Q995 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Singing of several young people for 3:30, song about going on a socialist holiday.


(Tape edit)

Music distorted by compromised tape through 4:05.

Tape recorded at wrong speed through 5:00.

Music distorted by compromised tape through 5:35.

Singing of several young people through 6:22.

(Tape edit)

Jones: (sings) –keep me true, dear Father. Lead me through. Keep me true. (Speaks) It’s a tough thing to be true. I watch some of you, it’s a tough thing, it moves itself into the other, often the other level. So easy to forget the sadness. And I don’t know how we can afford to be too happy, too happy, until the injustice that’s happening in the world stops. (Sings) Each hour, give me power, to be true. (Speaks) Sing it. (Sings) Give me true–

(Tape edit)

Jones: (Speaks) – heart would break as I thought of Martin Luther King, keep the melody flowing, maybe some can get it. My heart would break as I thought. You can go ahead and play. Keep me true. It ought to be the theme till it’s deep down in our souls. Hear Martin Luther King sit up in front of a mass of people, and he said uh, I just have a vision, a dream, a dream that the son of the plantation owner – that broke my heart – and the son of a Georgian slave can sit in the same school. Sit down and just be friends. He didn’t say anything. He didn’t say anything. I don’t mean he wasn’t trying. He was trying hard. But he didn’t say anything. Because you can never sit down, until an economic system removes the barriers. And uh– he knew that. In a way, he was playing it safe, but in another way, he was playing it, hoping maybe that little by little, they could change people’s minds and not tell what really is the truth that keeps people apart. The class system. Racism all comes out of the class system. Thing we see in our owbn ranks that we have to fight, elitism, because we think that we were educated better, we had a little more position, more privilege. And we’ve given a little more sacrifice of ourselves, little more narcissistic than we should be. That’s what causes racism. Separation. People having so much wealth, and others having nothing. The uppers and outers looking down upon the down-and-outers. There’re many varied forms in which it happens. And racism is one of its ugliest.

Yeah, I think of tonight, the guy who wrote about us, Guy Wright. Guy who had some soul, felt like– He felt like he had a little soul. He hadn’t written anything against us. But he did, in that he wrote, he makes nothing but miserable mockery of Steve Biko’s death in the Examiner. I thought, in six months– six months, what’s happened? What’s happened to our nation? He lost his ability to be true, and he even justifies apartheid. Then he scathes– he scathes the black leaders of Uganda and Nigeria, and Mukasa. He scathes them and makes allegations of them being kind of like jungle bunnies. He said, naturally, we expect more out of a John Vorster than an Idi Amin. But all through the whole article is sympathy for South Africa. They only men– They only murdered five million people. That’s all. Steve Biko was only beat to death by a racist police. The next article I pick up, cops are cleared, and the whole goddamn system clears them. And then right across from whatever place you look, Rhodesian army atrocities, American photo– photographer took a picture of a Rhodesian lieutenant holding interrogation bats over black people as he’s beating them down to the ground.

Our people passed out literature, they’ve been passing out, they’ve been in a vigil. The last vigil, ten-to-one, were– were mean. Ten-to-one on the streets. Shouting hate, giving looks ready to murder them, in the streets of San Francisco. Terrible dither in your mind. Yes, one woman stepped out. She cried. Some bank official– this is what they do, but when they wanted to get her name, she wouldn’t give her name. The ones that had any tears or any feeling were afraid, they were terrified. And here’s a guy who was setting in our Temple, just about seven months ago. No longer. And he set in the midst of us, black and white, with feeling. And now he says that uh, the South Africans are right. (Pause)

America’s in a hell of a lot of trouble. I watch some of you, and I appreciate the rhythm and the dance, but you– uh, you can get with that, but you can’t at all move– you can’t move with any of the sorrow, the pity, the sadness of it all, that you can’t move with these– these skits. These children were putting on very, very grave and horribly realistic skits. And I thought how the system is going to subtly brainwash. We dance off any seriousness. That would be a mistake with the dance (unintelligible phrase). That’s exactly what I (word under electronic failure). I’m glad it happened, because it showed me just how easily we forget. Right in the midst of a room where there’re people, I– I– I’m– I’d– I’m a gentle person, I look back there and I see people who don’t even listen, who don’t give a fuck. I look at them from this (unintelligible word), don’t ever forget ‘em. They’re not listening now, because they think– I’m not raising my voice. Don’t ever forget ‘em, security. Watch them. Look at ‘em. Look at ‘em. Turn around. Turn around and look at ‘em. Oh, now they wake. Now they awake. Now they look. Now they quit doing what they’re doing. They don’t feel. They won’t themselves feel very long. They’re elitist. They think they have a right, special right. The one man, Steve Biko, one man, and here’s how they do. And they– they’re justifying it. Black (unintelligible word) down with bullet– with the police putting guns to their heads. And they’re headlining it all through the Chronicle and Examiner, getting us ready. Get us ready to accept it. And I don’t know how we made it. Portugal didn’t make it. They tried the same thing on us this week. I’m uh– I’m confounded with the miracle of Peoples Temple, ‘cause some of you– some of you, you move, you move only because others move. It’s not in you. Maybe one day you’ll go through the motions long enough, and it’ll happen. I hope. Maybe the heart of a liberationist will beat in you. Maybe the sympathetic soul of a communist will somehow grow in you. Now, you can tell when they– they slip off to the sides, the edges, further back, so they can’t be seen, they never get up where they can be seen. They could, if they wanted to come and get here. There oughta be a law, there ought to be a defense committee for the revolution to demand that they get in. Maybe– maybe the absorption would take place. I saw when Mom [Vera Marie] Talley, who’s lost all of her children in the– in the fields. She got moved by the song of overcoming joy of her leader, her savior, they were singing to liberate her. And people literally standing back there and laughing. And I thought, oh, what have I birthed. What have I birthed.

I know some of you are tired, very tired, you made a big dinner for us. And I can understand that. I could be sympathetic with tiredness. ‘Cause I’m very, very tired. My voice shows how very, very tired I am. Been tired for as long as I can remember. This week, this little group of people, barely under a thousand, withstood. I can confidently see the same thing here, that happened in Portugal that caused the socialist government to tumble. The International Monetary Fund, and that’s what this foreign minister was telling me they were doing to us, doing to him, threatening him with money. The minority socialist government of Prime Minister [Mario] Soares will fall this week in a dispute over austerity. Measures demanded by the International Monetary Fund– that’s the big banking class of the ruling monopoly capitalist. Political sources here said today, the socialists are clinging to a cracked branch, and everyone seems to be shaking in the tree, one source said. Soares faces the prospect of either researching– uh, reaching a rapid co– compromise with the opposition to his right on stricter budgeting and cutting down of services to the poor, cutting down aid to developments for poor people. Austerity, they call it – it’s a nasty word – for cutbacks on medical care for the oppressed, housing for the oppressed, aid and education for the poor. Unless he comes to a r– rapid compromise with the opposition to his right on austerity moves, or handing in the resignation of his 16-month old government. Political sources said, the crunch would come by Friday – it did, he fell on Friday – at the latest, when the government is expected to submit a vote of confidence motion in Parliament. They said Soares will almost certainly fall, and fail in rallying enough ballots, from the pressure of the International Monetary Fund, the big banking capitalist of the U.S. The crisis was triggered by MI– IMF, the International– International Monetary Fund demands that a national political consensus be reached before it buoyed Portugal’s sinking economy. Portugal’s economy was failing, and it demanded that there be a total consensus of the population, or it would not give any loans. The opposition had threatened to boycott the loan package and its belt-tightening measures, unless it was given a voice in the government. So the CIA works in many ways, gets the opposition parties to refuse to go along. Soares responded to the IMF’s conditions by issuing­– issuing an ultimatum: support the government, or we will go down into bankruptcy. We’ll fall together. He would not resign. The communists said they would go along to bring about this consensus so that we could save the nation. But the centrist Socialist Democrats and the conservative center Democrats balked, demanding a tripart– tripartite coalition govern– government, excluding– putting out all communists. They won. In talks with these parties last week, Soares refused to budge. The political deadlock and the prospect of Soares’ resignation already have generated pre-election partisan activity, and he lost, because he wouldn’t bow. And there’s a state of uproar in Portugal, as the capitalist tentacles reach clear across the Atlantic Ocean.

We’re much closer. They tried to reach here. They tried to reach so desperately to us on whatever goddamned day it was, as they all to me go on into another, because the Steve Bikos continue to be murdered, I hear their cry, I hear their anguish. I see the do-gooders like King try to just simply get the white man to let the black man sit down with the white man, and they murdered him at 39. And some of you want to go back to that mess. I look at this white young man as we send his letter off, and I wonder, what kind of a creature are you? What are you? What makes you tick, that you’d want to go back to a place that murders off a man like Martin Luther King. No, don’t bother to get up. I’ve sent your letter. 39, 39 years. He dies. All he asks was a dream. I have a dream, that someday the son of the plantation owner and the son of a slave will sit down together. And they cut him down, that my four children will be able to grow up, where there’ll be no more, that a black will have to go to the back of the bus. No more a black will hold a lesser job than a white, and here we have people who were on our side, now going over calling for apartheid. He literally calls for apartheid in the United States. And you want to go back to that. And I have to sit and look at you till you go back. Oh, God, that’s a– that’s hard. It wouldn’t be hard if you’d repent, but oh God, to sit and look at somebody that wants to go back. Here’s a man who set in us, supped with us, cried with us. And now he writes in the Examiner, separatism’s the only way.

Even Muhammad Ali in all of his madness, all of his sickness, worrying about his children and he can’t get to his children, and crying every night, he says, we need black separation. And he breaks down and cries before the television. We’re going to have to be separated, because the white man’ll kill us. I read you the news (unintelligible word). Indians wiped out. Russell Means wiped out. The American Indian Movement wiped out. Dennis Banks comes to Sacramento for his hearing, nobody there but Peoples Temple. The goddamn Indian (unintelligible word) moverment’s gone. Glued on this kind of stupid music that we watch here. Glued on this fucking, goddamn miserable superficiality that we promulgate.

Now, that’s fine. We need it. It’s nee– It’s necessary to in– in– get ourselves a– of some sort of inroad into a culture that’s still very mixed-up with capitalism. But when you can get interested in a musical rendition and go to sleep– and I mean children, I’ve watched you, finger and joke and fiddle. While little kids are telling you a dramatic message, you slept, fucker. I watched you. The only way you’d keep awake is she’d push you. You’re not sedated now. Doctors not worrying with you no more, ‘cause your spirits are high, you’re going home to momma. Oh, oh, God. Pacifism. I heard him say, hate is our enemy. (Cries out) Oh no, it’s not our enemy. (Voice raised) Love and self-indulgence is our enemy. Hate’s not our enemy. If we don’t hate that system, they’ll kill us. They reached out to cut the throats of one of our youth, and had him right by the neck. But the tide turned. They shot right through and tried to kill Al Simon, an Indian, and my son, Jim Junior. They tried to murder us. They’ve tried to murder Mother [Marceline Jones]. They tried to poison the goodest, the best, the– one of the sweetest women that could ever walk, they tried to poison her. A good woman that never harmed anybody. And they shot down Chris [Lewis], and they all Uncle Toms participated, and now find that we have to quiver with hate, that the Olivers [Bruce and William] have to feel that they’d know their parents [Howard and Beverly Oliver] were involved with the shit, because their attorney that come here was one of the murderers. (Voice moderates, then rises) No, hate’s not my enemy. Don’t fuck with me. It wasn’t love that moved this goddamn government and gave it the backbone to stand up to the International Monetary Fund. It wasn’t some kind of sweet talk that caused them to move. I said, here we stand. We shall not be moved.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Like a tree planted by the water, we shall not be moved.

Crowd: Right.


Jones: (Calms) You may be seated. They’re still killing our Indian brothers. They had a film on about the prison system, the rapes, the officers standing off and participating and encouraging blacks to kill Indians, and Chicanos to kill Indians, and Indians to kill blacks, and poor whites to kill ever– everybody else, so that the prison systems will take care of all their working class that they can’t give jobs for, the only crime, three million some Americans have today, in prison. Only goddamn crime. They were too poor to afford an attorney. Well, there’re many more than that in jail, but I’m (cries out) talking about three million, the only crime they committed (voice moderates) was they were too poor, they were working class. And some of you don’t have it in you. And we still won. They’re trying to do the same thing to this country, they’re trying to back ‘em to the wall. (cries out) I don’t give a fuck if they cut off their aid. He said, they’re gonna cut off aid. I don’t give a fuck. Fuck the aid that comes to Guyana. I didn’t come over here to compromise. I didn’t come over here to start that shit, I did that in America all my days, I’m not gone do that anymore.

Crowd: Calls and applause.

Jones: (calms) Peace. So if they want to squeeze this socialist government, they can squeeze them in Georgetown, but they still got to march out here.

Crowd: Yeah.

Jones: We’ll still be on this hill.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Some people say, I– I– The sister say, I wouldn’t– I don’t how many would come, if they’d known of the crisis. Well, fuck them, too.

Crowd: Calls.

Jones: We’ve lived in crisis all of our life. Somebody said, they oughta tell ‘em. No, no, we’re not telling ‘em. Nobody told us. And I came knowing that life isn’t any merry-go-round, and it’s still given us more joy in these months, if it finishes tomorrow. ‘Cause we had purpose. We had a principle. We’ve learned a little bit about caring. Go through these houses, you ought to take a walk on the next holiday, this weekend, and just walk around and see the sharing in those small spaces. Making every little rafter, every little bed, some just as neat as a pin. So clean and so beautiful. Sure, long, long, long way to go. And by God, I’m glad we started.

Crowd: Yeah. (Scattered applause)

Jones: I don’t want to be back in a country where a man gets up and begs. I’ve got a dream. I just want my four children to grow up and then (makes sound of gunshot). They splitted his brains out and lay his blood on a motel fence. And now we find out the FBI does it, and when our people passing out leaflet, (voice lowers to rasp) I don’t give a goddamn. Don’t give a fuck. Don’t give me that. Don’t give me that. I don’t give a fuck. You care that they killed Martin Luther King? What the hell do I care? You care that they killed President [John F.] Kennedy? What the hell do I care? (Intense) That’s a mean bunch. You oughta be glad we got a lot of trees between us. We got a chance to fight here. They haven’t got a ghost of a chance. I’d– I’d hate, if I was scared. I have sort of a penchant to be back there, because I’d like to take a few fuckers. But it wouldn’t be revolutionary. Wouldn’t serve a thing, ‘cause nobody gives a fuck. Down the streets they came. A few cried, and a few showed interest, and some grabbed their heart. That’s McCarthyism all over again. It’s a beginning of a police state. But they run. Not one, not one gave their name. Everybody’s scared shitless. And the ones that weren’t scaring were threatening to shoot ‘em right there as they walked down the streets. America, this chap wants to go home to. There’s some others that’re not telling that they’d like to go there, too. But the likes of you. I’m glad to be free of it.

Crowd: Murmurs.

Jones: Wait’ll that economy that’s crumbling all over the world. See, they’re happy to tie it up in Portugal because it’s about to fall apart in US. We haven’t got enough money to go around. So they can’t help– they can’t help but tie it up. They’d rather work with Soares than they get the mess they’re getting into, in some ways, I’m sure some elements, but the– all the whole goddamn capitalist world is reeking and rocking like an earthquake. And when the money system falls, and all of a sudden you wake up to a 1929. Some of us remember. And there’re no goddamn job, and you go to the bank, and you can’t get your own money, and they got you to– ten-mile long line, and saying, fuck you, you ain’t got no money. You want to be in America? Shit. You wanna be in there? They’re meaner today, they’re so much meaner today than they were in 1929, it’s like comparing ancient history. It’s feudalistic. Think a man like Guy Wright could sweep over and justify apartheid, when you read this goddamn newspaper. I seldom can stand it. But you read through it, and you see, they’re setting us up. Setting us up. It’s all right. Whole goddamn article after article say, it’s only right. And now they’ve whipped up. Say, why don’t the– the Chronicle’s editorial– Why don’t the Poles object? Why don’t the– uh, the Jews object? Why don’t the Italian-Americans object? Why don’t all these ethnic minorities object? They’re not getting any special admission privileges. And naturally, that whipped them all out. They all come out of their holes. Now they’ve got an alliance of Italian-Americans and Scandinavian-Americans, and everybody else lining up against the Indians and blacks so they can’t get into medical school. It’s so fucking explosive. Right now. And they’ve still got jobs. But it’s so fucking explosive, that you must be crazy to want to be there.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: You must be crazy. You ain’t white enough. Some other white fellow wants your loaf of bread. There’s always somebody that want what you got. And I don’t know what you do with people. I– I know I don’t want to be there, ‘cause I see how hard it is to get people straightened around that’ve come from there. I sure don’t want to go back to it. That’s why I made up my mind, at least I– one alternative’s dead in me. One alternative’s dead. When I heard the pain crackling over that radio the other night, and heard how our people were treated as they walked down the streets. I ain’t got nothing to do in the US. And I know they’ll get me, in the front line, ‘cause I’ll be there, but I know some of you that’d sit through, you’ll get back there and take care of the sons-of-bitches. You take care of the sons-of-bitches–

Crowd: Right.

Jones: –that did what they did. You’ll not let them forget. Do not forget that we have absolute proof, not theory. We have proof that [Tim] Stoen and Mertles [Elmer and Deanna] and all these sons-a-bitches asked that Chris be got out of the way. We have proof that Chris got on to Warden, whatever his name is, Donald Warden, the lawyer, the black sellout, the–

End of Side 1

Side 2

Jones: –Georgetown with uh, his assistant. We’ve got proof that Chris had on his own gone on instead of following Father, like some of you want to do something on your own, but you don’t know what it is to plan. The only way we can save everybody is to plan. [You] May be seated. Got into it one day and a half, and they shot him down. Set him up, let his money on him, contract killing. Three of ‘em, though, it took three to come after him. They knew they better not come after Teddy-Bear with any less than three. And they got a crossfire. Same thing happened to Kennedy. I (stumbles over words) reviewing the horrors of Kennedy, and the FBI files show that (short laugh)– just shows, shows now that’ve been revealed, five thousand eight hundred pages of it, shows that the FBI was clear in it up to their fucking neck. [Lee Harvey] Oswald was sent to Russia in the first place to appear as a Communist agent. Nobody ever got– I– I thought, God, how we could be so stupid. He denounced his goddamn citizenship in Russia. His wife [Marina Oswald] was a daughter of a colonel in the KGB, the secret se– uh, the secret police that protects the Soviet Union. No– and she was in the Communist Youth. And it hit me, nobody ever gets into the United States that’s a member of a Communist organization. That’s the law. You don’t get in there. They never broke that law ever. If you had anybody in a Commu– you can come in with all the fucking Nazi background, they’ve got ‘em all over the States. We can– We stepped on a hornet when we stepped on the Nazis. We didn’t realize there was so many of those old Nazis. Some of us thought they just little ol’ goose-stepping new– they– they– they were just little–

End of tape.