Q757 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Jones: Speaks with precision, confidence) — with this elitist thing, that you can drift here and there, and uh, not be on any mission that I know about. Just because you’re an electrician or you’re an electronics person doesn’t give you the pr— privilege of tripping out on a meeting. Only people in the radio room should be the bare skeleton staff, they— they should be here. (Pause) I’d like to know what makes these people think they have the— the right to just drift out of meetings. It happens all the time. It’s elitism. You ought to be observant and catch it. Now I know you say, well, my parting statement was— (under breath) Oh God, that was stupid. (Pause) (Normal voice) I can cause my own pain by the slap of my hand. The sound, uh— you might salute now, rather than clap. You ought to lift your hands, because the sounds just are a little heavy. I’ve got a very, very severe headache, terribly severe, terribly agonizing severe headache, if you want the goddamned truth. (Pause) You might say, well, the death of the movement would be good, because then I won’t be alive, then I can do my thing. But why do you take that right? I wish I could take that right, but I can’t morally take that right. I could die tonight, then I’d be out of my misery. But the death of the movement— All of the United States (struggles for words) from one end to the other, there’s a conversation about Peoples Temple going on. They made it, those people made it. Thousand socialists over there in Guyana. The ambassador told us yesterday, the talk of Congress, we’re the talk of Congress. Okay, we’re the talk of Congress. You can know we’re the talk of the Left. They’re watching us, the Soviet Union fascinated by us, they come by— the Cubans every day, the Soviet Union. Totally fascinated. In fact, a little threatened, by our goodness and our lack of elitism. But they’re going to come and study it, they said that we could be a model. The Soviet Ambassador stood um, earthspelled, just — that’s not the word I want but I’m under too much pressure — spellbound, he was spellbound by the fact, he said, Jim Jones took the church and used the church to bring people to atheism? And the communists’ study? Not even communist practice, he’d be overwhelmed by the communist practice, even though some of you don’t know why you’re practicing communism. He said, you mean you— he got the church and got them out of atheism, he said, we haven’t been able to do that with the Soviet Union’s churches in 50 years. And he said, we got a control over them, we got the funding over them, we have to give them the money, so that the religion won’t become a vulture on the people, make private collections. We maintain the church, and let them have their religion as much as they need it. But he said, we cannot get them out of their religion. Well, the fact is, to be humble, some of us are not out of it, but— and then you’ve got that paranormal factor that does kind of confuse things. It confuses me, when I can raise somebody up like Rose and stop our young comrade Williams from being crippled, paraly— I don’t mean crippled, paralyzed. And, that— that troubles me, and why three people die in three years, like I mention in para— parliamentary procedure and each die on March 10, three members of Parliament in one small country — very weird — but that doesn’t make me believe there’s any loving God. Noooo. There’s a looong jump from my power to heal, to believe there’s something loving up there. ‘Cause if there’d been something loving up there, they’d have left us alone and never made us take the trip in the first place.

Crowd: Claps and cheers.

Jones: If you don’t— That’s all right, it’s not that much. If you don’t, if you don’t exist, then you don’t have to be healed. If you don’t exist, you’ll never have an accident. (Cries out) How many black youth have been shot down, how many black youth have been paralyzed and there was no Jim Jones to heal them, because they didn’t know him? He wasn’t there. So I don’t make me believe in anything, but me, and believe in the efficacy of communism to teach humans to be something else than animals and to cooperate, because that’s the only way anyone can develop a society worth living. (Calls out to someone) I hope you enjoy it, lad, ‘cause you’re going to be in the box. You better look up here, if nothing else, you’d had better keep your eyes just fixed on me, just like Mark is doing. You better keep your eyes fixed, ‘cause you troubled us. You broke up the whole agricultural meeting. (Pause) And to make you feel less guilt— now immediately starts working at me, guilt. I don’t want those kids to feel the full burden. But out of this is gonna come some good. I don’t think that we could ever talk enough about the advantages of communism. And I know we can’t talk enough about the goodness of the leader.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Although I’m not sure that the goodness of the leader being talked about is what’s going to bring it about. It’s going to be you having to see it and demonstrate it in your own life. If you’re shitty to people and say Jim Jones is good, but if you’re shitty to people that’s in your supervisorial position, you’re not good in the Learning Crew if you’re a coordinator, you’re not good in some agricultural department if you’re a coordinating or supervising person, it won’t make a difference how much you even, if you do — and I think if you really see Jim Jones as good that you’ll show it in your behavior—

Crowd: Right.

Jones: If you understand communism and he is the principle of communism embodied, you will then show that by the way you walk and the way you talk and the way you behave towards your comrades, your brothers and sisters.

Crowd: Right. (Scattered applause)

Jones: So you have you have a right to die. I wish Dad would die, wish he’d just go ahead and die. That’s what some of the thoughts that strike across me— well, then you’d have the right to do your thing, and some of you’d be right to die. But how do you feel about uh, Leona Collier back there, and Alice Inghram and uh, all those black people that are working? How do you feel like, even a young troubled child that turns in a good wage like uh, Kathy, uh, I forgot her parents’ name because they were such evil traitors, Kathy Richardson. (struggles for words) The other name’s just as bad, Kathy Purifoy. But Kathy. Or Jean Brown, she’s a light-skinned marvelous nigger. Or Tom Adams, he’s always doing things. How do you feel about those people? Jim Randolph works his butt getting supplies, Dennis, he good at crating, and even C.J. — lot of folk back there, I could go on and on and on and on and on. I know some of them are goofing off. You bet. Well, I can tell you right now, Martha— uh, Jean Brown’s not goofing off. Leona’s not playing around. I can tell you that. Those two I can talk about, I can step further. Robin [Tschetter]’s not playing around, with a car run over her. That young teenager’s not playing around. And I’m scared to death she’ll get over here and someone will wickedly take advantage of her and crucify that independence. I hope she never never never gives it up. Strong little person. I ordered her to be relieved and trained, she said, I must have done something wrong, I don’t want to go. That’s the right kind of guilt, but she hadn’t, she hadn’t, and I think I convinced her, that she’s young, and it’s time that a teenager get over here— all the rest of them are here. Sure, it’s going to hurt the movement, but guilt brought her. I need her there. ‘Cause she’s honest with money, and you’ll find one in a thousand that are.

Crowd: Murmurs of assent.

Jones: One in a thousand. I’m so glad that the cars run over her and never left any kind of— one mark of pain. And that’s a fact, I just told you that miracle earlier. (Pause) Well, how do you feel about dying, and letting those people? They never have had anything but drudgery, all they been doing is locked up in San Francisco Temple, listen to that shit on the news about us, listen to our enemies, have them come up to the gates and threaten to kill us, have government cars drive by and photograph us. How do all of you people that want to die feel about those good people in— some of them in San Francisco and Los Angeles, that have had to fight this battle— how do you feel about just taking a trip and dying all of a sudden, and they’ve never had a chance to even walk on this soil?

Crowd: Murmurs.

Jones: Oh, you say, they’ll take care of their selves, oh yeah, that’s easy talked about. Sure they will. They’re good honest people, they will. They’ll go right down and shoot a few people. And if we have to do it, they’ll do it. I know they will. But you should some obligation to ka— take the pressure off the leaders, so those people get a chance to take a look at life. Another one’s good, Larry Layton. (Pause) Jewish young man. Andy. God, I go on down down down down down down down down the list. In there fighting. (Unintelligible name — sounds like “Bouvey”). Davey. All along the way. (Pause) Jesus. Up in the valley, run that rest home. Sure they got tr— I know their names, I know their names, I just don’t want to name names, I know them all, know them like (pause) they were the very fingers of my hand. If you want me to name them, I can, (short laugh) certainly, I can name them all. ‘Cause I carry a heavy heavy guilt about them being here— there, and not me being here, ‘cause I don’t want to be, but you being here. Oh I have— how much I want to fight that battle myself, I’d love to look those cameras in the eyes. (Laments) Oh, God. But it’d all been over if I had. ‘Cause I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t have been able to take some of that shit, and if I had, somebody’d have shot me because I’d have talked back to them too much. (Pause) But there’ve been those gates rattled and shook down practically, they tried to drive in, they shot into the back lot. (Pause) How do you feel when you say you want Dad to die, so you can die, or you can go do your thing? What makes some people feel and care, and others not care? (Pause) Primarily, I think it is because you never face the fact that he does care. You think he’s getting something. (Repeats with more emphasis) You think he is getting something. And it’s true. (Pause) Hear me now. I’m getting nothing. Pain, zero, pain. (Pause) Nothing. (Pause) I eat to get strength. (Pause) And those of you that uh, eat out of nervousness, to get sleepy, to get blood sugar, so I would like to say to those that are in the radio room, if they would— when they bring the food, to bring it to the outside edge, and you step up and eat it so I don’t, because the temptation to get rid of this headache is very strong, and the only way I can rid of it is to turn things into blood sugar, ‘cause I don’t have enough blood sugar. I have insulin in my blood, so— bread? Delightful. Sweets? Delightful. It’ll turn it into blood sugar. Then I get free of my headache. And the people don’t understand it enough, but the medical people probably should have explained it, or the doctor — and he isn’t, he’s so busy — that, when you get something at night, when they bring in sandwiches, don’t bring them near me, ‘cause I go out all day and then I see one of those sandwiches and— plus it’s a psychological fact, you know if you eat and— I’m sure there’s that part of it, but— what’s more with me, I just now analyzed it, ‘cause everything I’m telling you tonight is very carefully thought out to be very accurate. (Pause) I eat primarily because it gives me more blood sugar to ease this horrible headache, and to get these sounds from feeling like there— earthquake going on in my brain. (Pause) What were we talking about? Sometimes the pain makes it so difficult that I can’t just hardly remember what I’m talking about. What were we talking about? Does anybody know, or does anybody care?

Crowd: Murmurs.

Jones: (Speech becomes tired) Say we should die and do your own thing and and I think— yes, thank you, son. Stephan [Jones], thank you. If anybody would tem— be tempted not to think, I suspect it’d be your, your natural born. But that was sweet. Helps to make up for some of the guilt. Even though I didn’t plan him coming, I sure have a lot of guilt about it. (Pause) Though he’s given me such joy, as all— (Pause) Yeah, he gives me joy, but that, that’s wrong, so (stumbles for words) I still have a z— I’m not totally at a zero. Lots of you give me— and not much, though, not much, because I think of how unhappy he must be, how much he must have to prove himself, how much people may be judging him by me, and so I don’t get much joy. I don’t think I really get any joy, because I worry about him too much, I worry about all of you too much. I know that— anything you get that— the sensitive ones of you, it isn’t worth it. It just isn’t worth it. It’d be much easier to go into death. But I warn you, in a uh, control mechanism, and a realistic mechanism, I don’t believe the mind dies with the body. If I can raise somebody up, I don’t believe it dies with the body, so don’t try suicide selfishly. You’ll be back back back back, you’ll come back. I’ll bet it isn’t any time until you’re born again in some other baby. Shift yourself. (Unintelligible) people asleep. Maizy. You expect me to heal you when you’re paralyzed, but you sleep all during my speeches. (Pause) If you understood my love, you’d have more healing too. And that’s honest. (Pause) But you don’t understand it. You may be seated. (Pause) We were talking about joy. So there’s no joy, that I don’t see the pain. (Pause) I had a kind of a strong sex urge lately, but never fulfill it, never fulfill it, wouldn’t let myself fulfill it, wouldn’t dream of it, (Awed) because there’s too many people never have had any kind of love at all. (Pause) Strong sex urge lately. You don’t have any idea. Something about this blood chemistry’s driven me more sexually than any human being I hope has ever been driven. But I don’t think about fulfilling it. (Pause) And I’m not willing to give people the bullshit that you do about all that crap, ‘cause you don’t prove your love for somebody in bed. It can be a part of it, (Pause) and to me it’s a very important part of love, to uh, have understanding, and there could be closeness — that closeness should be able to come for a person that is physically ugly, as well as someone that’s physically attractive — so-called, quote unquote. When you see beauty or are touched by it— and I don’t know but I’ll probably be called a freak, but I’m sexually moved by it. ‘Cause sex is life with me. I’ve got my sexual instincts on a higher level than most. Some people go around with their tight— fighting— forming clothes, and try to get all the pimples out. You don’t touch me. But warmth, character, you’re irresistible. But what I want to do most is to hug you, because sex seems to make the female uh, very insecure anyway. If she gets good sex, it’s uh, insecure, whatever (struggles for words), it doesn’t, doesn’t help you. (Pause) So I want to hold people, I would like to hold all of you in my arms and, so that you never have any more pain, never have any more pain, give you all the love I could give you and then be able to grant you eternal rest. But I don’t think it works that way, unless it’s through principle — I believe basically morally, revolutionary suicide’s the only kind of thing that’s justified, and I’m very much concerned for you that if you commit suicide or try to die any other way, doing your own selfish thing or whatever, you will come back. (Resigned) I don’t care. Hell, I’ve been back a million years. It seems like every day’s a lifetime to me. What the hell’s another life? (Short laugh) I really don’t mind anymore. You get to the point where you can take it or leave it, can’t you?

Crowd: Murmurs.

Jones: You get to the point where you can take it or leave it. Shit, it’s just another day. (Pause) But you in Learning have built up such rebellion — and I understand rebellion. Remember, I’m in Learning with you. I’m in the worst learning situation there is. I have to be good, I have to properly appear, I have to smile, I have to say the right thing, I have to do the right thing, and then, by God, I’ve got to make the right decisions. Because every one that I’ve healed in here, that will not be remembered. When one good person goes down, I’ll be blamed. All over the place, there’ll be mumblings (drags out word). There’s mumblings now. Rose is healed, but somebody else doesn’t have the right kind of rice to suit them, or they don’t have this or they didn’t get what they wanted out of the warehouse.

Scattered voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: I am in the worst prison imaginable, ‘cause no matter what I do, it’s never enough. Never. So you in Learning ought to feel that I’m one with you every day. That’s why I don’t like learning. I wish to Christ there was another way. (Pause) Well, I see that, I see that there are people in Learning who don’t have the right understanding — they shouldn’t make you work, they shouldn’t make you keep the rules, they shouldn’t be just using it as a means of asserting their authority or to goof off. It’s not as bad as it used to be, but it’s room for improvement, I’m sure. Anything, obviously, there’s room for improvement. When I know the most sensitive, dedicated human being on earth, says there’s room for improvement in him, I know there’s room for improvement in everybody else.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: But I’ll never be satisfied until I have the same kind of sexual feeling for every good woman — and maybe it should be for every good man — and I probably could say “every good man,” but I have Tim Stoen somewhat in my psyche tonight. I have nothing against homosexuality, I just have a slight problem with some of these men who’ve acted out so miserably, and I have had to have a smell of their nasty ass, and I do resent it, because I don’t like shit, I like flowers.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: (Pause) But homosexuality don’t bother me. You can lick each other’s ass, it doesn’t bother me. But let me out of it, you know, just let me out of all of it. Using and worshipping each other, that’s all, I, I just want to be out of there. But I will be slightly, I’ll — I’ll have some slight bias in pain because I’ve been through it. Man set you up that take care of his wife who you can’t stand, and then he’s tripping around, trading around, going on, and he got you over the barrelhead. You gotta take care of him. Now if you didn’t have to, you’d have to take care of him, because he’s an arrogant prick. (Pause) Wasn’t he. Some of us remember how pissy, how know-it-all, how Mr. Middle Class he was, how WASP-ish he was, how so WASP-y he was, oh, nobody could be more White Anglo-Saxon Protestant than Tim Stoen. He needed to come down. (Pause) But you can’t get a guy like him down enough, unless you got a Learning Crew all the time. (Chuckles.) Too bad we didn’t have it then, we coulda kept him. He might’ve, you know, one little twist and turn in history, a person might have gone a different way. That’s why we don’t dare allow elitism to take place. The people get to thinking the rules don’t apply to them, and they do up all kinds of (unintelligible word) and finally they go and do something like he did. (Pause) Tim Stoen should have been long ago. I have a lot of guilt. We should have cornered him. We should have got to him before he got a lot of information, yet, on this positive side of just being honest, if we’d got to him, we’d have trouble too, because he couldn’t have taken it. A lot of folk can dish it out, but they can’t take it. (Pause) Some of the attorneys would lay in offices, and they had their moments too and bad moments, but by God, one thing, they— I never saw Tim Stoen crawl up behind a goddamn desk or g— go on without his little bath. He always found a way to take care of Tim Stoen’s little white — and I say white, none of you are as white as he is, nothing’s so white as he is, but a dead sheep. He’s white, ‘cause I had to look at him in the ugliest way. (Shouts angrily) And I could kill him for it, I could kill him. (Voice drops back to normal) I’m a man filled with rage, but more guilt. I get mad like you, and when I do, that helps my blood sugar, by the way, I’ll have to do that more often, I— (Laughs) That did me a lot of good. (Pause) I could kill him, I could really kill him. Literally kill him. He’s a son of a bitch, to do what he did to me, to this people, to do what he did. I don’t give a goddamn to me, because it’s you that he hurt. He can’t hurt me. I wish it was just me and him, goddamn his ass, I’d— I’d drive him crazy, but I’ve got to watch every move I take, because it could hurt a Jean Brown or a Leona back there, or a Guy Young, or a whole host of other people, lots of people back there, Alice that needed a chance, Dennis that needed a chance, on down the line, Lexie Davis, on on on on on on on on on on (Voice fades dramatically, then raises). I’d get him tonight, or I’ve got hi— I got the man that’ll get him. All I got to do is say the word, “Go.” (Pause) I love those people too much, it’s not worth it. His white ass ain’t worth it. Let him live. (Pause) Yeah, but there’s only— only one little catch to that. If he ever gets in a court of ru— of law, he can hurt you more. So Dad’s always moving back and forth, like the pendulum, wondering about it. It’s not an easy decision, but I figure he’s probably uh, — well, we can wait to see when the court time comes, can’t we?

Crowd: Right.

Jones: We got time yet, it hadn’t got to court yet. And who g— by that time, we have all our folk out. (Pause) But I would like to leave him alive, otherwise, ‘cause nothing more painful than that, hell, dying, uh, that’s uh, that’d be too nice for him. (Pause) I’d like to make him the tiger bait. That tiger’s been awful nice to us. He’s gotten our enemies and never bothered us. I’d like to park his ass on a stake out there in the yard, let the— let the tiger see him. (Pause) Oh, and then I feel guilt for feeling that. You know, I don’t like to feel vengeance. What the hell is vengeance? Don’t get caught up in vengeance, let’s be caught up in principle. Do what the hell’s right, I don’t know, I won— what the hell went wrong with Tim Stoen, why didn’t he see goodness, why didn’t he respond to it, why didn’t he have some courage, what the hell could— if somebody threaten a man and get him to turn against all of his people and try to do every damn dirty thing under the sun? Some of this stuff this (struggles for words) Council told me yesterday is too painful, I won’t take the time to review what that son of a bitch has done. He’s tried everything, honey. You name it, he’s tried it. (Pause) He’s turned the U.S. Council against him, and he was a WASP just like him. U.S. Council— when he first saw, oh he’s a good man, now he hates him. Devious man, devious. He just hates him. He goes into a rage when you talk about him. And I guess that’s a miracle in itself, because he sure was on his side at first. Shift, please.

Sounds of movement. Someone talks low to Jim.

Jones: Thank you, I’ll keep that in mind. Very thoughtful. (Struggles for words) Then my guilt goes to work, I have to explain that, because she handed me a note, and now someone thinks she’s offering me a fuck, she’s offering me an aspirin. (Pause) You understand? Everything you do, you have to explain. (Pause) Pass that down and see. (Pause. Cries out) No no, no, I’m not— I’m being serious, you wouldn’t learn anything — that you don’t know what the kind of prison, prison is. You’re— You’ve got it easy. You go to bed. (Pause) No no, it’s not your fault, (struggles for words), that’s good, you got guilt, but it’s not your fault, how else you going to say it? You going to say, you need a pain pill because you look like you’re having the (struggles for words) the bad signs? I think enough’s read it now, everybody knows I haven’t got a set-up audience down here, do we have to all go through the audience and read the son—of-a-bitch?

Crowd: No.

Jones: Distract what I’m doing? Everybody read it down there, didn’t they? They asked about an aspirin. [Jewell James] Simpson — you know Simpson, he’s not a liar, the only thing— many people say, look Simpson, look at that. He’ll have to get his specs on.

Murmurs. Long pause. Low voices off mike.

Woman: (talking low) James?

Jones: Yeah? (Pause) What do you want me to do, read that?

Woman: (talking low) I’m just saying, just verify what it says.

Jones: Mmm-hmm. I can’t read that out.

Woman: (talking low) Verify that.

Long pause.

Jones: You know I can’t make it out.

Whispered voice: Turn it off.

Tape cuts off, back on after undetermined length of time.

Jones: (Voice low and tired) Anyway. That’s what I live in, is a glass house, a fishbowl. And so I feel for you children, I hate to see you tied, my heart’s crying out to you, why don’t you let Dad help you, so you won’t have to be tied anymore? Why don’t you do what the other students do? Why don’t you? Because they don’t— they’re not doing this. Uh, they they they they’re not doing this to you, to mistreat you. The teacher’s not picking on you, you don’t think the teachers are picking on you, do you?

Voice of young boy: No.

Jones: Do you feel they’re picking on you?

Another boy: No.

Jones: You see the other students do what they’re supposed to do in class? Mmm?

Boy: Yes.

Jones: Why don’t you do it?

Boy: Because sometimes, sometimes uh, I’d listen to my supervisor sometimes, uh, I don’t—

Jones: I know. Sit down on the table, sit down on the table. You’ve been standing a long while. What uh— not on their knees. Si— Sit them down.

Low voice of woman: Sit down (Unintelligible)

Jones: If I said on their knees, I’d do it for an organizational reashon, reason. But I don’t like seeing people on their knees. (Pause) Well, son, everybody else listens and stays out of Learning, and they— they’re not good. Nobody’s perfect. But they’re not on Learning like you, and they’re not leaping out of windows to run away. (Pause) Now how many understood what I said to you about the benefits that I’ve given you? The benefits of communism? Not to mention the benefit of a paranormal dimension that the Soviet Union’s spending a million dollars a day, two million now, to try to understand my paranormal faculty? I didn’t see a hand go back up there. Don Fit— Fitch? Don Fitch, I didn’t see your hand go up. And you’re very creative, so it must not be that you ignore principle. (Pause) Okay. (Pause) Important. Important that you understand me. And right now, you can say, well, Dad, I don’t believe in you. Then ask me, because I’m so sure of my principles and my goodness and my honesty and my introspection and my soul-searching analysis, that I can answer any question you’ve got to ask. And if you can see my goodness, then you would work on your goodness — maybe, maybe — maybe it would be too heavy — but I doubt it. I think it would be much easier, living here and working if you could fully see my goodness and know what pain I go through, then whatever little pain you have, or how much you could endure much better, I would think it would be easier in the long run. Some of you fight from seeing it, because you think, well, if I do see it, then I’ve got to, you know, do it consciously, I suppose, but subconsciously, you say, I don’t dare see it. If I do see it, then I’ve got to do something with it. I’ve got to be good. And I don’t want to see that kind of goodness. Or you want to think I’m a different kind of man. He heals, he raises the dead, so he don’t feel like I do. I have more pain than you do. I have more depression, I have more suicidal feelings than you do, in that I never know when I haven’t (Laughs bitterly) had one, since I was a child and saw a little dog die, due to the bounce of the ball that I wish I hadn’t been playing with when it happened, but somebody else did it. I felt right then, hmm, it isn’t worth it. Seeing people die, seeing the people you love go down in the, the grave, and what’s worse, seeing them die slowly. Watching my best uncle, the only one that had any humanity, so sick of life, and there was no communists around to help him, that he grabbed wood alcohol and drank it, then spit his stomach out, piece by piece. Then he couldn’t die, and his stomach was practically gone. Didn’t know communism in those days. He went down, trying to find some bunch of thugs that would run the gang, the Mafia of that town — there wasn’t a real Mafia, but you know the, the, the criminal element — took him on, they threw him— they had to throw him bodily off of a bridge to kill him. (Pause) Been best if he’da stayed around to try to help me, because I was having a hard time, but he never, never saw it that way. So I made up my mind, that I would never go that way, I’d always stay around, try not to disappoint people — it’s terrible to disappoint people. It’s awful to leave people alone. (Pause) Sleep well, Wanda. I try to stay awake, now, I’m not going to put you on any Learning tonight, but I really question why you’re sleeping. Question it. Why am I sleeping when Jim Jones is talking now? (Whispers) Why? What in me is causing me to sleep — maybe that somebody’s had an unusual time, two days of— if Bro- Brothers Edwards were asleep, I’d understand. Eh, those poor people had to be down there with Lela Murphy, self-centered as she was, the poor woman, it’s bad enough to bury one old white racist like she is — nah, I’m, I’m not going to talk good about the dead, I’m going to be like Moms Mabley and say, you’re (struggles for words) the only good I can say is she’s dead.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: ‘Cause Lela Murphy was a hellion. She’s a hellion to take care of, she was a hellion in life, and she stole money off of me and kept it. Kept it. I, I— she stole money in the little green house next to— but still I care for her, I feel for her, I don’t like pain, I did everything that I could, I transported her out of here, took her on an emergency flight, paid the emergency flight, took her to best hospital, and got her the best doctors. But when she died, I sure wasn’t going to rush over there to heal her like I did Rose. I wasn’t about to. They said, she’s in pain. I said, okay. I’ll try to see if she can die. And she died in about seven, eight minutes. But I, I didn’t, I didn’t get in— I didn’t get involved in it. But they buried her in the wrong place, without thinking (unintelligible word), and buried her too close to the river, and I said, uh, oh, don’t get her close to our water, and so they, blessed hearts, they had to dig her back up again. And they hadn’t nailed her down and fixed her like I said, you fix her just like you’d fix mine. You fix her just exactly. (Pause) I don’t have any respect of persons. We bury everybody alike. So they had to go back and p— pick her up and clean her up and put her back and nail it shut and bury her in the right place, because Father an ekal—galitarian in life and he’s an egalitarian in death. We die around here, we’re all going to get the same treatment. When we get sick, we’re all going to get the same treatment. We’re not going to look at Lela Murphy and say, I don’t like her. And that may be what is happening with the— you can— this can happen with a uh, situation that you have, you know, it can happen. Sure, he’s spoiled, and Jeff [Carey]’s done lots of things, you’ve got a manipulative personality, I still can’t fit it together how he went to jail and didn’t raise any issue, but I been— I’ve had folk raise issue, honey, when they thought they were going to jail, much less go. Now you were in there for theft, uhh, when you hadn’t done anything, you hadn’t stolen, you were doing something else, trying to uh, keep uh, an ey— a watchful eye on an enemy. And he went to jail and didn’t make no complaint and nobody for— remembered him in the shuffle, but me. I like to went crazy on the back of that bus. So you say, you like Jeff. Yeah, I do, I do. Say you got any special sentimal— sen— sentimentality to him? Well, I got more sentimentality than I do to him than Lela Murphy, who all could ever do every time I saw her was, Father give me this, Father give me that, Fath— Sure. (Pause) But he shouldn’t use that if he’s got conscience, he shouldn’t use that to get any special advantage. And I’ve seen him endure more than some of the rest of you in other areas, I’ve seen him waste his time and not organize himself and do these ma— these trick games by thinking his mind ought to deserve better things. Ah, I wish it did. I wish the world was better. And if you get your ass together, it will be, you know, we can— (Pause) we’llget out of this quagmire. The Soviet Union is absolutely emphatic that the Prime Minister is going to go left and gonna move his cabinet left and he’s on his way to Moscow, and they told us that last night. Well, time will see. If that’s the case, then I’ll be able to ship you kids, and you won’t have to worry about travel restrictions, and if you do have educational desires, you can go. Right now, I’ve got to be very very careful who comes and goes, till my people get here, you can understand that.

Crowd: Murmurs of assent.

Jones: I’ve been nervous as hell with all those folk in town. Anything go wrong when you got 87, 86, 87 of our people in town, knowing how some people do. You know what I mean.

Crowd: Murmurs of assent.

Jones: And knowing the real enemy that stands out there lurking to try to destroy? They can do anything, anything, and people are so self-centered, some of them, that they do their own trip. It only takes one to cause us a real severe battle. But I would like to tell you, you have a chance of victory in communism that you never had. (Talks fast) So you tell me anyplace else where they take a black woman and two men, and have them charge that Tim Stoen did with assault to do murder, or something like that, some conspiracy to do bodily harm, and (struggles for words) say they violated the law? And they got six Guyanese witnesses, or seven, I’ve forgotten how many. (Shouts) And I said, you’re not taking them. Well, uh, Dr. (unintelligible name) says uh, you’re not having uh— Mr. Marcus, the police commissioner of all Guyana said, you’re not above the law. (Shouts) I said, I don’t care. You tell him that I’ve quit talking to him. I said, piss on him. I went on above him. And I said, I’m going to tell you, you better release those people, drop those papers, don’t you come and look for them, ‘cause we’re not going to be alive out here, if you do. We’re going to raise hell, we’re not going to eat, and then we’re going to do some other things. And I didn’t tell him what. And by God, it wasn’t about what— we won that one — about seven hours later, they said, well — they got a hold of us real quick, they always come on tough, there’s only one thing you can do in life, not go against the movement, for Christ’s sakes, don’t be a crazy nigger just for your own right to act nasty and mean, but be a crazy nigger when you’re dealing with a class enemy. You’ve got to be that all the time. And I’m not crazy — that’s a (unintelligible) to some of you, you play, honey, when I started, shit, there ain’t no play in it, baby, I mean business. I said, let me tell you one thing, you had better let those people loose, you had better not touch one of them, I better hear no more of this, or we’re finished. I want to hear you, I want you to promise and give me guarantee that all charges have dropped. Now you tell me where in the hell you’re going to get that kind of protection. And he was nasty as hell, that police commissioner. By God, seven hours later, he was calling our people in, apologizing, wanting me on to get a message to me, (dramatic whisper) everything’s all right (unintelligible word), it’s all taken care of.

Crowd reacts.

Jones: (Crying out) Now that’s what you get in a communist society, that kind of protection, with a communist leader that’s pure. A structure. You’ve got a thousand people that’ll defend you when they come for you, if they’d have broken through the line, and I hadn’t been able to convince them with the will of my voice, they’d have broken through that line and there’d been a thousand before they’d get any one of you.

Crowd responds.

Jones: There’s a thousand people guaranteeing that you eat tonight. There’s a thousand people guaranteeing tonight that you will have the best medicine. Some of us will sell our bodies. I still had some opportunities. Hell, the last time I was in Georgetown, I can find some of those old floozies. We’ll make a way.

Cries of assent.

Jones: We’re not going to starve over here, honey.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: The only way you can do it is by some internal combustion— we can only be hurt from within, going out and doing something, lying like the Williams’, that kind of stuff, doing a lot of devious work like that, we can ride (write?) over a lot of that too, so don’t get too cocky. And believe me, the next person does that shit, ai— ain’t going to get by.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: And I don’t think we’ll kill you, I think we’ll kidnap you and bring you over here for a trial.

Crowd: Right. Claps and cheers.

Jones: You understand. (Laughs) Shift yourself. We’ll bring you over here for a trial.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: You say we can’t do it. You don’t know. If Tim Stoen knew how many people were watching him right now, he would have a baby through his asshole.

Crowd reacts.

Jones: He hasn’t made a move in the United States, there hasn’t been somebody on his bottomside. (Shouts) Just waiting. If he knew how much people were watching him— I know Tim Stoen. He’d turn whiter than he is. (Shouts) They’re just waiting. All I need is just one signal. Go, thou, send me. (Voice returns to normal) That’s not the word. Now obviously. I’m talking in the Proverbs of those that will understand. (Shouts) All they need to hear is to say, “It’s it. It’s a White Night. It’s it. Get our enemies,” and there’ll be two, three hundred people on those sons-a-bitches faster than honey, (voice drops to normal) uh, flies on a honey. You bet your life.

Crowd: Claps and murmurs of assent.

Jones: (Preacher’s cry) They’ll be on ‘em. They’ll get ‘em. They won’t get away, and I don’t know why you think you’d get away. Why should you? It’s immoral to destroy an organization like this, it’s immoral to try to kill a movement where a leader cares so infinitely as he cares, and tries to build a structure of caring, it’s immoral, it’s criminal, and you should get it, goddamn you.

Crowd: Shouts of assent.

Jones: (Voice returns to normal) That’s good, it gives you chance to stretch, do that. (Laughs) And a little, “That’s right”s don’t bother me, it’s the loud, loud clapping and roaring (rolling?) that does, so, “That’s right” helps the morale of others. Not me, but the morale of others. (Pause) So what does communism give you? As I said to Andrew Young, according to the Foreign Minister of Guyana, is going to be sacrificed just before the elections — wouldn’t be surprised, he’s about right. He’s a liability. And yet he lifted up the vot— lone vote in the Security Council to vote for Rhodesia. The lone vote. (Incredulous) How can a black man lift his hand up for that white regime? Jesus Christ. Is there any job on earth worth that?

Crowd: No.

Jones: I mean, someone’s going to get it sooner or later. You gotta go home and live with yourself, you gotta go to bed, somebody— I, I don’t know what, what happens to some of these people. I guess I know what America did. (Reverts to preacher’s shout) That’s why it’s such a vicious, fascist state. It is taught from the beginning of this psychological approach of life, don’t entertain guilt. They teach against it everywhere you go, from Christianity, all through the institutions of learning, must not be guilty. That must be why they’re so fucking mean.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: (Cries out) Because you will indulge yourself and justify everything you do, unless you feel guilty about the things you do wrong. (Normal voice) But not, not America. Not America. Guilt is a bad thing. Don’t get the child guilty, don’t let them have any guilt. Well, I’ll take my guilt, because it’s produced more goodness than those sons-a-bitches ever will produce, all of them put together, without their guilt. (Pause) Can you think of all the benefits of communism tonight, and we screw it up? You tell me— this security, you tell me one that’s got this kind of security. We got one big— the collaborator with Dr. Papp. We’re not going to keep that fucker away from here. He’s going to come here. White, rich, and he going to come here. He— We tried telling him chartering an airplane is difficult, he’s going to charter an airplane. (Pause) So it’s going to be a hell of a trip, I’m going to be Al Touchette, I don’t know what the hell I’m going to do with that. I’ll take the sign down, and be holding it, I, I don’t know. You tell me how to handle that. But he’s, he’s old and tired of life. He wants to come. And after a while, he’ll forget who Al Touchette was, I don’t give a shit. (Pause) ‘Cause I, I’m so concerned about principle, I’m not Jim Jones on that radio, that would hurt. Anybody else would do all that talking in their own name. I haven’t built up one wick of friendship for Jim Jones, I build it up for you in the name of Al Touchette. Because he’s the operator. I don’t want to get Jim Jones in it until I build and build and build and build for you. Who cares about— And that ought to be a real clear proof to you, too. Ain’t nobody on the goddamn earth be talking all night on the radio for them— except for themselves. Except a few people in this movement.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: (Shouts) Nobody. They get the credits. The credits would come to them. They wouldn’t talk all night, but all I’m thinking about is building friendship and strength, and getting supplies, and you know what it’s got me from one doctor? You know how much medicine is coming into Dr. Green? If it never gets here, some of the Guyanese take us, it’ll be— we’ll be another further help to the economy. Do you know how much he’s shipping? Yesterday? 13,000 pounds of medicines.

Crowd: Murmurs.

Jones: (Shouts) If we talked all night all the rest of our life, it’d be worth that. (Normal voice) They gonna send it to the care of the Minister of Health, Dr. Green, for this project. Well.

Low voice in crowd.

Jones: They say on there all night. Like I had that man, the pharmacist on all night, I, I had him on, he was doing this relay, we had this crisis with Rose, we had all the link, all the link we had was to her life, until I heal— was between him and Georgetown, he been on there for, I don’t know, God knows how long, and he doesn’t exist, all the time he been on there trying to get this relay because we going to have to get that emergency plane. We couldn’t hear 8R1, we couldn’t hear WA6GJ, we couldn’t hear San Francisco, all we could hear was this guy. I said, I’m so sorry, after two hours, he said, I don’t have anything to do but go to work in the morning. (Pause) He said, I’m grateful for the experience. He said, I haven’t got anything to do but stay up all night, go to work, work in the morning at 8 o’clock. Big pharmacist. Empty. Who talk about capitalism gives joy? You get on there, listen to that radio. Doctors, lawyers, business people, owners of factory, all night on that son of a bitch? They don’t love their wife, or they’d get to bed.

Crowd: Murmurs.

Jones: And by God, they ought— do something, find a man or a dog or something, by Christ, anybody have to be crazy to love that son-of-a-bitch all night. I love you, that’s why I’m on it all night. But they’re on it all night. You ought to come in here and hear it, you wouldn’t believe it. They’re there all week— all night, every night, they come and say, hi Jim. Hi Al. ‘Cause Prokes is Jim and I’m Al, and somebody— I don’t know who the fuck is, everybody is, we’ll go— we’ll go schizophrenic, somebody el— she’s Sarah, and we got a name for us. Think I mi— I want, just want to say a word, been trying to— been— one, one man that owned a big uh, grain factory, I won— I been waiting five weeks to get in to say a word of hello.

Crowd: True, true.

Jones: (Incredulous) Five weeks! All night? Five weeks, it’s what you have to do, ‘cause it’s just all night, dotdotdotdot, I say, uh, now, 8R1 standing by for any other station wants to talk, blah blah (mimes gibberish). That’s the way it sounds. Till I have to say, will you please give me your city and your call? I— You can’t hear them without the city. You would never pick them out, with all the numbers. They throw so many call numbers (tape cuts out)

(Second side blank)

Tape originally posted January 1999

Last modified on August 25th, 2014.
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