Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.
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Jones: –fantastic. (tape edit)
Part 1:
Marceline: –Right now, uh, we’ve had a lot of uh, visitors from different places like the Russian embassy and the State Department and, you know, the Minister of Foreign Affairs [Fred Wills].
Man: Certainly. Certainly.
Marceline: –and so forth, delegations from uh, Cuba to see uh, what’s being built. Jim, of course, would like to be back here, but he certainly is making the best of his time to try to help uh, a struggling nation, and to build a good image of the US abroad. So–
Man: Yeah, that’s commendable, but then that’s– that– that’s somewhat uh, consistent with his philosophy of life. That is.
Marceline: Right. That’s very true. I’ve been married to him 28 years, and I’ve– I’ve never known him to think of anything but the oppressed, you know, and uh–
Man: Certainly.
Marceline: –trying to build– make– make a better world for everybody. But anyway, I just– I– He wanted me to call and uh, just give his very deepest regards to you and appreciation.
Man: That’s– Is– Is– Is there a mailing address that I can mail. like, write to Johnny [Moss Brown Jones] or Lee [Ingram] a letter down there?
Marceline: Yes. It’s Post Office Box 893–
Man: 893.
Marceline: Georgetown–
Man: That’s one word?
Marceline: Yes.
Man: Georgetown.
Marceline: Guyana. G-U-Y-A-N-A.
Man: Um-hmm [Yes].
Marceline: South America. (Pause) And uh, (clears throat) Lee is very active in our school down there, and Johnny is– ‘course, he’s doing a lot of public relations work in the country and uh, doing a lot of directing of the whole project.
Man: Certainly.
Marceline: Uh, he’s a very able person.
Man: Umm-hmm.
Marceline: So (laughs) I know they’d love to hear from you.
Man: That’s be great, ‘cause we’ve– we’ve really missed (stumbles over words)– We had a– almost a daily – uh, not daily – a weekly breakfast, and either Johnny or Lee were there, and– and [from] time to time, go what’s happened, and I– I– that’s what I was going to tell you, and I– I– I– I trailed off. I did stop by the uh, Temple there and I spoke to a gentleman whose name, as I stated, I couldn’t remember, and I stated well, I gave him the background of rapport and the uh, relationship we had between myself and Art Tappe in our office had with Johnny and Lee and Mike [likely Mike Prokes], and we were just wondering what had happened, had uh, something happened that maybe or some dissatisfaction with uh, the– the parts of the office or what have you and– and– and uh (stumbles over words), they said, no, no, there wasn’t.
Marceline: No.
Man: That it’d just been a change, and people were in different positions and what have you, and some people probably weren’t even aware that there was a rapport or established contact with the police department through the community relations unit.
Marceline: Yeah, this– this is true, I think, you know, so much has happened to us uh, within the last year, and – and it’s been a difficult year, as– as you well know.
Man: Certainly. Yes.
Marceline: And uh, we’ve had to do some shifting and so forth, but uh, we’ll uh– well, when is– when is the breakfast? Do you–
Man: Well, they’re usually Wednesdays.
Marceline: Wednesdays.
Man: Right.
Marceline: What– what time.
Man: Uh, before– we try to have ‘em at 8 o’clock.
Marceline: 8 o’clock? And where?
Man: Yes, at– at the– the Knight– Knight’s uh, Café. And do you know, if there’s going to be an individual there or (stumbles over words) who’s going to be coming, ‘cause they can contact me and uh, I can talk to ‘em. Because I had some numbers, uh, phone numbers here which Johnny had given me to contact him– him or uh, someone at– at the Temple, like it was 9– I think it was 922-6418.
Marceline: Yes.
Man: That was the number, and then–
Marceline: Yes, that’s the number that you can– but we will uh, uh– Let’s see. I think Hue Fortson will be the one, and my–
Man: Who is that? Who is that now again?
Marceline: Hue Fortson.
Man: Fortsom.
Marceline: Uh-huh. He’s been having the flu, but he’s much better today. And are you having a breakfast tomorrow?
Man: Tomor– Yes, uh, as far as I know, we al– usually have them.
Marceline: Suppose how I see how he is today, and I’ll have him give you a call.
Man: Please do.
Marceline: Okay?
Man: Okay.
Marceline: All right.
Man: Thank you, Mrs. Jones.
Marceline: Uh-huh, and thank you so much.
Man: Okay, then.
Marceline: Okay. Bye.
Man: Bye.
Part 2:
Phone dialed. Busy signal. Dial tone. Phone dialed. Rings.
Dellums aide: Congressman [Ron] Dellums’ office.
Marceline: Is Mr. Dellums in?
Aide: Mr. Dellums?
Marceline: Yes.
Aide: No, he’s not. He’s in Washington.
Marceline: Oh, he is. Uh, this is Marceline Jones. I’m the wife of Jim Jones from Peoples Temple. I– It’s– I’m going to ble– be in that area next week. Would it be possible for me to make an appointment to see him next Tuesday in Washington through you?
Aide: No, you’d have to do it through our Washington office.
Marceline: Could you give us that number?
Aide: Sure. It’s area code 202.
Marceline: 202.
Aide: 225-
Marceline: 225-
Aide: 2661.
Marceline: 2661. All right. Thank you so much.
Aide: Sure. Bye-bye.
Marceline: Bye.
Lengthy pause, phone call in background, very faint
Part 3:
Dial tone. Phone dialed. Rings numerous times without answer. Dial tone. Disconnected silence. Dial tone. Phone dialed. Rings.
Mrs. Johnson: Hello?
Marceline: Hello, is Joan Brann in?
Mrs. Johnson: Pardon?
Marceline: Is Joan Brann in?
Mrs. Johnson: No, this is Mrs. Johnson.
Marceline: This is the wrong number, then?
Mrs. Johnson: Well, this is uh, 878-4478.
Marceline: And Joan Brann does not live there?
Mrs. Johnson: I don’t know. What’s the last name?
Marceline: Brann. B-R-A-N-N.
Mrs. Johnson: B-R-A-N-T, Brant?
Marceline: No, Brann. B-R-A-N-N.
Mrs. Johnson: No, I don’t– I wouldn’t know, I’m sure. This is a retirement home.
Marceline: Oh– Oh. All right. Thank you very much.
Disconnects.
Part 4:
Peoples Temple Receptionist: Hello. May I help you?
Socorro Robbins: Yes. This Marceline Jones?
Temple Receptionist: I’ll get her. Just a second. Who’s calling, please?
Robbins: Uh– Mr. Gnaizda’s secretary.
Temple Receptionist: Just a second.
Placed on hold.
Marceline: Hello.
Robbins: Hi. Marceline Jones?
Marceline: Yes.
Robbins: Yes, this is uh, Socorro Robbins, Bob Gnaizda’s secretary, and I gave him the message, and he– he’d love to call you Wednesday. Um–
Marceline: That’ll be fine.
Robbins: Okay, because his mother’s in town and (unintelligible under Marceline)
Marceline: Okay.
Robbins: He’s been taking her around so he won’t be in–
Marceline: All right.
Robbins: –today or tonight, but he did get the message, and he said he’d love to speak with you, and he’ll call you on Wednesday.
Marceline: Very good.
Robbins: Okay.
Marceline: Thank you very much.
Robbins: Bye-bye.
Marceline: Bye.
Part 5:
Dial tone. Phone dialed. Rings.
Receptionist: Good afternoon. (unintelligible name)
Marceline: Uh, is Robert Winslow in?
Receptionist: Just a second.
(Placed on hold)
Winslow secretary: Mr. Winslow’s office.
Marceline: Is Mr. Winslow in?
Winslow secretary: May I ask who’s calling?
Marceline: This is Marceline Jones, Jim Jones’ wife.
Winslow secretary: Can you hold on a moment?
Marceline: Yes.
Winslow secretary: Thank you.
(Placed on hold)
Robert Winslow: Hello.
Marceline: Hello, Bob?
Winslow: Hi.
Marceline: Hi, this is Marcy.
Winslow: How are you?
Marceline: Well, I’m doing fine. Uh, I’ve been gone for about a month and when– as soon as I got back, Jim wanted me to call you–
Winslow: Been down in Guyana?
Marceline: Yeah.
Winslow: Yeah.
Marceline: And uh, things are going so well there, but he wanted me to thank you for everything that you’ve done, and for your support and give you his best regards.
Winslow: He doesn’t have to do that.
Marceline: Well, I know, but he wants to. He’s deeply appreciative. It’s been a rough year, you know.
Winslow: Yeah.
Marceline: But uh, things are really going well down there uh, we’re– He’s built quite a community, uh, and the State Department has been there and the For– Minister of Foreign Affairs, and they’ve– they’re really impressed with what we’ve done in the way of health care and education and so forth.
Winslow: Umm-hmm. Is the flak headed– letting up any up in San Francisco?
Marceline: Well uh, we’re– The main worry now is the Tim Stoen situation, you know, with uh, uh, John [Victor Stoen]. Uh, were you able to make any contact with uh, Freitas [Joseph Freitas, District Attorney of San Francisco] or anything, or have you gotten–
Winslow: I wrote a letter to him but I haven’t uh–
Marceline: Yeah–
Winslow: I– I don’t know him, so I wouldn’t– wouldn’t really expect a response, but–
Marceline: But uh, generally things are a little better here and things are really great in Guyana, so things are looking up. And Jim wanted me to call you and give my best uh, to you. How are you doing?
Winslow: Oh, life has been hectic. We’ve been uh, suing the savings and loan industry, it’s a–
Marceline: Oh, my–
Winslow: –over some of their outrageous uh, lending practices.
Marceline: Yes.
Winslow: And we just settled a big case with Home Savings, and we– now I’m in trial right now with Coast Federal Savings.
Marceline: Well, just take care of yourself. You know, your health is important too. Are you– are you well physically?
Winslow: Oh, yeah, fine. In good shape.
Marceline: And how’s the family?
Winslow: Everybody’s fine. Betty’s up in Mendocino County, uh, she had an aunt who passed away uh, yesterday morning.
Marceline: Oh. I’m sorry.
Winslow: So she went up there yesterday.
Marceline: But she’s doing well, and the children are doing well.
Winslow: But she’s fine. Yeah, right.
Marceline: That’s fine. Well, you uh, give her my best, and I–
Winslow: I certainly will.
Marceline: And Jim will never forget, you know, a friend, and–
Winslow: Are you on your way back soon, or–?
Marceline: I– Well, I don’t know just when, but I hope to get back there because naturally I miss our family and children, but– Uh, if you ever need a place to get away to, to rest, why, you know–
Winslow: Sounds like– Sounds like it might be interesting.
Marceline: You’re– You’re very welcome, you know. Anytime.
Winslow: Well, we– we might just do that.
Marceline: Okay. All right. And uh, just– I– I just– we both wish you the very, very best, and thanks again.
Winslow: Well, I hope everything works out for you and that things uh, finally calm down up– up in– up in San Francisco.
Marceline: Well, it’s, uh–
Winslow: What are– What are you concerned with, uh– is– is anything specific uh, happening now or–?
Marceline: No, no, not really. You know–
Winslow: It’s just a fear that there might be–
Marceline: Yeah. You know, after you’ve been in the limelight– (laughs) limelight, and I used that word – you know, you get kind of battle worn and so forth. No.
Winslow: Is– Is Tim in San Francisco now?
Marceline: Uh– I– We haven’t seen him, we don’t know whether he is. We– He’s supposed to be here, but– but–
Winslow: But the problem in connection with the child custody you’re going on down in Guyana–
Marceline: Right, right, yes. I mean, he was there, he went there, and you know, I– we don’t know whether he’ll be back (voice trails off) So– Well, anyway, uh, these things are difficult to go through, but they make you strong, you know.
Winslow: Yeah, if they don’t kill you in the process. (laugh)
Marceline: That’s right. That’s right, (laugh) you just have to be willing to die for what you believe in, I guess.
Winslow: Yeah, right.
Marceline: (laugh) And I guess there’s not much point in living uh, if you’re not willing to–
Winslow: No, what the hell. That makes life interesting.
Marceline: That’s right. That’s right.
Winslow: Okay.
Marceline: Thank you so much.
Winslow: Okay.
Marceline: You take care now.
Winslow: You bet.
Marceline: Okay.
Winslow: Bye-bye.
Marceline: Bye.
Part 6:
Dial tone. Phone dialed. Rings.
Receptionist: Law offices.
Marceline: Is uh, Mr. [Dennis] Roberts in?
Receptionist: Mr. Roberts stepped out. Who’s calling, please?
Marceline: This is Marceline Jones from Peoples Temple. Uh, would you just leave a message for him to call me at–
Receptionist: Marceline?
Marceline: Jones.
Receptionist: Jones. How do you spell Marceline?
Marceline: M-a-r-c-e-l-i-n-e. It’s Jim Jones’ wife.
Receptionist: Okay.
Marceline: Uh, it’s 922-9597.
Receptionist: 922?
Marceline: Um-hmm.
Receptionist: 9597.
Marceline: Yes.
Receptionist: (Sighs) Okay. 922-9597, and he’ll call you right a– right back.
Marceline: Thank you very much.
Receptionist: You’re very welcome. Bye-bye.
Part 7:
Dial tone. Phone dialed. Rings.
Receptionist: Good afternoon. (unintelligible name)
Marceline: Uh, is Mr. Jenkins in?
Receptionist: No, he isn’t. I’m expecting (unintelligible)
Marceline: Yes, would you ask– This is uh, Marceline Jones, uh, Jim Jones’ wife, and would you ask him to call me at 922-9597?
Receptionist: 9597?
Marceline: Mmm-hmm.
Receptionist: Okay. Mrs. Jones.
Marceline: Yes.
Receptionist: Okay.
Marceline: Thank you.
Part 8:
Phone rings.
Burton Receptionist: John Burton’s office.
Marceline: Hello, this is uh, Marceline Jones, uh, from Peoples Temple, and Dr. [Carlton] Goodlett had called me this morning and said that uh, Mr. Burton was– might be able to see us this Saturday, and I wanted to leave my number here for him to call.
Receptionist: Oh, hold on a second.
(Placed on hold) (Pause of several moments)
Burton Aide: Hello.
Marceline: Hello?
Aide: Yes.
Marceline: This is Marceline Jones, and Dr. Goodlett has said I should leave my number with you for you to call–
Aide: It would be this weekend or the next weekend? It is not definite this weekend. Did Dr. Goodlett tell you that?
Marceline: Yes, he did tell me that. Uh–
Aide: Okay. What is the number?
Marceline: It’s 922-9597. Uh– Is Mr. Burton going to be in Washington during the week?
Aide: Yeah, he’ll be there during the week, yeah.
Marceline: Okay. So maybe uh–
Aide: He’s only coming in late Friday and leaving Saturday night.
Marceline: Yes. So– All right. Thank you. Is there– I– We’re thinking maybe of being in Washington during the week, so maybe we could see him there Tuesday. Uh–
Aide: Or then– Should I tell him that, if you– if you can’t make it this week, you will see him–
Marceline: Tuesday.
Aide: Tuesday.
Marceline: Yes. We’ll make a trip there to see him.
Aide: All right. Who is uh– How many are going?
Marceline: There’ll be four of us.
Aide: And if you can’t– Let me put this down. (Pause) (Talks to self under breath) Mrs. Jones and three people. Will be in DC Tuesday?
Marceline: Yes. We’ll make a trip–
Aide: About what time?
Marceline: Well, when– It would be in the morning, but when it’s convenient for him.
Aide: All right, I’ll put sometime in AM. Okay.
Marceline: All right.
Aide: Okay.
Marceline: Thank you very much for your help.
Aide: You’re very welcome. Bye-bye.
Marceline: Bye.
Part 9:
Dial tone. Phone dialed. Rings numerous times without answer. Dial tone. Phone dialed. Rings.
Helton: Hello?
Marceline: Hello, is this Mr. Helton?
Helton: Yes.
Marceline: Uh, this is Marceline Jones, Jim Jones’ wife from People Temple.
Helton: Uh-huh.
Marceline: And I’ve been gone for about a month, and my husband uh, wanted me as soon as I got back to call you and thank you so much, you and your wife, for all the support and help you’ve given (unintelligible)
Helton: Uh, we feel like it’s a worthy cause. You’re– You’re really great.
Marceline: Well, it’s greatly appreciated. Well, thank you so much, and he is deeply appreciated– deeply appreciative of all the things you’ve done. You know, there aren’t too many people that stand in difficult times (faint, unintelligible) and uh, we are– he is doing very well, and things are really moving in Guyana. We’ve got quite a project down there, quite a health system and school system and that government, and the people from, you know, the uh, State Department down there (unintelligible) the State Department is very impressed with us, but uh, if it hadn’t been for people like you that, you know, gave encouragement, it would’ve been a lot harder, and he wanted– he wanted me to call to thank you.
Helton: I appreciate it.
Marceline: So, pass the word on to your wife, please.
Helton: Okay. Did the Social Security checks start rolling again?
Marceline: Yes, yes.
Helton: Oh, that’s good.
Marceline: Everything is– We got an official apology, so thank you for that– (laughs) for helping us with that. So things are– things are beginning to look up.
Helton: Oh, that’s wonderful.
Marceline: Okay. And thank you so much, Mr. Helton.
Helton: Okay.
Marceline: Okay. Bye.
Helton: Bye.
Part 10:
Dial tone. Phone dialed. Rings.
Receptionist: Good afternoon. Cherry Hill (Unintelligible word).
Marceline: Is uh, uh, Enola Maxwell in?
Receptionist: One moment, please.
Marceline: Thank you.
(Placed on hold)
Enola Maxwell: Hello?
Marceline: Enola?
Maxwell: Yes.
Marceline: This is Marceline Jones from Peoples Temple, and–
Maxwell: How are you?
Marceline: I’m doing very well, and I just got back, and Jim again wanted me to call and give you his love and support and appreciation for everything you’ve done.
Maxwell: Oh, gosh, I haven’t done anything. I sure do miss him, though.
Marceline: Well, uh, he misses being here with all you beautiful people, you know, that believe in the same things that he– He’s getting a lot done down there, and uh–
Maxwell: Oh, I can imagine.
Marceline: Uh– It’s really an impressive place. I– you know, I am so impressed when I go (small laugh), uh, with what’s happening in the area of health and education, and the uh, government officials there are very well impressed, and uh– you know, people from the State Department and everybody uh, are impressed with what’s happening. It’s really worldwide recognition of what’s happening in there.
Maxwell: Yeah.
Marceline: So I was telling him that you by chance ran into someone in China that’d been there, a minister from New York–
Maxwell: Uh-huh.
Marceline: Did– do– you don’t– didn’t happen to find out what his name was, did you?
Maxwell: God. I don’t– I have it at home.
Marceline: Yeah, well.
Maxwell: Maybe I can call you and give it to you.
Marceline: Okay. If you could–
Maxwell: (unintelligible beginning under Marceline) –Buffalo, New York
Marceline: –it was be very interesting. I thought– Uh, Jim was just fascinated by that, you know, it’s really a small world.
Maxwell: Uh-huh.
Marceline: Well, I don’t want to hold you any longer, because I know you’re very, very busy, but uh–
Maxwell: Oh, I’m so glad to hear, (unintelligible) the other night, and so were people from (unintelligible name), at the peace– (unintelligible word) reception, uh, of California (faint)
Marceline: Well, uh, just, you know, anything we can ever do to help you, why, just please know we’re still here.
Maxwell: Oh, thank you very much, Mrs. Jones. Yeah. Thank you very much.
Marceline: Okay. Okay.
Maxwell: And thank you very much for calling.
Marceline: Yes.
Maxwell: Good, dear.
Marceline: And thank you.
Maxwell: All right. Goodbye.
Part 11:
Dial tone. Disconnect. Dial tone. Phone dialed. Busy.Dial tone. Phone dialed.
End of side 1
Side 2
Part 12:
Willie: –Uh, I guess my mother’s been over there, I guess close to a year, maybe a little over a year, over in uh, Guyana?
Sandy Bradshaw: Mmm-hmm [Yes].
Willie: Uh, is it possible uh, or probable that uh, she could visit back here for a while?
Bradshaw: I’m sorry, I didn’t– I didn’t hear your question.
Willie: Is it possible or probable that she uh, could visit back here, I mean, can she uh–? One of the reasons I’m concerned, we have difficulty getting mail to uh, her, and apparently she has difficulty getting mail to us (unintelligible) delayed.
Bradshaw: Yeah, there is, because they’re in the interior of the country, and especially this time of year, there was– was about three weeks in a row there that uh, the ship could not leave the Port Kaituma to take the mail into Georgetown to even have it sent back to the U.S. We have found there is a problem with the mails also, because people will get letters that say uh, uh, remember I told you in my last letter, and then the person never got their last letter.
Willie: Yeah, that’s the kind of thing that we have experienced.
Bradshaw: Right. Right. Exactly. And uh, we think that it’s all– We think someone is tampering with our mails, is what we think. Uh, one big package of mail that came back that was mailed all at once from the people there uh, had been opened, wine or a substance that smelled of wine and was the color of wine was poured on the contents of the letters. So we really think that it’s a type of harassment because uh, way– this is the– not the first case or the only case in which we’ve had problems with people getting their mails.
Willie: Uh-huh. Uh, does it– Have you had any uh, people who’ve gone over there say for a– a period of time and then have come back to visit here and then–
Bradshaw: Well, people are free to come and go as they choose. Right now, the project is so new, there is uh, like a core of people that has been there that– that were originally pioneering the project, so to speak, and since that time, people have more or less gone over fairly recently, so uh, they have not– there have not been the people wanting to come back, uh, because they haven’t been there all that long, and they like it so well, they want to stay.
Willie: I see.
Bradshaw: So, uh, it is a– a very, very beautiful place and–
Willie: Yeah, I’m (unintelligible under Bradshaw)
Bradshaw: Your mom is very happy there.
Willie: Yeah, I’ve heard a lot about it, and uh, I’d kinda like to uh, be able to uh, you know, contact her and, you know, on an im– an– an immediate basis and ask if she wants to come back and, of course, it– you know, for a visit, at least, because it’s kind of unusual uh, you know, not to have seen her at Christmas time and–
Bradshaw: Mm-hmm. Oh, I can understand you missing her.
Willie: –not to’ve been able to exchange uh, you know, Christmas uh, wishes and uh, even uh, you know, small gifts, et cetera.
Bradshaw: Mm-hmm.
Willie: And uh, it– there’s just a void there that I think uh, I would like to have filled. At least I would like her to know that uh, if she wants to uh, come back for a short visit, you know, I– I can arrange (unintelligible word), my brother and I can arrange that uh, she do so. But not having, you know, the ability to talk to her, it– it’s difficult. By the time I ask the question, you know, two or three months later she would get the uh, letter and not too much can be accomplished that way.
Bradshaw: Well, some– it depends on that– what the mail is doing. Sometimes we’ve gotten letters back within several weeks, but, as I say, we’ve had that same problem with the mails ourselves, and uh, there is radio communication from uh, the San Francisco office to uh, Jonestown. Uh– The possibility of uh, a phone patch is there. It’s difficult, because a lot of times the band is not on for very long, especially during the winter months. The uh, actual contact time is much less than it is, say, in the summer, when you can talk longer on the air. Uh, in fact, Claire had a– a phone contact with uh, her mom and her children, I think about two weeks ago.
Willie: Uh, she mentioned it to me.
Bradshaw: Yeah, and uh, she talked to her at that time. Uh, that was pretty clear communication, as I recall at that time. Anyway, uh, we could take your number down and– I just can’t guarantee when it will be, because we have no control over the band. (Pause)
Willie: Uh, okay, let me give you my number. However– Well, maybe at that time I could see if she would like to come back for a visit, but somehow, I would like that message conveyed to her.
Bradshaw: Um-hmm. You’re certainly free to ask her, you know, anything you’d want, and it is hard to understand uh, uh, the– you know, someone going that distance and finding a place that they want to stay for a goodly length of time. I can understand your missing her.
Willie: Um-hmm. (Pause)
Bradshaw: What is your number down there?
Willie: Okay, area code 213, and it’s 899-5844.
Bradshaw: Um-hmm. 5844. And what was your first name again?
Willie: Uh, Willie.
Bradshaw: Willie. (Pause) Okay. Uh, I can leave it on the radio with– for the radio operator. When is the– You probably work in the daytime, huh?
Willie: Yes, I’m seldom home. Well, the safest time is, say, between uh, 5 and uh– I’m tempted to say between 5 and 6, because quite a few evenings, I’m away.
Bradshaw: Umm-hmm. Okay, uh–
Willie: Uh, or before uh, seven o’clock in the morning.
Bradshaw: Before seven. Now we don’t get contact that early at this time of the year. Uh, our contact’s sometimes been fading out in the afternoon. It’s– It’s just hard to say when it will be, but we can try. Now there are a number of other people who’ve also requested phone patches. As you can imagine, people down there want to talk to people here, and people here want to talk down there.
Willie: Sure. Surely.
Bradshaw: Uh– But have you– You have been writing her, and has she been answering your letters?
Willie: Well, uh, quite frankly, I kinda gave up on the writing, because I wrote her in August and uh, you know, there’s pretty obvious that she didn’t receive my letter until uh, sometime in December.
Bradshaw: You wrote– Wait a minute. You wrote her in August?
Willie: Yeah, I mailed her a letter in August, and uh–
Bradshaw: She answered you back in–
Willie: Oh, I don’t know exactly when she answered, but uh, I didn’t hear from her until uh, December, and I got the impression that she didn’t get my letter immediately. In fact, I got the impression– In fact, I was pretty well convinced that she’d gotten my letter quite some time after I had mailed it.
Bradshaw: Oh, yeah, I’m sure, it takes– it does take a while to get to the interior. I mean, they– that is in the middle of the jungle. And the only form of communication or uh, travel is either the boat by sea or the plane, and then a Land Rover into the settlement.
Willie: Okay, so in other words, the– the mail goes to Georgetown–
Bradshaw: Right.
Willie: –and then from there it goes to uh, where they are–
Bradshaw: Port Kaituma. Port Kaituma, which is about, hmm, seven or eight miles, maybe ten miles from the actual town of Jonestown. And it would go to Port Kaituma either by the government boat that comes around, uh, or by plane. And then from there it would have to get dispersed into Jonestown. But uh, the project itself is pretty self-contained, so the– that we don’t always make trips into town uh, when the mail does get in as often as it gets in. I don’t even know how often, but I know that that– it’s the– the usual problem is the delay from Georgetown to–
Willie: Yeah, let me give you a– a for-instance. When my grandmother died uh, oh, I guess, the first part of December, in fact, it was the first part of December, uh, the message didn’t get to her soon enough, even if she uh, had desired to come home for the funeral.
Bradshaw: No, no, that’s not true. Uh, I talked to Claire about that, and she mentioned that very thing, so I got back on the radio to find out what the problem was, and they– timewise, and that is not true. She was told, and she was mixed up on the dates and uh, you can ask the children, you know, when you talk to them, or ask her even if she didn’t know about it, because they do tell people. We have radio communication every day here, they do tell– I know personally, they’ve told in other uh, personal crisis in families, they’ve told them immediately–
Willie: I see.
Bradshaw: –because when Claire mentioned that– that that’s what she thought, I understood her worry, and I went right after that, put it on the radio, asking what– what was the problem with the date and the confusion of the date. And that was the answer. She was told, so that she could have come back. Uh, so when you talk to your mom, you can ask her that, or you can talk to any of the kids and ask them if they didn’t know.
Willie: Yeah, I have no reason to doubt what you’re telling me, uh– I guess what I’m really trying to conceive (laughs) is why she didn’t come back.
Bradshaw: Yeah, I understand. It’s– it’s difficult, uh– it’s difficult to– to understand the breaking of tradition. You know, I– I do understand that, uh, but it is– it’s a– it’s a whole other life, it– it’s– it’s a beautiful, beautiful place and it’s just– it’s up to everyone’s personal– If they– if they wish to come back to a funeral, it would be up to them. If they feel that it’s– would just be too painful or not their orientation, then it– that’s up to them too, but she was told. She was told in time to be able to come back, uh– ‘Course, it takes several days to get out of the interior to Georgetown, because they do not have transportation every day. The planes don’t fly every day.
Willie: Okay. Assuming if she had wanted to come back, uh, just based on your experience, how long does it normally take one to uh, get back to the States.
Bradshaw: If she had wanted to come back, uh, it woulda depended on which day of the week, because they only have flights out, (pause) let’s see, two or three times a week. I forget which. That– if that is from the nearest town, which is 40 miles away.
Willie: Surely.
Bradshaw: So, you have to get from Jonestown to Matthews Ridge, which is 40 miles by jungle road to uh, Matthews Ridge, and then the planes go from there, I’m not sure, either two or three times a week, so it woulda depended on what day. And then there’s not always room on the Georgetown flights in, ‘cause they don’t have that many. They don’t go every day either. They’ve cut down on the number of flights going in and out of Guyana since we’ve even uh, had the project, so there aren’t that many. It– it would– It could take three days.
Willie: Okay, so at the moment, my desire is to uh, determine whether she would uh, want to come back for a visit, uh, you know, even if just for a week or so, and uh, I would like to somehow convey that message to her, you know, without going through or taking the uh, chance that the letter might get there three weeks or, you know, that type of interval between uh, my de– request and her answer.
Bradshaw: Of course, it– it– Whether it’s two weeks or three weeks or whatever, your– your request would still be there for her to consider and her answer would still be– she would give you the same answer if it were said to you or if it were written to you. I mean, it would just be a matter of the time factor that’s bothering you?
Willie: Uh, that’s one thing that’s bothering me, and uh, I would just like to really know if she uh, would tell me that she doesn’t want to come back to visit. You know, she has three children here, and one in Texas, and I– knowing her all my life, I can’t conceive her saying I don’t want to come back and visit you for a week.
Bradshaw: ‘Course, I don’t think she’s ever said she didn’t want to come back and visit at any time in the future, did she?
Willie: Uh– No, she has never expressed that, but by the same token, I– I don’t know of any way of uh, requesting it uh, other than talking to you as I am now.
Bradshaw: (Pause) Well, other than writing or– (short laugh) Like I say, I mean, I can– I can try and– and get to them, put on the list of phone patches that– that need to be done, but as I say, we really have even hundreds of people that have been waiting for a phone patch also, and I just can’t guarantee when it would be. If you want to write, and ask her that thing, write and tell her that you– you will– you and your brother will pay for her trip down and back, I would certainly suggest doing that. I will also, you know, give your name and number to the radio operator, and–
Willie: Okay, I–
Bradshaw: But I– I just couldn’t tell you when it would be or how soon or–
Willie: Yeah, all that you do, I certainly uh– we will certainly appreciate it. Approximately how many people uh, are over there from– you know, in my mother’s uh, situation?
Bradshaw: In your mother’s situation?
Willie: Well, maybe situation’s the wrong word. How many people are over there from, let’s say uh, from the churches here?
Bradshaw: Well, there are about uh, a thousand people in Jonestown right now.
Willie: Um-hmm. (Pause)
Bradshaw: But from all walks of life, I mean, all different– some– sometimes whole families go, sometimes uh, just the grown children, and sometimes people wish to go down there as a retirement center. It’s– It’s [a] beautiful place for seniors to retire.
Willie: Surely.
Bradshaw: So it– I mean, it’s just from all– all backgrounds and all different situations, so I– I’m not really sure what your mother’s situation is, other than she has children. Uh– There will be of course possibilities in the– in the future that you’ll– you could go down and visit. They’re working on uh, guest housing and guest cottages, but naturally, they’ve gotta get the housing for the– the uh, expanded town there at the moment.
Willie: (unintelligible)
Bradshaw: Yeah, but there certainly will be time in the future when– if you’re in that neck of the woods, you definitely would be very welcome to stay down there.
Willie: Surely.
Bradshaw: But I understand your concern, and I will pass it on, but I just can’t guarantee any time.
Willie: Surely. Okay.
Bradshaw: So, I’d do both. I’d write, and I’ll put this up with the radio operator, and we can– we can see what we can do.
Willie: Okay, Sandy. I appreciate it very much.
Bradshaw: Okay, and thank you for calling, and– Have you seen the slides of the project?
Willie: No, I haven’t.
Bradshaw: You might want to uh, do that sometime. Many times, it– it’s hard to describe the– the situation and the beauty of it there, and sometimes slides can do it much easier, so–
Willie: That’s true.
Bradshaw: –that might be a possibility, future time.
Willie: Okay.
Bradshaw: It might relieve your mind somewhat.
Willie: Right.
Bradshaw: (Laughs)
Willie: (Laughs) Thank you very much, and anything you can do, I’d appreciate it.
Bradshaw: Okay. Okay, sure.
Willie: Mm-hmm. Bye.
Bradshaw: Good-bye.
Part 13:
Man: (unintelligible word) You know, in other words–
Marceline: Uh, I know. Uh, I know what you’re saying, only it’s such a painful thing, and– and Jim uh– this child [John Victor Stoen]– she [Grace Stoen] walked off and left him, you know, with us about two years ago, and it– it will be a devastating thing for the child. He’s–
Man: Yeah, I can see that. Well, then you’d have to go in and ask to have the child uh, transferred, you know, the custody of the child transferred. But then that’s always destructive too. I have found out with people – adopted people, you know – after they– a while, they grow up, and then they begin to worry about, what was my mother like, and then they start searching around and chase around. I know a– a lot of them, and they’ll find some woman, what, she– she’d been a prostitute. Still, uh, well, she was my mother, you know, and the unfor– misfortune, and they– they get sore at the people who adopted them. Like– You know, human beings are pretty complex mechanisms.
Marceline: Well, I know this is true. Uh, of course, we’ve had experience in adoption too, and when the time comes– Right now the child adamantly – of course, he’s a very small little boy, but he’s very bright and uh, an enlightened child – says he doesn’t want to leave where he is, and uh–
Man: How– how old is he now?
Marceline: He’s six years old.
Man: Yeah.
Marceline: Uh, we have had experience with other adopted children. As a matter of fact, I took our black son [Jim Jones Jr.] back to Indiana to trace his roots, because he was interested in it, and I believe that when that times comes, we should allow it, and I’m sure Jim will. But, it– you know, it’s an emotional thing with him, and I– I– We do appreciate your– your professional advice on it, and it certainly will be passed on.
Man: Yeah, the thing is, (stumbles over words) it’s all right, uh, what you do, so long as you know what the situation, the legal situation is. ‘Course, Charley Garry would tell the same thing.
Marceline: Yes. Yes. Well, thank you. Gee, it’s so–
Man: How is Jim? How is he making out down there?
Marceline: He’s doing very, very well. And of course, the project is just blossoming.
Man: Well, I was talking to Charley Garry, I met him the other night, and he said it was wonderful down there. In other words, he said about what he said in that uh, letter he wrote.
Marceline: Yes, and uh, he’s having uh– you know, we’re having a lot of visitors into the project, and some people from the Russian Embassy went in to see what we’re doing in the way of building the community, and uh–
Man: Very good. (Laughs)
Marceline: The State Department also from the US uh, went down to see what was happening, and uh–
Man: I’ll be darned. That’s dangerous.
Marceline: –from Washington, DC, so–
Man: (stumbles over words) In other words, uh, J– Jim will stay down there, I support, indefinitely now, huh?
Marceline: Well, there’s no– (sighs) you know, no way of knowing. He’d– He’d like to come back and uh, also–
Man: But then you notice another thing, Marceline. Remember, I suggested, don’t file any suits, don’t write any letters, don’t– you know, it uh– then it dies out. Whereas if you uh, do– take some action, then the papers grab onto that as another source of news to bandy it about and pillory the man.
Marceline: Yes. Yes. I– I know– I know what you’re saying, so–
Man: Yes.
Marceline: Well, we thank you so much (unintelligible under man)
Man: Well, you’re more than welcome, I’m–
Marceline: It’s good to talk to you, and uh, it’s–
Man: I’m glad it helped. And you can–
Marceline: –been quite a battle this last year, really, it’s been something.
Man: Well, that’s life.
Marceline: Oh. I know.
Man: Sure.
Marceline: I know it well.
Man: As soon as you don’t have any battles, well, you’re about finished.
Marceline: That’s right. (Laughs) That’s so right.
Man: In fact, that’s one of the things I say about all the adulation I’ve been getting since I become 80, I say, what makes me so goddamn mad is it means they don’t think I’m dangerous anymore.
Marceline: (Laughs)
Man: Sure.
Marceline: Well, you certainly deserve the adulation, though.
Man: Oh, thank you.
Marceline: You, uh– Jim certainly, you know, holds you in highest regard and respect.
Man: Well, it’s mutual.
Marceline: And uh, it’s– I appreciate so much–
Man: Well, anytime now, give me a ring that you need some– you need a word, and I’ll come out and talk to you.
Marceline: Good. Thank you.
Man: All right, dear. Bye.
Marceline: Thank you so much. Bye.
Part 14:
Receptionist: Yes, it is. Hold on just a minute.
Marceline: Thank you.
(Placed on hold)
Cecil Williams: Hello.
Marceline: Hello, Cecil?
Williams: Yeah.
Marceline: This is Marceline Jones (unintelligible word under Williams)
Williams: Yeah, Marceline.
Marceline: I’ve been gone for about a month and uh, Jim wanted me to call and see how things are going with you. You know, when I talked to you before, uh, you said that there’d been some– (pause) uh, Phil Tracy had been sort of breathing down your neck, and Jim was really concerned, and–
Williams: Yeah, well, I think he undoubtedly stopped. Uh–
Marceline: That’s good. (laughs)
Williams: (Laughs) From what uh, several reporters told me–
Marceline: That’s– that’s great–
Williams: That they talked to him, and uh, undoubtedly he stopped at this point, so I– I– at least I haven’t heard anything else, and then I had a reporter to say to me not too long ago that uh– that uh, you know, he talked to him, and that was just about it. Yeah.
Marceline: Well, I’m glad of that. And everything else is going all right for you.
Williams: Very well. Very well.
Marceline: Very good.
Williams: How are– How are things going with Jim?
Marceline: Well, Jim is uh, doing great, really. Uh, the project down there is uh, flourishing. And I hope sometime you can take some time to go down and see what’s happening there.
Williams: I hope so too. I’m working so hard on this– you know, this book and record right now. And it’s really kinda got us all uh, going around here, (stumbles over words) you know, ‘cause I only come in on two– two days a week now in the office, on Tuesdays and Thursdays, because uh, the– the other days I’m working on this bo– uh, these things, you know.
Marceline: Yes. Well, don’t–
Williams: But anyway, uh– I’m very concerned about Jim. I’m very proud that things are working out, uh– I knew– I know he’s gonna pull it off, wherever he goes, you know.
Marceline: Well, he’s a very dedicated and uh– you know, dedicated to uh, trying to build a better world, and uh, he– Right now, what he’s doing, you know, he’d like very much to be here, but he’s making the best of being there, and he’s built a beautiful community, the uh, Russian embassy had been down to see what they’ve done there, and the State Department from uh, our country, and the Minister of Foreign Affairs, and they’re very, very happy. There– there was also a delegation from Cuba that went down to see what was happening there.
Williams: Oh, really. My God.
Marceline: So, uh, it’s amazing what you can do if you, you know, love truth and are willing to work and clear the jungle, and we have quite a medical uh, department and school with all kinds of things happening.
Williams: That’s beautiful. That’s beautiful.
Marceline: Yeah, so–
Williams: Well, I hope he works it out where he can get back here, too.
Marceline: I– I hope so too. And our little grandson [Chae-ok Jones] and your godson is really growing child–
Williams: You know, I gotta get some information. Let– Let me– I want to get the exact address so– and the name and everything so I– ‘cause I want to send something down there to them. This–
Marceline: Oh. That is not necessary.
Williams: No, I know it’s not necessary, but I want to do something about it now. I want uh– The goo– good– the godfather has to say something. (Laughs)
Marceline: (Laughs) Oh, sure. Well, of course, this is grandmother talking, but he sure is a doll, I’ll tell you. Yeah.
Williams: I know, I know, I know.
Marceline: His uh– He’s very uh, Asiatic in appearance, of course, because the father is our Korean boy [Lew Jones], and he’s– he’s a darling little boy.
Williams: That’s so great. What is his name, now?
Marceline: Chae-ok. Uh, it’s C-h-a-e, and then it’s o-k.
Williams: –o-k. Uh-huh [Yes].
Marceline: And it’s Post Office Box 893–
Williams: 893.
Marceline: Georgetown, Guyana.
Williams: Uh-huh. Okay.
Marceline: All right. Of course, his last name is Jones.
Williams: Right.
Marceline: Little guy.
Williams: All right. Beautiful.
Marceline: Okay. Well, it’s good talking to you (unintelligible under Williams)
Williams: Thank you. It’s good talking to you, and anything I can do anytime, just let me know, will you, please?
Marceline: Uh– Yes, I certainly will, and– and the reverse is true, if we can help you, please call.
Williams: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right.
Marceline: Okay. Bye-bye.
Williams: Bye.
Part 15:
Phone rings
Gnaizda Receptionist: Mr. Gnaizda’s office.
Marceline: Is Mr. Gnaizda in?
Receptionist: No, he isn’t. Who’s calling?
Marceline: This is Marceline Jones from Peoples Temple.
Receptionist: Yes, he’s out of the office.
Marceline: Uh, do you expect him in today?
Receptionist: No, no, I don’t.
Marceline: Oh. Could I leave message to have him call me when he comes in?
Receptionist: Surely. Okay. What is your number?
Marceline: It’s 922-9597.
Receptionist: 9597. And is there any message?
Marceline: (Pause) No. I’m Jim Jones’ wife, and I just wanted to talk to him about something I talked to him about earlier.
Receptionist: Okay. Mm-hmm [Yes].
Marceline: All right. Thank you very much.
Receptionist: Bye-bye.
Marceline: Bye.
Part 16:
Phone rings.
Fonda Receptionist: (unintelligible)
Marceline: (Pause) I’m sorry. Is Jane Fonda in?
Receptionist: Uh, no she isn’t. Uh, who’s calling?
Marceline: This is uh, Marceline Jones, Jim Jones’ wife, from Peoples Temple. Could you have her–
Receptionist: Uh, just a second, let me give you her secretary.
(Placed on hold)
Fonda Secretary: Hello.
Marceline: Hello. This is Marceline Jones, James Jones’ wife, from Peoples Temple. Is uh, Jane Fonda in?
Secretary: No, she’s not.
Marceline: Uh, do you expect her in anytime?
Secretary: No, I don’t expect her here. She’s filming today.
Marceline: I see. Could I leave a message for her to call me at her convenience?
Secretary: Sure.
Marceline: Uh, the number is 415-922-9596.
Secretary: Okay. I’ll give–
Marceline: 9597. I’m sorry.
Secretary: Oh. 9597. Okay.
Marceline: Okay.
Secretary: I’ll give her the message.
Marceline: Thank you so much.
Secretary: You’re welcome.
Marceline: Bye.
Secretary: Bye-bye.
Part 17:
Dial tone. Phone dialed.
Marceline: (faintly) Tape it if Jim is there?
Phone rings without answer.
Dial tone. Phone dialed. Phone rings.
Wallach Receptionist: Law offices of Bob Wallach and David (unintelligible name)
Marceline: Is uh, Mr. [Robert] Wallach in?
Receptionist: No, he’s not. Who’s calling, please?
Marceline: This is Marceline Jones, the wife of Jim Jones of Peoples Temple.
Receptionist: Yes. Can I take a message for him?
Marceline: Uh, could he call me?
Receptionist: Sure. Phone number?
Marceline: Uh, it’s 922-9597.
Receptionist: He’s uh, planning on taking an extended vacation starting tomorrow, and he may not have the time to return the call. I thought I’d mention that in case, you know, there’s something you want to tell me about it.
Marceline: Okay. If– I’ll tell you, if– I uh, really was calling– I’ve been gone for a month, and Jim wanted me to call him as soon as I got back to give him his regards and to thank him for the support he’s given and the encouragement he’s given through this difficult time–
Receptionist: Aww.
Marceline: –and to tell him that Jim is doing (Unintelligible word) really well, and we’re building quite a community in Guyana, uh, and I just wanted to report, you know, some of the good things to him.
Receptionist: Okay. Well, I’ll let him know that. Uh, is there– is there anything that he should call to find out about or anything, if he did– if he does have the time?
Marceline: Well, uh, just– if he has time, it’s all– I just wanted him to know, there’ve been a lot of visitors to our– our uh, uh, project down there, uh, the State Department and the Minister of Foreign Affairs–
Receptionist: Right. Right.
Marceline: –and people from the Russian embassy and a delegation from Cuba, and a lot of good things have been said. It’s a community that should be emulated all over the world.
Receptionist: How terrific–
Marceline: –and we would love to have Mr. Wallach or any of you come down and visit any time you can (Laughs). And Jim is doing just beautifully, and if it hadn’t been for friends like you and– and Mr. Wallach, why, uh, you know, it would’ve been difficult during this time (unintelligible under receptionist)
Receptionist: Well, listen, I’m sure Mr. Wallach sends his warmest and best regards back and wants you to keep on doing whatever it is you’re doing that’s working so well.
Marceline: Okay. And just– just tell him I called and said, thank you, thank you, thank you, from Jim and myself.
Receptionist: You bet.
Marceline: Okay.
Receptionist: Bye-bye now.
Marceline: Bye-bye.
Part 18:
Phone rings.
End of tape.
Tape originally posted July 2011