{"id":93590,"date":"2019-12-20T14:57:40","date_gmt":"2019-12-20T22:57:40","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=93590"},"modified":"2020-05-02T16:35:54","modified_gmt":"2020-05-02T23:35:54","slug":"q949-transcript","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/?page_id=93590","title":{"rendered":"Q949 Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

To read the Tape Summary, click here<\/a>. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1<\/a>,\u00a0Pt. 2<\/a>).
\nTo return to the Tape Index, click here<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Male 1: <\/strong>(clears throat) You have to be inside the auditorium by 7. (pause) The meetings are not at 7:30, they\u2019re at 7 pm. Tuesday night meetings. (Long pause) Okay. (hushed tones) Go ahead, make your announcement.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> Okay. Some general comments. If you need telephone numbers, please try information before you call any of our members, that uh\u2013 Probably 80, 90 percent of the telephone numbers, even when people move, are<\/em>listed with the operator. And their time is not as valuable as our time. Sometimes\u2013<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> \u2013To your house?<\/p>\n

Voice in congregation:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> They call our home for telephone numbers.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> That\u2019s absurd. Uh\u2013 Anyone\u2013 Uh\u2013 Well, who here has called\u2013 called the parsonage uh, for a number?<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> They called the Temple.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> There was at least\u2013 call received, Marceline [Jones] received a call yesterday. Who was this? And they wanted the number for the Friendship \u2013 what is it? \u2013 Fellowship House, for the Fellowship House. (Pause) Who was that? (Pause) There is to be no<\/em> one, absolutely no<\/em> one calling that parsonage. (Pause) I\u2019m talk\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2013 I know\u2013 I\u2019m talking about there should\u2013 there shouldn\u2019t be no one calling the parsonage<\/em> trying to find out a number. That\u2019s not a uh\u2013 an information center. You can\u2019t call in there to, you know, to check in and find out who you want to see or find out someone\u2019s number.<\/p>\n

Female 1:<\/strong> There are so many calls\u2013<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> There are over 300, 400 calls there a day<\/em>, and they cannot be expected to answer the phone every second, and especially for something as nonsensical as an information for another number. (Pause) From now on, you should call in\u2013 either information, which is 411, or call someone on this council, if you\u2019re having difficulty finding someone\u2019s number. (Pause) Now, is anyone here still smoking or drinking, and if you are (out of mic) that\u2019s two points. I don\u2019t know. (Pause) I will hold off\u2013<\/p>\n

Several voices away from microphone<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 This is a reminder, we are having a Los Angeles meeting this weekend, and everyone<\/em> is to go. The only (tape edit) and if any excuse is about not having the carfare to go that is\u2013 that isn\u2019t a problem. And everyone that misses<\/em> will be brought up on this floor and dealt with pretty severely, because this has been\u2013 this has been gone over time and time again. (Pause) Even if you\u2019re working, let\u2019s say on Friday night and we leave Friday night, we expect you to arrange for a car<\/em> pool. (Pause) Is that understood? Everyone should be in this coming meeting\u2013 this coming meeting this weekend, in the Los Angeles meeting. Does anyone from the buses here know what time we\u2019re leaving Friday night? (pause) Six o\u2019clock we\u2019ll be leaving? (pause) Well, you should be out here between 6 and 6:30, I\u2019d say, to board the buses, so we can get on our way to Los Angeles. (pause) Okay. Thank you. (pause) It has been brought to the council\u2019s attention that Bunny Talley went to Los Angeles as a hostess. I saw her in the back, I see her right there. Bunny Talley went to Los Angeles as a hostess and did not report to work at Hacienda. (pause) Could you come up front please? (pause) And while she\u2019s coming forward, no one<\/em> is ever to miss work unless you are\u2013 well, almost deathly ill and have a\u2013 have a very high fever. Even that doesn\u2019t really count, because you can usually get out of bed, you know, for something you want to do. And work is an extremely, you know, part of contr\u2013 contributing to this\u2013 to our major work here, you know. It\u2019s true\u2013 It\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s very, very important for all of us to maintain good work records, good attendance at jobs and good job performance, if we ever want to relocate elsewhere. So we expect everyone to be on the ball at jobs and attend. Now Bunny, what\u2013 what about this?<\/p>\n

Bunny:<\/strong> I che\u2013 I checked with Lois before I went, and I had sick time coming uh, from work to me. And this is what I took. I took my sick time which I do get paid for, for taking. And I had to have this taken out by \u2013 this is August \u2013 by September when I started. And I talked to Lois today, and she didn\u2019t say anything about there being any trouble at work. I took it on sick leave. I have a notice from my doctor to go back to work on. But I went down Friday night uh, as a hostess and was cleared to do so, and then I went uh, when the buses went back. And the only reason I went<\/em>back was because Sylvia [Grubbs] said she was\u2013 did need uh, hostesses.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Okay\u2013 Okay, who\u2013 who\u2013 who\u2013 who has made this\u2013 this complaint?<\/p>\n

Female 2:<\/strong> I was, because we was\u2013 they was short two girls, and uh, uh, Mary Wotherspoon said that uh, Saturday night that\u2013 Mary said that she didn\u2019t think she\u2019d go to work the next day, and I didn\u2019t know that she had cleared it with Lois\u2013 Lois.<\/p>\n

Several voices away from microphone<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, then let\u2019s go\u2013 let\u2019s go through Lois. It\u2019s all right. I appreciate your surveillance uh, but let\u2019s go through Lois before we get this thing on the floor. Uh, we do have these emergencies where\u2013 where we\u2019re extended and uh, bus crews have no alternatives. They just have no resource to withdraw\u2013 to draw from. So let us check out uh, with her before we get a matter on the floor. Uh\u2013 Check with the\u2013 with the person that\u2019s uh, the head. I might say that Marceline in her uh, contact today with some impor\u2013 important officials, she has an ex officio uh, pretty important position given to her today and not any defined hours, but uh, a position that can be of some immense resource to the\u2013 to the family. She uh, got some glowing<\/em> reports on Hacienda\u2019s improvement<\/em> at the state level, so that\u2019s good to know. That\u2019s the state<\/em> level, that she got this, so keep it\u2013 keep it up.<\/p>\n

Several voices away from microphone<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Is John Biddulph here?<\/p>\n

Several voices away from microphone<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Is Louise Shaeffer here?<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> Yes, she is.<\/p>\n

Louise:<\/strong> Yes, Father.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Okay\u2013<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/strong> No, no, John Biddulph.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Is John Biddulph here? Is he outside in the grounds anywhere? Has anyone seen him?<\/p>\n

Female 3:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 He told me last night that he\u2013 (unintelligible word) I think they were (unintelligible word), and he would probably have to work late. Because I was going to put him a rest home, but he told me he\u2019d probably have to work late because of this.<\/p>\n

Several voices away from microphone<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Oh. Yeah, right. Uh, Herman. (clears throat) The other night uh, John asked you to uh, help him work, you know, clean up\u2013 clean up in the church. I think it was uh, Saturday night, and uh, then you went into the building and sat down at a table while the rest of the guys cleaned and uh, ate a piece of pie. (Pause) Is this\u2013 is this true? This complaint? Herman? Is this true? Come\u2013 Come on forward, Herman.<\/p>\n

Long pause<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Okay. Okay. (Pause) What I said was John Biddulph asked you Saturday evening, I\u2013 I think it was Saturday evening, to help clean in the\u2013 in the, you know, do some maintenance here. And you went out, and got yourself a piece of pie from one of the concession stands, came back and sat down at a table, ate, uh, you know, right while they were working. You know, instead of giving them a hand, you sat down and ate a piece of pie. Is this what happened?<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> Yeah. I told them I had to take some people home too.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Yeah, why didn\u2019t you go about doing that then, instead of coming in, sitting down, eating a piece of pie after the brother asked you to give him a hand?<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> Because they were ready to go in a few minutes.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Say what? (Pause) I didn\u2019t hear you.<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> I said they were ready to go in a little while in a few minutes.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Then you\u2013 you could have\u2013 you could have helped them for that few minutes that you were waiting for those folks to get ready or whatever they were doing. If they were getting their luggage off the buses or something. You could\u2019ve, you know, lent\u2013 lent them a hand. That\u2019s all they asked you was for a hand, \u2018cause he was\u2013 he was short-staffed Saturday.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> When was this? When was this occurrence?<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Saturday\u2013 Saturday evening after our meeting.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Brother, I want to tell you, bluntly. When you put the whole arm of the church out\u2013 (Pause) All the\u2013 all the praise, and all the dancing, and all the\u2013 the shouting, all the tears in the world, and I saw you crying last Saturday about gratitude over getting out of a mess. But all of that means nothing to me whatsoever, when we\u2019re still in that mess and we\u2019ve got to fight that mess through, and we\u2019re gonna fight it through as your family. And John Biddulph, one of my structural people, most important people here to get\u2013 help me with the burden of maintenance, and you start this thing just hours out of your (stumbles over words) having some difficulty. It makes me wonder, because if it wasn\u2019t for your family right now, you\u2019d be\u2013 you\u2019d be in a real spot, and you know it. And it\u2019s the\u2013 The only thing you got working for you is that the family, the legal counselors here, and then hours after a thing\u2013 hours after\u2013 I\u2019m not just speaking to you, Herman, I\u2019m speaking to people in general. There ought to be a vote, a spirit of gratitude that uh, would prevail<\/em>, last<\/em> longer than just one moment. But you sit down and eat a piece of pie. You coulda also helped him for that moment while you were waiting on those people. John Biddulph\u2019s overworked.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. And it\u2019s really difficult. I mean, you know, he\u2013 he stays here and slaves until, you know, 3, 4, or 5 o\u2019clock sometimes, you know, and it\u2019s just he and maybe, you know, uh, one or two other brothers, Phil\u2013 Phil Blakey, and maybe one other brother that they can barely, you know, get to\u2013 to give him a hand.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> He\u2019ll never leave. He never leaves unless I\u2013 I dismiss him. He\u2019ll sle\u2013 sleep in a chair, and he was doing it 4 or 5 o\u2019clock the other morning, and it\u2019s morning after morning after morning. And of course everyone\u2019s had their share of difficulty. He has had his<\/em>, but for months, he\u2019s created no problems, well over a year. He\u2019s created no problem and he\u2013 he\u2019s shown a redemptiveness<\/em> for his<\/em> problem. And all he did was uh\u2013 was uh, something that hurt himself<\/em>, but what you<\/em> did, man, was something else. Uh\u2013 Even though it was hysteria, but when you took off like that in that car, uh, that was my hesitancy for you to get<\/em> the car in the first place. Someone had not driven in so long. So you get a car and you go out and you no more get in it, and you run over fences and cars and toys, and you coulda killed<\/em> somebody, and then you leave the scene<\/em>. Well, I don\u2019t know what you know<\/em> about law<\/em>, but that\u2019s a serious business<\/em> when you leave the scene. (Pause) Uh\u2013 Well, we\u2019re not going to discuss that, I guess, but that isn\u2019t the proper thing, and probably you didn\u2019t<\/em> really leave the scene, but in your mind<\/em> uh, it was irresponsibility. And your behavior, irresponsibility.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Uh, it seems\u2013 seems as though this pattern is carrying through,<\/em> uh, in\u2013 in your\u2013 in your work.<\/p>\n

Female 4:<\/strong> Uh, Herman, uh, at the hospital Sunday night, this uh, Mexican man named Frank Bean, that is working at the county hospital with you brought his daughter in, and uh, he said to one of the nurses there at General Hospital, he says there\u2019s a colored man at the county hospital, and he\u2019s the most lazy man I ever met in my life. He spends three and a half hours in a row watching a ball game without stopping. He watched the ball game from 10:30 in\u2013 this morning until 1:30 this afternoon. He goes into a back room and he listens to the radio. He\u2013 He never does anything. He\u2013 He spot cleans, he spot sweeps. And he says I\u2019d really like to see him get fired, and uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Who said that?<\/p>\n

Female 4:<\/strong> This Frank Bean, that is a janitor now at uh, Mendocino Hosp\u2013 at uh, County Hospital with Herman. He says that Herman watches TV for three<\/em> hours out\u2013 of the ball game without stopping.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Do you watch the ballgame?<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> On my lunch hour.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Where are you\u2013 where are you in consciousness? You\u2019re interested in ball games here? (Pause)<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Brother, do you understand\u2014<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2013 you\u2013 I like to be like a (unintelligible word), a loving father, and the easier I am, the more of this I put up with.<\/p>\n

Female 4:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 Herman uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Shhh! I want\u2013 I don\u2019t want to have that exposed and pulled out inch by inch. Is this true, Herman, or is it not true?<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> (Pause) Yes, it\u2019s true.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Why did you lie to me?<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> But I do do my work, he was wrong about that.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> He asked whether\u2013 why did you lie to him?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2018Cause the lunch hour is not the only time you\u2019ve ever done it. You knew you were lying to me, and I know it immediately, and I\u2019m tired of letting you people get by with this lying because I\u2019m just simply uh, not interested in going into each of these little things and dig, dig, dig, but I know immediately<\/em> when somebody lies to me. I may look<\/em>at you and just look at you straight and let you lie, or I may do just like I did then and say I\u2019m getting tired. You lie very nicely. You lie just very straightforwardly, um-um-um, you shook your head like you had been attacked unrighteously and unfairly. (Pause) (unintelligible word)<\/p>\n

Female 4:<\/strong> Herman has even gone to the San Francisco Bay Area to ball games there to the Giant\u2013 Giant games, I believe it is, uh, on the weekend and paid<\/em> money to go.<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Female 4:<\/strong> You have too, and you came back and slept in my car and\u2013 and went to work from my car. You did too. Don\u2019t lie again.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (short laugh)<\/p>\n

Council Female:<\/strong> Herman, have you paid money to go see the Giants play?<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> Yes, but I never went on no\u2013<\/p>\n

Council Female:<\/strong> Why don\u2019t\u2013 It doesn\u2019t matter whether you went on the weekend or any other time. Did you go? That is the important thing. You\u2019re skirting around the issue again. (Pause)<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> If you smoke a cigarette, it doesn\u2019t matter what road you smoked it on.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (upset) Oh, well, this isn\u2019t\u2013 this is not necessary. You don\u2019t have to teach Herman ethics, or if you do, we\u2019ve certainly uh, been wasting our time. You<\/em> know that uh, whether it\u2019s a weekend or whether uh, not,<\/em> we talked about the capitalism of\u2013 of ball<\/em> games. The exploitation<\/em> of blacks by sports<\/em> clubs, the miserable<\/em> revelations. I spent two or three sermons straight talking about the revelations of a former ball player, how they give them hypodermics that kill<\/em> them to get more energy out of them, make them muscular, but it finally kills<\/em> them or makes them addicts. And they\u2019re all involved in these barbarous misuse of\u2013 by uh, the\u2013 these organizations. And the homosexuality that was\u2013 uh, sadism, sadistic homosexuality encouraged by coach\u2013 coaches. We all went in this. You were\u2013 If you\u2013 you\u2013 course, may not have heard it.<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

Jones<\/strong>: Some of you people don\u2019t hear anything that goes on in here. (Pause) You set here, but you don\u2019t hear it.<\/p>\n

Female 4:<\/strong> And also you\u2019re chewing gum.<\/p>\n

Female 5:<\/strong> Excuse me, could we have everyone please listening when Father\u2019s talking and not reading a newspaper.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Who\u2019s reading a newspaper?<\/p>\n

Female 5:<\/strong> Bernie.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Who\u2019s reading a newspaper?<\/p>\n

Female 5:<\/strong> Ber\u2013 Uncle Bernie was sitting there looking at the Sun Reporter<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Sighs) Now you see, you don\u2019t like discipline. we don\u2019t like rules, don\u2019t like council. And people say the council\u2019s too ag\u2013 aggravating, because I\u2019m the Father, and I tend to love my children too much to indulgence. You\u2019ve gotta have a tough<\/em> council. Council has to take an unloving role. That\u2019s what it seems to be it, really is a loving role.<\/p>\n

Several voices away from microphone<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Somebody gonna have to go. Somebody gonna have to take a walk.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> I think so.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> This place is getting in danger, because everyone thinks that you can get by. I look out here and I see from every meeting the issues I talk about in the meeting before facing<\/em> me, the same issues facing me the next meeting. (Pause) Because I think maybe you think that uh, we won\u2019t separate from you. (Pause) Well, you\u2019re not too high that we won\u2019t separate from you. You better listen closely. I\u2019m not\u2013 I wasn\u2019t at that council last night too, but there were lies told that council. Lies. Not facing reality, trying to shift the gears, pushing the responsibility onto somebody else. (Pause) So I had to become fully<\/em> aware of what went on at that council last night. I\u2019m\u2013 I don\u2019t like to give people, a council of power to throw somebody out when I\u2019m not present, but (Pause) I\u2019m inclined to think I shall. (Pause) If they make a bad decision, it can\u2019t be as bad as what we\u2019re into here.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Because if you don\u2019t get the message in working with us, when I put the whole machinery of this church at your expense, and run our attorneys right in for you and willing to risk our whole reputation, when I would never dream<\/em> of leaving a scene of an accident. They\u2019d have to drag<\/em> me away from the scene of an accident. But you did this, and we went along with this and uh, support you because you\u2019re one of our brothers. (pause) Nothing can be quoted from this room, can\u2019t even discuss things w\u2013 with any sense anymore, because it\u2019s not good sense to discuss this type of thing. Then we deny anything that\u2019s been said in the room anyway, we\u2019ll stand by each other. We\u2019re like the Jews<\/em>, we\u2019ll stand by each other.<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Got nobody else<\/em> to stand by.<\/p>\n

Male 2:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Anybody goes out and say he left the scene, I\u2019d say you\u2019re a liar<\/em>, because I\u2019ll support the family.<\/p>\n

Several voices of affirmation<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Tell he\u2019s never done it before<\/em>. That\u2019s not the issue. You\u2019ve never done it before, but it just\u2013 In days, a matter of days, and then we have a thing like this come up on you right after. I\u2013 I\u2013 I\u2013 If\u2013 if I had a family had fought for me when I was alone, and I spent a good part of my life alone, I would\u2019ve been eternally grateful to that family, and I\u2019da done anything I could to keep that family together. Some of you seem to do everything you can to tear that family up. Tear it up. I don\u2019t think you intentionally do it, but it\u2019s\u2013 whether it\u2019s intentions or not, it amounts to the same thing. What do you have to say?<\/p>\n

Female 6:<\/strong> Uh, I\u2019ve seen Herman moving around through the halls. He does move awful slowly, and the whole hospital is against him. I mean all that I\u2019ve heard talk, and when we\u2013 uh, when I came back from vacation, I told him that I went\u2013 took a plane and went to Ohio to visit my grandchildren, so as soon as I walk in after being gone two weeks, the head nurse on Acute says, well, did you enjoy your trip to Mexico and Canada? And I said, what do you mean? She said, well, didn\u2019t you go with Herman and the church? And I said, I don\u2019t know anything about it. I said, I went to Ohio on the airplane. And I approached Herman and I\u2013 I asked Herman before we went on the trip not to tell anybody<\/em> where we were going.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Did you, Herman?<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Female 6:<\/strong> And he told one person in depth.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Did you?<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Herman? (Pause) What do you have to say, Zippy [Zipporah Edwards]?<\/p>\n

Zippy:<\/strong> Uh, what I want to say, you see, I\u2019ve been uh, telling him about these ball games a long, long time.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I asked\u2013 I asked her\u2013 I sent it to her.<\/p>\n

Female 7:<\/strong> He said, Vivian, I\u2019m busy.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I was about to make a decision, (unintelligible name, could be Harriet or Harry), and you\u2013 you missed it all. You missed it. I\u2013 I about made a decision, but I wanted to hear from her first.<\/p>\n

Zippy:<\/strong> Well I said, you know, that Jim\u2013 what Jim thinks about these ball games. I said you should quit going to the ball games. And then again when he got this car, I wanted<\/em> to tell him, don\u2019t go in unfamiliar places at night, since you just learned how to drive in the dark, and\u2013 and I wouldn\u2019t tell him because I know his head is hard, listen to nothing you say. I wanted to tell him when he got the car, but he would not listen to anything you say to the man. And I\u2019ve been asking for a long time about going to these ball games, and by talking too much on top of that.<\/p>\n

Female 7:<\/strong> Uh, and just uh, Saturday or Sunday Herman took off at 1:30 and uh, Jan Wilsey\u2019s mother told me that they were talking in the dining room about him and said that Herman\u2019s going to get fired.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Well, she\u2019s an Indian, so she\u2019s not against you.<\/p>\n

Female 7:<\/strong> No, she\u2019s<\/em> for him.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Umm-hmm [Yes].<\/p>\n

Female 7:<\/strong> And she holds\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Does she (unintelligible word)\u2013 There seems to be some number of Caucasians involved, but that\u2019s your\u2013 that\u2019s your\u2013<\/p>\n

Female 7:<\/strong> She also\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013blood relative there standing. She\u2019s black, so there\u2019s been an equal number here of all races represented with a very, very bad story here.<\/p>\n

Female 7:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t\u2013 I didn\u2019t hear what they said, but she said that they said he\u2019s taking too much time off and that he told them he had to go to the International Airport and he had to leave at 1:30, and the janitor\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> The International Airport?<\/p>\n

Female 7:<\/strong> And the janitor and the housekeeping department, which he\u2019s a part of, were all sitting in there, three or four of them discussing being fired. And also he\u2019s been playing games with those women too, Herman. You\u2019ve been uh, flirting around with some gal from uh, Los Angeles, and one of the girls here, and then you tried to get me to go with you in your car the other day. And I thought it was friendship. When I realized that you\u2013 you were flirting around with me, you said, You\u2019d rather have me than anybody. I didn\u2019t want to go with you at all. (Pause) Well, I think if Archie Ijames were here, he could verify that you did. And you\u2019re lying again.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

Female 7:<\/strong> He says he didn\u2019t try to get me to go with him. He wanted me to go with him in his car, and he\u2019s lying. Again.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> What\u2019s that about, man? What\u2019s that about? You were taking her where? What had you intended to do?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I can\u2019t answer this kind of stuff, I don\u2019t \u2013<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Okay. Well, there\u2013 there\u2019ve been some very, very serious charges made here, Herman. Very serious indeed.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Get\u2013 Uh, Grace [Stoen], read this and go get uh, AJ [Archie Ijames]. Okay.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Have you anything to say for yourself at this time?<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019m sorry and uh, it won\u2019t happen again.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> No, I\u2013 I can assure you it won\u2019t happen again. (Pause) (more emphatic) I can assure you it won\u2019t happen again. None of this mess is going to happen again. (Long pause) You\u2019d better be laying some plans as to where you would move if you are released from this church, because if you deviate the slightest, Herman, you\u2019re going.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I won\u2019t even act on it.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right, Herman.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Now my word\u2019s out there. They\u2019re\u2013 They\u2019re going to do it.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right, they will.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s it, man.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Oh, I know about his temper. I know that. Uh, man, I expect you to cooperate with me. I\u2019ve never been arrested. I\u2019ve never been involved in anything illegal, and I give my life purely<\/em> for socialism, and I want to keep my record clean. I don\u2019t like (voice rises) people running around violating every kind of rule, then violating laws for their own ego. The only law I believe in breaking is what Martin Luther King said, a bad law. A bad law doesn\u2019t mean to misbehave on a road with an automobile. Those are good laws, they only be\u2013 only\u2013 only ought to be tighter and harder than they are. Then we have your work<\/em> habits. Those are good laws. We can show people we\u2019re good integrationist, that we\u2019re good socialist by how we work. You violated that. Your temper and your\u2013 your interplay, your sex play. There\u2019s nothing so threatening than a\u2013 than a man who appears moderately uh, dressed or moderately handsome, being black and large, flirting around on a job. You\u2019re messing us up there, \u2018cause evidently you had no need for women on\u2013 in\u2013 in marriage all your life. You\u2019ve got along very beautifully without women. Do you have the same problem as the other brothers have? (Pause) Hmmm?<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What is that problem?<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> Homosexuality.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> All right. Now what\u2013 what are we\u2013 what are we\u2013 uh, what are you risking so much. (pause) (Clears throat)<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Wh\u2013 wh\u2013 what are\u2013 what are you now involved in here, you know, project wise?<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> Service uh, Committee.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> What else? And how many hours\u2013 Well, how many hours do you spend with the Service Committee working on (unintelligible word) thing?<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> Well, I\u2013 I just started.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> You just started.<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> What else are you involved in, Herman?<\/p>\n

Herman:<\/strong> Well, Security.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Umm-mmm.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You used to come down here, and uh, help so<\/em> much with maintenance, and I\u2013 I\u2019m looking back to that time. I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m fair. If anything too<\/em> fair. I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m letting\u2013 I\u2019m riding on the years that we\u2019ve known each other. I rode on the years that I\u2019ve known each other with a couple of other people this week. And I\u2019m getting kind of weary puttin\u2019 out anything but the truth, (Pause) so, as I said, no matter how much it breaks my heart to do so, at the next hearing, I won\u2019t be present. I will step down from this office, and they<\/em> will be this office. And I think you need to know that they know I\u2019m loving, but they think that in some instances, I\u2019m a little too soft. So uh, you face them. Not me. Now, I\u2019ve put it in the record and that\u2019s it. So, brother, keep your nose clean. They\u2019re going to write this down, so that\u2019s my word. I will not be able to intervene. Do you realize what that means? You better improve your job, you better lay off wasting our money on racist sports\u2013<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Amen.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And better find some\u2013 if you want some companionship\u2013 If there\u2019s any need in you at all, then you find it within this group. You don\u2019t find it outside.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Why don\u2019t you get a dog from Penny [Kerns], if you want some companionship. She has a lot of little puppies that need taking care of. Why don\u2019t you get a\u2013 you know, get an animal to take of, if you\u2019re looking for companionship. It would be a lot more wholesome, and a lot more real.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Whatever. You better not play any kind of sex games here to get us in any trouble. I\u2019ve had enough trouble<\/em>, \u2018cause I\u2019m saving myself to fight injustice, and I don\u2019t want to get drug<\/em> in by these silly violations of good laws<\/em>. I\u2019d better get through everybody\u2019s head here. I will go down fighting against an unjust law, but it is just<\/em> that you give an honest day\u2019s work for your pay. If you don\u2019t like it, quit<\/em>, or go through channels and protest it. But don\u2019t slovenly uh, fail to do your work.<\/p>\n

Female 8: \u2013<\/strong>and to try to telling three lies here to Father. I asked you\u2013 Uh, when I first got up here to swallow your chewing gum, and you didn\u2019t, and uh, I\u2019m quite sure that the children don\u2019t appreciate it.<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>What are you doing chewing gum, in here?<\/p>\n

(Conversation away from mike)<\/p>\n

Jones: <\/strong>All right, go ahead. Let him talk about something else. Go ahead. Whatever you have to say to him.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Uh\u2013 I think you should (unintelligible word). (stumbles over words) Jim, what is your schedule? Do you have a constant schedule? Do you have days? Is that it?<\/p>\n

Jim:<\/strong> [editor\u2019s note: not Jim Jones] Yes.<\/p>\n

Male 1:<\/strong> Okay, fine. You will only use your cars\u2013 your car to go to and from work. Unless you are especially called on uh, I want you\u2013 I want Zippy\u2013 Zippy, where are you, here?<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> I want you to do this for me. \u2018Cause I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m greatly questioning whether\u2013 uh, how\u2013 how much you know me and could be where you are. All the years we\u2019ve been around or at least in contact with each other. (Pause) I want you to come down here and uh, you check water. People been leaving water. I want you to do this every day, see that there\u2019s not water faucets running. I\u2019d like you to go through and see that the animals are well fed, because I\u2019m having to do some of this. Now be\u2013 On some important issues. I want you to see that these animals are getting well fed and your\u2013 Stephan [likely Stephan Jones]? Where is Stephan? And where\u2019s Stephan? And the uh\u2013 Tim and Jim, you uh, talk with him his schedule. I\u2019d like a place, I\u2019d like you to keep their cages clean uh, little extra, \u2018cause school\u2019s<\/em> gonna come and I want these children to do it, but I want you to follow up on them. Will you do that?<\/p>\n

Male:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Every day I\u2019m going to count on you. See that we\u2019re water\u2013 we lose no more water here. People been going around here turning the water on, had it over the side of the\u2013 had a hose over the side of the uh\u2013 the riverbed. There was a whole stream running down of our precious water, and this is the driest season we\u2019ve ever had. So you got to redeem<\/em> yourself now, man, some way and the brother\u2019s quite right. Your time\u2013 time can become a great enemy to you, unless you are fully<\/em> socialist, and most of the people here don\u2019t know socialism. And if you\u2019re full of that, it\u2019ll keep you straight when nothing else will keep you straight.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Your conscience socialism is God<\/em>. God is socialism, and I am principle socialism and that\u2019s what makes me God, but socialism is more than just any personal<\/em> form<\/em>. The deity of socialism is uh, impersonal<\/em> and ever-present, and some of you\u2019ve seen me too much after the flesh. You (unintelligible word)\u2013 You\u2019ve seen me after the flesh. You uh\u2013 I can look right at<\/em> you, you lie to me. You look right square in my face, and you\u2019ve seen me call off the people, tell them their thoughts of their mind, and you\u2019ll look right square at me and lie, and do it convincingly. And I have time and time again to have people up like you, when they be stoutly denying, swear on everything sacred, it wasn\u2019t true<\/em>, and I\u2019d show you that they were liars, and you people still keep up\u2013 keep doing the same thing that they\u2019ve done.<\/p>\n

You\u2019re going to break down all<\/em> discipline, unless I use every<\/em> bit of my energy to watch for liars or to deal<\/em> with every liar that I\u2019m dealing with, and you can be a liar indirectly or directly. Some of you stage things in\u2013 to defend yourself in Council Meetings here or in Monday night meetings. You stage set-ups to make yourself look good. Whatever it is, it\u2019s still a form of treason, and I\u2019m afraid of it. I\u2019m getting so terrified of it, that I don\u2019t even feel close<\/em> to some people I ought to feel. People who put me<\/em> in a bad light or attempt to, consciously or unconsciously, rather than to admit the one<\/em> thing that has been said, and I repeat, and no one can be more honest than this with you. I have never done anything with any of you, whatever it was, at any time, that it was not to bring you to some growth. (Speaks slowly) I never<\/em> take advantage of any<\/em> human being, never have made any human being do anything. So don\u2019t pose any kind of situations like that, because it makes me feel vo\u2013 grossly uncomfortable. Maybe at the time I can\u2019t tell you what I\u2019m doing, but it\u2019s a testimony to your strength that I work with you.<\/p>\n

I bring out things in your mind, let you see<\/em> yourself, expose things about you to yourself<\/em> that\u2019ll make you stronger to help others. Because no one that doesn\u2019t know themselves is not worth his salt. They can\u2019t lead anybody at any time, unless they know themselves, and I don\u2019t see very much carryover here of what I\u2019d hoped of really knowing oneself. I said I\u2019m disappointed. From Sunday to Monday night, I was disappointed. I was really<\/em> disappointed from Sunday until Monday night in council situations that came back to my attention. Not because anyone volunteered<\/em> it to me or brought<\/em> it to me, but because I had to get it and I\u2019m really\u2013 I\u2019m really weary with this. And I want to say that Father Jones is calm, but that\u2019s the most dangerous time. The calm comes just before the storm.<\/p>\n

I\u2019m about ready to blow. Now I\u2013 what I\u2019m gonna blow is, I\u2019m going to take care of people that\u2019re gonna be honorable. If I have to put six-foot high fence around here and stop every plan I had for outreach and put an electric wire around here, I\u2019ll keep out the dogs, uh, uh, and I\u2019m not talking about four-legged ones, \u2018cause they\u2019re sweet. I\u2019ll keep out (stretches out word) all of the rascals that are trying to do harm to those that want to work with me in principle<\/em>. Doesn\u2019t mean blind agreement with me, but work with principle. Give me their word and uh, share and share alike. I\u2019m tired of being a watchman on the helm. This place you\u2019ve got stand on guard of it, on top of it, night and day. You said no other church has to do that. Well, no other church ever did try to do anything about its dishonesty, just let its dishonesty grow, and get so high and heavy and thick that you couldn\u2019t do anything about it, so no one ever would<\/em> try to straighten out anything, because if you start to straighten it out, you\u2019d to tore the whole thing up. That\u2019s how dishonest every movement\u2019s been up until now. And this<\/em> movement can get that way overnight. I have to watch it every minute. And if you let this go a year, it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s\u2013 it\u2019s gone. (Pause)<\/p>\n

And I had\u2013 I had some things it\u2013 it\u2013 right in the\u2013 in the helm of counsel. This week I ordered something, I had a traitor here, a minister, and I ordered him how to be handled, and I told sisters how to handle him, and I said take that brother out, and show him through senior citizen homes and so forth, but one of my (stretches out word) own lieutenants\u2019 ego for a moment got between him and what was good, because a sister told him Jim doesn\u2019t want that. He says I said it\u2019s going to be, so I had to spend long distance calls today, and get Sister Karen Layton to do some repair work, because of something that one\u2013 my closest<\/em> cooperation. And I feel I\u2019ve been let down by some of you that are in the closest circle. I\u2019m really stirred\u2013 I can\u2019t\u2013 I can\u2019t go out and jump on this man and let down the fallen ways. I just jotted down. I\u2013 I knew<\/em> this was coming, though I wasn\u2019t posted it was coming, so I made some notes to myself. (Pause) Let them in. Don\u2019t let them stand there at the door, let them in. I\u2019m not healing anybody in the sense that I\u2013 I\u2019ll be disrupted, but just let \u2018em move quietly. No chatting now, tell them very warm\u2013 kindly, no chitchatting at the door. No chit chat, no\u2013 none of your amenities, none of your social amenities. I don\u2019t want you greeting anybody. You keep your mind up here and don\u2019t you even look back there to see where I\u2019m correcting. You all keep your faces up here. (Pause) I\u2013 Now ordinarily there\u2019s time for that and we need to fill the atmosphere with love, but not\u2013<\/p>\n

We\u2019re\u2013 we\u2019re in danger<\/em>. This movement\u2019s in danger, and it\u2019s not in danger from without, but from within. Alliances that are being formed within the movement. We\u2013 I\u2019m principle. The marriage should be to me. I don\u2019t need<\/em> that marriage, and I don\u2019t want<\/em> that marriage, but the office doesn\u2019t have anybody else to put in its position right now, so I\u2019m here and it\u2013 the first alliance and first marriage should be to me. Too many of you people, (pause) follow someone else here instead of me as a basic ideal, and I\u2019m afraid of it. I like it because it reduces some of my strain, my work, but you\u2019re here with other contacts. You\u2019re here because of some\u2013 (pause) I\u2013 I don\u2019t know how to make this, some uh\u2013 some other hero, and there shouldn\u2019t be any heroes but socialism anyway. You\u2013 you pursue<\/em> this work through<\/em> somebody else. You follow through someone else, you make alliances with people in my own staff and council, thinking that will make you in<\/em>. You do favors<\/em> for people in my council and staff, and I\u2019m going to tell you frankly, I don\u2019t think they\u2019re wise enough to always know what\u2019s going on. Many times they are, but not always are they wise enough to know that they\u2019re being used. Little courtesies. I saw one of them done just not more than a few hours ago, the\u2013 one of the members of my board. And all they were trying to do is manipulate you, and you didn\u2019t know it. You took it hook, line and sinker. (Pause)<\/p>\n

This is a terrible task we\u2019re called to do, to be honest amidst a dishonest day, a totally dishonest generation. And you\u2019re going to have to get convicted of my honesty, or you\u2019re going to have to get out of here. And all of this kind of stuff Herman reveals to me, you\u2019re not convicted<\/em> of my honesty. You wouldn\u2019t lie to me, you wouldn\u2019t do these games, if you were convicted of my honesty. Now\u2013 By this I mean, if you were convicted of the\u2013 the full measure of my devotion, as I put this picture up there. Each of these men in that picture to some degree gave their last measure of devotion. I\u2019d like for you to talk it over and over and over, you get in your mind. \u00a0You see, I have to give so much of my\u2013 my body and my mind, that if anyone will be sick, it\u2019ll be I. If anyone will be bearing infirmities or aging, it\u2019ll be me, because I have to take on everybody\u2019s problems. If I didn\u2019t<\/em>, I would never age. I think I could really whip it. I\u2019ve got the keys. I\u2013 I really got the keys to immortality. But instead of keeping it, I\u2019m opening it up as much as I can for you<\/em>. But the risk is, in opening it for you<\/em>, I lose it for myself. (Pause) And I don\u2019t mind that whatsoever, if you<\/em>become what I am in principle. If you become the kind of sensitive being that I am, then I\u2019m happy to lose my life.<\/p>\n

Some of you think it\u2019s easy being God. (stumbles over words) I can help people. I can help myself when I can. There might be such a thing that I would be drawn on by such uh, number of disloyalties as this or the disloyalties that I\u2019ve seen in the last three days, that I could have a stroke. Instructions are given. I will never permit being re\u2013 kept alive with a stroke. I will not<\/em> allow it. Are you willing to do that? Some people recover from a stroke. I will not take\u2013 it\u2019s only given a certain limited time. If, through hypocrisy and dishonesty and disloyalty, I am overdrawn, and I am for any reason paralyzed or disa\u2013 disabled, there\u2019re only a manner of hours for it to get corrected, or I am to be removed from the scene, and my mind will make its transmigration, its transmission into another mind that I\u2013 into another body that I\u2019ve already selected. We\u2019ve already gone over that. That there\u2019ll be someone else setting in this seat. (Pause) Now I\u2019m not going to sit and let that happen easily. I\u2019m getting mighty fed up with this, \u2018cause I\u2019m not dying for principle. I\u2019m dying for crap<\/em>. When I see this<\/em> kind of stuff, I\u2019m not dying for principle. I\u2019m not laying<\/em> down my life to save humanity, if humanity doesn\u2019t lift itself up. If you don\u2019t become what I am, and I\u2019m saying this to every blessed one of you, \u2018cause you\u2013 I saw\u2013 and I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m not going to free anyone in that council. I\u2019m not going to free a one, \u2018cause I think I\u2019m close enough to some of you to say. There wasn\u2019t a one for that council last night didn\u2019t play games, one sort or another. You don\u2019t<\/em> level with me, or even in some<\/em> cases try to put me in a bad spot, (Pause) try to get around rules and laws set up that you know you can\u2019t quote anything unless you say who it is. You know that\u2019s the rule. And as I said, just this case right now, there\u2019s some charge. I don\u2019t know, I\u2019m going to ask the brother just to try to show you what kind of principle we have. Man who I trust second to none, if brother did this, I want to find out if he did this, \u2018cause he did wrong<\/em>, if he did it. (unintelligible word) his words on it, we have no prior, we\u2019re just giving his\u2013 his response right now. He\u2019s over there working hard in that\u2013 every day. Been around for uh\u2013<\/p>\n

Voice:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Reads from note) I feel Archie made a statement last night that he shouldna\u2013 shouldna made. Something was critical, made critical of\u2013 uh, made a criticism made about one of the counselors, namely Karen. When he ask who said it, he refused to say, so I assume that you had said it, and told him that I was definitely assuming that you had said this, and he didn\u2019t deny that you had said this. I got on him for this, as I said, he shouldn\u2019ve said it, since it made me very paranoid, though I told<\/em> him that I did feel the statement was true. Other council members got on him too. (Pause) I feel Archie should at least try to deny that you said it, whether you did or not. Then he shoulda said he was sorry for saying it, but he wouldn\u2019t deny it, nor would he apologize for anything. Today around four pm, Archie called and said Jack [Beam] was the one who said it. He did admit that it was a lack of character on his part for bringing this up to me. I didn\u2019t see this part now\u2013 (sighs deeply) Oh dear. He just started crying after a while, and told me how hard he works and how people don\u2019t appreciate it. He said I should allow him to be a human being. He did<\/em> apologize and ask that he co\u2013 what he could do to make it right. I told him to apologize to you<\/em>. I thought it was terrible that he let you\u2013 let me think all night and all day that you had said it, and he hasn\u2019t had much time to take care of it, and this part was on the part\u2013<\/p>\n

Female 8:<\/strong> \u2013 and the other council members\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013 the other council members what?<\/p>\n

Female 8:<\/strong> (too soft)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> No?<\/p>\n

Female 8:<\/strong> (unintelligible)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> No. (unintelligible name), what are you gonna say here about this brother? (stumbles over words), Archie says\u2013 I got big problems here dealing with him, amidst the core of the work.<\/p>\n

Archie:<\/strong> I\u2013 I said it, I\u2013 and I shouldn\u2019t have said it, as I said to her. And I also apologized to her for saying it. The fact that uh, she would then depress me was is why \u00a0itcame to the point that did in terms of my emotions, and I\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> What you shoulda said is this, and you know this, \u2018cause you\u2019re a principled person. You got a lot more principle (unintelligible words) more responsibility. You cannot be, at this stage, uh, the\u2013 the boat is rocking, you can\u2019t be uh\u2013 indulge in being<\/em> a human being, \u2018cause there\u2019re too many human beings here<\/em>. So you can\u2019t be a human being. (tape break-up) now crying was not in order, nor was that request that you be a human being, because we\u2019re in trouble<\/em> here. This old ship of state\u2019s in trouble. I\u2019ll make it, but it\u2019s in trouble. You shouldn\u2019t have said uh, anyone<\/em>said it. You should [have said], I think, Karen, that you are good at getting people to do certain work\u2013<\/p>\n

Archie:<\/strong> \u2013 I feel\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> \u2013delegating work.<\/p>\n

Archie:<\/strong> I\u2013 I recognize that, (unintelligible)\u2013<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> But you uh\u2013 sometimes were uh, uh\u2013 (Pause) That\u2019s something uh\u2013 I\u2019m not going to quote all this phrase, not that it\u2019s anything terribly, terribly indicting, it\u2019s just\u2013 I wanna say something else to you people too, I\u2019ll take from you\u2013 I cuss with a purpose. I don\u2019t like cussing, just to be hearing it, \u2018cause you\u2019re going to end up cussing at the wrong time, and I know exactly when to do it and when not to. And some of you get the idea that just because I cuss, that that is a kind of a grand license to cuss any time you please, say anything you want to, just as vulgar and foul mouth as you want to be<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Voices in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Now I\u2019m not foul-mouthed. I am trying to break down hypocrisy. I only<\/em> cuss to break down hypocrisy. Mother [Marceline] LeTourneau said, and she was a classic example of it. She said when I was so upset about this cussing, I realized it was self-righteousness. It\u2019s hypocrisy. She got the message, and she\u2013 and I\u2019m not cussing to her anymore. I don\u2019t need to cuss for Mother LeTourneau, but there might be somebody else<\/em> that\u2019s a good soul in the making that I cuss for. But what are you<\/em> cussing for, is the question.<\/p>\n

Crowd:<\/strong> Murmuring<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Just to cuss. As\u2013 And down there at the sch\u2013 at the chur\u2013 the kids can tell you, when I say anything to my children or anything said, I say let\u2019s keep it\u2013 let\u2019s keep it cl\u2013 clear. Let\u2019s keep the language improved, and we do<\/em> it there. And it\u2019s very hard for these children to understand. And I\u2019m not talking addressing that to you, Archie, that\u2019s\u00ad\u2013 I\u2019m on another tangent now. \u2018Cause you\u2019re certainly not one of those that uh, is a terrible offender in that, but I did<\/em> use to say, there is some cuss words here involved which I don\u2019t think there\u2019s any point in repeating. Some of you get a glee<\/em> in it, you just get a joyful glee, and uh, at times I think there\u2019s a necessary freedom of repression. But do it through me vicariously. Don\u2019t go out and do your<\/em> thing. If you need to hear something, and you need a little laugh, you laugh here while we\u2019ve got a closed controlled door. Don\u2019t you go outside in the houses and start cussing and uh, creating animosities, because you don\u2019t know how to break hypocrisy, or you don\u2019t know how to break self-righteousness. I am the one that knows how to do that. And uh, it\u2019s a tough job to do it right. And if anybody can do it, I can do it. You can\u2019t do it. You\u2019re only just going to create more disharmony by your\u2013 your language, and so I would uh\u2013 I\u2019d cool it.<\/p>\n

Archie:<\/strong> May I\u2013 Father, may I say, now what I\u2019m gonna say to you, I\u2019ve got\u2013I\u2019ve got a responsibility.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> To that effect, now that it\u2019s out and you want my opinion, and I don\u2019t think you shoulda said what you<\/em> said. I don\u2019t think you shoulda said that leaves me any\u2013 I<\/em> don\u2019t think that shoulda been discussed. I don\u2019t think you shoulda reacted to it. I think you should have kept it cool, and if you\u2019d had more faith in me, you would\u2019ve kept your cool and talked to him. So now it\u2019s out. I\u2019ll let you all<\/em> know, where I think. Yes, I think it\u2019s true, but I\u2019m not the author<\/em>of it. But I think that\u2019s true, that you relegate work well<\/em>, but sometimes you shift<\/em> work and uh, I\u2019m not the author of this\u2013 this idea.<\/p>\n

Archie:<\/strong> (softly) That\u2019s right. That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And I\u2019m\u2013 I\u2019m put in a bad spot here, but\u2013 So you won\u2019t feel that paranoia, I\u2019ll tell you right now, and I also think that if everybody else works as well as you<\/em> did, I\u2019d be in pretty good shape<\/em>, if they all worked as well as you did.<\/p>\n

Archie:<\/strong> Umm-hmm.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> You\u2019ve still\u2013 But it\u2019s the old saying of, to whom much is given, much is required. And you uh\u2013 But you never get out of it, \u2018cause it\u2019s\u2013 As soon as you shift, I\u2019m always there. When you try to shift now last night, you went home early and I came in. The very night I come home\u2013 uh, come in, you went home early.<\/p>\n

Female:<\/strong> (too low)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Yeah, I know but it still works that way. Any way\u2013 any way it\u2013 any way it goes, you\u2013 you get caught in it, so\u2013 she gets caught in it, some of the rest of you don\u2019t get caught in it. What I\u2019m trying to say is, the more you have responsibility, the more conscience you have, the more these things come to your attention. You just get caught in the quick. There was disorganization here, and people didn\u2019t know what they were doing here. And some of the other letter-writing people. When a leader leaves, they\u2013 they just people running, time wasted. That letter writing thing is\u2013 is\u2013 is\u2013 it saved us time and again<\/em> through following instructions of writing some person. When we got into some trouble, we\u2019d made a friend someplace, because I\u2019d had some prior prophetic awareness and we\u2019d made a friend, we could call on that friend, be a senator or whoever. We could call on that. I don\u2019t mean a friend in a real sense. But I\u2019m talking about somebody who saw us as votes. But, as I said, if everybody worked as hard as she did, it would be fine, but the whole issue in front of the council with strong people \u2013 two of my stronger<\/em> people \u2013 debating what I said or didn\u2019t say, is perfectly<\/em> asinine, and you should not\u2019ve made this statement. That uh\u2013 (Pause) Although I don\u2019t\u2013 Uh, since it made\u2013 it made me very paranoid, but I don\u2019t think that\u2019s<\/em> just the way you said it, paranoid about me. I think your implication was that you were paranoid about me<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Female:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> Everything we do \u2013 \u00a0I\u2019m going to say this just down\u2013 to be right down the line, so we can get it \u2013 everything we do, we don\u2019t put it right in the right\u2013 right (unintelligible word). What you\u2019re really<\/em> saying, you didn\u2019t trust me. Just like we\u2019ve said when we\u2019ve got on council about homosexuality, one of you back there, you\u2019ve set up kind of a set-up, and you tried to divert the situation to somebody else. We set up things to make ourselves look good, and I\u2019m tired of it, because I\u2019m not trying to do it. I\u2019m only trying to keep this office alive. Now, if somebody else wants to take this office tonight, I\u2019m ready for you to do it, and I\u2019ll be glad<\/em> for you to do it, and I (unintelligible word) make you<\/em> look good, because I\u2019m mighty<\/em> tired of being the bad guy and having to be sick<\/em> for hours because of the hate that comes my way and taking this thing in. I don\u2019t like<\/em> sickness. I\u2019m just like you. I don\u2019t like to feel bad. I don\u2019t like to feel bad, right now I feel bad. I\u2019m gonna send out his (unintelligible word). His\u2013 his reaction\u2019s a subconscious thing, it\u2019s\u2013 but it\u2019s there. I get negative energy<\/em> from you. I\u2019m mad or embarrassed. Whatever. All of these things, whether embarrassment or mad, they come back at me as fiery darts, and I\u2019m tired of it. And uh, I don\u2019t have the characterlessness to withdraw, so you\u2019re<\/em> going to have to withdraw. And I mean withdraw clear out of this country, so you\u2019d better prepare to know where you\u2019re going to go, if you get in any more trouble. You better make it clear, \u2018cause you\u2019re going to have to give up that job, and you\u2019re going to have to go clear across this United States, \u2018cause I\u2019m not going to have any more trouble around here.<\/p>\n

Female:<\/strong> (too low)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> (Stumbles over words) If I get my mind uh, coordinated\u2013<\/p>\n

Female:<\/strong> (too low)<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> It was an or\u2013 an ordeal last night that uh\u2013 as you know. (Pause) And we have ordeals<\/em> around here. We got\u2013 we got life and death matters. We got political<\/em> matters. I can\u2019t get through your heads on the life of my (tape failure) (unintelligible word). I\u2019m involved in far more serious work than is in this room.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> True.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And I don\u2019t appreciate what you hold in your mind. I don\u2019t care what you want to tell, you can tell whatever you darn well please. (Passionate) Whatever I have done<\/em>, I have done<\/em> it, and I\u2019m tired of some of you trying to make exceptions. There is no exceptions. Whatever I have done with you has never<\/em> been for selfish reasons. It\u2019s only to bring you<\/em> to some point. I love you all, and I love some of you in such a way that as to give you a responsibility. You had to mature, you had to evolve.<\/p>\n

Voice in Crowd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n

Jones:<\/strong> And I\u2019m tired\u2013 I\u2019m mighty tired of this game saying, well, in here (mimics working machine) he says this, but it didn\u2019t mean me, or making some kind of set-up, but it doesn\u2019t mean me. I meant you<\/em>. I meant you. (Pause) I repeat what I say, I have never based a relationship (tape edit) I don\u2019t know what it is, and my wife has been the first to say that. I have based my love for her or for anyone else on giving them what I felt they needed. They have in return supported socialism in one measure or another, but I have not needed anyone. I feel that is capitalistic. I will not allow that to build in me. Need. I feel it\u2019s very unfair to need. I\u2019m not expecting that of you, but I don\u2019t<\/em> expect anyone to put me in that light anymore. I don\u2019t need. All I need is to be thorough\u2013 I need peace, and I don\u2019t need people. (Pause) Can\u2019t go into a situation where there is\u2013 I want to go in\u2013 and I enjoy some situations more than I do others. It\u2019s true. Not that I enjoy the people any more, but I go into some situations where I\u2019ve visited uh, the homes in town today \u2013 both these homes here \u2013 visited all of our homes round through the area. And the only real in pl\u2013 pleasure I had (out of mic) visit Liane Harris, who\u2019s in a cast. I walked in and she says, (excited) Wonderful. You\u2013 and then just started in telling me beautiful things\u2013<\/p>\n

Tape Ends<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1,\u00a0Pt. 2). To return to the Tape Index, click here. Male 1: (clears throat) You have to be inside the auditorium by 7. (pause) The meetings are not at 7:30, they\u2019re at 7 pm. Tuesday night meetings. (Long pause) Okay. (hushed tones) Go ahead, […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":27291,"menu_order":629,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-93590","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/93590","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=93590"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/93590\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":97728,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/93590\/revisions\/97728"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/pages\/27291"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonestown.sdsu.edu\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=93590"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}