Q1053-4 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Jones: (Conversational)—carried it on further, but we would have antagonized him. He that winneth souls is wise. He was getting mad. So you don’t do that. You try to keep— These are days when America’s house is on fire, and we— uh— are in grave danger. Now we (stumbles over words) $300, we don’t like to sacrifice, but we— it’s a worthy investment, if we could do anything to stop what they’ve got in mind here in California, you give us a little bit more time to get ourselves together so we can get out of here, or get on our way— when the b— bomb falls, to get on our way to protection. Because they are now talking of experimentation. He kept saying UCLA. That’s University of California. They’ve already done lobotomies there on people who— really they’re not sure of the consent they got. He didn’t portray it half as bad as it is. They’re already doing chemicals— uh, chemical therapy, altering with drugs in the prisons. Senator Kennedy [Edward M. Kennedy (D-MA)] told us last week, they’re doing in the feeble-minded institutions, they’re doing it in the uh, mental institutions, they’re already doing this. It’s not a matter of what will happen— So if we can get this man some money, so he can try to influence some people to stop this— He’s quite sincere, but he’s a mistaken idealist. And mistaken idealist’s what— what causes the house of America to be in so much trouble. They want to talk in glorious, egotistical terms about what one can do as an individual. (Pause) You can do nothing. There no use to talk about trying to stop this altering of— of the mind with drugs, there’s no use to talk about brain surgery being stopped, until you get these fat capitalists off the scene, until the money-mongers are off the scene, there will always be this dealing with the minds— altering the human behavior, because what they want is every black person to go on as a slave. And they’re trying to give them passive drugs— passive uh, surgery that will dissect and— by incision, and by blo— uh, chemistry, uh, introduction of drugs to alter their behavior so that they will not question the dirty, stenching, smelling ghettoes that they’re living in, and they will not quarrel with the fact that they’re making half the wages of the white person, or they will not quarrel with the fact that they’re sent over to Vietnam to fight the rich man’s wars. They’re trying to get a whole breed of automatons of people that will move, as you— You heard him mentioning here. The doctor recommends that they put a monitoring device inside the brain, and from a central office, give them signals, or relay signals of what their behavior is. This is horrendous.

So I gave him this money, because it’s worthy. Not because I believe in him. I think he’s foolish in his philosophy. I think he’s a kindly doctor, certainly above the heap, but he doesn’t know where he’s going. But uh, we won’t get him where he’s going by b— bombarding him with an antagonistic way, uh, though I didn’t do anything to interrupt him. He shut me up. But you see, I turned around— and a soft answer turned away his wrath. I just let hi— I ate the— I ate the shit, and that’s the wisest thing to do, to gain someone to get— get a little bit of rapport and re-establish a thing, because he didn’t want to be put in a corner about socialism. He didn’t want to be put in a corner. He isn’t willing to be named, like you and I. And some of you aren’t willing to be named because you don’t know the consequences. Some of us are willing to be named, and know the consequences. We know what’s in store for people who will name it. But I say that none of these remedies will get through until the American people are informed, that the only hope for them is to own the industries, to own the oil companies, to own the hospitals, to own all the means of production, and all the markets, to own everything in common. That has to come, and it will not come any other way, and China— he talks about violence. Violence is not— There no need to operate on anyone in China. (Pause) He said, what worked for China— Well, it worked for China, wouldn’t— -He kind of left us thinking, well, that worked for China, fine, it might not work for America. Well, what the hell. If it worked for China— China was in the Stone Ages. China was in the Stone Ages in 1949. Do you realize where they were? They were speaking 600 different languages in 1949. They were a divided people, they didn’t even know what it was to have pl— modern plumbing. They didn’t have electricity. (Pause) Now they’ve got nuclear reactors. Now they have modern jets. They have a perpetual pump. They have synthetic insulin. You have to go and buy insulin, uh, from animals, to kill animals. The Chinese have the only country in the world that has a synthetic insulin that’s not made from others uh, dying. No animal has to die to give the Chinese people insulin. But more than that, in 20 years, China has stopped all violence. They only had seven murders all last year, and we have more than that in San Francisco on Friday night.

Congregation: Right. Applause

Jones: (Voice rises) Now the church has always said that man is shaped in sin by heredity. This is why we are opposed to religion. That’s why Christ is opposed to the religion. Christ would not (tape distortion) what religion says. Billy Graham and all those modern theologians like [Rev. Kathryn] Kuhlman and all these faker-healers and all this (tape distortion) bunch of Christians, they say, Man is prenatally born in sin. They say, man is conceived in sin, and shapen in iniquity. Man, they say, comes into the world a sinner. No, we don’t a— buy that. We don’t believe that. We don’t accept that. Socialists will not accept that. We say that the— as Jesus said, the Light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world. There is goodness in everyone, and you can shape them by the society they live in. Uh— That’s the way uh, the prostitutes were taken from here— from London alleys and London streets, and put in America, and they set up a decent cooperative society. They became decent, because they had for a moment in America, in the early days of America, they had a structure that gave them hope. That’s why we have criminals here, who would once cut your throat, who would once uh, sell you out for a quarter. There are people here that would’ve given your body, woulda cut you up and sliced you up, to got [get] a shot of the heroin or cocaine. I mean, right in this room. Some of them ushering in these aisles. Now, they wouldn’t— they wouldn’t sell you out for anything, because they found a society that redeemed them. They have been given a structure where there was security. You would’ve called them sinners. You would’ve called some of these people that are in our midst murderers. You would’ve said they were sinners. No, all they needed was a new nation, a new family — shh! — a place where they could be accepted, and when they were accepted, they were not murderers anymore. Chinese used to kill each other, tribal wars, great horrible tribal wars 20 years ago, now there’s no murder, because there’s a family. The family of socialism exists. We do not accept religion. Religion says— Your Bible religion and all churches say, that man is born a sinner. We say no, he’s not born a sinner. He is a child of the most high. He’s born with light, he’s born with truth, that man has the highest potential evolution. We do not accept religion. Religion says man’s born a sinner. No, he’s not born a sinner. Ah— We’ve got to get this question settled here, because I hear some of this bullshit still preached from this pulpit, that man’s born in sin. Man, the only sin’s you’re born in, is the society, the kind of community you live in. If you’re born in a socialist community, then you’re not born in sin. (Pause) If you’re born in this church, this socialist revolution, you’re not born in sin. If you’re born in capitalist America, racist America, fascist America, then you’re born in sin. But if you’re born in socialism, you’re not born in sin.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: (Quieter) That’s why we’re not like any other church. People say, well I (tape distortion, silence for several seconds) enjoy this church, then I go over and enjoy others. If you do, then you’re sick.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: If you can enjoy this church (tape distortion) and enjoy another church, because they’re teaching exactly the opposite of what they say.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: [You] Say, I enjoy Kathryn Kuhlman. If you could, then you must be sick, because Kathryn Kuhl— (tape distortion, then last sentence repeated) [You] Say, I enjoy Kathryn Kuhlman. If you could, then you must be sick, because Kathryn Kuhlman won’t even let a black work for her in her house. There’s not a black in her foundation. She’s worth millions, and not a dollar of it has gone to the poor. She stands up in her white robes and acts like she heals people, and yet Samuel Goldwyn m— Studios said they couldn’t find one healed. They had to come to us, because they couldn’t find one person that she healed. They couldn’t find one person that Oral Roberts healed. They went up to all the healers, and they couldn’t find one that they healed. But even if they did— (Pause) Even if they did, when the money doesn’t go to the right things, when the right teachings are not there, who wants healings? We want a new society, we want a new family of man.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: We want to see a Jerusalem, a socialist Jerusalem, a modern heaven. We want it to come down out of the skies, because we cannot find anything in the skies. Sky is everywhere where there is nothing. Oblivion, countless eons of space, time and light-years to get to nowhere. You can start out and get nowhere, travelling for the next millions and millions of light-years at the speed of s— of speed of light at a hundred and whatever— a thou— thousand miles it goes a second. Horrible. You can’t get to heaven by flying to it. Takes you too long. And there— Nobody— They been having astrolomer— astrologers— astronomers, rather, have been looking out there for m— eons and eons, been looking out there, they never have found any heaven. (Pause) They’ve not found any heaven out there. There’s no— There’s no ci— bejeweled city of enchanted inertia. No one’s been able to get it on a telescope. No one’s been able to pick up the heavenly choir on any of the radiar— radar waves they send out there. Nobody’s been able to pick it up, because it’s not out there.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Now I want you to know that religion is an opiate to the people. Soon our confrontation will come. Soon we will have to decide, whether we go to safety, or whether we will fight our enemies, and you’ve got to know what you believe. Even though it’s late, you’ve got to know what you believe. If you don’t believe what we believe, then why— why uh, enjoy the blessing of the test that we’re going to go through. Sooner or later, they’re going to come. They’re going to rap at these doors, because we represent a threat. We represent a threat to the power structure. We represent a threat to the oppressive society. The Civil Rights Commission, as I told you, came and said, we’re the only hope. Said, it even was a leak, I didn’t go on further. Even a leak from the FBI said we were the only group that were really a viable force for social change. So because of that, the Civil Rights Commi— Oh, they weren’t praising us. They were just telling a fact. And the Civil Rights Commission came because there were a couple of those workers who still had a conscience, and they said Father [Theodore] Hesburgh, before [then-President Richard] Nixon fired him, said we were the only hope of America. Well, that’s a bad situation. (Pause) It’s a bad situation. Deputy Mayor [Joe] Johnson of this city, who is coming Friday, and perhaps with Mayor [Joseph] Alioto, so be here. And we know Mayor Alioto doesn’t know where it’s at, but we’re going to act kindly to him, because of why? Because I want to protect you, I want to put a wall— a hedge around you. I want to put a hedge around you, with as many people as I can, so that perhaps when they come to get us, (Pause) I’ll have some unrighteous Mammon. That’s an old parable that you would realize. I don’t like the use of that term. It’s a biblical term. Unrighteous Mammon. I will have made friends of people who don’t know socialism, so that they will give you— they’ll give you some elbow room to get out, to get on our way. That’s why I associate with Aliotos and— Not personally, I don’t socialize with him. I wouldn’t go to a tea with him. I’ve always told you. I go nowhere that you can’t go. But that’s why I mean I form alliances with whoever I can, to protect us on the right flank and the left flank and the lower parts and the upper parts, to protect us. So this man, we make uh, contact with him. And— for twofold reason: We hope that he’ll do something to stop this abusive thing that’s being done to poors— the poor people of the world, the poor— Excuse me, I will try to get as many words in to one, because I’m very tired of speaking, and sometimes I’ll— I’ll make a word a plural that shouldn’t be, because I’m exhausted with speaking, because I’m exhausted with fools. These people are fools. They’re— they’re raving on about making changes that you’ll never make. They’ll never make a change. You’ll never going to get a change until you tell the common man, they’re going to have to get down where the oppressed class is. It’s no use for him to talk to legislators. He’s talking about talking to legislators. They’re— they’re the instruments of the oppressive class. They’re the instruments of the rich. They’re not going to change anything. He needs to get out into the highways and hedges, amongst common people like you and I, and tell them, build socialism, build a world that’s based on a people’s government.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Personally, I would be very happy if they came for me, and I would be glad to be the first to go to the execution line. That’s what I feel about it. I’m very, very wearied with this society. I’m very tired and tried with its sickness everywhere you go. I’m very disturbed over the fact in this room that some do not listen. Some of my older ones do. I looked back there and I was looking at Edith, looking at me, Edith Parks, looking at me attentively. She’s been operated for cancer, and it’s been arrested through the love ministry here. But she went through a lot of things. But she was listening to what I was saying politically. Some of you people who are younger, you don’t even listen. You don’t even listen. You don’t know what the hell you believe, ’cause you never have listened. I’ve loo— I’ve shook a finger at a boy up there, and he’s still up there not listening, got his hands on his— (stumbles over words) head on his ha— hands. I was waving my hand at him. He never listens. He claps when everybody else claps, but he doesn’t know what the hell’s going on. And he never will know what the hell’s going on, until he gets the wax out of his ears and starts listening. Whole lot of people here, you clap (claps hands several times) just because somebody claps. You don’t know what the hell you’re clapping for.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: You just clap. (claps hands several times) You just stand up, and you ha-ha, or bravo. You don’t know what we’re talking about. You’re just on your feet, up and clap and sit down, shut your ears for the rest of the time. I don’t want you to face troubles. It’s going to be a glorious moment when they shoot me. If they ever did. If they ever could. It’d be a glorious movement— moment when they took some of us and put us on the gallows in this society, because we know how iniquitous the leaders of this society are. But some of you, you’ll tremble, ’cause you don’t know. You’ll say, well, how did I get in this mess? I didn’t know that’s what we were. I didn’t know we were a revolutionary movement. I didn’t know we were opposed to all the violence and crime of capitalism. I didn’t know. I just clapped when everybody else clapped. So you’ll miss the glory. To us, when it comes, we’ll march up forward and say, can I help you with the noose?

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: I mean, if that were— if that were the road that we had to take. If indeed, that were the road we had to take. This young man, I respect him, because he’s above other doctors, but I don’t respect that he’s a coward. He knows socialism’s the best, because I talked to him downstairs. But I wouldn’t expose him that way. He’s a coward. He said, you know, wi— paranoids have reasons. Everyone’s afraid to say what they are. Everyone’s afraid to stand up and be counted. But he’s ten times better than your doctor that you probably got working on you every day in the room. Doctors (small laugh) are a sorry lot. They don’t mind talking about cutting on people or experimenting with people, they think they have a certain divine prerogative to do with the human body whatever they wish. (Long pause) (Aside) Who cares whose picture’s bigger? Our publication department holding up the brochures that’re going to Texas, because there’s uh, Bishop Crane’s picture was bigger than mine. (Addresses congregation) I said, who in the hell’s ca— cares whose picture is bigger than who. (Laughs) I’m not worried about whose picture is bigger. We don’t get the message, honey. I’m not trying to get my picture across. I’m trying to get a revolution across.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: Peace. Peace. America’s— America’s desperately wicked, because its wickedness is based on the rule of what he call sons-a-bitches. And he’s right. You can’t take one son-a-bitch. That won’t do it. No use to martyr a son-of-a-bitch and shoot him, because there’ll be two sons-a-bitches that’ll step in his place. You gotta get rid of the son-of-a-bitching system. Not the son-of-a-bitch, but get rid of the son-of-a-bitching system that created the sons-a-bitches.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: The emphasis always— the emphasis, they’re always talking about the bitch, you know, they’re— they’re— the bad part of it’s the bitch. So the bitch is capitalism. (Pause) The bitch is the money system that says right to make a profit, no matter who you destroy, the right to get what you want. So the bitch is what we want to destroy, not the son. You get rid of the bitch— ’cause it may be a bastard, I think there’s a lot of chauvinism in that, but whoever— whoever started this mess, let’s call it bastard or bitch, but whatever, we’re not going to get rid of the son. That won’t solve the problem. You— You get rid of a Nixon, that’s just one of the sons-of-bitches. You got rid of [former Vice President Spiro] Agnew, that’s just a son-of-a-bitch. So you’re going to have get rid of the bitch that’s created the mess. And the bitch is the oppressive, monetary system.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: You know what racism is. You say, I don’t want to talk about that, I see, I’ve got some black people here. You say, I wish you wouldn’t talk about that. All we need to concern ourselves with is inter-ro— integration. Civil rights. Don’t you know that the only reason racism exist is because of capitalism?
Scattered: Yeah.

Jones: The rich wanted somebody to do cheap labor. They wanted to get rich off of somebody. And so they took the black man’s ass and put him out in the hot cotton fields and gave him nothing, so the rich could get richer. So you cannot talk about civil rights without talking about capitalism. Capitalism means— What is capitalism? How many know what it means in this room? (Pause) A lot of you don’t know. It means the right to hold as much money as you wish, that anyone or any group of individuals can hold as much money as they wish and own as much property as they wish, even though blacks or poor whites are left without a place to even lay their head on a bed. That’s what the— what the society of capitalism says, the anti-Christ system says. Jesus called it the love of money which is the root of all evil, and that’s capitalism. It’s the anti-Christ system. In that anti-Christ system, you can’t talk about race. No use to talk about getting racial improvements. I hear these fools talking about black businesses. What the hell of a chance you’ve got to get any black businesses? They’re not going to let any black businesses succeed. The whites have got the control on the wealth. You’ve got to have this wealth taken out of their hands, and redistributed, dime for dime, dollar for dollar, acre for acre, it’s gotta be in the hands of all the people, and kept there by a council of the people, by the people and for the people.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: Peace. I know that— that— that the— the cynical mind will say, it can’t work. Well, I saw heaven in Cuba. Some of us saw it works heavenly well. And I’ll take my chance on the mistake — they keep referring to the Soviet Union as a mistake — well, Dr. Sabitnov (phonetic) still reminds us of the beautiful medical care, the tremendous nursery system— At least nobody’s shot down in the streets there. They will put somebody in a mental institution, call them a little whacky when they want to return to capitalism, but even then, I didn’t want to get in and argue with him. In the Soviet Union this last— uh, this last lo— uh, poet that they put in a mental institution, do you know what he was saying? Man has the right to do with property what he wants to do. (Pause) Now you gonna let that kinda talk go on in a socialist country? I don’t know whether you can or not. I read his whole remarks. He’s a dissenter, he prides himself on being a dissenter. But a dissenter for dissent’s sake is not very valuable. (Pause) I mean, you should read what some of these people that are in trouble in the Soviet Union are saying. At least they don’t shoot them down like they do Malcolm [X] in a public meeting, by— by the secret police anymore. At least they don’t shoot down Martin Luther Kings and senators and presidents. You don’t hear of anyone being shot down there. They may go to the mental hospital for three or four years. But I read what this last guy was saying, Yuri something, I’ve forgotten what he was. And he said, I’m— we ought to have the right to use our body the way we wish, (claps hands once) and to accumulate property the way we wish, to have what we want. No. (Pause) Only can we have what everybody else can have. There’re too many people on the planet. It’s wonderful to talk in these anarchistic terms, “Well, I’m gonna have what I want.” You’re talking dreams and nonsense. There’re people on this planet that will starving by 1975, according to [consumer advocate Ralph] Nader, according to [author Paul] Ehrlich, according to le— leading scientists. They’re going to be stof— they’re going to be starving to death on TV, and already in ’73, you’re looking on your TV, seeing the blacks in the northern part of Africa, seeing their animals die and the people die right on TV. And you can walk down our stairs and see a million— some of the million that died last year. So you don’t have a right anymore to say I’ll take— I’ll do with me what I want. You can’t do that. That’s not fair. It’s not fair that you have a right to do with you what you want, when other people are starving to death. So we can only move. I can move no further than you. If you have certain things, then I can have them. And if I have certain things, then you can have them. But we all must have the same. If that’s one acre, fine. If that’s just a few feet, hell, I don’t need anything. All I need is a tent. I’d like to live in a desert with socialist, rather than all this mess.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: I saw this evening— I saw this evening Sister Murphy [probably Mary Murphy] having to drive her car up here, and not being able to park. An older lady— the older ladies, not being able to park their car because someone’ll attack them on the streets. (Pause) All because they don’t have jobs. All because racism’s being fed and flamed. It’s being enflamed. I even think some people down the street do their— their part to enflame it. Lot of people enflaming prejudices and division, trying to divide the people. And I say that only one people have to gain, if you divide the races. (Pause) That’s the rich man. If you divide poor blacks from poor Chicanos, and poor whites from poor Chinese, there’s only one person gonna stand to gain. That’s the rich honkies that control the system. So I wonder why they get by, get by with all the stuff they get by with. Yesterday, somebody’s brains was nearly beat out on the street out here, with a claw hammer. The man that has a church next door. (Pause) It’s done by one of these men from the church down the road. Our si— three of our sisters saw it. Beat him with a claw hammer. Now if we went out there with a claw hammer and beat somebody, (Pause) (Small laugh) they’d have the TACT squad down here.

Congregation: Reaction.

Jones: All right. (Stumbles over words) If somebody leaves their movement, they get shot on the street. (Pause) They’re dead. (Pause) Shot on the street, or buried, or baptized, like they did the little children. One, this football player that— or basketball player, and all these children were drowned in a bathtub. And I haven’t hea— seen one person arrested for it. (Pause) Well, after you see so much get by, you uh— I hopefully think, though maybe it’s that the people are so afraid of any group that’s together, that they let them get by when they will fight (stumbles over words) valiantly or fight cowardly, like that would be. I say it’s cowardly to drown little children of your opposition. But the fact is, that the dissenting Muslim groups’ children were drowned in Washington, D.C. two months ago. You read it in your paper. A bloodbath. And there’s not been one piece of indictment handed down. So I wonder if some of these people are not infiltrated by the honkies. So it’s a— it’s us against the world. It’s us against the world. All the time, we see the horror of this society. We see it in the television, we see it on the streets, we see it in the jobs. You’ve got to be sick of it. That’s our only hope. If we’ll be sick of it sufficiently, that when they come after us, that whatever we do, we’ll do it together. Otherwise, if they can take a few here, and take a few over here, and divide us, our stand will have been in vain, and it’ll— all that we’ve held dear will be mockery. But if, when they come, you’ve been sick enough of this society that you feel like I do and some of the people in this room do now, that you’d rather live in a tent in a desert than to live in this mess.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: I saw this KGO [San Francisco television station] thing. It was supposed to be on Tuesday. The liars, they lie. They was talking to the KGO (stumbles over words) production manager, three of our people talked to the same man, he said each time, he was a different person. Liars. They don’t want to face up to anything. We just have to fight and to push to get our rights. Oh, we got it— we got it— August 28. He said, well, Watergate pre-empts you. (Pause) You get taken off because of Watergate. Well, he said, well, we’re gonna find a time when there isn’t any Watergate. When’s that gonna be? So we finally pinned their nose down till it’s August 28, I think, on Tuesday, there’ll be no Watergate. But they want to give us a lesser time, you know. They never want to give you the prominence. They don’t want this group to have any prominence, and it all boils down to one thing: socialism. (Stumbles over words) It slipped out, little black woman there said, you know, you’re— you’re kinda a hot potato, (Pause) because they consider everybody down there socialist. (Pause) That’s why we’re a hot potato. You see, we’re a hot potato because we of— we of— we offer an alternative. We offer an alternative, and as small as we are, they— they really don’t know what to do with this kind of alternative. Now it’s possible that maybe they are not so organized. Maybe they don’t control this bunch down here. I hope they don’t. But when I see a white man’s head beat in like I saw it yesterday through my women, rather than see him beat in and nothing done about it, I wonder. (Pause) I know one thing, if we’d use a claw hammer on a dog, they’d have a TACT squad here. If we would— If we would sock somebody outs— out front, they’d be here. We saw it in Los Angeles, when we tried to protect that woman there, that had the stroke and died, when I tried to protect her, they had helicopters over our heads.

Congregation: Reaction

Jones: And machine guns right on us in three minutes. ‘Course we’ve— we went on and fought them. We fought them valiantly. We fought them valiantly, and we won. We won a skirmish. There— there— there may be some soft bellies, but I really do wonder how they get by with some of the stuff they get by with in this other group. I wonder how they get by with it. (Pause) Killing your opposition. Wonder what would’ve happened if we’da killed [newspaper columnist and Temple antagonist Lester] Kinsolving. (Pause) Hmm? Wonder what would happen. We’re a nonviolent group, fortunately for Kinsolving. (Pause) Well, we’ll find out the answer to some of these questions someday, because if they ever come after us, I’m sure that uh, if they shed our blood, I got a feeling there’ll be some other blood mixed with ours.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: Peace. You say, talk nonviolent. I’ve got a couple of ladies here that’re disturbed about that too. [You] Should always talk nonviolent. You should talk honest, that’s what you should talk. If you’re dealing with people who are nonviolent, they can appreciate nonviolence. But if you’re talking to a violent sadist, if you tell him you won’t do anything when they come, they’ll cut your— (stumbles over words) your women apart, and your children apart, and try your nonviolence to the nth degree. They’ll try it right down to the road. They’ll put it to the road. Now the question is, can you live your nonviolence? I got a few in here, still says they’re nonviolent. Wait’ll they come after somebody that’s dear to you. The fact of the matter, I think that some of you that are talking nonviolence, I don’t even trust what you’d do when they come after your ass.

Congregation: Laughter and stirring.

Jones: Now if I were the only one left, I’d let them cut me, and I would go mute. I would stand right still. If I didn’t have you to protect. If these vicious enemies of the people came after me, I would stand while they cut my parts, or my organs off, my eyes out, and the little thing that you pride so much, your penis, they could cut that off, and I would never say another word, as much as it has been a center of pleasure. I would just stand right there, if I wasn’t for you, and take it all, ’cause there would be no point, to shi— to get involved with their viciousness. But, you see, I’ve got you to protect. (Pause) And I wouldn’t be worth my salt if I’d stand up here like some of these— I heard Joan Baez say, she said, she would never lift a violent finger to protect her child. I don’t believe her. I first don’t believe her. Because I’ve seen her be damn violent. I’ve met her. (Laughs) I saw, when I got her in a corner when she was damn violent. Because she— she’s a woman that has to have the last word. And when she doesn’t get the last word, she was awfully violent with her words. And we had someone that worked in her research center. She got up and said, I will not lift my finger (Pause) to protect my child. I say then, she ought— she ought to get whatever’s coming to her. Because I say, you ought to— If anyone comes after your children — you see, I have adopted all of you — if anyone comes after your children and you won’t protect your children, how does anyone know you’ve got anything decent in you at all?

Congregation: Stirs, then applause

Jones: I’da been killed by now, if you’da been talking that way. They’da had me, because they tried with the automated truck. They came with an automated truck, to run me off down the side of a mountain. They came with guns, and they shot me down. They’ve given me poison, then they’ve run over me another time with a truck and twisted this leg. And you’da talked— if we hadn’t stopped this nonviolent shit, (Pause) they never woulda stopped. Finally they would’ve caught me at a weak moment. That’s not to say we’re not going to run in trouble, ’cause I[‘m] not concerned about that. If dying is what’s necessary for me to live this belief, then I’ll die. I’m perfectly glad to die. But I do not want it to be invited. Now Martin Luther King invited it. He said, I— We will do nothing. We will never resist. [He] Said, my movement will never resist. His wife [Coretta Scott King] said — I wonder how she feels about it — Mrs. King said, the night before he died, if Martin was murdered— the night before she [he] died, she said it on the platform— If Martin was murdered, our whole movement would still maintain nonviolence. I wonder how Mrs. King feels about that today. I wonder if she’s really thought, now that she’s built a great big old monument to him, and has deprived the money to the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, and last week, it went down the drain, because [Rev. Ralph] Abernathy had to resign. There’s nothing left. Martin Luther King has lived and has died in vain.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: The honky heart is as mean as it ever was. Prejudice is just as rank as it was the day he took on the Montgomery bus problem. It’s just as mean, it’s just as vicious, it’s just as cruel. And now all the monies that could’ve been used for his movement even, that he couldn’t even die. He couldn’t even die. ‘Cause you see, he wasn’t a nonviolent man, really. He told me what his views were. You remember, I spoke with him. We had him on our platform. I know what he was. He said, I’m taking a stance of nonviolence, because it’s the only way you can work in the American system. And I’ve never— I’ve never been uh, one to practice that. I said, well, Martin, I can’t buy that, and I’m not able to be a hypocrite. He said, well, you have to be. You remember what I told you what he said, and we— the vo— ministers here can verify, he said, you better work in the Baptist Church. I don’t believe a thing the Baptist Church teaches. He said, I don’t believe there’s any heaven or hell. He said, I don’t believe there’s any immortality. But he said, you’ve got to be a Baptist to affect black people. I said, I’ll never be able to do that, Martin. I said, I can’t go that Baptist route. And I said, I cannot get up and say I would always be nonviolent, because if they come after one of my children, I’ll fight like hell.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Peace. Peace. Now Martin’s dead. And he was not guilty of the real crime. He was again trying to do what this man was doing. He was trying to do a halfway measures, not put his whole hal— ass out, maybe not even to save his ass, but he was trying to think, well, I can get more effect by holding back what I really am. This man’s trying to hold back what he really is. Martin has proven that will not work. Martin proved it will not— it won’t work. It’s not worked. Now what— how horrible it would be for me, oh how horrible it would be for me, to have lived all those years, 39 years — was he 39 when he passed? — (claps hands once) 39 years for an idea, and then not to even see the idea carry on. Not to even— nobody even knows what he stood for. It’s all dead, down the drain. Dr. Abernathy fell on his grave, and he said, Martin, I’m sorry. There’s no way I could pay the bills. The movement’s dead. Three years after his murder — four years — and the movement’s dead. I want you to see, that if they— you see? The pattern. I want you to get this pattern in your mind, there are more than two nonviolent members here. There’s two that are very vocal about it. There’re a lot of you that feel nonviolence is the best way. And I say, too it is, we’ll not bother anyone, ‘less they bother us.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Peace. Peace. But isn’t it strange that the night before he murdered—he was murdered, his wife assumes the dignified role and the hypocritical role saying, if Martin were even taken from us, we would not resort to violence. Did she not invite that assassin and that group of assassins to come out from their hole and think they could wipe him out and do it with impunity and get by? Did she not really invite their murderous skill? No, we’re saying— and when I started this, we haven’t had an assassination attempt, a clear— crystal-clear assassination attempt in months. When I started, I said, all right. You kill me, these people will make sure that you’ll have to kill every damn one of them.

Congregation: Thunderous cheers and applause

Jones: Peace. Peace. Martin doesn’t have a piece of property. There’s not a piece of property owned by the foundation. Nothing but a monument. That’s all that’s left, just a little flame, a little flame blowing in— glowing in the dark. What the hell is that going to do for poor blacks? What will that do for America? As uh, Abernathy said, how many blacks will that feed? What will that do to help to foster the dream that Martin said, when he said, I may not get [be] able to cross over, but you’ll cross over. And the son of the Georgian slave and the son of the Georgian plantation owner will live on the same clay and build a better world. He said, what’s a monument going to do to bring about Martin Luther King’s dream or vision? Now I have already, by several years, passed up Martin. And we have got several acres, and we’ve got some money, and we’ve got some supplies, and we’ve got people up and down this coast, and if they kill me, there will be the damndest uproar that is ever heard.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Peace. Peace. And why do we say that? Why is it necessary? Because Jim’s concerned about dying? Jim wants to die. Jim does not like this sinful society. Jim does not like this evil. The Father doesn’t recognize this world. This world is evil. Not people. The world of capitalism is a sinner. Not the people. It’s the world of capitalist thought, the world of monetary system, the rich love— the love of money. That’s the sin. I hate it. I’d like to die. But you see, I must not die until it’s— the last bit of me is used. I’ve got to be used up. That’s why you’ve got to make sure— You know, you’re not doing it for me. You know I don’t mind dying, do you— don’t you? I hope you understand, the best service you could give me is to let me leave the body. If you could say to me tonight, Father, I do not need you anymore, I would disappear in just a few seconds. If every one of my children would say that, if all said that, Father, I need you no more, (claps hands once) you would look up here, and suddenly, there would be nothing. Because I would resort back in to the time and space and energy from which I came. But I know that will not happen. So that’s why I stand here, and that’s why you must say, take my Father, and you will have to kill me.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Peace. Peace. (Pause) Peace. (Pause) (Menacing) Never give them an inch. Never let them take one. Let them take one, and they’ll come for two. That’s why, when someone said to me the other day, when one of our people was in trouble, and I announced to the whole congregation, I said, go get them, they said, he’s been in trouble before, he isn’t appreciative of you. I said, let them take one of us, and tomorrow they’ll take two. I don’t care if he’s not appreciative of me, I’m getting him out of jail. Because my children — and the whole world’s gonna learn — you don’t mess with the Jones family.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Peace. (Pause) (Quieter) You know— That isn’t to say we won’t be attacked by the Internal Revenue [Service], they’re always out there agitating, they’re even now studying what books people read in libraries. The Internal Revenue’s involved itself in a break-in. Walter Heady’s (phonetic) friend was telling me about, they were shot down without even a warrant, they broke in their house. But you know that anybody else who’s attacked in the newspaper— if you’re attacked in a newspaper, within just a matter of a few days or weeks, the Internal Revenue comes. That’s automatic. That’s what our lawyers told us. The biggest in this town. The biggest Jewish firm, Hallinan, the most radical firm, another firm I’m talking about, two different firms, the biggest judges, the pleef— police chief says, you can look for it now. The editor of the paper says, every time you’re attacked in the newspaper, Internal Revenue comes within a few weeks. (Pause) Well, you know why they haven’t come. (Pause) They just don’t know what to do with us yet for sure.

Congregation: Tentative cheers and applause

Jones: Now it’s been nearly a year. (Pause) Don’t think they didn’t want to come, ’cause we have clear proof that the director of this region said, to Kinsolving, I’ll get them. (Pause) We have clear proof. (Pause) Why isn’t he getting us? (Pause) Well, we’re not going to try to prophesy. But we would suggest that the Internal Revenue does not— you see, now, we only claim ten percent. We could claim 25%. That would cost the government $50,000. Or what’s more, if they fool with us, we could all stop paying our taxes.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Say, you’d lose your job. Well, that doesn’t bother folk that’s got greens growing. We got a way. We got a way. You say, well, they’d take the money out of your bank. (Pause) That’s indeed true, they’d take all the money we have in banks.

Congregation: Light laughter, then cheers and applause

Jones: Father’s not a fool.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: [You] Say, Father, do you have some of our money? Not a dime of it. But some of you do. Some of you do. There’ll always be a little bit of money trickling out to feed us. And if we could lose all of our jobs, there’d be a little money tricklin’ out here and tricklin’ out there, ’cause we’ve got money in heavenly banks.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Like shit we do. (Pause) You understand what I’m saying.

Congregation: Yes.

Jones: We learned in the Depression. I don’t personally handle any of the money. But the best and ablest, black and white, of this crowd— and I have them under security too. They’re under security. And there’s money from Mexico’s hills. Nearly. (Pause) On this side of the border. There’s money from here to Montana, and it’s checked every once in a while, to see if it’s still there. So the only way they’re going to stop us from eating is to change the kind of paper bills they’re using and the kind of silver that they’re using.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Oh, no, honey, I— I— I didn’t get up that late in the morning. I got up early in the morning. What do you say? Well, you can’t do that. Oh yes, there’s no law says we can’t do that. There’s a law says a preacher can’t take any money. I haven’t taken a dime of it. I haven’t taken a dime of it. But I’ll tell you, nobody else has taken a dime of it. And I wouldn’t care if they even dug up every hole we got. We’ve got so much industriousness, we’ve got so much know-how, that they could take all of our jobs. Now that’s what the Internal Revenue ah, better decide, and they’re kind of listening in tonight. They better decide whether they want now— uh, right now we’re making for this government millions of dollars every year. Now if they want all of us niggers to go on welfare, they—

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: There’s never been a dime misused in this church. And that— I’m not going to sit back, and you must not sit back. If they come here to audit us, it must be demanded that every church gets the same auditing. They’re not going to fool with our books. Let ’em mess with these churches of preachers’ got Rolls Royce. They got one down the street. Let them mess with all of ’em. They’re not messing with our books, and we’ve got to make that covenant. If they come for our books, we’re all gonna say, you want us to stop paying our taxes? And if they say, they— well, they’re still gonna mess with ’em, we’ll all quit our jobs and we go on welfare, that’s what we’ll do.

Congregation: Sustained cheers and applause

Jones: You’ve got to show these people that they’re not going to push you around. That’s the only answer. And the— for that, for tonight, it’s been worth it, that you know what we’re standing for. (Pause) That’s why nothing’s gonna happen to Nixon, nothing going to happen to him at all. There’s enough henchmen up there to look after the ones that’re in power upstairs. So we are not henchmen, but we are freedom fighters. So if these henchmen can— They’re all lily— (Tape edit?) Watergate’ll peter on, it’ll peter on, it’ll peter on until people won’t give a damn, they won’t know Watergate from urine. They won’t— it won’t— it won’t mean anything, it’ll just peter on, and peter out, and Nixon will go on and his crowd will go on, and the same de facto fascism will go on, and the same kind of brain surgery will be practiced, until it finally gets too bad, and we have to leave. And we’ll be able to leave, if you’ll listen to me. I’ll be able to save you. If they won’t let us save the country, at least I’ll be able to save you and your immediate loved ones, I’ll save them, if you listen to me, but if you let one word of criticism come in, if you let one little thought get in, if you f— let anything divide you, you’ve been finished. Because, you see, those henchmen up there take care of themselves. That’s why we freedom common niggers must take care of ourselves.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: I cannot beat on that enough. They will not bother us if we are determined enough. But we’ve got to better than what you’ve done in the past. If they come after us again, you don’t want to go down there 200 strong around the Examiner. You’ll have to fill every body in this body, every body in this family will have to be in front of Internal Revenue.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: You’ll have to be on the ball. And I’ve got people here in government who’ll hold— ho— hold government jobs that are saying, that’s right, yes, amen. They’re saying it the loudest. Some of them work for these agencies that I’m talking about. If they can say it, their whole career is in these agencies. I’m not gonna name their names. We got people who work in Internal Revenue, many of them, up and down this country. But I’m going to say, if they can say, to hell with my career, that’s right, then you need to say it. You need to say it.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: And I wouldn’t talk about anything I didn’t have reason to talk about, so you can believe it. So get your mind geared for what you’re going to do. When I say, come march, you march. If you don’t march, you’ll lose your life, child. You’ll never be— never be able to get away from the connection you’ve had with this group. They’ll get you. I want to tell you some sa— uh, sorrowful story before I end. We, on occasion, one time, in this church, signed a petition to a court. Some of you’d remember that, back in Ohio— Indiana. We signed a petition to the court, because they were beating a person badly in a ja-— in a prison. On a matter of conscience, a Presbyterian. They were beating this man and mistreating him. Our group signed a petition, sent it to the judge. In two weeks — not one day less, not one day more — in two weeks, each of us that signed that petition was called in by the Internal Revenue, the tax people. In those days, we were only 75. They were going to finish us. (Pause) Now, a lot of you may not like Rheaviana Beam, and I’ve had Rheaviana Beam publicly, and I’ve given her hard ways to go, she’s got her manners. But Rheaviana Beam saved us, ’cause she was the only one other but myself that had any guts. (Pause) It’s truth. I mean let— that showed their guts anyway. They brought us all in. The judge had sent it to the Internal Revenue. This is how connected this conspiracy— This man says there’s no conspiracy. That was 15 years ago. I’m talking about 15 years ago, and the judge got it to the Internal Revenue, and (claps hands once) the Internal Revenue got it to its investigators in two weeks. Every name on that list pro— pro— protesting the treatment, the civil rights that had been denied to this brother. Two weeks. The Cincinnati Federal District Court got it to Indianapolis to the tax division, a totally different division— (Calls out) You wake up back there, or I’ll throw something at you. I want you to get this. Show you how dangerous this thing is. (Returns to congregation) They drug us in here, and drug us in, our people apologized and apologized and apologized. Rheaviana Beam brought her— (voice trails as Jones murmurs aside) (Pause) (tape edit?) — didn’t even, they didn’t even bother to sl— look up our addresses, they brought it to uh, the church, our (tape distortion for one word) to the church. (Pause) Demanded that I present them. Well, I got Rheaviana Beam, so they— they got us all in, they’re gonna take our taxes in little by little, (voice too soft away from mike) little by little, Rheaviana Beam happened to be (unintelligible word) almost number five or six in the line. She’d gathered up all of her slips, all of her bills, every little old receipt in a bushel basket.

Congregation: Laughter.

Jones: She gathered them up, and she said you said you wanted to be my tax records? Rheaviana Beam did— and I’ve had a lot of trouble with Rheaviana Beam, but you all ought to respect her, or our movement would’ve been dead right then. She walked up to them and said, you want to see my tax records. She just dumped that (draws out word) whole damn bushel right on his desk.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: That was 15 years ago. Fifteen years ago. He said, crazy woman, get this stuff out— I— I can’t handle it this way. And she said, well, you better get used to handling it this way, because that’s the way it’s gonna be.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: And nobody else— That was it. That was the last one they dealt with. There was only 75 of us in that day, but they never called number six, because when they got through with her, they quit messin’ with anybody else.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: And that’s what goes. If they come up our books, I want everyone of us to go and say, we’re gonna stop paying our taxes, we are being persecuted, ’cause we’ve ne— (Laughs, stumbles over words) never need to worry. We’ve paid every dime, and more. I wish I hadn’t paid ’em, but I have. I wish I’d never paid them a dime, but I have, for your well-being. I’ve paid them more. Never taken deductions that I shoulda taken. And this church certainly has earned every penny for the welfare of its people. It’s fulfilling the Bible, because the Bible says, take care of the household of the faith. They say that the church can’t take care of its own. You know, that’s another little thing they’re trying to push. The church can’t do that. Well, now, who’s gonna decide this? Us or them. The Bible that they say that they believe in says that the church must take care first of the household of faith. That means you’ve got to minister to them when they’re hungry, you’ve got to feed them when they’re naked, uh, hungry, when they’re naked, you’ve got to clothe them. So we have a right to use our money that way. That’s what going to be disputed though. They’re going to say, you cannot use your money to feed your people. You have to use it to build churches, or to buy Bibles or song hymnals. That’s what they’ll bring it to. And if they do, baby, I want you all to go in and say, you want me to quit paying my taxes? You— and I want us to show our nose in front of those headquarters (Claps hands once) night and day. We won’t stop.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: (Voice rises) Or whoever else bothers us. All we want from you is peace. If they’ll let us out of here any day. If we can get to one of these other countries that practice some kind of utopian socialism, if they’d let us all out, I’m for going. (Pause) If they bargain with me, say, you want to go to Cuba, take all your people, I say hell, yes.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: And I’ve lived down there, and seen the beauty and love and the warmth those people have. No race, no creeds or color. Even that doctor had to admit it. Beaches that Mexica— dark-skin Indians or Mexicans or Latins couldn’t go to, or blacks, now everybody shares and shares alike, there’s no race, creed nor color, they’re all one people working under the sun, go out and work the common harvest. They have free medicine, free telephones, free rent, free bus transportation, they will have no use for money in another two or three years there, that— that’s their goal. At least by 1980, they won’t even need money, because everything’s owned by all the people, so they don’t have to spend money for anything. But now, the children get free ice cream, free theaters, free education. You can be a lawyer, a doctor, and not spend a dime. Free housing, free rent, I’m talkin’ about, child, no telephone charge, no utilities, because all— the people own it all. So you see, it’s yours. And— oh— you think that they’d say, now that’s the— that’s the kind of alternative we’ll say when they come to harass us. Leave our ass alone. Now if you want to let us get out of here and go to someplace like Cuba where we can have some peace, then we’ll go there. We’ll go there. But if you won’t want to— If you want to have a fight, then we’ll fight to the last one of us.

Congregation: Sustained cheers and applause

Jones: (Aside) Yeah, come on, come on. Come in. Come on. (Back to congregation) Come on. Somebody, you had a— a green Skylar— a Skylark. Fortunately my picture’s in it. 875ECT. You left your keys in it, and unlocked. Well, it’s all right. It’s all right. You gotta get this uh— my picture’s in it, and it’s not been stolen. You know— (Sigh) And then I want to see, there’s— weren’t those little— there’s couple of little boys responsible for that, isn’t there? Well, go get them, I’ll— let’s get— give each— give me a dollar. Somebody get me a dollar. They didn’t take that car and come up here— See, the little kids on the street knows the people. Somebody else give me a dollar here, for one for each of them. They came in here and reported your car being— the car’d been stolen. (Pause) Now, I see the people that— Na— Uh, yours? It’s E— It’s 875ECT. Green Skylark. My picture’s in it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. (Away from mike)

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Bring these little boys up. Bring these little boys up. Bring the little brothers up. (Pause) (Unintelligible word) little brothers, my God, they’re not little brothers, they’re big brothers. Come on. Give me another one. Give me another one. Give me a third one. Give me a third one.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I want five apiece. (Pause) Brothers’ honesty, (unintelligible word) group of socialism, want to give you some money—

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Away from mike, too soft) This is a black liberation movement in here. Anything we can do for you, if they give you any trouble anywhere, you’ve got a friend.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Now, that’s something. There’s your keys. (Pause) Here, hand them to her. Because they respected what we do, what I said, they saw my pictures and so, your car didn’t get stolen.

Congregation: Lighter cheers and applause

Jones: See, what’s what it is, you make some friends. Make some friends. And— And those brothers’ll feel too our friendship, because I meant that. You’ll let them know downstairs, I meant that. Get— Follow up on those two boy— those two sons. (Pause) Unheard of. They got the keys out of it, brought ’em in here because my picture was in the car. That’s a miracle.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Say— Said they wouldn’t take— They wouldn’t take— wouldn’t take any car that had anythi— any connection with this church. So you better get your pictures out. You say you don’t believe in the picture. I believe— I believe I’d buy the picture and put it up on the window now.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: You don’t believe the picture can work miracles, it may save you from losing your car, honey.

Congregation: Applause, then low conversation

Jones: You know— you know honey, uh, for them to get inside the car and find the keys— (Pause) You see, that had to be a miracle, babe. I hope you understand. I hope you understand. (Pause) They [were] in the car and saw the key and saw my picture and said, No.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: No place on earth that’s got that— And if we can’t uh, do it here, if we can’t do it here— That’s what we’ve got to bargain with them, because I tell you, I know a place that there doesn’t have this kind of thing. Cuba doesn’t have this kind of thing. It’s beautiful. I have lived there before and after, and there’s no hate, nothing but togetherness. And I mean, child, we want to build America, but if they try to destroy us, we bargain right there. Let us go, let us get our busses lined up, and if you don’t, (laughs) then you better prepare for a war dance.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Peace. Stinkin’ hospitals, and my people work in, where they’ll give special foods to special people, special nurses to special people, special attention to special people, and shove people that are— because of the color of their skin into the worst wards and give them the least care. I saw hospitals there where a— where a grape harvester, where a sugar cane cutter was considered with more reverence than these lawyers and doctors were. That’s what I saw in six months. ‘Cause they knew those lawyers and doctors had robbed the people. But when a common person come into one of those hospitals — Sister [Marceline] Jones and I saw it with our own eyes — when a common person came from the fields, the doctors were there and the nurses to receive them and to treat them like they’d long since been overdue to be treated. Because those, the people that make the bread from the earth, the people that bring the fruit from the earth, they should be given some honor.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: All right. Keep this in mind. It’ll be important to you as the days go on. Now our offering was extremely dreadful. We has to— we had to do this. We’ve made all kinds of alliances, and I’m doing it for your well-being. I wo— I don’t want a fight. And I think we can avoid a fight. And I’ll do all we can to avoid a fight. I’m just saying, if we have to fight, we’ll fight.

Congregation: Light cheers and applause

Jones: ‘Cause they’re not gone do— they’re not gone put those drills through, that this doctor talked about, they’re doing in UCLA— they’re doing this already, putting dri— bu— drills through people’s brains, and ruining their tissue, till they never can remember anymore, and never are the same. They’re not going to do that to any of us. Now we’ve pledged that that’s not going to happen to not one of us.

Congregation: Amen. Cheers and applause

Jones: They give them insulin shock till they— they— they practically— they break bones on occasion, and what is this one— the one drug that they give them, just to experiment with, to alter their behavior, that is a sensation of dying. This is commonly administered in every prison in the United States too now. It— It’s just like dying. The blood pressure drops, and they have to have a resuscitation, and a revitalization, a heart massage many times, it’s just exactly like dying. This is a mi— this is what they call behavior control. You and I have got something— and I don’t think some of you know what you’ve got. You don’t realize what you’ve got, because we’ve got a family that will fight for each other. And that must be maintained. Don’t let any rumor-bearer, don’t let any gossip, no matter what they say, you know I have proven my worth. ‘Cause I coulda walked away with all this money, if I’da asked you, you’da given me all this money. All I’d had to say is please, give me the money, and a majority of you’da given me the money. I coulda been someplace in some fine mansion across in Europe, not worried about it. (More forceful) Yes, I could, because one time, they betrayed me, before they built the first church in Redwood Valley, they weren’t living up to my teachings, and Joe Phillips got up on the floor and says, I vote we give all the money we have. We don’t follow him, he’s not worth— (stumbles over words) It isn’t worth our time, because we— (stumbles over words) Our people are so disobedient. (Pause) (Softly, to himself) Must have been an unwritten— (Pause) And to write down a revelation. (Returns to congregation) Our people are so disobedient, [he] said we are not worthy of him. And so, they sa— they had about $100,000, they said, 114, 120, [he] said, Father, take it all. I said, not a dime. I said, if you don’t want to follow me, I’ll walk out of here. If you’re going to be treas— traitors, I’ll walk out. But I will not take your money. So they decided, some people decided to start following me. (Pause) So if I’da wanted to walk, I’da walked then. If I’da wanted to do anything, baby, I’da done it then. No, I’m walking no place you can’t walk.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: That’s the way it’s gotta be. If there was no place, if it were not— if it weren’t a Cuba, or if there weren’t other places like that, if we got someplace, they said, yeah, we’ll take you, Jones, we’ll take some of you young people, but we won’t take the olders— older people because we can’t use them, we say, okay. You don’t take us, then. We stand together. I mean, that’s what it’s gonna have to be. You’re not worth your salt unless you do that. If they wouldn’t take one of our cripples or they wouldn’t take one of our people that were the poorest or the oldest, we’d just draw a circle around and say then, you’re going to have to kill us all.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: One capitalist country that some of our people wanted to look into, and I said never would work, one capitalist country said, we’ll— we’ll take your teachers, we’ll take your lawyers, we’ll take your doctors, we’ll take your engineers, but we want no one that doesn’t have a— a special profession. And I said— Well, you know what I told them. (Pause) I told them where they could stick it. And it still holds. Because, you don’t tell me we’re going to go anyplace, don’t— there wouldn’t be an engineer, and I’ve had some in here, sitting here, I’m going to plan to migrate. I’m going to go someplace. I’m going to settle someplace. I’m going to settle in Canada, like the— that Richardson clan talked, and that other— Burgess clan. I’m going to go to Canada. Well, if you’re thinking about going someplace that we’re not going, you better go before we get to you, because we’re gone whip your ass.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: You better get on and get gone. (Pause) I don’t think anything of people that will desert their— their home. I don’t think anything of mothers that will leave their children. That’s what you are. You’re a mother. You’re leaving some children. You’re a father, you’re leaving some children, ’cause each of you gotta be a father and a mother like me. I don’t think of people who— very much that walk out on their brothers and sisters. Huh-uh. I think, in fact, we ought not to let them walk out.

Congregation: Stirring, then light applause.

Jones: Now what did you mean by that? Well, honey, that’s for me to know, and for your ass to find out.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Somebody’s thinking, well, he’s gonna kill us.

Congregation: Laughter.

Jones: No, I— I promise you I will not use a gun or a knife or my hands. Is that fair?

Congregation: Stirring.

Jones: I promise I won’t lift a finger to kill you. (Pause) I won’t even wink an eye to kill you. (Pause) They’re still not satisfied. They look nervous.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: I— That didn’t give the— That didn’t give that person I wanted to give comfort to, they— they didn’t seem to get any comfort. I wonder why.

Congregation: Laughter.

Jones: Shouldn’t (unintelligible word). Isn’t that enough? You— You want me to say I wouldn’t lift my finger, I wouldn’t lift— I wouldn’t wink an eye. I wouldn’t move a muscle in my body to kill you. What you want me to say is, that I won’t use my mind. And you know damn well I will.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: So if you want to te— If anything happens to one of these traitors, and they want to arrest me and charge me for murder, they’re going to have to show that I did it by mind control. That’ll be an interesting case— That’ll be interesting in court. You’ll be able to march around the courts then, too, won’t you?

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: I can see— I can see the prosecutor say, (assumes tone of prosecutor) he killed ’em with his thoughts.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: Well, if you don’t believe that’s happened, stick around, you may find out. Some of us have seen the (claps hands twice for emphasis) thought of God. We’ve seen the thoughts of God.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: We’ve had some mean people. And I’m going to do everything I can to protect you, that are trying to be faithful. I mentioned on Sunday, or the last service, about this young woman, whose socialist husband wanted to do harm to older people, and wanted to cause violence to us, and went to police and went to newspapers, all because he was jilted by his girlfriend. (Pause) Now do you think I should protect you from people like that? You haven’t been hearing from him lately, have you? He said he was gonna go to the newspaper, and he had all the information. [He] Said he was gonna put us in the newspaper. Has anybody seen him lately?

Congregation: Stirring

Jones: You know who I’m talking about.

Several people: John Bacharach.

Jones: He swore he’d get us. Said (stumbles over words) the last thing, he took a trip to Indianapolis, where I was born, he was going to get something on me, I’m gone do this, I’m gonna get something on them, I’m gonna— I’m going to destroy you any way I can. (Pause) But nobody’s heard from John Bacharach lately.

Congregation: Stirring, a few calls, then light applause

Jones: Y’all remember John, don’t you?

Congregation: Yes.

Jones: But John ain’t talking to no newspapers these days. (Pause) That’s right. Call it what you will. Mighty God’s pretty good word for it. Mighty revolutionary’s closer, but if— Mighty God, that get— that gets the message up there, whoever said that is a sweet. Mighty God, mighty God. That— that— that— that scared rabbit up there is getting it. Now John Bacharach tried it, Russell Winburg tried it and he ended up with a heart attack at 39. Been a whole lot of people tried it. Mrs. Russell tried it last week in San Diego, and she’s dead. (Pause) Yeah, Mrs. Reynolds tried it in San Diego, in the Church of God in Christ, and she got up, and she was going to do a, “I’ll do all I can, I anti[-Christ], and I’m so glad of my organ, Jim Jones is the anti”— And she’s dead, she never got out of her mouth what she wanted to say. (Pause) [You] Say, why are you talking about that? ‘Cause I want you that are my nice children taken care of. ‘Cause he— that man was trying to destroy his own companion. Just like this man over here or this woman standing there. (Pause) Beautiful miracle. Beautiful miracle. Her husband called on these phones on Saturday last, said I’ll do what— I’ll get you people, I’ll do this, I’ll do that, I’ll do this, I’ll do that. Got him an attorney, he went to [CBS News anchorman] Walter Cronkite, he would— aw, he was going to do everything to us. Wasn’t going to pay her a dime. [He] Said, (assumes tone of husband) I’ll not pay her a dime. I’ll put her in a mental hospital for burning up her Bible. Said she didn’t— he didn’t accuse her of that, though he tried to accuse her of settin’ the house afire. Just ’cause she burned up his Bible that he was beatin’ her with. Got into court, and the attorney had everything ready. Jim Jones practices black magic. You bet I do. (Laughs)

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Ain’t no white magic going on in here, but there’s black magic going on in here. Messiah— Everything. He had the whole list. (Pause) Taking her money for the church. I give her a few words, and she rehearsed them over and over again. She has a problem with the language, but she rehearsed over and over until she got ’em down just right. I want her to say just exactly the right words, and this guy said he wasn’t going to pay a dime, all of a sudden, the court just got started. He walks his ass up and sets down on the bench, and says, I’ll give her $200.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: (Laughs) His attorney says, you don’t know what you’re talking about. You can’t afford to do that. That don’t leave you but a hundred and fifty. [He] Said, I’ll give her $200.

Congregation: Stirs.

Jones: When he got through, he [was] madder than hell, he didn’t know why he did it. (Pause) Just little ol’ me.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: He’s been mean. He’s beat that woman down, tried to make a slave out of her. (Pause) I’m trying to protect you from people like that. There’re lot of them like that. There [are] a whole lot of ’em like that. There’s only one reason they don’t bother us. It’s not because I’m sweet and gentle. It’s not because I’m kind. And I’m the kindest human that’s ever walked. The most Christlike, the most Father-like, the most God-like, if you want to say. And being God, I guess I’m the most God-like. But all those factors, that’s not why they don’t bother you. That’s why your enemies— that’s not why your enemies don’t bother you. It’s because last week, when they were bothering Sister Lewis over here, the Muslims down the way, I jumped off— I jumped off and I run down clear up to the— upstairs, and last night, they were giving me some more shit, I got hold of a phone, I said let me tell you, I got a hold of [Black Muslim leader Elijah] Muhammad himself. I said, Muhammad — It’s the truth. Sixty people here can tell you. I said, Muhammad, I’ve had enough of this shit now.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: Well, not the exact words I said, I said I want— we’re going to have some understanding. I said, you want a bloodbath out here, or you want peace? (Pause) I said, it’s up to you. Whoa— (Makes sounds of retreat) He may be a— He may be a pro— pro— prophet (mimics stutter), but he— he— he didn’t know it.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: (Laughs) He was wah-wah-wahing, all over the place. I’m not afraid of him. I don’t mean him any harm. I mean to do good for him, do good, everywhere we can. We’ll do good everywhere we can. But I’m tired of people, because Chris Lewis and John Brown have been promised an appointment, they’ve been promised that there’d be certain things done, and they never keep their promises. (Pause) Ten o’clock, they didn’t show up. Didn’t show up the whole day. They think they can push you around. You gotta learn that they can’t push us around. That’s what they’ve gotta learn, they can’t do that.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: [He] Wanted to know how I got his private number. I didn’t even bother to tell him.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: How— how’d you get you— my private number? I just went right on telling him what I had to say, and I don’t know, some of the others can tell you, they can— you can ask them what I had to say. But I laid his ass in the pasture.

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: I said, you may take claw hammers to people next door, but I said, you better not try any claw hammers with us.

Congregation: Light applause

Jones: And I do mean that. I do—

End of tapeTape originally posted January 2002

Last modified on February 18th, 2016.
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