Q379 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Jones: Who is winning? Who in this USA imperialist were to make the maximum miraculous and conceivable industrial advances over the next few years, it will clearly have to accept second place to the Soviet Union avant garde of liberation in the world in reference to economic output in the early 80s.

A few years after the revolution, the USSR, industrially speaking, was the best part of a century behind the USA. By 1980, however, Soviet industrial production will be nearly a tenth above the USA’s total. At most, the gap will then be two or three years. Between 1960 and– between 1860 rather and 1913, more than fifty years, czarist Russia, imperialist or feudalist Russia, didn’t even begin to close the economic gap. The USA imperialist always produced at least eight times Russia’s maximum. Then came the war, followed by the civil war, and foreign intervention by 14 nations. In 1922, when the last foreign invaders were driven from Soviet territory, the League of Nations estimated that the United States output was 35 times that of the war-ravaged Soviet republic. Twenty of the subsequent years have been taken up with wars and economic recovery, the wars which were perpetrated by even US imperialism in the beginning, even using [Adolf] Hitler as a buffer. The civil war and intervention cost us a quarter of our national wealth – we, who love the Soviet Union – the Second World War destroyed about a third of the entire national wealth. In two world wars and the civil war, we lost almost 40 million of our most vigorous citizens, not counting those who died of wounds and shocks afterwards in our beloved USSR. These wars left the USA virtually untouched during the Second World War. Indeed, her industrial output increased by half. The Nazis had destroyed 1710 towns, 70 tho– thousand cities and villages, and tens of thousands of factories, mines, power stations, and so on. The Soviet output naturally fell. In 1946, it was still only three-quarters of the prewar level.

But by 1950, the Soviet Union had again reached and passed the prewar economic level by a miraculous advent. We then notice– stood at about 30 percent of the American level. Growth rates of Soviet industry have long been far higher than uh, USA. Admittedly during the first Five Year Plan, that was easy to achieve, in view of our low starting level. But from 1950 to ‘77, our industrial production grew eleven times over, whereas America’s only tripled. The annual average increase in the Soviet Union was 9.2 percent. In the USA, only four point– only four percent. In many Soviet industries, their growth and output is now higher than the USA’s in actual as well as relative terms. Since the early 70s, the Soviet Union has been investing more than the United States of America. We are now ahead of the United Sates of America in output of oil, coal, iron ore, steel, cement, mineral fertilizer and other important items. True, the USA still produces more critical commodities and offers more services than the USSR, and stands to prosperity are generally higher. But man but does live by bread alone. A level of the second of the social development is also measured by the yardsticks.

I didn’t give you a test on Saturday, but you might have one tonight or any night, so please don’t take advantage. Don’t turn off what you’re hearing, the truth about the news.

For instance, the socialist Soviet Union has no un– no unemployment at all, and has not had any since 1930. It has no energy, ecological, or economic crisises. It has no inflation pricises– in prices, and has been stable for more than 20 years. Social benefits like the health services, education grants, pensions, and allowances are all financed from the state budget. There are no deductions from wages. Imagine that. No Soviet citizen need fear losing his job, he need not fear failing (stumbles over words) by losing his job, by falling ill and being unable to afford treatment, of losing his savings because of inflation, and he pays next to nothing for fares on any vehicle, plane or train or bus, or little or nothing in rent. It’s down now to two percent in many areas, and in some places, one percent of the entire salary. And actual material levels are rapidly rising. Since 1950, real income’s per head in the s– USSR have quadrupled, an average annual growth of 5.2 percent against America’s two per– uh, two percent.

Like many others of my generation, I have a vivid memory of my childhood, says this writer. During the war, my father was killed. So were the fathers of most of my classmates. I remember how the ink froze in our inkpots, and a dry crust of rye bread was the most delicious food in the world. We wore jackets cut down from our father’s old trench coats and dreadful boots for several years after the war. What a contrast today. Perhaps the biggest complaint nowadays is the shortage of books. Though we publish more than any other country in the world, they are still in short supply, because of (unintelligible word) Soviet Union are literate all and they’re avid readers. And we have fewer cars, you–

Yes, we still have problems, but like most Soviet people, I am convinced that we shall overtake imperialist America in those fields where it still retains a lead. In the very near future, too. Socialism is only bound to win, because eventually the worker will see that only under socialism does he get all the benefits of his labor. Where else do you find a people paying no rent, paying no uh, cinema, for not paying for the movie or the dance, or not paying even for many restaurants, not paying for telephones or gas or utilities, not paying for transportation, being able to save allthat money and have it in the bank. Where else? Obviously it’s going to soon become aware to all thinking mankind and womankind that it is in the Soviet Union that hope of the world lies. We have never had any hesitation about borrowing from the Americans, anything that is uh, actually good, big business acumen, enterprise and speed with which they introduce the latest technical developments in their advanced capitalist state. They had 250 years over the Soviet Union. And we shall go on doing so.  Because we are socialists, we learn wherever we can. And even though capitalism had a 250-year head start, we have practically caught up in every area, and in many areas are far in advance. But there are more than a few things that would be well-advised to borrow from us, the socialist world.

Thus ends that commentary in full agreement.

The Soviet people today observe Constitution Day. The new constitution was adopted by the parliament one year ago after a fourth– a fourth month discussion in which all the adult population took part. Thousands of proposals and amendments were submitted to the Constitutional Commission, headed by Leonid Brezhnev, head of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, the avant garde of liberation in Africa and all over the world. They were taken into account when the final text was drafted. The new constitution became a summary of the Soviet state’s development in 60 years. It has 174 articles protecting all the main points of the Helsinki Accords and the principles of the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights. The constitution guarantees Soviet citizens the rights to work, to free education, to paid leave, health protection, and pension. The constitution also includes the people’s right to free housing in most areas.

The General Secretary of the Soviet Communist party president Leonid Brezhnev has sent a message to the chairman of the MPLA, party of labor and the president of Angola, (struggles over pronunciation) Agostoni– Agostinho Neto, the Marxist-Leninist country of Angola on the second anniversary of the bilateral treaty for friendship and cooperation. The message reflects international solidarity in the struggle against imperialism, colonialism, and racism, and a struggle for peace and international security. Leonid Brezhnev feels certain that continued friendship and close cooperation between the two nations will gain in strength and scale to the benefit of both nations, and peace and progress too.

The president of Syria [Hafez al-Assad] has returned to (stumbles over pronunciation) Damascus after completing an official visit to the Soviet Union. In a telegram to Leonid Brezhnev, he expressed satisfaction with the talks in Moscow and stressed they would further strengthen closer bilateral relations, because of the USA’s Camp David sellout. At the talks with Leonid Brezhnev and other Soviet leaders, special attention was paid to the situation in the Middle East. A communique on the result of the talks denounced the Camp David sellout agreement between Egypt and Israel as a collusion breached behind the backs of the Arabs. The Soviet Union and Syria feel that backstage, separate deals serve only to heighten the explosive situation in the Middle East. In their opinion, lasting peace (Pause) in that region should be based on the immediate withdrawal of the Israeli aggressive troops from the occupied territories and respect of the right of the Palestinian Arabs to have a state of their own. This can be reached within the framework of the Geneva peace conference.

Soviet Foreign Minister Andrei Gromyko, speaking of Soviet e– evolution and growth, has hit on a problem of strengthening peace, the Middle East and on Soviet-American relations. The Soviet U– Union said he (unintelligible word) wants to have good relations with USA because peace between the two countries means peace for the whole earth. He spoke in favor of a speedy conclusion of the SALT agreements with the United States, and he noted that some changes in the right direction have taken place in thew American stance. And least he’s hopeful. At the wish of President [Jimmy] Carter to meet Leonid Brezhnev, he said that this meeting should be well-prepared for the signing of the important documents above all on limiting strategic weapons. Andrei Gromyko, Foreign Minister of the USSR, noted that the current session of the United Nations General Assembly, nearly all the member countries have backed the Soviet proposal to conclude an international convention guaranteeing the security of non-nuclear states.

The United Nations Security Council has urged the conflicting sides in Lebanon to stop hostilities and observe the ceasefire. The calls contained in a resolution that was unanimously approved last night. The Council also requests the sides (unintelligible word) the International Red Cross teams into Beirut and evacuate, one the beau– most beautiful capitals, one time, in the world. They have got to evacuate the wounded and the dead. They’re laying all over the city. Security Council call for the re– restoration of peace in Lebanon on the basis of unity, integrity, independence, and national sovereignty, and the removal of all troops of Israeli aggressors.

A group of African countries at the United Nations have condemned the decision of the United States to issue an entry visa to the head of the racist regime of Rhodesia, Ian Smith. In a general statement published in New York, New York, they described it as a moral violation of the United Nations charter and of the Security Council’s resolution for the observation of the Smith regime. They found it surprising and shocking that the United States had violated these resolutions, after their so-called report of favoring human rights. The Patriotic Front of Zimbabwe views the United States action as a challenge to the international community. They said that the United States hopes to arrange talks with Ian Smith about the future of Rhodesia and demands of the recent Camp David sellout arrangements.

[Nguyen Huu Tho] The vice president of Vietnam, an ally of the Soviet Union, has completed his official uh, visit to Angola. In a communique signed at the end of his visit, he denounced China’s agreement– aggression against Vietnam and called for its stop by pursuing the expansionist policy. The communique said, China aligns with the imperialist powers. This policy’s a threat to peace in Southeast Asia, Africa, and the whole world. The communique expresses full support for the national liberation movement in Southern Africa. It also denounced the Israeli aggressors’ actions in upsetting the unity of the Arab people and depriving the Arab people of Palestine to form their own state. The vice president of Vietnam went on to stress that the Chinese had made great strides in the service of their own people in domestic collectives, and why could they not change their complete barbaric foreign policy before it’s too late, and ultimately a nuclear war comes.

The World Peace Council’s president has called the international conference in support of the liberation movements in southern Africa and against apartheid. The conference is sponsored by the World Peace Council. The organization of Afro-Asian solidarity and the United Nations Special Committee Against Apartheid. Over a thousand delegates from 80 countries came for mobilizing progressive forces everywhere to sign against the mass struggle against imperialism in Africa.

The Human Rights Commission of the Organization of American States heard evidence from the citizens of Esteli in Nicaragua, they told the commission about the campaign of mass murder and terror launched in the city by dictator [Anastasio] Somoza, National Guard backed and armed by US imperialists, along with the guidance of USA advisors right on the scene. They captured many of the– the– they were captured, US advisors were captured in the city of Esteli. The city was practically demolished. According to the witnesses, the soldiers were shooting civilians and looting their homes, raping the women, killing innocent children. Today the commission is visiting the city of Masiya– Masaya, or Masiya. However it [Masaya] would be pronounced.

In Moscow– Moscow, the Secretary of the Soviet Communist Party Central Committee has met with a delegation from the African National Congress of South Africa. The delegation thanked the Soviet Union for its support for the Patriotic Front of South Africa in their struggle against the racist regime. The Soviet people abhor the system apar– of apartheid and racism everywhere. And there are, you know, 150 different races that live in peace inside the Soviet Union, and they insist on the liberation of the people of South Africa.

Soviet farmers grew a good crop this year. A record amount of grain has been harvested. The farmers sell all their products to the Soviet government, the people, at a high guaranteed price. The capital income in the Soviet Union’s rural area has doubled in the last six years.

The Soviet cosmonauts have begun unloading the unmanned cargo ship, Progress IV, which docked with the orbiting ship on Friday.

The Soviet Union has demanded that the trial of two Soviet diplomats in the United Na– States be stopped. Sometime ago, two workers at the United Nations Secretariat were arrested in the United States and charged with conspiracy to damage US security. The charges against the two Soviet diplomats are unfounded, as of course always they are. The Soviet official have no relation to any conspiracy. The whole case is nothing but a provocation by the American Secret Service and CIA. It is obvious that the unjustified trial should be stopped immediately, and the two men given the opportunity to leave for their home, the beloved Soviet Union.

The last commentary. Whom does the law protect? Police and fishery inspector– inspectors arrested a group of poachers near Asfarkan [phonetic] for illegal fishing of sturgeon and possession of sturgeon roe. In court, they were identified as (Russian name), himself a volunteer fishery inspector and three of his subordinates. The accused hope that (Russian name repeated)– (Russian name repeated) position would get them out of trouble in the Soviet Union, but the court found them all guilty and gave them sentences of 18 months. Soviet courts often hear cases where there is a clash between the interests of the individual and those of state organizations or government. In (unintelligible word) both parties have to prove their cases. The (Russian name), and Kuib– Kuibyshev – K-u-i-b-y-s-h-e-v – region, a state organization demolished the home of one A. Penkov. P-e-n-k-o-v, without first providing him with alternative accommodations. The court found for the plaintiff. Cases like this are quite common, and they completely disprove the assertion, often made in the West, that Soviet law protects state organizations and officials rather than in the interest of the ordinary people. In other words, that man was given his full house back, and all of the damages that had been done to him in terms of m– psychological and other pressures.

Another assertion is that– in communist countries, com– constitutions are just scraps of paper which are no guarantee for fundamental human rights. Lies like this find acceptance because in the capitalist world, people often know from their own experience how hard it is to win a legal bag– battle against a government organization. In charging that the same thing applies in socialist countries, Western (unintelligible word) they are all just liars or misleading those who listen to them. The Soviet constitution certainly says that citizens must not use their rights against the teaching of socialism. But that doesn’t mean that’s this– the government claims that– and the– and actions are automatically deemed to be right. What with that particular article in the constitution does is to protect the rights and freedoms of Soviet citizens, by stopping individuals using them in ways that curtail the rights and freedoms of the vast majority. In a socialist state, any action really directed against the government is in fact directed against the whole people, because the people own everything. The means of production, the means of distribution, all the wealth. So the people are the government. All judicial bodies in the Soviet Union make it their business to see that the rights and freedoms of Soviet citizens are observed and ensured. The penal codes of the Soviet Union, the USSR, and the constituent republics, provide for stiff penalties for crimes against constitutional rights and liberties of the individual. It is, for instance, a criminal offence to do anything that would deprive women of equal rights or to violate the privacy of correspondents or the home. It is a criminal offence to discriminate towards anyone because of race, creed or color. The law also provides for punishment of violations of the labor laws, and for refusal to employ or for dismissal of the pregnant woman or nursing mother. It protects the rights of authors, separates church and state, and sees that believers can freely exercise their religion.

And all these laws are scrupulously observed in the Soviet Union, the avant garde of liberation in the world over. An official who tries to flout the labor laws, to ignore safety regulations, who fails to abide by collective agreements or tries to interfere with trade union activity, will quickly find himself out of his job or facing the courts. At an engineering works in Kirov – K-i-r-o-v – region, an unskilled woman worker was injured– she was injured when a concrete slab fell from a faulty crane. The manager was charged with permitting the use of faulty equipment and also for employing a worker not qualified for that particular job. He got an 18-month sentence.

Our penal codes all contain a section on crimes committed by officials. They are liable to punishment for abusing their power, overstepping the limits of their job, and for negligence which harms any individual or other people’s interest. Presumptions of innocence is by the way a basic principle of Soviet law, thus for the propaganda that you’ve heard about where– where justice really exists. It is the USSR that really has justice and protects the individual.

Be sure you look at the news and recite, again listen, be sure before tonight when we have the movie, the language class, be sure that you review the tape on guests. That’s very important. We must review that one. And also, I urge that uh, you look at the news on the boards. Secondarily I say, in your afternoon time or your– whatever time you have, dress your property up very nicely, keep them up very, very high standards, because the Inspection Committee will have to talk about it otherwise. We are (unintelligible word) so many meetings, but we will have to continue with our language studies and our news. And be please sure you’re listening to the news and not shutting it off, because you’re responsible for the news as it proceeds. We have to know the news. Remember the constitution, and we also must be working at our highest level, so that we expect to be done.

For the next few hours, Comrade Lee Ingram and Comrade Al Tschetter will be working– uh, Al Touchette, rather, will be working to maintain this community. Let’s see if we can do some things to clear up. I’d like a draft by the engineer on the building. We now have a geriatric section in the dining room, so we could be thinking of a time when we can replace it, or gravel down the front, where all the mud stands. Maybe while we’re gone, members of the (unintelligible word) working force, we could show that we have a esprit de corps that can continue things and push things ahead, in spite of missing them as we will. It’s very important now. Be sure, be sure. We have the news, as I said, will follow just after the movie. So– And then there’ll be treats tonight, special treats, and there will be a language class at 7:30. There will be some changes in that if we can– as soon as we get the ana– anal– an analysis from the farm workers on exactly how much people can produce in their usual work day, as compared to what they were uh, producing. If they can show that they can produce the same amount two hours less, then we will cut that out– down to two hours, and gladly so.

Remember, the number of Guyanese neighbors that we have to help. We have tens of thousands of dollars expended for free medical care, taking them to our headquarters, giving them free medication, and the liberation of our own people who are in agony to be free, who cry to be free. When people have to go back, they go back in desperation, so please, remember that. And let’s remember all those that are suffering in the world. It’s what our taxes in USA have done to the world, to kill, to destroy the innocents, the little women and children that I was talking about a moment ago, Nicaragua. Why, why would US President Carter and the Trilateral Commission and all the multinationals uphold him. They’re going to lose even right-of-center governments. They’ve lost Venezuela over it, they’re losing other South American governments on the South American continent, because no one can approve of a dictator who murders his own people, just to keep in power, to say that he’s the dictator when he has no people left. He’s murdered them all or forced them all into exile.

Much love, and work well during this volunteer few hours that we have today. Thank you so much.

30 seconds of tape distortion


Part 2:

Male 1: –and sew, and your eyesight permitted, she needs to see that so you can be of help to the– to the collective. So see Ruby [Carroll] if you can sew and you’re a senior please?


Male 1: Charlie– Charlie Touchette, could you come up and talk to me? (Pause) Charlie Touchette?


Young male: All right, the jury came to the decision that uh, Poncho [Garry Dartez Johnson] should apologize for his attitude and to work off something with his trunk because of the fact, uh, it– it was– it was uh, talking to uh, (unintelligible word). The situation wasn’t that the trunk was not in– in (unintelligible name) way, it was a totally different situation. And uh, taking under consideration that the things that he– you know, that he’s done, you know, he– he doesn’t– (unintelligible word)– we shouldn’t give him one– we decided not to give him a warning this time, wanting him to apologize for his attitude and to uh, w– work something out with his trunk, with the (unintelligible word)

Poncho: I appreciate that, a warning. All right. I appreciate that. Uh, no warning, I– I– That’s better yet.

Young male: Thank you, Dad.

Male 1: Okay, the next is cottage 4, and uh

Jones: –to keep a closer eye on some security, Poncho does, and others. And has the good sense to move away from the building when I want some of the people around my building, I want this said loud and clear. You get up there like you– uh, trying to find out what I’m talking about on that telephone. I don’t like that. You aren’t going to secure me on the po– on my porch. Hear? You’re going to secure me out some distance.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: So if I’m talking to somebody in serious matters, calling them up, counseling, as you heard me, I gave you one day’s example, couple of days ago to show you how many I call out in one hour. And you heard me call several dozen names. I think their business has a right to be private.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: You understand?

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: Okay.

Male 1: Thank you, Dad. Next is uh, (clears throat) cottage 4, then and also John Harris and then, like I said, still some more (unintelligible word) to go over. So uh, David Goodwin is accusing Garnett Johnson of– of uh, stealing a pair of socks. Okay. Anything else to be said?

Goodwin: Uh, with the– with the socks. Garnett– Garnett– I don’t know how he got the socks but he said it again, told me not to–

Male 1: Is Eddie Dennis here?

Goodwin: But–

Male 1: Wait, wait. Is Eddie Dennis here? Could you come up front? Your name was called. Go ahead.

Goodwin: But he– he gave the socks back to me the– that night, and they said that Clarence Klingman’s been stealing people’s stuff too. So I don’t know.

Young adult: In the house, they all are into each other’s things, they bothering when the other one is not at home, something is always missing, every day we come home, they have some complaint about something missing, and they even accuse other people of coming in and stealing something. I don’t know what’s going on in the house, but sometimes things are missing out of our loft too. So I don’t know if other people are taking it, or it’s just them that are taking each other’s stuff. (Pause) (unintelligible word) Uh– I know– like, Clarence Klingman’s been stealing a lot of stuff in the house because, we– we even found to–

Jones: –not talking about Clarence. Uh, I heard him doing something to– What’d he do the other night? He (unintelligible word)– What in the hell is this, Clarence? He stayed up there long hours to do those (unintelligible word). Why in the hell would you be stealing? God damn it to hell.

(Voices unintelligible)

Jones: They gave a very good little talk, what?

Young adult: And also Robert [Keith] Johnson, he also steals.

Jones: He gave it to– very good explanation to the guest on why he was doing there (unintelligible word) Why do you steal for, son? Hell, I’m trying to see equality. You haven’t made no complaint to me that you weren’t getting what you wanted. What the fuck you steal for?

Clarence: Uh, the only thing I think I stole was uh, this T-shirt from Garnett Johnson. That’s the only thing I stole.

Young adult: And so, that’s stealing things.

(Voices unintelligible)

Young adult: I talked to the guys, I told them that if they need– you know, if they need anything from the warehouse to give me a list of what they need, I’ve gone through their things, I’ve (unintelligible word) from the warehouse, you always find clothes laying on the floor, they steal each other’s soap when they get soap, I found soap and I lost yesterday that someone had stolen and put in a (unintelligible word) up by my loft. And I asked about that, and nobody in the house knew about it, but yet the soap was there. They always missing these things and stealing each other’s things.

Male 1: Oh– okay, so– it’s– so right now, there’s three people that’re on the floor for stealing. One is Garnett Johnson, two is Clarence, and three is Robert Johnson, right? Is anybody else on the floor? ‘Cause you know like, we can give testimony and testimony. We’ve got some documented cases of people stealing, right, so let’s not run this in the ground. Oh– okay, okay uh– Is anybody else that– that we can identify in Cottage 4 that is being stealing. Okay, now, what is your defense then?

Garnett: Uh, about the socks, uh–

Male 1: Do you steal– Wait, wait, wait. Did you steal them? Did you steal them?

Young adult: Yes or no.

Garnett: Yes, but David took my underwear.

Male 1: Okay, wait, hold it, wait, hold it, hold it. You stole the socks, right?

Garnett: Yeah, I stole it–

Male 1: Okay–

Garnett: No, I didn’t steal ‘em, I didn’t steal ‘em, ‘cause I gave ‘em back to– after I got through wearing them.

Male 1: No, I– you– Wait, hold it, hold it. Are you accusing–

(Voices unintelligible)

Male 1: Hold it, please. Hold it, hold it, hold it, child. I mean, this is funny to you guys, but it’s not a fucking thing funny to me because we got all this other shit to go through. And it– And it’s gonna be longer. Now, you are accusing David of stealing, now, right?

Garnett: Right. (unintelligible under Male 1)

Male 1: Okay, okay, okay, okay, that’s it. You’re accusing him of stealing. David who? David Goodwin or– or David Chaikin?

Garnett: David Goodwin. He– He took a pair of my underwear one night, and uh– and uh, he gave ‘em back to me, like that, that– that’s the way it’s going. Anybody that steal the stuff is giving it back.

(Voices unintelligible)

Male 1: Has it been used, after you– after you give it back?

Garnett: Yes, it’s been used, and then I gave it back.

(Voices unintelligible)

Unknown, likely Jones: Everybody stretch.

Unknown boy: Uh– when he stole it–

Male 1: Wait, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it.

Jones: Thank you, and I do apologize. I’ve been trying to answer two thousand questions.

Male 1: Come on, everybody stretch, please. Come on, everybody stretch.

(people talk over each other)

Jones: –damn close to eight thousand. Don’t ever let me go more than 15 minutes without doing this. Vernetta [Christian]? Motion at me like this. And I won’t consider it disrespectful. Motion to me. Time me. I’ve got to keep people stretching. Thank you.

Male 1: Okay.

Jones: All right.

Boy: –‘okay. Um–

Jones: Well, where– where we at?

(people talk over each other)

Jones: –so we’re going to lose another hour of production, but I’d like to– to’ve seen this film but we’re not going to see it, I can see that. Let’s go on.

Male 1: Okay, it’s some new information, jury, for your information, it’s just been brought to my attention, the whole house was brought in to a counseling session, and the main folks that were involved in that was Garnett, David, and Clarence. And they were told at that session–

Jones: People don’t understand what I’m saying. If you would get out and produce tomorrow, instead of taking up our goddamn time, and step up your production, try to double it, at least increase it, what, one-fifth– well, that’d be one-fifth, wouldn’t it. Am I– Am I right? One-fifth. Twenty percent. If you’d increase it 20 percent, you could have two hours less a day. If I see for thirty days, it’s done consic– consecutively in all departments, I will reduce it by twenty percent. (unintelligible word) shit. Now do you understand that?


Jones: Try, teachers to make that clear to them, and supervisors, try to make that clear to them. Then we’ll give you a little (unintelligible word) shower, your little relaxation before we come to Russian, which we gotta do– And how many people have ever been– had 25 uh– over– Jesus Christ, it’s in air flights alone, just in air flights alone, what is it we figured? Twelve hundred– no, there’s 40– if there’re 40, it would be– Yes, uh, whatever. More than that. It was fifty-some thousand. I– I imagine the– the– the– the banquet style they’ll keep you in, and the kind of way they treat you will cost them a quarter million dollars, probably. ‘Cause they put out the rug. And we got this chance to be chosen. They’da known about it, (stumbles over words), there’d be no question. We didn’t know about it, now it’s a little late, so sometimes they give it some other African nation, their best people, but if it works out, we have that– that opportunity, and by God, I– I think we should try to get this shit off the floor, so we can learn the Soviet constitution, so we can learn the language, so that we can do something constructive and be on with something that benefits us. See, there back and forth, and hol– hollerin’– Every day, you– You people– I believe, if I had seven day PC meeting– or a seven day Peoples Rally meeting, there’d be just as many problems on seven days as we did have on two.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Male 1: I believe it.

Jones: I’m not gone live like this.

Male 1: Okay, uh– Are we done, Dad?

Jones: No, I’m done. Don’t worry about it.

Male 1: Okay, now, uh, these– these are what we’re dealing with now. Right now, yes. Okay now, David uh– Oh, excuse me. The whole house was – was totally going to get a warning, right?

Boy: Right.

Male 1: Now uh, the only thing about this now, David, uh, is reporting– reporting the situation that just happened.

David: Oh– Okay, see–

Male 1: Okay. Wait, wait, wait. It’s no more to be said. There’s no more– y’all have shot y’all’s shot. Now it’s in the jury’s hand. (Pause) It’s in the jury’s hand. I already said that you reported this particular situation, so they– they heard that.

David: I know, but what Garnett’s talking about happened way be– before the counseling session. Wasn’t that before the counseling session? (Pause) What Garn– about the uh, about the underwear, I had uh, three pair of underwear, same as his, and the underwear was laying up on the shelf. And I– And I thought they were mine and I put ‘em on. And that was before the counseling session, I got dealt with in the counseling session.

(Voices talking about names written in underwear)

David: Huh?

Male in crowd: Was your name on it?

David: His name wasn’t eithrer Neither one of our names was in the other one. Yeah, but– but my underwear didn’t have my name in them either.

Male 1: Well, wait a minute. Isn’t it– Isn’t it general policy in Jonestown to mark your clothing?

Boy: I got ‘em marked.

Male 1: I beg your pardon. Where can you get a marker?

Boy: You can ask for one.

Boy 2: I’m not– I’m not–

Male 1: Where can you get a marker?

David: From the (unintelligible word), but I’m not having to steal nobody’s stuff.

Male 1: No, no, no, no, no, no buts, no buts.

David: I haven’t been stealing nobody’s stuff.

Male 1: You shouldn’t’ve even had it on.

Voice in back: Let the jury decide that.

Male 1: And so– uh, you know, let’s not– let– go on back to the jury.

Voice in crowd: That’s the same answer–

Jones: How long they been off this uh, Public Services?

Voice in crowd: Probably not that long.

Jones: How long?

(several voices)

Female: I’d like to know–

Jones: He– He went up– uh, he brought up the subject of people are stealing?

Jack Beam: He’s the one who brought it up, so ask if the jury gonna take it iunto consideration if they don’t (fades)

(several voices)

Jones: Okay, let’s go, let’s go.

Beam: (unintelligible beginning) –counseling sessions, they’re bringing up old shit on him, because he’s brought it up– (unintelligible)

Male voice in crowd: That’s what I wanted to know.

(several voices)

Jones: Well– I– I– I– I–I hope they do, uh, Jack points that out, I think it was worthy of being pointed out. When somebody brings up matters, if you gone dig up old crap that’s outmoded by August first, we don’t want to hear it. We are l– We are nearly October. Where if you were in the United States, you’d begin to feel very, very cold. (Pause) What’d you uh, jury decide?

Male 1: Okay, on this, there’s no discussion on this at all. ‘Cause this is documented stuff, okay, ya’ll. The following did not return their two Saturday tents, oh. The tenth month seven day seventy-eight, okay? Dorothy Buckley, a shovel. Number 8. Derek Walker, a cutlass, number 59. Joel Cobb, a cutlass, number 4. Tommy Kice, a cutlass, number 45. Roosevelt Turner, a post hole digger, number 3. Michael Heath, cutlass, 108 number. Erris Morrison, cutlass E. Freddie Lewis, cutlass 8. (Clears throat) Ray McKnight, for PS [Public Services] members, cutlass number 53, 55, and 66. Anthony Ford, cutlass 115. The following people uh, did not return their tools Thursday, the fifth. Lucioes Bryant, a cutlass number one-one-one. Uh, Walter Williams, a rake, one-seven-eight. Walter Williams, a hoe, number 40. Kivin Freeze-Dry [Kivin Earl Smith], a shovel, number 12. And somebody named Thursday. Kivin– okay, Kivin Freeze-Dry again, a cutlass 113. Marcus Anderson, a cutlass, number 30. James Johnson, a cutlass, number 42. Rory Bargeman, a cutlass seven-four-one. (Clears throat) And you did not return this stuff as of four pm, Friday 10 [October] uh, the sixth. The following people did not return their tools Friday the sixth. Al Smart, a cutlass, 114. Tanya Cox, a– a cutlass, number 52. Chris Lund [Rozynko], a cutlass, number 78, and I. That was a Friday. So there’s no discussion on any of that kind of stuff, right?

Male voice: Right. (Several voices agree)

Beam: That’s how that– how that (unintelligible word) tree got cut down, it was because there was somebody (unintelligible balance)

(Several voices)

Male 1: (Clears throat) Okay, so you want this whole list of folk?

(Several voices)

Male 1: Tanya Cox is off. All right. Okay. (Clears throat) Yes, jury? Oh. There’s one more thing. (Pause) Wha– What kind of (unintelligible word) give you warning was that it’s been announced publicly that if you do not turn your tools back in at the end of the day, you get a warning. That– That’s the long and the short of that.

Male voice: Is the tool– Has the tool ever been returned? I mean, it could be more serious.

(Several voices)

Male 1: All right. (Pause) Right. (Pause) Right. (Pause) Can I say one more thing to the jury just brought to my attention, that David and uh, Garnett, reported by Penny [Kerns], both had a bad attitude about the lying or something like this, so you guys should take that into consideration, too. (calls out) Now come on, don’t just make no long goddamn story out of the thing. I don’t mean to be harsh. I don’t– I don’t mean to be harsh, but is that right? Were they– Were they– Okay, that’s it. Now, that’s Security– Hold it, hold it. She is Security, she is Security, and a lot of people who’ve given her backtalk about the whole thing back there, so don’t– don’t say it’s not true. Everything is never true. Jesus.

(Several voices)

Male 1: (Clears throat) Okay, now here’s something else that really does not need any discussion, while the jury goes back into session. The following people are overweight, they gain weight, or they’re not losing enough weight. Shirley Baisy, Wanda Souder, Karen Lewis, Jan Wilsey, Karen Lendo, Betty Jean Gill, Gloria uh, Rosa, James Edwards, No– Najuandrienne Darnes, Margaret James, Vellersteane Jones, Betty Fountain, Dawn Mitchell [Gardfrey], Donna Briggs, Alice Inghram, Bea Dawkins, Malieka Wi– un Wills [Mary Pearl Willis], Lisa Lewis, Joe Wilson. No discussion on that, right?

Voices in crowd: Right.

Male 1: The next thing, the following people was– There’s a discussion. (Voice drops) Oh, Father–

Jones: The man down there that passed [Plickards Norris]. Now only did he declare he had power with Jesus, called on Jesus – everybody was there – called on Jesus, Jesus, help me, Jesus, help me. Now (unintelligible word) went all through this community, talking about he had pow– how many remember him, talking about power? You– you heard him, he (unintelligible word), you know he did. He had special gift with– with uh– he had special gift. That’s the easiest way to die. But in spite of that, if he had got rid of that fact, he died horribly fast. More fortunately than anyone who’s ever passed here, even those who pass in grace and not violated harshly, they’ve had no pain. Cancer patient to the last. It’s– It’s a– It’s miraculous, how this cancer patient’s doing. She’s [Lisa Layton] supposed to’ve dead a month ago. She won’t let loose of her daughter [Debbie Layton Blakey]. But you take a look at her, she doesn’t have a pain, and she’s not getting uh, one–

End of tape