Annotated Transcript Q973

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(Editor’s note: This tape was transcribed by Georgiana Mamlakah. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)

Jones: (tape scrambles) to murder Jesus Christ (unintelligible word) the Jews. This morning we had a man who came to this very door. A young minister, 35 years of age, he had the audacity, if we weren’t a gentle people by nature, he would’ve been beaten to the inch of his life. He was right here. Some of you saw him as you were coming in. He said the Blacks will no doubt be destroyed because of the curse of Ham. He said Blacks had– what is happening to them all because it’s God’s will. He said God ordered the slaying of certain children in the Bible, and they were Black, they were dark. He ordered the destruction of them. You know that crazy parable that’s in the Bible that was written by the slave master King James that first sent the slip– that first sent the ship Good Jesus– the ship Jesus or the Good Ship Jesus that brought the first Blacks back here in chains, and everyone that knows history knows that. King James is responsible for the first slave ship that was ever sent to bring Blacks, and he also put a plenty of Indians, Mexicans and Whites in chains as well. He was a slave master, he was a drunk, he was an oppressive king, he was a practicing deviant, a sexual deviant of the worse nature, he bothered little children, he brought them into the court at will and made prisoners of them. King James that wrote your Bible, along with eighty other drunks just like him. You say well, why do we have church? I said last night, we have church because that man was raised– on the moment that I said araise last evening, he raised up free. That woman that had been paralyzed and bleeding in her mouth, and had the stroke brought in here half dead, she’d been in agony since Saturday, the moment I spoke the word, she was resurrected and she came back. She could not speak. And we had another sister over here that had fallen out, could not speak. The moment I came very quietly walked to her, she was healed. We have a church, because I act like a church 24 hours a day.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I guess that people can have a church to Satan, they’ve got a Satanist church over here where people get nude and lay on the altar. And they’ve got Muslim churches and they’ve got Buddhist churches, and as I said, the atheists now have a Church of Poor Richard. Well, if they can have a church, we’re going to have a church. Until all those other people stop having their churches, we will continue to be a church.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: You say, what do you base your faith on? Faith in Jim Jones, faith in the people that are around Jim Jones, faith in the people that walk with Jim Jones.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: People got faith in something they’ve never seen up in the sky. I guess we’ve got to have a right a– Certainly we have a right to have faith in something we can see, because everybody that’s been looking at me have not died. Everyone that’s paid their commitment has never gone by the way of the grave. We have not had one death since 195– uh, ‘59 of one that has kept the teach– teachings, and in the mother church, not one– We’ve not lost one on the accidents of the usual list that people have. We drive our buses all over this nation, thousands and thousands of miles up and down this coast every week. People come from Los Angeles here every week. We send those buses down there three and four times a week. We’ve never had one even get a bump on the head.

Voice in Crowd: Scattered calls

Jones: Now, if somebody can do that kind of work, we’re going to believe in something we see, ‘cause what we see is what we’re going to get.

Congregation: Applause and calls

Jones: That insane man stood right in the midst of our Black brothers and talkin’ to Brother uh, Lee Ingram, fine educated Black man, one of our board members. Stood there and talked to him about Blacks gonna be murdered because it was God’s will. I wanted to slap the– I– I– but I didn’t because Lee was being so gentle, I wanted to come up and give him a whop the side of his head. I thought, you got a lot of brazen nerve to come in here with all these Black brothers. (unintelligible word) Didn’t it happen right down here today?

Voices in Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Right down here today, and he was standin’ there talking the Bible. He said the Jews got what they had coming to them, because the Bible. They all got murdered and they all should be murdered because they are the ones that killed Jesus. I’m telling you the worst thing that ever happened in this country, and [Adolf] Hitler used the churches to get what he wanted to get done, and America, if you’ll listen to KFAX morning noon and night, you’ll hear them talking about, we got to do something about these people. We got to get law and order. What they want is law and order for the poor. They said these Black people that are rioting, there’s so much disturbance, we’ve got to do something about this. This is not God’s will. We’ve got to elect people that will keep law and order. Hitler was the first one that said that, and the– always the one that want to champion dictatorship. Even if little lackey– this lackey– running lackey of White men, Dr. [Joseph H.] Jackson that heads the Black Baptist convention, he said if Blacks dissent, if Blacks want more rights, he said, put ‘em in concentration camps. (Pause) That’s what Dr. Jackson said.

Voice in Crowd: Scattered calls

Jones: We got not only White fools, we’ve got Black fools.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I had this repeated today. We seldom ever repeat a sermon of a night before, but I saw that about fifty people here had not uh– had the occasion to hear it, and I thought you might as well know where I’m at. I am an enemy of organized religion. I will not stop until I see organized religion destroyed.

Congregation: Shouts and applause

Jones: Every place you’ve seen organized religion, you see a dictatorship. Brazil had the organized influence of the Catholic Church that told them to look up in the sky. Now they’ve got a dictatorship that’s murdering off people, cutting women’s breasts. Greece, a strong orthodox church. Greece now has been taken over by the fascist generals, colonels. Italy, one of the worst places that uh– one of the worst church-ridden places, the high incidents of fascist violence that you’re going to find outside of an outright dictatorship. Every place you find the church, you find (Emphasizes each word) ignorance, poverty, racism, trouble. You find difficulties of every sort. Every t– place the church is strong, you’ve got a dumb people.

Congregation: Delayed applause

Jones: (Moderates tone) Well, I don’t know why you’re here still. I said you stay around as you– we were allowing last evening you saw cripples healed, you saw them instantly spit up cancers, [you] saw a woman that was slated to die was one healed. We’ve seen now I think over seven came out of wheelchairs in this past week right before the movie studios. Even Samuel Goldwyn Mayer [Samuel Goldwyn] said, we run around all these churches trying to find a healing. Said we ran around trying to find a healing, couldn’t get anybody. Miss [Kathryn] Kuhlman wouldn’t let us come in, because she said that– (stumbles over words) she didn’t know whether she could do her healing with us present. So we stood outside with our cameras and asked all those that came out of Kathryn Kuhlman’s if they’d been healed, said no, we couldn’t find one, said we talked to hundreds and hundreds and thousands and thousands, and we couldn’t get one. We went to [Oral] Roberts, we couldn’t find one. We went to every big name healer. [Don] Stewart, the successor of [A. A.] Allen, he wouldn’t let them in either, because he thought it might interfere with faith. I let them in – Samuel Goldwyn Mayer studios – and we brought two out of wheelchairs. One man had a back that’d been crooked and broken for years, he was healed instantly. People was healed of every condition, sister laid down her back brace. They said they were shaken. They said it would look like a Hollywood dramatization. We couldn’t believe it, unless we’d been there, but we saw the cripples walk, we saw it with our own eyes. They said you gave us more healings in five minutes than we’ve heard talked about in all the churches all over America.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: That was last Sunday. Just last Sunday. And they called just yesterday to say that they’re going to put it on sixty television studios, and one producer saw it and wanted to make a movie. Said that I acted better in the– the sincerity and the warmth came across with more intensity and feeling than some of the big named actors, and they’d like to even make a movie out of it, but it’s being released for sixty television stations. It’ll be released here in several weeks, two in Los Angeles, it’s already going to be released in New York, sixty prime cities, our great healing ministry will be given free, because I wasn’t afraid to let somebody in and put the photographers on me. I just said, don’t put the photographers on my people when they’re dancing, don’t make fools of my people. Once a group came in, they wanted to heal, they said they wanted to see my healings, I said, fine. But they got in, and they photographed one of my Black sisters that was getting shout a blessing, and I said get out.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: I kicked their fannies out in about two minutes flat. But this group was from Samuel Goldwyn Mayer, and they showed sincerity, they showed interest in brotherhood, integration, and peace, and they were certainly given (stretches out word) all that they could see. They said I cannot doubt. In fact of the matter, they want to all come back, every one of them wants to come back, bring their relatives. They’ve got all kinds of sick relatives. They’re called all the way from New York to Germany to bring them to get healed.

Congregation: Sustained applause

Jones: No, they– they– Reason they don’t have anything, these churches, they say they believe in Jesus and they won’t– they’re afraid their faith’ll be interrupted if a camera is present. (chuckles) Let me tell you, they don’t have anything, if they’re afraid of a camera. I’m not afraid of a camera or a cannon. When I get ready to do my work, and it’s the right time to expose our work, I wouldn’t be afraid if they had a machine gun on me, I could still stop the machine gun, raise the dead, and heal fifteen people of cancer.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I don’t know how many we’ve raised from the dead this week. It’s been perfectly beautiful. When you see someone bleeding out of their mouth and out of their eyes, and their tongue out and stupefied, no heartbeat, can’t move, and then just say, I said live. And the woman gets up in her eighties and danced all around this Temple this week. Didn’t she? Danced all around. The beautiful Los Angeles Temple danced, praised, rejoiced, went home made every whit whole (John 7:23, “…are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?”), and she’d been in agony since Saturday, laying on her bed, but she drug herself. She said no doctor could help her. She went to the doctor, they couldn’t help her. She called for doctors, they wouldn’t come, so she drug herself into the church, because, she said, I know a god on earth that will lift me up.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: And Sister Mason got lifted up. The moment I quicken that man last night. I said, I know where you’ve been. You’ve been between two worlds, between this planet and the next planet that’s highly evolved that religious foolish folk call the next heaven which is the next planet. It’s just much higher evolved than this. I said I told him what his dreamswere. I told him the type of people he saw. I told him the type of cloud formations he saw – didn’t I – and I said, now that terrible trouble in your stomach’s gone, you feel perfectly well, don’t you. And he danced around here and clapped hands and shook hands with all of you, and you saw that he was made every whit whole (John 7:23).

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Sure, we’ve got a right to be a church. You bet your life. We’ve got our life on the– the line to be a church. If everybody else can be a church, we’re going to be a church. You bet your life.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: We take all of our people in when they’re lonely, we got a catfish pond that will feed every one of our 10,000 members from here to Los Angeles to Seattle and all over the United States. Our catfish ponds up there are swarming, just like maggots, you can just see them, great big fish. We had to transport some of them into other ponds, because we got so many of them. People worried about not eatin’ meat. We’re gonna eat. We– We– You say, why do you have a church? Protection.

Congregation: Scattered applause

Jones: Because when you get around me, there’s a energy, just like you get around a heater. A heater’ll put out some heatfor you, and you’ll feel warm. Right now you feel cool, because I like cool air, because the cells don’t die. If you keep your cells cool, you’ll never have cancer. [You] Say, oh, I’ll get a cold. Well, if you don’t think you won’t, if you let air come in and get used to the cold, it keeps your body temperature low, and the longer you keep your body temperature long– uh, low, the longer you’ll live, the healthier you’ll be. You get cancer when you heat your cells. Cook your cells. Some of you get in front of a heater, you have to cook your cells. You wrap up, and so you’ll just actually– Actually many people are made sterile before they’re 40 by their own radium, their own radiation, their own radiation of their body, destroys their genes, destroys their sperm. You’ve cooked yourselves, ‘cause you got to be too hot, ‘cause somebody told you, you’ll catch a cold. I’ve never caught a cold in my life, ‘cause I love the air. Breathe that air. It’s good for you.

Congregation: Light applause

Jones: It’s all in your head back there, but if you feel it’s in your head, we’ll wrap you up, ‘cause I don’t want any of you catching colds. That’s the only way you can catch them too, is ‘cause somebody gives them to you, somebody suggest you get a cold. When I was a child, Mother [Lynetta Jones] said, don’t you let any air in, gonna get a cold. Every time the window’d open up, I just loved to feel the ice come in. Every time the window’s open, she’d– gonna get a cold, gonna get a cold, and finally she talked me into one.

Congregation: Stirs, scattered laughter

Jones: My dad [James Thurman Jones] smoked that old Bull Durham, and I couldn’t hardly stand it. One night I said, cold or not, I said, up goes this window, and I throwed that window open and let that breeze come in from, you know, the deep– uh, back there the Midwest, in the deeps, in– in the north, (stretches out word) oh, it gets cold, but the wind blew in, and how fresh it felt, and all that (stumbles over words) bull– whatever– Bull Durham went out–

Congregation: Light laughter

Jones: And we– you know we didn’t have any– we didn’t have any commodes in those days, we had one of those carry-you– carry-you–alls. We didn’t have any uh, flush toilets, we didn’t have any uh, fancy uh, outhouses, we had uh, an old pot. And my father, my father’d put that pot under the bed and smoked that Bull Durham, and between that Bull Durham and that pot, that was the ungodliest smell you ever had.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: I said, I’m not going to die with the– I’d rather get a cold than smell Bull Durham and that crap mixed together, so I just opened the window, and ever since then, I’ve been openin’ the window and lettin’ that air breathe in on me, and it’ll make your head feel lighter. I take a cold bath. You better not start it quick, because you gotta condition yourself. But when you feel ever so bad, I just get so little sleep because I’m up with your counseling all night or up with a court case. Here this morning we was concerned about somebody’s animals, we– we– we’re a protection society. [You] Say I don’t know why I should come here. Well, you ought to have good sense– If you had a light bit of– a light bit of brains, you’d come here. ‘Cause we have our counselor down there worrying about people mistreating your animals. If they’ve got your children in trouble, we get in a (stumbles over words) in the– in the jails and swap, we’ll– we’ll fight with them. I’ve got my uh, desire to get through talking and so I mix my languages all up. I don’t like to talk. Anyway, I do talk, because somebody has to talk that’s got some sense, because there’re too many fools talking.

Congregation: Laughter and light applause

Jones: But I want to talk so fast and get it through with, because I use my voice eighteen hours a day, and I just don’t like to talk. Most people don’t do any good talk anyway, they– they– they want to be done. They’ve got religion ‘cause they want to feel better than somebody else. They want to keep their religion because it makes them think that they’re a show-off and they can look down on somebody. People got hell, just because they hate their– their relatives or they hate their neighbor, they just like to say (Uses voice of redneck) Ah, you’re going to hell, but bless God, I’m saved, I’m going to heaven, but you’re going to hell. (Regular voice) Most people got their religion just like that. That’s what their religion’s all about. It’s a pride, it’s a racism in reverse, it’s all kinds of prejudice and conceit. And I don’t like to talk, ‘cause a bunch of dummies down there, some fool woman come through and said the ghost told her– a spirit told her this, spirit told her that we weren’t supposed to resist, if people went to concentration camps. We had all kinds of nuts down there. I turned them out by the droves today. Nuts. A nut– nutty White woman says, yes, the concentration’s gonna come, yes, we’re gonna do this to the Jews, or they’re gonna do it to the Blacks, but it’s God’s will. I don’t care whose will it is, I’m going to knock the shit out of anybody tries to take my people.

Congregation: Sustained applause

Jones: Peace. (Pause) It’s all right. Go home. When you have an accident, you’ll need me.

Voices in Crowd: Murmurs of agreement

Jones: You will. ’68 Chrysler run over your b– leg and keep you down for about three months. I– I’d say– I’d better sit down, that’d be better. (Pause) You don’t want to go yet. You know I know what kind of car you run around in.

Congregation: Laughs

Jones: They don’t like my language, honey. Even though Paul said I count all crap. He called it dung. In Hebrew that’s the dirtiest word. That’s the dirtiest word for S-H-I-T. He said I count all dung that I might know the revolution, the anointing, the Christ (Philippians 3:8, “Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ”). Cussing all through the Bible. Solomon talked about all of this stuff. They’d– They’d arrest Solomon today for pornographic literature. (pause) His is worse than, what is it, Green Doll or whatever it is. I didn’t go see it. Green light or some dumb stuff. I don’t know. [“Behind the Green Door”] (pause) You know, they got it– they got all this stuff now about pornographic literature, they’re afraid for people and all the things the preacher being doin’ in– in the private with the women, they don’t want it out now on the streets in the films. So they’re all worried about not having these films out where people can see them. And it’s very dangerous, when you start censoring things. Better– Where– Where you going? You might need to get healed. [M]ight have cancer in two years. You better– better watch where you’re going. I’m not talking to you, I’m talkin’ to the one behind you. I mean that I would like to keep people’s minds, and the only way to keep your minds attended is just– just tell them that they better– uh, if they walk, don’t walk back, ‘cause you won’t get a chance to walk back. (Pause) The woman that got her finger up, she’s all right. (Pause) If you leave, darling, don’t bother to return. I’m tired of people can’t take the truth.

Congregation: Scattered applause

Jones: I mean it. When the cancer eats your gut up, and eats your breast up, don’t you come near me, ‘cause I’m not going to help you. (Pause) Hands clasped. That’s the way it goes, that’s exactly the way it goes. I mean what I’m saying, I’m saying what I mean. I’m not going to– Now, I’m tired of people can’t take the truth. I’ve stood up here and told you nothin’ but the truth. Just because you want to hold on to a fairy tale. Said, my grandma believed in it. Yes, and your grandma and your great grandma, some of hers. She’s an Oriental and uh, Blacks. They– they– their grandparents believed in it. Your grandparents believed you should be a coolie. Chinese were treated like dogs. They were public property. Just because grandma reli– believed in it. Oh no, no. Best to get your mind straight. People decide though, they–­ they– they think about that cancer, they decide they’ll go to the toilet and not go– not go out.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: It’s all right. (Pause) They start home and then they decide they gonna get– they think about that cancer and then they– they say, I don’t care if he’s a– who he is. If he can get that thing off me, I’ll– I’ll just– I’ll just come back. I know their tricks. I’ve been– I’m way– I’m up to all the tricks they played on me. They set out to the door ready to do– mad and then I tell them a few little revelations, and they decide, now I’ll think about that. I’ll just go around the toilet and have a thought. (Pause) (Short laugh) There she was determined to go home. By the time she got to the door, she was determined to go home, but when she got outside here and said one more word to Sister Anderson, she just decided to go to the toilet. (laughs)

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: She talked to three people, and she was determined to leave, but you know it, there’s nothing like a cancer to cause some folk to stop and listen.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: Well, you say, that’s awful to get their attention. Well, they got a cancer in their brain.

Congregation: Calls

Jones: If I didn’t what– do anything but stop the cancer in their brain, I’d be doing a service. So if I’ve got to remind them of the cancer in their body, I’d better to do that to get that cancer out of their brain.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: This country is filled with dummies, (full preaching mode) dummies that’ll set back, when they come after Blacks, Indians, Jews, and Mexicans, and say it is God’s will. Dummies like that woman, the wife of a big scientist here today, dummies like that White woman. And dummies like that thirty-five-year old young White preacher, stood up in front of Blacks and say well, they all got what they deserve, the curse of Ham. Dummies! If he hadn’t been nothin’– if it had been– if he’d been hurtin’ us, you see, words can’t hurt us. Sticks and stones may break our bones, but words won’t hurt us. Now I’m not gone have no trouble over somebody’s words. But if he’da put a finger on one of those Black brothers, they’da carried him out in parts.

Congregation: Applause and calls

Jones: The worst murders get this Bible today. They’ll get it and they’ll– You’ll see all kinds of crimes. Seven people killed. The Lord told them to do it. Somebody down here, just in the lower peninsula, killed his wife, killed all of his children. God told him to do it. He read it in the Bible, where Abraham gave up his son. Abraham laid Isaac there, and gonna murder him (Genesis 22). Jephthah gave up his daughter. Jephthah made some kind of a stupid vow. That King James’ nuts. They oughtta locked him up. [If] I had him, I’d– I’d fix him up.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: King James– King James– Jephthah– Jepthatah went out and said, if you let me win the battle of Ammon, let me fight this battle, and if I win this battle, God, he said, I’ll make a blood sacrifice, the first one comes through my door. Well, Jephthah was a great prophet. Who came through his door? His daughter. He said, well, I’m sorry. He said, I’m gonna kill you. He said, you can go around and bemoan your fate for two– two months, and he let her go around bewailing her condition for two months, and after that, he burned her alive. That was the custom of the day, because Godtold him to do it (Judges 11).  That Bible’s filled with blood and gore. Lot– dirty old Lot– Lot had a couple of angels– Angels are supposed to be able to fly. Couple of messengers dropped in on Lot, and Lot was very honored that a couple of angels dropped in, but a mob got outside, they wanted get the angels. That makes no sense. Nothing in that book makes any sense. If they flew in, why didn’t they fly out?

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: But the angels flew in, and the mob comes and wants to get the angel, and Lot goes to the door. Lot– good old righteous Lot. He comes to the door and he says, I’ve got some young virgins, daughters here. My young daughters has never known any man. He says, now if you’ll spare the angels– stupid ass angels oughta been able to spare themselves– (Genesis 19:1-16)

Congregation: Applause

Jones: But he said if you– if you– Say, why are you talking this plain? Sometimes you got to talk this way. I’ll go months without saying any word, but as I said, the Bible is full of it. Paul– Solomon talks about nutty stuff. Solomon was such a little ego, he’s talking about who can piss the farthest over a wall.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: It’s in the Book of Solomon, talking about who can piss the– and it’s that word. He pisseth over a wall. I– I– I think it’s just stupid to figure out who could piss over the wall. That’s why I suppose all little boys have been doing it for the last 2,000 years. Every time they get the little, they get out and see who can do it the furthest (Could be 1 Kings 14:10).

Congregation: Stirs and applause

Jones: Remember, honey, when you get lonely– I know you’re all nervous and all shook up. I got some sister over there shook up till she feels really upset. Remember when you get homeless, there’ll be nobody take you in. These churches won’t take you in. They’d sweet talk you. They wouldn’t say a dirty word. Paul said dirty word, as I said, dung, and you go look it up, and that’s the worse word for a bowel movement you can find (Philippians 3:8). Oh yes, yes, those– you– you feel all upset with me, but when you get out of a home, there’s only one person gonna take you in.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Peace. When Sister Younger was losing her home last week, none of those sweet talk preachers did it. She was losing her home, $400, and I knew it by revelation and told her how much. And I put the cash on the barrelhead and I saved her home, because she’s one of my children. When Sister Robinson’s re– rich religious relatives were taking her money and stole her money so she didn’t have any food, I got all of a whole month’s money for her last week. Sister Atkins’ chil– children, when she didn’t have enough money to save her children, I got that, or Sister Mabel Johnson, when her son was being kept as a bond slave in a jail for $100, I got the $100, didn’t I? This week. I take care of my people. You may not like my talk, but I take care of my people.

Congregation: Enthusiastic applause

Jones: Peace. I could name a whole lot of others, but some others are complicated situations. I just don’t go into them. Not only do I take care of ‘em in the natural, but as I said, I take care of them in the supernatural. Like they were speaking– mentioning of this spister– this sister here that is Mexican. They made mention of it to you how I told her exact words to say, and her English is so broken. Her husband been beating on her, ‘cause she burned his Bible. He’s been cruelto her. Things I wouldn’t describe, I wouldn’t describe in this room what he’s done to her. So she took his Bible he’d been beating her with and burned it. And he charged her with burning the house down, ‘cause she burned his Bible. Gone take it– take her children away from her, was gonna put her in a mental institution. Had it all up. Called here, a good Christian he is. Carries his Bible around. He threatened– he was gonna do this to the church, he gonna kill this, gonna kill that one. Gonna hurt this one, gonna hurt that one. I said, “Okay, honey, I’m going to give you some words. Can you memorize them?” We worked with her for an hour. More than that. We worked with her for three hours. Over and over, I said, you say these words. He’s going there and he had a big-time lawyer, and he was going to take her children away from her, and put her in a mental institution just this Friday. Ha-ha. I said you follow these words, and I said I’ll cause him to be dumb. And when they got in the court, he was sitting there cocky and big, he had his attorney, and the attorney had it all down there that we practice voodoo and that we cause people to– uh, women to lose their mind and burn down houses, the attorney was all there ready to make his name in the papers. The old boy just got up, her old mean husband, the runt got up, just walked up and stepped on the plat– on the stand, sit down. He didn’t even know why he was sitting down. He set down, says– He– he didn’t even talk to his attorney, talked to our attorney says, I’ll give her two hundred.

Congregation: Calls and applause

Jones: His attorney got up with his papers, shakin’. He says what are you talkin’ about? You can’t do that. He said I’ll give her two hundred. And after he was through and got through, because she did what I did, she believed I was God, and she followed my word, and she kept it one hundred percent.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: She didn’t worship nothin’ she couldn’t see. She believed I was God, and she learned every word, and when she said that word in the s– court and came with the right attitude in that court, that caused him to lose his mind, and my mind took over.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Peace. The attorney said, you don’t have but three hundred and fifty. He said, I don’t care, I’ll give her two hundred. Then when it was over with, and it– some saw him afterwards. he was biting himself. He didn’t know why I did it. Well, we know why, because we got something that protects us.

Congregation: Enthusiastic applause

Jones: Young woman standing up there on Friday got free from the courts, due to bad associations. Someone used her and put her under drugs, but she signed checks after checks after checks. I said go, I’ll get you free, you’ll be in Redwood Valley. (chuckles) I went to the court, police found out I’d sent her, sent her away. She’d stole hundreds and hundreds of dollars – there she is standing up there, standing up there – they freed her, sent her home. Didn’t do a day, and she stole from some of the biggest sup– supermarkets. Checks, forged checks after check after check after check. Police come for her, say what are you doing, are you turning her in? And I said, yeah, it’s all right. They took the ta– uh, they took the name, took it down, they didn’t know what to do, they said, we never ever been used to anybody turn themselves in. (chuckles) Said, well, that is a crime, they’d get you anyway, ‘cause they got your signature. She went down, they took her in and got ready to book her, found out who’d sent her, let her out. I sent her at three o’clock in the morning and she was out at four o’clock.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Now she’s home free. Now she’s home free, all taken care of. It’s all taken care of. The court has cleared the case. Now you say, you don’t know why you should belong to this church. Honey, you better begin to ask why you don’t belong to this church.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: ‘Cause I’m a scrapper. [You] Say, I don’t want to call you God, I don’t like the name. I don’t care if you call me doggy. I don’t care what you call me, honey, just look to me. Give me your faith, give me your trust. Don’t call me Lord, because that’s another thing King James has used on us. Lord means the owner of slaves. Call me pastor, call me Jim, call me what you will, but as long as people are calling something in the sky God, I know some people here will be probably be calling me God.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: And as I said, Jesus said when they took him to the cross, It is written, ye are gods. He said, why do you call– crucify me for calling myself the Son of God? (John 10:34-36) He said those that come after me will do greater things than I (John 14:12, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father”). That’s what he said. He said I’m only the first born of many brethren (Romans 8:28-29, “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”), and they that come after me, these things shall they do, and greater because I have come and gone to the Father (John 14:12). He said it is written, ye are gods and sons of the most high (John 10:34-36). They say, you people believe he does greater things than Jesus. Well, of course. We never saw Jesus. All we got’s a black book.

Congregation: Light applause

Jones: (Voice rises throughout) It said Jesus walked on water. Were you there? (Matthew 14:25, “And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.”) They don’t even know who his granddaddy was (Matthew 1:1-17, compared to Luke 3:23-38). They don’t know whether he went to Egypt or whether he stayed. As I said in this radio tape, they don’t know whether he stayed in Egypt. One writer in the Bible says he never left Jerusalem. Another one said he fled from Herod. You can’t get one story straight. You don’t know what happened to him, how many miracles he did. You– How many loaves and fishes? All the stories change. Every time you read a miracle by Mark or Luke or John, it’s different. (Pause) One place it says immediately after he was baptized with the Holy Ghost, he went into the wilderness for forty days and forty nights, and was tempted of the devil. Another writer said three days later he was at Cana of Galilee, turning the water into wine, having a good time with a bunch of drunks. (Matthew 4:1-2, Mark 1:12-13, Luke 4:1-2; contrasted with John 1:32, 2:1, 2:9). It’s in the book. Now you read your Bible. Don’t look at me like you think I’mcrazy. You’ve been the nut. You’ve been the nut that’s followed that lie all your life.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: It’s hard and nutty stuff. People looking to me like they’ve fear that I’ve lost my mind. I can’t imagine how people been so idiotic, completely idiotic, when I’ve raised everybody from the dead, two hundred and twe– twelve to two-hundred-thirteenth one in Los Angeles Temple alone, and then three here in the last few hours. Three in the last few hours here, and I don’t know how many in this Temple. Between here and the embassy and the Benjamin Franklin. One man they brought to us, he wouldn’t give his offering. He thought– He said they said a word about the Bible, and he got outside and he m– made smart aleck remarks, said I wouldn’t give him a dollar. He fell dead. Bowel movement went all down his legs, caked on his legs. But I thought he’s a poor Black man, he doesn’t know any better. It’s hard for people– old dogs to learn new tricks.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: And they said what’re you gonna do with him. I said bring him in. They drug him in, you remember, he was stiff as a board. Bowel movement caked on him for twenty minutes, after he’d been a smart aleck. I laid over him, and there wasn’t nothing they could do, they– the medical people giving him shots, they give him a shot in the heart. They gave him everything they could do, oxygen, nothing would move him, and I worked and I worked and when I got through twenty minutes later, he was on his feet.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: You saw that. (Pause) But that’s not why we’re here. We’re here because in this country, as Time Magazine said, you’ve got to belong to a group, or you’ll be walked over in America. All the cases that come to me, someone does this or that or the other to them. They bother you, they’ll do something to you in a store, they’ll– they will be unkind to you at your work. How many times have we saved jobs? I remember back here, with Sister Grey, she was healed, it’s uh– Alisa Grey, it’s wonderful that she was healed, she was incurable, her heart was completely decomposed, I mean the– the uh– that isn’t the word that I want. What is it when heart– no, not heart– the heart decomposition, that’s what I want, and as the heart muscles had wasted away, and she got healed, when she couldn’t hold a job. Now she has a business and a job, but they wanted to fire her in her job. We had 150 letters and that– came back from that boss say, we’re afraid to do anything with Aretha Grey. Said, that church gets on your back.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: The owner was heard as saying, Channel 13, the– the owner of uh, this Hacienda Convalescent Home that was gonna fire a nurse there, we had 80 letters. He said, you don’t fool with those people. One of our sisters happened to overhear it, I won’t say who because it’d be– he was talking to the owner of the station, he said, don’t fool with those people. He said, don’t mess with those people. You fire one those people, they’ll all be around your house.

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: We’ve got 600 records here of saving jobs. People gonna push ‘em down or demote them, treating them b– bad because of their color, and when they got through, they were treating them bad because of their color, and you’da thought they were the queen of Sheba, when we got through.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: One woman they was going to put in the– the (unintelligible word) unit of a hospital and make her sort out the– the– the elimination, it was just a degrading thing. A pre– a machine could’ve processed it, but they took her out of the dietetics department, uh, she was a kitchen aide, when I got through dealing with that hospital, she was the assistant supervisor of the kitchen.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Case like this right now. Or you can– you can uh– George Lewis. Who’s uh– who knows George Lewis? (Pause) What about him? Is he a decent sort? Hmm? (Pause) No, I’m not talking about Harry, we got George Lewis.

George Lewis: I’m George Lew– I’m George Lewis.

Jones: No, you’re not George Lewis, are you?

George Lewis: Yes, I am.

Jones: Are you the one that impersonated a police officer?

George Lewis: No.

Jones: Then you’re not the one we’re looking for. Umm-hmm [No]. Here we got this kind of case, this is the kind of family we got. All the time they bring me these things, and I’ll be handling cases. Last night I got two out of jail, ‘cause somebody– one of our Black men, he’s just a new member, he hadn’t learned all our ways yet. And some White people uh, provoked him next door and he got mad and shot an officer. I got him out of jail while we were sitting in here. He was out of jail and home. Marsh. He was home, he was home while we were having our service.

Congregation: Light applause

Jones: Now we got a guy over in Reno in Washoe County, he impersonated a police officer, said he called a friend of him– uh, his in Dallas and said he was a police officer, Reno, just as a joke. And his friend, a good uh, minister, (chuckles) minister’s wife answered the phone and called the Reno police. You see, that’s where you preachers do you there. You see, this guy didn’t know whether he belonged– Now this is the same guy we sent thirty-five dollars to, I think to get him home.

(Voice too soft)

Jones: Yes, I think so. I asked him why he was in Reno. The secretary said, they said he was just there messing around, trying to get away from San Francisco, said he comes all time to church. Well, he must not be coming all the time if he’s over in Reno playing like a cop talking to a– a minster’s wife.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: Called police to give him a message. He wants us to send him a telegram too and to give– Jane Mutschmann send him one too, he wants us to tell Jim about this. Jim and (chuckles) yeah, and Jane too. He wants us to send someone up there to talk to a detective for him and get him out. I asked if he wouldn’t just send the money for– if we couldn’t send the money for bail. He said yes, but he still wants someone to go up there. He took a bus there and has a bus ticket to get him home. Bail set at $1500, but he needs a hundred and fifty dollars to get him out.

(Voice too soft)

Jones: He hooked– he hooked a church down there for thirty-five dollars? Let his ass stay in jail, I don’t know him.

Congregation: Sustained applause

Jones: You– you see here in the background? My associate minister, that’s the first one I’ve ever said, let him stay in jail. But my associate minister of the Los Angeles Temple said he pulled the same kind of a stunt down there and got in trouble and got our money. We’re not going to be taken by fools, and as they say, that’s how good they know we are, that anybody can call. He had a lot of nerve. He’s over there, he calls the minister’s wife, and she thinks so little of him that she says she called Reno police, when he’s playing a joke he said, or whatever he was. I wouldn’t do that to you. I’ll neverfink on one of you, if I knew. If I knew you’d harm the governor, they wouldn’t get it out of me.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: You say, oh, that’s wrong. (Draws out words) No, no, it isn’t wrong. There’s one ancient thing that slipped through, they’ve tried to get it out. The tax department, Internal Revenue, tried to get it changed, the whole government’s tried to change it, but it’s called the right of privilege of a minister. Anything I know about you, there’s no court in the land can make me tell what I know about you.

Congregation: Applause

 Jones: You could have murdered fifteen people and tell me, and there’s no court tribunal, there is no counsel that can make me tell what I know. Aren’t you glad?

Congregation: Shouts and applause

Jones: I feel sorry for this man, but when he’s come and he’s pulled this– Uh, that three stunts he’s pulled. Coming through here (unintelligible word) needed food and we give him 35 dollars, then he goes down there and pulled a stunt in Los Angeles, and gets in trouble and brings our name into it. You go tell that– you go– you call that police department and say we don’t know anything about that kind of behavior. And you tell them the mayor was here on Friday night, and if he wants to know what kind of a church we are, say the golden name– uh, drop our name and make a dirty name for us, you call and say we don’t know anything about it. Don’t know a thing about him.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: Nobody here knows anything about him, and that he’s crooked us. ‘Cause we’ve had– We had to save five homes of good people in the last few weeks. We can’t waste money on somebody that’s just conning us. If he comes to church all the time, what you doing over in Reno– Reno messing around? That’s the first person in all of my ministry that I’ve ever ref– refused, and my heart says he’s Black and stupid probably, doesn’t know what he’s doing, but after he’s bit us three times, we’ve got to pull the line someplace, or they’ll drain me to death.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: And I may change my mind and put a word in for him and try to get some little– little something done for him before I get through, but I– I’m not going to bring him back in here, you can bet– uh, bet on that. ‘Cause I’ve never once turned anybody away. That’s my nature, but it just aggravates me that he did that in Los Angeles, and uh– I get tired of people that take advantage of us. I really do get tired of it. I won’t put any of your money in it, I guarantee that, because I know that the majority feel that way. The majority probably without doubt, the majority feel that I should not put up that bail money, don’t you?

Congregation: Light applause

Jones: (low laugh) I was talking to one of our sisters down here in the credit union, I won’t mention her name. There’s only one church I ever had any faith in, little bit of faith. It was Th– It was Third Baptist, and she told me how she worked there many years ago in some capacity, and it was a shocking sort of thing that uh, jolted my– my– my thoughts. I’m just not used to people. Said I was saying when somebody came over here, deacon from Jones Memorial last night that came over to me. And he wanted me to help him get out of trouble, and I said they’d never been here. Wonder why people do that. She said, well, they probably expect to pay you, ‘cause she said, I know, I was working with pastors. She said they always charged if they helped anybody get out of trouble, the pastors charged on top of their anniversaries and their salaries, they’d charge their people. Can you imagine that? I said, can you imagine that?

Congregation: Stirs, murmurs of disagreement

Jones: What have we got? What hope have we got, when we got crooks like this in the churches? Charging for help to get somebody out of jail. Won’t go down and get them out of jail. ‘Cause this person was in a position to know. This person was in an official capacity to know. As I said, that loss– I didn’t have any faith in the rest of them, ‘cause I sure know the liar that’s over here on Sutter Street [George Bedford]. That man’s the dirtiest liar that ever walked on earth. Not only is he a reprobate that took two of my young girls and tried to get them in the bedroom, but he’s a liar, mean liar, and he heads the Baptist Alliance. No wonder they’re after me, ‘cause I tell on their lies. I can’t stand liars anyway, but it’s bad enough to have liars, but then to get up in the name of Jesus and be liars. He re– He never told me the truth once. I’ve never talked to George when he told me the truth once. George doesn’t know how to tell the truth. I mean, I feel sorry for him. Bedford does not know how to tell the truth. He’s the head of a Baptist Alliance, and he can’t tell the truth. It’s impossible. Garrison can tell you. He can lie to you, just straight faced, and just lie lie lie. He say they believe in Jesus, he told me he didn’t believe in the Bible. Let him sue me if it’s not true. He’s not about to sue me. (Short laugh) I’ve been telling three years on him.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: He don’t– he don’t want to face these two girls up here. He’s not about to get me in no court. The other day, somebody said over there in his church, Bedford church says, he’s going to sue you. I said I’ll bet you a million dollars he doesn’t. You don’t want to sue anybody when they got something on you.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: The best thing you do is keep your mouth shut and go on with what you’re doin’.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Disgusts me. You can say that? Sure.

Woman: I would like to say that– (mic thumps) Pardon me. I would like to say as far as this m– person you just spoke of, that he’s one of the biggest whoremongers and I can prove it and (unintelligible) San Luis Obispo and (unintelligible)

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: My heart aches, because that’s why I say we’ve got to stay– Sure she can prove it. I can prove it. It’s a terrible, terrible condition. That’s why you’ve got to stay together. The mayor stood here, the mayor, Johnson, Deputy Mayor [Joe] Johnson, said Friday, he said you people are the only hope for Blacks. He said, when you run your buses to leave this country when the– when the bomb comes, when they really take over, he said, save me a place.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I suppose he’s one of the most prominent politicians in the town, but he said this is the only group that’ll fight for its own. And we’ll fight for people. We got one– the man on KGO who was fired and we fought for him, he never even come back to say thank you. We got his job back. They fired him on KGO, Black man, we got his job back, he never even came back to say thank you. They do it all the time, but that’s not the question, so don’t ask why you need the church. We wouldn’t be here for– just for religion, but there is as a fact as I said when you are close to me, there’s an energy that flows from me. I’ve learned that energy that is amazing. The things that die, plants will begin to grow, people that’re sick, they get healed just being in my contact. So that’s why we have an assembly. Then of course we discuss business and plans, ‘cause we’ve got a plan for every emergency. We’ve got land to get out of here. Not gonna happen to us what happened to the Jews. We’ve got a place to get out of here. You don’t have to think. Oh, you say, it won’t ever happen– (Clears throat) (Pause) Wake that sister up. (Pause) That’s good. She’s too young to be asleep. (Pause) I say in closing, the publisher who belongs to our church that owns the Herald in Los Angeles, 1600 cases that they have proven for Black people’s brains have been drilled on – it’s in every one of your newspapers – psycho-surgery, and their brain is permanently damaged. All of our Black sons that go to these concentration camps today, and Senator [Edward] Brooke said, you don’t have to say that we’re going to have concentration camps, our one Black Senator says, we already havethem. Because eighty percent of the people in the prisons are Black. Only ten to fifteen percent of the population’s Black, but the people that go to the jails are always Black or Indian or Mexican. Ninety-some percent make up the– uh, if you take in some of these prisons, Mexican and Indians and Black. That’s who ends up in the jails. It’s not what you know, it’s who you know, or how much money you’ve got. And how many times I walked in, as I did on (clears throat) the Bakerboy, walked into the court, and they had him, the judge standing there, that White judge sayin’, you don’t have to worry. I’ve been a judge for 40 years, he said, just– just say or plead to (stumbles over words) guilty to this charge in the night court, and he said, it’ll be all right. And the young boy didn’t know what he was getting into, he was signing an indeterminate sentence. They coulda kept him from one year to the rest of his life. That’s the way it is in California. I walked in there and I said, judge, I beg to see this young man. He said, this court’s– this trial’s just about finished. I said, if it is finished, I’ll have a thousand people around here, because I said, you’ve told this young man wrong. He has no– he has no lawyer, and you’ve told him that you’ll be his friend, that you’ll give him legal advice. They do it all the time. And I said, if you want a thousand people around here, I’ll have it. And before I got through, I took him out of that court and home, and he never went back.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Let him standin’ all over here. Just somebody stand up for them. Jackson there, gonna be in for years, Brown, woulda been in for years, but I wouldn’t let them. The young woman I just mentioned, shoulda been in there for years. You walk what I do– and when the problem comes, I just walk my people in the courtroom, the judge begins to go (makes sounds of nervous distress).

Congregation: Laughter, followed by scattered applause

Jones: One ol’ fella, Cooper– there’s another one of those renegades, ingrate, over in Nevada someplace. Remember Cooper? All the people was in the line, the Whites and Black, they all got five years, they come to him, he said, because you were in Jones’ church, because his church is here, we’ll let you off without a day. And he come to church two weeks, and the rascal’s been gone ever since. (Pause) Yeah, he’s (unintelligible word)– he’s sick now, though. You look him up. He’s sick. (Pause) I’m talkin’ unnecessarily long, but I want to get something across to you, why you’re a church, why we are a group, why we are a family. How many times I’ve had people bothering neighbors, bothering– but when our group got in, they stopped it. How many times health department was going to condemn a building, or how many times pensions were gonna be cut off, how many times welfare was gonna be cut, we get my people in there and it’d be stopped.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: So if you’ve got a problem, you should go down–

End of tape

Originally posted on February 8th, 2021.

Last modified on July 10th, 2021.
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