Q948 Transcript

(Editor’s note: This tape was transcribed by Connor Ashley Clayton. The editors gratefully acknowledge his invaluable assistance.)

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Jones: (starts in mid-sentence) –that they must take pride in their performances, but must be careful of aggression and arrogance that has developed in other Third World liberated– (tape distorts, slows)

(Tape edit)

Jones: I don’t (unintelligible) used to follow that path (unintelligible). My enemies are those who tell me to love people like you. Those are my enemies, pretending to love those who will sell out their brothers and sisters, who can grow up socialists (unintelligible). My family hate. Love will get you sucked in. Sucked in how many people I’ve loved, back there, that’ve stabbed me in the back, and I don’t give a fuck what they’ve done to me, but how many of them I’ve left– I loved them. (Pained) I talked more to Mike Cartmell than I talked to my own kids that come out of my wife’s womb.

Crowd: Muffled response

Jones: Woo! Tired of (unintelligible), he told his mother, I don’t give a fuck what (unintelligible)– what does he say? It broke my heart, God. The one statement– excuse–I’d follow mother to ask you, but I think you can feel strong enough to say it, and I’m (unintelligible). I believed him. I’ll say it for you. You’ll go on ahead and say it. I really blame the black people here. He said, I’m American, I like hotdogs. I loved him. (Cries out) I knew some of ‘em! Maybe there’s a little hurt down here someplace, a broken heart somewhere, but not very much! (Voice returns to normal) His daughters and his sisters come up to him today and told me some of the things he’d gone through as a child. How he’d threatened her, God, did he put her through some things. Some terrible things, she said, I could kill him. (Quietly) (Unintelligible) She meant that. She meant that she’d kill him. Goddamn it, I’m getting close. I’m getting close. It’s strange to be the motherfucker. (Unintelligible) Hate– There is a good song, I love that song, we can just change that. Capitalism is my enemy. You know, it doesn’t take much change and make that song sound good. But don’t never say hate is your enemy. Love has practically caused me to get– get you destroyed. If I had hated a little more– just a little more– we woulda had a little less trouble. ‘Cause I look at my faults analytically. Sure, you gotta love, (suddenly) principle. But don’t say, hate is my enemy. What do they say, what’s that word? Hateis my enemy. I’ve got to fight it day and night. And what else do they say, that other line? Love’s the only weapon? (Cries out) Shit! Bullshit! Martin Luther King died with love! [Robert F. “Bobby”] Kennedy died talking about something he couldn’t even understand, some kind of generalized love and he never even backed it up, he was shot down! Bullshit! Love is the only weapon with which I’ve got to fight. I’ve got a hell of a lot of weapons to fight! I’ve got my claws, I’ve got cutlasses, I’ve got guns, I’ve got dynamite! I’ve got a hell of a lot to fight! I’ll fight! I’ll fight! (Cries out, ululating, crowd ululates in response) I will fight! I will fight! I will fight! I will fight!

Crowd: Mass ululation, cheering in a war cry

Jones: Let them hear it in the night!

Crowd: Continued war cry

Jones: Oooh! (Cries out, ululating) Ah, yes, we’ll fight! (Pause) Let the night roar with it! They’re out there, they’re out there! They’re listening! Let the night roar with this! (Shouts, ululating) (Pause) Let the night roar, because they can hear us! They know we mean it! We’ll kill them if they come!

Crowd: Continues shouting in war cry

Jones: Ohh. (Quietens) That’s good. Thank you. That sounded like an army. You roared all of a sudden, and (makes noise). They’re out there, every night, they’ll fuck with our PA system, keep awake. So I have to know whether it’s an emergency or not. Women, men – and by God – one time, few weeks ago, they thought we loved. They come inhere. And I’m not saying they might not try it again, but we’d still have a hell of a weapon. It’s a six-week (unintelligible word). And nobody walked in here since.

Crowd: Muffled affirmation

Jones: Well, if we got six weeks of peace, some of you don’t know, we didn’t get any (unintelligible).

Crowd: Calls of affirmation.

Jones: Now I guess we got every other week (unintelligible word) a while. We have no peace! And I don’t want nobody to get those sons of bitches back there. ‘Cause I know I’m gonna go on the front lines. They’ll get me first. ‘Cause that would be only the proper thing to do. Captain leads the battle. But some of you could make it through the line. If it ever comes to war. (unintelligible) promise that there wouldn’t be no war. You got nerve asking for no war, over the dead bodies of Steve Biko and eight of his relatives rotting in jail. You got a lot of gall to ask when Martin is dead, and Malcolm [X] is dead and their little children had to grow up without papas and mamas, and tens of thousands of blacks die lonely, unknown.

Crowd: Affirming calls

Jones: We went through under the Waldorf-Astoria, underneath down into the lower sub of the trenches, where the pipelines go and they find several dozens dead every week there.[1] (Unintelligible shout)! No food. Nobody to give a shit. Trying to get out of the cold. Six lower levels underneath the streets. The rats as big as a goddamn cat. I read the article, and I didn’t read it in no socialist paper, I read it in a New York paper. Showed some pictures of them of what they found there eating – photographers took – all they wanted was a story, they took pictures and they made the story. Looked like concentration camps of black and white. Down in (unintelligible) dungeons. Most of them sickly, in every big city, because it’s so goddamn cold. People of all races are having to go down, young and old. Some sixteen- and seventeen-year-old kids. White, black, all down there trying to find some kind of food, if they can. And they got more socialism down there than you have up in the streets, because if someone got to eat dog food or whatever the hell they pick up out of a garbage can, they’d all share it around and eat together. No, how much they fucked us over with that love shit. And don’t you ever fall for that again. Watch. Look. Observe. Be fair. Be just. Be loving. When you see principle, be loving. But don’t ever say hate’s your enemy. ‘Cause hate’ll keep you on the line. Hate’ll keep you marching through when the fuckers are coming after ya, when love’ll cause you to fall over like a marshmallow. I mean that false kinda bullshit love (makes mocking noise) – fall onto the (unintelligible). (Voice rises sharply, shouting) Hate’ll drive you on!

Crowd: Right!

Jones: You’ll think of what they did to Steve Biko and you’ll think of what they did to Martin and you think of what they’ve done to the thou– ten thousand– million Jews and blacks. (Shouts) You hate! You think of the concentration camps, and now the fuckers are back again, they are back again, they’re taking over America again, and you’ll hate! And little – (unintelligible) lamb, little (unintelligible) lamb, until you (unintelligible) murder the sons of bitches.

Crowd: Applause, cheers, shouts

Jones: I’ve said enough. (Pause) So change that little lyric, and that’ll be all right. Socialism is the only weapon with which I’ve got to fight. (Shouts) Capitalism is my enemy! And I hate it with all my might! Socialism is that spirit with which I’ve got to fight. Whatever, you know how to do it. You musicians, and you l– lyricists, you. You’ll be able to put it (unintelligible). I don’t want to hear any more bullshit about pastor (unintelligible). He made do that as a pastor, because the ends justify the means. But we will not– (tape edit) Martin Luther King is not one of our honoured heroes in the first place, because he never breathed socialism, he kept it in the closet, and he still died. So hell, I’ve made it to 46, and I been preaching communism since I was 18, goddamn it. There’s a better track record for you to be true! Sure, I’ve suffered like hell, I went through all these witchhunts and assassination attempts and the– so many goddamn campaigns, I can’t forget, I can’t remember. Don’t want to. But Luther King is dead. Apologist, Christian sell-out is dead!

Crowd: Muffled response of agreement

Jones: And we’re still alive. He (unintelligible)was dead. You’re so right. King was a liar. You’re never gonna get no southern plantation owner’s son to sit down with no nigger! He’s against it. It’s a caste system. You gotta get rid of the plantation owners!

Crowd: Cheers, applause

Jones: Some bullshit about love. Can be no love between people who have differences in property, ‘cause the moment there is differences in property, the fucker that’s got more will think he’s better than the other son of a bitch.

Crowd: Muffled response of agreement

Jones: You’re never gonna see Rockefeller’s son sit down with one of us.

Crowd: No!

Jones: Well, that’s not– may not be true, necessarily. ‘Cause the revolution’s on my side, and we may surround him sometime and interrogate him. One of our black sisters told me of a most complicated kidnapping s– system I ever heard tell of to get our people, and she’s 71 or 72. But we got some thinkers in here. I’d like to get– I’d like to get that criminal [Joseph] Mazor, I’d like to get that fucker and pick his brain. That Interpol– Say well, we only want to get [Tim] Stoen. Oh shit, no, I wanna get– that’s vengeance. You can’t let hate become blinding. (unintelligible) Sure, I wanna get Stoen – (Voice rises) he put me through hell! You take care of that. You take care of that. I can’t be run by vengeance. He put me through a nightmare, I had to vomit on his back, (exclaiming) he put me through hell! (Shouting) I’ve got a baby [John Victor Stoen] that I love that I’ve got to worry about ruining all my life, and I don’t have a legal paper, he put me through hell! (Calmer) But I can’t go after him. (Shouting) He’s not the one I want to get. I want to get the son of a bitch that can lead me to the l– the conspiracy and find out the fucker that’s done it all and I (unintelligible, sounds like “wanna slit him apart”).

Crowd: (Cheers, applause, ululation, war cry)

(Tape edit)

Jones: I hope you understand what I’m saying.

Crowd: Yeah!

Jones: I have no right to personal vendetta. [If] I went on a personal vendetta, I’da gone after Tim, because he– (tape edit)– to do what I had to do. It’s all right, loves. I came here to do what I had to do with Grace [Stoen] to save us from being lied on. Tim from being embarrassed. He let me do it. He projected it. He played it very clear that that’s what I was expected to do. Prick. You see, that’s personal. I’ve got to think in a revolutionary sense. And I wanna find out the son of a bitch that no doubt has done this to other movements. And if you’ve got any s– you know, ideas. People telling me how to get this or that or another, that’s good, that’s good, that’s good. But there’s money, pouring out, like– like piss out of the Jolly Green Giant. Money’s coming from somewhere, into these pockets to bring in all of us and all these Aunt Janes and Uncle Toms. Sure, I’d like to get ‘em! They ain’t worth shit! I’d sellchicken shit to get them. Chicken shit! I wanna find out who’s paying ‘em!

Crowd: Muffled response

Jones: Then we’ll get them. There’s always gonna be somebody left! There’ll be some old soul that’ll look like he’s dead, laying there in the– in the pile of brush, or laying down with his cutlass or out there in the windrow, he’ll look like he’s dead but he’ll get up and he’ll find his way back to America to take care of them!

Crowd: Cheers, applause

Jones: You understand what I mean.

Crowd: Continued applause

Jones: I wanna find out, and I want to hear it from the camaraderie of this great Communist collective, I want to hear it, on ideas how we wanna (unintelligible word) the enemy. They’re going through telephones, but there’s other ways. Telephone’s a long, long way. (unintelligible)– I’ve got people working night and day, trying to walk the streets. I got so much guilt about them walking the streets, ‘cause we won’t save money. We throw stethoscopes out on the– on the lawn and let ‘em rot. We let our cutlasses rust. We got people that try their damnedest to get outta work no matter what you do. You can’t get ‘em into work. (Unintelligible, stumbles over words) (speaks rapidly) And I’d be glad to hear some people tell me, woah, Dad, (unintelligible) you inspired me. And we’re gonna live here (unintelligible, speaks rapidly) we’re gonna have to find ways of making a means of living, so our people don’t have to walk down the streets and be threatened to kill, and have hate looks and stares, and I mean actual threats. Didn’t make any difference how old they were. Didn’t make any difference they were black or white. (Pointedly) Socialist. Black and white, mixed. Some of them wouldn’t even get up– go after us because we were socialist. Just the fact that we were mixed. “Jew Lover, Jew Lover!” In America, “Jew Lover!” All we wanted was into a cause. We stepped on a hornet’s nest. Them fucking goddamn Nazis, they murdered, probably, the big– murderers themselves, they hate me are right in the States. And I bet you we can find it and we got a narrow path that leads us to [Valerian] Trifa, the head of an orthodox church that killed, that– that participated, that directed– not directed, he was a part of a conspiracy that ordered eight hundred thousand Jews and blacks, brown, minorities murdered in Romania. And personally killed how many of them I don’t know. God damn (unintelligible). Personally cut up the bodies– and I don’t want you to forget that shit! And don’t you go no pacifist shit! Bullshit. Here he’s sitting in East Lansing, Michigan, and now, we sit in our line, and we find out from the– of the attorney of the Berrigans [Daniel and Philip Berrigan]  and the attorney of the– that opened the CIA file– and the attorney that worked with [Daniel] Ellsberg– Sheehan [Brown]– that we’re an East Lansing group after us– a so-called Christian, uh, group that have us in their file. And in a new legal force – a new whole law enforcement – L.E.I.A. I never heard tell of it before, that has allthings happening in this part of the world in its files, and calls and tells people how to (pointedly) smash, and– (calm) Not, not, not, not kill. Smash. Squash. Everybody that’s involved in liberation efforts here). And East Lansing just happens to be the home of Archbishop Trifa, who we took after, the only paper that would write a goddamn word on him. Um-hmm [Yes]. You remember. Some of you remember, I wrote in there about this Nazi head of the church, sitting in that fifty-room mansion, or 58 room or 38 room or whatever on some several– hundred acres, up there in East Lansing, (shouts) sitting there on his ass, (calmer) and he’s cut up little babies. They coulda been ourbabies! He cut ‘em up like he cut a calf, and hung ‘em up, and stamped on their butts, kosher meat. And he’s sitting in the United States. And you wanna go back there, fucker. How d’you feel about going back there? You won’t be far away from here, you’ll just be across the way from me. (Pause) I’d like to hear what you got to say to me. (Unintelligible short sentence)

Tom Partak: (Timidly) Uh, I don’t know, Father.

Jones: You don’t know? You fuckers never know– Why did you kill the Jews? (Cries out) I don’t know! Why didn’t you raise your voice when they took the children away? I don’t know! That’s always your goddamn answer – I don’t know – and I hate you fuckers!

Crowd: Scattered, delayed applause, shouts, affirmation

Jones: (Shouting) Find out, fucker. Find out why you can go back to where Murder Incorporated is. Where’s Nazis live and walk scot-free up and down the shores, while millionaires walk – (stumbles over words, unintelligible name) – walkin’ up and down, paid his way, to the president of the United States – two million dollars – he murdered a million Jews. (Short pause) And others. Some of your background, Partak. Slovaks. They murdered people like you. You wanna go back there, don’t ya? You’re not crazy. You’re self-centred, and you know it. That’s your problem. You’ve leaned on mama all your life. How many times you called on mama when you couldn’t face up to life? You oughta hate the bitch. She’s made you weaker than shit. She brought you into the Earth, and then got you out every time you were in a dilemma, didn’t she. Every time you were in a problem, you could always go to mama. (Pause) Sure, several occasions. And now you don’t know. Whatcha gonna do when mama dies? (Pause) What’s the plan, to go back and live with mama? Never leave the old hometown anymore, stay in America all your life. Isn’t that right?

Partak: Uh, uh–

Jones: Oh, don’t lie to me. (Stumbles over words) I– I didn’t read your goddamn letter, but I know. I know what your plans are.

Partak: (Quietly) I’ve thought about leaving the United States, by myself, I just, you know–

Jones: What’s that you talkin’ about?

Partak: I’ve thought about leaving the United States–

Jones: (Shouts) You’re out of the United States now, son.

Partak: Uh, uh–

Jones: Where you gonna go? Third Reich? They just pulled all the Nazi’s over there, and they got more security (stumbles over words) that killer of all the European Jews, the Italian Jews, all the blacks, and all the minorities. He killed so many goddamn people I don’t know – it’s four or five million people – they got him surrounded. He’s got more security than anybody in the whole German government. What’s his name? Prick. Huh? [Herbert] Kappler? (Short laugh) They stole him out of an Italian h– hospital, out of a hospital, because he got into hospital, and they stole him out. Yeah,–and they, yeah– he– he was very sick old son of a bitch, though still alive. Then they announced five months, six months, seven months, he wasn’t dying very much. He paid his way in that goddamn hospital– had cancer about as much as the cancer I’ve got on my butt. Only chance I got is some I’m looking at. Yes, the streets, they– we– they– they threw flowers at his feet. And he murdered millions. And all them fuckers in the United States. Fifty. (Pause) Why doesn’t it bother you, to want to go back there? I’d rather d– I’d rather die in a swampthan go back to that mess. It’s responsible for every murder, it set up [Adolf] Hitler in the first place. US set up Hitler to kill the Soviet revolution. Hitler was a product of American monopoly capitalism. Ruling elitists. They haven’t got to the monopoly stage now. They’re not at the monopoly stage very well, these days having trouble with the Japanese convincing them they ought to join together. The Japanese and them are in a trade war, and I hope to fuck they cut each other’s throats. Oh well, I’m sure we’d be able to hold out long enough for it to happen, then we’ll have– life will be rosy for us, so we’ll send– we’ll bring liberation from here to top of the Caribbean all the way to the fuckin’ Andes’ end. Or we could reach clear to Argentina, we’ll organise people all up and down (stumbles) shit. Let the bomb drop, just get my folks here and let the bomb drop. Uh, they’re in a hell of a mess, and– turmoil and economic (unintelligible) – hope, just that one hope, you ever hoped for anything, just hope for the bomb to drop. (Pause) (unintelligible)– the place to organise folks anywhere in the world, I damn well believe in this part of it– I mean this whole continent. We’d have a hell of a ball game. (Pause) You bet your ass we would. What’d I ask you, I don’t even wanna– what’s your name? What is your name? (Sharply) Partak. ‘Cause I’m getting pissed at people like you.

Partak: (quiet) I’d go out like that– (unintelligible word) to Can– Canada or somewhere

Jones: You’re going to Canada? Why, don’t you see (Unintelligible)

Partak: Uh– I just– I was just sayin’ I could– (unintelligible)

Jones: (Interrupting)– Naw, you’re more than anarchy. (pause) What’s in Canada? White folks! Ain’t none of us niggers.

Crowd: Right!

Jones: You’re nervous, aren’t you, man. You don’t know, what, we might pile on you tonight.

Crowd: Cheers, applause

Jones: Uh-uh [No], I got bigger fish to fry than you, you don’t give me no danger. I wouldn’t waste my time on you, you– you’re piddling (unintelligible word). (Pause) You oughta be glad they ain’t all here though. (unintelligible name) would whoop your ass. Tonight. Tomorrow night, something’s gonna be fucking over you– You’ll get your day. We won’t do it. I won’t do it. (Pause) You think you’re gonna get on a plane, and go bye-bye? Think you’re gon’ get a ticket and go bye-bye? You think you’re gon’ get there? You think I’m gon’ stop you? Nooo. Every single one of these people that’s starting shit, boom, they go down, one woman goes blind on Friday, she’s– Ain’t nothing happened to me yet– oh!

Crowd: Murmurs, affirmation, limited shouts

Jones: (unintelligible). There liable to be a monkey get loose in the airplane and strangle you to death. (Long pause) Probably slippin’ on the ice when you land in New York. You don’t know my power, do you? You don’tcalculate my power. Ah, I’ll just die, I’ll commit suicide. Honey, there’s slower ways. How’d you like to be some (unintelligible), can’t do nothing but look to move your head, how you gonna commit suicide when you can’t move your body? (unintelligible)right now just to cross my path. Yep, lotta folk crossed my path. Ho– how you gonna commit suicide when you can’t do nothing but move your head?

Partak: It’d be pretty hard.

Jones: Be hard, wouldn’t it? Couldn’t drag your body. You can’t drink that much air. (Pause) I see old Rev [James Edwards] back there (Unintelligible) he’d learn how to hate, too. You fuckers taught us, I’m glad you taught us some revolutionary hate.

Crowd: Limited affirmation, shouts

Jones: Taught us revolutionary suicide. Not revolutionary meanness, we don’t wanna be mean to you. But we want to find out, so we’re gonna dissect you before you go. I don’t mean with razors, we wanna know what makes you tick. Fully. We wanna get our final exposure to you and see what the hell is in you. (Long pause) (In background) Yes, thank you, sister. (Pause)

Partak: I don’t have– I don’t have– (Unintelligible)

Crowd: Muffled displeased shouts.

Jones: What are you gonna do when they come up to you and say– what are you gonna do when they come up to you, and put their hand around you, and say, (Unintelligible word), Partak. We’re gonna send you up the river for conspiracy. These people have conspired to uh– to commit revolution and conspired to start a revolution on two continents, they did this and they’ve done that and they can say anything they conspired to bring (Unintelligible word) things across from– through customs. You’re one of ‘em. We’re gonna– we’re gonna sentence you, we’re gonna– we gonna indict you and arrest you right now and put you on trial. I don’t know (Unintelligible) or terror, or (Unintelligible word), they wouldn’t give you– they wouldn’t give you– the biggest would be conspiracy to revolution. They wouldn’t give you that kind of dignity, ‘cause they don’t want to dignify us, ‘cause shit, if they admitted what we really were, they’re afraid that they might turn on some others, a handful of others in every city, then they’ll probably put you on some– who knows what–

(Tape edit. Newscast from older tape)

Jones: –controls in front of him, causing the plane to climb suddenly. With one engine already out, (Unintelligible name) said the other one stalled, the plane went into a spin and ditched into the sea. Just about the time that he was able to get the engine restarted, the pilot related how he tried to calm the passengers as the plane hit the water and began to sink. But he said that, in my frantic attempts to open the plane’s only door, they pulled the lever in the wrong direction and locked the door instead.

(Tape edit. Return to community meeting.)

Jones: –yes, narrowly, you can on their little paltry budget. If you take a longer trip, (unintelligible) you planned to do, they may have a little opium on you? What do you want to say when they come up to you and they say, now, either you uh, tell us, things and get up, and give us some smear stories or testify against Peoples Temple, and lie on Peoples Temple, or we’re gonna put you in jail. What would you do, (slow and emphatic) motherfucker. Now make me believe you’re a liar.

Partak: Sorry, Dad–

Jones: (Interrupts, first word unintelligible) – to stand here, and endure what we good folks, and eat good roast pork,[2] and have somebody to take care of you, and somebody to save you. You’re so out of it. Somebody has to save you. What are you gonna do when they say, talk, Partak? About Peoples Temple. Get up and say lies. Stoen cried, I’ll never do it. He’s a willing agent now. Same (unintelligible word) Stoen. Somebody said they were worried about him coming here, starting a law practice. That’s the one reason he got caught: he didn’t like being around black folk. He’ll never come back here and start a law practice, I can tell you with all that’s within me, he’ll never come back here. He’ll come in here, maybe tryin’ to get something done, but he did not like living in a black country. I saw it during that first week. He wouldn’t like it. He was too good.

Crowd: Voices too soft

Jones: Shit. You don’t have to get to his mother. (Pause) He pass, I thank you, (unintelligible name)

Unidentified male 1: (in background): Partak, you have been a part of us– There ain’t nothing you can tell those people, that’s gone make them believe that you not.

Crowd: Murmurs approval

Unidentified male 1: ‘Cause you ain’t got nothi– you ain’t– you a little fish to them, and you can’t tell ‘em shit, when you get there, and worse shape and–

Jones: Odell, he’s been– he went away, and come back from Chicago, all the way to San Francisco and joined us again, after he went away, and come back, and comes over here again. What are you gonna tell ‘em? Why– why were you here? (takes role of FBI agent) Mr. Partak, I’m a member of the FBI, I wanna know why you were with– associated with– that Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple. I wanna know now! Talk, son. I’m the FBI now. Talk! (Pause) I wanna know why you were here. We’re gonna charge you with a violation of the federal narcotics law. They found some traces of medication on you, and we’re gonna charge you with narcotics travelling– travelling in– trafficking in narcotics. That’s a– that’s a pretty stiff sentence, you’ll probably get five years. Unless you wanted to help us out here, you can be a little comfortable and help us out, we can give y– maybe give you a little deal. Maybe give you just a year. I’ll probably lie to you, they never did give you uh, free time, but uh, say, we’ll– we’ll just, maybe we can drop the charge, Mr. Partak. What do you have to say about Peoples Temple? Say, if you don’t talk, man, I’m gonna give y– I’m gonna throw the book at you. I’ll throw the book at you. I’ll (unintelligible) your ass, (unintelligible) rest of your life. And even when you get out of jail – this is the way they talk – even when you get out of jail, we’ll be watching you, ‘till you get back in a gang. I know how they’ll hound him, because I’ve been through it, for 25– 28 years. What’re you gonna do, Partak?

Partak: I can see it’s fucked up (unintelligible)

Crowd: Unhappy noises, aggressive shouting

Jones: Hmm? Um-hmm. Sure. The attorney Sarah [Harriet Sarah Tropp] said you won’t talk tonight, but you will talk the moment they do that. (Pause) You ain’t got nothing to say that’s gone hurt us legally, shit, that’s all been said. They comin’ to get us anyway. ‘Cause (stumbles) the only way they’re gon’ get us is with a, uh, pine box.

Crowd: Shouts of affirmation

Jones: And– and they won’t even need– they probably won’t need that many pine boxes, ‘cause when we get through with them and us, they won’t be able to separate one from the other. Just a big steam shovel. Anyway– But you, you will be in the newspapers, just as sure as hell. Everyone who lies told us you would– they won’t believe anymore.

Unidentified male: (unintelligible – in background)

Jones: They’re likely to get (unintelligible word).

Long pause, soft background voices and ambiance. One male questions and verbally attacks Partak.

Jones: Right on. Say that (unintelligible word) again. Hear that (unintelligible word)– hear her– hear that Southern black voice talking to you?

Unidentified woman:– lie, and I’m sure you didn’t.

Jones: You did, did you not? Keep it in the bank all that time?

Partak: Uhh– We– I wasn’t– (Stumbles over words)

Jones: (Stumbles over words, mocks Partak) Ahhwawalala.

Crowd: (Mocks Partak for whiffing words)

Partak: Uh, uh, I guess, I was living in a commune and all–

Crowd: (Distinctly female voices heard, accusatory, angry)

Jones: How many times did we keep you up in Redwood Valley, how long we keep your ass? How many months? How long? (Shouts) Come on, man, be fair!

Partak: Uhh, I was at the commune for about a m– about a, uh, year, and uh–

Jones: You think– You think that’s worth seven hundred bucks? You think that’s worth sixty dollars a month? You ever eat some– you ever, your size, man, ever eat for sixty bucks a month? Get all his heat, and clothes, and everything, for sixty dollars a month?

Partak: Well– Well it’s uh– I had– (Pause) I did have a job while I was living in the commune and in between but I–

Unidentified male: (unintelligible) eleven hundred dollars or a thousand dollars.

Jones: Is there any money in there now? (Pause) I asked him. Is there any money in there now?

Partak: No, the last night I left for Guyana, I sent it all over to Debbie Blakey.

Jones: Mhm.

Crowd: Voices call, ask questions

Partak: How much? It was uh– How much money? About eight hund–

Crowd: Murmurs

Partak: –eight–

Jones: (Interrupting) What else did you have?

Partak: Eight hundred dollars approximately.

Jones: (unintelligible)

Partak: Eight hundred dollars approximately, I believe it was– I was–

Jones: You think you turned over much? Know how much your airfare was? The cost of all the– along the line the taxes, and the extra, and the luggage. You didn’t come here– every human body here, averaged seven hundred bucks. And then you ate all through Georgetown and all the way through here. So you owe us, uh, four thousand seven hundred dollars for the time being.

Unidentified male: (unintelligible – in background) –to let you know you’re an asshole.

Jones: Giving you eight hundred off, you owe us three thousand nine hundred being charitable. (Pause) (Laughs) So who we’ve got Mazor here to fuck with, and you’re the only one that’s got– looks anything like him. (Pause)

Crowd: Muffled shouting, angry

Jones: And he goes– he’s going to his mama’s (unintelligible word) friend when he gets out of here. And he’s gonna walk out, and I’m going to have eighteen snakes at each pass. Coiled. (Pause) One of my own (unintelligible word), they said jump back.

Unidentified woman: (unintelligible) yourself. Why? What the hell w– What do you look like? You may look any different than you! What the fuck’s wrong with you, man? What’s wrong with you? Why you can’t live with us? I’m asking you another damn thing, before you leave your ass out here, pay for your damn board you hear? And uh, and – pay for your board now, you hear? Now, ‘cause I (unintelligible), I’ll whip your ass myself.

Crowd: Muffled affirmation, shouts

Jones: (Laughs)

Unidentified woman: Goddamn, uh, you a goddamn bonehead if you want to be white and right, and you’re white and wrong, goddamn it.

Jones: (Laughs louder)

Unidentified male: He laughed.

Jones: (Shouts) Oh, Jesus!

Crowd: (Shocked noises)

Jones: No, it’s–

(Pause, voices continue in the background, with one woman speaking to Jones or Partak)

Jones: I’m glad he didn’t. They don’t deserve any of it. It’s too beautiful.

Crowd: Aggressive voices, presumably directed at Partak

Unidentified male: Partak, what you got to say, man?

Unidentified individual: You stupid punk!

Jones: (Angrily, shouting) I still want to know, I’m the FBI, I’m Mr. FBI and I wanna know what you’re gonna do. Are you gonna go five years to the pen? You’re gonna talk on Peoples Temple. You’re gonna tell us what you know. You’re gonna be here for a press conference, and I’ll be right back there like you saw, the FBI standing right by their agent, the (unintelligible word) agent, standing right behind all that bunch, Jim Cobb and all of ‘em, Mickey [Touchette], and then right behind them was an agent. (Unintelligible word) his fucking face ‘cause he’s been on this fucking floor. We know him. He was setting right there, looking, watching to see that everything went just right. He didn’t say a mumbling word. But he was setting there, while they all got their fucking asses on TV. His name was [David] Conn. If you watched the TV, you saw his fuckin’ face right there, talkin’ bout how he hated whites– uh, b– blacks, how he was gonna kill ‘em all. And all of our fuckin’ black people stand up there, sellin’ out to him, and you tell me Jim Cobb would sell out and stand up there on front of a TV in front of an agent and you wouldn’t? (Pause) What makes me– supposed to believe more in you than Jim Cobb? He’s supposed to have an education. He’s supposed to understand just what it is to be black. He went through enough. That agent sure did lead him out to piss, then. They even volunteered it. They all knew they were in the CIA, they all gonna get it. Every one of you, remember, they all gonna get it. Because there’s knew– they knew, you have the weapon of the Interpol, on the twenty-fourth day of February, they met with the Nazis.[3] Jim Cobb, [Wayne] Pietila – you name ‘em, who all went out. I’ll tell you whether they were there or not. Danny [Pietila]? Yes. Ruth Kerns, Jeanette [Kerns], (Unintelligible name) too, oh yes. Tha– uh, everytime. Wayne Pietila, yes.

Crowd: Voices call out

Jones: No, I don’t know. Don’t know. Don’t know about Vera [Biddulph]. Who? No, no, Richard’s been right there. Laura Cornelious was there (trails off, stumbles). What? Birdie Marable was there. Hm? (unintelligible) was there. Who?

Unidentified male: (Voice too quiet to discern)

Jones: Ah, yes, Saul, [Liz] Forman, all of ‘em were there. All of ‘em involved in it. I don’t know about John Biddulph, I won’t talk what don’t know. Garry Lambrev, and Liz Forman, yeah. (unintelligible first name) Pettit wasn’t there, they– they blackmailed him unintelligible first name) Pettit. They said that she will never see her babies again, never have them again, unless she got up in front of the newspaper. That’s what they do, that’s what– that’s what Mrs. Mertle [Deanna Mertle, aka Jeannie Mills] did. That’s what this fuckin’ Nazi did. Behind them – Mazor – took her kids, she don’t have her kids to this day. She shouldna lied for him. They could’a got her out. She listened to him, and she still don’t have her kids. She come crying into the Temple – what was it, not more than a month ago – talkin’ about people, saying, I’m sorry, I woulda never done anything to hurt Jim Jones. Yeah, but she did. And they still got her kids and she can’t see ‘em. They took her kids away. She lied for ‘em, because of her kids. When it’s ‘sposed to be you, you gone do it?

Partak: I don’t think I’d–

Jones: You and I know it, (unintelligible word). Convincing him is what I’m worrying about.

Partak: I don’t think I can do anything to you, Father (unintelligible)

Jones: (Interrupts angrily) I didn’t ask you that, fucker!

Partak: Well, I’m–

Jones: Wanna start a merry go round tonight?

Partak: I’m not– I’m just explaining–

Crowd: Shouts at Partak

Female voice: What the fuck did you say?

Jones: I didn’t ask you about – about what you can do something for this cause. I asked you what you gonna do when the FBI stands in your face.

Partak: I’m trying, I–

Jones: I’m gonna ask you again, what– I’m the FBI. All right fella, well, wh– what you gonna do, fella? You wanna get booked?

Crowd: Shouting at Partak

Jones: Wanna get a bug on and talk? Wanna talk?

Unidentified male: Huh? What you gonna say to them tomorrow, huh? Say something![4]

Jones: Tell us how, uh, how you feel about Peoples Temple. Peoples Temple. You like Peoples Temple?

Unidentified male: Huh?

Partak: (unintelligible, sounds like: “I didn’t catch that real good, but, I been saying w–“)

Unidentified male: You like Peoples Temple? Do you like Peoples Temple? Do you like Peoples Temple? You like Peoples Temple, Partak? No, listen to me, you like Peoples Temple? Huh?

Partak: I think there’s a– (unintelligible)

Unidentified male: You like Peoples Temple? Huh? You like Peoples Temple? Huh, say something! Get up– stand up!

Jones: All right, now–

(Tape edit)

Jones: (mid-sentence) –state your business, they couldn’t get me down here on murder, and they’re not– and they wouldn’t negotiated a treaty right now.

Partak: (unintelligible)

(Tape segment ends 41:59)


Part II

Jones: (unintelligible) attempts for the world to kill as many uh, adult mosquitos as possible by the use of insecticides. As far as the control of breeding is concerned, the full cooperation of the public is essential. The mosquito breeds, readily, near to houses, and can be often found breeding in empty tins, coconut shells, as they are widely– more widely known around the coconut plantations, flower pots, and in collections of water near the house. Old motor car tires are also a common breeding place, and these should not be left in the open to collect water. Our insect control should be taking note of this, though we are not known to have any here, we do have the one mosquito that transmits malaria which we have no need to worry about, if we take the uh, malaria uh, salt, we use salt, which we get in our (unintelligible, sounds like “meals every day”). Whereas mosquitos in North America, United States, transmit arthritis, uh, encephalitis, which is incurable, and several other diseases– one, uh, uh, a parasite that lodges in the bone, uh, the– the autovalve of the heart. The insects (unintelligible) and they transmit diseases that are easily controlled. Thre should be too, the proper disposal or burial of redundant receptacles. These measures are important to other households, but they are also applied to public places such as sports grounds, church grounds, school yards, and other places which are open to the public where uh, receptacles could be dropped and left to harbour mosquitos, like– such as open cans. Now, if everyone does his or her part, this outbreak of Dengue fever could more readily be brought under full control. Above all, it must be remembered that the outbreak could easily spread from district to district if everyone does not cooperate fully. Everyone has to have control– has to try in the control in the breeding of mosquitos.

(Tape edit)

Jones: What has gone wrong in Australia? A decade ago, Australia was considered the new frontier for all the world with glittering opportunities, but now it all seems to’ve turned sour, as a growing mood of pessimism replaces the former national confidence. A tone of despondency permeates society, even though this country of almost limitless mineral resources, and its small fourteen million population of people are now richer than they’ve ever been. After a ten-year absence, the most striking and alarming impact on (unintelligible) is the depth of social conflict gripping the country. Strikes seem to be the new national sport. In Melbourne, Australia’s second largest city, with a population of more than two and a half million, it was recently impossible to know whether electric power would be on or off any time of the day or night, whether you could get to work by public transport, whether you had a job to go to, or whether the schools would be open. The face of the country is changing, but many people don’t like the picture that is emerging.

It was a marked change from the 1960s when Australia took pride in the fact that for more than twenty years, unemployment and inflation were non-existent. Migrants flocked from other part of the world, to this huge, friendly, populated island continent, from overcrowded Europe, seeking new better lives for themselves in (unintelligible) developing country isolated from most international conflicts, with an easy, comfortable lifestyle that was the envy of much of the world. Nobody seems to know what went wrong. Unemployment continues to shoot upwards towards a record of 500,000, yet the newspapers are full of advertisements seeking both skilled workers of all types which go unanswered. Productivity continues to decline, pushing up costs, which puts jobs in jeopardy, yet strikes for still higher wages continue unabated. Australians have begun to blame the deteriorating situation on what they call “the English sickness,” said to be imported by British trade union leaders which does not help minority relations. Australia has an “all– white” policy, which meant people are banned, Asian or black background are permitted to integrate.

Welfare payments. The unions, uhh, pressure the government to increase welfare payments which in turn makes it more profitable to be on the dole, unemployment– unemployed, that is. Thousands of young people are finding uh, they can manage quite comfortably working at odd jobs without paying taxes, while picking up their weekly seventy-odd dollars from the government. This kind of situation was unthinkable ten years ago. The welfare payments were admittedly small, but there was also a social stigma attached to anyone not doing (unintelligible word) pride. Many of the social ills are attributed by political opponents to the sharp (unintelligible word) of cabinet Labor Party leader, (unintelligible) when government funds were distributed lavishly, and inflation climbed into double figures for the first time in Australia’s history. Labour party– Labour party leaders and supporters ended 22 years of unbroken right-wing conservative rule until 1973 when the party briefly regained power. But social divisions, present unemployment levels, and what they assert are the growing number of poor and impoverished people in the cities, have (unintelligible) mass-election campaign in the last five years, Labor has mounted a full-scale attack on the ruling right-wing conservative government for cutting back on national, social, educational, and welfare funds (unintelligible word) attack– attacks on trade unions. The government’s union-bashing tactics, strike-breaking, scab workers, labour claims have widened divisions between the working and middle classes, and dimmed the once deep-felt Australian dream of a society without bitter class distinctions which are now so very present. The present Liberal-Conservative government returned to power two years ago after a big electoral rejection of Labour, seems powerless to improve the situation. Certain (Unintelligible) seem to be living more lavishly than United States citizens in some ways. Two-car families are no longer a rarity, and the number of foreign national cars seen cruising on modern highways point to the spread of a middle-class affluence. One of the common complaints now is that Australians can no longer manufacture anything decent. Once proud to drive locally assembled cars, Australians, like United States citizens, now prefer to pay hefty import taxes for the privilege of owning foreign imports which are better made. Today, the country appears less and less like a British outpost, and more like California in the USA, with huge suburban shopping centres, (unintelligible) strips around the major cities, and homes equipped with dishwashers, washing machines, and colour television, and passive personalities, who stand transfixed before the TV boob tube, when they’re not out drinking or involved in the drug traffic.

(Tape edit)

Last reading of the news for the night, and then following will be the rerun on the television of Soldier Blue, a fantastic moral film.

Guyana Chronicle says Biko’s murder yet another South African scandal that goes unanswered by the Western world. If there’s one thing which is more obnoxious than crass violations of people’s human rights, it is the attempt to give the impression of solicitude over those rights. This is why the current affairs going on in South Africa in the aftermath of the murder of black consciousness leader Steve Biko is so offensive to we who are Third World people.

It is hardly surprising that the police chief has been cleared of any responsibility, and his entire force, of the (unintelligible word) man’s murder. Other vindications can be expected from time to time until probably a couple of the modern day stormtroopers eventually a receive a light rap on the knuckle to appease the ire of an outraged Third World. The racist minority regime in Pretoria is brazen enough to believe that such an eventual response will be enough to satisfy world opinion and the demand for justice from all progressive Third World nations. No doubt they are brazen in this opinion, because the United States has refused to grant sanctions – economic sanctions – against this Pretorian fascist regime. It would be puerile to believe that the trial going on in South Africa over Biko’s death is not a political matter. The regime and what it stands for, are now more than ever under the unblinking glare of Third World scrutiny and condemnation. American foreign policy today is such that the regime is being publicly rapped by its strongest ally, and cannot as easily get away as in the past with atrocities against the black majority in the country, although the American foreign policy follow-through will probably be weak in the net result. On the other hand, it must be borne in mind also, that the regime represents a system, that of apartheid – racist separatism – which cannot be allowed at any cost to spread to the rest of the world and infect mankind further. Systems have a way of bein– being able to absorb shocks and still survive, and it is purely survival reflex that has caused the regime to stage this mock hearing which is now going on.

And after the reading of this news, which was Sunday’s Chronicle, I just reported to you that Steve Biko’s brother [Khaya Biko] has been arrested and charged with a crime that means automatic sentence of five years.

The world should therefore not be lulled into any belief that the Pretorian regime has suddenly succumbed to an attack of conscience. Such fascist regimes, wherever they are found, in whatever guise, rarely do. In fact, whatever illusions the world might be tempted to nurture over the Biko hearing, will be probably soon to disappear, as the regime further flexes its muscles after its landslide victory at recent elections. The result of that travesty of democracy has already been interpreted by the regime as a mandate to toughen up, if that was possible, on dissent, as witnessed by the hearing of Biko’s brother and the other arrests that are following. (Pause)

The Biko response of South Africa is determined wholly by domestic mood, the mood of the ruling white minority, who put the fascists clique back into power, by eighty to one, who hold (unintelligible word) of military and political power. The world might rant and rave over what is going on in the country, but until the ruling minority itself softens up with the milk of humanity, very little will change. And that change cannot be expected without violent revolution. That is why the international pressure must be stepped up, and not allowed to slacken. The only hope of those like Steve Biko, who are willing to risk their lives for the freedom of their people, is that they are not fighting alone, and that when they are martyred, they will be mourned by like-minded liberators, who will continue the struggle. Should the international pressure be eased, which we suspect in Guyana that it will, then the Pretorian regime will be able once again to produce the sort of high-powered propaganda that struts into the communication systems of even progressive Third World countries, and cloud the reality of life in South Africa. International pressure has been able to produce the mandatory arms embargo, which the United Nations Security Council recently was forced to slap on Pretoria, and may eventually introduce some form of embargo against the regime in all areas of activity, until there is a change for the better in South Africa. Such isolation is one way of making the regime understand the mood of an offended humanity.

The struggle for freedom is universal, the freedom is indivisible, the lofty concept is enshrined in commem– commemorative plaques on monuments in Guyana and elsewhere, for the world is still at that stage of its development where there are other nations, other peoples, other groups of people who are just awaiting an opportunity to enslave others and make them produce for them, while they manipulate the levers of power and elitism, and play at being gods. If it is allowed to continue indefinitely in South Africa, it could be taken as an example of disinterest by most of mankind and be used as a model by governments elsewhere. But the struggle for majority government in South Africa, or even simply dismantling the edifice of apartheid, would be a long and hard process, not the least reason being that much of the world’s communication system still is in the hands of a powerful few, which, who are of the mentality of the rulers of South Africa, if nothing more, has still not been sensitised enough to the issue, or does not even want to be, as most of the media, which is imperialist-controlled in the USA. It is hard to say, for example, there is a persistent illusion in some of the national media, to the minority in South Africa as the white tribe, are why Westerner– Western television announcers prefer a phrase like, they are being forced to draw their wagons into an ever tightening circle, thus alluding to them as the Pioneers who settled the USA. What a terrible misnomer, to call the fascist clique that has imposed this racist regime on South Africa, in any way, compare them to democrats uh– or even a (unintelligible word) to a democratic republic. It is not the white minority in South Africa that are under siege, it is the black majority. And if most of the progressive world believes pressure should be put on the minority rulers, this is certainly not a case of beseeching them, in the same sense that has conjured up by forces who are as reminiscent of the struggle of the Americans against the Indians in the West, even though that was a bloodthirsty, uh, imposition of– of uh, terror, on the people who likely owned America. It is not the world’s black encircling a small band with bloodthirsty intent, but the rest of humanity protested often on grounds which have been taught by all that is held dear to us in civilisation – democracy, humanity, and justice. Many governments may today be publicly against the system of government and its manifestations in South Africa, but many of the forces behind those governments – I only have one more paragraph – have no intention to have the status quo changed. That is a reality against which all genuine supporters of people like Biko have to– have to face. (unintelligible word) relationship takes the lead of the USSR – the United Soviet Socialist Republics – and withdraw, even the uh, diplomatic recognition, until the South African regime comes into– uh, comes to coincide with the policies of humanity. The months ahead may very likely witness a withdrawal of the regime further into itself, but only to the extent that it is pulling away from any overtures of international acceptance. This could mean even harder crackdown on dissent, and the murder of many, many, many more Bikos.

Further, the uproar over Steve Biko’s death has been so well orchestrated that another fundamental issue – that of independence for Zimbabwe – and for Namibia – have to vie hard for international attention these days. The Pretoria fascist regime is a colonial power in the area, and much of what eventually happens will depend on how it perceives its strategic and other interests. Civic fear, as seems probable, that it was being isolated further that it will no doubt, seeing no wisdom in wanting to cut loose from what was previously the high point of South African embarrassment – the intransigence of the Salisbury power clique in Zimbabwe, in its own determination to hold on to Namibia, against wishes of the world. But that should not (unintelligible word) freedom fighters, in fact it should more help to harden the case for majority rule and genuine democracy, not only in Zimbabwe or piecemeal, but throughout Southern Africa, says the Chronicle reporter, Mohamed Hamaludin.

Now, the beginning of the movie. Thus ends commentary and reading of the news, Soldier Blue.

(The remainder of the tape is divided between audio of Soldier Blue, and what is presumably the original audio on the tape reversed: a recording of the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra).


[1] The hobo colony at Waldorf-Astoria was the focus of a NYT article on November 29, 1977. This is the article Jones is referring to. Thanks to Adrian Whicker for locating this article.

[2] In tape 939, Jones indicates “We gonna eat some meat on Christmas Day… ain’t nothing good about Jesus being born, but I want – I do want to have some ham on Christmas Day”. Q939 recorded on December 22, 1977. Further confirms Dec 25 date of 948, along with notes of Dec 25 Peoples Rally.

[3] The connection between Interpol and Nazis is one that Jones stressed on occasion, and the Temple distributed a statement on “Interpol Special Agent Attacks Jim Jones and Peoples Temple.”

[4] IF I heard this snippet of audio correctly, (41:12) could this be in reference to the planned visit of Howard and Beverly Oliver who visited between December 19th and 26th?