Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.
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Part 1: Phone call
Dan: And uh- I heard that Linda uh- Linda- Linda’s been telling- I- I don’t know, I’m confused, ’cause something’s- something’s uh, pretty mixed up. She- She’s telling lies that I said- I said something about Danny- Danny Pietila knew about her leaving, and I don’t- I can’t trust anybody now. It seems like you’re lying to me.
Woman: No, uh, she told Jim, that- that she saw Danny Pietila and he uh- Well, wait a minute, I’ll let you talk to Linda, and she’ll tell you what she told Jim.
Dan: Okay. Put Linda on the line.
Woman: Well, what Linda wants to do, is to get you, Jim and me and whoever he- Jim wants, all to have a meeting together so we’ll know who’s saying what, instead of just repeating. So Jim, I know, twists around until everybody- looks like everybody’s lying but him.
Dan: You mean, she lied– she lied?
Woman: No, she didn’t. (unintelligible under interruption)
Dan: Well, she lied about Danny Pietila, didn’t she?
Woman: No. She saw Danny, and Danny uh, knew that she was out of the church.
Dan: Yeah, but she told Jim that I– that I– that I had- that I had told her that Danny Pietila was out. She lied about that, didn’t she?
Woman: She didn’t tell Jim that. She said she ran into Danny Pietila.
Dan: She did-
Woman: Jim’s the one that’s doing the lying, then.
Dan: (Drawn out) No.
Woman: Here, let Linda tell you just what she told Jim.
Linda: Danny, I just told him a minute ago that you said that you were in the meeting where Danny Pietila was told that we were out. (Pause) Now, did you not say that to me?
Dan: I did not.
Linda: Danny, you are full of shit. You said, yeah, I was there, but there wasn’t anyone there other than the uh, the people who knew you were gone and the uh, the inner staff people.
Dan: Shu- Well, Danny Pietila wasn’t mentioned.
Linda: Danny Pietila- I just- I listened to you about Ross Case (unintelligible word) calling your mom, and I said, ho- and Danny Pietila knows that we’re out. (Pause) Oh, Danny, this is really ridiculous anyway. I think you’re- goddamn it, you’re all in the meeting out there, now shit. If you want to talk about it, why don’t you just come right on over here right now, let’s have a meeting and get this all out in the open. Okay?
Dan: I-
Linda: Yeah, I- you know, I still believe you were set up to come here, I told you that right at the beginning, and uh, let’s just- let’s get it over with.
Dan: I- I tell you they were chasing after me. (Laughs)
Linda: They weren’t chasing after you.
Dan: Yeah. They didn’t even know where I was at.
Linda: Who? Who was chasing you?
Dan: They had about three people, I guess, besides the two people that (unintelligible under interruption)
Linda: Where are you now?
Dan: (Pause) Uh, I’m out, oh, out at the church.
Linda: Out at the church. Mmm.
Dan: (unintelligible word)
Linda: Nobody else there, huh? They’re all down in San Francisco somewhere at a meeting?
Dan: No, I guess- I guess I was told a story about that.
Linda: You guess what?
Dan: I guess I was told a story about that, ’cause evidently, they’re not. I don’t- I guess there are several committees meeting or something, I don’t know.
Linda: (unintelligible response) (Pause) Well, what else is new? How did you know what I said to Jim, if you haven’t talked to him? (unintelligible) talked to him right now?
Dan: He talked to me.
Linda: Did he? Mmm. (Pause) You weren’t standing right there when you (unintelligible word) him, huh?
Dan: Yeah.
Linda: Maybe. (Pause)
Dan: You know, it’s something though, uh, (Pause) I asked- I asked- you know, I told you I was going to ask Jim some questions, and you know, you had- you had said that uh, Jim said no one- no one burned that church down, that- (Pause) Remember when you- Remember when you- you guys told me that? You said that? That someone had-
Linda: Yeah, I believe that I was with you. Yeah. Umm-hmm. But listen. Dan? Listen. I’m telling you-
Dan: (unintelligible under interruption) The church had lost over a hundred thousand dollars in it.
Linda: No, I don’t believe (unintelligible word), but anyway- I’m not going to say anymore, you know, like I said to Jim when I was talking to him a while ago on the phone, I’m not going to say anything more about what Danny said to me or what I said to Danny, unless we’re all sitting here face to face, because I don’t like this shit. At all. Not one goddamn bit. (Pause) Okay?
Dan: (Sighs)
Tape silence for several seconds
One voice: Goodbye.
Several moments of tape break-up
Dan: I thought somebody was on the line and (mumbles word) just reacted, I- (unintelligible) Ah, things are so mixed up.
Woman: Well, as Linda says, I think our best bet is, if you get Jim and uh, we’ll all face each other and- and say what we have to say, and then somebody can’t say well, this one said that one and that one said this one and- and it turns out to be lie. So I think our best bet is all of us get together and just say what we have to say.
Dan: Yeah. I asked him, though, and he- he said he didn’t understand your saying those things, ’cause- ’cause he was- he was- he was upholding you. I- You’d- Like I told you, he didn’t say anything bad about you. He didn’t make any comments, or he- he’d upheld you.
Woman: Well, I don’t care what he says about me or what he thinks. I know what he thinks. I’ve never been one of his favorite people. So, I mean, I don’t care how- He could praise me to high heavens, and it wouldn’t make me think any more of him.
Dan: (Stumbles over words) I tell you. (Emotional) I don’t know why I’ve been- I’ve been- You know, like I told you about that accident in the car. (Sniffs)
Woman: Yeah.
Dan: Well, he ri- he walked right up to those kids and- All three of them, all three of them that slept through the thing, (unintelligible phrase), and said, there’s- I’ve got to protect you tonight. (Pause) And he- he saved me, too.
Woman: Mmm-hmm.
Dan: And he gave me the (unintelligible phrase).
Woman: Well, he’s given that to a lot of peo- He can say that uh, any- any moment now- I’ve-
Dan: But right-
Woman: I’ve heard other preachers do that, that will say- Allen used to do that, and (unintelligible under interruption)
Dan: But it was right the night before- not less than three hours before it happened, and it- (Emotional) There was- it was- It was real. I- Things like that to happen in the future, you just- you can’t question that.
Woman: Yeah, but you can say that to anybody, and nine times out of ten, somebody’ll have an accident.
Dan: Yeah, but- And then about- now- Hitler. I guess- You know, I made fun of that, but- but I don’t have any goddamn- I don’t have a gift, and when he selected that passage from the book and-
Woman: Well, he knew that you’d read that book.
Dan: But I hadn’t read the book, and it’s over 3000 pages long, and you just can’t pick a quote of a- a whole paragraph and memorize out of a 3000-page book, even if I had read it.
Woman: Well, let’s don’t even talk about building him up. Let’s just have a meeting (unintelligible under interruption)
Dan: I know, but this-
Woman: -where we can all be together, and uh, face each other. I mean, you don’t have to build him up to me. I’ve- I’ve been under him 21 years, and I know what he is.
Dan: Well, why do- why do you hate him so- why do you hate him so much? He’s helped you- He’s helped a lot, even through all, he’s helped a- he’s helped so many.
Woman: Well, then, why would he send you down here to-
Dan: But he didn’t send me down there. I told you. They- They didn’t know where I was, and they were calling all over the place and-
Woman: You’re changing your tune right now, Danny. (Pause) So I- just don’t talk any more until we have a meeting face-to-face with him, Linda and myself, and you, and whoever else you want in on it. You can come down here to the house. (Pause)
Dan: Yeah, I- I guess I’ll have to get hold of him again.
Woman: Okay. You get a hold of him.
Dan: Hold of him. (Pause) Yeah. You do- You do what you have to, but-
Woman: Yeah, (unintelligible under interruption)
Dan: But I ca- I- I just can’t betray him.
Woman: Yeah, well, that’s all right. Just don’t betray him, but-
Dan: Okay. Wait a minute.
(tape silence for several seconds)
Dan: Goodbye.
Woman: Goodbye.
Disconnects
Part 2:
Several people talking in short snatch of conversation
Jones: Well, it’s a private island here, (unintelligible)-
Balance of side one blank
Side 2
Part 3: Meeting
Male: (unintelligible intro) Father asked me to give you this cloth for additional protection.
Woman: Oh, great. Oh, great.
Male: He does appreciate you’re here and appreciates your experience so much.
Woman: Oh, well-
Male: I wish you’d tell me exactly again what happened, because I didn’t quite get (unintelligible word) I was sitting there. Did you telephone yet?
Woman: Uh, no, he didn’t, uh, uh, I think the neighbor (unintelligible word)- I know the first name is Karen.
Male: Um-hmm.
Woman: And uh, she told me and said this is uh, uh, Pastor Jim’s personal secretary. Now, I’m trying to be truthful as far (unintelligible word) Karen Valentine Layton Stoen or somebody. Karen somebody. I do remember the first name was- was- was uh, Karen. And she said uh, he said tell you that we loved you and to stay very close with him, (unintelligible under music).
(several exchanges unintelligible under music)
Male: What did happen?
Woman: I-
Male: Can you tell me?
Woman: No. (Laughs)
Male: He told (unintelligible name under music – Betty?) about it, but anyway, something did happen, huh.
Woman: Yes, it did. Oh, it did.
Male: So something did happen, and you actually were in a dangerous situation.
Woman: Yes, it did
Male: And you feel that, uh, his warning uh-
Woman: Oh, yes. And so, I came down to uh, personally convey my appreciation, and I feel that I communicated with him (unintelligible under music)-
Male: I’m sure. I’m sure you did.
Woman: -appreciate it. And I think you were going to say to (unintelligible under music), it didn’t have to be Jim, it could’ve been me, and I told you that if you go in that house and there is a big snake or a wild deer or somebody there with guns. I’m sure Mr. Kennedy [former President John F. Kennedy] would have appreciated it today, if somebody had told him that [accused assassin Lee Harvey] Oswald was up there waiting on (unintelligible word under music)
Male: Well, I’m sure that’s true.
Woman: And uh, we would have (unintelligible phrase under music). I don’t want to (unintelligible under music), whoever that man is, I’d like to thank him.
Male: Umm-hmm.
(unintelligible under music)
Male: I’m certainly- I’m certainly glad that you did get uh-
Woman: Oh, thank you- (unintelligible under interruption)
Male: That you did get Father’s warning and that you do- and that you did uh, he did help you in that way.
Woman: All right. Yes. He said to ask uh, uh- They said that I could visit whenever I like.
Male: Of course.
(several exchanges too soft, talk over each other)
Male: Well, good. All right. I just wanted to-
Woman: So I might not be- come as regular as I’d like but uh, I always come (unintelligible under background)
Male: Well, that’s nice. You’d be so welcome whenever you come.
Woman: Thank you very much.
Male: You’re welcome.
Woman: And (unintelligible word) again, thank him for this.
Part 4:
(unintelligible exchanges under meeting in back)
Jones: Do you have a black billfold (unintelligible word) –
(tape edit)
Woman: Well, the only thing is that uh, (pause)
(unintelligible exchanges)
Part 5: Conversation by highway
(unintelligible exchanges)
Man 1: Isn’t there anybody close by that you could call in to help you, you know-
Woman: In the meantime-
Man 1: Like have a- like do washes and stuff like that? (Pause) No one- No- No neighbors at all (unintelligible question)
Man 2: (unintelligible sentence) neighbors. No, I ain’t talking about stuff like that. That’s no problem. You know. (unintelligible word) like uh, the profit and stuff we are, you know, like up in Lancaster, there are three, four houses we own, stuff like this, you know.
Man 1: Uh-huh.
Man 2: See? (Pause) When I came down to (unintelligible word)
Woman: Maybe I can go write a note. Okay?
Man 2: I came- (Pause) I came down (unintelligible under traffic in back). I didn’t have nothing. I didn’t have a thing.
Man 1: Linda? Here’s his envelope if you want to-
Man 2: Yeah. And uh- Ever since I been with- she been a good luck thing, (unintelligible word under traffic) and, and, and I love her, you know. And uh, everything I got, goes to her, you know.
Man 1: Umm-hmm.
Man 2: Ain’t- ain’t nothing in my name. It’s all hers, you know. But, if- if- if we keep on doing like we doing it right now, and don’t get ourselves on the right side of the fence, we going to lose it.
Man 1: Umm-hmm.
Man 2: And it doesn’t make sense. And we both got to sit down and get it together, and say hey, we got to do it this way or this way or, you know- And if we don’t, (unintelligible under traffic) I- We got- she got kids, you know. (unintelligible phrase) And uh, they gonna need these things. We might not. (Pause) You know. But we’re- if we don’t settle down and stop- and she been trying for the longer. It’s not her fault. (Pause) It’s not her fault (unintelligible word) nothing. It’s my fault. Because I wouldn’t stop producing that jive, that she was jealous. (Pause) You understand what I’m saying?
Man 1: Uh-huh.
Man 2: I’m not putting nothing on her. She’s a good woman. (Pause) She’s a beautiful woman.
Man 1: She is. She is.
Man 2: She is. She’s a beautiful woman.
Man 1: I think you’ve been very fortunate.
Man 2: Hey, baby, I- uh, hey, do you know something? She is my right hand of God. If God had asked for this arm right now for her, I would give it to him. (Pause) And- and I mean that.
Man 1: Uh-huh.
Man 2: She- She’s- she’s beautiful. (Pause) And if I lose her, everything I got is gone.
Man 1: Um-hmm.
(Pause)
Man 2: It’s the simple truth. All because-
Man 1: Well, you’re not married to her, so you really wouldn’t be losing her, I mean-
(unintelligible as two talk over each other)
Man 1: I say, you aren’t- you know, you- you said, you know, like, you aren’t legally, you know-
Man 2: No, we’re not legally married-
Man 1: Yeah-
Man 2: -and I said we been to- we been staying under the same roof the last five years.
Man 1: Yeah. Right.
Man 2: You understand?
Man 1: Yeah, I understand.
Man 2: Now, I had told her- I said, it’s okay (unintelligible phrase under traffic). Give me a month to get the money together, and we get the marriage and thing sit- sit- straightened up, you know, and then we get this thing legalized.
Man 1: You said you’re telling her this weekend?
Man 2: Huh?
Man 1: You- You’re telling her this uh, today?
Man 2: Yeah, well, I’ve been talking to her today, you know about it.
Man 1: Uh-huh.
Man 2: So she says, well, she says uh, it sounds good, but whatever brought us, say, I’ll do it. You know, this is the same thing she keep telling me, you know.
Man 1: Yeah.
Man 2: And so- (Pause)
Man 1: Well, I want you to understand, you know, like, I’ve talked with her and- knowing myself, and there’ve been- there’ve been many sisters that had (unintelligible word) spoken with her, or we’ve passed, you know, week, couple of weeks, I mean, even before then, really, before- before this has come up, and uh, you know, she- she’s pretty, you know, like you say, she’s a pretty capable woman. Very capable, as a matter of fact. And a- a lot of- a lot of the thoughts and decisions that she’s been making have come from her own head. I mean, you know, like, all of us- all of us, you know, are talking about, you know, Pastor Jones, ’cause Pastor Jones has been, you know, a source of strength for all of-
Man 2: (unintelligible interruption) Can I ask you a question? I ain’t sayin’ cuttin’ you off.
Man 1: Oh, okay.
Man 2: I want to ask you a question.
Man 1: You ought to forget it. (Laughs)
Man 2: (unintelligible sentence)
Man 1: (Stumbles over words) I see your question. Now what is it? What- what’d you want to ask?
Man 2: Do you think (Pause) that (pause) there’s a chance for me and my wife going back together?
Man 3: I think she- she outlined (unintelligible phrase), and that was, you gotta confess and uh, you know, (unintelligible under traffic)
(unintelligible exchanges)
Man 2: (unintelligible intro) if I can do that, (unintelligible under traffic)
(unintelligible exchanges)
Man 3: She can tell you- If she can tell you- she can tell you, if he says something, he means it. You know. She can tell you that.
Man 1: Well, see, uh, over the phone, though, when we talked on the phone a little bit ago, she- she said, you know, (unintelligible word), she wanted to- she wanted to see deeds and actions.
Man 2: Right.
Man 1: And then- and then (unintelligible under interruption)
Man 2: She wanted to see me do these things.
Man 1: Right. That’s right. That’s what she meant by prove yourself. (unintelligible under interruption)
Man 2: Right. She wanted me to do these things. And so she said, give up- yeah, so, uh, I mean uh, (Pause) (unintelligible under traffic). I don’t- I- I- I- I don’t know whether to try it. (Pause) And I can’t- I can’t do too much for myself right now. I’m on disability, I uh, got one of my bones messed up, leg messed up, back messed up, ear. (Pause) But right now, see, if uh- if she leaves now, see, I can’t keep you (unintelligible word). I can’t keep you- I can’t keep (unintelligible phrase)
Man 1: Image of you- image of you returning to (unintelligible word)
Man 2: (unintelligible)
Man 1: (unintelligible intro) your father’s place?
Man 2: Yeah, well, I have to go- somebody somehow have to take care of me, you know.
Man 1: Uh-huh.
(unintelligible exchanges)
Man 2: I’m talking about three houses-
Man 3: Cash money.
Man 2: Oh. 80, 60, (Pause)-
(unintelligible exchanges for several moments as traffic roars by)
Man 3: Well, brother, like I say, I- I think it’s- it’s been what, you know, been laid on you.
(unintelligible exchanges)
Man 4: I was just (unintelligible phrase), that- that weekend before, we was sitting right here, we was sitting right here, (unintelligible under traffic)
(unintelligible exchanges)
Man 2: I’m ashamed of my own self. (Pause)
(unintelligible exchanges)
Man 2: Well, I didn’t step out here to uh, give you uh, I mean, put it on y’all’s shoulders, that just- (Pause) (unintelligible)
Man: And that’s all you’re going to talk about these last days, day and a half.
Man 2: Oh, no, we talked, we go out, you know. (unintelligible phrase) We talked about us. She wants to. She wants to, but she’s scared.
Man 1: Scared of what?
Man 2: She’s scared that I’m not going to do what I said I was going to do. Some- some- somehow or another. Somebody told somebody I was going to hurt her, and I ain’t (unintelligible word) told nobody (unintelligible under traffic)
Man 3: Have you ever?
Man 2: No, sir.
Man 3: Never hit her?
Man 2: I slapped her. (unintelligible under traffic) But somebody told her a whole lot of lies, and something about I was to had a gun over there in the car. (unintelligible sentence) Somebody told her- told her I had a gun settin’ over there in the car. Hep- hey, hey, man, I’m settin’ on Go- on, on God’s truth. (unintelligible name; could be Archie) called and told- somebody, somebody called and told (unintelligible word). Some- Somebody down here. See, I was sittin’ over in the lot, with the gun, and the only thing I ask, I said, I don’t have a key to get in.
Man 1: (unintelligible response)
Man 2: And I didn’t have a key to get in. And I still don’t have a key.
Man 1: But, Dick, not that you- not that you had one that day, but I mean, you’ve dealt with guns before, and- and I mean- and have ’em in your home.
Man 2: But they at my house.
Man 1: Yeah, right, so I mean, but-
Man 2: I- I- I don’t bring ’em out here.
Man 1: Yeah, but from judging- you know, like, judging from, you know, the mood that you were in then-
Man 2: No. No, no. Nobody- No mood. No, no, (unintelligible phrase) judge me that me having a gun.
Man 1: Uh-huh.
Man 2: ‘Cause I don’t carry no gun. Onliest time you see me pick up (unintelligible word)- pick up a gun, I got a batch of money going to the bank, uh, somebody’s out there running around my house doing something he ain’t got no business.
Man 1: Uh-huh.
Man 2: (unintelligible response)
Woman: (unintelligible intro) Um, I wasn’t able to talk to Jim (unintelligible under traffic), I was talking with some of the secretaries, and they said, (unintelligible under traffic) like that to make their decision, and that would be, you know, her decision to make.
Man 2: Yeah. I- I’m just going by what you told me.
Woman: Well, why don’t you tell her? ‘Cause this comes, you know, from the staff.
Man 2: Well, now, she ain’t gone believe me. Somebody else-
Woman: Well, uh, uh, I can tell her.
Man 2: Yeah.
Woman: What’s her last name?
Man 2: Alta S- (unintelligible) Alta.
Woman: What’s her name??
Man 2: Alta Sellers.
Woman: Altus?
Man 2: Alta. A-L-T-A.
Woman: Ellis?
Man 1: Sellers.
Man 2: Sellers. S-e-l-l-e-r-s.
Woman: Alta Sellers.
Man 2: But you got my (unintelligible word)
Woman: Oh. I put it down, ’cause I was going to show it to Jim.
Man 2: Well, you’ve got to give it back to me.
Woman: Yeah, well, I’ll have to get it.
Man 2: Her name is Alta Sellers.
Woman: Alta Sellers. (Pause)
Man 3: I was going to ask you, you know what- you know what- what do you think about (unintelligible under traffic)
Man 2: I think- Hey, man. You want me to tell you what I think about it? I went to court the other day.
(unintelligible exchanges)
Man 2: I had this little thing, right here.
Woman: What’d you go to court for?
Man 2: It was uh- old (unintelligible name) had filed a violation on me, but they kicked it out.
(unintelligible exchanges)
Man 2: No, no, no, no.
(unintelligible exchanges)
Man 2: (unintelligible) -better not be. It shoulda been on trial. I went to court the other day, man, and uh- (Pause) I don’t know what made me do it, you know, I thought about what Alta said, you know.
Man 3: 439-48-
Man 2: And uh, I checked it.
Man 3: 4949, Social Security number. U.S. Steel Corporation employee.
Man 2: And I put it, you know, back into the (unintelligible word), stuffed it in the pipe like this, you know, and I (unintelligible phrase)
Another man: Take care of that (unintelligible word)
Man 2: And the whole time I was talking to you there, you said that- judge said two words.
(unintelligible exchanges)
Man: Tom, where you going?
Man 2: Inside.
(Tape edit)
Man 2: But now do you- do you know what I think about?
(unintelligible exchanges)
(Tape edit)
Woman: Oh, well, he’s inside.
Man: Sure. Sure.
Woman 2: What do you got there>
Woman: You want to come with me and get in the car? The back end?
Man 2: Okay.
Woman: And then wait a minute-
(unintelligible exchanges)
(Tape edit)
(mike moved; silence; distant conversation)
Part 6:
Man: Now let’s just see if this microphone works for regular dictation purposes. I started off with this machine at about position 220, and we’ll just see what kind of a response I get from this uh, dictation on this microphone, which seems available to turn it off and turn it on without too much trouble.
(Tape edit; silence)
End of tape.
Tape originally posted February 2005