Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.
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Jones: No, we don’t– We’re non-violent, you know. Don’t–
Tape turns off for undetermined time.
Jones: Our people all read the newspapers here. Naturally, over a thousand people, you’re gonna have uh, some dishonest folks and they can go and tell every lie they want to– to corroborate the lies already been told, and so you know that– how it works for you. (Pause) It’s a conscious design.
Unknown male: (Unintelligible)
Tape turns off for undetermined time.
Jones: (unintelligible) They were– they were an impossible bunch of (unintelligible word) bastards. They (unintelligible) push in there, (unintelligible) they slap some woman, slap some woman up the side of– a black woman– slap upside of the n– neck. Boy, the next thing I said something about, they gone grab my ass, took me out man, shoved my ass into a line and shoved us all into (unintelligible), I’ll be goddamned (unintelligible) we were riding along there, just riding along there, on two benches, just riding on it. So– (unintelligible) son of a bitch, everybody look, went through two intersections (unintelligible) what the fuck is this–
Small group laughs
Jones: I got up there, and only one person tell me to set down. And the rest of them settin’ there (unintelligible), trippin’ right along (unintelligible). I had to walk along (unintelligible)– They hadn’t– they hadn’t taken my name or anything, (unintelligible), hell it wouldna had to, once they–
(unintelligible exchanges for several moments).
Jones: We didn’t even– We didn’t even pass the time of day. We went one way, and I went the other way. (unintelligible) But I did look back on the storefront, and I looked back–
(unintelligible for several moments).
Man: Nowadays, some fucker would stop me doing a– a real (unintelligible) civil service act.
Jones: There was a lot of protest in those days. Lot of protest. Oh Jesus.
Male: Even in spite of uh, all the shit, huh?
Jones: My God, the Progressive Labor Party– We filled the hall– we filled up the hall with about twe– 12,000 people there.
Woman: What year was that?
Jones: Huh?
Woman: When was that?
Jones: Well, hell, I wouldn’t know what year.
Male: (Unintelligible)
Jones: Oh no no no. Earlier than that. It was uh–
Woman: Was it in (unintelligible) before you went to high school?
Jones: I was just out of high school. It was ‘49. It must have been ‘49.
Woman: (unintelligible) That’s just before the real bad–
Jones: It was ‘49. Glen was two, and uh–
Woman: It wasn’t ‘49.
Jones: It might have been ‘50. I can’t recall. Could’ve been ‘50. (Pause) Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it. I don’t think we were married yet. It was ‘48. ‘48.
Woman: Yeah, it would be (unintelligible).
Jones: And I know– And my wife [Marceline Jones] and I wasn’t married yet, ‘cause (laughs) my dad, my dad-to-be, father-in-law-to-be [Walter Baldwin] like to shit me. (Laughs while he speaks, unintelligible). He hadn’t had his damn heart attack yet. I was terrible.
Woman: He came– he came to pick you up–
Jones: (Laughs) He was the president of the city council (unintelligible while he laughs), said you’re gonna get in all kinds of trouble (unintelligible while he laughs), and he says– says, mother, you’re not going, and I said, yes I am. (unintelligible)
Woman: He was waiting at the end of the (unintelligible) all of a sudden I looked up and there was this huge colored guy behind me–
Jones: (Laughs, coughs). Outrageous. He– he– he’da like to die, he said, I’m not going in that commie (unintelligible). No way. Communists (unintelligible). Yet she went in there trepiditiously–
Woman: The real hysteria really–
Tape turns off and on.
Jones: The FBI (unintelligible) –went to the Soviet Union. (unintelligible) Now– now that’s later. Hell, my chronology’s off.
Woman: Did you have your (unintelligible word) on over at the Soviet Union at that time?
Jones: Well, hell, yes. (unintelligible) Lot of folk ended up in the Soviet Union. Folk got rescued (unintelligible). That’s where in the hell they had to go. And I was called up– I was going to be placed next on the next– on House Unamerican Activities Committee. (Pause) My name is there. They– They knew guys in Folsom– out in California, and that– that blew that one. They got– They got uh– The heat come down on that House Unamerican Activities Committee–
Woman talks over him: – San Francisco–
Jones: –Berkeley, yeah. Raised all that fuckin’ hell on the steps, so the House Unamerican Activities Committees meeting was delayed, and the delay went on, the delay, until– they never did call me. And I didn’t know what else to do. He had an adopted child and another boy that he’d reared. I– I thought I’d have to go to the Soviet Union, for the sake of the family. It was awful being a communist in those days. That son of a bitch– nobody had any idea. It was terrible. (Pause) They’re lying to you all the fuckin’ time, giving me hell– but ignore me in the press. That’s what they do to you when you got no power. I never understood why they didn’t have the Star– didn’t– their memory banks must have failed them. Why they didn’t remember my communist activities, because they uh– they do all little shit to intimidate you. I brought in um– I brought in some monkeys, and goddamn they splashed me on the front page with the headline of those fuckin’ monkeys, but wouldn’t– they wouldn’t say anything about politics.
Woman: Umm-hmm.
Jones: That was the closest I ever come to a smear. They still forgot that and let me climb up through the– ‘course, I had the black people behind me, that’s the key. Black community that was behind me, whereas in San Francisco they were against me, ‘cause I denounced (unintelligible).
Man: Right.
Jones: (unintelligible) I had the black community behind me, so I climbed up the– the ladder and uh, the mayor was uh– Mayor (unintelligible name) put pressure on him to appoint me as the Director of the Mayor’s Commission of Human Rights. They have a Jewish community. And that day, the Jewish community and black was– was like that. And so I was appointed mayor– uh, the executive, but the Star never run a fuckin’ word. Not a word about me. (Pause) Wouldn’t run a word. Anybody got appointed to an important commission like that, first commissioner? Not a word. But someplace along the line, they did. I got so much achieved, and nobody got killed, which made me wonder if I was doing a good job– (Pause) Scripps-Howard, which has been put out of business, they praised me highly for what we did, I (unintelligible) integrated three hundred and some establishments. So they love those kind of things. That’s a mistake, you– you mustn’t do that. You mustn’t do that. But I was always conscientious along the road. I couldn’t set back like some of the communists and say, well you don’t do anything to change the system if everybody was suffering. (Pause) But still, it does– it does play in their hands, because I’m here, I’ve done all of this successfully, integrated 300 businesses, and uh, did it with nothing but conciliatory powers. And I saw– I been– I thought, bullshit on this (unintelligible).
Woman: too soft
Jones: Half– half dead, gettin’ assassination threats, uh, the death of my daughter [Stephanie Jones], trying to do all– Suzanne, they followed her one day and had her whole route (unintelligible)– In the middle of it, they spit on Marceline and Jim [Jones Jr.]. (Pause) What else did they do? I don’t know what the fuck they do. Set– set– try to set fire to the house, put dynamite in the church co– uh, basement, put swastikas on my goddamn door, and uh– the thing that finally got, got me was– yeah, head of the (unintelligible) called me and he said, we could use a man like you in the Chamber of Commerce. And he said that (pause) (unintelligible) whatever the fuck it is, junior executive of some damn thing, executive vice president, $25,000 a year, well, goddamn, that was money. I told people in our church, and they thought I ought to ta– take it. I told them no, no, I ain’t taking that. I don’t– I don’t need uh, that kind of money. He said, you know any other way to get that man like you. ‘Cause the conspiracies were not– He was an elder in the same denomination I was in. He was telling me, they’ll get my ass–
Man: Right.
Jones: –if you don’t comply with this, they’ll get my ass. And all kinda shit broke loose. They stabbed me– black man stabbed me, five dollars, he’s drunk, and they set– the police have to catch– catch him, and I uh– give the guy his ass running around the back side of the house just in time, the police would be hearing there was trouble. Shooting out there in– the neighborhood, and I lived in the worst ghetto in town. I mean, we were shooting– we were shooting water. I said Don’t fire. Fire! Pow! (Laughs) I said don’t– don’t fire. Pow! Somebody leaps over the fuckin’ grape arbor, they go screaming down the way, he hit him in the ass, I don’t know. We shooting back, well, pop pop (makes sounds of bullet flying), Molotov cocktail (makes sounds of bullet flying) (stumbles over words) this going on all the goddamn time, we’re only in town for three hours (people talk together) police, can’t find nobody, neighbors (unintelligible), and people that run down the street, get out of the m– get out of the mess. They combine cars– they combine cars and throw these fuckin’ molotov cocktails. People abandon their houses, went out the backside and down in the alley. And then the son of a bitch, when I went out, was starting that fuckin’ thing with my tank in the car, I think, I don’t know what– but someday I went out, and they get– they got a man– they hit me and– they got me right here. It wasn’t but superficial, but it was only ‘cause he was drunk, and uh– and I thought, oh shit, now what is this? Now, when you throw it to another man– You know me. Well, we gotta ask you some questions, and they showed him a picture. They showed him a picture (unintelligible) two cops, always two cops. They showed him (unintelligible word). Two cops did it. And he said– I said, get his ass out of there. Get his ass out of there. (unintelligible) Aaaah! (unintelligible) I got my shirt changed, ‘cause (unintelligible) They said, We hear, Reverend Jones, that you’re having trouble here, there’s some difficulty in the neighborhood. I said why no, there’s no difficulty in the neighborhood. Come around, flashed all their lights (unintelligible for several moments) – for three hours, three hours (unintelligible) it damn near hit her– hit her head, shot through Patty’s [Cartmell] hair (laughs). Or Richmond Stahl, damn near hit him, dug out the bullet, said, (unintelligible) he knows, Richmond remembers. (unintelligible) Poisoned my dogs. Sonsabitches poisoned– you know, they’re mean when you cross their little old system of things. (unintelligible)