{"id":77986,"date":"2018-02-05T11:45:34","date_gmt":"2018-02-05T19:45:34","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=77986"},"modified":"2019-11-25T16:57:34","modified_gmt":"2019-11-26T00:57:34","slug":"q1014-transcript","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=77986","title":{"rendered":"Q1014 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

(<\/em>Editor’s note: <\/em><\/strong>This tape was transcribed by Georgiana Mamlakah. The<\/em>editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)<\/em><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>. To read the Annotated Tape Transcript, click here<\/a>.
\nTo read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>,\u00a0Pt. 2<\/a>).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (unintelligible beginning) we come tripping in here, not once a week, but three<\/em> times and four<\/em> times and five<\/em> times a week. And no one been scattered across the highway, and even that group from Texas that now has their jobs that testified there on Thursday night that now have their jobs<\/em> in Los Angeles, five of them was thrown over the highway last week. I know how to set up the energy field to do<\/em> that. Now I\u2019ve not pretended<\/em> to be your cotton-pickin\u2019 God. I pretended to be and maintain<\/em> to be and declare<\/em> to be and exhibit<\/em> that I am, and manifest<\/em> I am, your only savior.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Now I know just how to set up the atmosphere to do that. You just allow me to set that atmosphere up, because until you can get better results\u2013 That\u2019s why I said, you better accept the God in me<\/em> until you can do better works<\/em> than I. Anybody\u2019s a fool that doesn\u2019t accept someone that can do a better job. [If] You\u2019re out on a ship or on a raft, you better accept someone that knows how to keep the raft afloat. He knows something about sails, a little bit more about the rudder and the motion and the terrestrial currents and so forth. You better\u2013 You better allow that person to use their judgment, and no\u2013 and not be a fool<\/em> and say, well, I know as much as he<\/em> does. You better follow God in the highest degree, or good, wherever you find it. Now if you\u2019ve found it someplace else than I<\/em>, and more character than I<\/em>, you<\/em> let me know, \u2018cause we\u2019ll close this building tonight, and we\u2019ll all paddle ourselves right over there.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Voice rises throughout) But you know you can\u2019t find it, and I wish you could<\/em> find it, because it\u2019s a real difficult responsibility. I said I want the principle perpetuated, but I want somebody that doesn\u2019t care about their life<\/em> to perpetuate it. I want the principle to go on, but I wouldn\u2019t want to vote on any of you to be the principle bearer. I wouldn\u2019t want one<\/em> of you to have to do it, yet it must<\/em> be somebody.<\/em> I\u2019m looking<\/em> for a man. I\u2019m looking<\/em> for a woman. I\u2019m looking out. Who<\/em> will I send? Who<\/em> will go for me? I want to hear somebody\u2019s heart, even tonight, some young person, say, here I am<\/em>, Father God, here I am. Send me.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Scattered applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Voice calms, then climbs throughout) But I want you to want to do it. \u2018Cause you don\u2019t want to do it. If you don\u2019t know what you\u2019re getting into, I don\u2019t want you to do it all. If you want to live to serve, you find more fulfilling in serving than you would in taking, then I want you to be ready for my Godship school. \u2018Cause we gotta train some gods<\/em>. We are gods and sons of the Most High. The Godship principle must never get away from us. It\u2019s only the Godship<\/em> principle that keeps people from dying. It\u2019s only the Godship principle that kept all those people from being burned alive. The Order of Man, which is supposed to be the most successful group next to us, it was burned out. They<\/em> couldn\u2019t do it. Twenty-one of their people ended up in the hospital. They<\/em> don\u2019t have it. He claims to be Paul<\/em>. That\u2019s not enough. Paul coming back won\u2019t do<\/em> it. It\u2019s gonna take something higher than Paul. It takes the ultimate of faith. It takes the summon bonum of your confidence. You\u2019ve got to have the highest<\/em> confidence, and the thing we call the highest confidence is G.O.D.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Ministerial tone) Many, many a time, I said, please<\/em> call me Jim, and call me this or that or the other, but every time we get down there, we have trouble<\/em>. If we get down in mortality\u2019s version and get down on the level of seeing me as a man, we don\u2019t have<\/em> this kind of protection. We\u2019d like to be away<\/em> with this labeling and away with this kind of categorazying\u2013 categorizing, but every time we do<\/em>, we have trouble. That\u2019s why then we must never<\/em> let God<\/em> get away from us. We\u2019re gonna keep God<\/em> in a body.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (In full throat) We have<\/em> to. It\u2019s your survival<\/em>. It\u2019s your baby\u2019s<\/em> survival. It\u2019s that confidence<\/em> that gets them through. (Moderates, then climbs throughout) How many times a ship\u2019s been ready to go over, ready to be destroyed. How many times a riot\u2019s been ready to break out in a theater that was on fire, but somebody<\/em> came along that they had confidence. And they would be able to hold<\/em> back the aggressiveness and the frustrations that would\u2019ve destroyed<\/em> people. We\u2019ve got to have a captain<\/em> of this ship. We\u2019ve got to have the best<\/em> captain we can find, and if you can find another, good<\/em> God, get him, because I\u2019ll put him in this seat now. But I have looked<\/em> over all<\/em> creation. I\u2019ve looked high, and I\u2019ve looked low. I\u2019ve looked on every continent. I\u2019ve looked at the very bottom<\/em> of the earth. I\u2019ve looked at the top<\/em> of the earth, and I found nobody but me, and so here I am. Use me.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Enthusiastic applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Moderates, then climbs throughout) Here I am, use me. And I will gladly know. Certainly exposure is a dangerous thing. Double exposure, triple exposure, I have triple<\/em> exposure every weekend. Familiarity breeds contempt. Know how I deal with that. I have no need<\/em> for anyone to teach me about people. People get used to anything. I don\u2019t mind when they get used to me, because then that will be the end of me. \u2018Cause I have come<\/em> to be finished<\/em>. If I can use the word quickly that comes spontan\u2013 the spontaneity from my innermost being. I\u2019ve come<\/em> to be expended. So you won\u2019t bother me when you get finished with me, but you\u2019ll<\/em> be bothered when you get finished with me. That\u2019s why we have to think always<\/em> to keep this office in its proper perspective. I cannot be<\/em> like I\u2019d like to be, \u2018cause I just want to be a chum<\/em> of yours. I want to get down there and hobnob<\/em> with you. I want to be able to just be right on the level with you all<\/em> the time and just fellowship and sit around over a cup of ginseng tea, if it were, but I cannot<\/em> because your survival<\/em> depends that I be high<\/em> and lifted up. And if I be lifted up, I<\/em> will draw, I<\/em> will save, I<\/em> will heal.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Peace. (In full throat) Now I would love to have the ordinary social intercourses and all the other intercourses. How lovely it would be, because I\u2019m flesh<\/em> of your flesh and bone of your bone, but I have been willing<\/em> to set myself apart as the loneliest<\/em> of men to be of way and removed and alienated<\/em> and unknown<\/em>. I\u2019m always gonna be unknown. I only want to save you. (Voice moderates) If that would be to be a piece of pin, or just a little needle on that wall or that little fire siren or that exit sign. I\u2019m only here to save you. And I have to be unfamiliar to save you, and I have to always know how much I\u2019m exposing myself, and yet I have to give enough exposure that you\u2019ll know the truth. It\u2019s a terrible<\/em> job, to just not give too much of yourself so you\u2019ll run out too soon and your people will be lost. I don\u2019t want you to be lost, until somebody else comes along. (Pause) And I\u2019ve looked around, I don\u2019t see anybody coming along. (Clears throat).<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Delayed applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Conversational) I see some coming up<\/em>. But I don\u2019t see anyone coming along. I see some babes, some of you precious ones that\u2019ve got the potential, that you would get yourself out of the way, I think, in time, but there\u2019s certainly nobody outside<\/em>. Nobody gonna look at people like I do and know what\u2019s in them and put up<\/em> with it. That\u2019s a dreadful thing, to know that people\u2013 to know you\u2019re only of value as long as you\u2019re useful<\/em>. To know that people\u2019ll get rid of you tomorrow<\/em>, just like a piece of soap<\/em>. They\u2019ll use that soap until it washes\u2013 as long as it washes, then when it gets down to a little bit of cake, and they\u2019ll just flush it down the toilet. And that\u2019s what it mean, people using me. And I\u2019m willing for them to be\u2013 to use<\/em> me. Not love me, but to use me. Very few leaders are like that. They think they\u2019ll loved. They never<\/em> can face the fact that their day\u2019s gonna come when they won\u2019t be needed anymore. I have faced that when I started. That\u2019s what makes me the most unique<\/em> leader you\u2019ve ever had. I\u2019ve faced the fact that my own oblivion<\/em> will come, that my own usefulness will one day be finished. I know that you will need me no more<\/em> one day, when my body happens to look like it is not as youthful as it might be or should be, when I don\u2019t have as much energy and can\u2019t run or can\u2019t keep up night or day counseling, can\u2019t continue this rab\u2013 this terrible, driving slave pace. I know<\/em> I will be finished, but I keep on driving myself because I love you, and no one\u2019s ever (breathless word) loved you so much. No one has ever loved you half so much\u2013<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Moderates, then climbs throughout) \u2013not even a tenth so much. I have no mistake and disillusionment. I have no illusions of power nor grandeur. I know what the future holds for all who will bear the marks of Christ, for all<\/em> who will take up the mantle and be a God in the earth. I know<\/em> what it means. And I don\u2019t want any of you to walk into it with blinders on. Don\u2019t anybody walk into it with blinders on, because it\u2019s the loneliest post. They say the president of the United States is alone. Oh, he doesn\u2019t know anything about loneliness. The loneliest<\/em> post\u2013 All he has to do is at least make right normal human<\/em> decisions. I<\/em> can do<\/em> that, but I\u2019ve got to heal<\/em> just so many people. I\u2019ve got to pull enough miracles<\/em> out of the hat. I\u2019ve got to build a dynamism all<\/em> the time, not a\u2013 I can always<\/em> be a good character. Good God, there\u2019ll never be anybody as honest as I. Nobody\u2019ll ever fight for you like I. There never was a human<\/em> that would die<\/em> and live for you like I. But I\u2019ve got to be a God<\/em> on top of it. I\u2019m in the loneliest office of all the world.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Some of you don\u2019t clap, because you don\u2019t know what\u2019s going on<\/em>. You don\u2019t know what I have to do<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (in full throat) Everything here that\u2019s done, I order. Everything that comes about, I set it up. Everything that takes place, I <\/em>bring it about. Every plan, it\u2019s mine<\/em>. Every dream, it\u2019s mine<\/em>. Every administration, it\u2019s mine<\/em>. You need me. Oh God, you need me.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Talk to those. Talk to those, they\u2019ll need me too one day. Poor little things, they\u2019ll need me. (Pause, calms) I don\u2019t care when people choose to go otherwise. I just know that they\u2019re gonna need me. (Pause) Talked to the leader of another group close by our church today, and he was so nervous. He said, I don\u2019t know what I\u2019d do<\/em> if this happens to me. Please don\u2019t mention that we uh\u2013 that you get any of our things. Supposed to be the bravest group in\u2013 in the black community. Please don\u2019t mention that you buy our bread or this, that or the other. My God almighty. People scared, shaking in the boots, the teeth was rattling, afraid they\u2019re gonna get burned down. I\u2019m not afraid. The only leader you ever had. They say, oh, said, please thank you. I\u2013 Well, they didn\u2019t. I just said, well, I won\u2019t mention your name and so you won\u2019t be connected with us. And oh, they were so relieved. They thanked Chris [likely Chris Lewis] and they thanked Johnny Brown and oh, they said, it so thoughtful, your pastor, \u2018cause I don\u2019t know what I would do. What kind of leaders people have? Oh, my God. They don\u2019t know what they would do, if their little old building got burned down. Well, they better get used to something more than that gonna happen, \u2018cause their little old something else\u2019s gonna get burned down. (Short laugh)<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Scattered applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Voice rises) Any leader who\u2019s really a father, is gonna get his boom boom burned down. That\u2019s what he\u2019s gonna get. He\u2019s gonna get his body<\/em> consumed, gonna get his rear end consumed, he\u2019s gonna have to be consumed<\/em> for his people, he\u2019s gonna have to die<\/em> that his people might live. Any leader that\u2019s a father that\u2019s worth a salt will die that his people might live, and then he\u2019s afraid he\u2019s gonna have his little old building burned down. You\u2019ve got no leader. That\u2019s why I beg you, don\u2019t go out. You\u2019ve got no friend. You\u2019ve got no father. There\u2019s only one. Jim Jones is his name.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Cheers and applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Moderates) Some of my own people would not be able to give you your strength. They\u2019d let you down. They\u2019d do you in. I<\/em> won\u2019t let you be done in. Spit in my face, I won\u2019t let you be done in. Man in Ukiah, [Lester Kinsolving] evil, evil<\/em> man, oh God, what he is. Terrible<\/em> thing he\u2019s done. A minister. And I\u2019m the only thing that keeps this group from puttin\u2019 him behind bars. And the only reason I don\u2019t put him behind bars is because I don\u2019t want to hurt anybody, and he\u2019s got children. He\u2019s hurtin\u2019 us<\/em>. Every minute he hurts us. But I\u2019m the only man I know that won\u2019t give you back an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I won\u2019t give it back to you.<\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Met this crusade when they came\u2013 they wanted me to go down to get Kinsolving. I haven\u2019t got it an enemy. We\u2019ve got evidence on him pretty bad. But I\u2019m not\u2013 I\u2019m not out for blood. I\u2019m out to save. Seek and save those who want to be saved. Bless your hearts. (voice drops to a whisper) So I uh, just uh, relax uh\u2013 It\u2019s all right. Been preoccupied about her dog and other thing. Just relax, darling, just relax. (Pause) Yeah, I know, well, she just needs to get relaxed. I don\u2019t\u2013 don\u2019t need to be told what\u2013 whatever bother to tell me (unintelligible word) anybody is happy. Don\u2019t ever do that. She\u2019s preoccupied with an obsession particularly about her dog. Peace. Now who\u2019s gonna stand and help us get these\u2013 We\u2019ve already paid for some, we\u2019ve got to pay for some more. Who\u2019ll give us 20 or 25? Who\u2019ll give us something here tonight to get those items that we need? Gotta do it. It\u2019s up to you and I to do it, nobody else gone do it. Nobody else is gone befriend us. We haven\u2019t had a church offer to befriend, they\u2019re afraid to lift up the telephone, even know us. The politicians have, the mayor [Joseph Alioto] has, the city officials have, the mayor\u2019s assistant [Joe Johnson, Assistant Deputy Mayor for Social Programs of San Francisco] gave us a hundred dollars on Friday. But these churches are running, they\u2019re all cowards. There isn\u2019t\u2013 there nobody in the church world that\u2019s got any\u2013 any strength. They don\u2019t even want to let anybody know they know<\/em> us.<\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah, I mean that. Scared to death. Scared to death. Afraid they\u2019re gonna be burned down next. (Pause) I\u2019m glad ours [is] over with. You know, it\u2019s like your appendix. They\u2019ve got ours out, honey. We\u2019re ready now. You want\u2013 Once they get this\u2013 (laughs).<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Scattered applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All their preparations, they won\u2019t make as\u2013 well, much preparation as we are, because we\u2019ve been through it. We\u2019re gonna keep that fire vivid in our mind. We\u2019ll be not caught with our proverbials down the next<\/em> time. Father had an answer. He had a fence built all around us, as that precious pianist of ours is saying\u2013 s\u2013 has written and sings so beautifully, that choir ren\u2013 renders so lovely. I had a fence. I had a fence provided with alarm systems and had fence with security system, fence even for the insurance, but we\u2013 we kind of got busy with other things and didn\u2019t get all those thing done. Now we\u2019ve learned a lesson. I think a whole lot of people now that\u2019ll not be careless the next time. But most important, let it all be gone, not what money we\u2019ve lost. Let us remember that not a life was lost, and that\u2019s the greatest miracle ever told.<\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (clears throat) (conversational) I wish I could take you through that building, like some of the people who\u2019ve lived there, been there. I wish I could sh\u2013 show you the places where they\u2019ve been saying, when everything else was burned to a crisp, for instance, our files, our letter files, and the necessary information to get to people and the files about their health. Good God, all those things were saved, where pictures were. Every vital thing like that was saved. Our tapes, they couldn\u2019t be replaced. Our records, all those records. Now you know how quick a record will burn up? The record didn\u2019t even singe. Not a record.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You know how candles melt? Those blessed candles? Not a candle melted. Not a scorch<\/em> on a candle.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I swear on my children\u2019s life, this is true<\/em>. Go out there and ask the people at the counter. It\u2019s true, whole truth, nothing but the truth. You ought to take a look at that angry building, you\u2019d know what a miracle it was. I can\u2019t tell you, it\u2013 only\u2013 only thing I can think of when I think of that building is a burned-out match stick. That\u2019s the way it looks from the beginning to the end, except where Bea Morton had a picture, or Jane Mutschmann had a picture, or here and there, everything else, and they\u2019ll be a little old covey like that will be hanging on nothing<\/em>. The floor out from under it, the roof out from under it, just hanging on there secure, and like her, where\u2013 where she had her pictures, not even the dress\u2013 not the dress burned, not even the bread\u2013 bedspread burned. (Pause) What? Curtains still hanging up, and everything else gone. Except her equipment. My my my my my my my my my my.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Who\u2019ll<\/em> give us tonight to help us get this thing? We only uh\u2013 after all the effort<\/em> that was made by Sister Davis. We just come out with\u2013 We didn\u2019t come out with enough to pay the custodial people tonight. Two hundred and some dollars. That\u2019s it, that\u2019s it.. So we gotta do something, folks. When\u2013 when\u2013 when we had Redwood Valley meetings and uh, didn\u2019t even come here on Sunday nights, we\u2019d go home, we\u2019d always<\/em> come out with five times times that. I don\u2019t quite figure it out, \u2018cause Redwood Valley is supposed to be here. If people don\u2019t want to come any worse than that, I mean we\u2019ll just have the Sunday service and go on home and take care of our business, but somebody\u2019ll get in the ditch, and I\u2019ll have to get them out. That\u2019s why I keep \u2018em around me so much. You think I enjoyed having you come to meetings. I know you\u2019re safe<\/em> when you\u2019re with me. \u2018Cause you die with me, I can resurrect you.<\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You have a stroke like that man was having there, I can get you\u2013 sh\u2013 get you through it. But you go home\u2013 some of you don\u2019t have\u2013 some of you don\u2019t know<\/em> the problems and the difficulties. You\u2019ll get yourself in trouble before you go down a street. Somebody\u2019ll be in jail tonight, if they weren\u2019t here<\/em>. Sure<\/em>, they make a decision and it was wrong. Good<\/em> people make wrong decisions. I know when you\u2019re here<\/em>, I can look after you. You think I like to come to church all day? Huh-uh, huh-uh, huh-uh [no]. I\u2019d love to be out there and sit and listen to this beautiful choir and listen to your testimonies \u2013 I enjoy that part \u2013 but when my<\/em> time comes, oh, I\u2019d rather be hung. I like to hear you people testify and sing and clap, but when I<\/em> get on the program, I just sit and look at you. You wonder why I look at you? I say, oh, will the day come when I can have somebody else to come in my task so that I can be out there and carry somebody\u2019s coat. But I know it won\u2019t come, \u2018til I finally get to the place where I\u2019m broken in a body, if that were the case. Then when I really needed<\/em> somebody, then that would\u2013 then it would come. So I\u2019m prepared<\/em> for that. I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m prepared that uh, when I cannot function, if my body wouldn\u2019t function, I\u2019m prepared to grad\u2013 drag myself to a graveyard, so you won\u2019t be handicapped. That\u2019s the kind of commitment I<\/em> have, that\u2019s what makes me a very trusted savior. I remember when they run over me with a truck<\/em>, I said to myself, if I can\u2019t get myself straightened around and uh, I know what\u2019ll happen, they\u2019ll even crush my children, they\u2019ll crush everybody that needs me. There\u2019ll be some \u2013 not<\/em> many of you \u2013 a lot of you are good people, refined people \u2013 but there\u2019re some that would crush<\/em> me. I said if I cannot get my st\u2013 my uh, legs straightened out, I know how to get my body<\/em> straightened out. I know a way to stop breathing. That\u2019s the way you have to think<\/em>, if you\u2019re gonna be in this<\/em> line. If you\u2019re gonna be in the front<\/em> line, you gotta be ready\u2013 If you can\u2019t keep yourself going<\/em>, to get yourself out of the way. I\u2013 uh, the old dogs have got more sense than humans. (Pause) I don\u2019t want you<\/em> to do that, \u2018cause I\u2019ll take care of you. You\u2019ve been my precious children. And I don\u2019t care how tired you get, I\u2019ll find a corner for you and I\u2019ll find some good food for you. I don\u2019t care how tired or hindered you may be or handicapped, you\u2019re my old dog or young dog or new dog or whatever, don\u2019t make any difference, you\u2019re all my children. (voice rises) But if I <\/em>personally got into trouble, I won\u2019t be any care on you. You won\u2019t ever take care of me. There\u2019ll never be nobody have to wait on me in a bed. There\u2019ll nobody have ever\u2013 have to bring me any food in my bed. I will be gone, I will stand on my feet and serve you, and when I can\u2019t, I<\/em> will remove myself, I<\/em> do declare.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Moderates) Don\u2019t you do my children<\/em> that way, though. That\u2019s my<\/em> decision. \u2018Cause I\u2019ve had to be so much, that I can\u2019t afford to ever get in\u2013 in a bed. I can\u2019t afford<\/em> to get in a wheelchair. You can, though. You don\u2019t have to be God. You\u2019re just my children. You understand what I\u2019m talking about? I\u2019m talking very simple<\/em> plain facts tonight. So before you want to become my successor<\/em>, you better know what you\u2019re in for. I\u2019ve set an awful hard line. I\u2019ve laid down an awful difficult road. I\u2019ve set down some very difficult steps<\/em> for you to follow in. I wish sometimes I hadn\u2019t, \u2018cause I\u2019m making it rough for my successor. But I don\u2019t know how to do anything else, but be just me. And to be just me means to be in love with you. And to give<\/em> for you. And to care<\/em> for you. But I hope<\/em> somebody\u2019s stirred up in this place, that cares. I look at people sleeping, when I\u2019m the\u2013 Thank you, thank you (unintelligible name). I hope that somebody\u2019s stirred up to such a degree that they\u2019ll care like that. Some of you don\u2019t even relate to what I\u2019m talking about. You\u2019re all\u2013 you\u2019re\u2013 you\u2019re\u2013 you\u2019re either taken aback because you think, why, God, he can always be here. (voice rises) I have to fight<\/em> to be here. They\u2019ve tried to kill<\/em> me, poison<\/em> me, run over<\/em> me, and I made up my mind that I will be here or ever bit whole<\/em>, I\u2019ll be able to\u2013 be able to give you strength<\/em>, or I will take my own breath. I will not<\/em> be a God that has to be cared<\/em> for. A God comes to be serving, not<\/em> to be served. A God comes to give, not<\/em> to receive. I will give and when I cannot give<\/em>, I will get<\/em> out of the way, so that something will come on that cannot die.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Scattered applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Moderates) I hope you weigh this sermon on occasion, \u2018cause it\u2019s a profound lesson in what it means to be a savior. (Pause) (Conversational) Well, who will stand up and help me with uh, the cause now? Who\u2019ll give $20 to help us get the things to save youth. Some got it, hmm? Thank you, Sister Lacy. Thank you. Who else will give? Quickly. Get it over with. This is another death to me. I\u2019d rather people pluck my eyes out, than have to take an offering. (Pause) I don\u2019t like to do it. Thank you. (Pause) Thank you. Everybody stand to your feet and give 20, that can give it right now. Right this quick, right quick. Um-hmm [Yes]. (Pause) That comes back walking anyway, had to guide him back. Had to help him out. But he can get himself back in. That\u2019s beautiful isn\u2019t it.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

(Pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Who else will give 20 very quickly? You think my healings are not real? I got a sister there in the aisle from Los Angeles, she can tell you when the\u2013\u00a0she had the neck cast on\u2013 on Thursday night. I had to be\u2013 I had to dare<\/em> out there to get it off of her, \u2018cause I loved her. Also I wanted to set an example of faith, to inspire faith, inspire it in others. You don\u2019t believe\u2013 you want to (unintelligible word)\u2013 talk to her if you don\u2019t know how real her condition was. Talk to her. It\u2019s gone now. Oh, oh, so beautiful, but it\u2019s so costly. I think people would appreciate it more, if they knew how much I have to put into it. Every healing takes a pound<\/em> of my flesh. (Long pause) That\u2019s beautiful. Twenty, the last time. We\u2019ve got to have<\/em> it, folk. (Pause) Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You\u2013 I don\u2019t think you probably weigh what we have to get, if you don\u2019t weigh the detection devices we have to get, heat detection, radios, communications. I don\u2019t think you know what it means to be a conscientious father. I don\u2019t mean\u2013 I\u2019m not speaking that in a belittling way. I just don\u2019t think you grasp<\/em> how costly it is to set up an operation to protect the family. (Pause) Archie [Ijames] had to be prepared practically to bring that man on a\u2013 a\u2013 a stretcher, he was just telling me. He\u2013 He was that bad, and they brought him, and their faith paid off, because I just took care of him then.<\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong> Yes, yes, yes.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Fifteen (tape edit) \u2013desperate to save her house but she\u2019s not around here. She didn\u2019t even get back Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. (Pause) (Short laugh) Well, that\u2019s good\u2013 I\u2013 you make a good wife, Lee Ethel [Young], I\u2019m glad to have you.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Scattered applause and laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Wonderful. (Pause) She said she\u2019s married to me, and I\u2019m glad she is. I\u2019m proud to have her as my wife. (unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Marceline [Jones] said I never thought I\u2019d live in\u2013 in a harem and enjoy it. But she said, I like some of your wives.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Laughs.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs) Oh, we\u2019re talking about a spiritual relationship, folk. Don\u2019t get worried. Don\u2019t get frustrated. You\u2019re not losing anything. (Laughs) Oh yes, you are. The thing you\u2019re talking about would be losing, but what we\u2019ve got is a high road of holiness.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Calls and scattered applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> The marriage we talk about is a bed that\u2019s undefiled and glorious. Fifteen again, ten again, ten, ten, can we see several there? That fine young man. I do love to look at you. That\u2019s my one joy. I come and I look at you. And I\u2019ve seen you grow, and I look at that mess outside. That\u2019s what you need to look at. You get disappointed with these people. You better look at that mess outside. You ought to take a walk with our security people over there and listen, and l\u2013 listen to that group that has\u2013 supposed to be that big brave bunch down the street from us, and watch them right now. (Pause) Then you look at our people, you\u2019ll be happy. You\u2019ll be happy to know them, because they\u2019re the best going. With all their faults, they\u2019re the best there you\u2019ve ever seen.<\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong> Amen.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Now if I<\/em> can love them, you<\/em> ought to be able to love them, because they make mistakes that could take the people\u2019s lives<\/em>. And that\u2019s uh, tremens\u2013 tremendous and tragic upset. I can\u2019t get the words to describe how I feel about it. People make mistakes that could cost people\u2019s lives<\/em>, and I have to go in and save<\/em> their lives. But I see them. And even the ones that make the mistakes, they\u2019re better than anything outside. Say well, that\u2019s not saying much. Well, let me tell you, if you didn\u2019t have this, you\u2019d be worse<\/em> off. So they\u2019re not perfect, you be grateful for what you\u2019ve got, because if you were out there<\/em>, you\u2019d still be worse off yet, wouldn\u2019t you?<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Calls and applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Go try \u2018em a while. Woman that we healed here today of spinal ma\u2013 uh, spinal back\u2013 uh, spinal problems, she asked her church, good Baptist church over here that we could throw a rock at, that got healed of her spine today. She asked her church to help her get some aspirin<\/em>. Again, an aspirin<\/em> \u2013 I never heard anything like this \u2013 to buy aspirin \u2018cause she couldn\u2019t afford it. Her church wouldn\u2019t give her a lickin\u2019 dime. \u2018Cause aspirin\u2019s the only thing that\u2019ll stop the pain. That\u2019s what she told me, and the brothers right up here at this altar, that they wouldn\u2019t even give her money, to loan some money<\/em> to buy some aspirin. You better know what you\u2019ve got here. We\u2019ve got a\u2013 We\u2013 Most anybody here\u2019ll give you a loan to get some aspirin.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Affirmation and scattered applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Ten. Can I get several that\u2019ll rally to ten, because we\u2019re in a real bad state. (Pause) Hmm? Thank you. Pleasure to give it. Ten. The last time. The last time. (Pause) You got it in all those leading ch\u2013 churches, say we\u2019ve got to do something about Jim Jones, he\u2019s gonna\u2013 he gonna take over America. Now that<\/em> might be.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Quickly, quickly, quickly. Know those who labor amongst you. It\u2019s all right. (Pause) Hands clasped. (Pause) No, don\u2019t worry about it. (Short ,laugh) Ho, ho, the old fox is in his seat, honey, you got nothing to worry about. I was on the back of bus 7, I said that none of my people hurt. I was on bus 7, and all they said that the place was burned down, burned down. It\u2019s\u2013 fire out of control. I said, none of my people hurt. At about that time, I was leading sweetheart back there, I was leading her through a grill that nobody \u2013couldn\u2019t get a pussycat through.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Scattered laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs) And I\u2019m tellin\u2019 you, right there she\u2019s stands. Leadin\u2019 her through a grill that you couldn\u2019t get some big tomcats through. But she got through. She heard my voice, it said, don\u2019t go. And she didn\u2019t go, and if she ha, all the roof woulda\u2013 Oh! I\u2019m so thrilled for that. It\u2019s worth all my pain to see that. \u2018Cause that roof could\u2019ve fallen on her, crippled her, burned her alive, slow death. What a terrible way to die. She listened and went back through that window and I said you can, and she did, and she went through the grill. (Laughs).<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And that fire is teaching us, so we can slither like a snake, if we have to, to get away from these enemies. (Pause) Uh, Don [Ben] Bowers too wants to stay down here, the engineer. Uh\u2013 His was right back there where everything<\/em> burned to pieces. I mean that\u2013 that stage burned up till there was nothing left but strings of the piano. \u2018Cause your picture was in my room, nothing uh, was burned in my room, including clothing and many thousands of dollars worth of books and biological literature. Thank you, Jim.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2018Cause that was just like a chimney [vocalizes chimney draft] Oh, you can look for the piano, all you can find of the piano is the strings. I didn\u2019t even know what<\/em> to see of the organ. And don\u2019t be foolin\u2019 in that building. Last night I had to get a warning over there, pick up on it, they were sleepin\u2019 in that building. Don\u2019t you sleep in that building on guard duty. That building just being sustained right now by miraculous power, \u2018cause there\u2019s nothin\u2019 holdin\u2019 that building together. It\u2019s nothing but an open box, and the wind whistles through it, the roof\u2019s hangin\u2019 and it just [draws out word] sways. So don\u2019t get in that building. I didn\u2019t get you saved out from under to get in there and go to sleep and have it fall in on you.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Scattered, delayed applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> If it falls, we hope it\u2013 we\u2019ll\u2013 we\u2019ll meditate that it falls towards the people\u2019s cathedral.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Scattered applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Maybe we can give it a push<\/em> at least a few\u2013 few yards. (Pause) No, we\u2019ll\u2013 we\u2019re\u2013 we\u2019re not worrying about it falling. Peace. Five [dollars]. Four. Stand. Will you do\u2013 do that for me. [several tapes edits] so be sure you\u2019re here Sunday morning. You can save that money and all give supportively, but don\u2019t stay home unless you are working. Because if you stay home just to be copping out, you\u2019ll get in worse trouble than we going. And I warn<\/em> you, because I love you. You\u2019re staying home because of work? That\u2019s one thing. But [if] you stay home to keep out of responsibility, you\u2019ll get<\/em> responsibility in spite of yourself. (Pause) It\u2019s safer on the back of our buses than it is staying in your house watching TV, when you know to do better and don\u2019t do it. Sure is<\/em>. Been proven, we can take these buses all over this cotton-pickin\u2019 country. Touch \u2018em, spit on \u2018em, put a picture on \u2018em, speak the word to them. Go across se\u2013 several states with no window and no mirror and no windshield? Ha, ha, my my. You\u2019re safer in our buses than you are safe in sitting on your davenport. Somebody gone come in and thump your head, put a knot under your wig.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I\u2019m not gone tell on somebody but I just look at\u2013 One of our sisters stayed home, and she said I wish I\u2019da been\u2013 said you tell us about getting in Gulfport, Mississippi and having showers available to you and eatin\u2019 in a park. We had \u2018em if we wanted to use<\/em> them. And she said (Laughs)\u2013 she said, I\u2019m sitting in my house and they come, I\u2019ve got a gu\u2013 (Laughs) Said, they come to rob me, and I thought I should go, but I was afraid to go through the South, and she said, not only did my dog not protect me, they stole<\/em> my dog too. (laughs)<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (laughs) They stole her silverware and stole her kitchen and stole her dog too. Said that dog didn\u2019t even bark. She settin\u2019 in San Francisco worrying about us going through Mississippi. (laughs) She can tell on herself [if] she wants to, I\u2019m not gonna tell on her. (Pause) It\u2019s true<\/em>, though. It\u2013 it really is. You try to avoid trouble and you\u2019ll get trouble. (clears throat) Just be daring\u2013 just be daring, fearless, launch out into the deep. Let the shore line go. Very<\/em> well. Two dollars, the last time I shall mention it. I am\u2013 (tape edit) I\u2019m going have a heaviness in my chest like I had because of it, because some of you were bringing trouble on you. Well, I mentioned it the last time. You don\u2019t believe me, then try\u2013 try it out. I can only give you the road signs. I can give you the map, and if you don\u2019t want to follow it, get on your detour and see where it leads you. Ten<\/em> [dollars]. (Pause) (clears throat). That<\/em> feels better. That feels better. Nurse. (Tape edit) They\u2019re standing there. When they came up and set up, her hus\u2013 her son was laying there dying in the hospital. That\u2019s<\/em> the way they come with the message to me. Cut up in a hospital. And I said, I will not remember that\u2013 several\u2013 just a few Sunday nights ago. And I called her up and I said, I won\u2019t tell her. I prophesied according to my measure of faith, I said I will not tell her. It cannot be, and I wouldn\u2019t let it be, and I went down, and the man said I\u2019ve come to get her and she must be taken to hospital. I said we\u2019re gonna call, and when I called just that time, they were letting him out of the hospital. That\u2019s a great miracle. (Calls out) God.<\/p>\n

Voices in congregation:<\/strong> Yeah. All Right.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Calls out) Don\u2019t you forget it, because that\u2019s one of the miracles that my atmosphere<\/em>, that my energy<\/em> field, that my strategy<\/em> has brought about. \u2018Cause just sure as the world he\u2019d a been in trouble. (Pause) (Moderates) But I have to close this somewhere. One [dollar]. No, I don\u2019t hate to close it because I\u2019m not gonna get the money for this cause. I hate to do it because I know it\u2019s a test. But how long can you just keep fighting with people to get them to understand you. One [dollar], how many will give one dollar. One [dollar]. One [dollar]. (Clears throat) Give an immediate therapy for the stroke prevention. One dollar. One dollar. (Pause) I can (several tape edits) And we will do this one more time on the Temple. This is membership now. Some said they want to change and there\u2019ve been several that come up to different workers and said they want to change their vote. So we will again go over this vote matter. (Pause) Now there\u2019re various alternatives I can think of. (Clears throat) (Pause) And that\u2019s to buy the church next to the one we have, although there\u2019s some problem there. There\u2019s some water, we understand, we have to check that out, that comes in the wintertime because it\u2019s a subfloor is lower<\/em> than the street. And they don\u2019t have the heating uh, system that we had over where we are. I mean the wa\u2013 hot water heating systems. They have some things that are very sound. It\u2019s built like the proverbial brick outhouse. The frame, its\u2013 its drop\u2013 what do they call it\u2013 well, what do they call it\u2013 what do they call \u201cdrop\u201d uh, they just\u2013 they just perfectly girded everywhere, steel girders to the top of that dome. Even the lights are fixed in a very extraordinary way. You can pull \u2018em out and\u2013 from the top of the attic. The attic could make a whole big\u2013 Well, it\u2019s as big as this room here. Could be made into apartments, I suppose, somewhere. I think that would be a little\u2013 You\u2019d have to look at the support<\/em>, but it\u2019s really built. They\u2019re maybe factors there from the lower\u2013 the low floor. Biggest<\/em> factor is our neighbors and their paranoia. That\u2019s the thing that bothers me about it, for you. I<\/em> don\u2019t care. I like a good uh, confrontation any day. But some of you need to think that through. Now we need to think this through tonight before we finish here with the healing service. We need to think this through seriously.<\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation: <\/strong>Father?<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation: <\/strong>(too soft) (tape edit)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What did you say, honey? Well, we\u2019re not\u2013 we\u2019re not look\u2013 (tape edit) after you look certainly, that\u2019s uh\u2013 (clears throat) we want to do\u2013 we want to consider about\u2013 a building<\/em> from the standpoint if nothing else than just the resale of it, because if we go to tear it down, it\u2019s naturally uh\u2013 The lot now<\/em> is not as valuable as it would be with a building on it, it would seem to me. (tape edit) Every aspect of the building that would make value. The thing could be built to be a warehouse and can sell\u2013 we can sell it, and move some other area. We want to look at every alternative. I uh, think that uh, we\u2019re not seeking beauty per se. We do<\/em> want practicality. We\u2019ve got to have some space, we\u2019ve got to have the facilities, and I want better exits than we ever had before. I never did like the exits set up on that thing. This place is for somebody to fry<\/em>, and I want to\u2013 I want a much<\/em> better exit system than we had. But get me the rundown on what it will cost to uh\u2013 to replace it. Now as far as a worship<\/em> center, we\u2019ve had more attendance here today in this<\/em> building, \u2018cause it\u2019s a large building. We\u2019ve had more attendance here<\/em> than we had over there. I don\u2019t know whether it\u2019s a parking factor, just the newness? We\u2019ll see in a c\u2013 in another weekend or so, but we filled this Temple this\u2013 this morning. And we used to have to come here once a month<\/em> to do that. [If] We came more than that, we wouldn\u2019t fill it. And we\u2019ve been here three days in a row and practically filled it each night, but we filled it to capacity this morning with people standing. And not the old day when we had half of them not our members but just tramping through, so we can get by as far as an auditorium space here. (Clears throat) We need a place for a work<\/em> center. We need a place for our secretarial work. We need a place for lodging<\/em>. But we\u2019re not immediately pressed to go jumping into quick decisions for worship centers. Do you think?<\/p>\n

Voices in Congregation: <\/strong>No.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> How many find this suitable at least?<\/p>\n

Voices in Congregation: <\/strong>(too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> The only thing I\u2019m (stumbles over words) insist when the uh\u2013 October comes, and November and it gets cooler, is that you have to have a heating engineer. That don\u2019t work, and then that\u2019s expensive. You gotta have heat<\/em> in this place. Older people don\u2019t uh\u2013 It\u2013 It did very well when there was heat in here. Ask John what that adds to it when we have heat in this place. He\u2019s back there now. \u2018Cause we\u2019ve been bargaining and got some very considerate custodian, and we\u2019ll do all we can to help him<\/em> too. (clears throat). But actually it\u2019s a fact now \u2013 it\u2019s sad to say \u2013 where people waste and\u2013 uh, and put stuff down the toilets over there, use electricity, stop up our sewage. We can be here cheaper than we can be there. And have a parking lot, under surveil\u2013 under secure valiance s\u2013 under s\u2013 absolute<\/em> security. Do you hear what I\u2019m saying? It\u2019s a fact. People waste<\/em>. The upkeep of a building is nothing\u2013 no small item<\/em>. Now I think people have a tradition of needing a building. [I] Think we do have to have our building. We have to have some center here, but what do we want<\/em> with that center? What are we seeking in<\/em> a center? (clears throat) You want to think over these things now, you see. We have to house those people there that were living in communal. We want that to continue and we\u2019d like to see it expand, \u2018cause that\u2019s the perfect life. Not the perfect life for endurance, you gotta pay a price of sacrifice, but that\u2019s the perfect goal we should aim for. (Pause) But there are bad factors about that neighborhood. One fact is that they\u2019re gonna\u2013 they\u2019ve given up\u2013 they\u2019ve\u2013 they\u2019ve given up on the zoning there. They thought they were gonna put a commercial center, but we\u2019ve gotten through some reasonable (clears throat) high level uh, information. I don\u2019t think I can say any more than that, but if they\u2019re gonna put right behind us a 15-floor low cost cheap housing. And you know what that\u2019s gonna mean (unintelligible word). They\u2019re gonna throw their beer cans out on our t\u2013 on our roof or whatever. (Pause) That\u2019s what it seems to me, that they\u2019ll be 15 floors of cheap housing going up behind us. The thing that was promised by the city is not gonna get done. There was gonna\u2013 It was supposed to be a commercial center. But the Japanese Culture Center is losing money by leaps and bounds, losing it by the barrel loads. The only\u2013 the only reason the Japanese Culture Center is continuing? The nation of Japan is feeding money in it to keep it going. It\u2019s true. It\u2019s losing money, and would\u2013 they would go out of business if it wasn\u2019t for Japan. Japan<\/em> has to send money over here to keep that Japanese Culture Center going. That\u2019s how bad that neighborhood is\u2013<\/p>\n

End of Side 1<\/strong><\/p>\n

Side 2<\/strong><\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013it going. That\u2019s how bad<\/em> that neighborhood is, (Clears throat) as far as economics are concerned. It\u2019s just the out picturing of the\u2013 the society that doesn\u2019t believe in proper distribution of its wealth, just vicious capitalism, big business. They don\u2019t want any black business there. So that promised black commercial supermarket and so forth and complex, uh, what do they call uh, uh, I\u2019m not saying, supermarket uh, shopping center, it seems to be tabled, so you need to know all that\u2019s there. Now it\u2019s gonna be a while before they get \u2018em, but they\u2019re already tearing out the houses. And the way the city does things, I tell you, it\u2019s just pitiful. They tore out all the fencing behind the lot. Big steel fences, and they just tore it down with a bulldozer. Haven\u2019t got a bit of sense. People don\u2019t care about anything, \u2018cause that\u2019s the way it is in this society. We don\u2019t have cooperation, we got competition. Did you look at the f\u2013 the yard, the field behind us? Those bulldozers came in there and tore down a house and literally tore up that beautiful steel fence, just gnarled it up. Look<\/em> and see.<\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Look out over the back of us. It\u2019s a depressed<\/em> area. (Pause) Sickest place I suppose in San Francisco. (Clears throat) But that<\/em> doesn\u2019t bother me, that\u2019s where we\u2019re needed, but one thing does<\/em> bother me is a bunch of fools<\/em> that run around over there.<\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Can\u2019t get them to speak to you, can\u2019t get any cooperation. They\u2019re scared to death like a bunch of scared rabbits runnin\u2019. And uh\u2013 even suggested (unintelligible word) we gonna be careful, we\u2013 I have a confrontation out here in the street. I\u2019m tired of fighting with\u2013 it\u2019s (emphatic) a sad day when you got to think about fighting brothers.<\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I\u2019m not worried about fighting brothers, \u2018cause we ever fight, honey we\u2019ll\u2013 we\u2019ll\u2013 we\u2019ll come out, but I don\u2019t want anybody hurt.<\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Pause<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2018Cause there\u2019s not\u2013 It\u2019s not the leader some of\u2013 one of the leaders has been very, very hospitable, other than he\u2019s really concerned that he won\u2019t get burned down. But I mean we tried to talk to some of those people, and there\u2019s no talking. They\u2019re like the Ku Klux Klan, they won\u2019t talk. They got their fill with hate. They think they\u2019re better than other people waiting\u2013 Oh well, I don\u2019t want to go into that. (clears throat) Enough has been said. Now of course, wherever you go, you got some problems, but it would be nice if we\u2013 we wouldn\u2019t have to worry in some areas as much. That\u2019s one thing I like about here<\/em>, you don\u2019t get mugged. We can take our people to and from. You can get in here easier, you can come\u2013 That gate there could be open on Geary, and you can come right in through here. You can come right through that gate, or you can drive in here. Your car\u2019s certainly not gonna be bothered in here, because we can watch<\/em> them. Which we don\u2019t<\/em> have over there. And we got to talk some business here for just a little bit. It\u2019s 9:30, and we got to talk some business. We\u2019ve got to think this thing through. Now I can make a decision for you, but you should enter into decisions, so that we can begin to produce the leadership that needs to succeed me and go out into other churches and build<\/em> this kingdom of God, this apostolic socialism all over the earth. (tape edit) Yes, dear.<\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> 75,000 dollars, which would\u2019ve been doubled if people had listened to me.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> What about\u2013 (Jones Interrupts)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> 75,000\u2013 I want to say this before I\u2013 uh\u2013 We have 75,000 dollars coming. That\u2019s on the building. We have 15,000 dollars in personal property, which is ridiculous<\/em>. But it\u2019s 90,000, which [is] typical of churches. Some have even much less. We got 90,000 dollars coming out of the building. We paid 119[000] for it, but the land<\/em> under it supposedly is worth 80,000. That\u2019s a question though. And that means the buildings have to be gone, and of course that\u2019s a long-range plan<\/em>. And may\u2013 BART [Bay Area Rapid Transit] may come along. We\u2019ve also been doing a lot of looking. I\u2019ve been doing a lot of sleuthing, BART may come along and go right through<\/em> there. If that goes through there, then\u2013 then that lot would be valuable to us. And if it goes through there, everything\u2019s got to be torn down there. But there\u2019s a lot of ifs, and I bet it\u2019ll be ten years before we get it done.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> What about old the Clinton cafeteria? It has a ki\u2013 kitchen to eat downstairs. (unintelligible under jones)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Where\u2019s that at?<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> It\u2019s at\u2013 on Market Street near Seventh. It has quite a number of floors for apartments or whatnot. You could park underneath or on top of it.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Where\u2019s that at?<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> It\u2019s on Market Street near Seventh. It would be a\u2013 an ambitious uh, thing to take on and I\u2019m\u2013 I haven\u2019t seen the upstairs, it\u2013 it might be impossible, but it\u2019s something to\u2013 to look into.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Market and Seventh\u2019s a rugged area?<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> In a way, yes\u2013 (Jones interrupts).<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> No, I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t want it\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> \u2013 It\u2019s no worse than this\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s not as rugged as where we\u2019re at.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013 in a way, except that on Sundays, uh, being a business area, Sunday, it\u2019s very quiet. It\u2019s uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Yeah, I know.<\/p>\n

Woman and Jones talk over each other<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I think the chances of arson down there is much less likely, and you\u2019re closer\u2013 They\u2013 they don\u2019t want the downtown of their cities burned down, they\u2019ll get there faster.<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> It\u2019s uh\u2013 it\u2019s right near the Greyhound depot. It\u2019s a\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I don\u2019t seem to have that in my mind. I can\u2019t place it in my mind\u2013<\/p>\n

Woman:<\/strong> Well, as I say it\u2019s a\u2013 it\u2019s a\u2013 it\u2019s an ambitious project, but it\u2019s a thought.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Terribly expensive property, I imagine.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Stirs.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s a\u2013 it\u2019s a\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013 that\u2019s what we want, is your\u2013 your recommendations. We\u2019ll look into it tomorrow. We\u2019re looking in things. (Pause) Well, some have suggested we could go outside of San Francisco across the bridge (clears throat) and get some acres and build a project which would be more secure. But in San Francisco with our church here, we have more political strength, and that\u2019s important. You\u2019ve got the backing of some people. If we build outside of the city, we don\u2019t have that backing. I mean there\u2019s not much value having the mayor of Sarasota, whatever that\u2013 whatever that crazy\u2013 Sausalito. I don\u2019t know what good that\u2019d be (laughs) to have a mayor of Sausalito behind us. (Pause) (unintelligible word) I\u2019ll heat it\u2013 Well, that\u2019s all right. We can handle that. Yes, sir. We want you to come for\u2013 This is business and we want you to involve yourself tonight. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> Uh, Jim?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> You own the property there, right?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> We do, lock, stock and barrel. Let\u2019s burn\u2013<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> Head down, build it back, and run \u2018em out.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> Head down\u2013<\/p>\n

(Pause)<\/p>\n

(Man and Jones crosstalk)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Uh, it\u2019s a policy that the worker holds it, hon. Would you let her do that? Thank you. (clears throat)<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> Head down and\u2013 and build it back. Run them out.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Run who<\/em> out?<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> They don\u2019t want to co\u2013 cooperate with you? Stay. Don\u2019t move.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I\u2013 uh, it\u2019s all right, but when you start running, when you talk about running out, you gonna have a fight.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> Fight. I been fighting for three years.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, I like to fight when it\u2019s got some sense<\/em>, you know. I like to fight the honkey. I like to fight Mickey Mouse, I like to fight the rich. And I never have seen much sense in fighting amongst black people. I never thought there was much sense to that.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Scattered applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> But I\u2013 I\u2013 I appreciate what you\u2019re saying. I never\u2013 I\u2019ve always figured the way you deal with people who got a Ku Klux Klan mentality, is to leave them alone or prepare to get uh\u2013 to have to kill \u2018em all. Now that\u2019s what I found with the Klu Klux Klan. You understand what I\u2019m talking about? People who are filled with race hate, you don\u2019t\u2013 you don\u2019t convert them. It finally comes to blow by blow. And I\u2019ve seen hate in the Ku Klux Klan, but we converted them along the South. But some of these folks, I never saw anything like it. I think there\u2019s more<\/em> hate even in some of the black<\/em> groups now, more unreasonable<\/em> hate.<\/p>\n

Voices in Congregation:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s really\u2013 really uh, a\u2013 a sad thing. I think we should<\/em> hate the system. And I think we should hate the oppressor<\/em>. And I think we should hate the man that has taken advantage of us, but when we get\u2013 when we call somebody, like sister that I had to run down there and run up in that church and straighten out, when we call a\u2013 a light-complected black sister a yellow bitch and knock down a camera and stomp on it, boy, I mean that\u2019s insanity. There no use to look at it any other way. It\u2019s just insanity.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Scattered applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> There\u2019s a fight on the front of those parking spaces all the time. Have to fight all the time, to keep your parking spaces free. It\u2019s a runnin\u2019 battle, and the man, as I say, next door got his\u2013 he got\u2013 he nearly got his brains beat out. But I\u2013 I try to bring peace<\/em> there, I try to bring peace. But there\u2019s some trouble brewing over that. He\u2019s going to the grand jury. The leader of the church next door that was beat half to death. He said he\u2019s gonna get\u2013 he\u2019s gonna get an exposure to that if he has to go to the grand jury. He couldn\u2019t get anybody to come to do anything about it, so he\u2019s going\u2013 he\u2019s getting one police inspector that\u2019s interested in it and\u2013 I tried to bring peace. And they said, well, he was\u2013 he said something to one of our sisters. I went down to talk to him about that. I warned<\/em> them, but there was no apologies made, but he was beat with a claw hammer until he was half dead. Now we saw it.<\/p>\n

Voices in Congregation:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (short laugh) We\u2013 Yeah, we did<\/em> see it.<\/p>\n

Voice<\/strong> in<\/strong> Congregation: <\/strong>(too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> They\u2013 they ought to know we\u2019re uh\u2013 their friends \u2018cause we could\u2019ve been really difficult. I told my sisters to\u2013 well, not get involved. I didn\u2019t want to bring any harm to them. I don\u2019t like to see black people get (unintelligible word). But he said yesterday<\/em> that he\u2019s got a\u2013 he\u2019s gonna get a grand jury hearing. Maybe that\u2019ll uh\u2013 come\u2013 but I\u2013 I don\u2019t like to get in these kinds of s\u2013 squabbles for your<\/em> sake. (clears throat) Some of our people right in the middle of that squabble too. \u2018Cause some of the people witnessed him being beat up\u2013 beat half to death. He was beat, so two of my sisters say, without provocation. I\u2019ve tried to keep them out of it, but if worse came to worse and they go subpoenaing witnesses, those sisters\u2019ll be there. They said he was beat with a claw hammer till he was practically dead. In broad daylight. (Pause) Now I<\/em> think it\u2019s safer in Redwood Valley than that.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Stirs, then applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Now I\u2019m not saying we\u2019re not gonna do something in San Francisco, \u2018cause we are. We\u2019re not gonna be run out of here. But I mean, we\u2019ve got rednecks up there, but I\u2019ve never seen whites<\/em> that\u2019s uh\u2013 that we couldn\u2019t uh\u2013 get some place to back them<\/em> off. (Pause) And they call themselves black capitalist, acting like that. I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t know\u2013<\/p>\n

Voice<\/strong> in<\/strong> Congregation:<\/strong> Black Brothers.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Hmm?<\/p>\n

Voice<\/strong> in<\/strong> Congregation:<\/strong> Black Brothers.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Man<\/strong> 2: <\/strong>I been called Black Brothers for three years. I been called Black Brothers for three years.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What\u2019s that mean?<\/p>\n

Man 2:<\/strong> From all of these fellas around in the neighborhood. I got a feasibility study. All you have to do is take a feasibility study of the neighborhood. Go out and have them to come in and\u2013 and get something done. Let them do it for you. They call you\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Now explain yourself. You\u2019re using a little uh, semantics, so people wouldn\u2019t understand, hon.<\/p>\n

Man<\/strong> 2:<\/strong> Well, I have some paperwork here, Jim, a lot of it and I can show you on paper.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> To what?<\/p>\n

Man2<\/strong>: What the area is\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, what is it?<\/p>\n

Man<\/strong> 2:<\/strong> A feasibility study.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, go ahead what\u2013 what\u2013 what did you\u2013 what did you uh\u2013 Where is the attorneys out here? Let\u2019s look at what he\u2019s got there. (voice rises) The attorneys, where are these attorneys? (Pause) Last time I saw Tim [Stoen], he was having a joyous time up there praising, and I appreciated it. (Pause) Oh, they\u2019re taking down that uh, that story for the newspaper. Gene [Eugene Chaikin]? Gene? Can you get up here and somebody go with this feasibility thing, \u2018cause we\u2019re getting all kinds of reports on what\u2019s going on, and we need to hear. This man, he\u2019s done a feasibility study. Can you get up here, uh, Gene? Gene? You won\u2019t be able to get it down there on a seat, honey. It won\u2019t come to you by the Spirit.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Laughter.<\/p>\n

(Pause)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He\u2019s a good sport. (Pause) Yes? (Clears throat)<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong> 2:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 It\u2019s my\u2013 It\u2019s my opinion, I was very hasty on my vote. You know, it\u2019s very easy when we say, okay, let\u2019s go fight, you know, \u2018cause we\u2019re a bunch of\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Particularly it\u2019s easy for you, \u2018cause you live in Redwood Valley.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Laughter and applause<\/p>\n

Woman 2:<\/strong> (laughs) Right, I know it\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(laughs) I\u2019m just being funny.<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong> 2: <\/strong>That is beautiful.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You\u2019re not a coward, I know you\u2019re not.<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong> 2:<\/strong> That is true, though. You know, it\u2019s easy for us in Redwood Valley to say that, because we\u2019re not living down here in the ghettoes and in the poor situation\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah, we\u2019re only here on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays.<\/p>\n

Woman 2:<\/strong> Right. And then also a lot of these mothers here in the ghettoes, you know, they\u2019re old<\/em>, you know, I\u2019m sure they\u2019ll throw their pots and pans. But when it gets right down to it\u2013 it is Jim Jones that does the fighting and uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>It was me<\/em> that run up in that Muslim temple, I know.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Calls and applause.<\/p>\n

Woman 2:<\/strong> And you know it\u2019s true<\/em> that we are\u2013 The day will come when we\u2019ll have to fight. And we\u2013 and right now we have to stand brave. But I think the object of this ministry is also to be peaceful<\/em> and to love to learn our\u2013 to love our neighbor, and it\u2019s not easy.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I think something\u2013 You bring up some points if you don\u2019t mind me interject. Now I think that we could possibly have a healthy respect for each other, if we weren\u2019t so close, but they\u2019re threatened by our side. They were threatened, that we had 200 people out there guarding our building. Oh, they\u2013 they\u2013 the leaders said our peop\u2013 He<\/em> wasn\u2019t\u2013 but he said you\u2019ve got 200 of your people out there, and they\u2019re organized, and it\u2019s causing us paranoia on a part of our people, and we could have a confrontation. He\u2019s<\/em> been very kind, one of the\u2013 the captains. I don\u2019t know, the one leader I never see him, Muhammad. I don\u2019t see him. I saw him one time. He (stumbles over words)\u2013 he must be out riding his Rolls-Royce. I haven\u2019t seen him.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Subdued laughter.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> But (clears throat) I\u2019m talking about the captain that carries on the responsibilities of the work. But this thing\u2013 this kind of talk\u2013 I mean how\u2013 how can we be threatening, watching our own property. So we got 200 people. We didn\u2019t have that many, but they\u2019re threatened because we got the same little thing they\u2019ve<\/em> got now. They\u2019ve had those little [walkie-] talkies for a long while. Now we\u2019ve got talkies because we need them. We didn\u2019t get talkies \u2018cause they had them, or we woulda got \u2018em long time ago. We seen them run up and down with their talkies. But we\u2019ve got them, because we now know, we need<\/em> them.<\/p>\n

Voice<\/strong> in<\/strong> Congregation:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And I\u2019d said we needed them, and now we\u2019ve got around to getting\u2019 them\u2013 getting them. So\u2013 Uh, but it\u2019s just strange. The one\u2013 one of the assistants there said, we talked about dogs. He said, yeah, I know where to get the dog. And the other said, hush. That\u2019s what he said. One leader, one top leader started to tell us. He\u2019s very friendly to us, assistant to the captain, but he started to tell us where to get dogs, and they said hush, I mean, don\u2019t talk. And they be talking to us on the street, they\u2019re really weird.<\/p>\n

Woman 2:<\/strong> I know.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I be\u2013 I\u2019d go up\u2013 I\u2019d go up personally<\/em>, way with my guards, I was to show them no fear \u2018cause they seem to be scared to death. I\u2019d walk up by myself, and my people didn\u2019t want me to do it, but I\u2019d go clear up and I\u2019d walk with them and I\u2019d break down a little bit of it. But then along somebody come in a car, and they\u2019d have to\u2013 they\u2019d have to leave. They\u2019d\u2013 they\u2019d\u2013 they\u2019d beg my forgiveness and they\u2019d have to go, just like that. They couldn\u2019t talk to me anymore. Like I was gonna be able to convert them or take them away or something. I wasn\u2019t trying to convert anybody, just trying to communicate<\/em>, but I mean, these people are difficult to communicate with.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Stirs.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Now wake up, folk, \u2018cause I\u2019ve been through it yesterday. I spent all day yesterday trying to communicate with those folk. And you can get some place with an individual member, but somebody tells them to get away from us because I<\/em> think\u2013 I think it boils down to that they\u2019re threatened by our size. (Clears throat) Hmm?<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Stirs.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> They do\u2013 What\u2019s that? Well, it\u2019s obvious when they\u2013 the sister I raised from the dead. Where\u2019s our sister? Where\u2019s our sister that I\u2013 Sister Lewis. Huh? Now, look at Sister Lewis. Now that\u2019s the one they called a yellow bitch, right in the street. And that\u2019s when I\u2013 that\u2019s what caused me to run up in the Temple. Now they called her<\/em> a yellow bitch, come walking down, and that shows you. (Puase) Well, they called her a yellow bitch nonetheless. (Pause) I don\u2019t care what<\/em> the\u2013 Man, it\u2019s still that the\u2013 it shows a color consciousness. Why didn\u2019t they just call her a people\u2013 a dirty People Temples member. They called her a yellow bitch.<\/p>\n

Voices in<\/strong> Congregation:<\/strong> (too low)<\/p>\n

Man 3:<\/strong> That\u2019s true. They try to get every one of our members to come over to their Temple. They\u2019re tel\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well now\u2013 nobody\u2019s gonna go over there. I\u2013 I\u2019m not trying to get them converted, but none of us are fools enough to believe what they believe. They believe a spaceship\u2019s gonna come down and take them up.<\/p>\n

Man:<\/strong> Right. Every\u2013 every\u2013<\/p>\n

Voices:<\/strong> Laughs.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> They believe that 20 percent of them\u2019s gonna rule the 80 percent. And they\u2013 uh, they don\u2019t have any sense of socialistic principle. It\u2019s uh\u2013 everybody trying to get little bit more and have the highest dog and dress the better. They\u2013 they don\u2019t have any concept. None of our people gonna go for that. If we did, I\u2019d join it.<\/p>\n

Man 3:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I\u2013 I\u2019d be glad. I\u2019ll support them if they get in a fight. If they\u2019re being abused, I\u2019ll stand up for them, but I don\u2019t believe no spaceship\u2019s gonna lower and get anybody. That sounds like Jesus<\/em> doctrine again, warmed over.<\/p>\n

Man 3:<\/strong> It\u2019s uh\u2013 It\u2019s part of their custom of\u2013 if you won\u2019t buy their paper, they\u2019ll give you this, the one finger, or call you a name, and they have whole lot of\u2013 whole lot of our black sisters and<\/em> brothers that are lighter than what our sister there that they called a name, that are members of their organization.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, I would love to cooperate with them, but I say, uh, you know, in terms of working for justice<\/em>, but this idea of women can\u2019t go in the Temple when they\u2019re menstruating. Uh, men are awfully insecure to have that kind of a doctrine. Or the women have to follow you and all this kind of thing and all that garb. Uh, you almost stumble over all that garb, they got\u2013 I saw one little child had so much garb clear down around their feet that she couldn\u2019t hardly walk. I\u2013 I\u2013 I don\u2019t uh\u2013 That\u2019s all right, that\u2019s their bag, then\u2013 then I\u2019ll defend<\/em> their bag. And I\u2019ll defend their right, but I\u2019m not gonna join it, because I see them with\u2013 them out there with Rolls-Royces, and that\u2019s just the old white system all over again.<\/p>\n

Voice<\/strong> in<\/strong> Congregation:<\/strong> Amen.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> The leaders with their Rolls-Royces. I don\u2019t want to get into anything where leaders have got Rolls-Royce\u2019s. I\u2019m not interested in that. Why, even the Baptist have only Cadillacs. Said the Baptist preacher\u2019s only got a Cadillac, but a Rolls-Royce\u2013 they got a Rolls-Royce for their leader with a closed\u2013 with a close circuit TV in it.<\/p>\n

Voice<\/strong> in<\/strong> Congregation: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> That thing\u2019s worth $40,000. I\u2019m not gonna join that mess. Now they better leave me alone. I\u2019m not joining that mess. And I\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2019m not trying to get any of them to join here. That I\u2013 I\u2019m not wanting any of \u2018em. \u2018Cause somebody\u2019s teaching them to hate, and I don\u2019t like blind hate.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I believe in hating evil<\/em>, and I believe in fighting people when they\u2019re doing something to you. But I do not believe in hating people because of the color of their skin. I\u2013 I fought that in the Ku Klux Klan, I burned my own relatives\u2019 Ku Klux Klan clothes. I burned them up when I was only six years of age. I set fire<\/em> to them, and by God, I didn\u2019t come to San Francisco to get the same kind of thing dressed up and called Black Muslims.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Hates hate. Judge people on the basis of their\u2013 the merit of their own works. Look at that precious white woman sitting back there in that back row. She\u2019s been the most generous<\/em> to give us money to get food for Biafra and to help our works. That white woman back there, that Irish lady in the white (unintelligible word). Like Jane Mutschmann and all these white workers. Some of the white workers work so very<\/em>, very hard, they\u2019ve become black in consciousness. They fight for freedom. Our Mexican people and our Indians. I cannot buy<\/em> that and I won\u2019t<\/em> buy it. I will not<\/em> buy it. I will die<\/em> before I buy it.<\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I know how hard it is to get people uh, converted. We know how many whites are honkeys and how they behave. But as long as there\u2019s one<\/em> honkey in a thousand<\/em> that acts right, I\u2019ll give him a chance. I\u2019m not gonna judge everybody by the color of their skin.<\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> But I\u2013 there\u2013 I can over\u2013 I can hurdle that, \u2018cause all of us are mixed anyway. And there, as you say, Reverend Williams, (stumbles over words) they got some light. I saw a woman go in there yesterday that was so light she looked white. They do<\/em> have them going in there. But the thing I can\u2019t hurdle is the Rolls-Royces and this thing, the upper 20. I don\u2019t understand all of their doctrine, but I know they got an upper 20, they\u2019re working to be in the upper 20 that\u2019ll rule over the 80. I don\u2019t want none of that business. That\u2019s old capitalism. Progressive paper called them\u2013 Progressive paper\u2013 Labor Party call them black capitalist. And I think they do<\/em> teach that. And I don\u2019t think that\u2019s the answer. I think we need uh\u2013 Nobody gonna get to be black capitalist. Capitalists that are now uh, in power are gonna stay in power, and nobody\u2019s gonna give any of that power to the black or the Mexicans, and you just crazy to think it. There\u2019s gonna have to be some control<\/em> on wealth. I\u2019m not suggesting communism in that scale, or any other governmental plan or bureaucracy, I\u2019m afraid of s\u2013 all these would-be radical leaders today, they don\u2019t have a dedication, they just talk<\/em> socialism, they just talk<\/em> uh, change. I\u2013 I want to do it within their own\u2013\u00a0our own framework for the time being. I trust us. I really don\u2019t trust leaders outside. \u2018Cause I\u2019ve tried and I\u2019ve seen nothing but a\u2013 just a lot of hot air, but I do<\/em> say that we\u2019ll not gonna be able to unite with people who openly promote the system that\u2019s hurt us. No use to turn the thing around and have the same black system that\u2019s been so ugly when the whites have been doing it. Just because blacks start doing it, don\u2019t make it any nicer.<\/p>\n

Congregation:<\/strong> Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What I\u2019m saying is, big business has been evil. Big business has started wars. That young man [likely Tim Carter], we talked to him after the meeting. The horror<\/em> of Vietnam. He told<\/em> us \u2013 he\u2019s over there \u2013 how they bombed these people, get these Vietnamese, even our own allies in South Vietnam, get them in shelters and bombed them, burned them to death. Roll over \u2018em with tanks. Big business has been murder all over this country, and it\u2019s been murder when white men were doing it, and I don\u2019t want to turn around and make big business for black people\u2013 I want to get the\u2013 rid of this big monopoly capitalism, this terrible warmongering uh, big business system, that I want to see rid of. I don\u2019t want to see it turned around, because a black man with money\u2013 the love of money will be just as mean and nasty as a white man with it.<\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>(Clears throat) All right, I\u2019ve said enough on that subject.<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong> 3:<\/strong> I wanted to say, you know, like\u2013 the Temple that burned was a very pretty Temple, but this is a useful Temple. We\u2013 or\u2013 this is a useful\u2013 well, it is our Temple when we\u2019re here and we spent\u2013 we spent a long time in this uh, auditorium, and there were many great healings here. The dead were raised here\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Nah, you made your point honey.<\/p>\n

Woman 3:<\/strong> And\u2013 and\u2013 okay\u2013 and Father\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And I\u2013 I hear you saying, you want to stay in this\u2013 this church, is that what you\u2019re saying?<\/p>\n

Woman 3:<\/strong> Yes\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>Becau\u2013 Because we don\u2019t have time to talk all\u2013 all night on that subject.<\/p>\n

Woman 3:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Uh, uh, it has spoken I think in the last three days that uh, you\u2013 what you\u2019re saying. I\u2019m not\u2013 I just don\u2019t\u2013 don\u2019t dare get (unintelligible) of too many preaching, because we won\u2019t ever get a decision here tonight.<\/p>\n

Woman<\/strong> 3:<\/strong> Sorry. Sorry. Okay, can we mention the\u2013 can we mention the apartments that you mentioned, Father, again, like you mentioned that the land that maybe the mayor suggested cheap and\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, the mayor suggested some land that we will get. But that\u2019s right in the middle of same ghetto over there. (Pause) And the way we do things, I mean, I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t like dirt and filth. I don\u2019t like dirt and filth, and I know the system makes<\/em> that dirt and filth. But what I have, we\u2019d have to have the nicest and the cleanest and the best with landscaping. And I think we put up a spot like that in the midst of that? Then everybody else will be threatened, they\u2019ll be throwing rocks at us, \u2018cause you\u2019ll either have to take them in or they\u2019ll destroy what we got. And we\u2013 and people don\u2019t seem to want to join us, and so we\u2019re gonna build something nice. We\u2019re gonna have to go out in an area where\u2013 where it can be done, because you\u2019re sure not going to build the kind of thing I like to do in the midst of that section, \u2018cause people, they just\u2013 it\u2019s just a dog-eat-dog thing in these poor neighborhoods, black, white, or brown, that\u2019s the way it is. Just as soon throw a rock through you. Look at this schools. Look at those windows out there. (Pause) Just look at them. They got us defeated<\/em>, got us defeated. So we just tear down our own things. They wor\u2013 they work it so that we\u2019ll tear down our own win\u2013 just look out there, a big beautiful window, just nothing in here. Works. They broke that piano there, they had to lock up the piano. There\u2019s resentment, hostility, and we\u2019re killing ourselves, but if we build something nice like we like it, like we have in Redwood Valley, we put it in that ghetto, it\u2019ll be turned, they\u2019ll\u2013 they\u2019ll be throwing rocks at us because they\u2019ll be threatened. And I\u2019ll tell you something be doing it. Be organizers\u2013 be these jacklegs because they don\u2019t do anything but rob their people, and they\u2019ll be threatened, \u2018cause we got something right under their nose.<\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Look at their dungeon. Look at their old dirty churches these preachers have got. All they care is that nice shiny Cadillac, but their church dirty stinking. I was over there on Sutter Avenue to get that woman yesterday. Stinking<\/em>. Smelled like a slop pen. He\u2019s the head of the\u2013 You know who I\u2019m talking about. They don\u2019t even clean their own buildings, \u2018cause those preachers only interested in getting\u2019 the money out of it and the heck with the people. And of course, as I say, what incentive there is? If you\u2019re living right next to everything\u2019s dilapidated. They\u2019ve torn down<\/em> this whole neighborhood. They call it redevelopment. All I can see, it\u2019s redestruction.<\/p>\n

Voice<\/strong> in<\/strong> Congregation:<\/strong> Amen.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It\u2019s all looks to me like they\u2019ve done to Fillmore is just tear, tear down, tear down, tear down. And they burned out (unintelligible name, sounds like \u201cWaypack\u201d) right around the corner from us. That was arson. They\u2019ve burned down every\u2013 every agency\u2019s that tried to do something for the community, they burn them down. There\u2019s 59 fires this mon\u2013 month unsolved. Now I\u2013 I think too much of you\u2013 We\u2019ve offered a way of escape, and I\u2019m not gonna have to be uh, policeman<\/em> uh, to look after you people. I don\u2019t want to do this. We can, but I know places we can go. We don\u2019t have to work that hard to keep ourselves from getting burned down.<\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You notice they\u2019re not burning Grace Cathedral down on Nob Hill. So we\u2019ll just have to\u2013 have to take those things in consideration. And I think we can secure this. I don\u2019t like\u2013 I don\u2019t mind the neighborhood, but I want something we can secure. Where our cars are under our nose, \u2018cause this a mean, mean generation. That\u2019s why I like this particular spot. We can control<\/em> things. Our children can play in fenced areas. We could even leave them out there. They were gonna cut one of our children right in that park one day. One of our young men, Mutschmann w\u2013 couldn\u2019t get in that park. They put a knife to him, took $140 dollars off of him. Two white sisters walked up to that door, and somebody didn\u2019t open the door in time \u2013 at our Temple door \u2013 and they mugged<\/em> them right out in front of our Temple. Don\u2019t talk to me about it, it\u2019s mean. Surely you know it\u2019s mean, honey.<\/p>\n

Voices in<\/strong> Congregation:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I agree that there\u2019s streets in this town that you can\u2019t be\u2013 that\u2019s why I say\u2013 I\u2019m not just hitting the neighborhood. Here\u2019s a nice spot with a friendly school thus far. That\u2019s why I want to be sure we don\u2019t move till we know where we\u2019re going. Because we do<\/em> have things under control here. The thing that security needs to do is just to go through and to see that there\u2019s no dynamite bomb planted. Although I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m not worried about that immediately. I\u2019m not worried about that. They haven\u2019t go that to that degree\u2013 our enemies haven\u2019t gotten that degree. They\u2019re fighting with gasoline, \u2018cause they can\u2019t afford anything else. But (clears throat) uh, that\u2019s\u2013 that\u2013 that would be easily done in any church. They want to set a bomb off, they can do it anywhere. I think so, but uh\u2013 that isn\u2019t a fact that I really consider. I\u2019m just looking down the road \u2018cause this country\u2019s gone crazy. That\u2019s why I don\u2019t like invest in it too much.<\/p>\n

End of tape.<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

(Editor’s note: This tape was transcribed by Georgiana Mamlakah. Theeditors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.) To return to the Tape Index, click here. To read the Annotated Tape Transcript, click here. To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1,\u00a0Pt. 2). Jones: (unintelligible beginning) we come tripping in here, not once a […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":677,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-77986","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/77986","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=77986"}],"version-history":[{"count":8,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/77986\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":93527,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/77986\/revisions\/93527"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=77986"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}