Q273 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Jones: And every time somebody fixes something special for me, everybody takes the right to go into that goddamn kitchen and make what they need. The rest of you that let you do it to you, they’re buying something from you, they’re buy– (tape edit) had the health problems I’ve got, I wish I’d never had to think about ‘em. Now I won’t think about them. We’ll just take our chances, because I’m not gonna go through it anymore, I’m sick of it. If there’s any substantiation to it, and I’ve heard it rumored through this place that it’s being done. All through this place. And it will not be resolved by changing supervision. It’s not a supervisorial problem, although there are those who are supervisors who have participated in it very much. And I’m afraid of making shifts, even though there now is something on the floor about making a shift, and they want to put another sister joint, white and black, responsibility in the kitchen, I think that’s very good, but I seen the sister they w– recommend, and her children can manipulate anything they want out of her. And I don’t want to see anybody in that kitchen that will be (calls out) manipulated.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

Jones: But that may be perfectionism talk. That may be uh, my ass talkin’, because my mind knows better. Because everyone in there is guilty of it. (Pause) So well, my friend, my good comrade leader, uh, that’s– that’s humanity. Uh, isn’t gonna be my kind of humanity because I watch these babies, and I look at them, and I’m sure they like a little diversity in their food. I’m sure they would, and I just don’t like it. (unintelligible word) I’ll not drink any more of that shit, too, I’m going outta business, something I have to take for uh, release of indigestion. I won’t take that, because I am not going to allow you to manipulate what you want to do out of some excuse that you’re helping Dad, and while you’re fixing Dad’s food, you’re fixing your own food. So, whatever comes off that dinner– dinner line, I’ll be right there with you. I enjoyed the meal tonight, anyway. I don’t know what it was kick about. Lotta people kick kick kick kick kick, but if you had to eat the high protein that I have, you’d welcome it. And I’m so sick of flesh, that I– I don’t even want to look at it. I don’t even want to look at flesh. I can stand the whites in the eggs to some degree, and I don’t know whether there’s any protein in it or not, but uh, I’m sure that we all have to have protein, and we’re going to all have to balance the protein, and I’m going to have to balance mine right along with the rest of yours, ‘cause that’s the way the ball game’s going from now on. (Pause) That’s the way it’s going. And I uh, hope that we will be– of one of the facts, be able to straighten that kitchen matter up, that we’ll be able to integrate. There’s a f– there’s a– there’s a feeling here uh, that it’s not based on any of the racism– no racism on the part of the leadership, that there’s a black front force and a white front force. So we gotta integrate this. We can’t have whites in the front and blacks in the back, even though it may be just nothing but an accident, it may mean that they got no white cooks that can cook worth shit. And that’s possible. But we better find one. (Pause) We– we surely can find some white dishwashers. (Pause)

Crowd: (Applause)

Jones: Peace. (Calls out) And we will.

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: Peace. By Monday morning, that k– that whole program will be integrated. I don’t know how you’re going to do it, but I’m ordering it. I don’t care if you like me, love me, lump me, love me, I know you don’t like me, I don’t give a shit, principle’s all that matters to me, Monday morning, the fuckin’ place’ll be integrated, and everybody’ll be peaceful.

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: Everybody’ll be peaceful. (Pause) Peace. And that’s what this organization lacks, in coordinators, in the supervision, some don’t have enough voice perhaps, but you won’t wiel [wield] responsibility, because you don’t want to be hated. And we’ll starve to death, we don’t stop it. We’re faltering in our pro– production of vegetables, faltering in even the report to me, that the vegetables are not coming up out of the ground. This report was not given to me– you can’t gi– expect me to go through 84 manuscripts. I had a manuscript to go through today on problems in the United States. I can’t– I can’t uh, possibly weigh these things, these have got the high points of dangers have got to be brought out, and underlined or s– whispered in my ear, ‘cause all those manuscripts now, I’m administering the home front. The difference in administering (tape edit) this, if you don’t move just wisely, you’ll be open to a number of criminal actions. If we move out of there too quickly, those fuckers will see uh, an opportunity to take criminal actions against some of our people. If we don’t move out in time, we’ll lose our property, and– but– st– you can certainly get rid of property without losing your people. This idea that our people there can’t sell this San Francisco Temple, they have to have it. That’s bullshit. They don’t have to have it. They don’t have to have it, they can function without it, and we’ve ordered it be done. But they’ve defied that order on a– on several occasions. And that’s what made me so down and say again, I’m gone take a few more days to see who’s coming. Why in the hell would they want to come and not realize that we need a 300,000 or at least 250,000 dollars out of that church building. Obviously we need that. Huh?

Voice in crowd: (too soft)

Jones: They w– they might be, that’s true. But one thing, we need the money. And we’re not going to let that building– because one thing we can’t change, unless you want to negotiate, and I thought about that. If this– If this organization had its leadership, I’d– I know what these fuckers want. They want the death of Jim Jones. That’s what they really want. It’s Jim Jones that showed them themselves. It’s Jim Jones that made them have to face themselves. It was Jim Jones that made them have to take a look at themselves. That’s what killing them. Now they had– they couldn’t live with looking at him, and when you don’t continue trying to love, that will turn to hate. That’s why we call it the love/hate syndrome. Then they want to rationalize that all those years they coulda been livin’ it up, because they finally become creatures  of lust, and then they hate me for those years they lost. And I’m easily understanding that kind of phenomena, even though I don’t understand the lowness of their character. I can understand their departure from socialism. I can even empathize with that, but not their cruelty. Not the barbarous cruelty. How they can now go so far, that they set up headlines that two young blacks molest an old drunk white woman [Kathy Hunter], making it uh– punishing every black person in California. Making it unsafe, as sure as h– there is no heaven, as sure as the sun rises and sets, some black going through Redwoods is gonna get hurt because of this. We were getting hurt when we were traveling up there, when everybody was speaking well of us. They surrounded us in a restaurant or a parking or a gas station, and nearly did our drivers in, in Santa Rosa, where the– the– the heat of this is coming from, the Press Democrat. And to think that Jim Cobb and all those black and white people had no more awareness or concern. They have awareness. They had no concern, goddamnmit. To suit their own vendetta of hate towards me, they will risk every black person’s safety in the whole of Sonoma, Northern California, Mendocino County, or anybody going through there on their way to Washington. That’s a cruel bunch of mother fuckers.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: And I’ve uh– I’ve uh, thought of the exchange. This place is where it ought to be, I’d make an exchange. You drop your goddamn suits– You say you’re concerned about the well-being of your relatives, you drop your goddamn suits, fifty some million dollars of them now, trying to stifle our people, and you can have me. No, I’m talking of what I’ve felt. I know that’s not feasible because the place won’t function now. But I sure wish it would. ‘Cause I’m a tired man, and I’d give them me, and I could say, do with me what you will, ’cause I don’t give a goddamn. I’m in hell anyway, and if it would get you out of some hell, I’d gladly go back and say, suckers, now you’ve got the person you want to kill, now you’ve got the person that troubled your conscience, now do– destroy him. (Pause) But I can’t do it. The organization– Well, I can’t do it, not for the reason you have, not out of sentimentality, I’m not sentimental, not about myself. I couldn’t sacrifice your life, but I can sacrifice mine. I wouldn’t have debated hour after hour about whether your life be spared, but God, if I had– only had the right to act on my su– assumption, my own self esteem of– uh, my estimation of my value and the historical process, we’da had it over in ten seconds. I wouldna debated it. It’da been over with. ‘Cause I don’t see myself in these sentimental terms as some of you do, as an important soul. That’s what you’re projecting on me. You see your importance. So you say, don’t, you– No, no, Dad, don’t go back, don’t let them do what you– they will to you, ‘cause I’ll suffer. If you would be where you ought to be today, in growth, you wouldn’t suffer when I was gone, somebody else could step in my shoes, and I could do that and get these hounds at bay. And I’ll bet you they’d recall their suits to get me. That’s how much hate they’re on. There’s no love in them, there’s no mercy, there’s no compassion, there’s not even human decency anymore. They’re not concerned about their relatives. Obviously, they’re not, or they wouldn’t try to cut us off from the amateur radio, try to get our money so you can’t eat, (calls out) they’re not concerned about you, (voice calms) they know nothing but pandemonium can come out of that. If they succeeded in getting done what they want to do, stopping us from medicines, informing all the doctors not to talk to us, so you can’t anybody to talk to you on the– on the radio, even though we backed up– the FCC at least backed off, and we still have our license, but they’ve gone so far as to keep doctors from talking to our doctor [Larry Schacht]. So we’re having to go on a whole new meter band, having to think about beaming our signal towards the Soviet Union. That’s how little they care, your goddamn relatives. Say, well, mine care, they weren’t involved with it. They shoulda rose up and protested it then. They know what’s happening, they can read the newspaper.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

Jones: Peace. It’s in the newspaper, black and white, what they’re doing to us. Black and white, how they’re getting all these agencies to investigate and harass our people and cut off our funds, and try to stop our money, and any fool could know all those 55 million dollars suits, frame-up suits, are just to see that the properties will be fixed and our bank at– counts ta– attached, so you won’t be able to eat. So don’t kid yourself, and say, my relative not in it. Well, you don’t know. Say, well, isn’t. Well, the Medlocks [Wade and Mabel Medlock] are, and a lot of black people are, and a lot of white people are, and if yours wasn’t in it, then, if you’re not of it, you should be against it.

Crowd: (Scattered applause)

Jones: How many of your relatives– Peace. How many of your relatives have written you offering to stand up against them? How many of your relatives have written offering to write the press on our behalf? How many of your relatives were at our protest march, and all of ‘em were offered and contacted. (Voice drops) None. Face it, children. We entertained one woman here for eight days, Vivian Davis, eight dav– days, you don’t want to face it, but she would not come. She was afraid. Said, send to Jim and Marcy [Marceline Jones] my love, it’s such a beautiful place, but I’m afraid. Then she promised to come to her daughter, ‘cause she couldn’t stand to lie to her daughter over the radio, but she didn’t come the next morning. (Pause) Don’t tell me your relatives are any different. They see what’s happening to us, (Voice rises) and they know you’re over here. If they weren’t approving of you suffering, if they weren’t approving of it, they’d stand up and scream.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

Jones: Peace. They’re not helpless. They’re not helpless. At least they can scream. They may not be able to move newspapers, but at least they can scream. (pause) Well, I don’t know how I got into all that. I presume it needed to be said. Are you willing to be hated? The organization’s not moving as effectively as it ought to. (unintelligible sentence) Not moving as effectively as it ought to. By no means is it moving effectively as it ought to. (Pause) This has some merit, and I’d like for you to consider it. An executive authority. Who should be the chief administrative officer? We do not like the term “coordinators.” It doesn’t uh, mean enough responsibility. It connotes responsibility but not authority, and not enough of a– uh, either one. The person chosen should have as many of the following qualities as possible: fairly young, and in reasonably good health, with lots of stamina, because the job will be taxing. Two, accustomed to think of the socialist movement or organization as a whole, rather than of one department, no matter how vital that one department may be in their own (unintelligible word, sounds like “talented”), their preferences. Three, proven in heavy responsi– proven in heavy responsibility. They’ve gone through the test of heavy responsibility. Frugal. That means saving, penny-pinching, as I’ve been, since I was a child, to give you opportunity, for some of you to throw away our cups so we can’t have enough punch, and throw away our plates so we don’t know whether we’re gonna feed you every night. That’s a fuckin’ mess I went through. Sometimes my heart aches. I know why I can cry for those people in Roots, and it isn’t beyond your capacity to cry. For yourself, yes, you should subdue it. But when you look at that, and you hear those people, which Kitler [Kunta Kinte] died, he said he’s free at last. Uh, oh how– how– how I envied uh, what that old man had had happen to him, because I’ve been a slave all my life. I’ve been a slave. Nothing they coulda done to me in that picture– That may sound hard for you to deal with, but nothing I saw in that picture is as horrible as what I’ve had to be. To feel, for a thousand people, and then when you learn how to feel, to worry about them night and day, to have Bobby Stroud for two and a half hour– two and a half hours or so last night – two hours – to have to worry, is he gonna be all right in that terrible tragedy that happened to him, when he hit– thrown off the truck right on top of his head. That’s a hellish, hellish situation. Yes, I know, I know, it– there’s nothing wrong with it, the arm that was uh, said to be broken is not broken now. Only keeping him in hospital just to be safe for observation, because he doesn’t even have a headache.

Crowd: (Scattered applause)

Jones: But yesterday– but yesterday, he was unconscious, and he grabbed his neck before he went into that semi-consciousness and – you may be seated – he– he was unconscious. Delirious. And to worry about people, to constantly have that fear and– for your people, and your love for them, and watch them come by and wonder about this child being a little underweight or that child may need this or that or the other thing. Seeing the socks not matching, and seeing some parents give more concern than others. My heart breaks so many times every day that I can barely stand to see the light of day. It has not been my plan to avoid the sun, but just nature calls, the duty of that radio’s taken me all night into the morning, but there’d been one advantage in the last two days I’ve had to be around this place, and (stumbles over words) I see so much. It pains you. On top of us being up all night and dealing with it on that radio, to have to see so much.

Oh, it’s a perfect society compared to other US societies, but it is not my idea of what I wanted. Neither did I have any idea that we were going to be faced with 55 million dollar suits, nor did I– but could I possibly know when you’re good, the unlimited potential for evil that some people have. It’s an unlimited potential. When people can set up that mess, and appeal to white hate out of a vendetta to get Jim Jones, I– I– I ca– I can’t understand this.

(Weary tone) So I died on May 13, totally. And you better hear it this time, ‘cause I want to see if you hear it, ‘cause remember what I told you about tonight. I died on May 13. Up until that time, I– I thought my goodness surely could be communicated if you were close range with me, you couldn’t help but see it. But on May 13, I died. Because a woman [Debbie Layton Blakey]– because I refused her sexually, tried to cause me purposeful pain, no doubt, by leaving on my birthday. ‘Cause I don’t believe that there’s some God up there, or some devil, doing it. It’s humans. She chose my birthday to bring all that hell. That was significant. That taught me a very good lesson. Here’s somebody I’d given to, I– I saved her from drugs, debauchery. I met her in an hour of need when I was under such pressure, I don’t know how I ever did it, till my joints would not hardly get me up and down the steps. I was a good friend, a trusting comrade, and she never saw unprincipled behavior, other than just a human– human characteristic of being irritated, and then I always explained – and it’s always associated with insulin – I always explained that uh, when it passes, you can tell, and the sweat stops and the palpitations stop, then the calmness comes. And I don’t have much of that anymore. And I don’t know what’s happened. Maybe it helped to die on December [May] 13, I don’t know. Because I don’t have as many attacks. (Pause) (tape edit) I may not feel good, but I’m glad for one thing, I don’t have as many attacks. Not because of relief, but because it’s uh, handicaps your administration. But on May 13, I died, because at that point I gave up that you could communicate goodness. I don’t know whether any of you are ever gonna understand me, and I don’t know whether it’ll ever be possible for anybody to get the good that I have, or the good that others have here, and take that good and put it in yourself. And you that are good– and uh, and I use that conservatively, carefully– I mean, where we know we’re going to give of ourselves, no matter what we feel inside, that we will give, we will push, that we will not neglect our duties. The– As much as I hate that radio, I demand, no matter whether I’m here, and I can’t even enjoy TV because I have to interpret it, ‘cause people won’t sensitize, they won’t feel. You got to constantly bolt in and give new ideas about the movie, or point out propaganda, but I let the radio people come and go. I never leave them– leave them with that shit alone. And I force myself in there, the sounds of that things are so full (electronic distortion for several words) (Silence)

–in your world, your child, your little games, whatever you’re doing, sidetracking your thoughts. Then you wouldn’t feel so bad about what your lot is. Billions have gone before you, suffered so far more than you, that you have no reason to complain. No reason to complain. But some of you are gonna have to learn that, ‘cause I’m not gonna live the rest of my life pointing a gun at people to make them work. I do not want guns in our midst to force us to work. That is not my life. I cannot live it any longer. I have lived being an authoritarian all my days. When I was a gentle, understanding father, and I do not want to have to go up and down these roadways, personally, policing this place. If there’s not enough goodness in us to come to the duty, if there’s not enough principle in you that’re around me, to come to duty, this not– still not over that P.A. system, (Pause) there’re people that need to hear, they’re always gone. (Pause) If people– and you tell everybody that’s not here or working, you tell them all what I said. Your roommate, your companion, be he male or female, or several. (Pause) If people can continue to practice their elitism, if they can continue to take special privileges, not to assume certain work responsibilities, not to clock themselves in like others– and others have the nerve, who are younger, and they’re younger than me, and they expect that when I can’t take the radio any longer, they automatically have the right to leave the radio.

I’ve been in this struggle since I was a teenager. Ever since I was a child, I’ve been carrying somebody else’s problems, and it puts one hell of a weight on me, so when I have to leave, when my health can take no more that I have to do something else, I have to diversify because I have a blood pressure problem that gets out of hand, that people will automatically wait for me to make a move so they can make their move. And some won’t even go through the pretenses anymore of giving the appearance of work. They– (tape fallout for several seconds) –ever they want to do, take special privilege, get special foods, yes, down to little things. Little things. Let other people work, let other people dictate while they read a newspaper or a book, whatever they want to do, go out and walk or stroll. Um-hmm.

Gets down to a lotta little things that some of you people have. You take fans in your home, use your fan, particularly of  yourself and thinking nobody else. That’s why I’ve got a fan that for the most part doesn’t work, but I don’t feel good about it. ‘Cause some in– the most part, I think  I turned that big fan on today, just briefly, because I was sweating so badly at midday, giving the news. And that’s the first time it’s been on in weeks. I just as soon it was gone, out, but we need it for guests, because I have to give up my place when guests come. To be used by someone else.

I don’t like using anything that other people don’t have. And there some, that doesn’t bother you at all. And the way you can avoid it not bothering you, I guess, is to seal yourself off from other people’s suffering. Walk through the geriatric section where senior, ninety-some years of age, don’t have a fan. (Pause) So. Ninety-year-olds that stood on a street corner, and fed you. They held a little cup in their hand, and had people go by and insult them. Spit on them. Held that little cup out there so you could get your food and your clothing, and you could be protected and have a lawyer and could get your education, and some of you don’t give a goddamn. You go around, right in front of ‘em, run by them and nearly knock them over, I saw today. Children don’t even give a shit, don’t give a shit. Throw down peelings in front of them, these fruit, and let a senior reach over and pick it– as I saw today, 80-some years of age, picking up your peelings. I’ve had it. If people can’t be appealed to in goodness, then somebody else has got to take on this executive administrative role, I cannot be in this role anymore. I can’t be in it. It’ll kill me. I would like to think that some people could respond to goodness, I can’t for the life of me understand why people can’t respond to goodness. But I made a commitment, when I died on my birthday, May 13, that if nobody ever understood me, if nobody ever copied me, I’d long ago given up the idea than anybody would care for me, but if nobody understood me, I said, if three billion people go against communism in this goddamn world, one Jim Jones will not. I’ll be a communist, because communist is– communism is right. I cannot morally live in a world where two out of three babies go to bed hungry, and that’s always an abstraction to you people, so many of you, you’d never deal with a hungry baby.

I looked today at a cat, I was sitting there grading papers and reading a manuscript, and I looked at the cat, and there was a hundred other people in this auditorium, but nobody saw that cat. The little cat was digging here, tryin’ to find anything, a bug, and I wondered how in Jonestown a cat could be so poor as this. Why wouldn’t somebody think of that little cat, and give it– uh, that cat would’ve loved the gravy and the rice if you’da fed it. And you get plenty of that. Nobody’s restricted how much food– I know, I sent the cat to you. That why you– that’s why uh, I knew it would be taken care of, I sent it uh, by Jim Arthur [Jones] to– but the little– this little kitten is not where it ought to be. And everybody here oughta be concerned now, about every child that looks underweight. I’ll go by and I’ll say, that teen looks like he’s losing weight, or that girl looks like she’s losing weight. It bothers me, it pains me, why are we not our neighbor’s keeper. We oughta all be concerned now, uh– What do we have– what kinds of greens did we have tonight?

Voices in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Well, then, uh, if we got eddo– have we got eddo greens enough to get us through? Eddo greens. Those were delicious. I could eat them every night.

Male in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: What’s that?

Male in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Well, then, now, I see. Well, I want to see uh– I– I don’t pay much attention to food. (Reads) Food available for the six– the next six weeks back of the apartments, eddoes. Field 11 has six acres of uh, volunteers, young, uh, and can supply greens. Three banana and eddo fields, two acres. One half acre in West Garden. R-1 and L-1, one acre. New garden, five acres. Some in windrows. Some in the front of the nursery building, mostly volunteers. I’ve seen some okra falling off of the– the okra got big enough back over there on my one– one route to the East House that uh, I don’t– I don’t understand why we let food just drop before our eyes. Sweet potatoes, five to eight acres that needs weeding. Five acres, starleaf. Well, what did– how– how– are we going to be able to have greens, is what I’m asking. Are we– (electronic bursts of distortion, tape silence for several moments) (Reads) –try to buy vegetables which we can’t afford. We’re gonna have to buy things that we could turn to greens. You’re gonna have to give us some idea. Rheaviana [Beam] and her will have to be given some idea, because we got fruits, we got to be sure– we got to be sure that people get enough vegetables.

Voices in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Well, she’s coming over there. (Reads) Storage in the drums is critical to us. Need to get more drums for storage and see about the valves and seals and adhesive. Have replacement order in the States now, should maybe order much more valves, seals – I would think so – and adhesive. We can perhaps get the drums here, but the valves and seals are very hard to locate, and were after many tests and failures that we succeeded. Need to find out if the government will let us impo– import any beans from the States for table consumption. (Pause) Not likely, since they want us growing them and have this mass program underway. (Conversational tone) I’m not sure. You could order them in some barrels, I– I don’t know whether beans, uh– how much is he– Gonna pay a price ordering food from out of this country, though. (Tsks) Your price on beans, anything’s gonna be much higher abroad than here. (Pause) I can’t think of anything we could uh, hardly make it worthwhile. (Pause) In food. Is there anything at all in food?

Male: I couldn’t tell you about that, Dad, but I was going back to tell you about the green situation. Within about six weeks, we should be able to have greens, wherever we want them, every day, we could, as to– as according to the weather, and it’s getting better, looks like.

Jones: Greens every day in six weeks, then we won’t suffer, will we, doctor. (Pause) (Reads) Summary analysts feel that the problems were uh, ignorance on part of planters, weather and poor management. At this stage, agreed we are not yet communist and need a strong person at the helm of the farm that will take firm lead. (Conversational tone) That’s another person, I guess, that’s– The committee’s report, analyst report.

All right. Now let’s go on with the criteria for the (unintelligible word under electronic pulse) director. Shift, please. (Pause) Proven in heavy responsibilities, frugal, that’ll be willing to save like Dad has. A high level of personality stability – you may be seated – with little emotionalism and little personal or selfish motives. This should be written up as goals for all of us, but that should be in front of every coordinator, these should be put in their writing and put on the walls. A high level of consistence. Proven loyalty to– to the socialist leader and to socialist principles and practices. Proven administrative capability with a high level of follow-through. That’s our biggest weakness here, is follow-through. A capacity and reputation for being hard-working– A capacity and reputation for being hard-working, who won’t get sidetracked by sex or any other diversion. (Pause) who’ll put the responsibility and welfare of the people, as I have, knowing that people’re not enlightened to take the same load that you ha– you will take. Uh– Not being irritated that some will persist forever, it seems, to set in a movie and not come to work, have to be called, as I hear one name called every night, makes me so sick, I hear that woman [Marcia Ann Simon?] every night called to her duties. (Pause) You disgrace the m– name of your mother. To hear Marcy called every night, damn near every night, Marcy, go to work. You got the name of your mother. (Pause)

Male 2: That’s– that’s partly my fault, ‘cause the time was mixed up between the coordinator and dispatch, and they were calling her too early.

Jones: Fine. Thank you. I knew it used to be a pattern, I’m glad to her it isn’t still.

Male 2: (unintelligible)

Jones: Not– not now? Yes, that’s good. The capac– The capacity and reputation for being hard-working. Not depending on whether somebody else is setting around in a movie or reading a novel and won’t work (pause) or goofing off, with their fingers up their ass, talking out in open day when they could be producing. Historically, n– now– Now or historically meshed in any faction or power group which may now exist and which might– or might have existed or would be possible to come into existence. A person who is obviously loyal to the leader, because you can obviously know the leader will dismiss himself, you’ll never have to dismiss him. If there was a strong leader in my place now, I would bargain with these people in the United States and give them myself for the guarantees that no more persecution – yes – no more suits and drop the suits that they now have. And I’d let them do exactly with me what they wanted to do. Reasoned judgment and the ability to receive input well from others, to take criticism well from others, but still be able to g– make a decision, you have to be proven wrong and go ahead. There’s too much democracy now, it would bog down in everybody’s opinion, and we don’t get anything done. That’s overburdening democracy.

Please don’t be battling bugs. There’s not a bug here that’ll bite you in the nighttime. Little mosquito, and you won’t see him. (Pause) The bigger the ones, the better. Don’t worry about them. they will not bite you.

Voice in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Reasoned judgment, as I said, and the ability to receive input well from others, the ability to give instructions without the appearance of being on a power trip. That’s important too. Such a person should have the respect of the whole community or at least of its leadership. A reasonable level of experience working closely with youth so as to be familiar with your thought and the ways that you handle things. A concern for people without any personal involvement in any person or group. The ability to be disliked without being repressed by it. The person should not be out front with the people nor heavily committed to counseling programs or responsibility. One safeguard in leadership is the development of the administrative head as separate from the popular head. That is, clearly such a person should have a good foundation in Marxist-Leninism. These qualities are not expressed in any particular order of importance. Now we have to come down to the decisions of those who you feel qualified. (Pause) We’re started down the analysts, who you– who do you think is qualified for this job? (Pause) Yeah.

Female: (unintelligible) (tape edit)

Jones: What? Couldn’t get any males in the– in the party, so wh– the white women had to go out and get black men, and fuck ‘em into the party. And that was principle. If you don’t understand that as principle, you don’t know anything about revolution. Sit down. We got some of the best– some of the best black leadership today, the black h– head of the Communist Party was fucked in, he was fucked in by a white woman, who chose to give her body– and that’s what Paul said. You should– you should give your body as what? That was– that was a– that was a socialism remote to some of our present day communists. He said you should present your whole body as a living sacrifice, wholly and acceptable to your God. And what is your God? Communism. Then you should give your vagina, your penis, or your asshole, if it’s called for–

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: And if you can’t, you’re not a dedicated communist.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: You should be willing to fuck anybody, whatever you had to do with, suck ‘em or whatever.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: And I mean, if it would save your people or get a revolutionary achievement, if it’d save someone’s life or build this movement, you should do whatever your ass to do. Is that not right?

Voices in crowd: (Stronger) Right.

Jones: I saw too few amens of that down here in this front section. What the fuck’s the matter down here? I’m not talking about young people. I’m– I’m getting nervous ‘bout some of you older people, you don’t get with this shit. (Pause) Don’t act like– You say, I don’t– I don’t know why they do that. Hell– Hell, you forgot your sex feeling 25 years ago. You ain’t felt nothing. So how would you know whether you’re attracted to anything. Sit down.

Crowd: (Stirs)

Jones: And don’t think these are the only two, male or female. So don’t think the on– the only two, and they were all for a purpose, to bring them to a higher order, because I don’t know how to selfishly use anybody. I wouldn’t know how to do that. I couldn’t do that. I’ve always seen my ro– self in a role of giving. If I receive anything, it won’t be long, because the giving will be outweighing the receiving. ‘Cause that’s me. And you mess with me, that’s the way you’re gonna get. ‘Cause I always gotta give. I take on more worries about you than you’ll ever take on about me or anybody else. I hope that changes. And it can change. But that’s why the– life is hell for me, because you don’t get anything, you have to pay, you have to pay, you have to give, you have to give, if you’re a communist. ‘Cause you never can give enough. He never meets all the needs. All right. (Pause)

Female 2: Uh, I know you don’t like being scheduled, you know (unintelligible word)–

(tape edit)

Jones: Some sensitize in your guilt, talk to someone you like, someone who likes you, whoever that is, uh, Karen, I guess, uh, and you have been talking. Yes. Have you not? Okay. Whatever. You uh– you– You uh– You need to see a film that sensitize you?

Male 3: That’s true.

Jones: You need to– If you need to do something, then you talk to us. But don’t you take it upon yourself to break out of that schedule that all of us are in.

Male 3: Yes, Dad. I realize that–

(tape edit)

Jones: Timed in. Clocked in. Pulled in. You’re vital to the whole program. And uh, what is life, you know? What is life? Let’s not let people down.

Male 3: I won’t.

Jones: It’s a day-by-day occasion. The least we can do is to stand by each other. That’s the most fulfilling thing we can do.

Male 3: I’ll stick by it to the minute.

Jones: I don’t– (tape edit) –willingness to commit themselves with the unknowns of the future. ‘Cause for so many years, I have not known one day to the next, what– what was coming, for me or the people I love. Now the horrible part is that it has grown, not from just a family of an ordinary size of the children I adopted, or the natural born that I have [John Victor Stoen], and I know have– I don’t have one of them, only by the day. You know how it is to feel to have a child by the day, because if the countdown comes, I have not made up my mind what I would do. And Debbie would say I’d put a whole organization at stake. And I have that, not knowing from one day to the next. Now I have a thousand children, a thousand to worry about. (Pause) And uh, I know what I would do if it was your child. But I hope the test doesn’t come over my child. And I’m sure it probably will. Because life has always dealt me the worst possible blows. I’d have no trouble putting this whole organization on a– on the– on a– on the line, for anybody’s else child. But the press has so abused and distorted, and Debbie – the audacity of her – saying that I only threatened to die over my child. She later changed it, but not in the UPI. Then it was later that anyone that attacked us, we would die. But no communism was mentioned in the UPI, no socialism, nothing, it’s gross. She planned it that way, the one that had the biggest coverage – The Press-Democrat – then she talked about my communism, then she mentioned vegetables and other foods, but it was rice. All we eat is rice. Gross kinda shit. Beat old women. Outrageous shit. Bury people alive. (Pause) So now if the– the trial ever came, I don’t know what I can do. I don’t know what I will do. I’m not saying I’ll give up, and I say you better develop some leadership, I’m saying you people better develop some leadership, but for 47 years, I’ve sacrificed sacrificed sacrificed sacrificed. When it comes to my child, I will not make a decision, for you to– if it ever came again. If there’s any question about it ever rises again. Say, well, do you think it will? I don’t know.

(Weary tone) I don’t know anything but the fact that everybody dies. We uh– Used to be, you say, everybody paid taxes, but we don’t have to do that anymore, but everybody has to die. It can be prolonged, and I have, it’s uh, can be resurrected, and I have, but everybody has to go through pain and suffering and death. So why not make it for a revolutionary purpose, a beautiful goal, something that makes us above the animals, ‘cause there’s no way around the suffering. And the only thing that can make your life uh, feel a bit noble is that you found the best idea and stand by it bravely through all the stormy weather. And communism, sharing, if it is unobtainable, is the right– the only right way to live. That no other moral consideration with two babies going to bed hungry tonight while we’re sitting in here. Hungry. They’d be glad to get anything. Rice. They’d be glad to get a double portion of rice. They’d be glad to get a tea– teaspoon full of rice. (More animated) But they’re starving while some of you set out there, not identifying with this doctor while he has to search himself for his elitism, but tomorrow, if you were to go, we’ll have to take you out of your shell and look at you on the searchlight, right up on the stage, we’ll have to put the spotlight on you, because you never can identify with somebody’s else’s problem. You never learn anything indirectly or vicariously, it’s all you gotta drag your ass out and put you here. But you are doubly worse than this doctor tonight. The vast majority of this organization is doubly worse than this doctor.

End of side 1


Side 2

Jones: (Calls out) I want you to know that. Anything I said to him, I could say it doubly to you.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: (Quiet) That doesn’t make him right in any his elitism. But you have sucked and you have drained and you’ve been inconsiderate. Oh, yes, you have.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: So don’t– don’t exclude yourself and try to learn from what he’s going through. You don’t work, you don’t schedule, I went out– I haven’t cried in a long while, I went out and looked in the east field, and I saw a group of workers out there, and I wept. I watched them for 15 minutes, and I wept. I said, they don’t give a fuck. Just kickin’ dirt, throwing things, they didn’t give a fuck. And I wept. If I ever understood anything about anxiety and hurt, I wept. A proverb come to me, Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how oft I’da gathered you under my wings like a hen doth her brood, and you would not. How much I try to protect you, how much I try to build, but if you don’t help yourself, there’s nothing I can do. To think that I’d given, all the years and the sweat, and all the painful sacrifice facing, maybe having to give up my child or committing suicide with my child, because I’ll never have you commit suicide over my child. But I’m not going to promise you that I’ll send him back. I will not do that.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: I’ve– I’ve gone a long way, and I’m entitled to some peace.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: I’m entitled to some peace, and I will not give– I will not commit murder. I don’t have the right to commit anybody else, but I do have the right to see that my child is not murdered.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: You say, do you expect that to happen? I don’t know what to expect. The great big Yankee giant, nuclear war comes first, I think, there’re no problems. The economy begins to teeter and totter, there’s no problem. But I know this is a small nation, and Yankee imperialism has a great weight. And I know the court case has not been resolved, and it’s been six months, and I’m still sitting here with it not resolved. And there may be all sorts of diplomatic reasons for them not doing it, but if they’re forced to have to do diplomatic things by putting it off and putting it off and putting it off, I say what– in the back of my mind, what kind of option are they really weighing? Sometime they may have to do something, so they don’t want to make a final decision. But I can warn them this– and I think you should raise a lot of hell, because if it happens, if this court system does not respond to its government, or doesn’t behave somewhat independently as it should (unintelligible word, either “not” or “now”) in this socialist setting, uh, you gonna have to make a lot of hell. If anybody ever come to get me, you’re gonna have to raise a lotta hell, you’re gonna have to raise a lotta hell.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: If anybody comes to get one of ‘em– I’ll tell you why. I’ll tell you why. Because your life, I’m afraid at this stage, would be finished.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: So if they come for John, you better raise a lotta hell.

Voices in crowd: (More forceful) Right. (Applause, some ululation)

Jones: Peace. Peace. Peace. Peace. Peace. If there anybody else they come for– don’t forget, don’t forget, anybody else they come for– you may be seated. The last three people or four people who were arrested, they were none of them– one of them– not one of them a relative of mine. Other than (word garbled with mangled tape, FBI summary says “[my] adopted”)

End of tape

Tape originally posted June 2012