word for it, because you don\u2019t need to be an expert. So what you have seen, what you have done, is take your time at Kaituma. All you have to do to (unintelligible) in my assessment, is stay (unintelligible word) go over last week, at the (unintelligible) hearing, say why the state farm must be (unintelligible) and pay all the state farmers\u2019 designation. Also have to run all over Guyana to see, as you will see, and when you go before the (unintelligible) how long have you been on it? You see? That\u2019s all. So. Insofar as that operation is \u2013 and I don\u2019t think that there\u2019ll be anybody who can \u2013 if you are of unbiased opinion about the progress that has been made so far, taking all the factors that I have mentioned into consideration, I\u2013 I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m not saying that you did well\u2013 it just can be\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ll be back. Compared to what I\u2019ve seen, certainly, we\u2019ve got a lot of property over there and compared to what I see. It\u2019s not like I woulda liked to had it done by our own vision, but compared to what\u2019s happening, as you say, I think you said it very accurately, as I\u2019ve always found you to be, we are doing more than these\u2013 any of the uh, (unintelligible word) that I\u2019ve seen.<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> And let\u2019s not\u2013 not, you see, this is the thing that the doctor understands, that\u2013 that this bureaucracy does not (unintelligible). That right (unintelligible) farm plan for acreages above a certain, you know, uh, level or something that will challenge a commitment, say, when they were writing it into the regulations, and the minority will challenge it, including myself, challenge it on the grounds that it would visit a certain class of people with (unintelligible word) that they couldn\u2019t readily handle. In other words, making the granting of the lease entirely dependent on an acceptable farm plan on paper. Because it could produce two types of people: Who would get access to land\u2013 state lands by lease. On the one, you could have the (unintelligible word), who is sincere and hard working, but who did not have easy access. Couldn\u2019t start a farm plan, but that their farm will accept trying a (unintelligible word).<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>That\u2019s our\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> If\u2013 if you saw some of the projections and plans to (unintelligible) (laughs) \u2013the relations to what we are asking to (unintelligible sentence) cocktail but you too (unintelligible word) forever.<\/p>\n

(laughter and unintelligible exchanges)<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> No, but if you didn\u2019t know\u2013 You know, if\u2013 if you\u2013 if you didn\u2019t have the skepticism of experiences I have, and know what actually happened in relation to what was said would happen there, you know, you would say that this is forfeiture of, you know, the stage is slow, one into the other, you know? So nothin\u2019! I mean, it\u2019s (unintelligible word). But it doesn\u2019t happen that way. It never does. You know. All this planning. You say, look, look, 50 acres of this? Is around one kind, pathologist, an agricultural engineer, an agronomist, an entymologist, and a field manager. See? Five. All good people for that (unintelligible word) and with these people you will do this, and you will do that, and you will do that, and you will do that. And all those people are qualified, but they have no capacity to participate. (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> I know\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> You know. And they find that, they have the rice imports, the side crop is not really not suitable. (unintelligible word) was the wrong one, he should have got some from North Africa instead of Venezuela, you know. Every single person sitting down to write a memo to exculpate himself from the blame (unintelligible under laughing) debacle, right? And then, last but not least, everybody (unintelligible sentence)\u2013 Our right to work.<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> I know\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> So it\u2019s just isn\u2019t ready on paper. And the same thing that was in the acreage remains (unintelligible). See? They figure it (stretches out word) all out. (unintelligible word) But they don\u2019t have any reasoning like, Act of God, natural disaster or nothing in there is\u2013 and I don\u2019t agree with it.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Do you see any problems that\u2013 that they would change what they have given us, verbal assurance that we will be accepted? Because I\u2013 I have to know. We\u2019ve got a great deal of wealth at stake in the States, (unintelligible word), are channeling more and more of it here. I like Guyana. Naturally we are a cosmopolitan, interracial group, it\u2019s better<\/em> for us. Is there any\u2013 By the way, do you see\u2013 you see, our government coming to uh, any kind of confrontation with this government over such things as rentals, uh, things changing here anymore.<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Not at all, (unintelligible word) affect anything you\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That\u2013 that\u2019s what I wanted to know. I thought you\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> I have. On the other question, I am really not a (unintelligible word), qualified to answer that, uh, because I do not have access to (pause) inner sanctum, which is the political center here, this (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

(laughs)<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> (unintelligible sentence)<\/p>\n

(laughs)<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> That could answer that question, is the man that you\u2019re gonna speak to tomorrow. I do not think that you ask\u2013 a per\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He\u2019s very friendly, he\u2019s very friendly, affable, but you know\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Well, but you don\u2019t need anybody friendly\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I, uh, I, I, \u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> \u2013as the time pass, (unintelligible sentence) you can get as many friends as you want, I\u2019ll treat you as one, depending on how much you are prepared to do for any of them! Everyone is like that! (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

(general laughter).<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> What have you prepared to do for him? I don\u2019t have any fear that somebody like Doctor Reid will do what he is telling you. Because he doesn\u2019t say anything that he doesn\u2019t mean. That\u2019s all. If he isn\u2019t sure about the-\u2013<\/p>\n

(several unintelligible exchanges)<\/p>\n

Becky Beikman: <\/strong>They dealt with him long ago.<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> I want to ask you one\u2013 one important question, another time that you mentioned what happened in (unintelligible name), and I\u2019ve had a\u2013 a deep concern about what\u2019s gonna happen, in terms of, in terms of bauxite, because if they got a plan worked out, or if some sort of alternative, an expensive alternative?<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Where\u2019s this\u2013 That\u2019s not a serious problem, with bauxite. For three reasons. The first is that the demand is much higher than the supply. Now you can get away with a lotta lotta forced equality when that condition exists. The second is that the projections on this demand, in relation to supply, is fairly constant, fairly constant and for the foreseeable future. And the third is that local people have worked at the key positions in the bauxite industry. Remember! In an industry like bauxite, the key position is not necessarily the decision-making level. Our problem is to have you\u2013 you can make the decisions at the operatin\u2019 level. Rather (unintelligible word) and local forces suggesting their decision-making structure. (unintelligible sentence) And the only reason for that was (unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

Archie Ijames:<\/strong> Sure.<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> So that is a reality which you have to see. Our (unintelligible phrase) started very late to do it, too late! And by and large, uh, the predictions that were made to the local bauxite concern have not come to pass. The Jeremiahs have been proven to be wrong. The operation that we (unintelligible word) run, is not as complex as you (unintelligible). And if you do it (unintelligible word) right now will mean that a lotta people would have died at field supervisor levels will get a chance to get to staff level. And you\u2019ll probably get a better crop of operators there as a result of this here, then you would have known about if they were allowed to remain at that one level. So if you don\u2019t, if they\u2013 if they do\u2013 if\u2013 I have told them<\/em>, that they did not (pause) look at this natural (unintelligible phrase) to with that in mind, forget about it. That is what you must believe. That is what you have to make happen. Don\u2019t let somebody call anybody home from Canada or United States (unintelligible word) when let us operate on what we have here now. Because the behavior of the (unintelligible phrase, could be \u201cPalestinians and Israelis\u201d) is a constant. Everybody knows horrible those in (unintelligible phrase)? You know how it started. (unintelligible sentence) The one<\/em> uncertain factor is the human element, that is what we have to look at. If we see, that we\u2013 what we have (unintelligible word), and the people who remain there promoted the starting position, can run that operation within a year or two, (unintelligible phrase) get accustomed to the new way of doing things, and we can make a whole way? OK. Otherwise than that? (unintelligible word) will go away. But you see that again, is\u2013 is\u2013 it\u2019s not the politicians\u2019 outlook. That is ground sort of talk as far as\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> There\u2019s a couple of questions I just need to get to because I figure you\u2019re a man of great expertise and information. The factory we\u2019re concerned about, the newspaper, some reporter there, a little fundamentalist, he\u2019s seemed to be friendly overall, but he wanted to question us on theology. We\u2019re very broad, we have several people there which is most threatening. As that one person said, will this even be threatening\u2013 one person suggested it would even be threatening to the government? But I think they were with the opposition party, we had such a mass following. Well, I can\u2019t see that that would be threatening, but we\u2019re\u2013 they\u2019re defending<\/em> the government, every\u2013 every turn of the road<\/em>, I would think they\u2019d be most happy<\/em> about that<\/em> experience. But this one little reporter might go back with his, uh, fundamentalist version, give us some bad press, unless we move on it. We never have any bad press, and we need to\u2013 we need to move<\/em> on it, and stop<\/em> it \u2013 a stitch in time saves nine \u2013 and uh, I think we uh\u2013 he seemed to be overly\u2013 over\u2013 overtly impressed<\/em>. But uh, I just thought we need to get the right people. It\u2019s hardly likely with government-controlled papers, that they\u2019re going to go too opp\u2013 uh, too much in opposition to anything that is relating effectively to the country, wouldn\u2019t you think?<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> I don\u2019t see much of a problem there. I agree that uh, in the situation in that being put \u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> (unintelligible sentence) you know, that can be done.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> No, no, there will be bad press. It\u2019s just the\u2013 just the\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> (unintelligible sentence) There\u2019s nothing wrong with that. On the other questions, I say, you tell Minister Kennard just what you told me. And let him see your own position. You know, the one thing hinges on the other. You can\u2019t get one without the other.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, who should we call about the news\u2013 newspaper? Because the one down there\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> I think that on the Chronicle you should get Tom Harper (unintelligible for several sentences)<\/p>\n

(mixed voices, unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Well, while you got everybody, so now we getting Henry Harpo\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Harper?<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> What? As far as the Graphic<\/em> [newspaper] is concerned, I\u2019m out of touch there. (unintelligible sentence)<\/p>\n

Buford:<\/strong> Monte Smith?<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Yeah. I\u2013 I wrote it down there. Now, I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m trying to find out what is the best way to arrange this (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I uh\u2013 See anything wrong with my instructions, put it in. I would go to the\u2013 to state that we want, I would put more of an emphasis upon what we\u2019re doing in the agricultural (unintelligible) mission, which is considerable, (unintelligible) thirty different crops growing that I saw, and that uh, some of the reporters were by, we appreciate their friendliness, uh, we just want\u2013 uh, we were here at the invitation of Dr. Reid, and by the government, and uh, just chat. No one attempts to be censorous of the press, but uh, I don\u2019t want them to get off on theological (unintelligible word) because we have the\u2013 some people said we had the largest crowd they\u2019d ever seen, and we need to get their opinion at the time, which I think we\u2019re not\u2013 We\u2019re going to avoid that, we\u2019re not even incorporating as a church, unfortunately, I didn\u2019t take any offering for the agricultural mis\u2013 mission. Uh, I just suggested, if people want to give any money, to send it to the school of agriculture here. (unintelligible word). So we have taken no money. The church was pouring thousands and thousands of dollars into this country. But I think you\u2013 so\u2013 you solidified my thought and given me the affirmation that I wanted. But tomorrow I\u2019m going to present my dilemma to<\/em> the Minister of Agriculture, we have to have something here\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> (unintelligible sentence) at the embassy, and then, before they, uh\u2013 make the press release, uh, you will probably have left by then. But I\u2019ll get the, uh, the copy of what you said (unintelligible) printed to it \u2013 you know, your people here saw (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Male: <\/strong>(unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> (unintelligible phrase) That\u2019s the advantage of living in a small, backwards country.<\/p>\n

(loud laughter)<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> (unintelligible phrase)<\/p>\n

Buford:<\/strong> You mean today? You mean, uh, stop it today?<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

Buford:<\/strong> \u2013\u2018cause it\u2019s running tomorrow, so\u2013<\/p>\n

Guyanese:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know what they are, printing today, but I can stop that. (unintelligible phrase) he will call back\u2013 see if he\u2013<\/p>\n

Mixed voices:<\/strong> Great! I\u2013 it looked like it was\u2013 d\u2019you know what?<\/p>\n

(End of tape)<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Annotated Tape Transcript, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1,\u00a0Pt. 2). (Note: This tape was transcribed by Kathryn Barbour. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":470,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-77972","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/77972","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=77972"}],"version-history":[{"count":7,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/77972\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":108338,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/77972\/revisions\/108338"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=77972"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}