Q164 Transcript

This tape was transcribed by Adrian Whicker. The editors gratefully acknowledge his invaluable assistance.

To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3.
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Music by the Jonestown Express

Song 1: “Betcha By Golly Wow” by the Stylistics

Shirley Baisy: (sings) There’s a spark of magic in your eyes
Candyland appears each time you smile
Never thought that fairy tales come true
But they come true when I’m near you
You’re a genie in disguise
Full of wonder and surprise
Oh, betcha by golly, wow
You’re the one that I’ve been waiting for forever
And ever will my love for you keep growin’ strong
Keep growin’ strong
If I could, I’d catch a falling star
To shine on you so I’ll know where you are
Order rainbows in your favorite shade
To say I love you, thinking of you
Write my name across the sky
Full of wonder and surprise
Oh, betcha by golly, wow
You’re the one that I’ve been waiting for forever
And ever will my love keep growin’ strong
Keep growin’ strong
Oh-oh, betcha by golly, wow
You’re the one that I’ve been waiting for forever
And ever will my love for you keep growin’ strong
Whoa, keep growin’ strong

Another woman, likely Shirley Hicks: (calls out the next song) Rolling on the River! Here we go!

[Tape edit]

JJ Tumbles [Greg Watkins]: And now ladies and gentlemen, here’s Slick Rick Moore [Rev. Edward Moore] and the Black Sheep. Let’s get some hands together for Slick Rick Moore.

Song 2: “Proud Mary” by Creedence Clearwater Revival

Moore: (sings): I had a good job in the city
Working for the man every night and day
Never lost a minute of sleeping
Worrying ‘bout the way things may have been
Big wheel keep on a-turnin’,
Proud Mary keep on a-burnin’,
Rollin’, rollin’, rollin’ on a river
Rollin’, rollin’, rollin’ on a river
If you come down to the river
Bet you gonna find some people who live
You don’t have to worry if you have no money
The peoples on the river are happy to give
Rollin’, rollin’, rollin’ on a river
Rollin’, rollin’, rollin’ on a river
Cleaned a lots of plates in Memphis,
Pumped a lots of ‘panes in New Orleans,
I never saw the good side of the city,
Until I hitched a ride to the river boat queen.
The big wheel keep on a-turnin’,
Proud Mary keep on a-burnin’,
Rollin’, rollin’, rollin’ on a river
Rollin’, rollin’, rollin’ on a river
I had a good job in the city
Working for the man every night and day
I never lost a minute of sleeping
Worryin’ ‘bout the way things may have been
Big wheel keep on a-turnin’
Proud Mary keep on a-burnin’
Rollin’, rollin’, rollin’ on a river
Rollin’, rollin’, rollin’ on a river
Rollin’, rollin’, rollin’ on a river
Rollin’, rollin’, rollin’ on a river

[Tape edit]

Song 3: “Proud Mary” by George Gershwin

Woman [Likely Deanna Wilkinson]: (sings) Summertime
And the livin’ is easy
Fish are jumpin’
And the cotton is high
Oh, your daddy’s rich
And your mama’s good lookin’
So hush little baby
Don’t you cry
One of these mornings
I’m gonna rise up singin’
Then I’ll spread my wings
And I’ll take to yonder skies
But until that mornin’ comes
There ain’t nothin’ gonna harm me
With Mama and Daddy standin’ by
Oh-oh-oh, Summertime, summertime, summertime, summertime, summertime
And the livin’ is easy, easy
Fish are jumpin’
And the cotton is high
Oh-oh-oh-oh, your daddy’s rich
And your mama, your mama’s good lookin’
So hush little baby
Don’t you cry

Crowd: Applause

[Edit]

Lee Ingram: –both parts right in order– in order to get the whole question right. In what country did fascism first occur, is the first question, and how did the word Nazi originate? Okay, let’s see. All right. Okay, Shawntiki [Johnson].

Shawntiki Johnson (Verna Lisa Johnson): Fascism first occurred in Italy–

Ingram: Okay, that’s the first part right.

Shawntiki: And the word Nazi originated from the National German’s Workers Party, it was a socialist front, and [Adolf] Hitler used it to trick the people.

Ingram: Right, trick the working people. Very good, very good, that’s right.

Crowd: Applause

Ingram: Okay. Fascism was the response to something– Listen close to the question, now, or– or to the– okay, to the situation. Fascism was a response to something that happened that showed workers that power could be wrenched from the bourgeoisie. What event was this? Okay? Did everybody understand the question? Want me to repeat it again?

Crowd: Yeah.

Ingram: Okay. Fascism was a response to something that happened that showed the workers or the working class that power could be wrenched or wrestled away from the bourgeoisie. What event was that? Okay, how about our librarian, Teresa [King]?

Teresa King: Okay, Uh, the October 1917– uh, 17 revolution–

Ingram: Right.

King: –uh, showed the whole world that the working class could take power and actually achieve a– a state government and, uh, it was a threat to the capitalists of the world because in all the countries around the world, they begin having uprisings of the working class because they’d been inspired by this revolution, and so in order to defeat the working people, they put the fascist government into control.

Ingram: Very good. Very good.

Crowd: Applause

Ingram: Okay, okay, this is a three-part question now. Okay, now listen closely. Who are the leaders of the Patriotic Front–

Crowd: Stirs

Ingram: Okay, wait. Oh, my goodness. Wait, now wait, wait. Let me finish. Let me finish. Which one is a nationalist, and which one is a Marxist-Leninist?

Crowd: Stirs

Ingram: Ooooh! Oooh! Let me see, let me see, let me see. Okay, Celeste [Celeste Davis/Celeste Vento]. Okay.

Celeste: (off mic) Robert Mugabe–

Ingram: Wait, wait, turn the microphone on now so she can get her treat, `cause everybody know that.

Celeste: Robert Mugabe and Joshua Nkomo. Robert Mugabe’s a Marxist and–

Ingram: A Marxist what?

Celeste: Leninist–

Ingram: All right–

Celeste: –and Joshua Nkomo’s a nationalist.

Ingram: Okay, can I ask you one more question? Can I ask you one more question? Let’s see, uh, a Marxist-Leninist means what?

Celeste: When he cares about all the countries, and nationalist is when they care about one country.

Ingram: Oh good, yeah, you beat me to the other question. Very good, give her a hand, that’s good.

Crowd: Applause

Ingram: Oh, that’s terrible. [chuckles] What happened to the pope, y’all?

Crowd: Laughs. Calls out: “He died.”

Ingram: This is terrible. Who made up these questions? [Laughs] This is terrible. What happened to the pope? OK, Karl? Karl? Well, he’s right here, he’s right there. This is terrible.

Karl Newell: He just died of a heart attack.

Ingram: Where did he die? In his bed?

Karl: In his bed.

Ingram: Oh, that’s terrible.

[Crowd and Karl laughter]

Ingram: How long had he been pope?

Karl: Just two months.

Ingram: Boy, God didn’t hear him, did he?

Crowd: Laughter and low conversation

Ingram: Okay, that’s terrible, boy. Now, I know I’m gonna get somebody on this one. What’s happening in Nigeria? You think you know, number 12? Luigi [Lemoyne Newman]? Okay, you know that one too?

Luigi: All right. Nigeria caught [President Jimmy] Carter trying to– trying to get the oil from the businesses, and the president and Britain went to Nigeria to talk about Libya, and uh, [pause] and uh, [stammers and consults with others in the crowd off mic]

Ingram: Take your time.

[Luigi continues consulting with others off mic]

Ingram: Can you add anything else to that?

Luigi: And– [Luigi continues consulting with others]

Ingram: Okay. Uh. The Prime Minister is going to have– uh, is going to talk about Zambia, and Ni– and Nigeria is moving more and more to the?

Voice in crowd: Left.

Ingram: To the left. Very good. Okay. Can anybody tell me, what is Zionism? What is Zionism? Okay, Christa [Amos].

Christa: Zionism is– Zi– Zionism is Jewish nationalism and today [stutters], today it’s occurring in– in Israel.

Ingram: Okay. Very good. Thank you. That’s right. You’re right.

Crowd: Applause

Ingram: Okay, who is [Zbigniew] Brzezinski? Now, everybody should know that one. Come on now, lemme see a whole bunch of hands on that one.

Crowd: Stirs, boos

Ingram: Since many people know this, we outta throw this one out, huh?

Crowd: Stirs

Ingram: Oh, okay, Alfreda [March], let’s see if you know.

Alfreda: `K, Bre– Brzezinski had more power than [Henry] Kissinger ever– ever had or ever dreamed of. Brzezinski was put in power by David Rockefeller. Brzezinski didn’t go around bragging about his power, but Kissinger did. The best thing that happened was when David Rockefeller was killed by a young, suicidal man [Rockefeller died of natural causes in 2017] and he– he wanted to do something with his life. And Brzezinski, he– that made him the head of the Trilatical [Trilateral] Commission. And Brzezinski– I mean the Trilatical Commission picked– handpicks the uh, presidents and stuff, and he didn’t care if he got a paycheck or a [unintelligible word], and he– instead he picked Jimmy Carter, because Jimmy Carter didn’t know his way to the bathroom in Washington, D.C.

Crowd: Laughs uproariously

Ingram: Thank you very much. That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. (Pause) Oh my. The things we learn over here. Okay. Whose idea– She’s already given you one– one answer, right? Whose idea was the Trilateral Commission? Whose idea was that? Whose idea? Whose idea? Okay, Daren. [Aside to some people in the audience]: Shh, you guys stop, stop.

Daren [likely Janaro or Swinney]: It was David Rockefeller’s or the Chase Manhattan Bank and Brzezinski, the national security advisor and Carter’s first aide.

Ingram: Okay, thank you. Very good.

Crowd: Applause

Ingram: Why was the Trilateral Commission set up? Who can answer that? Why was the Trilateral Commission set up? Steve?

Crowd: Chuckles and murmuring

Ingram: Where’s Don Jackson?

[Don Jackson speaking away from mic, too low]

Ingram: [away from mic] I thought he knew the answer.

Don Jackson: The capitalist world uh, was having a crisis back in 1971, and they were desperate and then they had to uh, organize to try to, uh take over the reins of uh, political power.

Ingram: Okay, very good.

Crowd: Applause

Ingram: Okay, can anybody tell me who was put on the Trilateral Commission? (Pause) Can anybody tell me who is on the Trilateral Commission? OK, Albert [Touchette].

Crowd: Murmuring

Albert: Okay, uh, people put on the Trilateral Commission is like big corporation leaders, like the B of A [Bank of America], Exxon, uh, Shell [Oil], big auto manufacturers, and banks. And they put on big uh, big labor bosses, and big media people, and they put on just other– other important individuals so they could appease these, the Democrats and the liberals and the Blacks, `cause they even put uh, Andy [Andrew] Young on the uh, Trilateral Commission.

Ingram: Very good, Albert, very good.

Crowd: Applause

Ingram: Okay, what was the Trilateral m– Trilateral Commission going to do about the US government? Can anybody answer that? That’s a really uh– an opinion question. Let me ask one more time. What is the Trilateral Commission going to do about the US government? And you going to really get some in-depth on that one. Okay, Bob, you try it.

Bob: Uh, the Trilateral Commission, uh, was going to pick the uh, President and the uh, Vice President of– of the United States, uh, Carter and [Walter] Mondale. Uh, this would give them uh, a way to control– to control the government, uh, this would make uh, Brzezinski a very powerful man, and he is– because he’s the, uh, assistant to the President of the United States.

Ingram: Very good. Thank you.

Crowd: Applause

Ingram: What has Carter’s administration done to follow the Trilateral line? Anybody care to answer that? Let’s see some hands now. (Pause) Hear– did you– did you hear the question?

Scattered in crowd: No.

Ingram: What has Carter’s administration done to follow the Trilateral line? Okay, Cardell [Neal].

Cardell: Everything. He has taken a pro-business line– he has taken a pro-business line while all along keeping the American public confused by talking out both sides of his mouth. Uh, he has advanced the– he has advanced the dollar to give more of a free hand to big– uh, to big business, to big business and oil interests. He also uh– he also restrained the dol– he also restrained the press while advancing the dollars, while advancing the dollars of oil interests, and big busi– and big business, and all, and uh, he also gave loans to dictators, to fascist dictatorships, and all along he’d been talking about human rights.

Ingram: Thank you, very good, very good.

Crowd: Applause

Ingram: Could Joe Wilson please come to the back of the stage and see the nurse? To back stage? Joe Wilson. Okay, what is Bonshowski’s– Bon– Bonzhinski’s [Brzezinski’s] dream of the new age? Ah, let’s see. Marie [Likely Exia Marie Duckett/Rankin]?

Marie: Uh, Brzezinski wants uh, to control the world totally by using computers, and he also wants total control of the world’s economic– economics by uh, fascist dictatorships, uh, through the multinational corporations. Uh, I think that’s the Trilateral Commission.

Ingram: Very good. Very good.

Crowd: Applause

Ingram: Okay, we have two more questions now. What is Brzezinski’s position in all of this? What is his position? What is his position in all of this? Let’s see, let’s see. Hold your hands up now. Uh, think you can answer it, Tchabaka? Well, try it then.

Tchabaka [Shawn] Baker: Uh, he’s the security advisor, the head of the national security, and uh, he’s the man behind the Trilateral Commission. He was with David Rockefeller but he’s now dead, and uh, he has his– he’s uh– he’s uh, the top man on the nuclear arsenal.

Ingram: Very good. Thank you. Thank you.

[Woman in the background saying something about “Security. He’s security”].

Ingram: Okay, the last question, if you get this right, we won’t have anymore, but if you don’t get this right, we’ll have some more questions. Can anyone explain China’s Doctrine of the Three Worlds?

Crowd: Calls.

Ingram: Let’s see, uh, uh– Now if you don’t get it right, be sure you get it right now. Jann Gurvich, let’s see if you can get it.

Jann: The Doctrine of Three Worlds is a doctrine which is promulgated by the People’s Republic of China and it’s– it’s a fallacious doctrine. Uh, first, I’ll set it out, and then I will criticize it. Uh, the First World is the US and the USSR, and they are called superpowers, which is a fallacy there, which we’ll go into. The Second World is the European powers and Japan. The Third World is the so-called developing world, the– the Third World uh, of Latin America, Indochina and Africa. Uh, the policy– the doctrine is based on some major fallacies. First they say that uh, the Western imperialist– It’s based on the idea that the Western imperialist bloc has disintegrated, which is clearly false. NATO still exists, Western imperialist powers get together to uh, inflict oppression on the people of Ethiopia, and other parts of South Africa, all over the world, so it is not true that the uh, Western imperialist bloc has disintegrated. This is one of the reasons that they base their doctrine on. Another thing is uh, China sees itself as the leader of the Third World, which is, in essence, not true at all, if you look at their– their, uh, track record, so to speak. Uh, China’s been on the wrong side of too many conflicts in recent years. In Chile they did not support uh, [Salvador] Allende as the Soviets did, they closed their doors to the refugees. In uh, Angola in 1975, in that war of liberation, they supported the capitalist-backed imperialist powers of the FMLA and UNITA instead of supporting the Marxist group of Agostinho Neto. Again, we saw uh, China taking the wrong side in a– a conflict in developing countries between Ethiopia and Somalia, where they took the side of the Somalis, along with the other aggressive powers of the United States and Saudi Arabia. So the concept of– of China as the leader of the Third World is clearly erroneous, and their practice is erroneous, which you can see by the examples of Chile, Angola, and Somalia. And it’s also false, not only in the practice but in the theory based on the idea of this– the Western imperialist bloc has disintegrated, which is not true at all. It hasn’t disintegrated, we see that with NATO. The real leader of the Third World has been, and is now the Soviet Union, and they are on the correct side of every major liberation struggle we see, in South America, in Africa, all over the world. China attempts to wrest this position from them, but their practice and their theory both gives a lie to their doctrine.

Ingram: Very good, let’s give her a hand for that. Let’s give everybody a hand that answered all their questions right.

Crowd: Applause

Two women arguing away from mic:

Woman 1: Move out the way!

Woman 2: Well, what you want me to do?

Woman 1: You need to–

(Tape edit)

Ingram: Uh– And I see that our– our question makers are gonna have to make the questions a little bit tougher, because everybody got all the questions right tonight. Okay, we’ll have a film now, so if you’ll just bear with them setting up the film, we’ll be on it just shortly, okay? So, why won’t you stand and stretch? And you know it’s always good to have an attitude of gratitude, so tell your neighbor how to have a good attitude, please. Stand and stretch and tell them.

General hubbub for several moments

Two women continue arguing.

Side 2

Short conversation 22 seconds, no context

Originally posted on January 30th, 2022.

Last modified on February 1st, 2022.
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