Q050 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1, Pt. 2).

(Note: This tape was one of the 53 tapes initially withheld from public disclosure.)

Jones: -and the American system didn’t care and, uh, they fi- they’re doing such phenomenal things just because of the glasses. Is this the price we’re gonna pay, we gonna start already, not a week old, not a week old, but we lose glasses and have them broken up by the score?

Male: Well, they- they- they draw the line.

Jones: Can’t do it. Their price went up a ten- We thought we was going to get them 10,000- 20,000 dollars. This business, it’s outrageous. I cannot stand to see that again, I will not be able to be- be picking up six lives, dead bodies, and bringing them back to life. You can’t expect me to do that. I’m getting along in years and responsibility, you can’t expect it. If you don’t make this serious, you’re going to be in a sad state of effect. It’s (tape edit) (unintelligible) scary as hell to take these chances with peoples’ lives. There’s more value than that to us than (tape edit) (unintelligible) times to learn our lesson.

(Female voice interrupts, unintelligible)

Jones: That’s the way of keeping- it’s- keep- that’s the way of keeping in control of what uh, you’re instructed to do.

Female: Well, the only way I could do that is to stay at home and watch the birdie at all times.

Jones: (tape edit) (unintelligible) you saying?

Female: (Unintelligible) (Tape edit)

Jones: (tape edit) (unintelligible) Arise at uh, 7 and then work from 8 until 12. I do not know whether we will receive any guests tomorrow or not. I’m not so inclined to, um, be told when to receive guests. We came 6000 miles to establish ourselves here with certain amount of autonomy, and uh, we have received, (stumbles over words) as of today and yesterday, the backing of the PPP [People’s Progressive Party] in our stance against this reactionary right wing (pause) congressperson [Leo Ryan] coming in. Even Radio Demerara, the private radio, called him a re- reactionary. I see no reason why we should, uh, (pause) allow people to push us from our position-

(voices of agreement)

Jones: -and uh, we are here. There’s not much they can do with us, uh, I saw Chief Joseph last, so you saw what I- what I am in Chief Joseph. That’s where I stand. I- What is it? What was the title of it?

(Voices murmuring in the background)

Jones: I- I’ll fight no more forever, and if we- if this is the kind of commitment we have, to just keep on letting folk come in when they want to come and doing what they want to do with us, that isn’t my kind of lifestyle.

(Voices of agreement)

Jones: I didn’t come this far to be pushed about by someone from Burlingame or San Mateo, and uh- now we found the CIA, we found our link, he’s the catalyst. We found out just exactly that. He is the catalyst. They came stormrolling into our, our headquarters last evening and said uh, “Sharon [Amos],” he said, “I know some bad things on you,” and he said “you people paying your- you to- you are, uh, um, taxpayers,” and he said, “I got a right to come wherever I want to, whenever I want to, walk wherever you want to.” But he doesn’t seem to realize that we are- we never put any burden on the United States ta- taxpayers. We uh, have always paid our taxes heavily and never took any exemption, and uh, what we do in Guyana and what we do in America is two different things.

(Voices of agreement)

Jones: He says the Constitution- the Constitution gives him the right to come down here and see us, because we’re American taxpayers. The Constitution doesn’t give him any right to go anywhere that- there he’s not invited. (tape edit) (unintelligible) We didn’t elect him. We don’t, we didn’t, we didn’t uh, seek his- I said that, I said that, that he’s coming in, he’s coming in. He said he met our basketball team, he said he could see we’re all well physically. But now he wants to see if we’re all psychological, I said we’re, psychologically oriented. I said, “Who in the hell are you? Are you a psychiatrist with the right to speak of our, our psychological uh, uh, balance or not?” And then he said he didn’t see any pictures of Jesus anywhere, and he’s questioning our Internal Revenue [Service exemption]. So you can’t win with a motherfucker like that if you try. You can’t win. There’s no way to win with some son of a bitch like that, so as far as I’m concerned, he can take his uh, he can take his ass back to San Mateo and uh, we’re gonna be at the gate, just like we have always been, and if they want to come through, NBC said they’re gonna come through, and they’re going to come through tomorrow, we’ll see about that. We might collect us a couple of cameras or two, I don’t know.

(Applauding)

Jones: They push us clear up here to the last corner of the- of the globe practically, (stumbles over words) of this continent, we’re right up here at the last point, right on the border of Venezuela. Now if they want a lot of hell here in Venezuela, between Venezuela and Guyana, I’m liable to annex with whoever I feel like tomorrow. I’m, I’m sick of this shit, and I’m liable to sail the Russian flag. I don’t know what the hell I’m gonna do. But I- I do know this- I know this, that I didn’t come to be pushed around and be told what I’m gonna do, where I’m gonna go, and who I’m gonna be visiting with. I did- (tape edit) I want to tell him, and I want to tell the whole wu- wide world just how I feel on that subject. It’s to- may be taking your life in your hand, but I take your life in my hand every day anyway. (tape edit) I lived in San Francisco, I’d probably been run over by a street car by now anyway. And we’re certainly- A lot of us who’ve been mugged or we’da been knifed, or we’d have been- we’d have been through all kinds of hell, we were dying, we- what do we- what have we been raised up for, to be cowards?

(voices of disagreement)

Jones: We been raised up to run clear over here to find some peace to have that son of a bitch come up out of San Mateo and tell us- He said he can drop in to see us because we’re taxpayers, he don’t have to give us any appointment. I’m gonna send a 1000, my God, of our people back there around San Francisco and say yeah, you son of a bitch, we’re paying your taxes, we’re paying your job. We’re gonna drop in and see you whenever we want to, midnight or in the morning.

(Voices of agreement)

Jones: (tape edit) -want to. They’re going be a lot of- they’re gonna be a lot of people who di- disagree with what I’ve said. Lot of people running scared around here. I could smell it in the damned atmosphere. They’re running scared. Hell’s fire, we’ve been through 84 White Nights.

(Applauding)

Jones: (tape edit) (unintelligible) What are we gonna say to him in the first place? What are we gonna say to the son of a bitch come in here, where is you- where have you- what do you believe? We believe in that Jesus saves. Now I don’t know what Jesus- about any- about Jesus saves. What do we want to tell him about our church? He said we’re not, (stumbles over words) he’s got a responsibility to look at our IRS. You can’t win, I’m telling you, with this kind of a prick. You can’t win. Our children treated him (stretches out word) all nice, he met the basketball team, come tripping in our house at midnight last night. At midnight, then come tripping in there and telling Sharon Amos, he said “I’ve heard a lot of dirty stuff about you, I’m going to talk to you privately.” I said, “Tell him to go to hell and uh, and get lost.” You don’t have to tell him anything. He’s not your counselor. He’s not your goddamned priest. He thinks he’s sent down here from the holy father of Rome, and the Constitution and the Monroe Doctrine gives him the privilege to go ever- wherever he wants to, it also gives me the right to shoot him in the ass with one of uh, Tom Grubbs’ (unintelligible) (tape edit). So you want to see your congressman tomorrow, stick around, he may come in. I don’t know what- how long he’ll stay, and I don’t know what uh, necessarily will take place and what kind of sequential arrangement. But I can assure you that if he stays long enough for tea, he’s gonna regret it.

(Applauding)

Jones: (tape edit) Son of a bitch. You got something to say to him, you want to talk to him?

Crowd: No!

Jones: Anybody here want to see him?

Crowd: No!

Jones: I didn’t vote for him and I don’t know where is- Burlingame is. A few of you may have been there. I didn’t come from Burlingame. I don’t want nothing from Burlingame, I left it all there, goddamn it, I have left it all there, and I don’t want to see his ass. It’s my opinion they start this shoving our ass around, and there won’t be no end to it. We’ll have- We’ll have President [Jimmy] Carter and about 18 more that’ll be here on Christmas Day to see us. (unintelligible phrase) They’re liable to put us- they’re liable to do that, they’re liable to put us in jail. I don’t give a goddamn where they put us. I don’t give a goddamn where they put us. (tape edit) NBC will never have anything like they had- Nothing, nothing can be as drastic as we could make this program if we want to. You know, if they insist on coming in, we’ll co- we will bring them in in fanfare. We’ll bring them in fanfare. Fly the flag and the hammer and the sickle and give them the right- right hand salute and tell them that’s what we believe in. How would you like- how would you like that?

(Voices of agreement, applauding)

Jones: (tape edit) -chicken-hearted. All the chicken-hearted, better- we better get used to this now, we been through this. If you gotta- If you- if you’re a little chicken-hearted tonight, you better- you better be talking about it, because what I’m saying is serious business. They’ll come through the gates. That’s it. That’s as far as they come. I- I don’t want to see him, I didn’t invite him, and I’m gonna see my attorney here tomorrow. They’re supposed to come in, and I don’t give a damn what they have to say, I don’t want to see him. Not until he comes on our terms, until they all come on our terms. Do we have (unintelligible word), do we want to see them?

(Voices of agreement)

Jones: (tape edit) You may be seated for a minute. The question is, does anyone want to see any of your relatives?

(Voices of disagreement)

Jones: Bu, [Clare] Bouquet, Bouquet, Mrs. Bouquet says she’s had a change of heart, she’s been watching our children play basketball over by the sea wall and she says she- she’s verysorry she’d been influenced by these people. Who do you want- do you want to see her, Brian [Bouquet]? How would you like to see her? (Pause) I- I gathered- I thought you did. I thought you wanted to see her in some way. (Pause) I see, I see. (Pause) (tape edit) -concern. That woman never had any concern about that child when he was out into all kinds of trouble, she never bothered about him. Never- never had any concerns. Now she’s all of a sudden amicable and concerned. Now we got ourselves in a, a little bit of link with the Houston. Uh- We invited Mr. [Robert] Houston, because he was dying of cancer, and he couldn’t make it, but Mrs. [Nadyne] Houston did. So they got that message all fouled up back there in San Francisco. I said uh, it was just Jim Jones’ mercy, ’cause he was dying of cancer, but I didn’t say anything about Mrs. Houston. I don’t know how long she’s living. If you want to bring her in, it do- it doesn’t make any difference. I’m- At this stage, it’s up to you. I’m just speaking for myself. I’m tired of being pushed around, shoved around- (Pause)

Female: (Unintelligible)

Jones: You know what? I got a feeling you can’t trust any American, including (unintelligible)-

(Voices of agreement, applauding)

Jones: When he walked out, he looked up to our boys, and he said to all of them, he said “This is a basketball team.” Yeah, they’re uh, all steady boys, and he said they were quietand spaced out, and he said he didn’t know- he knew they had enough to eat, but he didn’t know whether they were psychologically sound. I’m telling you, when you look at my basketball team, as rowdy a bunch as that is, and you can say anything about them being- uh, some question about their psychological soundness, he’s- it’s- he’s showing more than hereveals about than he possibly can imagine. He’s showing more than reveals what he is than what they are. But I don’t- I don’t feel comfortable about this fool coming out here testing our psychiatric balance.

(Voices of agreement)

Jones: I don’t know where he went to school. You know, I don’t know anything about him. Uh- There ain’t no way we’re gonna win if we- if we can’t can win for losing. If he comes out here, he’ll say we’re brainwashed.

(Voices of agreement)

Jones: Or we’re spaced out, our eyes look extended, and- they probably will, ’cause we, we had- to- to look at him, it’ll take a little bit of extending to do that, so I don’t think you canwin with these sons of bitches and I’m- I’m 47 years, I’ve been running from folk for 47 years only for others. I want to shoot somebody in the ass like him so bad, so long, I- I’m not passing this opportunity up. Now if they come in, they come in, they come in on their ownrisk. That’s what I figure.

(Voices of agreement, applauding)

Jones: They’re a bunch of shitheads.

(Applauding)

Jones: Old T.O. Stoen, he said- he said I’ve sent a message with the- the one that had been infiltrating [Joe Mazor]. He sent a message, he said, well, tell Jim that he- I- he coulda got out of all of this trouble by just sending me back John [Victor Stoen]. Uh- He took John, he- he put John here, he put John in this place. John’s my son, he has no right over John, and it- the only thing they’re trying to do to keep himself out of jail, because Grace [Stoen] says that if he’ll get John back, then things will be right. He said, he- he had the nerve to go to Walter Duncan and say if you- if he, he don’t, if he’d quit while he’s ahead, Jim Jones, all he has to do is just give me John, then I’ll get off of his back. Hell’s fire. Hell’s fire. He won’t get off my back. If I’d give ’em all of you, they wouldn’t get off my back. And he’s gonna stop the wheels from turning? They’ve already started turning. And I don’t know about you, I just wanted to be sure you understood where I’m coming from. I don’t care whether I see Christmas or Thanksgiving, neither one. (tape edit) You don’t either.

(Voices of agreement, applauding)

Jones: ­(tape edit) (unintelligible) -we been debating about dying till, hell, it’s easier to diethan to talk about it.

(Applauding)

Jones: So if everyone feels that way, how about, how- I’d- I’d rather, I’d rather live like Chief Joseph and die like he did. I’ve- I’ve lost everything practically but my damn britches now. Losing pounds, worrying over these motherfuckers, and I don’t give a shit. I worry about what you people think, because you’re wanting- trying to hold on to life, but I’ve been trying to give my way for a long time, and if that fucker wants to take it, he’ll– he can have it, but he’ll have a hell- a hell of a time going together.

(Voices of agreement, applauding)

Jones: I didn’t give them when they came after the- the- the uh, Houston children before, I didn’t give them. I didn’t give them the children of a lot of folk here, setting here that’re now here that wasn’t gonna come. I got my folks, and uh, and it’s tough, I’ve got them over in Caracas worrying about them, trying to get them operated. People who uh, wouldn’t give- nobody gets the kind of care I’m giving folk to keep them alive.

(Voices of agreement)

Jones: You say what’ll happen if uh, if something happens to us. I don’t know. Everybody has to work it out on their own. I know it don’t take long to die. It don’t take long to die. You can put your damn nose down in a glass of water and die if you want to. You can drown in its- you can drown in a tea cup. So, I- I- At some point- Everyone has to make up their own mind. Have to ride on their own damn wheels. But I’m talking about this time seriousbusiness. (Emphatic) I am not moving no more.

(Applauding)

Jones: (tape edit) If you want to move, talk about it. Talk about it, talk about it tonight, if you want to move. All of you want to go to Kansas City, talk about it. ‘Cause we want to get your ass to Kansas City, so we can have some peace and not have to look at you, because I don’t even want to die with some of you folk.

(Applauding)

Jones: What’s that? (Pause) If the Congressman comes in (unintelligible) then we, as taxpayers, shall request a sign, or a pe- a petition for his impeachment. I wonder how he would eat, uh, set with this– uh, fuck, what- I can’t read none of this. How this would set with the fucker, uh, (short laugh)- What does this say, Rinetta, you talk so bad.

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: If the congressman comes into the front entrance because of the citizen’s- his citizen’s rights, then we as taxpayers would request to sign a petition for his impeachment. I wonder how this would set with the fucker. If we presented him- to him- this to him. I don’t care. Try it. Hell. Try anything. I know Jerry Bailey [Geraldine Bailey] tomorrow and uh, I can assureyou Jerry Bailey and Jane [probably Mary Jane Bailey] won’t let them in unless we say let them in. And uh, you- you can uh, you can be down there, damn sure that uh- NBC said they’re coming, whether we want them or not. Yeah, they’re coming, they’re coming. They say they’re coming. So I figure that, uh, you can be ready at the gate for that, if they want to come in? Hmm? You have no transportation.

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Let them walk. Let them walk. Let them walk.

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Uh, what’s that?

Male: I said let them get down to the piggery, and we’ll let them see how our pond swims.

(Laughter)

Jones: That sounds all right by me. Everyone understand what I’m talking about?

(Voices of agreement)

Jones: I’ll fight no more forever. I’ve run from these motherfucking sons of bitching honkies as long as I want to run from them.

(Voices of agreement, applauding)

Jones: Now, this way- this way, a few, (unintelligible word) maybe we can start negotiating with the Soviets, and a few can make it uh, over there. I’m not very particular where I go or not anymore. I’m not very particular, ’cause, shit, I believe we’re the purest communists there are and so, uh, we got- we got more uh, we got more support than we’ve ever had. Russia said they’ll make an international incident, if it uh, comes to that. The PPP has given us power, two days of powerful support. The PNC [People’s National Congress], if they don’t know whether to shit or get off the pot, that’s their problem. Dr. Green [Hamilton Green, Guyana Minister of Health, Housing and Labor] says he’s behind us. Margaret Ackman [leader in Guyana’s People’s National Congress] is behind us, and a few others are behind us. I don’t know how far behind us they’ll be, if it comes to a showdown.

(laughter)

Jones: But, uh, (clears throat) I am just tired. I’ve spent a week worrying about your lives. I spent a week worrying about who I’m gonna save, and how I’m gonna save them, and uh, I don’t see any point to worrying about living like this. Living isn’t worth a damn, doing this.

(Voices of agreement)

Jones: And if any of you are worried about your life, will you speak up so we can vote you someplace where you can find your ass at peace until the bomb blows you up. Anybody want me- anybody want to go against the- go against the- I’m talking business tonight. I’m talking business. I’m not gonna talk no White Night all night long, I’m not gonna talk about it. So how many- how many would just as soon die as live anyway?

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: I see the climate hasn’t changed much.

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: No, no, no.

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: No, no, no. To be shoved around, pushed around. What?

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: No, no, no. Fifty-five-year-old white man come tripping in our house and sit down. It’s a wonder, my tw- I’m surprised at my basketball team. I’m surprised.

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: It’s a wonder they didn’t.

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: (Short laugh) He didn’t say- he always said he liked- he liked them, they’re were all so nice, he liked them until they got in the news conference there. But he is so damn obnoxious that he won’t even invite the Guyanese to his news conference. He’s- He’s abovethe Guyanese. He has the Washington Post there and NBC Nightly, and uh, all these others, but the Guyana Chronicle wasn’t invited, nor was the PPP, they had- they got our news release, and the Catholic Standard. He thinks he owns this part of the world. He’s coming over here, (clears throat) sure as hell does just under the Monroe Doctrine, he thinks he owns his- We are American taxpayers, says he, and I never once asked for a damn exemption. Have you?

(Voices of disagreement)

Jones: I take whatever they gi- whatever they handed out, for years we pu- we took standard exemptions. We never asked for any special privilege. We’ve taken people off the goddamnstreets, we’ve saved the taxpayers millions of dollars, I mean in broken lives, broken wasted youth that would have been out there in the streets of San Francisco, shit. I’m- I say turn around first and go back. Turn around and go back. I’m not- I’m not gonna do it. I’m not gonna do it. I know you can’t turn around, we’ve come too far, this far by faith, we can’t go no far- no farther than that. Now, if the- if uh, anybody has any feelings about it, you betterspeak now, ’cause I saw some hands didn’t go up. You better speak now. I’m talking serious business. I sit here and debated this goddamned thing all night, and I’ve just decided. It’s your privilege. It’s your life, you know. I’ve- I’ve lived 47 years and I wouldn’t live another fucking day if it wasn’t for you. (Pause) And I got- I’ve got three, three [Stephan Jones, Timothy Tupper Jones, Jimmie Jones] to concern myself that I brought in. That three scars. Three heavy burdens. And they’re not with me and uh- one of them’s not with me and all of the children that I’ve adopted are not with me. You say, well, what of my kids, what about my kids? Well, where in the hell is- are your kids? Were are they? They had the right to be here. Had the opportunity to be here.

Male: (unintelligible) Damn right.

Jones: Anybody got- anybody- feelings, I know you gonna have some feelings tonight. You better get your- better- better get your security out ’cause I know the way the wind blows. I can smell when folk are afraid. (Pause) ‘Cause we been- we been here, um, this has uh, this is running on now 16, what is it, 18 months? Eighteen months and we’ve been through, I said something like 80 times, I guess, 80 times we were up here debating, do we or do wenot, and if so, how. Ah, fuck it, I’m- fuck it, I’m sick of it.

Male in crowd: Right.

Scattered voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: Just sick of it. I think you all lo- all love Tim Stoen- I’d rather die than to be there and let Tim Stoen- Hope he comes in. Hope he comes, and Brian says who- how he fa- feels, and some of you look at him kind of funny like you think that’s the wrong way to feel, but I hope- I- I think that’s the way you ought to feel if people been wrong.

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: I- Yes, yes, yes. I- I like that, I like that. Steve Katsaris and uh, the whole bunch of them. Rose is ready over there, I see. Yeah.

(Voices)

Jones: Who’s coming? I don’t know. Nobody comes unless we let them come. What do you think, to let them in tonight? Do you think they won’t come back next week?

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: They come back stronger.

(Voices of agreement)

Jones: In my opinion, they’ll come back stronger. Now-

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: What’s that?

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: What’s he mean by this? (short laugh) I missed that.

Male: (unintelligible) Let them in, I’m the one that (unintelligible) kill before.

Jones: Oh. Oh.

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: (laughs)

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: What?

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: They’re hunting for a doctor. They say we ate a doctor out here. He never has shown up. Said he came here to visit us and we ate him.

(Laughter)

Jones: They did, they did. Hunting for a doctor. Reb [James Edwards], Reb- (laughs)

(Laughter)

Jones: Reb knows better than that, we wouldn’t eat no damn doctor. (laughs)

(Laughter)

Jones: They’ve- They’ve lost a doctor, and they’re coming out here to see if they can find him. You can’t- I’m te- telling you can’t- you can’t win with these folk. How you gonna- how are they gonna judge your psychology, do you think, they look at you tonight?

Male: Hit ’em in the eyes first.

Jones: Yes, I- I agree with that.

Female: (Unintelligible) uh, Karl Menninger, who said uh- (mike comes on) Karl Menninger, who is the world’s- one of the world’s greatest authorities on that, said that onlyselfish people end up in mental institutions, and Catholics are selfish and we’re not. So that should tell them what the psychology is.

Jones: That’s good. That’s good. Anybody want uh- anybody got any thoughts on the subject, that’s uh, different, because I just don’t- I don’t want to debate all night. I’m open to- to change, but I don’t want to debate all night. Your change. I mean, you can go where you want to go, I am- I’m not gonna go, but uh, you can go.

(unintelligible discussion, laughter in the background)

Jones: What’s this?

Female: (Unintelligible) -Yankees go home.

Jones: Yankees go home, I’m with you, Etta [Thompson].

Female: Yankees go home (Unintelligible) -go home-

Jones: What’s that, Irene?

Female: (Unintelligible)

Jones: (tape edit) (Unintelligible) the meeting with our team, they’re meeting with our team, Grace talked to Steve [Stephan Jones], she said she had heard from Debbie [Layton Blakey] that people were turning- were turning John against her and he said no, John’s very happy and a remarkable kid, and she said, “I’ve been messed up ever since I’ve left and didn’t know what to do with myself.” She said she can’t live without seeing John. She cried the whole (hiccups) time. Oh, dear Grace. Goddamn, I wish she’da cried when she started this shit. Stephan said, “I just- I can’t live without him either. He’s my little brother.” She said, “I just want to see him. I’ll go out even to the front entrance.” Now that’s inviting, I’m telling you, goddamn. You don’t know how much of a lie this is, because I’ve already got a newspaperarticle that they’ve read- they’ve written, which she said that uh, John was not my child, and now she tells Stephan he is my child, and I see in the- man, I see their goddamn newspaper, in the Esquire where they’re going to- they said they’re going to uh, see us all dead. They tr- Some of these same suckers here trying to hire these- uh, these- these- these outlaws to blow up our radio room and our power station, now they’re starting this sweet shit. They’re coming on with sweet shit, you better tell the basketball team to watch it, ’cause there is trickeration and they’ll have them- they’ll have one of them kidnapped. You better- you better get a hold of Johnnie [Cobb]- uh, Jim Cobb wouldn’t- he wouldn’t talk, uh, Johnnie [Cobb] wasn’t there, but uh, that’s what worries me more, because I know that Jim Cobb and I know that Wayne Pietila, I tell you I don’t trust his ass any further than I could throw it. Right now that’s not far. She, um- “Even my little brother,” she said, “I just want to see him, I’ll go out even to the front entrance.” Oh Grace, goddamn, that tears me. She- she had the damn nerve- that woman had the damn nerve, you know, to uh, to tell, what was, ’72, ’73, how old is John? Six? Seven? ’72, she- she was going to put our church under, over, uh- in fact she knew about Stoen, and Stoen asked me to take care of her, ’cause he couldn’t handle the damn woman. She had his pantaloons that he’d been buying, going around dressed like a weird transvestite and uh- so he asked me to take care of her, and that damn woman, if he- any- if any woman is as stupid as that, she deserves- she deserves to meet me at the front entrance. I’ll tell you, I remember- I remember Patty [Cartmell] over there helping get the stuff ready, and that woman promised there’d be no children. Wasn’t that a promise- uh, wasn’t that a promise, Patty? Wasn’t that a promise? Patty, where are you at? She’s not here. Well, I know it was. She had some goddamn stuff she’s supposed to put it in there and keep it and then I couldn’t get her to do anything with that baby. (Pause) I don’t want that now, damn it. I don’t want that. They’re gonna have to fool those people, they keep fooling with them, they’ll have trouble. (tape edit) (unintelligible word) He ought to be- he ought to be bitter. Sherwin [Harris] said that Bonnie Burnham [aka Bonnie Thielmann] was very hurt because she wanted to see Jim and Marcy [Marceline Jones] because she was sort of like their adopted- Jesus Christ. This is incredible. These people have written an article. I got the article in my- I’ve got- I’ve got- I’ve got the article. These are snakes. (Pause) (tape edit) (unintelligible word) said that to Grace that as far as he’s concerned, Tim could fuck himself, and he said fine, he has nothing to do with you and me. Well, that’s good. (tape edit) Tell these kids, they’re walking through, they’re walking through- they better get out of there now. You better get ’em out of there. They’re showing the sweet side now, their sunny side up. Trouble tomorrow. I know what Stoen said, he said we’re so evil, that we’re the most evil thing on earth and he’s gonna- that he stayed alive for no other cause, but to destroy us. And Grace said that if she- if he would get the kid back for her, she’d take him back, ’cause he’s lost all other chances- and here then they tell me these kind of goddamn lies and people want to fall for this shit? I don’t- I don’t want to fall for this. He even said there was nothing to indicate we were a religious group, and that if we were making money in Jonestown, it would be a tax problem? Ah, fuck him too. About an hour, he said that he- (tape edit) had relatives, et cetera, should be able to see for themselves. Uh, what? There’s a point to that, I’m telling you.

Male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: (tape edit) There should nothing be- uh, to be afraid of showing. And he said this was not prepared, he was not prepared to prejudge, if it was okay, he would tell the world. Paul [probably McCann] said he came in later, only two Guyanese there, him and uh, Halaman Maladin [probably Mohamed Hamaludin, a Guyanese journalist], the main thing was, he was very firm that he did not think we were a religious group and he mentioned the IRS a lot. I’m telling you, this damned fool is not satisfied one way or the other. He’s got me a cult back there, and now I’m not a religious group here. Maladin said the reason Ryan didn’t want Mark [Lane] there because he was afraid, he didn’t want to be in a position where Mark might later sue him or make him a part of a conspiracy action. In other words he’s afraid ofMark. That’s good, that’s good. (unintelligible word) and Margaret Ackman both offended by Ryan’s comments about religion, lack of religious objects, et cetera, said it would be superficial judgement of things. Now, Grace, uh, who, who, who, (unintelligible)- Grace, Steve Katsaris, Wayne, Mickey [Touchette], they gonna- these people would have to- have to get them in there now- they’re gonna have to get them out of there. They’re (stumbles over words) have to get them out of there. I know that’s uh, that’s a bunch of snakes now. Hmm? They got to get them out of there, ’cause these are snakes. These are snakes. I’ve read what they done. You didn’t. I’ve already got the advance copy. I know what they’ve done, I know what they got to say. I know what they said- they said they’d come in here- they’d come in here if they had to kill everybody, Mickey Tou- Mickey Touchette clapped, (claps softly as he speaks for several seconds) she said, I only want to save my brother, Mike [Touchette]. If the rest of them die, that’s good. That’s good. And he won’t talk to her. She made a badmistake. He won’t talk to her. (Pause) Mike reminded her of what she used to talk about, doing violence, and she denied it, and he said, “Look, cut it, I was there when you talkedabout it,” and she shut up. Mickey said, “Look, are you under any restrictions?” And he said, “Don’t say that again, obviously if I wouldn’t- if I was, I wouldn’t be here.” And she said, “Why don’t you come home with me?” He said, “This is my home, I’ve seen it grown and I’m not going anywhere. I’ve been here for five years.” She said, “Well, that’s what I wanted to know, wanted to know, to he- to hear. Everyone- one said they saw the slides of Jonestown at the Embassy, they said you should be proud of it, not try to hide it.” Steve assured Sherwin that his daughter is happy and doing fine. He said he had no quarrels with JJ and thanked us for the care we gave when she had surgery. Grace said, “Why can’t I see John?” Well, you give me an answer why she can’t see John- (pause, mumbling in the background) Um hmm. She not going to destroy him because she told m- she- ah- anybody torture, uh, I, I’d gone a long way, hell, to save you people, I’d a gone a long way. But uh, she- she took that child and- and uh, when (sighs), when I had him, she didn’t want to- to take any responsibility, she was seductive mother, had him all so messed up, and then when she took him out one time when I wouldn’t marry her, when I said, “My wife comes first, I’d have to con- I’d have to talk to her about that,” so she gets another boyfriend and she goes out and has an affair and locks him up in a garage and he still tells me photographically about that and he- he can remember every sound and thi- this bitch- Who was she trying to punish, who was she trying to punish? Me, not the child, she’s trying to destroy the child, uh, trying to destroy the child by punishing me- what the hell’s more.

(Silence for several moments, interrupted by short snippet of tape recorded at different speed and radio communications)

Part 2: Jones on P.A.

Jones: Come to rest for just a few minutes, to get some rest, lay down, rest, groom yourself so you look well, dress the very best you can. We will probably not be seeing these people before five o’clock, before five o’clock. So please, will you dress and uh, be prepared, our attorneys-

(Yelling from the crowd, unintelligible)

(Pause)

Jones: -you should not have anything to say if they give you a letter, take the letter, don’t open the damn letter, turn the letter in to Rita Lenin [Rita Tupper], uh, ’cause they’d say anything and everything, don’t even act like you’re that anxious to hear from them. Be friendly, be cordial, if anyone comes in- (tape edit) You don’t know who’s coming in at this time. But we urge you to go and rest in your rest home, security. See the people are- see if- see if there’s a circlement, security, I urge you, see that there is an encirclement, so that theywill rest and people will not be playing around, I’m talking about kids, I’m talking about adults, I’m talking about everything. Have the place cleaned up as possible. They’re in the process where they could take the first hour to uh, do something about that so the place looks spot clean as- uh, uh, clean as it can be, but then get to rest, get to rest, get to rest, and stop the landing at Port Kaituma. It must not be- No landing at Port Kaituma. It’s too early. We’ll be caught with our pants down. Too early. We’ll be caught with our pants down. (Pause) They’re know they’re liars, Charles Garry knows they’re liars, Mark- Mark Lane knows they’re liars, there’s nothing we will gain as far as the truth, but they can (unintelligible)- congressional investigation. Now we don’t want more of them crawling on in a couple of weeks. That’s the thing- anything, anything to avoid more of these suckers coming in, because somebody’s tensions are going to flare. Someone’s tensions are going to flare. So please listen, go home, we will notify you a half an hour before they come in, and then don’t waste your time, be under the pavilion, and we’ll have an entertainment show, our entertainment show, and a good meal prepared for everyone-

(Loud yelling interrupts, unintelligible).

Jones: (tape edits) -eating while you enjoy the show.

Female: Greedy.

Jones: No one will be landing before five o’clock (unintelligible)- five o’clock- Please listen to what I am saying, I am trying to save us our babies. Who in the hell cares about us, it’s our babies that we’re (unintelligible word) thinking of. Please listen to me. I am listening to our attorneys. These people are trying to set us up. And as far as your relatives coming up to talk to you, be civil, but don’t, uh, don’t get en­gaged into long conversation with them, just take whatever damn letter that the uh, they want to give you or whatever they want to say, butdon’t fall for their sweetness. The first thing they try is sweetness, but we have advanced copies of newspaper articles and television where they have lied atrociously about us all. Me, you, everyone. They know how to play a game. They’re brainwashed. They accuse us of being brainwashed, they’re the robots, and you’ve got to be extremely careful, extremely careful. And- and Joyce [probably Touchette, could be Rozynko], keep your charge, keep your charge, keep your charge. We are in this- probably the closest point in the horns of a dilemma, the closest point to the horns of a dilemma. We do not want to see all of our children sacrificed over a jackass from San Mateo. (Pause) Everybody understand that? Marceline will follow up with the instructions. There should be everything cleaned up, there shouldn’t be anything laying around, this place should be spot cleaned (unintelligible word), it’s better to see it in the dark than in the daytime, and we will not have them back tomorrow. We will not have them back tomorrow. They see us in the dark or as close to the dark, it’s better, it’s better, it’s much better.

(radio static)

Jones: Now one thing before it’s finished, I love you, and that love has carried you thus far, and it could carry you on. Be in peace, don’t talk to any of these people unless you’re asked to and uh, tell them how happy you are, you tell them what your food is, how much food, how much meat that we eat. We have all kinds of varieties of foods, fruits, every day, everyday. And we have everything we need, that you wouldn’t go back to the United States if someone were to give you a ticket tomorrow. Please listen, and now anyone that’s not called by them to see them, that they don’t seek out, do not talk to them. And some of you who are not relatives of them, do not have to, you can say hello and move out of their way, move out of their way. Please listen to your father, move out of the way. This is an avoidance of, uh- I don’t mind a, a confrontation. God, it would be easier than living. Living is- living is a pain in the ro- royal asshole. So Charles Garry and Mark Lane will be with them, so please, please, please listen to what I’m saying. Follow my instructions to the letter. Don’t try to approach them. If they give you a letter, don’t even open the damn letter in front of them, just take the letter and give it to Rita Lenin, as we always follow procedure. ‘Cause if you are being served with some kind of paper- Who knows what’s in the damn paper inside the letter, so that if you haven’t read it, you’re not responsible for it. Also, if it’s just an ordinary letter, we will tell you, you could read it after Rita Lenin has seen it, and seen it is not some kind of service order or some service papers or some kind of notice. Please follow my instructions, follow my instructions closely, listen to me, listen to me. I’ve had no sleep in eight hours but I’m still very alert- I mean, eight days I’ve had no sleep to speak of. Pleaselisten to me. To take the letters or whatever in the hell- and uh, be cordial but don’t be a lot of- don’t show a lot of demonstration. Say you’re going to have to prove yourself because we know you’ve lied in newspapers, we have advance warning that you have lied in the newspapers, that you’ve lied to the radio, and that you’ve lied on the TV. Do not be taken in. Please do not be taken in. John must be taken to safety, John must be taken to safety. The court being committed and trusted so much- Please move, please move uh, in another hour or two bef- before- after they hit that gate, please move. We must not have an incident over one child. I don’t want to sacrifice the entire community over my child, the one I’d sacrifice again over my life. Relax, we could come through this. They’re just trying to provoke a damned incident. They want an incident, so they have more room to bring back more of these thugs, these Yankee thugs that come. We could show our patriotism in our song by singing the Guyana anthem and also the uh, uh, the song about America that we sing, “Oh Spa- Oh Beautiful for Spacious Skies, For Amber Waves of Grain.” We’re not a menace to anybody, we’re a peace-loving people. We have not tried. That’s why I told you to put your weapons down, we don’t want any weapons, we don’t want to have any holocaust with our own people, it’s exactly what the CIA wants, a fight between us and our own people. No internal struggle. Marceline will give you further additional information. Please listen, please listen, I only wish I were not so tired, I could help you immediately, but you’ll have to listen to me by P.A. system. I’m very alert, and I’ll be able to handle the situation when the time comes. I love you that- anything goes wrong, I love you. Know that you’ve never been loved so much, not one‑tenth so much as I love you now. And I’ll give my life for you if that’ll help, whatever in the hell will help, I’ll give my life for you, but please follow instructions. Again, I say, do not go near any of these people. Don’t go near any of these people. You could shake hands if they come to shake hands, but don’t say- if they ask if you’re happy, say yes, if they ask you how much you eat, well, we eat everything in the world, we have plenty to eat. We have the best medicines in the world. You can talk about that.

Marceline: Jim, I got a- (Pause) (tape edit) Uh, we don’t know exactly when the people will be coming, but we are united. We know that what we’re doing here is beautiful. (Long pause) Don’t we?

(crowd agrees)

Marceline: We are- What- Dad gave you instructions on how you were to conduct yourself when and if they come in. We’re hoping that it will be tomorrow. Mark Lane and Charles Garry is in Georgetown. Hopefully they’ll be able to be here when they get here. Uh, the way transportation and travel and everything is in Guyana, we can’t be sure, but we are a family, we are comrades, we’ve done what has never been done in the history of the world under the leadership of Jim Jones, and we are here and we’re proud of it.

(crowd agrees and claps)

Marceline: We are – what’s most important – dedicated to live for socialism, total economic and racial and social equality. We are here living communally, and we’re also here working on ourselves to make ourselves more loving, more justice, more just, so that the whole world might be free, and we will follow Dad’s instructions to the T as to how we are to meet these people.

(crowd agrees) (tape edit)

Marceline: There are three songs that I want us to sing, and one of them is the Guyanese national anthem, and someone else will have to lead that. If Anita [Kelley] will, would you-

End of tape

Tape originally posted May 2004

Last modified on May 3rd, 2016.
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