Q851 Transcript

This tape was transcribed by Adrian Whicker. The editors gratefully acknowledge his invaluable assistance.

To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1, Pt. 2).
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(This tape includes several speakers who are recorded from a distance, and some of the transcripts are best approximations of what was said.)

Part I:

(Indistinct voices away from mic for 45 seconds)

Man: Well, just stop (unintelligible), huh?

Woman: Okay.

Man: (reads text of proclamation in conversational tone) Martin Luther King, Jr. spoke courageously and eloquently of America about the war and peace, about social justice and racial discrimination, about this nation’s obligation to the poor and about nonviolence as a way of protecting social change in a world of brutality. (Two sentences about King’s contributions to humanity low, muffled and distorted) Martin Luther King, Jr. united millions of Americans, young and old, black and white, rich and poor in the struggle for human dignity, freedom, and justice through (unintelligible) the passage of civil rights legislation in 1964 and 1965 and working to help eliminate racism from American life. The great contributions of Martin Luther King, Jr. are part of our common history and heritage, a legacy all Americans should preserve and defend. It is fitting that this city memorialize the contributions of Martin Luther King, Jr. social justice and (unintelligible). Therefore, I, George R. Moscone, Mayor of the City and County of San Francisco hereby proclaim that January 15, 1977 shall be known in San Francisco as Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, and I urge all San Franciscans (unintelligible) to observe the day (unintelligible word) celebrations.

(Tape edit)


Part II:

Phone rings several times.

Ubalde: Hello.

Mike Prokes: Tony?

Ubalde: Yeah.

Prokes: Michael Prokes.

Ubalde: Yeah.

Prokes: I’m sorry to call you this late, and, uh, I’m about to leave uh, for Los Angeles.

Ubalde: Um-hmm.

Prokes: I talked to Jim, and, uh, he somehow overheard my conversation there in the room when I talked to you earlier, and, uh, we were just, uh, they mentioned it uh, in passing to Jim, and he got very upset with me for making the call, I didn’t, you know, intend for him to know, because, um, uh, but the point is I– I– I apologize, that I wasn’t aware that he had suggested you, you know, as– as being the chairperson, and I’d been getting a lot of calls–

Ubalde: Uh-huh.

Prokes: –you know from the uh, black community, and uh, Johnny Brown has also, well, Tim Stoen too.

Ubalde: Uh-huh, in reference to what?

Prokes: For Jim to be, you know, the chairperson.

Ubalde: Uh-huh.

Prokes: And so I– I said, well, I– you know, I’d see what I could do, but Jim said he didn’t want anybody, you know, uh, uh, campaigning for him, and uh, he, you know, he was hesitant, he said he would if that’s the way things went–

Ubalde: Uh-huh.

Prokes: –but he thought it’d be difficult to get either one, you know, of you or him as– as chairperson with the way it was–

Ubalde: Mm hmm.

Prokes: –And uh, so he–– but he said, uh, he– he was pretty upset with me for doing that, ‘cause, you know, he had mentioned that he’d uh, uh, that, you know, he’d like to see you or maybe him as chair– vice chairperson.

Ubalde: Well, well, eith– either one of us would be very fine with me. Uh, the reason that we concluded it in that fashion, uh, and he suggested it, that I be chairman, uh, was because we were concerned that, uh, of– of his, of his schedule, and that uh, I was willing to do that if he– if he, uh, if he, uh, if he couldn’t, you know? It’s uh, it’s uh– but, you know, to me, (stumbles) if, uh– if either one of us would be fine. And I– I would, I– I welcome as a matter of fact, and– and please tell this to Jim– Are you gonna follow him?

Prokes: Uh, yes, I’ll be talking–

Ubalde: Yeah, please tell him that I uh, welcomed it very much and I thought he was uh, I– I– I– as a matter of fact, Michael, I– I respected you, respected you for that, and I– I’m glad that you felt that way about Jim. I mean if you didn’t feel that way about him, then I– I think I would lose more respect.

Prokes: Well, I– I probably wouldn’t have done it, uh, although, I– you know, I would’ve liked to have seen him in that position on my own–

Ubalde: Mmhmm.

Prokes: –but uh, we have been getting a– a number of calls–

Ubalde: Mmhmm.

Prokes: –not just me, but Johnny Brown, and– and uh–

Ubalde: Mmhmm.

Prokes: Tim, uh, mainly from the black community–

Ubalde: Mmhmm.

Prokes: people that, uh, want–

Ubalde: Well, I think it’s, I think that–

(Tape edit)


Part III

Audience: Applause.

Carlton Goodlett: If there ever was a prophet, Jim Jones.

Audience: Sustained applause

Goodlett: If there ever was a prophetic people, who would put their lives on the line for the people,  Peoples Temple. People who gather together, Peoples Temple (unintelligible under applause)

Audience: Sustained applause

Goodlett: When Jim Jones came along (pause), he put on the sandals of prophecy, his tongue was polished with the fire of prophecy, his touch reached beyond the barriers of the ghetto into the lives of those who lived in this city, defeated in this community. When Jim Jones came along, he came along at the right time.

Audience: Applause.

Goodlett: There’s only one– one (unintelligible word) minister, that I find enjoyment in being with, because he stands his ground–

Audience: Applause.

Goodlett: So here’s what we got to say. Jim and I use some of the same words, (unintelligible) when you’re gone. When we disband, good thing y’all ain’t around, (unintelligible) we can say what we really mean. (unintelligible) told me, you know? I ain’t gonna say no more. I’m grateful for my brother, and my friend, true prophet in all seasons: Jim Jones.

Audience: Extended applause.

Goodlett: Martin Luther King, Jr. Humani– manitarian Award, January 15, 1977, Reverend Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple Christian Church. To the man and his people who crumbled the walls of injustice, who (unintelligible word) the trumpet of freedom to the oppressed, (unintelligible word) the battle against hunger, drug abuse, homelessness, and unemployment, (unintelligible) of racism, you are a man and a people living in time for all united, walk that walk and talk that talk, and love that love. Cecil Williams (unintelligible)

Audience: Applause.

Jones: I think of no one that I would want to receive an award today by Cecil Williams. To receive an award from him (unintelligible).

Audience: Applause.

Jones: No one else would I use one of my adopted son’s suits, I would never appear anyplace in a suit, but Ce– Cecil Williams. Dashiki like you’re (unintelligible) really out of place.

Audience: laughter

Jones: This isn’t my suit (unintelligible). It won’t button. Carlton Goodlett spoke my mind. I was overwhelmed by the accuracy of his right-on statements, and I want to say for everyone to hear, that if you happen to want to come after Bob [Gnaizda], the uh, public advocates, if you happen to want to come after Cecil and Carlton, particularly because I’ve known them through the years, I’m gonna take that same stand that pastor in Germany [Martin Niemoller] said manyyears ago, (unintelligible), when he said they came after the communists, I didn’t do anything because I wasn’t a communist, then they came after the Jews, and out of my typical prejudices and (unintelligible), I did nothing when they came after the Jews, when they came after the trade unions and the capitalists, the same reaction, that’s not my (unintelligible). If you touch a hair on the head of Cecil Williams or Carlton Goodlett, you’ve got me to beat–

Audience: Sustained applause.


Man: In five minutes, what I said was 9 o’clock and it’s some 15 or 20 minutes, Okay? (Shuffling of the tape recorder and crowd noise). In many ways we have people who in this (unintelligible word) time in the history of America, they all feel like they’re brothers and sisters with the movement of Martin Luther King. But they did declare their brotherhood and sisterhood when King was alive.

Crowd: Responds affirmatively

Man: You see, if you really understand what Martin was about, you begin to sense the direction of what he called the beloved community, he saw the beloved community–

(tape edit)


Part IV:

Several moments of low unintelligible conversation, typing

Jones: Nice people, dealt with a uh, man, who had been– Anybody with insight, I would think anybody (unintelligible) to with this man, he had been reared uh, by a mother who had a tragedy and lost her daughter and her husband in the accident, so she made– he made– she wanted to make the boy be a little girl, and so the little girl had to dress in clothes, up to six, seven, and even on at school during the days and on weekends. Then she died and left this little girl, little boy, and the little boy manifested behavior, when as an adult he would get in uh, woman’s clothing, go around and find little old ladies that looked like his mother and use a– use a wire and (makes noise of garotte) choke `em to death. But anyways, shows you the ordeal, it was terrible, he flipped, you know, the totally split personality, he went right into this woman, uh– female role, and this, just an hour program, oh the brainwashing, the brainwashing, the brainwashing, at the end, when they arrested him and took him away, they made him look just as grotesque as hell, like some kind of demon that emerged up out of hell, when the other personality came in, (chuckles) all the hate that will build towards transvens– transvestites and homosexuals, and the whole business without saying it, at the end it shows this cop, this female cop saying, “And I wonder how long, how soon, that– how very soon he’ll be turned out on society again?”

Tropp: Oh, wow.

Jones: No– no background, no empathy, no nothing, just get the fucker. Do away with him. Here’s the sad thing, I’m– I’m happy to (unintelligible phrase) and see the sadness, ‘cause they didn’t dwell on the sadness. This little patch drops, boy, we– we’ve got a mess on TV, I don’t watch that shit enough, somebody oughta monitor that shit, they’re really– they’re really putting the heavy on people now.

Tropp: ­–(unintelligible word) they were watching some dumb show with these two white women–

Jones: Well, we could do something to take off against that. But sure we believe in a–

(Knock on the door, door creaks open)

Jones: (unintelligible) eliminating crime.

Man: Excuse me.

Jones: Yeah, whatdya want? Come here.

Man: (unintelligible)

Jones: You do?

Man: (unintelligible)

Jones: You got a subpoena. Uh-oh. For what?

Man: Late, too.

Jones: For what? This little report, what the hell’s this all about?

Man: Witness, I think. Should be–

Jones: Is it late?

Man: Just got the mail, (unintelligible) sent it.

Jones: Aw shit, man, let’s get on this so we don’t get in trouble with this. Take it to Gene [Chaikin] back there. You know Jean. Terry Eisenberg of the district, I’ve heard– I’ve heard the name spoken of. (Pause) Wha– what do you mean, it was delivered in the mail today?

Woman: No, we have an outside address. We get the mail about once every two weeks or so. (Tropp and woman talk over each other). They’ve gone there looking for him. And they say they don’t know (unintelligible) legal address, and now they’ve sent a subpoena. I’m afraid they’re gonna go back and look for him again and if he’s not there (unintelligible under typing)

Jones: (unintelligible under typing) –come from me, an order from me that he’s gone and uh–

Man: Yeah.

Several unintelligible exchanges

Jones: –violation of subpoena. First thing on the agenda tomorrow. (Pause) This is a bad business.

Several unintelligible exchanges

Jones: Say they put it in the wrong goddam mailbox, can’t you, or something?

Tropp: (unintelligible)

Jones: Say you just now got the thing.

Tropp: (unintelligible)

Jones: Are we going to write off sick people and just kill ‘em? Or are we going to try and correct, you know– I’m not very uh– (Pause) Are– are we– are we, you know, there’s a lot of ill– there’s a lot of ill people in our society that the pressures of living created. And are we just to uh, punish because the child happens to be the child of the wrong parent who’s mentally disturbed? Are we not to make any effort to cure? And I shou– We ought to go ahead and talk about our agricultural mission, how we have found that most pathological behavior. There ought to be more efforts to get work camps. Sure, not turn them back on society, but give them an opportunity for a natural environment, prison reform, you could say in a sense, maybe– Of course, our people have mobility in our agricultural mission, and they would come, and it’s like a community, like a Jewish kibbutz and uh, no citizen. (pause) Maybe the– you know, talk to them, asking for, maybe help develop, instead of pouring so much money into some of these uh, dictatorships we could uh, assist countries like Guyana and others for such camps to be done and give them– give them money to help their struggling, (stumbles over words) their emerging independent nation, and the same token young people like that could be sent to– fo– or rehabilitation. (Coughs) Montana’s not far enough, but you know, they could set up a community, surely, hell, within, uh, say in– it could be done in Montana, place like that, an or– an ordinary community, an ongoing, functional community.

Tropp: (unintelligible)

Jones: Yeah, and if they can’t be let out, let uh– then that’s fine. Let a board decide that, based on their, not– not some kind of namby-pamby uh, idealism, but real, thorough studies, you see, and uh, careful scrutiny. (murmuring in background) Maybe it needs change long, but we cannot– uh, we can’t make, uh, indeterminant sentences in institutions that are breeding grounds for new– new forms of crimes. And we don’t sound quite as crazy and idealistic. I don’t have objection to people being isolated from the ordinary community, if, by God, they’re in humane conditions. You know, if there’s somebody that’s pathologically disturbed, and you can’t get them straightened out, but Jesus Christ, to put people in prison for the rest of their life or kill ‘em, I, uh, I think the suggestion was to kill this person.

Tropp: That’s right. Even when they don’t put them in jail, I mean just to just to–to put ‘em to say you’ll turn them back on the street. Well, if they do go back on the streets, what happens then? They’ll go right back into the same crimes, it’s a double bind, there’s no– Society doesn’t want to deal with the problem either.

Woman: It just burns me when people say rehabilitation doesn’t work. It infuriates me because they’ve never tried it.

Jones: They never have.

Woman: (unintelligible)

Jones: Goddam prison system, the prisons I was in, I’ve– that I’ve visited, it’s just horrendous. What the hell is this goddam Gestapo, uh, Muslim shit wondering around through the prisons now? What the fuck is he up to? That fucker ever stay home? No wonder his movement’s falling apart.

Tropp: (Unintelligible) The only Muslim–

Jones: He’s coming to San Quentin now, he’s going to San Quentin, I, uh, that may be worth, you may be hitting on to a point. He’s in China one week, and he’s over (stumbles over words) in Maui, uh, vacationing the other week, and then he’s back in the Near East. That son of a bitch, it just must be exhausting for a movement’s uh, finances.

Woman: Uh-huh. (unintelligible)

Tropp: (unintelligible)

Jones: Well, they’ve sent a lot of information to Libya. We might get a visit there, uh, say our pastor’s spoken well of it, and their reform, you know, in our newspaper, 600,000– you might get, we might get, I’d like to, think of all the state visits that son of a bitch gets, I’d like to go see Libya. It’s a base of operations that we would so thoroughly, we really don’t. Boy I love what those Arabs did today, God damn it to hell, France didn’t– France didn’t–

Tropp: (laughing with Jones- says something unintelligible)

Jones: France didn’t wait, they didn’t wait any time. It shows where the money, where– where the power is in the future. That son of a bitch, he– he engineers a mass murder, and what is it, two hours they got that fucker on a plane.

Tropp: (unintelligible)

Jones: Court decides he uh– he’s innocent and sends him out to Algiers.

Woman: That whole thing is funny, because nobody could– everybody was watching everybody else die, they couldn’t tell (unintelligible)

Tropp: (unintelligible, drowned out by typing)

Jones: Huh?

Tropp: (unintelligible)

Jones: Economics is such a com– uh, complicated affair.

Tropp: Do you want to try to communicate directly with number one and two?

Jones: Yeah, maybe our old route through Mex– Mexico, Mexico or someplace like that. Or to Guyana and have them do it there, that might be better, send it to Guyana and have them do it from there. Little question about Mexico these days.

Tropp: They were questioning us–

Jones: I want to deal with (stumbles) your wife said that, uh, she had that doctor, I dunno, she may not know fully, but does she know that doctor fairly well? Sylvia, goddam Sylvia Grubbs gets into it and says, I think you oughta go to Mexico. Serving the people. And that’s the very thing that triggered him. Phyllis [Chaikin] said it was all over. That was all she wrote, right then. Phyllis just barged in there, (speaks with gritted teeth) goddam mother fuckers like that! Somebody spend days and days and weeks and weeks–

Tropp: After all that work and preparation–

Jones: I can’t afford to get mad, my blood pressure goes (makes a whooshing noise), just like somebody shoots a rocket off into (unintelligible). That just made me– it infuriated me that she would wonder into a goddam place uninvited and throw her two cents, nincompoop! She– uh, Phyllis had him already to go over there, come here and all our work is, and he had questions, but (coughs) that was it. Mexico it was.

Tropp: God–

Jones: Big mouths. That’s the second person run-in on her when she was trying to mother him.

Tropp: (unintelligible)

Jones: Goddamn people. They’re– they infuriate me when they do that. I mean anybody with good sense ought to know better than to do that.

(Recorder moves, then cuts off)

(Tape edit)


Part V

Jones: (on telephone) –between that teacher did, it was a very atrocious kind of statements that he made, and I, I felt well the man ought to at least uh, take the time to find out, you know, he’s so, so uh, deluded in what we stood for.

Man: Right, right.

Jones: And then to prejudice, uh– to prejudice another department, in a– in a– in a sister city, a sister station, to prejudice them to not to send out, uh, and to their chagrin. This is off the record, but some– we had sympathetic journalists– they were told from, which I don’t understand how things work, how KGO here would have that much influence, but they didn’t cover uh, he same thing that CBS and NBC covered in depth.

Man: Yeah. I– I– I think, uh, that that is not a, uh, a personal thing, I think it’s a philosophical point on the types of news, uh, KGO is– is interested in, and unfortunately they– they uh, go heavy after the ratings and, and they–

Jones: I agree, I agree.

Man: –that they would rather have talk about three murders in a row, you see, in the evening news–

Jones: (chuckles)

Man: –and– and– and ignore the–

Jones: (unintelligible)

Man: –something about fire, or something like that.

Jones: Well, I– I understand that, but my problem was that not that KGO didn’t cover it here, but that they would exert influence in Los Angeles, where obviously NBC and CBS saw it as most newsworthy, because we didn’t seek out the news, and uh, that was killed on ABC.

Man: Yeah.

Jones: But this, as the joking– one of the editors said jokingly: “always be careful,” I don’t know what he meant by that, “ABC: always be careful,” (Man and Jones chuckle) but any– anyway, thank you. We– we appreciate much your intervention, but–

Man: I will do my very best–

Jones: I’m sure you will.

Man: I’ll have a conversation with Russ uh, sometime in the next four or five days and–

Jones: Thank you, thank you.

Man: Bye.

Jones: Bye.

(Tape edit)


Part VI

Jones: We just thought it was uh, bad that he would influence a– a sister station to uh, not assign the story, when all the other media did cover it. Not– and we don’t mind, we don’t mind ’cause we weren’t seeking the news, we went there unannounced, it was very impromptu, uh, we felt the issue, you know, the usual bit, the enlightened self-interest of the press and the people, and we’ve always seen both dictatorial regimes of the right and the left nibble at the press, directly or indirectly, and so, you know, what, what– (speaks off mic to someone else)

Prokes: In other words, we tell Colin that uh– that we may have had misinformation about this guy influencing the, uh–

Jones: No, no, no, say it seems– no, say that he uh– he uh– it was told to us directly from both LA and here that he didkill that assignment, and we can understand why uh, 3000 people marching would not be news to KGO. We understood that, clearly. Though we couldn’t understand why it wasn’t news down there, and there were sympathetic people on the staff who said that they– they– they– they didn’t understand it. Say, we were told, uh, very reliably and verbatim uh, comments about this man, that this man Connor’s made, say we– we– they came out verbatim, so, uh, we don’t want to start any hassle with him, but we want you to know we, we did have it, uh, it was a basis for it, and Mr. Jakes has greatly helped, he was very– he spoke kindly of you and uh, helped override some things that had been told by others. Even though our minister knew you were not guilty of racism, he knew that from the beginning, even though there is a lack of communications, as one local editor who toured all of our facilities said, there’s a great barrier between the press and people these days. And uh, he– we appreciated him, he had taken the time, he toured all of our facilities, we know that busy editors can’t be expected to do that, but it was– it did help our people greatly, that he came through our– uh, the nutritional program, da-duh-da-duh-da-duh, you know, physical therapy, medical– but took the time, and uh, we could– might say that to some of the other press too, that would show them the legitimacy if some of the establishment editors came through, (stumbles over words) the establishment press, and that was greatly– that was greatly helpful, just that dropping in on us. By the way, remind that goddam Goodlett, he– it’d be just like him not to show up.

End of Side 1


Side 2

Silence for 30 seconds

Part VII

Phone tone, dialing, rings

Receptionist: Good morning, (TV call letters unintelligible).

Tropp: Hello, uh, I’m calling to find out some information. Uh, my name is Richard Tropp, I’m with Peoples Temple Church. There was apparently, uh, something about our Church on a news broadcast on Friday night–

Receptionist: Uh-huh.

Tropp: –And I wanted to see if I could check with your news director, to, uh, get some more information.

Receptionist: Uh– The switchboard isn’t open on the weekends–

Tropp: Mmhmm

Receptionist: –Give a call back Monday after 9 o’clock and you can find that out.

Tropp: Okay, who would I ask for at that time?

Receptionist: I have no idea. Just tell them what you– what you want to know and they’ll figure out from there.

Tropp: Okay, thank you.

Receptionist: All right.

Tropp: Bye-bye.

Receptionist: Bye-bye.

(Tape edit)



Jones: And, uh, oh– and then that banker that was being written and I don’t know who in the hell else, um, uh, Douglas L. Mobley, on uh– by the way tell all the people down there like [Eugene] Chaikin, I am now taking notes, I’m, uh, not trusting, uh, uh, my memory so I– when I give an assignment, I want a report that day, on what the hell has been done. A lot of people are taking advantage of me with that. They know my memory, and it isn’t all that bad, really, because it’ll, you know, it’ll do a kind of a revival on two or three days later, on what, what’s been done with this. But I’m taking notes now. Shit. I’m taking notes so I can look at my own work assignment and– and see that it’s being followed up. I think I might just prod, uh– Tell him, [Dick] Tropp, you know, but even– even– everyone, Harriet [Tropp], the whole bunch of `em. I told her to mention it, but you– you tell him, will you?

Prokes: Okay.

Jones: Because, uh, there’s a lot of shit, man, that doesn’t get done. I don’t know if they just forget it. I think what everybody is gonna have to do is, you have, I think for some time, carried a memo pad. Uh– We ought not to go out without a memo pad. And I’d like if they would put a, give me one that I could chain around my neck. Might tell Maria [Katsaris] that if I could get one that would just chain right around my neck.

Prokes: Okay.

Jones: With a little, little pencil on it, because we can’t trust memory anymore, it’s too big a deal. (Phone rings) I’ve always tried to keep my memory alive, but I think we’re, uh, overpressured.

Prokes: Loretta’s [Cordell] getting it. Okay–

Jones: I’m just gonna check it. I’ve heard some crazy–

Prokes: Now see that’s what they do, goddamnit! It stopped ringing. Oh, she got it I guess.

Long pause as Jones listens in on phone call

Jones (on phone with Loretta) What’s going on in that department down there? Nobody there but you? Hear? Oh, I know, I’m just talking, I’m– I’m on another line. I’d like that, I don’t like that kind of situation.

Loretta: (unintelligible)

Jones: Well, it seems to me that uh, Accounting needs to be pushing ahead. Okay, thank you, bye-bye. (Hangs up) (unintelligible) fucking accounting department. Nobody over there but Loretta. (Pause)That accounting department, nobody over there but Loretta. (unintelligible)

Prokes: And then Tish [Leroy] is always making a case of how all those desks are used that, boy she fought us to beat hell to get one of the desks out of there for [Jim] Randolph in here.

Jones: Yeah, well–

Prokes: She said, they’re all used.

Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m sure they are. She ran her little bailiwick. Uh, did anyone call [John] Maher? I don’t know, I don’t think I assigned it to you, so you may not know. There was a call, if you could check around, sleuth around. Maher was to be called with a special story, (phone ringing) uh, saying something, (under breath) what was it, (normal tone) that we got his notice ,and we called saying anyone would do in my place because I had already had a month and a half old engagement in Los Angeles to speak at some– several different meetings, and then I never got a re– return call from him as to whether anyone else could have gone to his uh, swearing in.

Prokes: Oh, Bill Maher?

Jones: Never got ahold of him.

Prokes: I called to, uh, those numbers that you gave me–

Jones and Prokes speak over each other

Prokes: Pardon?

Jones: Oh. Go ahead.

Prokes: I said that I called before then and uh, I was left a message on my desk to call, and I uh, I never got an answer at this– this number–

Jones: Well, I called too. So you tell– uh, you tell ‘em I left a message and they didn’t return it. I just want him to know I didn’t ignore his swearing in. So you called, I called, that means that two of us– uh, because I called uh, and I wanted to see if anybody else could be sent in– on my stead.

Prokes: He– he knows we uh–

(Tape edit)


Part IX

Muffled speaking by Cecil Williams for six minutes

At 12:59, Bob Gnaizda speaks

Gnaizda: Only one city in the United States had a worse record, and that was Jackson, Mississippi. We finally won the suit, and after four court victories and 12 court orders, the city of San Francisco under Mayor [Joseph] Alioto decided to comply, and we integrated the first San Francisco Fire Department class. Four men from that class are here with me today. Those men are not firemen, and they are not firemen because the political power in the city in 1974 under Mayor Alioto decided it was not yet time to integrate that class, so they fired three black men who finished twenty-second and twenty-sixth on the test of 500 successful applicants, and they fired one white man in order to provide racial balance.

Crowd: Laughs

Gnaizda: We’re still in that struggle, and we don’t pretend to be done. And I’d like to tell you about the other suit that Cecil mentioned, the suit to integrate the San Francisco Police Department. When we filed that suit in 1973, San Francisco had a much better record than any city in the state. It no longer does. Even though we won the suit, we got the court order to integrate the San Francisco Police Department, the San Francisco Police Department refused to comply. There’s a man here today who’s more responsible for that suit than anyone else. He’s a man who was referred to in the Police Department as an instigator, and a card-carrying member– a card-carrying member of the NAACP. That was his vice. For that, he had epithets written on his locker, such as “nigger.” This man is Rodney Williams. He’s here in the audience.

Crowd: Applause

Gnaizda: (unintelligible)

Crowd: Applause

(Tape edit)

Man accepts award for Rodney Williams, a captain in the San Francisco Police Department.

Gnaizda: Dennis O’Leary and George (unintelligible name) are back in the Fire Department.

Crowd: Applause

Gnaizda: Cecil (unintelligible) and I would just like to ask this congregation to help Martin Luther King’s image and what he stood for in terms of celebration. And I’d like to ask everyone here to make a little contribution towards (unintelligible) and that is on Monday, I’d like each of you to telephone the one person who has more control over this than anyone else (unintelligible phrase) and that’s the Mayor of the City of San Francisco.

Crowd: Applause

(Gnaizda speaks softly to Cecil Williams, unintelligible)

Williams: Were it not for the United Farm Workers, we would not as a people be where we are today. The United Farm Workers, under the leadership of Cesar Chavez, with the support of millions of people, have now brought to the fields the struggles of not only Latino, uh, Chicano people, but the struggles of all people who are not paid equal wages, the struggles of all people who have to tell the soil of the earth, so (unintelligible balance of remarks)

(Williams presents an award to the United Farm Workers of America to Mack Lyons.

Lyons: On behalf of the United Farm Workers of America, I would like to express to the people of Glide Memorial Church, Reverend Williams, that I’m very proud to be here, accepting this award, and I’m very proud and happy to have been here today to participate in keeping the spirit of Martin Luther King alive (unintelligible). Thank you very much. (applause).

Williams: (unintelligible as he presents an award to Carlton B. Goodlett)

Goodlett: (unintelligible)