Q1019 Transcript

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(Note: This tape was transcribed by Nicole Bissett. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)

Jones: (Tape starts in middle of sentence) –You sit back there and you say (exhalation) show me another miracle. (exhalation) Show me another healing. (exhalation) But you never get the teachings. You’re just like a little bird in a nest. You got your mouth open, you want a fish worm all the time, but you never want to get your own wings out and help me get some of the fish worms.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: You want to sit in the nest from now on. You want to sit there and open your beak for me to put a fish worm in, and some of you’ll be sitting here for 50 years if I’d let you, and you’d never use your wings. You’d let me work my wings and my tail and my head off. I coulda said worse, but I didn’t.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: You’ll let me work myself to death, tryin’ to get the worms and you’ll sit here, doing nothing. Run out of this place– Every night I want to take care– I see that every one of our people at the close of a meeting has a ride home. And I know some of those people are selfish, perhaps, but some of the people that’s got cars are selfish too. And I’d think you that have a– a little money oughta offer some money, but I think it’s also a crime that– when somebody asks five dollars to take somebody home. (Pause) Did ya hear what I said?

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: I think it’s a first-class crime when you can’t give any more than you do, when– then– then– when I’m giving my all– you could surely take a little space. And I think it’s also a crime when someone asks someone to go out of their way – unless you’re on pension and poor, and then you have to promise to help later – I think it’s a crime when you can ride in a person’s car and get out of that car, and never say, “Is there anything I can do to help with the gasoline?”

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: You understand what I’m saying. But I know some of the people that get in this line, they’re on miserable pensions. They’ve been cut back till they can hardly make ends meet. So please, please, show a little mercy. But there are those that would set here forever, and let me do the fishing, and let me do going– let me get the worms, let me to grub for the feed, and they’ll just sit there, with their mouth open. How much more I could make this a beautiful place, if I’d get some more to help me. But when I have a business meeting, there’ll be 65, a hundred people., when I get a uh, organizational meeting, people don’t want to stay, they don’t even want to stay all night with me. (Pause) No, they like God only when he’s here– not too much. They don’t want God to be here too much, they don’t want him to bother them too much, they don’t want him to interfere with their affairs (slows for emphasis) too much.

(Calls out) But what I cannot understand, my friends, is, how you can look at this universe. It– (claps hands once) I know how you do it. You look without feeling. You look like a dummy, that’s how you look. You look out on this universe as a dummy. This world is filled with misery. (Tone moderates) People up– come up and down the street, some dear woman on the street today, when I was taking a walk, somebody’d robbed her of her money. Not one of our people, but somebody robbed her of her money. Took everything she had. Well, we didn’t leave her without comfort. We gave her some help. (Voice climbs throughout) But, my God, the– up and down the streets, people stabbed and knifed, little children, the funeral before ours, the one we helped with the sister yesterday, a funeral, a youngster killed, gang warfare so bad that the funeral parlors have to arm their funeral parlors, they have to secure them, because they come in and dump the people right out of the casket, they’ll rob them and take the body out and cut the body up even after they’re dead, there’s gang land all over this country!

Congregation: (Murmurs)

Jones: It’s not safe to walk in the streets. And the law, the law will turn its head the other way, as long as one black is killing another black, they’ll not say a damn thing.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: (Calms, then rises throughout) They’ll not say one thing. But you let me tell you, if you go up– if a black man were seen in Beverly Hills that even patted a little white girl on the shoulder, they’d put him away for the rest of his life.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: One of our black women was traveling in a suburb because we have good association with the police here locally, that’s why we worked every fourth uh, Thursday to try to build good relations, to show that we’re human so that we can humanize police and they can see that we’re humanized. And I tell you, one of our sisters was driving around in a section that was all black, and two white policemen came up to her and stopped her, just because she was black. Just because she had some things in her car. Sister Bell, well-dressed woman. Well-dressed, one of our ushers, well-dressed, comfortable, kindly woman, but just because she’s black– They wouldna stopped a middle class white woman, and asked her what was in her car. They’da never bothered her! They’da let her go on her way! She’da never been bothered!

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: (Quiet, then climbs) What I wonder is, why you haven’t asked some questions. You say the devil caused all this mess. The devil creates all these problems. The devil causes sickness, the devil causes disease, the devil causes race problems. Who made the devil?

Congregation: Right.

Jones: And I want you to think– You say I don’t wanna think. I know you don’t want, and that’s why the white man’s got you right by the nap [nape] of your neck. You won’t think. And the reason you won’t think is because he’s given you religion. From the time that King James, the one that wrote this Bible– how I disgustingly hate this man. I just cannot stand him, because he sent the Good Ship Jesus to Africa and brought our people back in slave chains. This man– this man that you revere, and you’ve got him under your shoulder, some of you come in here with him like he was God. You hold him precious, he’s so sweet, you just hold him up next to you.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: This– (short laugh)

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: This– (Pause) (Voice rises throughout) This man that wrote this book sent the first slave ship to Africa, and brought our people back – my people, your people – in chains. Brought them back on the Good Ship Jesus telling them that they were gonna get an education. He was an alcoholic! He was a sexual pervert! He molested children and men in his court, he was an evil man, and he– Everything, all of our trouble comes out of this. (Pats book) That’s why the white man’ll own all the radio broadcasts now. We are chosen. We’re the white people, we’re the special people. We’re the lost tribes. (Pause) Why they get this because of slave curse, that slaves should obey their masters. They’re preaching it on the radio, if you got the– get the wax out of your ears. They’re preaching it again, that the slaves should’ve never broken their chains, because the Bible said “Slave, obey your master.”

Congregation: (Murmurs)

Jones: And the Bible does say it. And the Bible put it there, so you and I, the special people, the most enduring people, the most beautiful people, we would listen to their lie, and we would say, it’s all right, the Bible says it, God says it, so we’ll stay in our misery, we’ll stay in our slavery, we’ll stay in our sin and our sickness, we’ll do nothin’ about it.

Congregation: (Murmurs)

Jones: God, how dumb we are, how dumb we are.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: (Clears throat) And I– Now, if I took a question and answer period after this meeting – which I don’t intend to – ninety percent of the people here wouldn’t know what I’m talkin’ bout. They don’t get it. Say, today you’re leaning to the right. I’m leaning to the right ‘cause there’s some good people over there that can change the world. Tomorrow may be leaning to the left to the sinner. I’m tryin’ to fish for somebody I want you to get it, ‘cause you’re a good soul and you got a whole lot of mess in your head. (Pause) (Calls out) Come on now, wake up!

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: (Calls out) In Africa– In Africa our people didn’t worship anything but the great sun, the great spirit of nature, and they would– they build uh, great kingdoms– great royal kingdoms. (conversational) The fact the forerunners of our people here, all of our ancestors were from the best of the tribes. Royalty, they picked only the best. You’ve got the best ancestry in the world. You’re not– you’re not niggardly, you’re not low, you are the– you are the special people. You came from people of the greatest background in Africa. They didn’t take any little old pipsqueaks, they picked the kings and the queens and the princes and the princesses. That’s who they wanted for their slaves. They wanted the smartest and the strongest and the most beautiful. So your ancestors are the most beautiful people on the earth. But they took us and set us down in some damn Baptist church, and told us that we didn’t have no sense.

Congregation: (Applause) (Pause)

Jones: A microphone so I can hold it, honey. (Pause) All right, I’m getting uh– difficult about these microphones ‘cause I’ve had so much problems with them. (Pause)

(Quiet) I’m begging you to try to understand me. Your letters, most of them underst– uh, understand– I– I appreciate every one of you, and I’ll die– I’ll die for each of you. I’ll give my life for each of you. But I wish uh, s– some of you would try to grow up, and take the meat, and quit drain– drin– drink on the milk of the Word. I wish some of you’d be willing to get out of the nest now, and try to use your wings instead of just holding your mouth open for me to feed you all the time. I wish some of you’d get out there and think like I do and work like I do, because then you’ll be free, and I want you to be free more than anything in the world. (Pause) Why is it that we can buy this stuff? How is it that in here, we sit, and I’ve got hundreds and thousands of people who won’t come near me because they’re Baptist. Said, I’ve been a Baptist all my life. My mother was a Baptist, my granddaddy was a Baptist.

Congregation: (Murmurs)

Jones: We had a sister McFarland who was 50 years of age – they can tell you about it – she came in, she says, I’m not gonna change my Baptist faith. She said, Jim Jones not gonna change me. I was a Baptist and my mother was a Baptist and my grandma was a Baptist, she said, I’ve lived a Baptist for 49 years, and I’m gonna die a Baptist. And I said, the woman needs to be with me – you know who I’m talkin’ ‘bout, Suzy McFarland. I said she needs to get out of that mess. The only way she’s gonna live is for her to get out of that mess, because this is a way to life, this is a way to overcome fear, that old religion of hell, fire and brimstone causes you to be sick, that religion of pearly gates and that nonsense, it’s a bunch of boo-boo, you need to get rid of it, it’s all foolishness, and I wanted her to get out of it, but she said, I gonna lived a Baptist for 49 years and I’m gonna die a Baptist. She did. Two-and-a-half weeks later, she died a Baptist.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: (Ministerial fervor) Now what was that to be proud of? She was sick, and I could’ve healed her, (claps hands once) I coulda brought her out of her trouble, I’ve taken many a case like hers, and I saved her– Once she died, I went to her and brought her back. But by God, she had to go back to that slop!

Congregation: (Calls)

Jones: She had to go back to that slop. She said, why are you so hard on Baptists? (Low, intense) Because, my proud brothers and sisters, my black mothers, my black grandfathers, were brought here with their chins high, taken off of the boat, and the moment they got off the boat – the moment they got off the boat, the moment they got off the boat – the chains were put on them– on them. And they were led– The first thing they did with that bunch, the first thing they did, before they fed them, if you know anything about the first settlements, they took them, and they set them down in barns, and taught them religion, before they even gave them food, then they decided they’d have to give them some rice, and some food, and they gave them any old concoction they could give them, because they knew they couldn’t stay awake, to hear their religion. But at first they sit them down, and taught them their Baptist religion. That’s why I hate Baptist religion, because a white man created it, that’s why!

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: I hate it because– and when are we gonna get our pride? I know some of you are gonna leave on it. But also tell ‘em they won’t be able to get their– their healings when they need it. (Pause) Four little babies– Four little babies– blood pressure problems. Sister [Janet] Shular. You’re in the atmosphere– Her Baptist religion not that– worth that much to her to be paralyzed on her left side. I’m just talkin’ to somebody goin’ out the door, then you get a little upset ‘bout the fact that uh, I tell you the truth about the Baptist church. When our four babies in Birmingham, Alabama were in a Sunday school in a Baptist church mindin’ their own business–

Congregation: (Stirs)

Jones: Shhh– They were sitting there mindin’ their business, and some white Baptist elders, and the preacher came over from the white Baptist church, and– don’t tell me, I know they had the record, and they didn’t even indict one of them, they didn’t arrest one of them, but everybody in the whole town knew who did it, they came over, closed their Sunday school and came over and blew those babies to hell in that place. That’s what created Angela Davis, that’s why she turned her back on the church and wanted no more to do with it, because those were her own childhood friends, and they blew those babies out, white Baptists did this. How much longer? Haven’t we taken enough of their crap? Why do we have to take their name? (Cries out) Why do we have to take their name?

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: I’d like to get to a place where I did not use any of those names. People say here, in the name of Jesus, in the name of this, and in the name of the Christian church, I’d like to get the place where this is just the Jim Jones family.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: And if you think that gives too much attention to one person, then let’s just call it the people’s family.

Congregation: (Stirs)

Jones: (Ministerial fervor) The family of the people, power to the people, the people that’ve got themselves together, the people that’re working together, the people that’re sharing together. Why don’t you talk about the people?

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: And that’s one thing that doesn’t belong to the honky. The honky doesn’t own the people. (Cries out) He doesn’t own all the people. He hasn’t got our soul yet. He may have our head, but he hasn’t got our soul!

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: Now if I would just heal the sick, as I will in a little bit, and wouldn’t say any of these things, this place would be packed from stem to stern. I could have what Kathryn Kuhlman has, good old Kathryn Kuhlman, who never would stand up. She came to my meetings and never would stand up for black, n– criticize me for adopting a black child, would never take the ca– the p– Yeah, I know some of you are Kathryn Kuhlmanites, but I got less respect for her than I do Ike [Reverend Ike (Frederick J. Eikerenkoetter II)].

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: (Voice rises throughout) I’ll tell you, yes, it’s true! And I’ll tell ya from the depths of my soul, any time a honky skirts around like they do in play church, and just heal the sick and they won’t tell the people the truth, won’t do anything to give them homes, come in here, there’s nothin’ bein’ done by these people! They come in here and take the money, there’s no homes, there’s no children homes. I’ve got acres up there, never one of you here will have to starve. We’ve got food growing, we’ve got pears, we got strawberries, we got greens, we got potatoes, that’s all growin’. These people come in here and take over a Shrine auditorium, and pay five thousand dollars for a meeting, and run out of here and live in a mansion, and you don’t see a dime of it. You think I’m not gonna preach against those renegade devils. Yes I am!

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: (Quiet) Said she healed the sick. She healed the sick. Okay. I’ll put ten healings up for every one she does. But that isn’t the point. Do you follow me because I heal people? Say, yeah, some of you do. You don’t stand up here because I got an eleven-year-old son [Jim Jones Jr.] that got up there and spoke his heart when he was dead, I healed him. When he was just this very week, somebody was about to hit him with a car, and I stood up – and all the people there can testify – I stood up and put up my hand and the car stopped. Eleven years of age, when he was– when he was six, they said he would never speak, never speak clearly because he had an impediment. Here at eleven years of age, he’s speaking out, pretty clearly, I’d say.

Congregation: (Stirs, scattered applause)

Jones: Eight babies that were starvin’ to death until I fed them and adopted them, and then you listen to these shysters come through and say (mocking tone) now, the Lord bless you, the Lord loves you! Hello, friends! (Normal voice) Listen, I knew her when she was as phony as a three-cent piece, and she’s just still as phony as a three-cent piece, and I’ve got no faith in her, because I know her from Pittsburgh to Indiana, I know her in Ohio, I know her in Columbus, I knew that woman, I knew her when she was– as old nearly she– as some of you are now and she’s still a (mocking tone) young woman.

Congregation: (Stirs)

Jones: Every time they come on the air, Kathryn Kuhlman, this young woman– well, the old girl’s every bit of 60. If you call that young, I don’t know. I’m glad for her to think young, but she looks much older than 60 when I look at her, and she’s a young woman.

Congregation: (Stirs)

Jones: Now honey, I know I’m not a young man, and I’ve got some years under her. But you don’t hear me goin’ around talkin’ ‘bout this young man. Arturo Skinner gets on, he’s sixty-some years of age, the young man God raised up. Honey, you’re not– no, now, that’s beautiful, but don’t lie to people. It’s all right to think young, and you can be as young as you want to think, but don’t get up and lie to people and tell ‘em that you’re young when you’re 60. You know you’ve lived a long time when you lived 60 years.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: I’ll tell you what I got against her. The racist pastor in our city of Ukiah, Dr. Jones, supports her, the pastor in Eureka supports her, all of her pray– her leading prayer supporters have been people that have openly– some of their people have come out of their churches and tried to bomb ours. That’s what I got against that woman. She won’t stand– (tape edit) (mocking) The Lord cares, and the Lord is coming soon, and I’d tell her– Aww.

Congregation: (Scattered stirring)

Jones: (Conversational) I will– I will change after this sermon for– sometimes I won’t– I won’t– I– you won’t hear me goin’ on this point so much longer. (Pause) I– I– I don’t know. I really don’t know how you can look at religion, and not wish to get free of it. (Pause) Or you listen to your radio stations, you listen to your Bible stations, and you hear their subtle little hate every day. They’re preaching– They’ll say law and order. Too much crime in the streets. You know who they’re after, don’t ya, honey?

Congregation: Yeah.

Jones: All that stuff about law and order, you better read that thing on the back wall there about the way– Adolf Hitler used that, that’s the way he got the Ja– the Jews and the Orientals and the black[s] all put in concentration camp[s]. That law and order business, that’s a stacked case. They mean law and order for poor blacks, poor whites, poor brown, but they don’t mean no law and order for those gangsters that’s runnin’ these countries– these towns.

Congregation: (Light applause)

(Microphone noise)

Jones: That’s why I’ve come along. Do you know, that I’ve run into cases here, they treat him like the devil, one of our brothers, Brother Kerry beat up on him, kicked him in, till I get in the case– I get in the case and they know we represent numbers. They don’t care about us. They just as soon spit on the likes of me. They’d like to cut my throat. They look at us and they seethe. But they know there’s a whole lot of us, and they know that when votin’ time comes, we’re gonna put our vote where the right place should be, we’re gonna vote for people that at least show a little more care than the others, ya haven’t got much of a choice left, but we’re gonna show that our vote counts and we’re gonna show our numbers. And when I walked in, this young brother, our– our attorneys walked into the case, (Pause) when we walked into the case, they dropped the charges. How many times that is, when we get into it, they’ll drop the charges. Kick ‘em and beat ‘em and I’ll walk in and they’ll drop the charges. I said they drop the charges. they drop the charges. (Microphone noise) (Talks to microphone) Straighten up, damn ya.

Congregation: (Light applause)

Jones: It’s bad enough to have all the honkies fightin’ me out here without this thing fightin’ with me too.

Congregation: (Stirs)

Jones: (Calls out) I’m saying to you folk, before I came, you didn’t have a chance of getting out of hell. You didn’t get a chance to gettin’ out of your jail. You didn’t have a chance– They beat your brains out here, we saw that mess out here, beatin’ people around when I raised that woman from the dead, the ambulance man callin’ her nigger, and kickin’ her in, kickin’ her right in the ambulance, (voice drops) and there wasn’t a thing done to stop it, until we got our numbers together. (Pause) Till we got our numbers together.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: (Conversational) And we showed that we’re trying to build a kindly, peaceful society, and we’ve shown our love to the– the police district commander here, and working as well as we can to show that we want goodwill, but showing also that we’re gonna stand by each other through thick, thin, hell or high water.

Congregation: (Applause)

(Microphone noise)

Jones: It’s comin’ out. I ain’t– I never saw anything like this place. This is somethin’ else. I’ve raised the dead, and I’ve gone and walked on the water, and I’ve stopped the rain and stopped the sun, but I have never seen anything like this microphone problem in my born days. Anyway– Now, anyway, why don’t you ask questions, is what I’m concerned about. Why don’t you ask questions? Why do you have trouble s– worshiping something you see? Ol’ Flip Wilson tried to say it, and then they put pressure on him ‘cause he made fun of all those preachers. He made so much fun of ‘em, he was just gettin’ it right across, and then they made him stop that religious skit, you know. He stopped it. Oh, the preachers raised– Jet Magazine told about it, how they were raisin’ Cain, preachers signed petitions, the jackleg preachers up and down the country, white and black were tellin’ him no more of that. Well, he preachin’ bout the Cadillac, he’s dancin’ around in his black robe, tellin’ ‘em just about how it was, in his comedy way. (Imitating tone) What you see is what you get.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: (Calm) Beloved, what you see is all that you’re gonna get. Ya don’t get what ya don’t see. When ya look across this world– the president of the United States [Richard Nixon] said two out of three babies are going to bed hungry. Look at the TV and see their scrawny little faces, their sunken eyes. Look at you. I’m tryin’ to help you, but a lot of people won’t let me help you. That’s why I have to preach this long. If it’ll all get you understanding, we could quit this. But right now, if I’d ask questions, some people wouldn’t even know what I’ve spoken about. Said, I’d like to get down just to serving you and quit having to go through all this. I’d like to put it in writing. If I did, they’d come and burn this church down. Some of you wouldn’t read it anyway, but some would. And I wish I could put it in writing, but when you put something in writing– That’s why, in the first body, he didn’t write but only in the sand. He knew what you write, they can use against you. If you get it in your head– Nobody can use what you got in your head, can they? But when you write it, they can use it against you.

Congregation: (Light applause)

Jones: And I love you too much to give you any more trouble. You got enough trouble. That’s why you’ll notice this thing I’ve written, you find my name on it? You won’t find my name, you won’t find Peoples Temple, you won’t find a name on it, because this is dynamite. If people would get a hold of this, it would change the world. They’d get rid of religion, and get a new day of service and love to their fellow man. It would stop communism, they’re so afraid of it. It’d stop fascism, because it’s the pure sharing, the only pure sharing that comes is the brotherhood of man that we teach and practice. The purest kind of socialism.

Well, here we are, and how we have two out of three babies going to bed hungry, we have famine, earthquake, disease, we have poverty in ghettos, we have black people who don’t get a fair break from the time they’re born, we have white people who come in with a silver spoon in their mouth, except you precious white people who come in here and help us, you’re very beautiful, you’re very rare. There’re not many– not anyone like you. You’re very rare, but there’re not very many of you.

Congregation: (Light applause)

Jones: Let me tell you, I can out-heal any healer. I can out-heal. There’s no one that can cause growth to come right up, like the sister spit up the growth there, no doctor could help and she spit it up there earlier this– this week– this service. Spit it up. You never seen that done at any meeting. Never, never, never anywhere.

Congregation: (Light applause)

(Tape edit)

Jones: There’s a sister standing up there now. Now (Pause) if I would just heal, you’d have to get the Shrine auditorium for me too. But it’s because I teach freedom. I teach equality. I teach and practice justice. You’d have so many white people in here– If I wouldn’t talk about black people’s rights, they’d be in here, they’d be standing around the walls. I could have everything that Kathryn Kuhlman has, if I’d sell you out. But honey, I wouldn’t sell you out for 55,000 Shrine auditoriums.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: And– And I want you to know that they’re not going to stop the thing from happening that I know is gonna happen, unless we work together and we make this our God. We’ve got to make this our only God. This movement, or our family, the only God. We’ve got to make it it. Germany was the most Christian nation in Europe, and it murdered the Jews. They murdered the Jews. Now please listen to me. Bibles don’t make people nicer. The Union of the South Africa is a Bible-teaching nation, but the blacks cannot move out of their city block. They’ve got to have a pass. And at night, at six o’clock, (Flares) they’ve got to be (unintelligible word). But it’s a Bible-fearing nation. The crosses everywhere on every corner. Churches, churches everywhere. But Christian nations have been the most bloody, murderous nations in existence. They’ve killed the Indians like none other. My people were raped, my children, my sisters, my brothers, little babies, grandmothers, Wounded Knee, the Dakota incident, you name them. There’re too many to mention. Up through northern California, there’s little communities where Indians were drowned to the last baby, every last one of them gone. The tribes are gone, they’re lost, they’re dead, killed by Christian missionaries, Bible-totin’ missionaries, murdered under the guise of religion, tryin’ to convert them. General [George Armstrong] Custer, before he marched down and murdered our Indians, read out of the Bible and prayed.

Let’s know the facts, children, let’s know the facts. At least we may not avoid suffering, but we can know the facts. We have to get a change, we’ve got to find ourselves, we’ve got to get back to our inheritance, we’ve got to get back to our her– our first love, we’ve got to get rid of all this stuff they put in our heads. We were a special people. We had a beautiful history. Your history, black, my history, Indian, and– I have a mixture of it because I come from both of you. I’ve got a mixture of all the beautiful histories.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: And you that are white, you– you’ve made a history for yourself, you’re the bravest of all. You’ve been willing to give up your special privilege and come in here, so you don’t need to feel down in the mouth. You that really are one with us, you are the most beautiful of all, because you’ve taken uh, a highway of suffering, when you could’ve g– lost yourself in the beauty, so-called beauty of hypocrisy and sin and sellout, you could’ve lost yourself by just selling out. So we love you. And I know how hard it is, because some of the whites say to me, what’s my heritage? Well, your heritage is not theirs, you’ve become a part of us, and you’re more a part of us than some of these Uncle Toms and Aunt Janes. You’re a part of us!

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: I notice some of our white people wear black, and they try to dress in black, and I think that’s beautiful. You can dress as black as you want to, and dye your hair black if you want to, do whatever you want to, you be as black as you want to be, because you’re entitled to be black, you took this upon yourself, you took it, you willingly identified with us, you became a part of us, so be what you want to be.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: It isn’t your skin though, or your hair that’s not lovely. Everybody’s beautiful. Black, brown, red, yellow, everyone’s precious, every color’s precious, it’s what people do that make them ugly.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: We’re not against white, we’re against honky, that’s what we’re against. We’re against those that sell out people, those that cruelly misuse people, that’s what we’re against. Not blond and blue eyes, we’re against– not red hair or white skin, we’re against a system, that would (Calms) cruelly misuse and abuse 20 percent of the population. (Pause) But I hope that you know that we’ve got to get rid of all the remnants of the old stuff. We gotta get rid of it. (Emphatic) We must get rid of it. Someone was saying here, Mother Grace got up and said, the name now’s Jim Jones. Well, whatever, if you can’t use the name Jim Jones, then use the name of people. Because this is the people’s mission, this is the people’s day. This is a mission of the people. And let’s not go back and use any of those old words, like Lord. Lord means owner of slaves. Let’s not use any of those old words, let’s not talk about those old concepts, let’s let those things be behind us, forget those things which are behind, let us press on to the mark, of the prize of freedom, the high calling of freedom and justice, (Calls out) let’s press on to it!

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: (Calms) My case has rested on your Bible that can not tell the truth from one page to the next. And this you could only know by reading here. I show you all the lies that are now in the Bible. It’s right here. All you have to read or see. I rest my case in saying that, as much as you look at the universe, no matter what you want to think about the universe, you’re gonna come out with pain. Pain. Because when you trace this all back, take us back to the beginning, and you say there was a God in the beginning, you’re gonna ask, why did he have pain? Why did he have suffering? Why did he allow cruelty to come about? Why did he allow a devil to be made? That you’re gonna ask. And you say, I don’t ask such questions. Then you’re dumb. Anybody that don’t ask questions is dumb. And there’s no use for you to stay dumb. You should ask questions about anything and everything. Anyone that doesn’t ask the question– Billy Graham gets on and said– the other day on TV, few weeks ago he said– Someone asked him a question on TV, I think it was on the Paar show [Jack Paar, host of The Tonight Show], he said– Someone called in and said, “Well, why did God make man in the first place, or let the devil be made?” He said, you know, I don’t have the answer to that, I have to take it by faith. That’s what Billy Graham said. (Soft laugh) Not me. What I see is what I get, and what I can’t see, I don’t want.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: I take nothin’ by faith. If I’m kind, I want you to believe in me. If you can find somebody kinder, I want you to go today. And you let me know where they are, ‘cause I’m tired of workin’ and I’ll go and join them too, ‘cause I’d like to help them.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: If you can find anyone kinder that’ll adopt more babies, that’ll take in more older people, that’ll do more, because I– some of these older people I’m looking at, I’ve gone into their bowels when they came to me, and broke up their impactions, broke up– You didn’t need to raise your hand, honey, because you’re not the only one. But that’s sweet of you. Broke up impactions, with my own fingers and healed their body, bathed their wounds, brought them back after 27 years. I’m tired. I’m tired, but there’s nobody else that’ll do this. I’ve done this work. And if you can find anybody kinder today, I say go. If you can find somebody nicer, somebody braver that’ll fight for you, go. If you can’t, then you better stay with me. And I know you can’t. And I’m sorry you can’t, you’ll not find anybody like me, there’s not a man in this world like Jim Jones, so you’ll have to stand with him.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: But if ya could, ya should. I don’t stand up here and say, take me by faith. Stand up here with la– with diamond pens. I don’t know how these preachers look at their people. Stand up with diamonds on and Rolls Royce’s out there, never adopted any baby, livin’ away out in the suburbs while you live in some bad neighborhood, where you don’t have good conditions, and they’ll say, (mocking preacher tone) “You gotta trust me. You gotta trust God. God sent me. You gotta believe God sent me.” (Excited, but normal voice) Why should I have to believe God sent some big old fat ass, that never did anything for me? Why?

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: I’ll trust you if you’ll act trustworthy. I’ll– I– I’ll trust you if you act honest. I’ll believe in you if you act loving. But just because somebody puts on a robe, and wears a Bible, and puts a cross on his neck. (Voice drops) The fact of the matter, that’s the one way to get me to least trust you. ‘Cause I never had a whore do me wrong. I never had a pimp to do me in. I’ve never had a gamblin’ man try to hurt me. And the time when they came to our church, was gonna blow it up, the church that was involved with Kathryn Kuhlman’s campaign, every day, they were the ones who were gonna blow our church up, and the tavern man, the man got drunk, he says, you know that old woman of mine. He said, that old woman, that damned old church, she gonna hurt those Jones people again. Said, they’re mean people. Said, they over there supposed to be the servant of God, and all they’re doin’ is cookin’ up somethin’ to do to Jones. The tavern man says, what they getting ready to do? Said, on Halloween night they’re gonna do so and so. He gets on the phone, the tavern man, meanest man in Redwood Valley–

Voice in Congregation: (Laughs)

Jones: (speaks quickly) Supposed to be the meanest man. He don’t believe in God. Said I don’t believe in nothin’. Don’t believe nothin’. Said, this goddamn mean world, don’t believe in nothin’ but you. That’s what he told me. Said, I believe you’re a good man. Said, I don’t believe you’re no God. Said I don’t believe in no God. Said, I just believe you’re a good man, and you take care of your people, and he said, them damn people are gettin’ ready to hurt you – I’m just almost tellin’ you word for word what he said – he said, them damn people getting ready to blow you up, and I want you to know, you don’t trust that sonofabitchin’ church, you better be on, uh– be ready for ‘em on Halloween night.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: We caught ‘em. I mean, he cussed, he cussed as mean. He said, I don’t believe in nothin’ in this world, everybody’s mean, everybody out to get everybody else, there’s no God, ‘cause he wouldna made no mess like this. He said I got more sense then to make a mess like this. He said I wouldn’t even have no children in this world, such a mean world, then God’s supposed to have children because he was lonely? That’s what Billy Graham said, and that’s what all your churches say, God had children, ‘cause he was lonely. He made you ‘cause he wants somebody to sing (Sings) “Hallelujah, hallelujah, we praise you, we love you.” (Speaks) You think I’m gonna fall over, honey, I’m not gonna fall over, I’m gonna be around for a while. (Laughs dramatically)

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: (Normal tone) Now finally, finally they’re gonna want me out of the way, because you see, I’m gone get you  free. Won’t be just nigger Jim that’s free, it’ll be all the rest of you. And they’re not gonna like that. Then they gonna lie in their newspapers and their radio, and they’re gonna try to divide this house. It’ll– It’ll shake, it’ll shake this house, but if you stand, you can go through it. You can go through anything, if we stand together. They can’t get us if we stand together. No way they can get to us, if we stand together.

Congregation: (Stirs)

Jones: No, I’ve never had a gamblin’ man, nor a pimp, and I’ve never had a whoremonger nor a whore ever do me any wrong, but I have never been able to trust a preacher further than I could throw him–

Congregation: (Stirs)

Jones: Never. I’m gonna tell you the– the– the truth. The other day I thought, the white man’s tryin’ to divide again – I’m talking not– not you that are white, you are black, everybody in this room’s black – but the, uh, the man tryin’ to divide us so badly, so– Macedonia church, Macedonia, the man [George Bedford], the head, the Baptist man’s head of the federation of the Baptist – I thought, well, I’m gonna try to make up with the man. I don’t like him, but I’m gonna try to make up with him, ‘cause– ‘cause, after all, he was a– he’s a rascal. He took two of my children that were minors and tried to get them in bed.

Congregation: (Quietly affirms)

Jones: It’s what he did. And– but– but he acted through the years – that’s been some years ago, it was Janet Phillips and Bonnie Beck – and he acted uh, like he was tryin’ to learn some sense, and he was helping prisoners get rehabilitated. So I thought, well, I’ll uh, I’ll try to give some help, so I called up and we offered some money for prisoners, and gave five– we raised 500 dollars to help prisoners get their way, find their way.

Now what did he do, ly– just– just typical lyin’ preachers. And he’s the head one. Old Dr. George, what’d he do, but get up and show that check, ‘cause he knew what he’d done with those girls. And he waved that check and he said, “Here’s the check from Jones. He’s tryin’ to keep the– me from suin’ him, so he sent us 500 dollars check.” And the prisoners were supposed to get that check. He wasn’t even supposed to get the check, and some of his members – he don’t know I got some of his members don’t like him – and they called up and says, “He’s wavin’ a check around there. That check you supposed to give to the prisoners, he’s got that check and he’s wavin’ it around the pulpit.” I called up and I said, George Bedford, you get that check into those prisoners, ‘cause that check don’t belong to you. He said, “Well, I did.” I said, “Don’t tell me you did, ‘cause I know what you been doin’ with the check.” I said, “Get that check to them, now.” (Pause) And then they got the check the next morning.

Now I want you to hear this – now you just listen to this – what a liar that was. You see, the reason I’m sayin’ again what he did, if I’m tryin’ to keep him from suin’, I’m still sayin’ he’s an old, lecherous, whore-mongerin’ bastard.

Congregation: (Laughter, applause)

Jones: He told it up and down, the reason I’m saying– I’m only saying it because he said I was tryin’ to keep him from suin’ me. I want you to know, I wouldn’t try to keep any old devil like that, so if I’m tryin’ to keep him from suin’ me, why am I still sayin’ it?

Congregation: (Stirs)

Jones: Five hundred dollars? That wouldn’t keep me– Oh, you know that old rascal. If he had a case against me, he could sue our church. But he knows he can’t, ‘cause we’ve got witnesses. He tried to get those girls in the bed. He– we’ve got witnesses, and he knows he wouldn’t dare get in the court, he wouldn’t dare face the court, so for three or four years, I’ve been sayin’ he’s an old, lecherous whore-mongerin’ bastard, and there nothin’ he can do about it.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: (Chuckles)

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: You say, what are ya talkin’ so funny today, Father? I got– I got some folk here, they don’t know whether they’re comin’ or goin’.

Congregation: (Laughter and scattered applause)

Jones: Say, I want ya to get on with the healings, they might stay. Yes they might. Another one to be with their mouth open, go, “Feed me, Father, Feed me, Father.” I don’t want nobody else to sit here and say, feed me, Father. I can show you healings that’ll cause your hair to stand on end, but I’m not interested in showing you no healings. I want some of you people to get your mind open. If you want to come in here and help us work for freedom and justice, fine. But I want you to know the score. The worst enemies we got are preachers. The worst enemies we’ve got is religion and its churches. That’s the worst. I’m sorry to tell you the fact, we’ve got a few preachers that are different than that, but they’ve come out. I guess we got a few preachers in here, one been healed of cancer, I see him settin’ back there, I believe in him, but I don’t believe in very many of ‘em. He’s not a Baptist now, either, he’s certainly– this– this Brother Hill, he never was a Baptist. So uh– I believe–

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: He passed a cancer right here in our– in our meeting before our eyes, and I says, guess this– how many preachers are in the house? How many preachers in the house? (unintelligible word) A lot– One of ‘em lyin’, he sittin’ back there, I look at ya, I know you’re a preacher, come on now, honey.

Congregation: (Laughter)

Jones: Got any preacher over there? Ya got any preacher over there? No preacher over there. Hey, you people, you say you don’t lie? You lie, you lie, you lie.

Congregation: (Laughter and applause)

Jones: (Chuckles). Well, Brother Hill, you and I are the only preachers in here, they won’t– we’re the only ones acknowledging it. We’re the only one that gonna confess this.

Congregation: (Responds)

Jones: It’s a big job tryin’ to keep the house, and so I’ve gotten some of you mad, so you won’t come back. ‘Cause I got too big a house to take care of people that wanna not face truth. And some of you don’t want to face truth. You want to sing and be blind, and pray and be blind and be dumb. I don’t need any more dummies, I got enough dummies, so we need some people now to start thinkin’.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: Say, I never question, God’s been so good to me. Well, if he had – and I doubt that, I doubt if there’ve been all the cases where you’ve never suffered, I spec– suspect you’ve lost some children or some sisters or brothers, or you lost a wife or a husband, or you lost a mother or a father too young, that died before their time, that they work too hard, I’m sure that every one of you got a case like that, I’m sure you got some cases that you can make in the court as to why God, the Sky God, should be on trial, I’m sure some of you could indict the Sky God, everyone here’s got a case against the Sky God, if you’re honest enough to say it, but most of you not honest enough to tell it.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: You won’t admit the fact. You know you’ve seen people, like the g– governor that don’t pay any taxes, and he gets everything comin’ his way just because he happens to be the right color and knows the right people, and d– deals in the crooked game of politics, and you’ve suffered all your day, and you’ve worked hard, and had to hold two jobs, some of you’ve had to hold two jobs to make ends meet– you tell me you don’t have somebody to blame. You say, well, that’s not God’s fault. Who made you? You said he made you. You said he can see all, he knows all, he does all. If he can do all this stuff, well, why don’t he look after you all the time?

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: Makes no difference to me. And the– the Christian church don’t like it, it they can lump it, ‘cause we just assume be atheists, you hear me? (Clicks tongue)

Congregation: (Scattered applause)

Jones: I’m not gonna settle, br– br– bridle my thoughts for anybody. I’m not here– if you don’t like our money, then you can go and run with it ‘cause uh, I’m not interested in it, I’m tired of your foolishness, ya won’t do anything, you got just a few leaders that’ll do something about Vietnam, or racism, ya just build big churches, so I don’t care if you don’t like us, we don’t need you, we can get along without you too.

Congregation: (Applause)

(Long pause) (tape edit)

Jones: Uh– Shh– I’m tired of it, tired of the whole damn mess, that’s what I’m tired of.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: I’m gonna come out there and see some of– somebody in here spyin’ out my liberty. I’m gonna take a look at ‘em, and go by and go, one two three whammy.

Congregation: (Responds) (Microphone noise)

Jones: (Wanders through congregation) It’s all right. I wanna see who’s in this house today. I don’t have much– any volume here enough to suit me. I wanna see who’s in this house today.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: Shake it, sha– shake my arm. If I shook your hand, then I’d have to shake everyone’s hand, and I won’t do that so you shake if you choose. Because I– I don’t shake– if I can’t shake one, I won’t shake any. And I can– I– that’s all right, that’s all you want. I’m just like you. My– my– my bein’ comes from the same place yours does.

Congregation: (Scattered applause)

Jones: (Unintelligible aside) (Normal tone) I’m just wanderin’ round here, findin’ out who’s around. (Long pause) How are you doin’?

Man: Fine.

Jones: I’m doin’ fine. You sure you’re doin’ fine? Good. (Long pause) Hi. I just wanted to see who slipped in. (Long pause) Hi, my (unintelligible word). I love ya. You don’t know what a (same word) is, they do. (Pause) Well, I found out what I was lookin’ for, and I neutralized it.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: It’s all right. See, you gotta neutralize some folk that are up to stuff. They don’t– they don’t behave decently because they– they’re nice p– uh, people. If they did, nobody’d ever do any harm to me. And really, I don’t care what they do to me, it’s only what they do to you. They wouldn’t never do anything that way, if they uh, were nice, but you know what people have to be reminded of is my power, and you can feel it if you’re around me when you’re not doin’ right. It makes ya feel nervous. It makes ya feel real nervous. Gets people awful edgy. When you’re not doin’ right, you don’t do too well standin’ by me. If you’re doin’– if you’re doin’ right, like this sister, she’s in good shape.

Congregation: (Responds)

Woman: Thank you, Father. (Laughs)

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: But when– but when– ya see, that’s all– you say, what am I doin’? I’m not– I’m not down here clownin’ with anybody, I’m just doin’ my walkin’, I’m just doin’ my walkin’. Because when I walk by ya, and you’re not doin’ what you ought to, all I have to do is just take an inventory.

Congregation: (Scattered voices)

Jones: I take an inventory and I just stand around, and all that you think you gonna do, I just turn it around. I– I know how to deal with boomerangs. I just turn all that stuff around that you’re gettin’ ready to send out to do to somebody else, or to hurt, and it goes right back in on you.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm [Yes]. (Pause) (tape edit) I’ve taken enough time– (Pause) It’s all right. (Pause) I’ve taken enough time. Now you shift yourself. (Pause) I’ve taken enough time. (Long pause) My mi– micropho– my pen– pen here, I don’t seem to have pens, I need to make notes. Thank you. Hands– Hands clasped. (Coughs, clears throat) Now what’s gonna happen here, today, depends on what you do. They’ve told me, long before I started preaching, I had to tell the truth anyway, no matter whether we took an offering or not, I had to take– tell the truth. Before I took this uh, sermon message to you, and I’ve spoken nothing but the truth, they told me how dreadful the offering was. Now– (tape edit) –made history all over this nation. I won’t die easy. They’ll have to kill me, and I mean, I– I’ll be a fierce one to die. And the torture of my death will be so wide-known that everybo– everybody’ll know about it. Because I’m gonna save you, or I’m gonna die tryin’. Did you hear what I said? I’m gonna save you, or I’m gonna die tryin’.

End of tape

Tape originally posted December 2009

Originally posted on June 16th, 2013.

Last modified on February 18th, 2016.
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