Q1059-2 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Jones: That Bible holds on like a disease. It holds on because one time you prayed, and you got an answer. One time you read a scripture, and you felt good. You’ve forgotten the times when you prayed, and Mom died. You prayed, and Daddy didn’t come home. You prayed, and your children didn’t get any food. You prayed, and your loved one was crushed in an accident. You prayed, and your child got on dope. You forgot all those times. [You] Say, I pray to you, Jim Jones, and I didn’t help you. No, because you’re praying. If you’ll get over and work with me, I’ll help you. I’ll show you how. I’m not saying I got all the power. If I had, I’d sure use it. But if it’s a fact the more energy you give me, the more you believe in me, the more I can do the work. It’s the mystery of supply. But people don’t give me much to work with. They sleep. Young people sleeping up and down the aisles. (Pause) They don’t care enough about old people that are stupefied. And I don’t mean old people in years. Some of my own people don’t care enough to stay awake. I care about you. I want you free. (Pause) I don’t want you lost at that final day, when you pray and find out that it won’t do you any good, that the Kingdom of Heaven is within. The Word is in you. The only Christ that you’re going to see is the Christ in you. That’s your hope of glory. And if you don’t get a hold of it, the Man’s gonna come and gonna take us away, like the Jews in Germany, who thought they were Chosen People. He’s gonna run ’em in, gonna run you in, and they’re– you’re gonna die in the same gas chambers. They got plans. I got ’em laying up there, on my desk, that we got, because of some friend in government. (Pause) We got (Pause) something to consider. There’s a plan already laid aside to put you in gas chambers. It’s called King Alfred Plan. (Pause) Oh yeah. Beautiful. People don’t want to think. I mean, they don’t want to think. This is the last trip I’m gonna take, I was happy for a minute, because I got free. But then I get the bluntness. I get the bluntness. People still not thinking. They’ll be people before I’m finished tonight who’ll say, when I go down the aisle, pray for me, Brother Jones. They’ll do it. [They’ll] Say, Lord bless you, Brother Jones. Lord means, “owner of slaves.” Lord. You got– you can’t have a lord, unless you got some serfs. Gotta have slaves in order to have a lord. And there’ll be somebody who’ll say, Lord– But they got us brainwashed, baby. [I’m] Tellin’ you, you don’t have to worry about honky, you don’t have to worry about the man, you don’t have to worry about (unintelligible word– Old Fay?), ’cause we’re going to go by and by, you got shoes, I got shoes, and all God’s children got shoes. But where are they gonna give you the damn shoes? When you get to heaven. (Pause) No food till you get to heaven. No shoes till you get to heaven. And next Sunday, our foolish people will be open to water, they’ll give them a little water there, pull down the (stumbles over words) plastic, and open the windows, let the breeze sweep across there, and that’ll take care of that sweat. (Pause) The– the pool– pull that curtain back, off the pool, get it ready. ‘Cause I’m gonna take a swim, I don’t know whether anybody can get baptized, I don’t give a damn if you do or not, I’m gonna take a swim.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: It’s good to be here. (Pause) You see the great danger about this kind of thing is, that I demystify – shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh – please don’t get racket. Some people’ll go back and they’ll starve, or they’ll go back and they’ll be old and lonely, nobody’ll take care of ’em, nobody’ll take them in. (Pause) Ushers, get around with your envelopes. You know what to do. (Pause) Now, you’ve heard it, what I’m going to say. We’re investing in your own food. Shh! (Unintelligible word– night?) So move kinda slowly. I might still change your mind. She’s on the edge. She’s been brainwashed by (unintelligible word– Old Fay?), Mickey Mouse’s Bible, and she’s on the edge. (Cries out) Will you help? (Commanding) Sit down. Rest of you, sit down. Rest of you, sit down. You’re going over there– you kids have been good. Sit down. You kids don’t need it. All you kids know it. You wanna know what keeps those kids from smokin’ and drinkin’? ‘Cause they believe I’m God? Because I’m what?

Unintelligible reply

Jones: That’s why we don’t smoke or drink. They gave up on that God, they came– they came– they came here– they came here with their minds damaged from drugs, they came here in prison, unfair sentences, judges, racist judges, that said I’m gonna put you away because you’re a Negro, or because you’re poor. And I got down there and stopped it. That’s why they’re here. So they’re a good, clean bunch. You ought to love– you say, religion made ’em clean. No, religion didn’t make ’em clean, Jim Jones made them clean.

Congregation: Cheers

Jones: Your religion can’t get that many young people in church anymore. We do it. You know where a lot of ’em are tonight? Out making these magazines, to try to win some of these people out of religion in the real Christian revolution, Christian freedom. They all want to work all night, that’s why they’re not here. Busload of ’em out, puttin’ things together. Hah! (Tiches) You get church people to do that? (Dismissive tone) No, no, you won’t get ’em to do that. (Pause) (Normal tone) Okay. Now, the envelopes are here. You want food, or on–

Tape edit

Jones: Got a question? (Pause) How many have ever– How many of you can lift a hand and say they’ve questioned why God would make people to worship him? (Pause) Never questioned that in your mind? (Pause) How many have ever questioned why God up in the sky would make people when he was alone, and coulda stayed alone, to worship him? You ever question that? (Amazed) Look at the hands that don’t question it. Never questioned it, huh? (Pause) I’m the first one that made you think– I can’t believe that. (More insistent) How many ever questioned why there’d be a God, like the churches say, up there that would make people just to worship him? (Pause) Never have, huh? (Pause) I– I’m making myself clear? (Speaks quickly) At least I’ve got (unintelligible phrase) thirty of the folk in here that sayin’ that I’m making myself clear, ’cause I just– I’m just takin’ the examination of myself anyway, that’s why I’m doing that. I knew anyway, I want to prove it to the rest of you. (Pause) (Calls out) I said, how many of you have ever questioned the stuff you’ve been taught, that there was a God up there, who made people, He was so all-fired good, He made people because He was lonely, and He made a devil that could sin, because He wanted to give people a choice? You understand what I’m sayin’? How many have ever had that question come to your mind? How many have ever questioned it? (Pause) Well, young man, I’d think you’d question such a thing as that, you’ve never questioned that? (Pause) Young as you are? I’d think you are– ‘course, maybe you being white and never suffering as much as some blacks have, but these blacks have. And they’ve been down on the knees, scrapin’ the floors – some poor whites have, too, I can look at you – scrapin’ the floors or sittin’ on the outdoor toilets, or carryin’ the water, like I used to. Saw my grandfather (unintelligible phrase– “when I was”?) five, good man, good man, laid there. Cross the way was Millionaire Street. H.L. Miller live on – Millionaire Street, that day he had a– some kind of a carbuckle [carbuncle]. You’re hearin’ what I’m sayin’? (Bitter) I’m glad I have these experiences, though. I’m glad. (Calls out) H.L. Miller called Dr. Parker, and Dr. Parker come and take care of the carbuckle. Grandpa– (Pause) They sent me with a note. Grandpa’s kidneys had stopped. (Pause) And Dr. Parker says, I haven’t got time. While my grandpa was dying, Dr. Parker was over on Millionaire Street, takin’ care of a carbuckle.

(Angry) That’s your damn system. That’s your damn God you had. That’s your damn religion you got, that’s taught you that– and that’s still perpetuated by religion. Still perpetuated by it. The good shall have crowns, and you’ll have more jewels in your crowns, you’ll have so many cabins on a mountain. What kind of religion is that? I’d be ashamed to be a part of it. I don’t want no crowns. I don’t want no jewels. (Cries out) I want to see babies stop starvin’, I want to see babies stop dyin’. I want to see mothers (Pause) (Normal tone) (Intense tone) stop, like these mothers up here, like this one sittin’ here that was blind and couldn’t see, I want to see them stop having to be lonely in their old years, like this precious one that sings and blesses me so, that was blind and couldn’t see and had a sore on her leg that nobody healed for 15 years. Good God. Good God. (Pause) I want to see a stop to that. (Bitter) What kind of God you got, you say in the sky, if He’s got all power, He’s got no power but you. You’re His hands, you’re His feet. (Pause) No God in the world but in me and in you. That’s why you need to stay around me, learn how to be God. Some of you needed to stay around because we need each other. Every body, every cell supplies the other cells. The head needs the l– leg, and the leg needs the knee joint, and toenail needs the toe. (Pause) Hmm? Move? (Sound of moving mike) Mmm– good. (Pause) Take your offering. (Pause) I can tell you, this offering’ll be about half what it normally is. (Pause) ‘Cause that’s how people are. (Cries out) Scare ’em, and they’ll give you. Tell ’em to help hungry people, they won’t give you a dime. (Pause) (Off mike) Huh? (Pause) No, no, that’s right. (Back on) But scare their– scare ’em, say– well, what makes you– look at this– this precious woman, her senior years, she’s young heart, she says, help me– hell, you really know where it’s at, dear. I’m talkin’ to you.

Voice: Me?

Jones: Yeah, you know where it’s at. (Pause) You know where it’s at. She not afraid to question. (Pause) (Blows nose) Hmm. (Pause) (Sighs) (Conversational tone) Want to get healed? (Pause) Do you? (Pause) Then you want to get healed so you can go out of here. (Pause) Well, I’ll tell you, when I– when I take up the offering, people who’ve not one to help others, like Mr. Griffith, he said no, he’s dead. Last week he died, he wouldn’t let anybody help– He said, this preacher, he’s too dirty-mouthed, always talks about uh, social gospel, helping others, wouldn’t let his wife give, he’s dead. (Pause) Mrs. Henry’ll be coming in tonight. She said, I gotta go see my kin. I begged her last Sunday week, [I] said, don’t go, Mrs. Henry. You need my protection. You got no business on Los Angeles streets. Ain’t it true, Birdie?

Birdie: That’s right?

Jones: Is it true, Mike?

Mike: Yeah.

Jones: I said, don’t go. (Pause) I said, I can’t– I can’t help your comings and goings. You’ll be in trouble if you go out on the street, but– My loved ones, I want to see ’em. (Pause) I said, you do, you’ll have a catastrophe. ‘Cause I can see the future, you see. I don’t bring catastrophe, I don’t bring any catastrophe on you, don’t worry about it. (Pause) I love my enemies, (Pause) better than anybody I know anyway, (Pause) ’cause I’ve had peoples right in here, that once betrayed me that found uh– their way and learned they were wrong, and I took ’em back and treated ’em just like a long-lost brother or a long-lost son or daughter. And I was in South America, feedin’ babies, hungry, starvin’ babies, and people forgot I existed. I built the church and paid for it, every penny myself, and paid for that organ. And I went away just for two years, and people forgot I existed. And I had my adopted babies, and I had my wife and 200 babies to feed, and nobody in this church sent me a dollar. (Pause) And I’m glad for it. (Pause) Taught me something. Taught me how to be God. Not depend upon people who clap for you. Not depend upon people to support you. To be God-good, be socialist because it’s just good to be a socialist, just good to be right, just good to be nice. I’m glad for it. Don’t ever feel bad. The one of– ones of you who betrayed me, don’t feel bad. You taught me the lessons I wanted to learn. All I ask is, don’t ever do to another what you did to me. (tape tone shift; edit?) ‘Cause while I was down there, I had to do some things I never wanted to have to do. ‘Cause babies were starvin’, and I had to do– make choices. Married one woman. That’s a good feelin’, you know, to grow– when you’re a kid, and I never had any religion, I– as I said, I put cow manure in a Bible, and put my urine in a Catholic uh, holy water, but I had enough goodness in me, when I started lookin’ at me and quit prayin’, that I wouldn’t get any girl pregnant. I knew that I could, and I wouldn’t do that. So I didn’t want to go out and do anything to any young girl. So I never had any relations till I got married. Married one woman. Never knew a girl. Married one woman. The first night I had sex was the night I was with my wife, the first night of marriage. Thirteen years I lived that way. (Pause) And it wasn’t because I didn’t have sexual need, because my wife– she’ll put up with plenty, it was usually sex every night. But it wasn’t something I forced on her. She said that she liked it, and we did it. Then at the end of 13 years, I had to go to Brazil. I’ve learned since then though that women don’t really want that, they want tender loving care. They want companionship, they want warmth. (Pause) My wife says, well, it’s meaningful to me, because it’s you. She said I wouldn’t have sex with another human being for anything, because it’s just you. It’s feeling. It’s what you stand for. She said, it’s communion with goodness. I’m saying what you’ve heard her say, publicly. ‘Cause she was the first one to discuss sex. I wasn’t the first one to do it. (Pause) I went down to South America, (Pause) and I had 200 babies cryin’. Starvin’.

(Pause) And I wrote home, and nobody sent me a dime. And I couldn’t speak the language. ‘Cause I’d tired of my church not doing enough for people. My church was griping because we fed the hungry. We fixed cabbage and beans, sometimes, ’cause we couldn’t get any more money. I’d beat myself over the rows to get every bit of the money, and how by God was Archie Ijames to do the– the cookin’ or Rheaviana Beam. She sits back there. And they’d gripe every time the– the– the building would smell a little. Gripe every time. So they kicked the Beams out, Beams went with me. Archie was almost crucified. (Pause) I mean, they’ve nailed him to the wall. (Pause) Mary Tschetter couldn’t handle it alone – about six of ’em – I don’t know, I can’t– (stumbles over words) Even Edie in those days, Edith Cordell didn’t understand my teachings enough, she drifted back to that ol’ Pentecostal Church, I never did finish that ser– sermon. He– I found her– her deeds and saved her life. He had s– He had them, and we– I told this doctor to act like he knew it, because I– he found I had a superhuman gift. He said, I believe in it, because I’ve seen it work, so he called and said, we know you got them– where you got them, bring them, and they got the police to accompany them, and those Pentecostals brought all the things they stole from her – is it true? – and lay ’em right in on my church, come right up to my altar and laid them there, so we wouldn’t prosecute them. (Contemptuous exclamation) Dirty devils. (Tich) I’ve seen more dirt out of religion, every church in my town, (Pause) my hometown, Indiana– Indianapolis, every Holiness church, one time or another, their preacher’d run off with some woman or rape some child or, like that big Capital Avenue church, come into our nursing home with one of their older women– one of their younger women who was a moron, weighed 450 pounds, and raped her and got her pregnant. (Pause) Took her out, supposedly to prayer meeting, and got her pregnant. (Pause) Bac– Bacchus or something, his name. Church, you’ve been had. Head of the Baptist Federation, Dr. George Bedford, tried to get two of my young girls to go to the bed with him. We weren’t there one meeting, till he had his ol’ lecherous, dirty mind at work. (Pause) And you think I’m too dirty. Some of you right now, my mouth, too dirty for you. Pssh. (Pause) If you ever get just as good as I am, this world’ll be a nice place to live in.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: The woman that just said wonderful, ‘s religion messed her up, she was an alcoholic and even a– she was an informer. Now she’s one of the biggest helpers I know. Takes in people– last night, wanted to take in a boy she didn’t even know, who was in trouble, in the jail, when she came beatin’ on that door, religion had messed her up and she was an alcoholic, prostitute and everything else. Religion didn’t save you, did it? What saved you?

Woman in crowd: (Soft) You did– (rest of sentence unintelligible). Wonderful. Thank you.

Jones: (Quiet tone) Yeah. Beautiful. No more– No more who– whoring around, no more drinkin’, don’t drink at all anymore. Sweet. I want to say–

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Yes, clap for her. (Pause) Shh. All right. All right. (Pause) (Claps hands rhythmically for several seconds) When I was down there, I learned how to live. I learned how to live. I couldn’t hustle anybody else. I’d never sell a human body. I wouldn’t defraud anybody, I wouldn’t steal from anybody, unless it’d be like Robin Hood. So when we saw no more food to feed babies, my wife and I said, we’re going to have to hobnob a little bit. We’re going to have to hobnob. And we got together and said, these 200 babies are worth our lives. [We] Say, whoever gets the opportunity to do anything for money, that won’t hurt anybody, except the rich, gonna do it. (Pause) So I got invited to an ambassador’s dinner, because the woman had her eyes on me. (Pause) And I’d never known one woman but my wife. (Pause) I shouldn’t give you this kind of stuff.

Congregation: (Scattered) That’s right.

One woman: –have to hear what you’ve done.

Jones: That’s good, but they use it against me, that’s what I meant.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: But you’re right, they need to hear it. (Pause) So the woman showed interest, and little hearts kept coming before me, and little hungry babies kept c– being heard in my ears. (Pause) (Sighs) I’d seen them die on the mountainside. I don’t want to get into it, because I’ll cry, and I don’t want to cry. I think crying is no gain. It’s no gain. It won’t help with hungry child. (Pause) (Catches breath) Get on with it. (Pause) I ended up, saying, well, if you want to go to bed that bad, how many hungry babies will you feed? (Pause) And I found out she was pretty rich, money was pretty easy with her. She said, I’ll give $5000. Fine, and when it got through dickering, I said, you won’t give it to me, but you’ll take it to the orphanage with me. (Pause) So I spent a night with that woman, I’da rather– you talk about dying on a cross, you say your Jesus died on a cross, and I know he did. I was there. It wasn’t nothin’ like that. That was the worst death I know. I’ve never liked the rich and proud and the bigoted, the conceited. (Pause) And I got baptized that night. I lost my virtue for others. (Pause) The end of the long night– how’s the s– hypodermics going, Marceline, you getting the people?

Marceline: We’ve run out of– (Too quiet) –we’d like to know how many have not gotten until we get more–

Jones: How many have not yet– that are going on the trip that needs the immunization. Put your hands– One–

Marceline: Now this is just those that are not going to get– anyone that’s going to Mexico–

Jones: Anyone who going to Mexico or uh– but not to Seattle. (Counts from one to 26) ‘Bout 33. (Clears throat) Or 30– I– I’d be safe for you to get 40.

Other voices too soft.

Jones: What is it? (Pause) What? (Pause) (unintelligible) out washing uniforms. Now that’s a good socialist. While we sit in here, eat, kids washing uniforms, instead of drinkin’ or carousin’ around. Out puttin’ magazines together to get people free. Good kids.


Jones: 50. 50.

Marceline: Do you know whether there’s anybody up in Seattle or Mexico who–

Jones: I don’t know a thing– I don’t know of anything (unintelligible word) Seattle to Mexico.

Marceline: –they found 50 people–

Jones: They’ll let to have somebody– someone call Seattle to see if there’s anybody, because, we’ll have to have a nurse take some– we better take some, just in case up there.

Voice too soft

Jones: (off mike) They don’t have their own amenities? (Pause) Well, check the doctor, check with the doctor. (unintelligible word) I think– I think you’ll be safe. (Pause) (mike back on; tape edit) (Quiet) –this woman there too, she just like me, she’d never known any man, never has but me. That’s my companion, you that know her, I’m sure most of you do. (Pause) So we made that pact, that whoever–

Congregation: Applause

Jones: –and uh, living a straight life was important to her, but she was willing to be the one if it was her and me if it was with me. So the next day, I took that mess of a woman, with her white– I never will forget her white skirt, she had a white skirt. (Disgusted) Pleated. Clean. She was so dirty. I took her down to that ghetto. She wanted to leave me ’bout three blocks before, and says, you take the money. I said no, ma’am, part of the bargain is, that your money doesn’t go to my hands, it goes to these people. (Pause) I took her in that orphanage, and little children run up to her, wantin’ love, and she pulled that white dress away from them, (Pause) like she was steppin’ through cow manure. She was too good. But life had given her the opportunity to buy a man she wanted for $5000 for all night. (Pause) (Emotional) That’s what’s made your Father God. (Clears throat) (Pause) I’ve been through the mill. (Pause) (Sighs) And I hope that none of you have to do what I’ve had to do. (Pause) Take your hands, please. (Pause)

Organ plays for balance of service

Jones: That’s all I can tell about it tonight. I’m sorry, it’s just too much to go through again. (Pause) (Sighs) (Emotional) It’s a tough job, being God. It’s a tough job. (Pause) Nobody’d ever help me be God. ‘Cause that’s all I could do to feed those babies, I begged you people to send me money, and you didn’t send me any. I begged you to send it to the orphanage, and you didn’t send it. I said, please feed hungry babies, and you didn’t feed them. (Weepy) And I was alone. There nothin’ but me. (Pause) (Normal tone) So I fed ’em. (Pause) (Blows nose)

Voice in congregation too far away

Jones: Oh, dear God, I can’t.

Voice: No, no, I’m telling you– (unintelligible end of sentence)

Jones: All right, thank you, thank you. (Pause) Thank you, thank you. (Pause) I’m not– I’m not worryin’ over me, because I’m– I have died, you see. I don’t live any longer. That’s the key to being God. I have no ambitions, I’ve seen all of life I wish to see. (Pause) There’s no hidden secrets that it holds, any allurement for me. (Weepy) All I want to see is people to stop sufferin’, that there be no more war, no more pain, no more bigotry, no more death. (Pause) I hated to see death. I saw my granddaddy die, and I prayed, and Dr. Parker was over on Millionaire Street – that’s the name of the street in Lynn, Indiana, Millionaire Street. (Emotional) And Granddad died, choking on his own poisons, for eight hours without a pill. The only s– satisfaction I had when I cursed God. And he smiled at me, the moment I cursed God, Granddaddy smiled at me. I said, there nobody up there that would let anybody die like he died. (Pause) (Whispers) Nobody. (Emotional) And I quit begging. Wasn’t anybody to pray to. (Pause) They made me God, caused me to become your God. I stopped praying, and I started working. And because I started working, hundreds are now free. (Pause) (Normal tone) But if you would do what I am, if you care like I cared, we could do so much more. (Pause) (Voice gradually returns to normal) If you quit depending upon me and make me a substitute for the Skygod, and would just be as human as I am – because I’m just a human being that’s studied, studied to show myself approved, rightly dividing what? The Word of Truth. That’s all you’re ever supposed to do, that’s the true Scriptures. King James didn’t get all the truth out. So how do you know what’s true and what’s error. Because I am pure mind. Logos, the word, means pure mind. My mind’s pure. (Pause) My mind is pure and holy as the driven snow.

Congregation: Scattered Cries

One woman: You know we love you. Why would you talk like that, when you know we love you? We love you as God Almighty–

Jones: Child, don’t– don’t do– (stumbles over words) You don’t know more than God knows. I’m not questioning–

Woman: (unintelligible)

Jones: I’m not questioning–

Woman: –to do, Father?

Jones: You’re– you’re– Nothing from you.

Woman: Yes, please.

Jones: Nothing from you, darling. You’re just one of my senior children, and then you work very nicely in the kitchen of your home, and take care of the home. Nothing from you. I’m not calling for you. See, it’s gettin’ to an older person’s heart, and I want to free that to you. I’m not talking to my older ones. You weren’t there. You didn’t betray me. You weren’t there. You didn’t do anything to betray me. So you don’t worry. I’m talkin’ to some of these young (Pause) Aunt Janes and Uncle Toms. I’m talkin’ to the ones who– oh– she’s– she’s up there past her three score and ten years, (Emotional) and she says, “What can I do, Father?” She heard me. She heard me, and it hurts her. And I don’t want her hurt, ’cause there nothin’ more she can do. (Pause) And there nothin’ a lot of you can do in this room. You’re workin’ yourselves as hard as you can. But there’s some new ones here, that you’re in– you’re in– you’re in and out on Wednesday night, and then you’re in those churches on Sunday. (Pause) (Weepy) You can help the heart of God. Don’t go back to those lying churches. (Voice breaks) Don’t go back to them. Don’t go back and lie– and be lied to anymore. (Pause) Come out from amongst the unclean thing. Be with separate people. Become the body of God. It is written, you are the temples of the Holy Ghost. That means the Temples of God are good, the Temples of Socialism. (Pause) (Normal tone) (Clears throat) I didn’t want to cry, and this is the effect of crying, it causes others to feel sorry. That’s why I never cry. You never see me cry. (Sniffs) ‘Cause it only angrivates– aggravates and hurts others. (Pause) And I’m crying over you, really, not me. I’m crying over the circumstances. (Sniffs) I’m crying, because here the greatest healer, and the greatest father-lover – and that’s what I mean, not romantic, sexual lover – but the greatest father, the greatest humanitarian, the kindest human being that’s ever walked in our day, only has a handful of people by comparison to what he should have. And many of you are here tonight– How many are here to be baptized, how many came to be baptized, how many came to be baptized? (Pause) But some of you are my good followers, it’s good, and some of you came to be baptized. ‘Cause it’s bigger than usual, isn’t it? Our two minister sisters remember last Wednesday, it wasn’t this big. (Pause) You came to have something done for you, (Pause) and I am the entire reverse of that. I’ve lost my life that you might live. I gave up my life, that you could live.

One voice: Thank you, Father.

Jones: That’s how you become what I am. Quit seeking and start giving. Thank you.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: No, no, no, please. Please. I have no mood. (Pause) Our hands clasped, it’s very late, very late. (Pause) (Sniffs) (Long pause) Anyone in the city that’s had anyone– in Oakland that’s had anyone on 35th Street– that’s had anyone– loved one go to Europe recently? France? See me at the end of the meeting. I’m not going to– just– just see me at the end of the meeting. You know I know things about your life that no one knows. (Pause) (Clears throat) Does anyone know a Fannie Wilson, (Pause) Louisiana? (Pause) Hmm?

Voice too soft.

Jones: Stand up. You’re a stranger to me, and I wish to speak something, (unintelligible word) had some help. (Pause) Rosie? I don’t know you.

Rosie: (Unintelligible word)

Jones: I don’t know you personally, do I?

Rosie: No sir.

Jones: You’re from Chatham– Chatham, Louisiana.

Rosie: That’s right.

Jones: Country there. You’re a Methodist.

Rosie: Yes sir.

Jones: I don’t know you, but yet I do know you. Because I’m back in my office.

Rosie: (Unintelligible word)

Jones: I’m in the office of the only God there is. (Low, unintelligible evocation). Why is Fannie to you?

Rosie: My sister-in-law.

Jones: I see. Ardiss is your–

Rosie: Brother–

Jones: –brother–

Rosie: Yes, sir.

Jones: You’ve got a problem of blood pressure and sugar, just like your sister-in-law has a problem with sugar. Your sister-in-law’s been in the hospital–

Rosie: Yes, sir.

Jones: –some year ago, I ta– I think. Her doctor is Dr. Robinson.

Rosie: That’s right.

Jones: I’ve never been to Louisiana in my life.

Rosie: Sure enough.

Jones: No, that’s sure enough. I love to hear that. Sure enough.

Rosie: (Laughs)

Jones: Well, it’s sure enough, I’m going to stop the blood pressure and the diabetes that would’ve cause you to have a stroke. The pressure you’ve had in your head, that would’ve caused you to have a stroke, I’m gonna take it away, right now, because I care.

Rosie: Thank– thank you.

Slapping sound

Jones: It’s gone.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Pause) Thank you. A nurse’ll come back now with something privately to tell you. (Pause) Nurses are all involved over there giving immunizations, are they? (Pause) I have a registered nurse there. Come here. Thank you, Janet. (Pause) Some things you’ll have to do following diet, child. Hands clasped. (Pause) (Tape edit) –will tell you some things of which you’ll verify, and she’ll tell you what you’re going to say, because I am God. Socialism. Hands clasped. (Pause) Neva Sly or Bonnie Beck, please, needed in the clinic, in the senior citizen– or in the office home– the office (unintelligible word) here in the church. (Pause) We have equal allowances for our babies here. We want every child to have the equal share. How many will give– And I think, in the five years, we’ve been that successful. Never see a casket in this building. (Pause) To have conducted one funeral in that time. Those who go out and do evil, the reverse is true. Those who won’t help me help others, somethin’ happens to you, inside you that causes difficulty. So I would suggest, if the ushers come around with the plates again, that a few of you take thought of your conscience. But how many of the family – I’m just talking to the family now – will give an extra dollar to help with the children’s allowance? ‘Cause I give all the children at the end of this meeting whatever the hour– (Cough; tape edit?) –override your thoughts and come back. I have things to do for you. Your first time here. And it takes an understanding of truth. When you understand that I am the truth of the truth will set you free. Same time to Mrs. Anderson. (Pause) Same thing to Dolly Myers. Same thing to a Fannie Harris. I don’t usually operate this way, but I’ve got to move quickly. [You] Say, I want to get healed (unintelligible word) go back to my old church. No, you can’t get healed from me, and go back to your old church. Once you get healed from me, you’re supposed to stay healed in mind and body. (Pause) I hope Steve Morrow will stay in this atmosphere. It will literally– ly– save your life. (Pause) On down the line. (Pause) Same, if your name is Parker. Return. I’m making little notes that I must concentrate about. Not pray. Meditate. Concentrate. (Pause) Override doubts, all of you, that I mention your names like this to return. Niles. (Pause) Peterson. (Pause) Gray. (Pause) Bailey. (Pause) Cherry. Paulie. (Pause) (Unintelligible word) true. (Pause) Some others I’d like to say to you, but you’ve got to come by faith. Couple of ladies back there, I need to say something to, but Spirit’s (unintelligible word; “poking”?) at me, they’re capable of great things. You don’t have to prode [prod] them to truth, so that’s a compliment. That’s a compliment. I don’t have to say anything to you. I’m proding some, because that’s where we are. (Pause) Mrs. Bowen, your first time. It’s important that you return. Deeply, deeply, deeply important. (Pause) Hands clasped. (Pause) (Sings softly) “I promised–” No. “I know you’re the strength of my vow. And if I have made this endeavor–”

Congregation sings.

Jones: Which child in here has had gingivitis? (Pause) October, last year, gingivitis. I think that’s the name. Gingivitis. Who’s has a child in here that’s had this treatment? Gingivitis. (Pause) Hmm. (Pause) Antonio– Who– who– whose is this– whose child, Antonio? (Pause) Who knows of such a child, Antonio? Okay. Hold it– hold it there. And see me with it af– after. Hands clasped. (Pause) “–Love you forever, be (unintelligible word) and true.” Usually I go into some detail. I’m not going into a lot of detail tonight. It’s not necessary. Wouldn’t make any difference anyway. Ones that believe me, gonna believe me. The ones that don’t, won’t. You’ve been brainwashed that the devil can do good. Jesus said in the Bible, “Impossible.” They called him the Prince of Devils. They called Jesus, Beelzebub. The Prince of Devils. He said, devils can’t cast out devils. Devils don’t heal. But that’s what you’ll go away believin’. You got an answer for everything, ’cause they’ve washed your brain. You can call good evil, and evil good. (Pause) Ruby Dean. Someone from, Richmond, I believe. Ruby Dean?

Voice too soft.

Jones: What?

Voice too soft.

Jones: Could be.

Voice too soft.

Jones: Well, who is Ruby?

Voice too soft.

Jones: Hold on here, hold on here. (Pause) Just try to think– I think I’ve got uh, two– two– I’ve got two here. Back to you, Brother, on 21st Street. Hands clasped. There some things that needs to be done. (Pause) What contact with 161 Fifth Street? (Pause)

Man: I have a contact at four sixty-one.

Jones: One– uh, four sixty-one Fifth?

Man: Yes.

Jones: (Pause) Uh, Denice Williams. Who is Denice Williams?

Man: Denice Williams? I don’t know.

Jones: Some contact here that I– Let’s see. Uh, in your home, I’m gonna– I’m gettin’ a lot of complex things, because I’m really not gettin’– I have to put my mind into this thing, and I’m not getting in there as much, because I got some heavy things on me. I’ve preached the Truth, and that creates a lot of aggravation. I’ve got to put out more energy to override that aggravation. (Pause) Do you have a beige phone?

Man: Yes, I do.

Jones: I don’t know you. I’ve never been in your home. Correct?

Man: Right.

Jones: A Riviera car?

Man: Yes.

Jones: Top black, and bottom is gold.

Man: Yes.

Jones: Yeah, I– I know. Sure, I know, we know, we know. (Pause) Can I suggest that you eat no more Del Monte tomato sauce with onions? Don’t ever use Shasta Cherry Cola. Understand what I’m saying?

Man: Yes.

Jones: You eat a lot of ground round meat.

Man: Yes.

Jones: Don’t do that. I’ll talk to the nurse, how we’ll begin the great healing in your body. A nurse will come up– I’ll tell her to come back, and she’ll tell you some things privately. Thank you.

Man: Thank you, Jim.

Jones: Thank you.

Congregation: Applause

(Pause) (Tape edit, off for unknown time, although organ still playing)

Jones: She will also talk to you about things that will come out to you supernaturally as (unintelligible word) comes down to you. Hands clasped, please. (Tape break-up, then silence for several minutes)

Part 2

Jones: I would like to ask your indulgence. We are a people preparing ourselves for two iconoclastic contingencies, for two very real prophecies. One doesn’t have to be a prophet to discern the times, when the Supreme Court this week reinforces segregation and puts national approval, that it’s perfectly all right to have organizations that are segregated to people and discriminate against people on the basis of the color of their skin. I don’t think that I have to remind you of the uncertainties of the times. But it is necessary. I notice some of you feel the freedom to move about and want to go outside. We cannot permit you to do so. For your security, we have arranged a certain procedure. We’re not expecting a thing to happen, but we have arranged a certain procedure here which we conduct people across to the clinic, and we would not like anyone to interfere. We notice that many who are in our nineties up here, such as Ever [Rejoicing] who cooks every day, and makes some of that pie you’re eating, they’re 93, she’s able to sit through a service entirely. Some of you are younger, or you’re supposed to be younger, you– you are not able to sit 20 minutes, or 30. So it’s something to consider. We have people who are able to do this in their eighties and nineties, and as you know, it’s supposedly– physiologically it becomes more difficult to retain one’s (Pause) voiding, to retain their– their liquid, their urine. It’s more difficult as one gets older. But here it seems to be the case that some of you who are younger are really older mentally than those who are supposedly in more advanced years. So we would appreciate very much if you would follow our discipline. In the first place, we offer a great deal of protections. We give shots, immunizations. We give health examinations. We have arranged for medical people to come and take these usual things that cost you many many hundreds of dollars. We arrange for the education of our youth. Sixty-some are in the process of an advanced education. I uh, had made it a– apparent observation that some should be seated in the front, and I notice that they are not keeping that. I have not changed my opinion one iotum [iota], because you seemed asleep when you get back there. (Pause) Now, I shall call your name, if you don’t know your name. (Pause) We are going to have a disciplined house. We do not mind your being with us, if you wish to cooperate, but we know the day, the hour, the minute, the year when there’ll be a holocaust coming upon this land due to the aggrandizing capitalistic spirit and the error of man’s judgment in electronic calculations. We know the time. And every prophecy that’s been spoken’s come exactly to pass. We have the place of refuge deep in the earth that was told to us 3000 miles before we got here, and no one else (Pause) has ever found it, and no one will find it, because it was meant for us. We’ve been in it. Members of this church, several women and men and children have been in it. (Pause) And we’re going to be able to get down into that quarters, for whatever reason. (Pause) We know we’ll have to get down there for an atomic holocaust. We had some film about this last evening. We keep pushing it, you see. We bombed the bridges adjacent to China today. China warned us that her national security’s at threat. We have no– we have no consideration. We feel that God’s on our side. That’s the greatest danger of all, is this euphoria that God, this Skygod is on our side, so we continue to push our luck. (Pause) And the error of miscalculation is so (Pause) so easy. You (unintelligible phrase– “won’t have to”?) take care of this.

(Pause) The error of miscalculation is very easy. We know the young man that was in the– the Polaris submarine, and left his advancement, when he could’ve been a high officer. He saw a near-error, due to a neurotic captain of the submarine. They go through an assimilated test each month in those Polaris submarines, just like it was war. Prep– It was– Preparation to sending those 16 missiles that could destroy– those 16 missiles alone could destroy half of the Soviet population, wherever they’re aimed now, Soviet or Chinese population. And on that particular occasion, there was a scuffle, and if it hadn’t been for sheer accident, that their mechanism wasn’t functioning, all those Polaris missiles would have gone. And he retired, because they go through– everyone has to do their thing in the Polaris submarine, pushing their buttons, making their particular movements and (Pause) turning certain keys. But finally, they– the one last (Pause) mechanism is the turning of the key by the captain. And if he’s insane, he can turn the key, and all will go. But they have to practice that month after month. Every month, they have this simulated case, as we heard with our own ears. They go through that month after month, preparing for the launching of all 16. And if the captain turns his, there’s no way to cause a Polaris missile to stop. American capitalism believes in not uh– worrying about human life, but specializing in overkill. So less than a third of our missiles have any equipment whatsoever to be stopped, once in flight. And whatever, if you stop a missile in flight, you still have strotium [strontium]-90 poured out wherever it goes, as we saw in Spain, when those four bombs dropped on the Spanish dictatorship, the fascist nation there, and as I said, it’s quite interesting to know that the fascists who have been ruled by [Francisco] Franco, a– a racist, a anti-Semite, a– a heathen, the fascist have no really uh, communications to inform them what’s going on, because the press is entirely controlled by the state. But they are more enlightened than we are, because the Spanish people rose up in arms and said, get your debris out of here. We had to take tons– into the thousands of tons– some of you people– I– you’re no follower of mine, I never see you listening one minute. You wander around and move about, you talk around. You no follower of mine. Don’t let me– I just want you to understand, I know my followers. Just because you’re in this room, doesn’t make– make you a follower. And I don– I’m not seeking followers. I’m seeking comrades. But you have to learn to follow before you can ever lead.

(Pause) You think I’m not with you. Don’t– don’t be so mistaken. Now– when you heard me call this woman out, and heal her intimately, detail by detail, and then someone got in the way of the aura that I was sending to her, and I even named that woman, said, get out of the way. Who was a person that’s not in a– familiar to me. So don’t think I’m not aware of you. I– ware– aware your games, I way you c– the way you try to con me, and you think you can fool me, and I won’t say a word. I just won’t bring you up one night. (Pause) See, you can just sit here and go on, but when the caravan gets ready, there’ll be an– there’s a– there’s already an asterisk by your name, don’t call them. Now you can get that asterisk removed, but some of you are getting about two beside your name. (Pause) I don’t bother to detail every little problem of anarchy. I don’t appreciate anarchy. Last night, we saw thousands of babies that are dying, out there on that poster is My Lai, due to anarchist in this country that want to do their own thing. I want to uh, uh, get in a movement of free love, I want to express myself. (Emphatic voice rising to anger) By God, it is time that some people got together and united and were willing to subordinate themselves one to another, if we’re going to stop poverty, war, and mass genocide, we’ve got no room for people to do their own thing anytime they please. We need some organization, and we need some discipline, and it’s high time that you that think you’re free, going out doing your thing, you’re just an anarchist, and you’re just as much a part of the problem as the warfare state, the military-industrial complex that’s creating the napalm bombing the children. While you’re out smoking your weed and doing your thing, (Pause) people are dying. So why don’t you yield yourself. I’m an individualist, just like everyone else. I don’t like organization. I was much happier today, down working with the animals, taking out uh, uh, maggots out of the ears of a little dog was brought to me just before service, or working with one of the patients, taking the bower– the uh, eliminating the excreta out of their bowels that was compacted that– she was so sick. That’s my cup of tea. I’m uh, a person of practical administration. I’m a tactical person. I’m a revolutionary, in a sense that I like to be a doer, not a talker, and I don’t like to be around people that just talk and listen. I’m an activist. And so I’m much happier uh, l– taking the uh, impaction out of that patient’s bowels and uh, taking those maggots out of the ears of the little animal. So I endure this. (Pause) So some of the rest of you are going to have to endure it. This is not my cup of tea. But if we are able to do anything to save little children, or to (stumbles over words) a organization of some kind of energy level of any commitment whatsoever, we’re going to have to get ourselves together, submit ourselves one to another, become our neighbor and our brother’s keeper, and get a hold of this anarchy. I have more respect for a capitalist than I do an anarchist. (Pause) Lot of people come in here– you come in here, anarchist. You’re gonna do your thing. You’re gonna– no matter who it hurts. You get arrogant with the ushers, because they won’t let you do what you please, as one did a while ago. You get arrogant, because they won’t let you go out all over this grounds. We’ve got reason for rules, and if you had any kind of conscientiousness, you would know that people like us are a threat to the entire system, and there are people that would like to shoot you, and we ought to let you just walk, but in my personal presence, no harm can come to you. They’ve tried to shoot, they’ve tried to stab, and they put the knife in my chest, as you saw a man do it, and it never went through my chest. It never even cut the shirt on my back. (Pause) In my personal evolvement in this socialist evolution, that a– metaphysical minds call God, in this evolution that I have, you are able to find a protection. We ought to let some of you walk out there and get your posterior shot off. Then you’d know what we’re talking about.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Brotherhood and democracy is foreign to the present system. They talk it– [Adolf] Hitler called about the democratic republic of Germany. A lot of people can use words. Words are easily used. But applicability is something else. (Pause) And I did not realize I was going to say anything. I think I have said sufficiently in this sermon tonight. But for a little practical socialist application, some of you bug me with your anarchy. (Pause) (Voice rises to disgusted anger) If others are seated who are 90, and 85, and 94, and 96, and sit patiently, not having the background of intellectual uh, training or cultivation in the uh, so-called higher schools of learning, I think they’re usually more acquainted to lower schools than higher, but nonetheless they been learned, uh– you would suppose they been learned to think and to follow abstract principle or pragmatic consideration. Some of these folks just feel the emotion or the warmth, or they know that Father Jones will go over and heal them when they’re sick, or nurse them or take their impaction out of their bowels or work with their infection on their foot or take care of little animals, but they sit here, conscientiously not understanding a li– a living word I say. (Pause) Respecting me, because I’m a person. And some of you people that think you have got some white skin and a little bit of education, that that gives you all the freedom in the world, you make me want to puke.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: And I’m going to hit right down where it is, and I notice some black people that get a little lighter, they think they’re a little bit better than other blacks.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: I want you to know this, that your crap smells just like mine, and you better act like you’re just an ordinary person in this room, because we’re not going to make any special consideration for you. I don’t care where you come from. [You] Say, I don’t know about that kind of language. Jesus talked about it. Paul said it. Now the old fashioned, vulgar word in the Hebrew for crap was dung. D-U-N-G. Paul said, I count everything but dung. All things dung that I might apprehend Christ). So I’m using the little practical words to get through some of your hard heads. (Pause) Now “crap” is a better word than “dung” was in the Hebrew, so I shall not go down to that lower word, which is not necessarily going to be appetizing. (Pause) And I managed to get your attention, ’cause you all know what it is. You may be so holy, but you quiet down when I get on these words. You know what these words are. (Pause) But folks, it’s gone take discipline. Here we have the thoughts of a woman’s mind brought out – last night we were discussing this – about the Hiroshima thing and what she’d seen, and the terrible things. Eyeballs melted into their face. (Pause) Little children with nothing but burns, and still dying in Hiroshima. Still dying in Nagasaki. The only– and then people say, a Christian nation, it won’t happen to us, we’re a Christian. Nagasaki was the most Christian city in the Near East– in the Far East, and they showed the pictures last night of the Christian churches that were burned down to the– melted, the statues of Jesus, the crosses melted down like lava. (Pause) America’s got a false sense of security. She’s too fat, too content, she’s too materialistic, and the bombs never hit her shores. We’da been better off in World War II if a few had hit us, ’cause we think we’re immune. And that’s dangerous. (Pause) It makes us very careless. That’s why we push our (unintelligible phrase– sounds like “big gun”) all over the country and all over the world, we bo– block harbors, cause generals like the commander of the Marine Corps to resign, General [David] Shupe, because he said I do not want to be a part of a criminal effort for the military-industrial complex. The commander of your United States Marines said that there’s nothing but dirty, dollar-grubbing capitalistic fingers in Vietnam. We were never there to bring freedom. We were never there to protect those people from communism. He said they were there only to rob the tungsten, the tin and the ro– the rubber and so forth. He said, I’ve been a baron, a robber on three continents for U.S. Steel, Standard Oil and those– some other companies that we don’t need to mention.

(Pause) That’s what the general of the commander of the United States Marine Corps, the top man, said. General Ridgeway, General Clark. S– Hugh Hester, and uh, Rear Admiral True, and all these generals that have resigned (Pause) rather than be a part of this murder that’s going on over there. We mine harbors, we blow up little babies this last week, and we just on with our Skygod religion, and don’t want to do anything to build this– a better world, and make the kingdom of heaven a reality here on earth, to build an apostolic socialism as it was on the day of New– the New Testament. When this week alone– we read the paper and said an accident killed (dramatic slowing) seventy-some young people, they were napalmed by an accident. Teachers and children were napalmed, our own side, and some of our own boys were napalmed. (Pause) BBC said last night– I left here somewhat uh, after four o’clock counseling– BBC said early in the morning– I didn’t even hit the bed– BBC said that already what Congressman [Pete] McCloskey has told you, that our prisoners of war are in every one of their hamlets, because their people are being bombed so badly. Walter Cronkite showed you, just the day before yesterday, the entire terror of what we’re doing. Showed a school, showed an orphanage, showed a hospital that had been bombed to powder. (Pause) I’m talking about the network Walter Cronkite showed it on your TV, and they don’t tell you the whole story. You have to go back there and see a brave reporter, like the Life man – and Life‘s now about to go out of business – and see the pictures of a grandmother that was murdered by the command of captains and colonels– We let Lt. [William] Calley take it, but he just a– he was just a scapegoat. News of– network– Every network said that it was known clear up to the top brass. Here’s a grandmother that was murdered, because she tried to protect her granddaughter from being raped. She was 12 years old, protecting her from being raped by our soldiers. She still got raped, and then they tied her to the tree. It’s back there by the restroom door, and it shows you babies being shot in midair, eyes being poked out– this we’re doing, while you sit here and think that you’re going to wander in to freedom. You think you’re going to do your own thing and get to freedom. (Angry) This system is organized to the nth degree against you, and if you don’t get a corresponding organization to build apostolic socialism, whatever name you want to call it – freedom, liberation of the Third World – you’re– whatever name you choose to give it, if you don’t give of yourself, and discipline yourself, you’re a murderer, you’re a traitor, you’re worse than all the killers that are making the napalm, because you know better.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Now I’ve been on a fast for somewhat sixty hours or so, not taken anything in my body except this liquid here, and as you see, nothing nourishing in that liquid, because I want to acquaint myself with the sorrows of people that was mentioned on the news uh, this week, I want to acquaint even more, and I don’t think I lack in the areas that some of you do, because I’m certainly sensitive to suffering. But I want to acquaint myself to the feelings of starvation that Cronkite said was going on by the thousands each day due to our bombing. We have bombed their rice patties, we have destroyed their way of making a living, and still they fight on. It was a fact of truth that Vietnam was one Vietnam, (Claps hands once) and the capitalist divided it. The war-mongering French that we supported, they divided it. And we promised them that Ho Chi Minh, their leader, could be returned by the voice of the people by 1956, and General [Dwight D.] Eisenhower said himself, we had to break that promise. We made a lie for the security of the corporate interest of the United States. So there is no war over there for freedom. While you’re sitting here in comparative ease, people are suffering, people are dying. And I want to acquaint myself with this– this feeling. And as I said, the sys– system cares not a bit for their sons, because the British Broadcasting Company said what Congressman McCloskey had suggested is true, that there is a prisoner of war– an American prisoner of war in every one of these villages, it’s the only way they hope that they’ll be able to stop the bombing, and we have not reduced the bombing one bit, BBC says Washington knows it, and we still continue to bomb, and 700 of our boys are in each one of these villages, under these bombs. (Voice rises in ministerial cadence) This military system cares not one bit for your hind end or mine. It does not mind to grind you into powder. All it cares about is the almighty dollar, this Baalism of worship of money, and this a– love of money that’s the root of all evil. It’s harder for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of socialism, the kingdom of God, than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, so we are by necessity, madam, whether you like it back there or not, we are anti-rich, and we shall remain anti-rich, for rich cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Reprimands) I did not ask you to come in here. I don’t know how some of you people get in this door anyway. You act like you must be lost. We’re trying to mind our own business. If you want to come in here and hear this that turned the world upside-down under Jesus in the Sonship degree, if you want to come and hear a great revival, a great revolution, then come along. If you don’t, get out. If you’re phony and straight, and you can’t stand a little change in your way, (Cries out) then leave us alone. We’re not bothering you. Why don’t you go and leave us alone.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Normal tone) Hear a little girl, an Indian girl of my background speak of the horrors of what been going on in the name of rich rulers, the murder of a people, the giving of smallpox, blankets from the body of dead American soldiers to wipe out all the Indians of the Northwest. (Voice rises) That’s history, child. We just been lied to. They didn’t put that in the history books. She told that. Preachers have lied. The teachers have lied. As the old song that Paul Robeson used to sing it – and they put him out of business – the greatest voice in America, he sang that song, and it so (Pause) (Calmer) disgusted the power structure, that he was discredited all over the land. He said, (Voice rises to ministerial candence) it ain’t necessarily so. The things that your Bible, the things that your preacher, the things that your teachers are liable to say to you, the thing that the preacher is liable to teach you, the thing that the Bible is liable to teach, it ain’t necessarily so. They have written lies to us. They have handed us down lies. My people of the Battle of Wounded Knee were worshipping the one Great Spirit, that’s why I have this evolvement. Christian historic institutions didn’t help me raise me raise the dead. It’s that that it comes down through the genes of my background. (Pause) (Calm) You ought to take that and mumble over it, some of you that’re Christians in the institutional sense. When our people were on their way to the– just coming out this last few months, the Battle of Wounded Knee– It was a battle, all right. Our people were quietly making a religious pilgrimage. Down came the general, and down came the likes of [General George Armstrong] Custer, murdered them to the last child, cut the inward parts of our babies, cut their breasts off, stretched them on saddlebags, used the ploys of– those that had learned the Indian language, to beckon them out of the caves, so they could even mur– murder the last child. We have a book, if you want it. And I’ll not bother you, some of you people wouldn’t read it if I were to suggest it, but we have a book that tells all that the Indian people have gone through, by the hands of Christianity, by the hands of Western civilization, by the hands of the Bible-toters. Who was the hangman throughout the West? The preacher. The itinerant preacher. He was also the preacher on Sunday and the hangman on Saturday night. He l– hanged uh, thousands of Negro without trial, thousands of poor whites without trial, thousands of Indians were murdered in the name of Christianity. That’s why I say, get my little uh, pamphlet of information about the Letter killing, the Bible kills. It’s a death. Some of you want to put me in that institutional old la– lo– label and uh, knothole. You can’t put me there. I’m not another one of those freaks. (Pause)

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Every religion in the world says God is love, and God is justice. And we know what makes justice. A socialistic sharing that controls the means of production. We know that man has evolved. He’s grown up a little bit. Very little. I look at my– our monkey that runs free, and I see man as he was. Primitive, rebellious– [You say,] “Oh, I’m not related to monkey.” What about that tailbone you all are talking about achin’? (Pause) I’m not talking whether you di– descended from the monkey. I think maybe, like the monkey said, he descended from– he ascended from us, because we certainly– the monkey’s much more cooperative in a lot of ways than the humans are. But your achin’ tailbone’s there, and we had one sister here that I had to heal, that had a tailbone that long. (Pause) And your tailbone, through the genetic process, you look in the study of the– any kind of l– laboratory science, you’ll see how we go through every stage, the embryo. Look like the fish, and we go right up, graduate from every little thing on up. (Takes voice of disbeliever) I know (unintelligible word), but I don’t believe that, because– (Normal tone) Why don’t you believe? (Tone of disbeliever) ‘Cause King James told you, wasn’t so. (Pause) Anything King James said, wasn’t so, you don’t believe it. But King James was the man that took early Americans and ordered them, by his command, to be murdered, white, and took the blacks on the first Good Ship Jesus out of slavery in chains– he took you. You that are so concerned that you want to protect King James, he was so concerned about your grandmothers that he threw them overboard if they were (Shouts word) pregnant. You’re so concerned about King James, and that’s the only reason, and you know why the church fights the spirit of growth – that’s what evolution means, growth, maturing, becoming perfect – you know why they fight that? Because they just know it’d put a lot of preachers out of business, and they can’t stand it. They can’t stand it.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Put ’em out of business. They’ve got one thing only. They haven’t got good works. Nobody would come to them because they’re nice. The majority of (unintelligible phrase) the little preachers here that I– a couple ladies back there, and the brothers on this staff who are kindly people, most people wouldn’t go to preachers being nice. They threw out Mrs. Fisher, and we had to take her in at four o’clock in the morning, she’d been a member of that Baptist church for 17, 18 years, paid her tithes regularly, but when she lost her home, get out. When she got burned out, nobody to help. Every one of these churches send us their children, send us their poor, send us their needy, send us their older people, after they’ve used ’em and wrung them out like an orange, taken the last bit of juice, they send them up to Jones to take care of them. We’re glad to get them, ’cause they make wonderful people, because they get their eyes open then. (Pause)

Congregation: Applause

Jones: But you see, preachers don’t have a thing to offer. They got a black book, and that’s all they got. A black book which, according to even King James – he didn’t get all the truth out of there, he didn’t take all the truths of God away – even there, it says in Second Corinthians 3, that it will kill, the letter will kill, and the spirit will make alive, or the Bible kills or love makes alive. It’s still there, so obvious. People sit here and gonna get nervous– I’ve got some (unintelligible word) back there, nervous, because I said something about a monkey. I didn’t mean to tell about monkey. I got more important things to talk about than monkeys. But you have been brainwashed. Now, I want you to know that when that monkey gets down there, or opens that car door, and it’s six o’clock and he didn’t get into his home where– in– in– in our house down there, the people’s house– it’s not my house, because I have a lady there that I raised from the dead, who’s in her seventies that I’ve kept healed, took cancer out of the body, I’ve got all kinds of children who are legally and not adopted legally, living there, so it’s not my house, it’s a people’s house. But in the people’s house, there’s an owl and there’s a monkey and there’s cats– there’re 36 cats and seven dogs and a snake wandering around someplace– all kinds of things in that house. (Pause) And we get along together. But if that monkey doesn’t get inside at six o’clock, he starts acting like a lot of people. He gets inside– he’ll open a car and get inside and blow the horn.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: And if he don’t get the horn blew– uh, to– tonight nobody paid any attention to him, so he just broke the– he broke the mirror right off that car, the little ol’ thing no bigger ‘n that, he just took that side mirror and went foom, broke it off. [He] Said, you folk gonna ignore me, I’m gonna show you.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: And you know, some of our folk come in here, they say, these straight Holiness people, they’re not known, they don’t know quite how to act, and they– they come in here holding their ice cream or their– their cake and he’s a– he’s the cleverest fellow, he can lope off that roof, make a leaping dive, and never stop, pick up your piece of pie and not leave a crumb on your hand, and hit the ground.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: So I don’t know whether you need to say the monkey needs to learn from us, or we need to learn from the monkey. I mean he did that to Sister Ti– Leroy, who was our secretary, he reached down, got her– got her ice cream right out of the cone– got it right out of the cone in one dip without touching her hand and went right to the ground.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: That’s clever. He breaks out of any cage– there’s no cage, there’s no chain, there’s nothing can keep him, he can open anything you want to name, his little ol’ fingers, he’s got five, just like you, and got a thumb.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: And he got the tail, which I wish I had, ’cause he– the way he use that tail, and flip around and swirl around through those trees, we lost something when we lost our tail. We got too lazy, you know.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: We got TV. (Laughs) Ah, halleluia, some of you folks, you don’t believe you ever had a tail.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: You don’t ever believe you had a tail, but it’s right down there between you– you read it– you been talking about your tailbone long as you been living. (Disbeliever) I hurt mah tailbone. (Normal tone) Look at it on the skeleton. It’s stickin’ right out there. (Pause) (Ministerial cadence) That’s the beauty of it. We evolved from the little things, on up through the animal, the vegetable, the mineral, up to the human, and then the human to the extraterrestrial, the extra-dimensional, or God. There’s no end to growth, there’s no end to evolution, that’s the beauty of life, that’s what makes it so thrilling. (Pause) (Normal tone) (Unintelligible words– “yeah yeah yeah”). (Claps hands twice) I said, in the seven days, six days, you said that the earth was made. God made the heavens and earth in six days. Now, are you sure of that? (Pause) You go back there and read King James, he’s got vegetables growing before the sun shines. (Pause) Go back and read the book, honey, don’t– no, don’t look nasty at me. Don’t look like you want to spit on my nose. Just a– just go back and read it. (Pause) You got vegetables growin’ in the King James Bible before the sun shines. You know nothing don’t grow without sun. Chlorophyll’s the very value of life, that’s why I get– try to get some of you use my herbs. I’ve cured cancer with it. Yes, I have. Did it. Cured it with a lot of these natural things. But nobody– (stumbles over words) folks don’t want to bother with that. You want to say, hear what the Spirit said. I want to hear some more Script– Scripture, more preaching. Well, Scripture means “scriptoria,” or “letter of love.” And I’m giving you some letters of love. Anything that’ll set you free is loving, if you listen. (Pause) Now, how– how’d we get onto monkeys?

Calls from audience

Jones: I was saying something about discipline, and we got off– (Pause) And man– talked about evolution. And man hasn’t uh– I don’t know my particular point was. Some of you get so hung up– I don’t know why you get hung up over things like that. I’m amazed, really, that people have been able to keep science (Pause) so, uh, darkened, even in our day. But it’s still a primitive hold, and the only reason you hold onto those things, is the Black Book. You say, I don’t believe it. You said, it takes away from God. Don’t take a thing away from God. In the Beginning was the Word. I don’t care whether you trace this back to Adam – who couldn’t have been the first man– (Pause) First place, that doesn’t say he was. One Bible verse says it, but it says go forth and replenish, which means, fill again. So if he was the first, you don’t have to go fill it again. Somebody’d been on it before he was. (More demanding) Said replenish there, didn’t it say it?

Congregation: Right.

Jones: It’s the awfulest thing, to get folks to just one little truth. You gotta go all the way round the barn, get ’em in the door. Gotta pick up all this manure and get it assimilated in the right place, so you’ll be able to understand what we’re talking about. (Pause) In the second place, anybody knows, if he’s the first man– and then out of his rib, came male chauvinism. Made a woman, that’s what women’s trouble been all along, been that book. Keep silent in all the churches, you women back th– I believe the book, that sister back there grimacing at me, do you believe the Bible? Then I want you, sister, to shut your mouth from now on. ‘Cause the Bible says, let you keep silent in all of the churches. Suffer not a woman to teach– (Pause) The best teachers I’ve ever heard were women. Best freedom fighters I know, the people that make this work move, the one who helped me move pianos yesterday and furniture, with exception of Brother Block, who’s in advanced year, were women. They were helping me lift the de– the dirt and debris and move fur– big items of furniture. I don’t know where the church’d be if the women had kept silent. But the Bible says for you not to teach, not to even speak in all the churches, and if you want to ask a question, go home and ask your husband, if you can find him, or if he hadn’t been killed by the system.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: And then– And then– (Pause)

Voice in crowd too soft

Jones: All right. Tell him not to fear, just to breathe 40 times and think on me, and they’ll be chipper than a s– a chipmunk tomorrow, and be back with us here Thursday night. (Pause) Sister think she’s dying, but I know God Socialism’s evolved too much for any one of my followers to die. (Calls out) Hey, God Almighty.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: So glad. Now, you may not want to take the monkey preacher, you may not like me with my tailbone, you may not like this nigger settin’ here, but when you get ready to die, you’ll be huntin’ this nigger up, I know you will. Ah, yes, I know you will.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: You like to keep your ideas till you get down in trouble or get hungry or get sick, and then you come over and look this nigger up. I know you will. I see we got some folk here who don’t know they’re niggers still. (Pause) Why, if you didn’t know you was a nigger, honey– (Pause) Nigger means “to be treated niggardly, to be low-rated,” and if we haven’t been– (Short laugh) Honey, we been low-rated, they castrated everything practically but our hair. They sure got everything about cut off. We are the poor. We don’t know (unintelligible word– “where”?) the next day. If we weren’t here together, some of you wouldn’t have a nurse to take care of you. One of our sisters, we run– I run my staff of nurses in there this week, she said, I would’ve died– No, but she isn’t even a regular member. But we run in there, and gave her her baths and took care of her, and she said, what would I’ve done? What would you do? Your insurance won’t cover you, you’ve got little old technical phrases, you get into certain illnesses, you have to go to intensive care, if you have to have special nurses, there’re no special nurses for you. You better be a VIP, they still put it on the charts, I’ve been a departmental head in a hospital, you better be a big shot or you roll into a hospital and you die. They’ll still let you die. (Pause) That’s why I want you to get up here and organize. [You] Say, I don’t like religion. I don’t care whether you like religion or not. Do you like to take care of one another? Do you like looking after each other? We got– We’ve got the supervisor– the superintendent of nurses in our charge in the hospital. We got a supervisor on every floor. We got a nurse in every room. We’ve got a nurse in the surgery. So they better operate on you right. If you don’t happen to get in contact with me and they do have to operate on you, it won’t be like the sister downtown that had the sutures– ah, had to be undone and uh, re-operated, ’cause they lost some sponges in the side of her belly, because two doctors wanted to get out and golf. (Pause) In socialist countries, they’ll take 12 doctors and work together to perform an operation, as we saw the picture here, and our doctor who went back and was really credulous– (stumbles for words) I mean, hos– hostile against any kind of– of apostolic or equalitarian or socialist of you, and he said, I– amaze me– See, doctors who will not give us concern about dollars, and just work for the sake of helping people. Twelve doctors took that great big 90-pound growth out of a woman without even a knife, using acupuncture. (Pause) Acupuncture. Just feeling it away. You can’t get a– They– they– they time themselves in. You’ve got so much time to get that operation, and that’s the way they work, baby. And they won’t get any auxiliary help, because they look at your insurance– I’ve heard them talk. My professional nurses can lift their hand and say it’s true. You that are nursing. They gonna get it done with whatever price your insurance allows, and if they don’t have any provision for special help, you don’t get any special help, you just have to take your risk. (Pause) You didn’t know any hope till you got here. We’ve taken in the hospital, we’ve got into the probation department, we’ve got into the welfare services, where we heard welfare workers stand and laugh over somebody’s baby dying. Or stand and talk about shootin’. Well, I think we all have got compromises, but at least we’re comforting to know, we’ve got several social workers that have crept into our welfare department to know what’s going on. We’ve made ’em live straight. They laughed over taking the food and stealin’ it and sharing and sharing surplus foods and letting people go hungry. That’s stopped, because God Socialism has come in this nigger body on the scene.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I want to address myself to that Aunt Jane back there, don’t think you’re a nigger. Are you low-rated? Can you get in the best hospital? Can you get in the best a– home? Can you get in the nicest neighborhood? Can you get the best job? Haven’t you worked your knees to the bone? Then, my honey, you’re a nigger, just like me.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: (Ministerial fervor) Nobody gonna get cured– If you want to face the fact you got cancer, you can’t get it out of you. We’re gonna have to face that we are the oppressed, and Christ, the anointing, which means revolution, has come to those that are in captivity, to those that are bound, to those that are not free, to those that are the niggers, he has come to set us free, to lift us up out of our lacks and wants and limitations, out of our economic and social servitude, out of our racial exploitation, into the freedom of total socialization.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Normal tone) In order to do this– in order to do this, child, it’s taken cooperation. Takes us to be up all night last night. Planning. We had to train people to get in jobs where they could purchase things wholesale, for the days ahead for you. (Pause) Some of us who organize and worked with less than an hour’s sleep for the last ten years, that we were able to help the political prisoners get their trials. Older men and women, white and black, that have been arrested under false pretenses– I’ve walked into the courtroom many a time, as the two attorneys here can attest– we have a deputy attorney, counsel, one in the county next to us, and the assistant district attorney is a member of our church here. (Voice starts to climb) Where they’ll put you in a mass kangaroo court, a– (tape failure)

End of tape

Tape originally posted April 2001