Q051 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Jones: (Sternly) Now get your ass up here, or you will regret it. (Pause) There’ll be nothing more than a discussion with you now, but if there is anything, any delay past that minute, then I’ll do with you what I want to do with you. (Pause) What I must do to you. (Pause) How many seconds? (Pause) Thirty seconds? You better be on your goddamn feet. Try to play— play— have— have fun. It’s you that you’re playing with. And it won’t be a sudden death. You’ll wonder for a loonng time what’s taken place. (Pause) Yes, Joe. (Pause) What do you say? (Pause) Well, if it can’t be you, then don’t worry about it. (Pause) Everybody had a delay there. I’ll give you one more time. (Reprimanding) Anyone that heard such comment, or made it— (Pause) Okay. The person that hears is as responsible as the one that said, so— (Pause) (Whispered) Shit. (Normal tone) I tell you— I tell you to stay alert and don’t be out unless you’re supposed to be out. (Pause) Stand up and stretch. Now the last time I want to say it. (Pause) I seriously do mean business about it. Now we’ve got firepower here, and that firepower will protect us against our enemies, whoever they are, foreign or domestic. (Pause) Don’t be moving unless you’re supposed to be moving again. You hear me? (Pause) (Short laugh) I would be dissuaded, what capitalist pigs do. (Pause) (Sound of concussion) (Pause) See that? That was a faulty bullet. Did you hear what I said? Don’t— Capitalism will not be— it won’t be, ah, dissuaded. I made it work, even though it wouldn’t work the first time. (Pause) Failed to go off. Did you hear— Did you see me? Who else— who else would fire a bullet that turns out to be a dud? (Pause) Huh? Who’d fire— Who’d fire— shoot off a ca— a cannon that the first one’s a dud? And I said— you heard what I said, I don’t know the exact words I said. I said, I won’t— I won’t be dissuaded by capitalism, or something like that. And I just cocked it and fired it again. Same bullet. ‘Cause it only holds one. This kind of a device only holds one. But it could blow you— blow a hole in you the size of a bathtub. (Pause) So we are in better position we were in the Fillmore.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

Jones: Sit down. Sit down.

Voice in crowd too soft.

Long pause.

Man: I don’t know. I heard— I heard from somebody, but I’m not sure— I was walking by or what. But I— when I— I just heard— heard similar words. (Pause) I don’t remember— I remember the person, not what I said, but— I believe I was walking by. Or I was standing there. I’m not sure.

Jones: Where was it? The cottages.

Man: Nnn— No, I think, um—

Jones: Then you’re not the witness to the—

Man: No, no. I’m not the witness, but I heard it when I was walking by. I was standing in one certain spot.

Jones: What did you heard?

Man: Um, let me think of the words. (Pause) It was similar— it was similar words you— you said, but —

Jones and man talk over each other.

Jones: — Security? Put people at arms if they— if they move out of here any more. (Pause) We got devices that can shoot 150 yards, no— nothing but a stream of flame. (Quiet, intense) So don’t fuck with us. (Pause) We’re in a war council. When that’s finished, fine. Till we decide our strategy, don’t fuck with us. (Pause) Go ahead.

Scattered applause. Long silence.

Man: I don’t know if it was by— close to the cafeteria or not, but— (Pause) The—

Male voice: Excuse me. Uh, Mary Tschetter? Would you please come to the back? Um, not Mary Tschetter. Mary Weatherspoon, please. (Pause) Mary Weatherspoon. Where is she? (Pause) Wotherspoon, excuse me.

Voices too low.

Man: (Unintelligible word) if I remember it correct— right— but I’m not sure I’ll have all the right, correct words to it. (Pause) If— if you go to Geo— go to Geo— Georgetown— (Pause)

Jones: If you go to Georgetown, what, son?

Man: Um— (Pause)

Long pause

Man: You will run or— or hang around for some reason or the other. I’m not sure exactly the correct words he said.

Long pause

Jones: You think about it, if you will, try to get this story together.

Long pause

Woman: Dad, I heard a nurse say something, but I don’t— I know her first name, but I don’t know her last name.

Jones: What’d she say?

Woman: And uh, we was talking about— I was asking her if I uh, had all my teeth pulled and had to go to Georgetown, would they send a nurse with, and would she go. And she just said she— if she go, she might not get back. So I don’t know what she had reference to. Lois was her first name. I don’t know her last name. (Pause) (Unintelligible word)

Long pause.

Jones: Does anybody know anything, uh— any remark again, I want to ask, (Unintelligible word) any remark (Pause) about Georgetown, I’m going to say it again, child, if you want to keep playing with us. You went to Georgetown, you take a back door and be gone. (Pause) You might take one. (Pause) Now I think we all understand now, we’ve giv— given enough hints, haven’t we?

Crowd reacts.

Jones: Hmm?

More reaction.

How many with the uplifted hand think we’ve been given enough hints? (Pause) Okay. (Pause) She didn’t want to say something about it? (Pause)

Woman: (unintelligible) didn’t know we was talking about going to Georgetown, and I asked you, if you would go with me, would you— you know, if I had to have all my teeth pulled out, and would they send a nurse with me, and would you go, and you said, if you go, you don’t know, you might not make it back.

Another woman: Perfect.

Low conversation.

Lois: I don’t know what I said, but I wouldn’t have said that. I mean, I wouldn’t— I— I think I might have said that uh, I’d don’t think they’d let me uh, go with you. That’s what I said to you.

Woman: (voice cuts in abruptly) —go with you, you might not make it back. I heard it clearly.

Lois: Now that isn’t so. I mean, I have no— what would I do? (Pause) Shit. (Pause) I don’t know what you’re hearing, but you didn’t hear me say that. And you insisted on— you came over again um, the other day and asked about it again. (Pause) (Unintelligible) I— I don’t really get this—

Woman: I don’t know what you said, but that’s what I heard.

Lois: All right. I mean, I don’t know what you’re saying, really—

Jones: (Unintelligible) Reverend [Edward] Moore, where did you get the impression that, um— while she decided what she said (Unintelligible). Ah, Reverend Moore, where did you get the impression that Kay Nelson was going back when she had never— not uh, even talked about it, other than in private, if she were to go back on mission from me. How wo— How would you know that to ask her to send a mel— rel— message back to your— by your— to your relatives?

Moore: Dad, that was just in my mind myself.

Jones: It was in your mind?

Moore: Just in my mind myself. I just (unintelligible word) the idea myself. I didn’t get it—

Jones: Strange th— strange thing to say to somebody. No— Nobody’s ever come yet that wanted to go back. Are we back?

Jack Beam: I think we’ve been long enough to know, not to even ask anyone to do that kind of thing. Now how long have you been here?

Moore: I been here—

Beam: One day is too long, to have— to have— to have— to—

Low conversation.

Young female: And, um, what I want to know, why in the hell you want to send messages to relatives, ‘cause you ask me to— if I write a letter back to the States to ah, ask McElvane to call your relatives. What you want to get in contact with them for?

Moore: Well, I—

Beam: I would like to know what the message was, (unintelligible name— sounds like “Karen”).

Another male: Uh, he don’t— he didn’t ask me to give a message as to— oh yeah, the message was to— he wanted them to know where he was, and uh, he handed me a paper the first day, and after I reported it, uh, I remember that I didn’t get the paper, so I went back to him and told him maybe I could get it across, and I got the paper from him (Pause) with their address on it and everything.

Beam: Why you want to know— Why you want them to know where you are?

Moore: Well, I just want to write them. I— and uh— I ain’t got to heard from them ‘bout two months now, just thought maybe it was all right for me to write them.

Male in crowd: Yeah, but who in the hell are they?

Beam: Okay, that’s fine, you want to write them. Just write them a letter. Write them a letter. (Pause)

Moore: The main thing, I was wanting to hear from my daughter, ‘cause Dad told me— when he call me out one night and blessed me, he say he was going to save my daughter. I wasn’t concerned about nobody but her. (Pause) He told me that he was going to save my daughter, and so I was wanting to hear from her. The main thing, I was wanting to hear from her.

Woman’s voice too soft.

Moore: I told her, I was going to meditate for her, and I just wanted to know how she feel—

Different voices.

Male in crowd: You got something to say, go to the microphone.

Young woman: Well, if you have a message to send to somebody in the States, all you have to do is write a letter and give it to the right person, and it’ll get there. That’s all you have to do. You don’t have to go around talking to everybody, trying to find out what they’re doing and their business.

Marceline: Do you need, do you need, uh, help writing a letter?

Moore: Well, I do, because uh, I’m not really educated enough.

Marceline: Well, it’s— and you’re— you’re one among many, many, many of us, so you don’t need to be upset about that, but if you need help writing a letter, it would have been best to say, Would you help me write a letter? Would you—

Moore: Yeah. Yeah. That’s right, mother. I b— I’ll agree with you.

Beam: Reverend Moore, you’re— you’re— even though you’re not educated, you still have a lot of mother wit. And so— and you’ve heard Dad talk a long time about uh, not doing that kind of thing, to talk to any— any new person coming in about that kind of thing. And so why did you not raise this question— you see— you see me, you see Lee [Inghram], you see Charlie [Touchette], you see Ava [Inghram], you see a lot of people. You know, uh, Rita Lenin [Rita Tupper]. You know Rhonda. So how come you didn’t approach any of us with this, to help you write a letter?

Moore: Well, I should have. I wasn’t thinking. I should have, and I’m sorry. I am so sorry I did it. I’m really sorry I did it. Because I don’t—

Marceline: I bet you are, now that you got caught.

Moore: I am— I am really sorry. Oh, I wasn’t trying to hide it. I wasn’t trying to hide it, Mother, ‘cause I wouldn’t— I wouldn’t—

Beam: Well, why didn’t you give it to Dad, then?

Moore: I wouldn’t— I—

Beam: Why did you give it to Dad?

Moore: Well, I ought to have been, I just wasn’t thinking. I just wasn’t thinking right. Because— I wasn’t— (Slowly, deliberately) Because I was not putting my family ahead of Dad. Not— no reason. And I will not do it. Because that’s the first time I ever said anything. I been by, by him ‘bout four months, and that’s the first thing I ever said anything about.

Beam: Even that’s wrong. Even that’s wrong, because Dad said if there’s anybody here that you want to get here, to let— to let him know. (Pause) So every— so everything you’re coming up with, Brother Moore, it— it just doesn’t hold— it doesn’t— it doesn’t make sense. (Pause) You see— you say you don’t think, but Dad teaches us daily to think for ourselves. (Pause) You know, and then you start talking religious. Just how religious are you? (Pause) Once Jim Jones says something, that’s his word.

Marceline: I understand the— Rita Lenin says you have written. So in fact you can write letters. (Pause) You were giving me a bunch of (Pause) what.

Moore: Yeah. I— I— Mother, I’ve written, but I’m not educated enough to write good.

Marceline: Well, you don’t have to write good if you get your message across. (Pause) If you’re getting your message across, you’re writing good.

Jones: What are they hunting— what are they hunting for you in the States for?

Moore: They are not hunting for me, Dad.

Crowd reaction.

Jones: Why would I ask you a question like that?

Moore: Who do they ask me a question?

Jones: Why would I ask you such a question out of the clear blue nothing?

Moore: Oh, I— I don’t know what they— I feel like they trying to ah— I feel like they’re trying to write me, and I just wondering why that I couldn’t get no letters.

Male in crowd: No no no no no no.

Jones: No, I didn’t ask that. I said, why would somebody be hunting for you, in the United States?

Moore: Oh. Ah, no reason why, ‘cause I hadn’t did nothing. (Pause) I hadn’t— I hadn’t commit no crime. You know—

Jones: Or— or paid all your debts and all that?

Moore: Well, I think ah, one debt was like— and I turned it to over— I turned my land over to the church, and trailer, and I put that in, and I don’t know what Kay then paid it off or not. (Pause) I put—

Jones: (Unintelligible) question, that’s what Kay told me. (Pause) Kay hasn’t told me nothing about the hunting— hunting— nobody hunting for you.

Moore: No, wasn’t— wasn’t nobody hunting for me, Dad. (Pause) Nope.

Jones: Did you have some agreement with the— your family if they didn’t tell uh, where you were?

Moore: My family ain’t told me— told nobody where I’m at, not as I know, ‘cause I hadn’t heard from them since I been here.

Jones: That’s not what I said. Did you have any kind of agreement with your family that you not— they not tell where you were?

Moore: Yes. (Pause) I— (Pause) Well, I— I been wanting to tell me— tell nobody where I went. Where I come. (Pause) Well, I just thought that was ah, all right to tell them ‘cause I wasn’t dodging or nothing. I ain’t— I ain’t did no crime. No police crime or nothing like that. (Pause)

Male in crowd: (voice fades in) — come in here? What are you trying to avoid then?

Jones: I’m still interested in you say, why of all people would you pick Kay out to, uh, as if she would be going back? Where would you get the possible impression she was going back?

Moore: Well, I— just like I said. (Pause) That’s just my idea myself.

Jones: Perception. Just a kind of intuition, huh?

Moore: I don’t know. I guess I just— I just wondering, was she going?

Jones: Well, why didn’t you ask Clara, who came that same night, or 55 other people, or the 80 others who came over the week?

Moore: Well, the reason why I wouldn’t ask Clara because I heard Clara say she was going to stay.

Jones: You did.

Moore: Said she decided to stay. I think that’s— ain’t that what she said?

Jones: I’m sure she said— (Pause)

Low voices in crowd.

Woman: Yeah. (Unintelligible word) On the day he was leaving in the States, he was making a lot of phone calls on the Temple phone downstairs in the lobby, calling his relatives and telling them where he was going and he didn’t need any money and how good he was going to be living and stuff. And he said that uh, if you got any money, just keep it, ‘cause I’m not going to need it where I’m going. (Pause) I was told that you weren’t supposed to be calling on the phone, talking about these kinds of things, and he was just— he made about five or six phone calls that morning. (Pause)

Moore: Well, it was no harm in telling— telling them that ah, I was— I was going to be all right where I was going. I did tell them that. I told them— my daughter— she said, let me know if you need any money. Just like I told her. I said, I will not need no money. I said, where I’m going, I will be take care, you don’t have to worry about me, I got a good pastor love me, and all the members love me. Well she said, then, she said, we love you too. You didn’t hear. You didn’t hear it, but she said, we love you too. I said, the— the pastor love me, and all the members love me. And I said, you don’t have to worry about me. I say, you don’t have to send me no money— (Pause) Ain’t that what I said? I said, you don’t have to send me no money.

Male voice in crowd: Why’d you do that?

Beam: Okay well, let’s— let’s— let’s— let’s get back to this issue, then we can go on to some more issues. Why did you tell— ask Kay to do this? Will you explain just one more time for all of us? Then we go on to something else more relevant.

Moore: Well, just like I said. I had in mind, that just come to my mind, that I believe that Kay was going back.

Beam: You’re not a prophet, though, you’re not a prophet, though. So what— so why did— why did it come to your mind?

Moore: I really don’t know. I just— I just— It just come to my mind. I believe that—

Beam: Wouldn’t it— wouldn’t it seem to you if you’ve written some letters already — and that’s the same address that you gave Kay — that if— if your folks didn’t write you back, they didn’t want to hear from you anymore?

Moore: Well, I don’t know. I, ah— I was—

Beam: How many letters have you written? Four letters?

Moore: Oh, I think I wrote about ah, three or four, something like that. I can’t— I can’t recall—

Beam: Dad explained to us conspiracy they were going through our mails on both sides, but uh— at least one of those three or four letters cou— could have gotten through.

Moore: Yeah. Well—

Beam: So— so just— just by that, just by that alone, if one letter got through and they did not contact or bother contact you, and they knew the last place you were was in— at the Temple, and they didn’t bother contact the Temple, they don’t want have anything else to do with you.

Moore: Well, I tell you—

Beam: Would you agree to that— to that reasoning? If they didn’t contact the last place where you— where they know — and they know we’re still there. They can’t help but know we’re still there —

Jones: (fading in) If they got no mail from you, and you’ve been gone mon— for months now, uh, they would have gotten hold of the U.S. Embassy, people do that just to do it— to provoke things and to con— to conspire to cause difficulty, just cause trouble. So if anybody was concerned, don’t you think they would’ve uh, contacted you through the State Department, the U.— the U.S. Embassy or the uh, police or called the Son— San Francisco Temple about you if they had concern?

Moore: Yeah, I— I believe it, Dad. I believe it. But I’ll be honest and tell you true. (Pause) I will not put my family beheld to you, Dad, in this family, because I know it’s not right to do it. I will not do that.

People murmur in audience.

Another male: When you went to Kay and didn’t go through the regular process, you did that. Furthermore. You went— you put yourself and your desires ahead of this family. And Dad.

Jones: (Reprimanding) If you’d want to get a message through, you’ve been told over and again to contact me. The moment she came, she told me, because we have— our security’s (unintelligible word) on this. The odds of socialism on our side, and we’ve got a jungle out there, we got everything on our side, uh, in terms of uh, resisting an enemy, the equipment to do it, and the mileage to get away from them. But um, we’ve been told over and again, over and again, that you’re su— you’re to clear anything, any message you give. You’re not to ask anybody to give a message, or not to receive a message. You’ve heard that over and again. And of course, once you did that— no dislike for you— she told me. The principle thing to do— what would have been the principle thing for you to do?

Moore: Well, Dad, since I got to think (unintelligible word), I’d agree with you, and I’m sorry I did it. I’m sorry I did it.

Voice in crowd: Answer the question.

Jones: What would have been the principle thing for you to have done?

Moore: Well, it’d been the principle thing to do is let you know it first, Dad. (Stronger voice) Dad, be honest and tell you true. You’ve have so many burdens on you, and I thought maybe— I didn’t want to burden you.

Jones: (Clicks tongue) Hah. Ah, this is, this is a very consternating to me, very disturbing to me, very very disturbing to me. Did you want to take a chance of our security— In the first place, why did you ask her to violate a rule which you knew I had? That’s an insult to her. (Pause) Why’d you pick her out?

Moore: Well, Dad, the reason I picked her out because I really thought in my mind that she was going back.

Jones: Why?

Moore: I don’t know. I just had— Dad, I unt— I’ll tell you true—

Jones: Well, that don’t mat— well, we— we— we’re rational beings, uh, Reverend Moore, um, you just had it in your mind, there’s a thousand people out here and you didn’t have it in your mind that one of the rest of us going back, except Kay. (Pause) I’m sure she’s going to work on this proving your pathetic abilities. (Pause)

Moore: Well, Dad, I just had it in my mind. I don’t know why.

Voice in crowd: (unintelligible) — thousand people in here. You could have asked me, you could have asked somebody else (unintelligible)

Jones: How many people out here are from Los Angeles?

3rd male: How many? Uh— Look at that— look at that crowd— look at— turn around there and see.

Jones: Better than half the crowd. (Pause) Why didn’t you ask them?

Moore: (voice quieter, like mike moved away) Well, I didn’t think, Dad. I think— (voice fades)

First male: Even if you had thought I was going back, you shouldn’t have given me a message to take back for you, ‘cause you must have thought I was a traitor or something.

Another soft voice: It was his problem.

Moore: Well, if it was an insult, I’m sorry, Kay.

Jones: No, no if— if— no if. It is an insult. We have a strict rule (stumbles for words) She’s quite right in saying that. It’s a insult. I don’t know where you’d ever get an idea that I thought anything but her of the highest, and you must have got that idea someplace, because I don’t believe anybody’s got any insights but me. Something must give your, your head the idea that uh, she would listen to your bullshit, and uh, pass on about relatives, when I’ve preached against relatives, telling you, don’t trust them, don’t have anything to do with them, they fucked over half the congregation, I’ve been over and over and over and over and over and over and over— cut off from them— we’ve had people I’ve had to protect every night, they been set up schemes to try to get them under conservatorship, they’ve tried to arrange that some of their child was dying and tell them their children was dying, their momma was dying, their momma and dad both dying, we’ve had everything done, dirty tricks of relatives. Then all of a sudden, you come up with the one big thing we tell, I preach every meeting, forget relatives. Jesus said, who is my father, my mother, my sister or my brother except he that does the will of the one that sent me. Who sent you?

Moore: That’s right, Dad.

Jones: Who sent you?

Moore: You.

Jones: Well then, do they accept me?

Moore: No— no, Dad, they don’t—

Jones: Then they— you— you should have nothing to do with them.

Voices in crowd: Right. (Applause) (Tape cuts off for several moments)

Beam: Ben Barrett, who do you think about all this so far? (Pause) Would you stand up? Give a few comments of what you think of what’s happened here so far.

Barrett: Well, I’m not really sure. It’s all real— really new to me. You—

Beam: It certainly made an impression on you, one way or the other.

Barrett: Well, it’s made an impression, yes.

Beam: What do you think?

Barrett: (Pause) Well. (Pause) I don’t really know what to say. (Pause) I—

Beam: Well, if your life depended on security— (Pause) how would you handle it?

Barrett: I’d do anything in my power, to— (pause)

Jones: (fading in from off mike)— how has this night affected you, being that he’s asked you a question, which was his business, I didn’t ask him to do so. What’s— what’s his uh— uh— How do you feel about what’s happened tonight?

Barrett: When I first got here, let me say, I wasn’t— sure— everything— a little different from the way I expected it. I’ve never been so much involved in the church before.

Jones: Mmm-hmm.

Barrett: But uh, I definitely like it here. You know— I have thought about, you know, going back, but I can’t go back.

Voice off mike: (unintelligible) —expected?

Barrett: Well (pause), it’s a little bit more — I mean, it’s more crowded than I expected it to be, in the housing, which I understand, and— I mean it’s no big problem. But uh, ah, the food, the taste of the different foods are different and unexpected. (Pause)

Woman in crowd: (fading in from off mike) —you couldn’t go back. Why? (unintelligible)

Barrett: Well, I— I just don’t uh, feel like I could go back and be happy there.

Long pause.

Jones: (fading in from off mike) —interesting, interesting that uh, interesting uh, (unintelligible) What is it?

Soft voices in crowd.

Jones: When you stop to think of the crowding and the food— (pause) Um, when you compare that to the States where you had to plan the welfare of your child and your wife the rest of your life. And you’re older than your wife and child, so it’s a chance like some of us that you’d have to see them grow up or provide for them, after you were handicapped or unable to work. Compare that with the security you would have, knowing an environment that— that will never have to be worried about, because you have a thousand neighbors and aunts and uncles that will sustain an organization and a good Dad, a good leader, that will sustain their every medical need and your every medical need, when you’re old, or when you’re handicapped, or when you’re physically down. And I’m— And I wanted to speak to you, because a lot of peo— (burps) people who have those questions ought to think about the whole (Pause) the whole picture. Not to mention nuclear war, racism— not, not only— not only a situation that would affect black people — it’s a little more difficult for you to relate to, because you’ve not been black, but there’s a gross unemployment amongst whites, 350,000 miners are going to go to jail or go back to, to the mines, and they’re white. Those who are unemployed— how many heard what I spoke last night on mutation of genes, DNA, recombinant um, experimentation, they’re going to experiment to make a certain type of human species who will not able to think and only do physical work. They’re messing with the genes. In the same process of doing this, they can create viruses that will kill the whole of the United States, because they don’t know what the hell they’re doing. They’re altering lifestyle. The University of California’s doing it, tax money’s being spent at University— Northwestern University, Michigan State University, which is a CIA front. We know that from our own experience. Michigan State University’s been involved in the conspiracy against us. It is a whole, a whole telecommunications system there involved with such little uh, schemes as how to destroy revolutionaries. (Pause) That’s the— That’s the delightful America. So that, that America will affect you. It is America that has a very short future. If you are in America, you have to think in the terms that your— your beautiful daughter will never grow up. There’s not a scientist that gives any child a chance, that is the age of your child, to make it 14 years. There’s not a scientist that gives a chance for the United States to last 14 years. (Pause) We’re at the 12 o’clock hour. I think it’s a half minute to 12, by the nuclear clock, according to scientists. And no way do they see with all these— every day having a new situation, like now it’s the confrontation of world powers with Israel and Lebanon, last week, Ethiopia and Somalia, in eyeball-to-eyeball nuclear confrontation. Finally, somebody makes a mistake. They’re going to make a bad mistake. Like the guy that come down to South America that was a assistant commander of submarine — how many remember that story? — well, you ought to— you ought to get it in your head, and tell it. He was down in a Polaris submarine. Every two months, the Polaris submarines go through a full test, like it’s an alert. Nobody knows it’s not for real, except the commander. He comes to the point in which he turns the key, if it’s real. Many, many stages, they go through all of them, until he turns the key. Then 16 missiles come out of that submarine that— each of them will destroy a city the size of New York, Moscow, Keev [Kiev], Stalingrad, Leningrad. The night he was on that patrol — one of them, they went through many of them, he used to (stumbles over words) finally you just get steeled to it, and he said he’d— careless, you get careless about your test. But this one night, the captain took the key. He went up and pushed some but— button that gives him some kind of a reconnaissance report, some kind of a communications report, it is a— it— it’s a test. He said, why are you turning that key? He said, mind your own goddamn business. The commander was going to turn the key that would have fired all preset, all 16 missiles. He grabbed the wrench, wrestled with him, and didn’t make it. The captain knocked him down, but fortunately another man was brought into the foreway, and they got him just before he turned the goddamned key. He lost his mind. He’d been under— He went stir crazy, he’d been a— he’d been under the water too long. But that’s the danger you’ve got in a nuclear age. That’s why I wanted to get our people out of it. Not just the racism, but that affects white, black, brown, everybody. There’s not a snowball’s chance in hell that one of these mistakes are not going to go off sometime, and Krush— (excitedly) and [former USSR premier Nikita] Khrushchev told it, while he was president of the Soviet Union, he said, a missile got loose in Siberia and we stopped it just before Hawaii. (Pause) Another missile was in the, in the um, someplace in Siberia, the goddamn thing, uh, earthquake set it off. And they had a hell of a time getting it stopped. In Maryland, man was sitting in his silo, one of the men, he looked out the silo— he just happened to look out the silo window, all of his panel was dead. He looked out and saw the, the bay doors opening on a (stretches out word) great big missile. I don’t know what it was, Titan, and uh, a Minuteman I think, it was a Minuteman missile. He looked, I say, what the fuck is going on? Our panel’s not lit up. And they had to raise hell. And they— and then when seconds— they raised hell, they had to tear out the whole power base, they had to cut their power off, some way, I don’t remember all the complications to stop the power, ‘cause they could do nothing to stop that goddamn missile. And they stopped it within seven seconds and it was targeted in to— I think they even told the news, it was in a digest, se— I think it was Keev, in the Soviet Union. And naturally, if Keev, with all the millions of, of Soviet citizens had been wiped out, the Russians would have immediately retaliated and wiped— there’d have been a nuclear war and, as the Secretary of, of Defense [Harold Brown] said, it’d been over in 20 minutes, and 149 million Americans would have been dead in the first 20 minutes of the war. What happened to that missile? A rat chewed through, and by chance, cross-circuited the sonofabitch. Now there’ve been endless number of accidents like that. Happened in Spain, over Spain, the atomic bomb, they had an accident, and several bombs fell and Spain got— and (stumbles for words) is under dictatorship. [Francisco] Franco got so pissed at U.S., for running around with these missiles, he said you dig up all this ground, you dig it all up, and it was acres and acres and tons and tons, yes, and they dug that goddamn ground, he said, you get that shit out of my country. And they went back and buried it in North Carolina. Buried it in North Carolina, and it was so filled with radiation that nobody will be able to touch that soil for a million years. And they buried it deep in our soil. Only stupid Americans would be— would tolerate a thing like that happening, that they would— could bury that kind of shit. Even a dictator in Fran— in Spain, Franco, had more respect for his people than that. He said, you get that shit out. Because all the tomatoes died, everything, all the plants died, and if it had been the right wind, Madrid would have been destroyed. Every person in the capital of Spain would have been killed. (Pause)

Beam: Since the greater part of our family has been over here, ah, all that atomic waste that they bur— ah, sunk out by the Farrilon Islands has uh, started breaking loose and leaking, and it’s affected the marine life out there, and uh, they can’t seem to stop that, and uh, they just moved a bunch of that nerve gas in Colorado, and the containers had rusted through, and they don’t know what the damage— and they’re— they’re taking it from state to state now, trying to find someplace to put it, so, what he’s talking about is, there is no safety there no more, because the capitalist, uh, greed and uh, uh, their way of life doesn’t guarantee anybody any life at all there. They don’t care about you, or me or anyone else. (Long pause.) There’s some more new folks that have come in, um, and w— we’d like to hear from you, sometime tonight. Not a long dissertation, but there’s about 75 of you just got in here. (Pause) So we have to start calling names? The mike is up here, so if new folks— (Pause) Come on, there’s more than three new people in the— in the damn house. (Pause) I know. (Long pause) And before we get going, Brother Moore, Dad asked you a question, what was— what was wrong with you, then, so we can clear the floor off and— what else is next? And then the— all the new people that were on the long, the long talk, so Brother Moore, wh— what did you do that was wrong? Quickly tell us, please.

Moore: What did I do was wrong?

Beam: You heard me. You heard me. (Pause) You heard me, Brother Moore. What did you do that was wrong?

Moore: Well. Well, whatever I did was wrong—

Beam: Nononononononono. (Deliberate) What did you do that was wrong? Not whatever you did, not what might have been, what did you do that was wrong?

Moore: Oh. Well, one thing I did that was wrong, ah, let Kay— I asked Kay about contacting my peoples. Is that right? So, I did it, and I’m very sorry, I will not never do—

Beam: What was wrong about doing that? We know you did that. What was wrong about doing that?

Moore: Well, I was going against the rules. I was—

End of side 1.

Side two.

Lee Inghram: — why it was messed up and how it could hurt this entire family. You have to understand that, it ain’t one goddamn bit funny.

Beam: (Raised voice) And it’s not a mis— it’s not a mistake. We get ourself off the hook and say it’s a mistake. Uh-huh. Mistake implies that it wasn’t thought out. Now you didn’t seek anybody else out here, to do your carrying your messages for, but Kay. Right?

Moore: Yep, I—

Beam: All right, then, you thought that out, right? So that was not a mistake. (Pause) A mistake is if you come up this corner and turn this way instead of that way to go home, just zoom zoom. You didn’t think about that turn, one way or another, you just made a turn and went. That’s a mistake. But when you think it all out, just as Lee said, (Deliberate) that was a thought-out counter-revolutionary act. And if you don’t see that, you’ll not really correct it, ‘cause you’ll have mistakes the rest of your time.

Moore: Yes. Well, Jack, I see now, I see now.

Jones: (Quickly) I’m going to tell you, Reverend, you should have seen long before. She hadn’t been here a day, and I hadn’t said shit to her about relatives, but she knew. You have been here for months, and every meeting, I have spoken for sever our relationships with our relatives, because of proof we’d had that mothers have betrayed children, and sold them out for $2500, we’d seen all this shit, one was standing right next to you, her mother, couldn’t be any better as American mothers, but she tried to get her in trouble with KGO, we got the goddamn — that letter, by the way, show that letter to her, I had it again today, because I wanted her to see, not that she needs any proof of it, but you need to read letters like that. You do. I don’t think she does, but you do. But I— you— I got, when you got up here, you don’t think your daughter falls in that category. And I know what I’m feeling. You think your daughter does care about you.

Male voice in audience: She told you she (unintelligible word). We told you that.

Jones: Well, what the hell she done about it to prove it? She did tell you she cared, didn’t she? Huh?

Male in audience: You said she did, while ago, when you talked to her on the phone.

Moore: Yeah, she said— she said—

Male in audience: I love you, Dad.

Moore: Yeah.

Jones: And you went into all this story about how much she loved you, that she wanted to take care of you, too. Why hasn’t she sent any money? (Pause) ‘Cause you told her not to?

Moore: Yes, I— I believe it (Jones talks over him)

Jones: — believe it. Uh, don’t you think if she loved you, she might send you a little shirt, uh, or maybe uh, some uh, bon-bons?

Moore: Yeah, I do, Dad.

Jones: ‘Cause after all, you’re the father’s taken care of, which I think was disloyalty on— inconsideration on your part. You oughta told her, well, I, we uh, we could sure use the money. (Pause) I— I think that you coulda done that, if you got a daughter is all that flushed, when I’m fighting for my life here, uh, to— to see that we have the best of all possible worlds, and we’re not where we want to be, in terms of housing, but it, by God when you put up a house, it cost you $3000, you got to be— you got to be goddamn careful that uh, you, you don’t put those houses up until you got all your money invested so people will eat and have enough medication for any disease. We got one pill, one medication, one vial for one person’s condition here that cost (Emphatic) $87. (Pause) So that’s an explanation to you why we can’t have all the housing we’d like to have. I’d much rather be a little crowded, and I’d sure as hell, uh, uh, be glad to do without some of the little luxuries and uh, uh, little refreshments, and uh, enjoy rice. It sure made a strong mission out of the Chinese. I’d much rather have that, than to see somebody in a condition where they’ll go blind or die, if we hadn’t had the right medication came through the— the day before with the dentist that I had to pay a handsome price for us for, Tommy— Tony— Tommy— McMurry, Solomon McMurry would have died. (Pause) One day earlier, if she had had a baby, she’d have died (Pause) without the medication that we could put through her veins, intravenously. (Pause) ‘Cause her blood pressure went to 180 over 120. And that would have killed her and the baby. (Pause) So, by God, to me, those are things you need to weigh — I don’t know how you expect a person anyway, I’m just a poor humble person that was born right by the railroad tracks — I don’t know where in the hell you expect me to come up with some goddamn money to have uh, uh, luxural villa, with a thousand people. How in the hell would you expect me to offer any more? I give you all that you want to eat. (Struggles for words) You can’t expect that to be steak, for Christ’s sakes.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Even American doctors can’t afford meat now. There’s an article in Newsweek that doctors’ families are not making enough money to make ends meet, and professional people not making enough money to make ends meet, and they eat meat once a week. Well, we do that well, and usually better.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

Jones: So, I— I don’t know what you prefer. I— I would prefer having Tiny, uh, uh, Solomon Turner— I’d rather— I’d prefer that she have the medication she’d need, and be a little crowded.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)


Beam: Now, uh— see, and if you had really been into what is going on here, you’d know probably that they woulda fixed it up so you coulda contacted and got some money out of that wench, and woulda helped our cause. (Pause) You know?

One voice in audience: Right.

Moore: Yeah. (Pause) That’s right, Jack.

Beam: ‘Cause there’s nothing back in— in the United States but shit. That’s all.

Moore: That’s right. I know that. That’s right. And I’m— I’m— I’m not thinking about going back there. I’m not thinking about going. (Jack and Moore talk over each other)

Beam: — no, but you been thinking about talking to somebody back there.

Moore: No.

Beam: Yes, you have. Yeah, you— you gotta face that, Ed. You wanted to write ‘em a letter. (Pause)

Moore: Oh yeah, I wanted to write ‘em a letter.

Beam: But I mean, you wanted to get a word uh, by the— the regular way that we have of doing things here, via, or by way of Kay Nelson there.

Moore: Yeah.

Beam: — and ma— uh, make her look like a damn fool, like you know—

Jones: (Off mike, fades in) Oh, you didn’t make her look (unintelligible word) at all. I don’t think it was ten minutes till she got to me. I just now took it up. She didn’t just tell me today. Shit, you know more— got— your— your— your tongue, no more, hung out. Your long long tongue no longer got out and back, until she told me that. (Pause) Now any woman— you ought to know better than this— and I say— I’m saying that you did underestimate her. She had been lived in a marriage, had a successful real estate business, risked that goddamn real estate business for this cause, when the goddamn no-count bastards called whatever their name is, out of all these traitors, I can’t keep up with them. There’re so damn many relative traitors, I can’t keep up with— what are, the Medlocks, gonna give their license, she sold out lock, stock and barrel, div— separated from her husband, let him take his, she went and took hers, came over here and forgot it all. Now, uh, honey, somebody made a bad estimation there and I— I don’t— I don’t— I— seriously, if you don’t know enough about yourself, you better work on yourself. When you were making that kind of conclusion, you were insulting her. Wasn’t no pathetic intuition. You were insulting the woman. (Pause) ‘Cause I had preached deathly, deathly, deathly, no message is given privately or publicly. Now you’re a bright man. Good man. You listen to cues, you say ‘em, you’re a senior, and I would be even firmer, if it were not for the fact that you’re a senior. But by God, now all you better get your ears open, and wake up now. (Pause) Now this— let this be an example. Don’t try to send any messages to anybody. We don’t know who you are. (Pause) And we don’t know what you’re trying to do. (Pause) I do know that one of your relatives is trying to keep somebody from getting a hold of you. (Pause) That you don’t want after you. (Pause) And they’re using it in a threatening way. (Pause) They’re not going to interfere with them getting any information much longer. (Pause) To quote unquote their position and their thought, that’s it. (Pause) So somebody’s looking for you, for something. I don’t bother my children with everything that they’ve got coming down the path. And Kay knows nothing about, ‘cause she didn’t tell me anything about it. She’s not the source of my information. If she does know something about it, she didn’t get it from me. (Pause) She doesn’t know it. She says she doesn’t know. (Pause) Okay. I do. (Pause) I don’t know what you— what arrangements you’ve made, but you ask them to keep some people from knowing where you are, and they said, well, they weren’t going to do it much longer, they couldn’t do it much longer. (Pause)

Moore: Uh, Dad, can I ask a question about—

Jones: You can ask any question you want to.

Moore: Yeah. Uh—

Jones: I may have mentioned it to Rita. Rita, will you come up here (voice fades). Rita Lenin. Back of the stage and talk in my ear.

Moore: Uh, did uh, you know I turned it in— when I turned my land into the church, and I turned it in to (unintelligible) county, I mean, the county, that money? That’s the onliest people I know would be looking for me, if it was not paid off.

Kay: We ran— We ran a check over all— everything you owed and went, went to the title insurance and everything that you owed that was under your name, listed and re— recorded, was paid off prior to funds coming. So that couldn’t possibly be it.

Moore: Well—

Jones: She has clearance. She has clearance to look in my files. Rita has clearance. Go ahead.

Beam: You know what, uh, Brother Moore, even— even that question to Kay now, you— you’re — you’re assuming that it could— coulda been our fault, if anybody was looking for you, that she didn’t pay off one of the bills—

Jones: — Had nothing to do with the church whatsoever. (Speaks slowly and deliberately) Has nothing to do with the church or your property, nothing whatsoever.

Beam: You see that kind of thinking now? You couldn’t possibly done something on your own, to get you in trouble. It had to be somebody else, you know? Us.

Jones: Wish people would do more study of theirselves. We haven’t got all night here to discuss this, because we’ve got other issues to bear, and we are winning some points with the war’s going on in Georgetown, with diplomats and— we got one of them backed up from his position, that got snotty earlier, that I was telling you about. He’s— when I told him I would— we’re not going to do this, and we’re not going to do that, and I took a crazy nigger stance, he is already now being very nice. (Pause) It’s the only on— only language he understand.

Crowd: Claps.

Jones: As I said, we are winning here because we have land to win it with, we got some means to protect ourselves to win it with, we got a position to stand for, and that’s the most dignifying thing in the world, even if it meant you die, which we’re a long way from dying tonight, I can tell you that. Uh— we’ve been close to it, we know the difference. But we have to do some talking because we had issues, because we have said— one thing I promise, when you come over here, every bit of good you’re going to know, and every bit of bad. That eliminates paranoia. Any shit that comes, I may take four or five hours to assess it, because I want to be sure I’m not alarming people prematurely, ‘cause it’s a (struggles for words) painful thing, I don’t like to be alarmed. I like to know things just as they are. And it may take me four or five hours, and this day, it took all day, putting this shit together, but when I got it together, I (unintelligible) over talking to Charlie and Joyce, and that— well, shit. The last thing I heard over my shoulder on the radio, I thought, this is it. They’re gonna have to know about it. They’re gonna have to know about it now. I thought it’d wait till maybe, maybe tomorrow. But it uh, wouldn’t wait till tomorrow. And it’s good that we didn’t, because we been able to get through— got sonbitch out of bed, ain’t nothing like saying we’re gonna die, to get folks out of bed.

Slight audience reaction.

And that’s all— That’s the first phrase I start with. “Would you like for us to die?” (Pause) No, I don’t mean you, man, I— (chuckles) Christ. The first question we ask— and that shows you a relative amount of peace, that when they’re praising us, they been giving us awards, we been honored at various meetings, but we have told those people— on different occasion, we have called the Prime Minister [Forbes Burnham], called his wife [Viola Burnham], and we didn’t like something, we didn’t like the way the CIA was influencing some people, we wanted him to take a stronger stand, that’s why I’m glad to hear some of this shit, that he’s taken a stronger stand with the international bankers— Now, I know they’re a little country, but by God, I wanted him to get back to that character he had when he said to [Henry] Kissinger, fly over. Kiss my ass, I’m going to die with dignity. That’s what I want him to hold onto. And as he said before, we— we saved— [Vibert Mingo] the Minister of Home Affairs said we saved socialism in this country. Well, I’m going to keep on saving socialism on this territory. You can bet— better believe that. And I said, one— one day, I just had one of the secretaries call, I think Paula [Adams] called and said uh, um, if we, if you don’t meet our demands by five o’clock, we’ll be dead. And Patty [Cartmell] jokingly said over the shoulder, and don’t wait until five-fifteen.

Slight laughter.

Jones: So we have quite a bit of mileage here. Fifty, eighty of you coming through, a week, and I’ve talked to those sonsabitches that way more than once. We sat on our ass one day, we— we— we fasted twice, we didn’t get started, we told them we’re going to, but fuck ‘em, we thought we’d eat, we— at least we’re going to die well, we’re going to eat well while we (voice trails off). We’re told them we’re fasting, and we said we wasn’t going to produce a goddamn crop and we’re going to tear up all the fields and burn down the houses. (Pause) Now that’s what we tell them. That’s the way we talk to them. These intellectuals with their Ph.D.’s, and all their degrees, they don’t understand it when you’re talking nice to them. But when you talk about burning all the houses down and tearing up the ground and raising hell and uh, shooting off firecrackers (short laugh), they understand that. (Pause) So there it is— don’t feel insecure about this. Some of you, oh my God, what’s going to happen, all this kind of shit and threatening, honey this is a mild night. You’re in a mild night.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

Jones: You might even get— You might even get to see the late night show before it’s over with. This is a mild night. Go ahead. It’s moving much faster than usual. (Pause) Hmm? (Pause) Marceline was chased all over the United States one time while she was there and I was here, we were committed that much to dying separately if necessary. She was running all over to get hold of the deputy prime minister [Ptolemy Reid] and tell him, by God, we wanted this sonofabitch throwed out that was running the government while he was up there signing the Panamanian Treaty. We wanted the sumbitch run— throwed out or we’d died by a five o’clock that night, that was two nights on five o’clock. (Pause) We like five o’clock for some reason, I don’t know why. (Pause) Just gives us time to have dinner.


Long pause.

Moore: Father— (Pause)

Jones: What’d you want to say?

Moore: Dad, I want you to forgive me. I wouldn’t never do nothing like that no more.

Jones: What did you do wrong?

Moore: Well, I (Pause) I went against the— went against the cause. (Pause)

Jones: In what way?

Moore: By not uh, obeying you and your instructions—

Jones: What were my instructions—

Moore: What she said not to do.

Jones: About— (tape fades out)

Tape originally posted March 1999