{"id":77975,"date":"2018-02-05T11:25:26","date_gmt":"2018-02-05T19:25:26","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=77975"},"modified":"2018-02-06T10:37:20","modified_gmt":"2018-02-06T18:37:20","slug":"q868-transcript","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=77975","title":{"rendered":"Q868 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3<\/a>.<\/p>\n

(Note:<\/strong> This tape was one of the 53 tapes initially withheld from public disclosure.)<\/em><\/p>\n

Side 1 is blank<\/strong><\/p>\n

Side 2:<\/strong><\/p>\n

(Movement of microphone for several moments)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Um-hmm [yes]. Okay, just a minute. (tape edit) Um, she had some disagreement with the situation of the learning, and she didn\u2019t know how her just, um, dissolving, or, you know, whatever could have any effect on, uh, you meeting Ellie [spelled Eli in FBI notes, but pronounced here as Ellie]. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(on other end of radio transmission) I disa\u2013 I agree with her on that. She must not be in touch. We have all of two in that (unintelligible word) tutorial program now, and they\u2019re under special, special\u2013 I agree with her. I have to, I have to agree with her here.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> (in room with Female 1, in hushed tone) He has all of two under that program.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> He has uh\u2013 He has all of two under that program right now.<\/p>\n

Male 1: <\/strong>And he has to agree with (unintelligible word).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Ellie understand that, though. We\u2019ve already checked that out. Ellie understands.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> And Ellie understands the situation.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> We\u2019ve already checked that out.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> We\u2019ve already checked that out.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Not in full detail, but, uh, understand.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Not in full detail<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Yeah, I understand, full detail, but they do understand.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (same time as Female above) Understand that, you know, of\u2013 of the need for a\u2013 a good teaching program.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Understand there\u2019s a need for a good teaching program.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> We under\u2013 We understand the need for a teaching program. (20 second pause) Hold on. Um, she said she agreed on that too, but under some circumstances it was too involved, like with Laura. Over.<\/p>\n

(10 second pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I totally agree.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> I totally agree.<\/p>\n

(10 second pause, lots of jostling of microphone, no other sound)<\/p>\n

Unknown female at recording end:<\/strong> (too far from microphone, unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t that it was. Then it happens (unintelligible) at that crucial time (unintelligible). Do you copy?<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> It was just that she had done it at that crucial time, and with whom she had done it. Roger.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Tell her that.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> It was just at a very crucial time when she had done it, and that was the whole\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) She is now a supervisor\u2013<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> And she\u2019s now\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013that shows you to what degree. I thought there was overreaction (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> (same time as Jones) And she\u2019s now\u2013 And she\u2019s now a supervisor, and that\u2019s to what degree he thought there was overreaction.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013if it would help her to talk to her. I don\u2019t\u2013<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> He said if it would help uh, for you to talk to her, you know, talk\u2013<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> He knows where (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Because he knows\u2013 (pause) Um-hm. (pause) No, he\u2013 th\u2013 and that was one\u2013 okay, that was one of the things that he did<\/em> say is he believed in your character. But anyway, hold on, let me\u2013 Uh. (Pause) I want to tell him the part that you said you hadn\u2019t (unintelligible phrase). Hold on. (pause) Um, she said she had not said anything to anybody, that she had not changed that much. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, why doesn\u2019t\u2013 why don\u2019t she then just come back and have more faith in her dad.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> He said why don\u2019t you just come back and have more faith in your dad. (10 second pause) Huh?<\/p>\n

(5 second pause)<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Because, she said, as y\u2013 as you said, she\u2019s too paranoid. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, then I don\u2019t know. But I know one thing, down the way, I know<\/em> her. I did not mistrust Grace\u2019s experience that she had (unintelligible) the experience that she had. She knows the trust, if she\u2019ll stop to think. Do you copy?<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> He places\u2013<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> He said with the places and experiences that you had, you know to trust, and to just stop and think. (50 second pause) She said she knows, she knows, and she just\u2013 she said, I\u2019m sorry, but\u2013 Uh, she did<\/em> think it would be better with Ellie, and that, would, uh, Stanley<\/em> is too isolated, and he cannot communicate to anyone. And uh, she feels that it would be better if uh\u2013 If he visited Ellie, at least he would be able to say what he had to say. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I have been told by Ellie, has she been able\u2013 in the traffic, I was told by Ellie not<\/em> to do that until I got assurances from Oscar. Do you copy?<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Roger. Stand by. (pause) Okay.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

(30 second pause)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Nobody in this whole place knows. (pause) Hm? (pause) Uh-huh. (pause) Oh. Okay. (pause) Okay, is it\u2013 \u2019Cause I have to go over to the radio. I mean\u2013 Okay, hold on. Okay, uh, (pause) she said that Nick mentioned (clears throat) that they know about Shirley and Nettie, uh, not the intricate, but just the, uh, evening spent. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I misun\u2013 I didn\u2019t understand what she said there. Negative copy.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Nick said that they knew about Shirley and Nettie\u2013 not the intricate, but uh, just about the evening spent together. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yes, what else? What else did uh, (unintelligible) things that, of Dexter\u2019s, Dexter\u2019s, the things that they say with Dexter. Do you copy?<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> (in hushed tone) (unintelligible) Radio codes. Why did she mention the radio codes?<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Oh yeah, he said\u2013 he said okay, but why did they mention\u2013 what was their\u2013 I mean, why was there a mention about the, uh, things with Dexter? Did he\u2013 Did he say anything about Dexter? (pause) Hm. Okay.<\/p>\n

Female 2:<\/strong> (very faint, over telephone, unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Female 2:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 (pause) Anyway. Uh\u2013 Whenever\u2013 were you there when\u2013 when, uh\u2013 (pause)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Hm? (pause)<\/p>\n

Female 2:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Female 2:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Female 2:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> We mentioned they thought it was all over town. (pause) Oh, okay, hold on. (pause) Um, she said he didn\u2019t mention anything about that, just that, like when Anne was there one time, and he said something about, uh, he\u2019d seen them all over\u2013 all over\u2013 all around this area. Um, stand by. (Addressing people in room) I\u2019m not sure I understand. Oh.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Oh, no, she (unintelligible) changing something. She said they was changing something. That\u2019s what I was interested in. (pause) She musta had a reason for saying that.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> He said that\u2013 He said that he saw that? (10 second pause) He said he saw the thing about Dexter? I\u2019m sorry, I just\u2013 Just say it one more time and he\u2019ll understand. Okay. (pause) All right. (unintelligible) (door opens and closes) (microphone jostled) Um-hmm. (pause) Just a minute. Okay (unintelligible) maybe (microphone jostled) (unintelligible). Uh, she said that it came from her\u2013 I thought that it came from the guy that reads the paperbacks that Rachel brings to him. Something (unintelligible) Hopalong. Over. (unintelligible) (Addressing people in room) Is Hopalong a name of the thing? (door opens and closes)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 You mean he\u2019s the one, he\u2019s the one that says about committees\u2013 committees?<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Uh, roger. Stand by. (Addressing people in room) He just\u2013 He mentioned something about\u2013 Uh\u2013 (10 second pause) Okay, but Anne was there when that\u2013 that conversation came up? (10 second pause) Yeah. That\u2019s the type of thing that came up. That\u2019s why you mentioned something about Dexter today. Yeah, this morning about, to change the way (unintelligible) with Dexter. (pause) Oh. Oh, okay. Okay. Let me tell him. (unintelligible) (Speaks to Jones on radio) Uh\u2013 Negative, negative. Uh\u2013 She said that\u2013 she just felt\u2013 she said that on her own, that, uh, she just felt, because of where she was at right now, that that would be something that we should do. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What do you mean, where her head\u2019s at, or where, uh, she\u2019s, uh, lo\u2013 located?<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> He\u2013 He says where you head\u2019s at, or where you\u2019re located physically? (pause) (door opens and closes) (microphone jostled) Uh, she said because of her capacity now, not for any other reason except for\u2013 for you. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Say she\u2019s being uh, narcissistic and not weighing her future, because uh, I don\u2019t think, basically\u2013<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> (same time as Jones above) You\u2019re being narcissistic and not weighing the future.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> She doesn\u2019t think, basically.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> She doesn\u2019t think basically.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013George left with any ill intentions.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> George left with any ill intentions.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> George left with any ill intentions.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> But sometimes other people create conditions that you try and avoid.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> I know\u2013 But sometimes you\u2019ll meet conditions that you cannot avoid. Other people create situations, conditions, that you cannot avoid. Understand? Okay. (15 second pause) Yeah, uh-huh. (10 second pause) He\u2019s just saying, you know, that\u2019s been true with others in the past, that he left with somewhat good<\/em> intentions. (10 second pause) Someone. (Addressing people in room) She said yes, uh, but David and Jane turned out all right. Over. (pause) David and Jane. She said David and Jane turned out all right. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) referring to. (unintelligible, lots of microphone jostling) uh, Margaret position. Do you copy?<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> He said that it\u2019s different because you\u2019re in a market position. (pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That\u2019s not what I\u2019m talkin\u2019 about. She\u2019s misunderstanding it entirely.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> It\u2019s not what\u2013 That\u2019s not the way he meant it. (unintelligible word) you\u2019re mis-saying\u2013 understanding it entirely, just because\u2013 (Pause) You\u2019ve dealt with him. You, you\u2013 Okay. (30 second pause)<\/p>\n

Female 2:<\/strong> (several sentences unintelligible) I\u2019d rather be dealt with on an up-front level (unintelligible), but then again, I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t think I specifically\u2013 I thought that (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> (unintelligible) (electronic buzz) Uh, she thought that the situations, like with\u2013 She said, yes, there\u2019s paranoia was, uh, out of hand, it was great, and that, like the situations with Harry\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Like who?<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Harry. Over. What\u2013 (unintelligible under Male 1)<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Doesn\u2019t make any difference at this point.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Uh, that he had come back there, but, uh, he wasn\u2019t told why he couldn\u2019t come back here<\/em>. And, uh, she felt that things were not up front<\/em> enough, and at the rally\u2013<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> That things have got\u2013 she felt that things had gotten out of hand. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, tell her that indeed she\u2019s not been following, uh, Dr. Baker\u2019s (unintelligible word) very well.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Following what?<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Dr. Baker\u2019s denial. If she (unintelligible) structure, she\u2019ll get plenty of it. Or if she will have to do what she wants. I don\u2019t believe she can do (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> (same time as Jones above) He said you haven\u2019t been following Dr. Baker\u2019s uh, very well\u2013 situation very well.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> She doesn\u2019t like structure\u2013<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> If you don\u2019t like structure\u2013<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> \u2013 you\u2019re gonna get plenty of it.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> \u2013 you\u2019re gonna find you\u2019re gonna get plenty of it.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Or she\u2019s gonna have to do\u2013<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> \u2013 or you\u2019re gonna have to do\u2013<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> \u2013 what she does not want to do.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> \u2013 what you don\u2019t want to do.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> And live with yourself.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> And live with yourself. (40 second pause) (unintelligible) Some of the means were too severe. Some of the means were too severe, I can\u2019t stand that.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Does she think some (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Um, she says that she didn\u2019t dislike structure, that she knew it was necessary, but she felt that some of the things were\u2013 there was too much of it, there was just too\u2013 it was too severe. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, she\u2019s not following an intelligent lead, to be realistic. I\u2019m talking about Ed\u2019s\u2013 Ed\u2019s situation (unintelligible) Sarah (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> He\u2019s talking about Sarah\u2019s field.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) Sarah\u2019s uh\u2013 Sarah\u2019s field. She is not realistic\u2013<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Female:<\/strong> He says that you\u2019re not being realistic, that you need to think about, like, Sarah\u2019s field, and\u2013 Sarah\u2019s field. (pause) Uh, just a minute. (Addresses people in room) She doesn\u2019t understand. She asks what about Sarah\u2019s field? Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> She\u2013 I thought she (unintelligible word) understand. Mildred, Margaret, and she\u2013<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Mildred, Margaret, and she. (unintelligible) why isn\u2019t she taking a stand? Mildred and Margaret\u2013<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> He doesn\u2019t understand why you don\u2019t understand because Mildred, Margaret, and you\u2013 (40 second pause) Well, what made you finally (unintelligible). Yeah.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> (whispers) Don\u2019t say anything.<\/p>\n

(someone blows into microphone)<\/p>\n

Female 2:<\/strong> \u2013Uh, I don\u2019t think that\u2019s gonna happen (unintelligible) he said (unintelligible).<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Okay. Just a moment. (jostling of microphone) Okay, she said she understood, but she thought that if there was just a basic distrust of everybody, then what was the point of trying. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It isn\u2019t ours<\/em>. It isn\u2019t ours<\/em>. It isn\u2019t ours<\/em>. Fuck. If\u2013 If\u2013 If\u2013 Then she doesn\u2019t understand: if our<\/em> distrust, she would immediately be put to the test. How can she pass that test? How does she know<\/em> she\u2013 what she can do to pass that test. George knows.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> He says it\u2019s not his<\/em> distrust. (unintelligible) immediately put to the test, and how can you pass that test? He says that George knows\u2013 (20 second pause) (unintelligible) Um, she said that she would write up all her feelings and everything that, you know, if you\u2013 if you wanted her to. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, (sighs) I trust her enough to tell her that uh, a lot rests on promptness. Do you copy?<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> (unintelligible word) He says that he trusts you enough to tell you that a lot rests on promptness. Understand? (pause) Are you there? Okay.<\/p>\n

Female 2:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Huh?<\/p>\n

Female 2:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Um, no, I thought you might. Hold on. (pause)<\/p>\n

Female 2:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Okay, wait a minute, I\u2019ll find out, hold on. (pause) Um, she said that, do you mean with Margaret, like with Margaret? She\u2019s not sure. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (resigned tone of voice) No. No. (Pause) I\u2013 She is\u2013 She\u2019s young and na\u00efve. I know what this means. No matter what her intentions, I know what this means. (unintelligible) They will uh\u2013 They\u2013 That\u2019s all\u2013 George is in no position to do anything but lie, at the present point. Do you copy?<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> (unintelligible, jostling of microphone) He said (unintelligible word) to do anything but lie at this present point, and you\u2019re young, and he knows what that means.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> (whispering) She\u2019s young and na\u00efve.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> And na\u00efve.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Hold on.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible) she\u2019ll stop to think.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Hmm?<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Negative copy.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Negative copy.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Mildred did not see<\/em> Rex uh, lately, when we needed her to see Rex, because of this very thing. Do you copy?<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> He says no, they did not see Rex, uh, lately when we needed her to see Rex, and\u2013 because of this very thing. (10 second pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Now for that fact, neither does Theresa or Karl.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Do you understand?<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> And after that fact\u2013<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> And after that fact, nei\u2013 neither does Theresa or Karl. (25 second pause) (unintelligible) She said she understood what you\u2019re saying, but she doesn\u2019t have any response to that. Over. (whispers) Oh, God.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> So she\u2019s so unsophisticated about that\u2013 the people who were not apostolic. (Clears throat) So unsophisticated. And I\u2013 I wish I could count on her now, because everything counts on her.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Roger. Stand by. (To Female 2) He said that you are so unsophisticated about the people that are not apostolic, and he wishes that he could count on you, because everything counts on you right now. (10 second pause) He just wants you to hold off and tell Rex.<\/p>\n

Female 2:<\/strong> Tell Ellen.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Tell Ellen, right. (pause) Huh? (10 second pause) Hang on. Huh? (pause) Stand by. Huh? (Pause) Um, she copied, and I said (microphone jostled, obscuring comment) I just wanted her to hold off until, uh, you could\u2013 we could see Ellie, and she said, \u201cWell, that could be for months.\u201d Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> My\u2013 My copy is fading. What did you say?<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> I\u2013 I\u2013 She copied\u2013 she copied, and then I reiterated that you wanted her to hold off until uh, you could talk to Ellie, and she said that could be months. Over.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

End of tape<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you. To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3. (Note: This tape was one of the 53 tapes initially withheld from public disclosure.) Side 1 is blank Side 2: (Movement of microphone for several […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":580,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-77975","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/77975","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=77975"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/77975\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":78116,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/77975\/revisions\/78116"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=77975"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}