{"id":85652,"date":"2019-02-13T16:18:57","date_gmt":"2019-02-14T00:18:57","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=85652"},"modified":"2023-07-11T17:09:01","modified_gmt":"2023-07-12T00:09:01","slug":"annotated-transcript-q1030","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=85652","title":{"rendered":"Annotated Transcript Q1030"},"content":{"rendered":"

(Editor\u2019s note: <\/strong>This tape was transcribed by Georgiana Mamlakah. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

To return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.
\nTo return to the Annotated Sermons page,\u00a0click here<\/a>.
\nTo read Tape Summary,\u00a0click here<\/a>. To read Tape Transcript,\u00a0click here<\/a>.
\nListen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>,\u00a0Pt. 2<\/a>)<\/p>\n

Several muffled sentences at head of tape.<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>I can\u2019t speak with a thorough\u00a0<\/em>understanding. If it is as I understand on occasion that some take the position that no\u00a0<\/em>white people can be trusted, I can empathize\u00a0<\/em>with that, but I think it is a gravely dangerous\u00a0<\/em>position to take. Let\u2019s just look at it pragmatically. Look at it from a practical standpoint. In a nation where there\u2019re 200 million people and 180 million are white, if all those whites are indeed devils, and you divide a line in which you cannot cooperate, it seems to me, that that kind of philosophy will lead to nothing but a dead end street. Twenty million people \u2013 I don\u2019t care if Allah or whoever\u2019s\u00a0<\/em>on their side \u2013 20 million people are not going to be able to defeat\u00a0<\/em>180 million people. There\u2019s no chance of that. Let\u2019s just look at it from a practical standpoint. If [one] wanted to be a tactical strategist on a battlefield. But I don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t intend to look at life like that. I know the backbone of this church, when we have been in Civil Rights fights, have not been any more black than white. Some of the most principled people \u2013 one of them ninety-some years of age sitting in this congregation somewhere, who has fought, Bea Whitna, who has fought for principles sitting back there, who\u2019s fought to the point of even going to jail, she\u2019s very much white, very much Irish, and I think it\u2019s stupid\u00a0<\/em>to make a categorization about any <\/em>race of people. That\u2019s what we\u2019ve been fighting. As an Indian, I\u2019ve been fighting that all my life, to say all Indians are bad or all blacks are bad, and I\u2013 I\u2013 in all due respect, and I respect the feeling of pride that the Nation of Islam has given, but when it says that all whites are\u2013 are wrong or bad or devils or (unintelligible word, sounds like \u201ccharlatans\u201d), then I say at that point I must wholeheartedly\u00a0<\/em>disagree.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Now we\u2013 we do all we can to foster peace<\/em>, and we feel that it is important\u00a0<\/em>to do so. For instance, we tell the people, there is someone in our halls every evening from the Nation of Islam selling their paper. They were in the streets. We said, no. Come inside<\/em>. We welcome you. We don\u2019t want you to feel that alienation that you\u2019ve known in the past. We welcome you inside\u00a0<\/em>to sell your piece of paper or your news or your periodical. And the black self-help store, we feel that that\u2019s very good in this neighborhood. We need to give all kinds of encouragement to black businesses, and we feel we should help one another. And when we wanted\u2013 uh, when we want to choose something to eat, if you uh, would follow the general consensus of the council here and the leadership, we say go down to that lovely little shop that\u2019s run by the Muslims on the corner. But just because I buy their sandwiches or buy their paper does not mean that I buy everything they preach.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>(Clears throat) Now I don\u2019t know whether I answer your particular persuasion, but I\u2013 I\u2013 I feel it\u2019s foolhardy, in fact I\u2013 I\u2013 I feel\u2013 I\u2013 I feel it\u2019s tragedy<\/em>, because they are doing so many wonderful\u00a0<\/em>things, and they have encompassed now people of my\u00a0<\/em>background. I could become a Muslim tomorrow. I\u2019ve been invited to see uh, the Messenger, [Elijah] Muhammad, and I may very well do\u00a0<\/em>that, because I certainly want to get to know everyone in various straight and\u2013 and walks of life, and as I was speaking the other day with Dr. [Carlton] Goodlett, no doubt\u00a0<\/em>history will show that Mr. Mu\u2013 Mr. Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah as he sees himself, has done more\u00a0<\/em>I suppose than any person today to give black people a sense of pride and cohesiveness. He has built communities and businesses, and he\u2019s inspired a feeling of pride, I think, that all\u00a0<\/em>of us look to with great satisfaction.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Murmur assent<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>And I cannot really say that they\u2019re preaching\u00a0<\/em>hate. I hear\u00a0<\/em>that they preach hate. I do not know\u00a0<\/em>that they preach hate. I know when I met with the local representative, the representative, John\u00a0<\/em>Muhammad, and we ate uh, at their request at a restaurant, with Mr. [Tim] Stoen, who is Caucasian, finely-committed man, and another Caucasian\u2013 black person was in\u2013 it was\u2013 it was [an] integrated group, I sensed no racial hostilities. I think many of their conclusions have been formed because they feel\u00a0<\/em>from their own empirical of experiential evidence that whites cannot be trusted. I think if more white people would make an attempt\u00a0<\/em>to show the Muslims they could\u00a0<\/em>be trusted, the Muslims might change some of their attitudes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>I think we have\u2013 we have to waken to the fact \u2013 and I\u2019m\u2013 as I\u2013 sure I look down upon those who are interracially married, and I know in my own black\u2019s\u2013 adopted son [Jim Jones, Jr.]\u2013 Some of you can\u2019t possibly\u00a0<\/em>know what this is, unless you are either black and then even more so\u2013 uh, people\u2013 uh, uh, the former speaker, who uh, he and his wife have lived these beautiful years, twenty s\u2013 they had to be in love. You can\u2019t live, an interracial couple can\u2019t live 25, 26, 27 years, they really\u00a0<\/em>have to have something on the ball, or they won\u2019t stay together that long.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Murmurs<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Because most of the marriages that I\u2019ve known who\u2019ve attempted to cross ethnic lines, it\u2019s a tough battle to hurdle. Uh, you\u2013 you\u2019re\u2013 You\u2019ll find yourself uncomfortable\u2013 Unfortunately and tragically, you find yourself uncomfortable, not only sometimes in the white\u00a0<\/em>world, but I know interracial couples who are here who have gone to black\u00a0<\/em>churches, and the white\u00a0<\/em>partner has been shunned in black churches just as well as the black person has been shunned in the white community.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Murmurs<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>And I think we need to re\u2013 We\u2013 We need to be vividly aware of these racial antipathies. No use to go around with an Uncle Tomish attitude and say that they don\u2019t exist. No use to try to make us uh, uh, believe at this hour, with my\u00a0<\/em>background of experiences, that race\u00a0<\/em>doesn\u2019t enter into every arena. For instance, I know of all kinds of uh\u2013 of\u2013 of ministers who are doing nothing\u00a0<\/em>for their people. Driving in expensive cars. I only own one suit, and it\u2019s a used suit. I own one\u00a0<\/em>suit to my name. You see it. Every time you see it. Same tie, same suit. And recently we saw what a newsman\u00a0<\/em>[Lester Kinsolving] can do. Now I\u2019m confident that if I had been white<\/em>, and this church had been middle class white<\/em>\u2013 But because we were doing something for the average\u00a0<\/em>man, reaching the black and the brown and the poor whites, that newsman took potshots and risked\u2013 Oh, didn\u2019t risk, he told fabrications \u2013 that\u2019s what I\u2019ll call them, let him sue me for slander if it\u2018s not true \u2013 he lied faster than a horse could trot. And I\u2019m sure that he would\u2019ve never taken such an attack on someone that was in the establishment\u00a0<\/em>position of being white<\/em>. There would\u2019ve never been those attacks, because I\u00a0<\/em>know of ministers that he coulda picked on, if he wants to look at dishonesty. I\u00a0<\/em>know some ministers that have not adopted eight children as I have. I<\/em>know some that are driving around new cars. I don\u2019t even own\u00a0<\/em>one. I know some that are not helping their people to have four senior citizens homes, four college dormitories, two convalescent sanatoriums, and uh, the children\u2019s home,, and all this humane work that we do. I know plenty\u00a0<\/em>that they could\u2019ve picked on, if they wanted to be looking for dishonesty. But the fact was that it\u2019s all right when the man that\u2019s already on the end is prospering. When the Man\u00a0<\/em>is prospering, it\u2019s fine, but when somebody comes along, an old common engine like me, and tells us that it\u2019s time that blacks and browns prosper too, some\u00a0<\/em>folk don\u2019t like it, and some of them are in pretty high places.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>That\u2019s why I\u2019ve taken with a good\u2013 a good eye and a good look at uh, Deputy Mayor [Joe] Johnson and his freedom\u00a0<\/em>to serve the community. And I<\/em>wouldn\u2019t have\u2013 I\u2013 I told Mr. [Joseph] Alioto, I said, Mr. Alioto, and I support you. I would\u2013 No, I would\u2019ve supported Mr. Alioto if I hadn\u2019t met Mr. Johnson. And I felt I should lay the cards just like that, because I\u2019m tired, as the man said, I\u2019m tired of poetry, I\u2019m tired of words. I uh\u2013 I got all kinds of people giving me all kinds of uh, verbiage you know, they\u2019re giving all kinds of hot air, but I\u2013 it\u2019s about\u2013 about time I saw some people putting legs on their prayers, and putting some action behind their words.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>(calls out) I\u2019ve often heard it said, it\u2019s good to preach Christ, but more so to live<\/em>Christ in deeds and actions.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>(Moderates) And so when I walk into that, uh\u2013 that reception the other day, which I\u2019m sure<\/em>I was there because of the community concern of Mr. Johnson. I said to M\u2013 Mayor Alioto, I said I am convinced\u00a0<\/em>to support you and your community endeavors because\u00a0<\/em>of this man, because I see here a black man with his talents being recognized and permitted to function, and uh, that\u2019s where we need to stick our\u2013 ourselves together, stand together, because united we stand and divided we fall.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>And I think we also need to know that things aren\u2019t getting better, just because we say\u00a0<\/em>they\u2019re getting better. And we don\u2019t need to uh, be like a ostrich with his hand in the proverbial uh\u2013 his\u2013 his neck in the proverbial sand. We have\u00a0<\/em>to recognize that yellow journalism is not dead. I thought\u00a0<\/em>it was, hoped\u00a0<\/em>it was, but just in September 16, I found out that people can lie, and they can do it under the cover of liars with affidavits. Everyone that was quoted in that newspaper had a police record. Every one. Every one, from morals charges to immorality against their children. One of them, you heard by her testimony here, was molested when she was a child and then schizophrenic withdrawal. Now she\u2019s one of the finest nurses in our community. But her father had made her ill. But the paper<\/em>\u2013 This reverend \u2013 so-called \u2013\u00a0picked\u00a0<\/em>up the ilk of this type of man who had everything\u00a0<\/em>to gain by maligning us, because I guess he was afraid we would tell what we knew about him.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Quiet murmurs<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>And so he bombarded the public with terrible, terrible things. Racist\u00a0<\/em>things. Did you see their innuendo? We say\u2013 Peoples Temple says, don\u2019t have your natural born children, and every young couple, the moment they come in, they\u2019re not permitted to have their white children, they must adopt a black child. Now what do you think they were trying to do? (raise voice) What do you think that kind of maneuver is attempting to do? Obvious\u00a0<\/em>racism. And when they printed the headlines, on that particular day, our church was about 60% white on that particular day, and it said all\u2013 nearly all black. The headlines. What do you think they\u2019re attempting to do? A certain discrediting that\u2019s there, and I\u2019m not\u2013 I\u2019m certainly very glad for whatever the majority we have that are black. I wouldn\u2019t change\u2013 trade places with s\u2013 all those folks that are proud of the fact that they\u2019re white. I\u2019m only\u00a0<\/em>with those people today that are white who realize the sin\u00a0<\/em>of what the white man has done and wants to make restitution for it. To those<\/em>, I can walk with them and love\u00a0<\/em>them and cooperate\u00a0<\/em>with them, but anybody that walks in here that\u2019s so proud of being white, I think you ought to take another look at your\u00a0<\/em>history.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Now I uh, speak on my\u00a0<\/em>own behalf. The persons who have spoken before me do not<\/em>share my opinions, they\u2019re just here as guests of the community. I always feel that uh\u2013 it was most important to say that when I\u2019ve got newsmen\u00a0<\/em>around, uh, not that I have any\u2013 any question about uh\u2013 There was no prior arrangement for anyone to come, just a community gesture that people in uh, uh, uh, the various officials will visit the church. We had last week the senator, a\u2013 a\u2013 a very fine senator that was in our ranks, and we had a congressman, and they come repeatedly<\/em>. That does not mean that they\u2019re necessarily in support of our views, but I think\u00a0<\/em>that I have to give you an honest answer, and my honest answer, what do I feel about the Muslims\u2019 position on race is thoroughly this. I cannot absolutely say because I\u2019m not there, but if it is indeed true that they say all white men are devils, I cannot believe this. I believe that human beings, some are devils, some are angels, mostly in between.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Stirs<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Mostly in-between.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>And I want to remind you too, that some\u2013 the times when people were needed to serve\u00a0<\/em>their fellow beings and go into the courts and go to jail in the early days of our church movement. You look around at some of the white faces here. They were there. When Civil Rights was so questionable back there in the Midwest, when they threw human feces, and they threw garbage, and they put dynamite, and they marked swastikas on our doors, sliced our tires, put sugar in our gas tanks, stole our batteries, took our wheels off, I want you to know that the people that stood there<\/em>, 95 percent of them were whites that took that battle on, and (emphatic) they never let down, not one moment.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>And if you think I\u2019m going to come along with some philosophy and say that all whites are devils, I will not do\u00a0<\/em>that. I don\u2019t accept it. I just can\u2019t accept that. I\u2013 I have a reason\u00a0<\/em>to be hurt. My people, my background have suffered just like anyone else that\u2019s a minority race, and sometimes you wonder who you can trust, and we know very well. I\u2019m sure people who\u2019ve been in a official capacity. I\u2019ve been a government commissioner on human rights, and I could tell h\u2013 how they would treat me, when I\u2019d walk in alone, when I walked in with my son. I\u2019m sure that people here who have interracial marriages can know\u00a0<\/em>the difference sometimes that they feel, and sometimes it\u2019s a\u2013 it has a cutting edge that you feel like you\u2013 you could hardly stand\u00a0<\/em>it. I am not asleep\u00a0<\/em>to the fact that there is still too much racism in this society, but I know one thing, that we cannot have a war between 180 million whites and 20 million blacks. That\u2019s suicide<\/em>.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>That\u2019s suicide. And when you teach racial superiority, whether it be black or white, if you teach that one race is superior to another<\/em>, you\u2019ve got the same old devil reversed. And it\u2019ll lead to the same kind of problems, the same kind of trouble, and the same kind of end road self-destruction. Thank you. Anyone else that has a question?<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Female 1:\u00a0<\/strong>What is your feeling on capital punishment, now that [cut off by Jones]<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>What is my view on capital punishment?<\/span><\/p>\n

Female 1:\u00a0<\/strong>(inaudible)<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Hmph. Now as a pastor<\/em>, that\u2019s what gets me in all of this trouble<\/em>. I\u2019m not supposed to get into these fields of legislation, but I invariably get these questions, and I\u2019ll honor them. What do I think about capital punishment? Well, I\u2019ll speak what the scriptures says. It\u2013 Thou shalt not kill.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Light applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>That\u2019s what it says. Thou shalt not kill\u00a0[Exodus 20:13, Deuteronomy 5:17].<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>I say that there\u2019re some things that you need to look for. Now, under present democratic processes, and I think that we\u2019ve got a lot of civil libertarians\u2013 uh, civil libertarians that still functioning in American society, but the statute of California says that there are certain crimes punishable by death. One of the them, a very vague\u00a0<\/em>thing called treason\u00a0<\/em>against the state\u00a0<\/em>of California. (short laugh) Now that bothers me. Who is the state of California? Today, it\u2019s safeguarded by the checks and balances systems of the legislature, the legislative branch and the executive and the Supreme Court. But if tomorrow, a demagogue comes along in California politics and begins to take over the court by appointments of rascals, like we\u2019re seeing in some instances in various places in the world and the legislature might be said, because some crisis in our civil life, uh, not necessarily\u2013 (microphone static) Don\u2019t bother with uh, any of this uh, for the moment, will you please, now I\u2019ll\u2013 don\u2019t bother that. So if you\u2013 If as in the Philippines for instance, the legislature\u2019s been s\u2013 uh, told that it\u2019s not needed for the time being because of an emergency. I would hate like the dickens to think that Governor [Ronald] Reagan was going to decide what would be treason against the state of California.<\/span><\/p>\n

Voices in congregation: <\/strong>Right<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>That\u2019d be my own opinion<\/em>. I\u2019d hate\u2013 and he\u2019s\u00a0<\/em>not a bad guy, in the sense that I think he uh\u2013 he\u2019s written letters of complementary nature to our work. In a lot of ways he shares some real good principles, but he is too much authortarian [authoritarian] for me. I wouldn\u2019t want him deciding who has committed treason against the state of California. So that\u2019s what I\u2013 I told one of my good friends. I\u2019ve got a good friend up there in Redwood Valley. You get strange friends in the midst of a battle. You know who come to our rescue? Uh\u2013 You\u2019d thought \u2013 You\u2019da thought, well, all of the Civil Rights groups would come\u2013 \u2018course, we don\u2019t have\u00a0<\/em>any up there in the hills, there nothing but good old farmers<\/em>, and you\u2019da thought the good old liberal farmers woulda got right in there gung ho, wouldn\u2019t you?<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Murmurs<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>You\u2019da thought they\u2019da rushed\u00a0<\/em>right in there and fought for us hard. You know who one of our greatest supporters was? He\u2019d been in and seen our youth rehabilitated, and he looked and he saw blacks and whites working together, and he knew, because his relatives were in the law enforcement agency, that not one of Peoples Temple\u2019s members had ever been arrested. And when they started after us, who was the first to get a hold of the Attorney General [Evelle Younger] \u2013 and the Attorney General didn\u2019t know what to think about it, \u2018cause we were being accused of being leftist \u2013 the chapter leader of the John Birch Society, Walter Heady, went to battle and wrote the newspaper and said, leave those people alone. I may not agree with where they\u2019re going, but they change people\u2019s lives for the good, and they make this community a better place. There\u2019re no one in trouble, they\u2019re good citizens, they don\u2019t have any arrest records, they don\u2019t use alcohol or tobacco or drugs, so what\u2019s wrong with them being alive and permitted to function in our community?<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>You never know, you never know. Even for a prophet, that was a hard one to call. Not only did he do that, he got a hold of [Randolph Hearst] the head of the Hearst papers, and he got a hold of\u2013 Well, I\u2013\u00a0I tell you some of the people he got a hold of. Amazing<\/em>. Made me realize how strong the right is in America today, \u2018cause he got a hold of some people that would\u2019ve never taken a second look at me. I have people writing me that wouldn\u2019t\u2013 if they\u2019d hear me preach one sermon, they\u2019da probably drop dead.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Laughter<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>But they were writing me sympathy c\u2013 and sympathetic letters. But again, a lack of communications. Someone told me once Walter Heady hated\u00a0<\/em>me. Said he\u2013 Said he says you\u2019re a socialist<\/em>. I said, well, if he hates me, we\u2019re going to have to go over there and see what\u2019s wrong, \u2018cause scripture says if your brother has got ought\u00a0<\/em>against you, you go to him. It didn\u2019t say if he got ought against you<\/em>, it says if he\u2019s got\u2013 if you\u2013 if he\u2019s got ought against you<\/em>, you got to go and find out what\u2019s the trouble.<\/span> That\u2019s what scripture\u2013 See, I\u2019m an old-fashioned religionist in a lot of ways. I don\u2019t dangle you over hot hell, and I don\u2019t always tell you about the streets of gold, but I take some of those ethics of the Judeo-Christian principle very seriously and sincerely to heart<\/em>. And it says if your brother\u2019s\u00a0<\/em>got ought against you, you go[Matthew 5:23-24, \u201cTherefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.\u201d].\u00a0<\/span>So I tromped over to his farm one day, and I walked in there, and the dogs met me, and the signs \u201cAmerica love it or leave it\u201d and everything else, I thought\u2013 I felt like Abraham in the wilderness.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Laughter<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>And I walked down for about a half mile, and the more I got there, the more disturbed I got, but when I got to the door, I said, I am Jim Jones. He said, you walked though all these dogs? I said, yes, I\u2013 I\u2013 I did, I get along with dogs better than I do people.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause, laughter.<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>He said well. (chuckles) And so\u2013 so from that point on began a conversation, and it was a conversation that where we were miles apart, but there was warmth, and then somebody had a common need, somebody got in trouble in the community. Hurt. They were burned out, and we aided them, we didn\u2019t ask what their politics was, and you know? Out of that came an understanding, and we began to talk about some of the problems of repression\u00a0<\/em>and bureaucracy. And do you know, I found out that the John Birch Society was concerned about some of the same laws that threaten civil liberties that you are. They just didn\u2019t realize it. There\u2019s a racist connotation, but I got him out of that racism. Why, they\u2013 Walter Heady, he has blacks in his home now. He may be the chapter leader of the John Birch Society, but he\u2019s not a segregationist anymore.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>I\u2013 I might want to change some of his views, but he\u2019s no longer a segregationist. If he ever was\u00a0<\/em>one, if he ever was one. He d\u2013 isn\u2019t now. And it was amazing that during that time of trial, that when liberals wanted to flee<\/em>, some of them, they want to flee because we were getting onslaughts. They were threatening us by night and by day<\/em>. They kicked a little dog into co\u2013 unconsciousness. They harassed us and broke out our windows, they blasted a shotgun over my head that missed just by\u2013 well, I would hate to measure how much\u2013 how little it missed by, and ten or twelve others\u00a0<\/em>that were in the parking lot. It was a sorry night that the Hearst Press\u2013 I don\u2019t think Hearst did it, Mr. Hearst himself sent us a sympathy\u00a0<\/em>letter. I want to tell you something, it pays to be good in every front of your life. I don\u2019t think that thing would\u2019ve stopped today, but Mr. Hearst happens to be an anti-vivisectionist, and someone sent him articles, saying that we help little animals, and he rushed the letter to the uh, Hearst paper from the\u2013 from the Examiner\u00a0<\/em>from New York and Mr. [Charles] Gould wrote us up there, saying we are going to look into Mr. Kinsolving again. We\u2019re sorry if we\u2019ve caused you any discomfort. And I think your\u00a0<\/em>policy and mine of treating little animals kind might\u2019ve been the thing that touched and stopped us from getting more\u00a0<\/em>attacks. I believe those attacks woulda kept on and kept on, because it took somebody higher than Mr. Kinsolving, because he made a brag to the bishop of our denomination [Karl Irvin]. He made open statements to people at the Pacific School of Religion, he said, \u201cI\u2019m going to crush\u00a0<\/em>Peoples Temple if it\u2019s the last thing I do.\u201d So somebody\u00a0<\/em>somewhere\u2013 And of course we believe that we know somebody somewhere.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Laughter, Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>But (calls out) somebody somewhere\u00a0<\/em>moved a lot of things, because there was a lovely article written in another\u00a0<\/em>newspaper about our animal shelter, and when Mr. Hearst read that\u2013 You see, everybody\u2019s got a heart. Someplace. Somebody\u2019s got sensitivity and feelings everywhere. And you know what we were told? There were two more articles, and editors said, you can be grateful, because there were two more articles so filled with lies that someone might\u2019ve gotten hurt without dowu\u2013 doubt if they\u2019d been printed, but they were stopped. Now you\u00a0<\/em>know and I\u00a0<\/em>know that uh, ordinary things don\u2019t stop\u00a0<\/em>things like that.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Murmurs<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>(Tsks) Ordinary things don\u2019t stop\u00a0<\/em>things like that, but I wanted to\u2013 wanted to drop that in to show you just how small the world was. But during that time, what did Mr. Heady say? He said, “I\u2019m not like you, Reverend, you don\u2019 t believe in any shotgun, but,\u201d he said, \u201cI got one, and if you need it, I\u2019m coming down, I\u2019m going to park\u00a0<\/em>myself on that church lawn,\u201d and he said, \u201clet them throw another rock,\u201d he said, \u201cI\u2019ll shoot\u00a0<\/em>somebody in the rear end.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Laughter, Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Oh, come on, now, child, you know, you know, that uh\u2013 you know that uh\u2013 you may say that\u2019s not quite the way you\u2019da said it, but I loved it. I appreciated him saying it, \u2018cause nobody was saying anything to me, to folk weren\u2019t liftin\u2019 up the phones. I\u2019ve had all kinds of folks that knew me during those days before, and they come to me and openly invited me to this and that, but when that trouble hit, you\u2019d be surprised how silent it was. You\u2019d be surprised how the Democratic Party that our church has majority supported all through the years, you\u2019d be surprised even how silent it was. Do you know who came to our rescue again? The head of the Republican\u00a0<\/em>Party of the town. Got a hold of the Attorney General, wrote an article in the newspaper, Doctor\u2013 because he\u2019s seen our children, he said, those children came to me with their teeth rotting out, and that church paid to straighten their teeth, put on braces, and he said, people that do that kind of work have to be good<\/em>, and he said, if you\u2019re gonna come after them, you\u2019re gonna have to come after me too.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>I appreciate the chapters in our life. I learned a lot of things. Of course, after the Republicans came out, then my Democrat friends came out too. But\u2013 With one exception. Deputy John\u2013 Mayor [Joe] Johnson came right in the midst of the battle. He didn\u2019t ask me any questions, didn\u2019t say what\u2019s about this newspaper, is it true or not. He said everybody doing things that\u2019re good, have lies written about them. And I guess Mr. Alioto should surely know, because he\u2019s been the most maligned person, I suppose, that public official\u2013 That caused me to take notice\u00a0<\/em>of him, you know.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Murmurs<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>That alone. Just why does he\u2013 What does he get all of these lies told on him, and why is it not mentioned that a jury found him innocent of all charges? Just because he did not get a financial settlement, does not\u2013 That\u2019s not really representing it like it ought to be. That\u2019s why I told you the other day, you should write Channel 7 because Mr. [Russ] Coughlan of Channel 7 says it\u2019s an unfair treatment that he\u2019s getting, and I think it is indeed\u00a0<\/em>unfair, because there\u2019s not been enough mentioned in the media that this man was de\u2013 was proven innocent by two juries<\/em>.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Murmurs<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Hmmm?<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Murmurs<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>But I wasn\u2019t asked any questions about\u2013 and I\u2019da been highly offended if I had. Mr. Johnson was a wise man and a kind man, \u2018cause if he\u2019da said, what about those newspapers. I\u2019da said, Mr. Johnson, if you choose to believe it, you can. If you don\u2019t, that\u2019s up to you. But he didn\u2019t. And thus he\u2019s got a friend from now on. And he may not uh, know just how valuable that is, but I\u2019m a scrapper. I\u2019m there. When you give me loyalty when I need it, I\u2019ll be behind you. If after Mr. Alioto has decided he doesn\u2019t want to run anymore, and you want to run for mayor, I\u2019ll be right there pushing\u2013<\/span><\/p>\n

Tape edit<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Because I (tape edit) elephants have something in common. They never forget. (chuckles)<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Lingering applause, murmurs<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>I never forget. I\u2013 I never forget kindness, particularly when it isn\u2019t going to\u2013 not gone do you thing\u2013 anything, not going to gain you anything. He wouldn\u2019t\u2013 He didn\u2019t have a thing to gain by being kind to us, but just was kind. He didn\u2019t know how much we stand together. He didn\u2019t know how unified we are. He didn\u2019t know that if they come after one of us, if they\u2019d ever wanted to take away liber\u2013 liberty in this country, if they ever wanted to take away freedom, as they did to the Jews in Nazi Germany, if some terrible misfortune would take place that they came to do that sort of thing, if they came after one of us, they\u2019d have to take every blessed one of us.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Enthusiastic, sustained applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Thank you, thank you. And we aren\u2019t all here tonight, \u2018cause some of \u2018em are managing children\u2019s home, and managing senior citizen home, (tape edit) some of them are in college classes, and some of them (tape edit) in the nursing convalescent homes, and some of them are in the various projects, managing the concession stands on the city. But we are in various pa\u2013 roles and functions, and a whole lot of Los Angeles is not here and a whole lot of Seattle that\u2019s coming in tomorrow. When you get us all together, about 10,000 of us, and that\u2019s no small number.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>We believe in the democratic process, and we\u2019re going to stand by it. We\u2019re nonviolent, and we\u2019re going to stand by it. So in answer to you, dear, I don\u2019t believe in killing. I don\u2019t believe it\u2019s brought us any good\u00a0<\/em>thing in society. I don\u2019t believe wars have gotten us very far. I think we\u2019re going to have to learn how to win\u00a0<\/em>with ideas. If I had listened to what they said to me about the John Birch man, I suppose we coulda been in a battle, because he\u2013 he really said we ought to be driven out of the neighborhood. But I walked up, and I didn\u2019t carry a gun, I came with an honest heart, and he\u00a0<\/em>had an honest heart, and two honest hearts met. So I\u2019m afraid\u00a0<\/em>of killing, because so often in the state\u2019s background \u2013 not this state, every state \u2013 the ones that end up in the gas chamber and the gallows and the execution chambers are black, brown, or poor whites. (unintelligible under tape distortion) There\u2019s never been a person ever executed that had $50,000 in liquid assets. Until they start (unintelligible word under tape distortion, likely \u201ckilling\u201d) all those rich\u00a0<\/em>folks as well as they kill all the poor folks, I\u2019m not for capital punishment.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>(raises voice) I mean a criminal\u2019s a criminal. If you\u2019re gonna get uh\u2013 I notice someone, a famous right wing racist today who\u2019s using\u2013 uh, he\u2019s a cartoonist, and he was involved in sodomy and involved in a morals charge, and up in two different universities, they had him cleared. They pinned his head to the wall. I\u2019ve never been arrested in my life, never done anything that I want to\u2013 anybody\u2013 would hesitate for anybody to know. But I\u2019ve got all kinds of malarkey thrown at me. And you\u2019ve had it too, if you\u2019ve been standing for what you believe. But you know that guy? Strangely enough, he didn\u2019t get a day sentence. He didn\u2019t b\u2013 a\u2013 a court to even\u00a0<\/em>hear the case. Judge just threw\u00a0<\/em>it out. And yet he was proven\u00a0<\/em>guilty in Wisconsin and in Louisiana. He had all\u00a0<\/em>the evidence against him, an c\u2013 an act of immorality against a minor. (Pause) His money bought him out. When money\u00a0<\/em>can buy people justice, I\u2019m afraid of laws that takes anyone\u2019s life.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Delayed applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>And I think\u00a0<\/em>you\u2019ll have to look at it from the uh, criminologist standpoint. The head of the\u2013 the uh, local prison said that he\u00a0<\/em>believes, and many say, that it is not a deterrent to murder or any other capital crime that has been covered by uh, the gas chamber. Let\u2019s look at the young child in San Jose, who was a babysitter. She w\u2013 didn\u2019t have the courage, she said, to commit suicide, so she murdered two children, so that the state would take the problem out of her hands and kill her. And I think you\u2019ll find a lot of people like that. The states that have done away with capital crimes have no more crimes of violence and acts of passion than the states that have them. In fact, if anything<\/em>, there are less\u00a0<\/em>capital offenses in states that\u2019ve done away with capital punishment. So if you want to look at it just practically, I say we ought to really worry people with the fact that they could be in prison a long, long time. I think that\u00a0<\/em>will deter people. But death<\/em>\u2013 Sometimes when you\u2019re killing someone else, it\u2019s an act of suicide, you know, just self-destruction of an impulse to be destroyed. So I\u2013 I would say, if you going to be Christian, and Ju\u2013 and follow the Judeo-Christian tradition, no, no to the death penalty. No. But if you are also going to look at it just from a practical\u00a0<\/em>standpoint, no. In fact of the matter, I believe with [Thomas] Jefferson, that good Democrat, that said the government that governs least governs best. Gotta watch government when it gets too many laws. History, that is, shows that governments, when you give them too many laws, they don\u2019t always get used in the proper way. So I\u2019m le\u2013 leery of giving anyone the right to take somebody\u2019s life. I\u2019m leery of giving such laws as we have, the Ominous Crime Bill, that can keep someone for 90 days without even a charge being placed against them. But do you know, that something is happening in America? The John Birch Society for instance is against some of these same laws that you as liberals have been against. They\u2019re getting an awareness<\/em>. If we can get them out of this brainwashing of race that\u2019s been done to them, and get them to see just civil liberties as an issue. There\u2019re a lot of laws that are bad laws, brother, sister. I don\u2019t know whether you\u2019re re\u2013 familiar with this Washington crime bill. It\u2019s a bad business. They can just take somebody and put him right back in jail for 90 days again, because he mi\u2013 uh, it says I think the law\u2019s vague, my attorney, who\u2019s a member of the church can say it better than I, but it\u2019s some sort of vagueness that uh, if he seems likely\u00a0<\/em>to commit a crime? You want to give a government that kind of power? Not on my life, not on the hair of my chinny chin chin. You\u2019re not going to get me\u00a0<\/em>to give no government that kind of power. I\u2019m against\u00a0<\/em>it. Said I\u2019m against\u00a0<\/em>the government having that kind of power, to put people in the jail without a charge, without due process of law. I think we want to safeguard everyone\u2019s rights, because when one\u00a0<\/em>person\u2019s rights goes, look out<\/em>. You\u2019ll remember what [Martin] Niem\u00f6ller said in Germany. That Protestant. He said it so capably. He said, oh, I was a good Christian, I was so concerned about Jesus, I was Gentile, I didn\u2019t have any concerns about anybody else. He said when [Adolf] Hitler came in Germany\u2013 and he was elected, by the way, don\u2019t you forget it, Hitler was not appointed, he was elected by a mandate. Some people don\u2019t realize that. But when Niem\u00f6ller said Hitler came after the Jews, he said, oh, well, the Jews murdered Christ. I didn\u2019t get too badly disturbed in my disposition when they come after the Jews. Said I thought they had something coming to them. Said when they came after the Communist, he said, every\u00a0<\/em>good Christian hates communist. I didn\u2019t get worried. Said when they came after the trade unions, he said, I\u2019d never been very much involved in labor, I\u2019d always had a silver spoon in my mouth, I didn\u2019t worry about labor. Boom, they took labor out, throwed them\u00a0<\/em>in concentration camps. He said then they come along after the Catholics, and he said, we\u2019d always been taught as good Protestants to have a sort of distrust for Catholics, so I didn\u2019t worry once when they come after the Catholics. But he said in late 1942, when they come after me, there was nobody left to stand up for me<\/em>, \u2018cause everybody else was gone<\/em>. So (voice rises) that\u2019s when I said, with Angela Davis. I\u00a0<\/em>don\u2019t agree with her supporting Moscow\u2019s opinion, if she does, but when I saw Angela Davis being maligned and pressured, I saw that uh, civil liberties was in question, and that\u2019s why I put the full effect of my office and the strength of this church, I thought if they get Miss Davis, the next\u00a0<\/em>one might be a member of my church, so they\u2019re not going to get Miss Davis. (calls out) I\u2019m not going to sit by and let by\u2013 anybody\u00a0<\/em>go.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>I know that may get you charged. It may get you charged of being a Communist or something else, I don\u2019t care. Names\u2013 Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words have never harmed me yet. I\u2013 I just\u2013 I learned a little bit more about endurance these last few times. I learned why\u2013 You know out there I lost marching around the Examiner\u2019s\u00a0<\/em>office? I lost three and a half pounds. I never would<\/em>a lost those three and a half pounds, hadn\u2019t been marching around the Examiner<\/em>. (laughs)<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>One of our sisters, one \u2013 Sister Ella \u2013 said she went uh, went to the doctor after she\u2019d marched for two days, they said, what\u2019s happened, your blood pressure\u2019s gone down. She said, I\u2019ve been able to carry a picket where I knew a picket was needed, and she said, it\u2019s done a lot of good for my mind, and I guess it affected my blood pressure.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>So that\u2019s\u00a0<\/em>indeed\u2013 (Voice calms) Uh, that\u2019s indeed uh, a little bit of the chapter on that question. Watch laws. Know what you\u2019re doing when you support laws. \u2018Cause laws cannot achieve what you want them to achieve. For instance, my good friends in the Mormon church, and they were marching up around uh, Redwood Valley saying they wanted to get obscenity\u00a0<\/em>stomped out. I said, well, good brothers, sit down and talk to me, \u2018cause I\u2019ve got\u2013 My accountant\u2019s\u00a0<\/em>a Mormon. We get along with people of all stripes. But I say, when you folk get to marching around these streets, and I\u2013 and I can joke with them. I said when you get to marching around these streets just as hard to get that little clause in your church to stop blacks from being denied entrance to the eldership\u00a0<\/em>and entrance into the temple<\/em>, then I\u2019ll listen to what you folks got to say about obscenity, and they all started to getting blush and red, because they know that a lot of good Mormons don\u2019t like\u00a0<\/em>that law, but it\u2019s still a\u00a0law\u00a0<\/em>in their church. The black man is not equal<\/em>. So I said, when you get that law changed, then I\u2019ll listen to you about obscenity. But then I sit down and talk to them, and I converted a Mormon. He give up his petition, and left it right there. He said\u2013 He said, I didn\u2019t realize this. He was talking about the obscenity, what it uh\u2013 we needed to control the morals. I said, don\u2019t you know if you get through with that obscenity law, you won\u2019t be able to read certain parts of King Solomon. (short laugh)<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Laughter<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>I said that law has got a double edge<\/em>. You don\u2019t realize what you\u2019re doing. He said, you don\u2019t mean it. We went over some of the little fine print of that law. He laid his petition down in my home and went home. Didn\u2019t decide to pa\u2013 pass out anymore petitions about that obscenity measure.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Certainly\u00a0<\/em>I don\u2019t like pornographic literature. Certainly\u00a0<\/em>I don\u2019t like the obscenities of people behaving with animals and that sort of thing, but watch the kind of (voice rises) law\u00a0<\/em>you\u2019re writing into being, because that law can be used by people that\u2019ve got immoral minds\u00a0<\/em>to stop you\u00a0<\/em>from having the freedom to read anything you want to read or say anything you want to say. Be careful when somebody comes along wanting to stop you from wha\u2013 reading something that you choose to read. And a whole lot of folk\u2013 And in California, I was proud\u2013 a whole lot of folk saw behind that obscenity measure, and they voted it down. I wish\u00a0<\/em>they had seen behind capital punishment. I think that a lot of people today uneasy, \u2018cause they can\u2019t take a walk down a street. That\u2019s why I say to you out here, like the did today, I was so proud of you, you cleaned up that street, there wasn\u2019t a piece of debris out there. We\u2019re gonna have to clean\u00a0<\/em>our neighborhoods, we\u2019re gonna have to\u2013 we\u2019re gonna have to wash our streets, we\u2019re gonna have to clean\u00a0<\/em>our neighborhoods. We\u2019re gonna have to build\u00a0<\/em>such a way of life, that people will not feel<\/em>\u2013 like that dear woman down here who loved\u00a0<\/em>all races, who loved\u00a0<\/em>all races, so I understand, that was in that Kentucky Fried Chicken, and she gets shot doing her business. I\u2019m telling you, you talk about who is our enemy. You want to talk about who\u2019s our devil? Any brother, be he black or polka dot that shoots somebody in their business, that\u2019s\u00a0<\/em>the worst enemy we\u2019ve\u00a0<\/em>got.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Responds.<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>That\u2019s\u00a0<\/em>the worst enemy. That\u2019s what going to get a noose around our neck. We\u2019re going to have to keep\u00a0<\/em>the laws, be\u00a0<\/em>good citizens, be\u00a0<\/em>responsible, we\u2019re gonna have to unfortunately be little bit better than everybody else.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation:\u00a0<\/strong>Responds.<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>\u2018Cause people\u00a0look\u00a0<\/em>at us a little bit more, so that\u2019s why we\u2019re gonna do it. That\u2019s why we took this place and renovated this. We\u2019re gonna get involved in housing. The next thing we\u2019re gonna do, we\u2019re going to put up an apartment housing scheme here. We\u2019re (stumbles over words) we\u2019re just beginning. We\u2019ve just begun to hear from Peoples Temple. Just begun to hear from Peoples Temple.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>And I think days\u2019ll fare better because a lot of people voted for capital punishment, because they know they can\u2019t walk out on a street in the midday without getting mugged. That\u2019s bad. And we\u2019re hurtin\u2019 ourselves when we allow that to continue. And I know that we can\u2019t change all those social conditions in a minute. And we certainly gotta have someone understand that if we give youngsters jobs<\/em>, and if you give them the right kind of schools<\/em>, and we give them the opportunities they ought to have, they wouldn\u2019t be out there doing\u00a0<\/em>some of that mugging. But in the meantime (emphatic) we must realize that we\u2019ve got to do everything we\u00a0<\/em>can to show another side of it, because if this keeps up, if this kind of violence keeps up\u2013 I heard a CBS report the other day saying \u2013 local station \u2013 by 1975 there\u2019d be barbed wire perhaps, around every inner city. Now that\u2013 I don\u2019t know what you\u00a0<\/em>call barbed wire around every inner city, but to me, that means concentration camps.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Responds<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>And I don\u2019t want to see that happen, and by the help of God, by the help of truth and by the help of you and I together working as a team for brotherhood, (calls out) we\u2019re not going to let that happen.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>So don\u2019t give up. Don\u2019t say you can\u2019t work with white people. If you do, you might as well say the day of concentration camps have come. If you accept that uh, you can\u2019t trust a white man, you better get on a boat for Africa quick\u2013<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Responds<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>\u2013because we can\u2019t have a nation divided against itself. Scripture says a house divided against itself cannot\u2013 cannot\u2013 a house divided against itself cannot\u00a0<\/em>stand, so you recognize what you\u2019re doing [Mark 3:25, \u201cAnd if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.\u201d See also Matthew 12:25 and Luke 11:17].<\/span> If you preach the people going to divide, \u2018cause nobody going to divide anything with us. They promised us 40 acres and a mule back there. We ain\u2019t got that 40 acres and a mule yet, so you\u2019re not gonna get anything now. Nobody gonna splice up some of this land. Nobody gonna give us anything but desert. You know that, if they\u2019re gonna give us anything. You\u2019re gonna have to get out there and work\u00a0<\/em>and get it, we\u2019re going to have to cooperate and lift ourselves and build people into businesses and professions, we\u2019re gonna have to make (slow, emphatic) our own day. Nobody gonna give us anything.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Responds<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Did you understand me?<\/span><\/p>\n

Voices in Congregation: <\/strong>Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>And I\u2013 and I say to\u2013 I\u2019ll continue to support the Muslims and all other liberation groups in their work, I\u2019ll buy from them quicker that I would from somebody certainly that has never done anything for freedom, but I think\u00a0<\/em>you ought to take a look at this kind of silliness, that nobody gonna give you no island, nobody gonna cut out a part of America and give it to you. You\u2019re just listening to a brainstorm, that\u2019s all. That\u2019s dreamy-eyed nonsense. Nobody gonna give us anyplace anywhere. If we build and earn it and gain it back, then we\u2019ll have it, but nobody\u00a0<\/em>gonna give us anything. I guess some of you still think they are. You still believe it, and that\u2019s fine. I haven\u2019t had anybody give me anything yet. (short laugh) You get what you work for. Hmmm?<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>That\u2019s right. Delayed applause.<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>All right. One last question. Don\u2019t feel, Mr. Johnson\u2013 I think that there\u2013 there\u2013 Don\u2019t feel you\u2013 any pressure to stay. I know that you\u2019re a busy man. And I\u2013 We appreciate having you and your wife, and I am not surprised to find you have such a fine companion. I expected it, because I knew that for a man who crusaded as you had, you had to have a good woman behind you. And I knew that if you had an interracial union, you both\u00a0had to be very much in love or you never woulda made it 25 years. Can\u2019t make it . Can\u2019t hack it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Call from congregation unintelligible<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>What? I didn\u2019t hear\u2013<\/span><\/p>\n

Johnson:\u00a0<\/strong>My whole family will be (fades out)<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Thank you, thank you. (chuckles)<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Yes. Yes. Again, brother?<\/span><\/p>\n

Male Voice:\u00a0<\/strong>Inaudible<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Best way to get people off of drugs. We have found uh, to take them into our rehabilitation center, give them a lot of attention for reading, counseling, good\u00a0<\/em>old-fashioned love, and to go off cold turkey. That\u2019s our best way. We don\u2019t like\u2013 We don\u2019t like any drug method. We feel that you can build up other dependencies in a\u2013 just a cold turkey way, and I\u2019m sure that one of the men standing back there, that was a heroin\u00a0<\/em>pusher, can tell you that that was effective for him, and sometimes they feel like they\u2019re going to crawl up the wall, but overall we find that that is the best possible method for us<\/em>. We\u2019re very happy to support other\u2013 other treatments though. Methadone therapy, I am sure, if you\u2019re going to use any therapy, it seems to be scientifically the most acclaimed, but for Peoples Temple, we don\u2019t have\u2013<\/span><\/p>\n

Tape edit<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>\u2013a half years, from dust\u00a0<\/em>up there. Three years we had nothing but a ground. Nothing but ground. We were worshipping outside. Now we have four senior citizen homes, two convalescent homes, one children\u2019s home, a lovely church here, a beautiful\u00a0<\/em>church and residence next to it in Los Angeles, community center with an indoor pool, four college dormitories. That shows what you can\u00a0<\/em>do, if you decide that there are other things more important perhaps than just having anniversaries and teas for those that lead the church.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Delayed, scattered applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>I\u2019m not to say\u2013 that\u2019s not to say I\u2019m against anniversary, but I uh\u2013 I feel here we like it better\u2013 I don\u2019t have an anniversary gift uh, or a special birthday. We\u2013 Every\u2013 every month, each person that has a birthday gets an equal\u00a0<\/em>birthday present. And when you come up in Christmas, every child in Peoples Temple will have the same standard of Christmas. If some child is less handicap\u2013 is more handicapped, less privileged, we see that their standard is raised to our norm of affluence. We don\u2019t lower everybody to some pittance<\/em>, but every child has a parent, a grandparent gift. If they don\u2019t have a living grandparent, the church\u00a0<\/em>becomes the grandparent, and there\u2019s a gift given. Hopefully, many times it\u2019ll be through an individual. But every child in Peoples Temple has the same amount of Christmas. That\u2019s been for the last three years. Every human being has the same birthday gift. I think that\u2019s better than just a pastor having an anniversary. After all, the pastor works hard, but so does that person pushing the broom, that cleans the aisles, and so does that usher that stands there faithfully and helps people up the stairs\u2013 up the stairs. And so does those workers that get in with the latrines \u2013 that\u2019s usually me \u2013 in the bathrooms. But I\u2019m there too, because it\u2019s not\u2013 that\u2019s not the only function, certainly not up here, because I clean this church, as you know, and work and paint and build right along with everybody else. But<\/em>. I think it\u2019s just better that we distribute the uh, strength and the resources, and in answer to your question, the church spoke. You say, can the church and other churches doing enough. The people said a redounding [resounding] voluntary spontaneous, what?<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>No.<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Well, that\u2019s good. Now I see a couple of churches locally, ones we\u2019ve offered our resources to. Third uh, Baptist\u2013 Reverend [F.D.] Haynes who\u2019s had a housing development. Some like that who work for progressive ideals in the past. But many\u00a0<\/em>churches could do a lot more than they do. Certainly many could do more. And we\u00a0<\/em>can do more, and we\u2019re gonna be doing more. We haven\u2019t yet begun to do all we\u2019re going to do. Anyone else?<\/span><\/p>\n

Long Pause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Yes, anyone else has a question?<\/span><\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong>\u00a0(inaudible)<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>You wish to get into what? The college program. What is the best way to get into the college program?<\/span><\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong>\u00a0(inaudible)<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Did you\u2013 Where\u2013 where is this question?<\/span><\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation:<\/strong>\u00a0(inaudible)<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>I like to see who I\u2019m talking to. Yes, you want to get into the college. You uh, wish\u2013<\/span><\/p>\n

Voice in Congregation: <\/strong>(inaudible)<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Make application tonight to someone on the college commission. Uh\u2013 If Professor [Edith] Roller\u2019s here, Professor [Richard] Tropp, where are wh\u2013 Where are wh\u2013 the u\u2013. There\u2019s Professor Tropp back there. Good to have you, Deputy Mayor Johnson and Mrs. Johnson.<\/span><\/p>\n

Voice in congregation:<\/strong>Inaudible<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Oh, the\u2013 I see. Oh, oh, fine. Fine. Thank you, thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Uh, (pause) Make application there with one of the college pro\u2013 uh, people and uh, we\u2019ll certainly see that you are\u2013 are processed as soon as possible. Now for this semester, naturally, things are well taken up, but uh, we have uh, thus far not turned away anyone. Let\u2019s hope we can be able to continue that. Now I want to say<\/em>, if you come in with uh, the idea \u2013 and certainly this doesn\u2019t apply to you, but somebody thinks they\u2019re gonna come in and live up high on the hog and drink and smoke and carouse. No go<\/em>, because we believe that everybody should live the same, sacrifice the same\u2013<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>\u2013that doesn\u2019t mean you got to dress like us, or do everything just exactly like I would do it, but we certainly have got to share. We\u2019re not going to give some freeloader an opportunity to keep his money and ride around in his little coupe or his little sports car and do his thing. If you want to get in and share with us, then we\u2019ll take you in.<\/span><\/p>\n

Voices in Congregation: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong>\u00a0If you don\u2019t have any money, we\u2019re not let that be a hindrance, but if you got money and you are taking advantage of us, we\u2019ll boot you out the moment we find it out. And in fact is that, thus far, anyone that\u2019s tried to get in with that kind of thing for some reason \u2013 and I\u2019ll let you figure out why \u2013 for some reason they\u2019ve never got in.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Scattered laughter and applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>They never even got so far as to make a formal application. They just talk about it, and I\u2019d take one look at \u2018em \u2013 or two \u2013 and that would take care of it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Laughter<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>All right, all right. Any last question? One last question. Any clocks in this place? They\u2019re like most church people. They don\u2019t work. That clock right there\u2013<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Laughter<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0\u2013<\/strong>that\u2019s good. (Pause) Give me something that works in this place or take this down. There\u2019s nothing I hate worse than a clock that can\u2019t tell time. I\u2013 The only one thing I dislike more, and that\u2019s a Christian that don\u2019t live what they say.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Scattered applause<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>Give me something I\u2013 (talks away from mike) Yeah, read, well, shut that clock up there. Lay hands on that clock, in the name of Jesus, and correct it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Laughter<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>That\u2019s what we need to do, with a lot of church\u00a0<\/em>folks. You know, Paul said lay hands on them, he didn\u2019t say where.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Congregation: <\/strong>Laughter<\/span><\/p>\n

Jones:\u00a0<\/strong>(voice rises) Aren\u2019t you glad!<\/span><\/p>\n

Voices in Congregation:<\/strong>\u00a0Applause<\/span><\/p>\n

End of Tape<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

(Editor\u2019s note: This tape was transcribed by Georgiana Mamlakah. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.) To return to the Tape Index, click here. To return to the Annotated Sermons page,\u00a0click here. To read Tape Summary,\u00a0click here. To read Tape Transcript,\u00a0click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1,\u00a0Pt. 2) Several muffled sentences at head of tape. […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":29177,"menu_order":55,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-85652","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/85652","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=85652"}],"version-history":[{"count":7,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/85652\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":123456,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/85652\/revisions\/123456"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/29177"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=85652"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}