Q963 Transcript

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(This tape was transcribed by Nightrissa Crosby. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)

Male: I’m lying. That’s why I got in trouble–

Jones: Wait a second, wait a second. Mary, Mary. Wait a second here. Look at it– are you stealing around here, or aren’t you? (unintelligible word). No, you’re not entitled to be a child. I wasn’t entitled to be a child. Say, I had bad conditions, well, fuck your conditions. (Pause) Say, your conditions outdo my conditions because, (unintelligible phrase) ought to be given a seat. Man of his years, and I‘ve raised him up from the stroke, they carried him out here in death. There ought to be more suscen– uh, susceptibility– sensitivity to (unintelligible word) that. (pause) And so should [Eugene] Chaikin, not because he’s an attorney, but because he has a very drastic condition. There’s a seat over here and there– there– there’re seats over here, I’m sure. (Pause) (voice rises) All right. Now we will continue with the uh, marathon and almost futile efforts to explore our conscience. Are you sicker than me?

Voice: No.

Jones: I doubt it. You don’t know what a blood sugar of 45 is. Ask the doctor. It’s pretty bad. Makes you feel awfully miserable. Your blood sugar should be 90. Mine never gets over 45. Every time they take it, it’s 45, 45, 45, 45. Nurses take it, doctor takes it, it’s always 45. That leaves me in headaches and uh, dizziness, extreme irritation, like to just knock the block off of people, but I never do. And it’s always direct, when I do feel like knocking the block, it’s a block that deserves to be knocked, if you understand. Out of frustration. You may be around me when I can’t get to a block that I want to knock, so you’ll feel my voice raise or– I’ve had no disturbance. I jumped off a pulpit once and had one– one little uh, issue of uh, irritation display in this place, and I’ve been through two goddamn wars, planning the defenses of our people in America and in Georgetown and here. And the last time I jumped off a pulpit– It’s been a long time ago. (unintelligible word) I don’t even remember who grabbed her throat. And that’s what insulin does, it drives you. It’s how I can keep this enormous pace, I suppose. It’s still also care– awesome, because it makes that generator out there sound like– It makes all your whispers sound like (shouts) cannon. (Pause) (Normal tone) Now just cool it and that generator sounds like somebody thub– uh, beating a drum in my ear. And you can’t know that. I don’t even give a shit. I don’t give a shit whether you know anymore. I’m not even caring, ‘cause I don’t believe anybody will know. I think I will be put down in the history, if there is a history of this place and the successive leadership, they’ll put me down because I had to be the tough guy. And nobody likes a tough guy. Some people like to be tough guy. I don’t like it. That what– that’s why I can be trusted with it. Some people like power. I hate it. I’d rather be the friend. You can see that when I go down and pat you and love you and cry with you. That’s my nature. Anyway (exhales) I have the– as many problems as you, came from just as poverished a background as you, I mean a poverished background, impoverished background. So we went through one winter where we had no food. I was thrown off a bridge by my dad, and rejected much as could be by my mom, who had to fight for survival, and I had to live alone and find my way. I went through the hate and the cold with no doctor. When the ice was coming through the roof, and landing on my body. I mean (unintelligible word) forming ice on my– on the cover that I had on my bed. I have known poverty. Normally, psychologically, that would make you very, very, very mean. You’d come out and you’d be the worst capitalist on earth, if you know anything of psychological evaluation. Instead of being a caring person, that kind of aggression, hostility imposed on you by external circumstances would make you not a caring person. You’ll usually find it makes a person very (unintelligible word) cap– capitalistic. But instead of doing that, it taught me – and I don’t know what taught me – made me teach myself, that it isn’t right for any child to go through what I did, and I’m trying very hard to keep children from going through pain. Unfortunately, to get a free land that belongs to us and be able to be economically self-sufficient and have our own food, and fight off the enemy, we have to be highly unified, and that takes discipline, that takes work, that takes structure. The government backing uh, as they have backed us– still backing us, in spite of those that– the US is grumbling uh, would not come– would not come at all. What backing we’ve had, would’ve never come, if we had’na come out here and seen a highly organized, almost spartan society producing. (Pause) And if you can imagine survival any other way, until the nuclear war comes and wipes the USA off the face of the earth, I don’t know how you can talk about it. They’d throw us out of this country, if we were a bunch of hippies running around with our beards and long hair. And even if you made agriculture, they would. There was a group of Americans just across the wood that did so, and they threw them out. They lined them up and loaded them up in a plane one night and took them away, because they were growing marijuana.

Crowd: Stirs.

Jones: They didn’t let them take a penny with them. All– They left everything behind and can never return, and the only way– So I know what the history of this country is. They’re wanting people to come in and set examples, and the CIA and the Interpol and every other damn conspiracy’s tried to do everything to (voice rises) destroy us, and to make it impossible for me to function here, and keep me diverted. Then I’ve got people here that could lead, and do more. People frustrate their efforts. Then there’re are some, I’m reading here about one leader who uh, one of the cassava crews uh– I– I– You’re a good person, but they said they can’t talk to you. Any– anything they say to you, you– you are defensive. You will never lead that way. You can’t do your best job that way. And it’s true of a– a many a leader here. They got real problems. They don’t deal with people, they don’t like people, and they refuse to be kind to people. Um-hmm [Yes]. See anything less th– It’s anything but an ideal circumstance. It’s not ideal. We have some leaders who are kind, but very few. And I’m not in any mood, ‘cause I just– I would just as– I’m just in so much pain, I just like to fall over. So it– it doesn’t make any difference to me. It doesn’t make any difference. I see some that are not here. Where are they? (pause) I see people who are not here. (Stumbles over words) What the– what excuse have they got? Hmm?

Crowd: (too low)

Jones: (unintelligible word) All in a sense of righteous indignation, and I would suggest if you know– have any idea of who I might be referring to, I would suggest that you get them in here very quickly, because I’m liable to explode, because this is a very just demeanor that I’m in. I’m not uh– not uh, at all disturbed in any sense of my mental or physical equilibrium, I’m just disturbed with people who think that they have a right, (voice rises) even though they do (reverts to conversational) in their family style of USA to take special privilege. But not here. By giving and being a communist parent, I’ve given my children more than – and I can say that with holding my head high – I’ve given them more than I would if I had been a capitalist parent. My children would’ve been destroyed by drugs and street crime, just like yours. And when you get sick and upset– Shift yourself. When you get disturbed about it, stop and think about it. How many of our kids were on their way to jail? How many?

Crowd: (too low)

Jones: I see some of your hands didn’t raise. (stern) You had kids. You had kids that were going to jail for shoplifting. They were doing it, they were sure as hell doing it. I know what was happening in San Francisco. How many of you kids were shoplifting?

Crowd: (too low)

Jones: Now you find any exceptions to that. How many of the adults were shoplifting too? Be honest. Real honest.

Crowd: (too low)

Jones: Kids and children, put your hands up. Yeah, look (unintelligible word)– More than just putting people on Learning, Learning, Learning, that isn’t going to reveal who I am. That’s why I mean principle. So we’ve got to do other things than just administration. Normally our meetings not made up of me talking. They’re made up of certain responses really to uh, good behavior and bad behavior. (pause) So why don’t you look at your life, and say hey, I’m making a plus one out of myself, or a plus nine usually. We’re supposed to be zeros. We’re supposed to be nothing, nothing, nothing, crucified, nothing. (unintelligible word) Damn it, I want this. Think about the little black baby in South Africa that’s starving to death in its mother’s arms as a result of US dollars that you– (feedback) US tax dollars that you paid. You paid, fucker, didn’t work all day. You paid. You’re a murderer. Everyone here is a murderer. We’re trying to make up for it, but you’re a murderer. Twenty, ten, five, (voice rises) forty years, some of you paid taxes.

Voices in Crowd: (Agree)

Jones: Where’s your taxes? It’s over there. It’s tax dollars over there, and your US colonels and majors are over in Rhodesia, torturing little babies and pulling off the balls– having the little babies pull off the balls off their dads like Obleeku [phonetic]. (Pause) You’re a murderer. (Deliberate) You are a murderer. You and I have been murderers. You say, I’m not, I’m a kid. You ate the fucking food that the dad and mom put on your– on your plate. You ate– you ate– you ate the food, so all of you are murderers too. Every time you bought Coca Cola, you helped Coca Cola, one of the biggest investors in South Africa that has caused the uh– the racist terror and murder. Every time you did it. I bet you come in now.

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: Watch that blackboard. Put it over there closer. We don’t want to destroy it. I have to worry about every piece of property. If you did, I would be able to be much more of the gentle father, instead of having to give so many rules. (Calls out) We all were guilty. Not only do we have to look outside the United States, 200 people dropped– were– were killed by the FBI in Wounded Knee. (Disdainful) Who pays the FBI? Your taxes. The FBI that murdered the black leaders, the Panthers, Malcolm. I just read to you tonight in the news. (cries out) Who murdered them? (low voice) You. Me. Our dollars. And you set there looking tired (Shouts) Fuck you. I’m going to come out and beat your head now. Least you should stay with it tonight, ‘cause I don’t talk. I usually don’t talk. (Pause) Got no reason to feel tired. You ought to feel guilty tonight. You have a-plenty to eat, and you can go back for seconds. I– I passed a woman today, that she’s twenty to thirty pounds too heavy, and the plate was heaped like it– it– it– it looked like something you give to a hog. (Pause) You got no right. You got no right to complain. Uh-uh [No]. No right to complain. (Emphatic) Not one right in the world, when little babies are dying in mother’s arms. Even children are being napalmed in Mozambique on the border as they were uh, last night. You got no– you got no right, ‘cause your tax dollars (forceful) paid for the napalm. Your taxpayer’s dollars, yours, yours, yours, yours, every one of you. You old people think you’re not– You (unintelligible word) get uptight over sex. You wouldn’t do anything, (angry) some of you, you wouldn’t fuck. Oh, that’s so terrible, fuck for socialist. That’s so horrible. (low tone) Boy, I’m glad– I’m glad our freedom didn’t depend on you. I’m very glad I didn’t feel as sanctified holy as you, or we wouldn’t have the medical equipment, the 10,000 dollar microscope, just one of them alone, 10,000 dollars. We wouldn’t have the 10,000 dollars coming in X-ray, we wouldn’t have the electrocardiograms, two of them. Wouldn’t have them. (Riases voice) What the hell? You always questioning my honesty. Questioning my honesty. I– Anybody know that I gave all these millions up, when I coulda collected it. You people that’ve given it to me. When I healed you– How many have I healed here? How many have I got out of trouble? How many have I got your loved ones out of jail? All right, for Christ sake. Yes, yes, he said I got my (unintelligible word) got us out of jail. Now, wouldn’t you give me the money? You’da given me the money. Well, you did one time. You signed it all over. When they wouldn’t follow me, they signed it over. I don’t know, it’s uh, a few hundred thousand dollars? Did I take it? Hell, no. Obviously I didn’t take it. Got my first shirt. Somebody passed this down the way, I don’t know whose it was, it was too heavy. It’s not good for work out in the field, but at least it’s a shirt that isn’t– isn’t too tight on me. Only I uh– Still I got the same two pair of pants with holes in them. So (voice rises) obviously I’m not uh– I’m not taking advantage. Who in the hell would want– This is a picnic. Somebody says he gonna the– one– one of the uh, first comers, they say, well, he– there’s some rumor that I’m– I come– come over here and make slaves out of the people, and then– then kick you off after I’ve g– got the place. What the hell would I want with it? (chuckles) I don’t want to even live, so what would I want with this place? And I wouldn’t want it, unless you could share it. But I can take seven-and-a-half million dollars, if I’da sold you out, and I can still get it. All I have to do is get the CIA on the line, (claps hands once) tell them and leave you. Shit. They’d pay me ran– They’d pay me handsome. They’d pay me riches. And where would I– Go– Go sit in a resort some place. I can set in a resort, eat what I want to, drink what I want to, and have tailor-made clothes, if I wanted to. But I couldn’t do that. That’s not me, ‘cause I couldn’t live with my conscience. (Shouts) You got no place you can go. Back to the States in worst condition you’ll be that’ll grab your ass. You got nothing to sell. Well, I– I– I’ll give– What you’re going to sell? One of you skip over and go over the hills, if you can make it through the snakes and the tigers, which are 14 feet long, we found with some of the folk coming back up there in the cassava. One swat of the paw and breaks your back. If you got through, what the hell you going to sell. (chuckles) Every fucker’s gone before you. Wake that girl up on that post. Don’t you sleep on me tonight, I’m in no mood for it. I like you, you’re a nice girl, Carol, but don’t sleep on me. Not tonight. There’re a few times I teach, and when I do, I don’t want nobody sleeping. It’s been weeks since I taught. (Pause) Shift yourself. (Pause) Sit down. George, you can jump up and down, I don’t mind. (Pause) Now, one man all day long you spent– You’ve been here two days, one day you get the day off, but (draws out word) all day long, you avoided work. I beg on the bottom bri– brigade and you never showed up. You can get your ass in church, and you gotta be forced to get here. Don’t play games here. Uh-uh, uh-uh, uh-uh. You didn’t come over here to do that. We didn’t bring lazy asses over here. You’re a killer. You’re a killer. I said you’re a murderer. You got to make restitution for your murder, just like I did. You gotta give yourself as much as you can, to try to make a better world, to create food so we can bring in more people and give them a chance to get out of the racist hell. And finally make a revolutionary core to build a better world. That’s not now, that would be Trotskyism, if we did that now. Hm? (Pause) I hope you understand what I’m talking about. I hope we all understand each other. Laziness does not go in socialism. Say, I– well, I didn’t understand, you– you’re– if you’re a Christian. Paul was hard on it worse than I. He said if you don’t work, you don’t eat. And he didn’t say whether you’re 72 or 29. He said, you don’t work, you don’t eat.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: And if I say that, then some of you folks uh, would starve to death. ‘Cause you don’t do a spit lick of work. You think we don’t know you. (chuckles) Shit. Hypochondriacs lying up with the nursing de– quarters. Ah, shit, we know you. We know you, you ain’t got no more trouble than that post there. (Mimicking tone) Got this trouble, and I got that trouble, and I got this trouble, and shit. (Normal tone) One woman, we thought she’s dying, we run out of medicine, we had to change it for aspirin, and shit, she got to feel better, and she said oh, my God. Oh glory hallelujah. You’re going to have to have surgery. Oh, I’m feeling real good. (Chuckles) (Pause) Yeah. We know you, honey, so quit your games. Some of you get backaches, and you get your– uh, you get this busted and you get that busted. (Draws out word) All the reason you do it is because you want to lay off. Quit tying up our surgery when we’re in a war. Hm?

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Face your subconscious. Avoidavoid accidents. I try– I wo– I work hard. You watch me when I was running over there to run to get to the brigade, because I had to run from the radio and run back. When I ran, you watch how I run. Jump over the plants, carefully, jump and I’m going on 50. And I jump jump jump jump. Move carefully. I don’t just run haphazardly, though, to sprain my ankles, ‘cause if I sprain my ankles, you’ll be in trouble. If I sprain one it’ll be in str– real– real– you’ll know, it’ll be on an accident. Oh, I know some people’ll do it too. Sprain it by accident. But there some folks that have accidents all the goddamn time to keep out of work.

Crowd: Stirs.

Jones: Hmm. I just want you to know that I do know you. We– You thought you were going to get a little Marxist parliamentarian. I’m– I’m talking pragmatism now, practical thought. I don’t know what else there is to cover on that subject. I don’t think you can make people be a zero unless they uh, are decent. And the only way you make decent people, Mao [Tse Tung] says, is out of the barrel of a gun. Now there’s people not looking at me right now, and shaking their head, and moving back and forth. I’ll bet you if I pointed my revolver at you, I bet your eyes would uh, get open. I bet that woman wouldn’t be nodding, would she. And the man over there, he said he couldn’t work today, he had– he had real pain. I bet you– I put my gun on you, I bet you’d work all night without stopping.

Crowd: Stirs.

Jones: Bet you– I bet you can carry wheelbarrow after wheelbarrow.

Crowd: Scattered laughter.

Jones: Um-hmm. Thank you, Reb [James Edwards].

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: And others, if I just say, well, by God, if you don’t do it, you’re going to get something else. Death wouldn’t bother some of you, but something else would. I’d get to you. We make convenience for our ailments. Some people dying, don’t even come see the doctor. Hmm?

Voices in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: And then in a moment of when they think they’re going to go over, like Rose Peterson giving up with cancer, I come along, and heal. If it’s the right time and place, it’ll be. Several like that. Several right to the jaws of death and ready for surgery. Pauline Simon, laying in intensive care, says there’s no way she’s can live. Why didn’t she get healed? Her goodness? No, there’s other reasons there. (chuckles) Don’t ask me a fucking thing tonight, I’ll tell you. I hope you don’t. I hope some things you don’t ask me. You getting ready to ask me another question, Joyce? Be careful. I could tear this place up tonight with my mouth.

Joyce: It isn’t anything personal. (chuckles) Uh, I– I’ve noticed–

Jones: I don’t give a goddamn.

Joyce: I’ve noticed you frequently referred to uh, the kind of– of thought that you go by as Marxist-Leninist, a combination of the two. And I wondered in what way they were combined.

Jones: Well, [Karl] Marx is the theory, and [Vladimir] Lenin practiced it. He put it into practice. He developed it, and he improvised the thought and adapted it to human conditions. That’s why I say Marxist-Leninist thought and Marxist-Leninist practice. Lenin is the father of the revolution. Marxist dreamed about it, and Lenin established it, and that’s what– that’s pretty much what I mean. Um-hmm [Yes].

joyce: (too soft).

Jones: Oh, I don’t know. That’s– that’s a good thing I need to elaborate on. But I don’t know how to elaborate on it, other than I’ve told you, when you feel like you’re entitled to something, try to force yourself to imagine what it would be, uh, if you were to quit. Everybody’s got somebody that’d be hurt. Say, nobody’d miss me. Oh yes, they would. Most of you got somebody, some little baby that looks to you. Some little child that you’re the only source of love. Some neighbor that needs your help in the field. And if there wasn’t anybody, what about the babies in the world that we could really– We could make a touch– We can make an inroad to the tomorrows. Another moment we can organize ourselves heavily, and make a reverse and go back and raise a lot of hell in several cities. I don’t think that’s practical. I don’t think that’s practical. There’s not enough going on back there to do it. So we have to make our stand here. But there’s always a– a way you can think less of yourself, if you’ll try. You can look around and see somebody who’s had more pain than you. Right in this room, you can find some pretty bad shit. Made slaves– made slaves here, made to work all day, gettin’ up in the morning, just layin’ down at night, sunrise until sun setting, and some later. And drop babies in cotton fields, and watch them die. Most of the mothers in here have lost children. You’ve raised a typical middle class audience? Not so. How many have lost children here? (Pause) You think about that. You lost them because you were black, you were a worker, you were an oppressed person, you were brown, you were poor white. Same conditions, if you’d been rich, you wouldn’t– they wouldn’t have had. Oh, there are things that get to the rich too, they finally get– Help this sister, don’t make her hold– hold her arm in this one position all the time. She oughta have different people to take– Switch with her. I– uh, sure I’m sure, the rich must die a miserable death. Anybody must be miserable to be a J. Paul Getty and do the kind of shit that he did. Put pay telephones in his house, and then one time have a heart attack, ‘cause he can’t get a goddamn dime to make a long distance call, and lost three million dollars, I remember, three million dollars, on the market someplace, ‘cause he didn’t have a fucking dime to use the telephone. Now that’s miserable and stupid. And to fight with his own son [J. Paul Getty, Jr.] over an inheritance, and then they send his grandson [J. Paul Getty III] – When they kidnap him, they sent his ear, and he’s so miserably cruel. (calls out) He’s so miserably cruel, to wake you up there, dear. Young woman. Don’t you sleep on me. (Reverts to former tone) So miserably cruel that they sent him his ear, and he refuses to give a goddamn dime. But he died alone. They said when he died in the hospital, nobody visited him. Five days in the hospital, or whatever it was, nobody visited him. Nobody liked him, and he left no legacy but pain. However, the working class, as I said here, you can look around and find some in this working class that have suffered more than you. I’m sure when you think of the babies that are being beat to death by our US soldiers, by our tax dollars, (call out) I would think, love– (Pause) You’re so conscious of cold, aren’t you, a little rain. Some of you just all shuffled around, (unintelligible) get a little drop on you. (Tsks) This breeze feels good, if you’ll think it so.

Crowd: Murmurs.

Jones: It’s the coolest breeze we’ve had, but it’s good for you. Maybe it’ll blow some of that dust out of our brains. I– I– I really don’t know how you can possibly imagine how your life is so bad, when you think of Obleeku’s child being beat for two days, till the child, six years old, finally can’t resist anymore and takes the wire that the US officers put in their– uh, his little hands, tightens it around the ball of his daddy’s scrotum, and pulls and pulls, till the ball comes off. I don’t think you’re that bad off tonight. I really think if you kept that in your mind, you’d feel less miserable. You oughtna be complaining. And you that let them complain, you’re as bad. You sit and listen to their chitter chatter and their bullshit, you oughta stop it. In your dorms and your cottages, you oughta stop it. Hm?

Crowd: Right.

Jones: You think I don’t know you. One back there at the back, you think I don’t know you. Hell, your wife oughta report you all the time, but she’s passive. She– she doesn’t have any spine. And if somebody else come along uh, when you get a little– little older and a little more wiltered and wilted, shit, she’ll drop you like an old dirty dish rag. You don’t develop some character in your companion, they aren’t going to stay with you. You wanted to be a slave and passive and put up with your bullshit, okay. One day you’re going to regret it. ‘Cause if you let them develop their honesty and integrity, and let them speak their mind, uh, then– uh, then and then alone will you have a companion. Right now all you’ve got is some people enduring you. They want to cut your throat, but they endure you. And some would cut your throat. I know. They send me notes, they’d cut your goddamn throat, but they[‘re] afraid the reflection on the community. Hm-mm.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Oh, yes, I’m not asking you to say an amen out there, because I know husbands and wives, that’d get you in trouble, but I know what I’m talking about. I get lots of notes every day. Okay, zero. I don’t know what more I can say to you, honey, then just think of the millions of babies around the world. Think of those in Thailand that were pushed out by American– American-aided and American– often American-navigated craft, pushed out to sea to drown and to die out in the open seas. Thousands of them this past week. Think of the Hai– Haitians, Haitians or whatever (stumbles over words)– whatever the word. Think of them. Think of them that’re being put out of the United States tonight. Then put– They were coming in on rafts and refused to be given opportunity and (voice rises) anybody else can come on a raft. Shit, they take in somebody from fascist country every day. (voice rises) Run them in there, honey, you can come home when communism frees the people. They’ve taken all the dirty pigs from fascism. But honey, don’t you come from a fascist dictatorship and don’t be black. America isn’t the land of opportunity, unless you come filled with all of its capitalist shit. (Calms) And even now, they’re turning those down, the Vietnamese that fought their war and was good little– little Uncle Tommies, good little Aunt Janies, they won’t give them any refuge, and they’re dying out in the Pacific on their way to try to find sanctuary in Australia. You’ll find somebody to make it– uh, that’s got it worst than you. I don’t know what to do to help you make a zero. I don’t know what to do with some of you people, who think you have a right. Goddamn nervy bunch of people. They get in my crate and steal my pants. Nervy. You got some nervy people here.

Voices in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: I want one pair of uh, old coveralls, you know to work– work pants. They get– They don’t give a shit who they steal. Nervy people. So why do you let them do it, Father? If we get an internal struggle– We’re on the battle with the outside right now. Who got time to get– We’ll– we’ll keep most of it, I’m– I’m pretty purist. I keep most things cleaned up. If it gets anyway too far out of line, I’ll get them. But I gotta depend on inspection committees, and shit, I don’t know. You– you going to have to get more ingenious and finding places to look for it. Look under the house, look every goddamn place you can find, look uh– go out in the outer bushes sometimes. Hm-mm. These folks are clever. Capitalism is a clever creature, and it doesn’t die easy. I don’t know how anybody can help but see zero, though, just watch me. How I tenderly plan for the well-being of all our babies and our seniors. I was ready to go off to war, but I didn’t want anyone left to be taken and tortured. Most of you were here, goddammit, two straight nights and straight days of that shit.

Crowd: Stirs.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: When we got ready to die as a parlor game. I just love it, don’t you? So beautiful. Shit. I’d rather die a thousand times than talk about it. Goddamn talk– talkathons on death, I’m sick of ‘em. But you gotta talk every time because every time you’ll think it was something else that you didn’t think of the time before. Everybody– Never have a perfect plan. You gotta keep reasoning, come reason together. Some of you– Sure are glad, though, one thing went through it. One old fucker out there, running around, gonna leave his wife and everything, sleeping right now. Was going to leave his wife and everything, going to try to find a way to get in the bush. He didn’t give a shit that his wife died. He didn’t want to get under this pavilion, (draws out word) no way. You think I don’t know your ass, honey. And shit, an old fool like you, you wouldn’t last three years, if you’da lived, if you’da made it, and the fucking snake woulda bit your ass, just like uh– just like uh, Bernice, I love to work with her in the– in the bucket brigade. She’s so funny, Bernice Thomas, she got to laughin’ and I got to laughin’, and she said that was so goddamn funny, Patty and Rheaviana [Beam] and Tommy [most likely Bogue]. Tommy said I will, by God, when– I’d be glad when I’m a senior citizen.

Crowd: Scattered laughter.

Jones: I can just see him dealing with those two women. They’re telling him what to do. He says, by God, when do I– it’ll be good, or whatever he said, I don’t know how he said it. Bernice remembers it just exactly the way it was. And then that fucking business about the snake and Rheaviana says (excitedly) there’s– there’s a snake. Tommy says, don’t worry about it, don’t worry about it. You don’t have to worry. Three hours later, you’ll be dead.

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: I just love his spirit. He’s got such a passive hostility.

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: Tommy’s got it made. You better hope his cutlass is not too sharp.

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: (laughs) (tape edit) You see. You got those old gals movin’ in the cassava fields this time. Me– Uh, Patty was out there in the cassava fields, that somebody told me. Yeah, keep at them, uh, boys, you’ll get to moving so fast, that you’ll– you get to marketeers in the field with you. Hm? She’s out in the field today. Works an honor, isn’t it?

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: And Tommy funny. When’ll I get to be a senior citizen so I can give orders?

Voice in Crowd: Laughs.

Jones: That’s sweet. (pause)

Voice in Crowd: (too low)

Jones: (laughs) What’s that? Say it louder. You– Nobody could hear you back there.

Voice in Crowd: (too low)

Jones: Where’s the microphone? Can’t you give her a microphone? (unintelligible word)

(Mike snaps on)

Patty: Tommy– When he, you know, gettin’ rude– tryin’ to tell him the right thing to do, of course all the time. (laughs) And he gets–

Jones: Where is Tommy? Where’s Tommy? Where’s Tommy at?

Patty: Where is Tommy?

Jones: Get over here and don’t let them do this to you, Tommy.

Crowd: Laughs.

Patty: He calls me mom out there.

Jones: Oh. Thomas.

Patty: His eyes get about four– four feet round, he’ll say, fuck you, fuck this, fuck– I’m through. You old women. Someday I can be boss. Goodbye– fuck– We– we sit down and wait, you know.

Jones: (laughs) He’s so–

(tape edit)

Patty: He uh, said he wasn’t going to give him the cassava, and this and that shit, you know, I said– and in Guyana, they hate to be called a robber. ‘Cause they can’t stand to be called robber or cheat. And I said (laughs) you, Mr. Melvin, are a robber and a cheat, and I said I– we personally know Dr. [Ptolemy] Reid, I said, tomorrow

Jones: (laughs)

Patty:I will make a trip to Dr. Reid to Georgetown. I said your name is– is going to be read through Guyana as Mr. Melvin, robber and cheat of the people. And–

Crowd: Stirs.

Patty: And he said, well– he said, tell ‘em, I– I said they’re going in tomorrow, and they’re going to get the cassava, whether you’re there– whether you stand to the side, however you want to do it, they’re going to get cassava. So he brings– The next day, he brings– Oh, then Rheaviana and I get into this fight, which Tommy thought we staged, and we didn’t (laughs) but we–

Jones: (laughs)

Patty: We get into this giant row, and I told her to come away, and one thing led to another and we rode home, and she says– screamed out, “Fucker! Fucking old Melvin, he’s about shit, he isn’t sure what he heard.”

Crowd: Laughter.

Patty: And he’s screaming at me, he said you’re an intolerable female, intolerable. He said, you’re vexing me. I said, I’m going to vex you before this night’s over. So she starts spreading her sleeping bag, getting all of her shit, and trailing down into the jungle in the middle of the night down the railroad tracks.

Jones: (laughs)

Patty: And I’m hollering, Tommy, you know she can’t go down there by herself, and I’m walking out behind her, and Sebastian [McMurry] said, this is too much, this is a jungle. You know there are tigers out there in (unintelligible word).

Jones: What Sebastian say? What Sebastian say?

Patty: Sebastian, you know– (unintelligible). He said (unintelligible word) I said, Sebastian walk. Sebastian, give her a karate chop and get her ass back in–

Jones: (laughs)

Patty: And she– We can’t even– We can’t even see her goddamn ass, and we’re flashing the light. And I said, is that her? I said, don’t tell her–

Jones: (laughs)

Patty: I’m here ‘cause she’s mad at me. Sebastian said, Rheaviana, Rheaviana. She said, what? He said–

Jones: (laughs)

Patty: We– we– we– and I’m hollering, Tommy, you better come on, Tommy, you better hurry up. Tommy, get your (unintelligible word). We walked down there, and she’s sitting on a railroad track (unintelligible word) Rheaviana, what are you doing? I said, now come on and get back. And she said, I’m pissing and I’m thinking.

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: (laughs)

Patty: Sebastian– Sebastian said, you two are a trip, so we wait and pretty soon here comes old Melvin, pit-potting it down there. (makes noises) He said Rheaviana– Rheaviana and Patty left.

Jones: (laughs)

Patty: And the next day the old son-of-a-bitch come carrying our cassava (unintelligible word) coming over, offering us any goddamn thing we want. He brings a little Amerindian now– down in– Carib Indian– and he says, tell them, George, I gave ‘em free. Patty, tell ‘em, I gave ‘em free. I don’t want to be bad Mr. Melvin through the community.

Jones: (laughs) (Pause) That’s interesting. That is interesting. You got ‘em free, and they said very good sticks and that was a tasty dish of cassava tonight, which I thought about starving babies when I ate it. That makes you appreciate it more, hm? Any other qu– questions. We need to have some questions. We need to get some understanding. Occasionally we’re getting too far away from principle, we have to do it. Shift, please. (pause)

Patty: Several tigers. There’s a black cat, the 14-foot (unintelligible word, sounds like “turtle”) tiger, there’s some other tigers. I don’t know uh, the names of all of them but uh, he said that last week– Melvin said last week that a man was eaten by a tiger, and the– and the tiger ate him– found (unintelligible word) when they cut into the cutlass of the– of the man. But they ate– he ate the man, (unintelligible word) said.

Jones: Hm-mm. They’ll do it and yet, they never come in our property, and the snakes don’t bother us, we’ve never been bitten in all the years we’ve been here. We never had a bite.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: And they stepped on them, and the snakes have died. All kinds of marvelous things that have happened. Stay on your land, and probably some people try to invade it, they get bit. (Pause) Next question. Come on, ask me some question about politics, history and practice. Yes, restroom, restroom. Yes, Jack?

Jack: With his Menshevik politics, how he would have fared as a leader? I think it– I feel they woulda really screwed things up badly, I’d like to hear more about that in detail.

Jones: I think I– I think I went over that subject. If you want to add to it, you may. You can add to it. I think I already explained it, he was a– his romanticism and his idealism and his internationalism uh, would’ve uh, been uh– would not have been tolerated by the capitalist powers, and he would’ve been put down.

Jack: Well, I was referring to the fact that he would’ve played to the bourgeoisie too much.

Jones: (Tsks) It depends upon who you’re wr– reading in the writing. I uh– it’s possible. Why, you think he uh, he would’ve incl– included– he would’ve encouraged too much democratization uh, too soon.

Jack: Oh, I– I think that in trying to gain his purpose, he would’ve uh– no I– (unintelligible word) (Pause) No, I just feel he would’ve uh, gone too much uh– cooperated too much with the people with money and the uh– you know, the (unintelligible word).

Jones: What gives you– What gives you the foundation for that?

Jack: Uh, all I’m (unintelligible word) There was a writer who uh, I– I read uh, one of the books we have here, it gives a life history of [Leon] Trotsky and it uh, told about him uh, being a leader of the Menshevik which were the ones who cooperated too much with the uh, bourgeoisie–

Jones: He was not the– he was not the leader of the Mensheviks, but he may have been a Menshevik. I don’t know at one point at time. I’m not that familiar with all of his uh, earlier history, but he was not– The old president of the Mensheviks [Fyodor Dan] died in the United States. (Pause) I didn’t think he was a– a rogue in that sense, I think he was just too idealistic. That’s how I would depict him, but if you have some documentation or something you’ve read, I would be more than happy to have it put forth. Anyway I– I don’t think that his concept of starting international revolutions would have worked, no more than if we start some shit to try to take over Port– Port Kaituma. I don’t think we’d be tolerated half an hour. Better build here and set an example. We’ll win people by example. Produce, so we can bring people in. Then we produce adequately, we can build the place where people will uh, find uh, enough pleasure. Sure, there’s room for pleasure. I don’t need it. But uh– like we’re now making in the last meet– steering committee, and we thought of how to build a– build a uh, lake. Well, that’s an ideal thing for fishing, for life. It’s an ideal thing. There’s a lot of problems with it, but if we produce enough, we can override the problems and turn some wealth and uh, our wealth of our production and build such that it could be a source of fishing, swimming, boating, a number of things. Enormous source of food supply. (Pause) Go ahead. Go ahead. You get another comments, I have no problem. I d– I agree with you in fact that Trotsky would not have been a good successor. I think the Soviet Revolution would’ve failed– would’ve failed. My own personal opinion. Who can know? He did– (laughs) didn’t succeed. It’s easy to theorize about things that didn’t happen. Yes.

Male1: (starts inaudible) able to continue the publication of Ishkra. He was abroad for quite some time, and even– even his editorial staff, you know, had split and, you know, had decided to go a different way from him. How did– how did he–

Jones: Are you familiar? I’m not– I’m not personally familiar. I’m familiar with a number of years he spent in exile in Switzerland and the support. I– I don’t happen to recall of that particular chapter.

Male2: That’s what [Josef] Stalin–

Jones: Feel free to speak up.

Male2: Dad, that was why Stalin was so uh, so powerful and why– why he was able to run everything, because while everybody else was in exile, he was the only one that he– he was– he was smart, he– he stayed in– he stayed in– he– he kept publishing the papers, he kept everything organized, and he was one of the last ones to get arrested and go into exile. And then he got out and– and had everything set up again when everybody else came back. And so he kept all that stuff going and had everything– he had all the uh– the underground organized, he had all the secret police organized, he had all the intelligence organized, and then during the war, when Trotsky had to be out on the front trying to look good, uh, Stalin was in the back doing all the– the shitty paperwork and processing the orders–

Jones: He was a worker. He was indeed the worker.

Male2: And uh, so that– so that when uh– when it came time to take over the party he– he– he had been running the party for years, and that’s why– that’s who did it.

Jones: I didn’t know about the paper, but I know the only facts you’re saying sound very, very familiar to me.

Male3: (unintelligible beginning) party.

Jones: There was no– there was no split under Len– Lenin. No, no there was no split– uh, Lenin was uh, in very ill health, and uh, Stalin– There was an internal struggle, there was an internal struggle that uh, finally– It was even suggested that forces around Stalin killed Lenin. I doubt that, but I– I can’t say one way or the other about that. However, I– I am uh, assured of– of this, that uh, no– there wasn’t two– uh, you’re– you’re talking about a major party break.

Male3: (unintelligible)

Jones: No, that’s before, that’s before. Menshevik government was a liberal social democrat government before the Soviet uh, takeov– takeover. And it just be– became decadent, and, like all social democracies, it orienting to capitalism and ba– it had terrible– terribly strong economical ties with the Western– the Western world and uh, Lenin sort of thrust himself on it, took over the minority. He took over the minority government and uh, established a– a truly uh, communist or a socialist government. It’s a fluke accident, so shit, you know, Christ, look at the accidents of history. Think, well, we’re never going to make it. You never know, accidents of history. Damn shell went off, it was one of the attacks on Petrograd, goddamn soldiers (stumbles over words) made a misfire, somebody got drunk and hit the fucking cannon, the cannon went off and landed right in the middle of the ear– the– the uh, (chuckles) the palace (chuckles) and the soldiers started running, ‘cause they thought the goddamn Russians– the Red– the Red army, uh, the red guerrillas uh, had taken over. A lot of accidents in all this shit. One of you may swing the cutlass that does the job. You never know. Maybe you’ll invent something back in the machine shop that’ll make the difference or elsewhere, where we’re working fastly on all kinds of ideas. Now with Trotsky and uh, uh, Stalin had a terrible struggle, and Stalin uh, just said Lenin was not fond of him being a successor, but he was too power driven. But uh, I– I don’t– I don’t agree necessarily with that, but we only have a lot of speculations of people who have one point of view or another. They’re partisan in what they’re trying to convey. I do– I– I simply say we would’ve never seen communism the scale it is today, even with all the errors of nationalism, and nationalism is going to be– it’s there. Who in the hell is fond of China’s nationalism? Who’s fond of it? Who likes a– a nationalism like China has, but they’ve got a tremendous internal policy of– of cooperation and socialism and complete sharing. Everybody lives in cooperatives, an ideal medical program. And in time those people will get back to their– their perspective. They– They’ve built too wonderful a society not to get back. There’s no personal wealth in the hands of leadership. There’s a tremendous economic sharing internally. The– The Chinese, though, have that mutual strife with the Soviets, the Russians. They’ve been along the border for years, and Russia is a white– it’s a white– uh, bl– you know, white colored thing. It’s a racial thing. And all people go through nationalistic feelings. I’ve seen in Peoples Temple, Los Angeles have a sense of uh, togetherness against San Francisco, you know. Los Angeles and Redwood Valley and territoriality instincts, it’s– it’s everywhere. You used to see it. Remember, you– you’d see it.

Voice in crowd: Right.

Jones: People come to the various places, you’d feel out of place, you weren’t too welcome, little cities uh, and I– I don’t like it, but animals are that way and the territoriality– uh, the territoriality instinct of the animal. You get a goddamn uh, eagle, he– he designs by nature where in the hell his– uh, where his uh, territory is and if you move one goddamn square– you move an inch off of it– off his territory, he’ll kill the next eagle, or he’ll fight till the death. That doesn’t die easily in the human species. The unfortunate thing in the communist revolution, we had a fucking nuclear age. All thing we didn’t need was nuclear age. Otherwise you’d see a whole world of communism today. But the masterminds of capitalist exploitation, their mass technology, they built these damn bombs, and they’ve known how to use them and threaten and divide and conquer, and a great– a great uh– Nothing like somebody that’s senile and incapable, using their power wrongly. What the hell you going to do, if you have some crazy in here with a bomb right now, of nitroglycerin. We’re going to deal kind of slowly with him. That’s what USA is in the eyes of the world, and at times it caused Russia to take policies that were contrary to what China felt was uh, in the interest of international development, and that created more nationalistic tendencies on the part of the Chinese. It’s a– it’s a bad– it’s a bad ball game to be in a– in a nuclear age trying to have– develop revolution. And undoubtedly, we’ll have damn nuclear war before we win the revolution. It’s undoubtedly so. The Chinese base their concept on that. That’s their whole concept. Let the USSR and the USA fight it out. Build a– build a strong internal development. Take care of the Chinese, keep your resources, because China will be the one who will lead the revolution. I can’t take that kind of pragmatism. I can identify with it, ‘cause in a sense we have to do some of it here. Chinese certainly have taken care of their people to a magnificent degree, building underground shelters, knowing the nuclear war is coming and underground shelters, underground hospitals, and to the degree the underground shelters reach out 100 miles into the hinterland. It’s a– it’s a very amazing thing the Chinese have done for their people, and they feel that the USSR and the USA represent two superpowers, and that they’re both white, and that they will indeed they say uh, develop megalomania, and– and uh, they’re going to be– they’re going to destroy each other. And there’re some Chinese theoreticians that say, well, it’s just a matter of fact that there’re going to be a nuclear war, and we better not get involved in making one power greater than the other, because we’ll ex– we’ll– we’ll– we’ll shake the balance of power and bring about the nuclear war uh, sooner. I can’t buy that shit. I can’t buy it, but I can identify with it. I can understand it. I still think China will come to their senses in time. And if there was a nuclear war, I think she’ll be quiet capable of leading uh, a generation of tomorrow because she’s building a tremendous society at home. And she– in Tibet, that’s been annexed by China, has been uh, very sparely communized. And any uh, any government working with China has uh, certainly has uh, received uh, (tsks) technical assistance and aid, but not to the degree that the Soviet Union does. The Soviet Union’s a liberator. And I– I don’t know all their motives, I can’t pretend to know all their motives, but I do know that where Angola needed independence, and they were living in abject slavery under the Portuguese regime that was imposed upon ‘em by US money, as well other corporate monopoly capitalist, it was Russia that put the money in the– the fighting force of the Cuban soldiers that drove back the hordes of Portuguese imperialists and freed it. It was the Russian money and technically that’s freeing Mozambique. It was Russian money and Cuban forces that’s freeing Ethiopia tonight. So I can’t buy racism. I can’t buy it. I think the Soviets uh– Certainly people say they’re the most– uh, most racist people on earth. I’m– I’m sure there’re some racist people in the Soviet Union, they’re white, but they’re at least helping black people get their freedom, and that– that speaks pretty well to me. Doesn’t it to you?

Voices in Crowd: (Agree)

Jones: You can’t– you can’t develop all your idealism, you can’t put it in practice. You know it’s wonderful. Say, well, I’m idealistic. Somebody asked me last night, what do we think about this government uh, dealing with uh, USA. What the hell is this government to do but to deal with the USA? What can it do? You crazy old man, USA’s got a Monroe Doctrine in theory, even though the law has been supposedly long since our– it’s antediluvian and– and uh, archaic but still in theory the USA lives by it. They live by the Monroe Doctrine. We won’t let anything happen in our sphere. Everyone knows geopolitics. Every big power has its sphere of influence. Now here’s a little socialist country sitting in the middle of South America, the only socialist nation, unless Bolivia wins and they’re in a m– midst of a revolution. I hope to hell that we get a few more, then that’ll make it easier for us. Also the in– incoming introduction of the Haitian– Haitians uh, fleeing from the dictatorship that the Guyanese are going to take in, that’ll make it easier for us, because then they’ll be able to make a– a national policy about refugees. Right now there’s only one bunch of refugees in this country. We’re the only fugitives. We’re fugitives from capitalism, that’s certain, not fugitives from justice. But we’re the only refugees here. That makes it very, very difficult. But if you get the Haitians here, and us here, then they can develop some political say. Now (calls out) hey! These people are refugees, and your government back there in Haiti may want them for something, and the USA may want them for something, but there’re political uh, uh, reasons and they’re uh, given asylum here, and so all your goddamn laws don’t apply to them. Go to hell. Now that’s one of the theories I think that foreign minister’s [Rashleigh Jackson, but could be referring to Reid] operating on. And he– he– he’s trying, and I think that uh, it’s easy– We– we know what we got to have to live by. And if we die, it won’t necessarily make me an enemy of his, because he did do something very brave and uh, kicked the Stoens [Tim and Grace Stoen] out, and had them on the way to the airplane today. And some little perfunctory – so he says – tonight, I didn’t get all, I didn’t get any more copy about it, but somebody in his goddamn office backed down, and uh, when the USA put a bunch of s– Congress pressure on them, right wing, ‘cause USA’s going fascist, racist. And then Stoen’s got connections now, he’s in the CIA. They’re going to use him, till they set him up. They know– he oughta know, if he’s got an ounce of sense, the white man is dummy. He don’t have much sense, they oughta– Stoen oughta know the longer he stays here, the longer he plays with his life. (Pause) And he don’t give a shit that– that man using him. The conspirators are using him. That conspiracy using him doesn’t give a goddamn what happens to Tim Stoen. And Tim Stoen is so impassioned with his uh, uh, wanting a Montgomery suite. And he’s got a Montgomery office that somebody paid for, and he didn’t have a goddamn dime. And he’s got a plush office on Montgomery Street – (cries out) Wake up! – in the financial sector. He got it off of money trying to sell us out, but they had him on the way to the airport today. I said, well (stumbles over words) unfortunate, somebody got to do awful (unintelligible word), it’s terrible, they didn’t throw him out. Well, you know why they didn’t throw him out? United States threatened all the Guyanese that were having legal actions in the United States to be throwed out. (pause) That still doesn’t mean we lost Dana [Truss], it doesn’t mean we’ve lost John [Victor Stoen]. Eventually, if the worst came to worst, we’re not going to lose them.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Because I will make moves that will– (Laughs) What, are they going to come? They’re going to come in here and get us? Uh, where’re they going to be? They’re going to search all the fucking jungle? Some of you people oughta develop hunting skills, so we can do everything short of a war. We don’t have a war again. We damn near had two wars. We don’t want a war. Hell, you can put people out there, we can develop skills. (stumbles over words) find those children in seven years. And they’re going to arrest me? I– I wa– I don’t know about that. I’m hesitant to believe that this country, if we stay strong, a thousand strong. If you leave, you’ll be the killers. We’ll hunt you out. Anybody that betrays and leaves, you weakens us.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: We’ll hunt you out. They’ll be somebody left alive that’ll hunt you out, but as long as we remain a thousand strong and produce here, I’m hesitant to believe – and I’m a very cynical person – I’m hesitant to believe they’re going to send somebody in here to arrest me. I’m hesitant to believe they’re going to come in and pick the wife of my coordinator uh, that are now uh, for another child, they’re going to pick her and take her up and put her up in a paddy wagon. If they try it, they absolutely have a sense that we’re a– a solidified people. Shit, you don’t come across a– two continents without being in some solidarity.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: And there’s a lot of uh– legal things, legal maneuvers around this shit. In the court process, this is political, now– and that was brave. That was brave. That was a brave action, and uh, in spite of hell, if we have to die tomorrow, that was a brave action to kick Stoen’s ass out.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Had no reason, he hadn’t broken no law, he’d done nothing, and they kicked his ass, he was almost to the airport, till the United States white right wing racist pressure came down and said no, no, no, no. And somebody– he’s sick, he’s sick. Always the luck of the stars. Ain’t no God. He’s sick in bed and home, so somebody in the Foreign Office bows to it, and he acts like he’s in utter surprise. It’s just possible, he was. Just surprise– just possible somebody in his age– his own office would sell out. Maybe his acting uh, leader– Oh, what’s going to happen to us, we don’t have any Foreign Minister? Shit, what the hell does it matter? There’re babies dying in uh– We can fight.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: They’re dying in Mozambique. What uh– what we supposed to expect? Everybody gets nervous when Dr. Reid’s sick and this and that. So what? What we exp– we supposed to be guaranteed, that we’re going to have a lovely country like this and not have to struggle for it?

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: All this 30 miles of land, and now they’re gonna have to pay a price?

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: The shit you talking about. We’ve been paying a price all of our life. We’ll pay it till the day we go.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: And don’t expect it. It’s beautiful. You say, what are you doing it for? What are you doing it for? Why you do it? Take a walk with me some day. Walk through the rice tent. Hear some of those mothers who suffered all their days. Look at Gertrude Nailor, and hadn’t got one of her children here, although it looks promising, we may have a way to get her here in time. But Gertrude doesn’t know it. Gertrude doesn’t know it. Gertrude doesn’t know a thing about it. Every day I meet Gertrude, little tears’ll come in her eyes, and she’ll say, I don’t what– What is your phrase you’ll say to me. Use your standard phrase. What is it Gertrude says to me?

Nailor: Oh, I say, thank you, Father, for bringing me to the Promised Land.

Jones: And she’ll say every day but– the little words like that. And she’ll– but she’ll say it with meaning and with emotion. And people say, thank you for giving me freedom, up and down through the rice tents, older black people that’ve suffered all their goddamn life, fucked up, fucked over, put down. Here they can walk without somebody staring at ‘em or ordering them around, saying do this, and they have to say, yes sir, no sir. Now, if one black person gets a chance– This is a resort for a senior. For a senior, this is a resort.

Voices in Crowd: That’s right, that’s right.

Jones: This is a goddamn resort. You don’t get weather like this. This is ideal weather.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Best weather in the world. A senior that’s been in a goddamn slum– You look where some of our people had to live in back there. Say, it’s too crowded here. You assholes, you unthankful assholes, you oughta seen how some of ‘em were living. How they had to live. How we were crushed up to make ends meet, even later in our communes. How we had to go through the cold and the drudgery and the goddamn hate and the threats of our buildings being burned down, and they tried to burn down one of our senior citizen homes. Had that son of a bitch ablaze, all the back side of it. Burned our church down, and then some of these people lived in abject poverty. Lived in fear to come out of their doors. They couldn’t come out of their doors. Now one day of this for a black senior, is worth our sacrifice–

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Then you look at these children, you look at these babies, playing out here, and their bravery, and some of you assholes feeling sorry for yourself. Then somebody like Isaac [Rhodes] says, we’re going to win, Dad. Then he stops and he’s a little realistic. What kind of strong kids we’re building. We’re going to win, but he says, even if we don’t, if we die, we’ll win.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: If we die, we can’t lose, he said.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Shit. Such wisdom. He went on playin’ down the road. Something had to be behind his brain talkin’ like that. He meant that (stumbles over words) what we’re doing is worth dying for. Somebody comes in here, their first day, first day, Mitchells. I understood uh, one of them was telling me, say, well, we found something to die for, one of them said. Some of you come over here (imitates voice) well, we don’t got enough meat.

Crowd: Stirs.

Jones: (Normal tone) Well, we always had chicken. And unfortunately we didn’t make our population plans, and we couldn’t, and we had a goddamn war, honey. It takes a little while, but some people didn’t (unintelligible word) healed, been put out of jail, been healed of cancer and blindness. Well (imitates dithering) I don’t have this, I don’t have that, when in the hell am I going to get this? I don’t have enough toothpaste. (Calms) Well, why don’t you do like that old fucker they’d been dealing with, uh, I told you about last night, take his finger in the ashes and brushes his teeth. And he got all of his teeth in his late 70s. Doing pretty well after uh, workin’ every day. You people are so crippled by– (angry) the old fucker settin’ over there sleep now, the ole lazy fucker. Ain’t done a shit ass bit of work, (unintelligible word) about the third day, honey, you better get to work. (Pause) They all know you, but you– you there– it ain’t me. That’s how you got your goddamn bald head, because so many things slid over it.

Crowd: Mixed laughter.

Jones: (shouts) And it ain’t a white bald head, it’s a black bald head.

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: And it’s setting on the right side on the end.

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: Up yours. (Pause) Now if they can’t figure that out, you’re– you’re really having a hard time. And if you don’t figure it out in a nice little– n– nice general way like this, how in the world would anybody know who I’m talking about. If you don’t figure it out now on Thursday, you’ll find your ass (unintelligible word) figured it out. No, no what is this, this is uh– this is Saturday. Tuesday, by Tuesday, you’ll find it, ‘cause when we come up tomorrow and I hear no work, which it’s a half day tomorrow, because we don’t take full days till we get our people. And we quit doing it anyway. Lot of people oughta quit taking some of these goddamn breaks they’re taking, all miserable breaks. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. I don’t even know what a break is. (unintelligible word) Some of the coordinators, leaders, they don’t know– crew, they don’t know what a break is. (imitates) Gotta have my break. What about people that are breaking under the pressure back there? Tell me over the radio, I may never see you, Dad, but I love you. Workin’ over there, puttin’ their money, and don’t want to come in. Don’t want to come, till the last one’s here. You think about them, and you won’t complain so much.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: But as I said, the legal process of this country, we could dodge ball. They can do a lot of things in the courts and can’t be accused of showing favoritism to Jim Jones and his people. Appeals– We can think up legal maneuvers. Lots of things keep them off our back. But if that didn’t work for several years, hell, we’ll have John to 17 and Dana to 17 by that time. You understand what I’m talking about? Look how we did with the Olivers [Bruce and William]. Run their ass all around, and got ‘em married. Shit, he didn’t know he was going to marry. We figure, you gonna get married, get– get this one, get this one, (Claps hands once) that into Georgetown, we got ‘em married. Yeah, we got some flack in this country. You’re not supposed to be able to marry anybody without the consent of their parents wh– unless they’re 18. We got them married, didn’t we? Twice we got them married.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Come after Gieg. (Claps hands once) What? We get Cliff? who’s going to marry Cliff? (Claps hands) Up, up we go. Married.

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: So they can’t move against Cliff. Shit (stumbles over words) and it took an act of the Supreme Justice [Sir Harold Bollers] to do that. It’s not all dead. Everybody going around, wiltered today. What– if it’s all dead, hell, it’s been worth it.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: You live with adventure. Some of you never knew what an adventure was.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: That’s right. You feel it’s worth it, (unintelligible name)? I’m sure if she feels it’s worth it, some of the rest of you ought to. Mother had to abandon her because of white man’s racism. Killed by a white man, daddy killed by whites in Ukiah, California. Her children had to lose– uh, see the uh– her husbands come home and brag about white women in her face, because that was his uh, means of status. If she think it’s worth it, and she’s a young woman, some of you oughta think it’s worth it out there.

Crowd: Yeah (Applause)

(Tape edit)

Jones: Look at these babies playing and they’re free. And in San Francisco, it’s hard to see ‘em smile.

Voices in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: (more deliberate) Hard to see them smile. Yeah, yeah, they play outside in the back of that San Francisco Temple, but they didn’t have that– They was just– It wasn’t in it. Acting out, throwing rocks, burying each other. Who’s buried anybody here, huh? You remember how many incidents we had? How many times have we had anybody been rocked here? Been a long time since somebody been rocked here. And how many times have we had it, somebody always hitting somebody in the eye, hitting them over the head.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: All kinds of shit that tried on them. Buried one of them alive. You remember?

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Right out behind the San Francisco Temple. One day of children in the position like this. Say, our children can’t take it. Honey, it ain’t the children’s having trouble. It’s some of you old fuckers is having trouble.

Crowd: Yeah (Applause)

Jones: One of our teachers say I– I– we– we– our children can’t stand it. Honey and you were shaking. Children, I haven’t seen no ch– child going around (Pants) My God, boy, (unintelligible word) crisis in a war. Fuckers. I’m telling you. Some old fucker back there, married to his wife for years, trying to get out of here any way he can get out of here. He didn’t care about his wife. (imitates woman) She say, oh, my husband love me. Hell, if he loved you honey, he coulda found– if he coulda found a subway, his ass woulda forgot you.

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: (Short laugh) Yes, yes. (pause) Can deal with it. And as I said, we got a (draws out word) lot of maneuvers. We can pull a lot of things off. Give us– Every day is another day that we have more time to plan. Say, what you mean? Right now, I don’t know what I mean. I got some folks doing some plannin’ right now that are not here. Give us a few more days, and they’re gonna raise a lot of hell.

Voice in Crowd: All Right.

Jones: Raise a muchum muchum wampon muchum muchum smokum.

Crowd: Yeah.

Jones: Smokum our enemies.

Voice in Crowd: All Right.

Jones: Get some Indian and nigger power and Mau Mau power, yeah (Grunts) (Tsks) We– we– (laughs)

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: It’s hard to fight a war if you got the shits.

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: I’m trying stuff on me that gives you the perpetual shits. And if it gives everybody the shits like it gives me, honey, we give an army the shits. How you going to fight a war with the shits?

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: (shouts) Hey, and I’ve got something stronger than that. Better be good. (Pause) You didn’t get it, I ain’t going over it twice.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: (chuckles) We’re fighting on all fronts, aren’t we, babies.

Crowd: (Calls out)

Jones: But I say, it’s been good to be here. Well– what– what other people– where in the hell would we have a whole government kick somebody out, and have to fight with the United States government over it? United States government warned him not to do it in the first place. And they tried to take ‘em, they– they had them out of a hotel room, and even now the United States can only get uh, five more days. That’s what they’ve got. They’re supposed to have uh, endless right to increase their visa on and on. We even got the US Consul, the fucking hypocrite, that was in here, he a fucking hypocrite. Smiling ass, teethy, hypoc– I got your checks. He played hell to get the checks. I got a book full of letters, carbon copies, that’ll show you who got the checks. Heads of black leader movements and people I lean on. And we had to practically stand on some of their asses to get them to write. Oh, you’ll write. Oh yes sir, yes sir, we’ll write one right now. Here’s the letter. Here’s the paper. Write. Andy Silver stood over about eight of them. You come on, right now. Write. Andy saying back there, one of them good nigger Jews.

Voice in Crowd: Right.

Jones: Yeah, we’ll write you. Fuck you (stumbles over words) to let you– let you write you. Ain’t nobody going to write you, they tell you, write you, we– right now.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: That’s what moved those checks. It wasn’t nothin’ else moved those checks. That little old white silly ass son of a bitch. He didn’t do anything but cart him out here. They’da had all of our checks blocked, and we got 68 of them loose. That prick didn’t do anything. Fuck him. But he got– he– he didn’t think we knew him his tricks, but we on to his tricks. What the old devils get together. Olivers [Howard and Beverly] trying to– tried to kill me and then tried to kill Momma [Marceline Jones]. Your momma, your good momma. But she didn’t get killed either. She’s out of their clutches now. She’s on her way here coming around. Some place. She isn’t in the– she isn’t in San Francisco.

Crowd: Applause.

Jones: Yeah, all right. And she didn’t want to– She wanted to stay there. And obviously I must have great love, and I don’t have any affair going on here, or I wouldn’t bring my wife, would I?

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: (chuckles) Olivers get together, the parents get together, with mobsters like the Stoens. Crooked ass white prejudiced people and the Ku Klux Klan and black people, no pride get together, (claps hands once) and play into the hands of our class enemy. And they tried all kinds of shit on us, honeys. They were delude [deluged] with phone calls, and old Stoen stayed there in the hotel, and callin’ the judge, acting like they were calls from the United States, and he had others work with him. But they still lonely at night. Grace out there talkin’. Say, how do you know? We got ‘em watching them. Shanda [Oliver] watchin’ their ass night and day. If anything goes wrong, Grace is going to die in the worst way.

Voice in Crowd: All right.

Jones: We’re going to use Grace’s jawbone of her ass to kill Tim with.

Crowd: Cheers and applause.

Jones: We ain’t going to have to do nothing, if anything, they ain’t do nothing now. Don’t do anything. Nonetheless Shonda said that Grace is a lonely, sitting out there just talkin’ some big old fat man. (makes blah blah noises) And Tim is running around with some old– uh, some whore that was one foot higher than him. He’s running around and (stumbles over words) and they know her. Debby knows her. Debbie Touchette knows her, she’s a $60 a night whore.

Voice in Crowd: Woo.

Jones: That’s poor old Tim. He can’t even get it on with Grace, and so I guess he’s going to have that– that– that whore lick it.

Crowd: Stirs.

Jones: We’re watching a boat, one watching one, one watching the other. Anything goes wrong out here, we say, waterfall.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: (laughs) And honey, and the water will fall.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: (Voice raised throughout) And them crazy pricks. And the conspiracy knows how crazy niggers we are. And Stoen thinks he’s winning. He’s winning with a thousand of us here and two- or three hundred crazy niggers back home? I’m talking about loyal crazy niggers. We got a whole lot more than that. If something happen to me, and lot of folk will remember a healing, it would be– it’ll come in strange places. Stoen’s fuckin’ with us and tryin’ to destroy us, and he thinks he’s going get by with it? He thinks he’s going to live in that Montgomery suite? Shit, somebody’ll get out of this jungle and get his ass.

Crowd: Cheers and applause.

Jones: (Calms) Peace. Tired of the sons of bitches. I made that– that’s one goddamn thing we’ll have to– We’ll have at least. And a few of those pricks are goin’ to go. To a prayer meeting. But I say, we’ve had a lot of things going for us, lot of things we can be thankful for. The law of the land says you’re supposed to have– you go down to the public school. We– We said no, and we didn’t have to go. The law of the land says a doctor [Larry Schacht] couldn’t practice, and he does. He did a surgery, a beautiful surgery, on Brother Johnson. You can look at that growth, you oughta all take a look at it. It oughta be put out on display. By the way, when we have a movie, and I was talking to Charlie [Touchette] the other day. It’s ridiculous, when people come in here, that calf hide shoulda been up. And some of you people moved that out, and showing our works, that’s the very goddamn thing people want to see. That foreign minister would’ve been very impressed by people making– tanning their own hide, and having our growth out, (stumbles over words) but you look at that growth. And how many times you been to surgery restroom? How many times you been to a surgery? I mean to doctor after doctor, and didn’t find it. How many here have been to doctor after doctor, didn’t find cancer? Sister Perkins woulda died if I– (stumbles over words) I found it because of my intensive demand and campaign, and all the cooperation my medical staff (stumbles over words) give everyone cancer exams, and get these new people through it quickly. ‘Cause you say, I’m all right. Yeah, Mom [Virginia] Taylor been to five doctors, and they didn’t find it.

Voice in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Five fucking US doctors. The best. They don’t give a shit. Sister Perkins has been to doctors. They don’t give a shit. She’s black, beautiful, radiant, but they don’t give a shit. Continental damn. You’re fortunate to be here. Got no complaints, as long as one baby happy one day– one day more for a baby. (Claps hands once) That’s why I take it, one day more for a senior. One day more the senior don’t have to walk down Steiner Street and wonder when someone going to mug them, when they been beat down all their life. (Cried out) One day, they get to eat in peace.

Crowd: Cheers and applause.

Jones: (Calms) Yeah. (Pause) I don’t care about your middle class ass, or mine. What the hell is the difference? Fuck us. It’s the children and the seniors that’ve given all their years. Some seniors oughta be thrown in the shit hole, but many of them are sweet and gentle people. Just don’t say because I’m a senior citizen– senior citizen, that means you’re so holy. Some of you fuckers have fucked over everybody all your life. We know you, but there’s some beautiful, beautiful seniors in this place. Another. Ruth Atkins. They didn’t do anything– The medicine didn’t do anything for her, and here she stands in health tonight. Best of surgery, cancer all through her body. Stands in health. Do you how many? And cancer disappeared in Rose Simon [Pauline Simon], cancer disappeared in Rose Peterson. Disappeared. But why in hell–

End of tape

Tape originally posted March 2017.

 

Last modified on May 25th, 2017.
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