Q380 Transcript

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(Note: This tape was transcribed by Vicki Perry. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)

Jones: What’s going on in here?

Crowd: (murmurs)

Jones: Uh– the uh– you haven’t uh– you haven’t changed your practice. I don’t understand it. I don’t understand how anybody in this damned community could do that. I’m– I hold my (unintelligible word) I can hardly my head up, for my hands are swollen up with rheumatism till they look like a rubber glove inflated with water. I manage to speak to anybody. I never once failed to speak if someone speaks to me. And I– if it is, I have not heard it, because I am certainly always say hi or (stumbles over words) on the second reflex, haven’t had much sleep, little dull, I’ll say hi as you’re going by, I’ll call to the person. I don’t understand this, I don’t relate to this shit, and there ain’t nobody going to go over there that’s got a chip on their shoulder and can’t take– can’t take a criticism and can’t be civil with their fellow man and their fellow sister. I’m not going to even relate to you people, you’re not going to bu– you’re not going to ruin a whole opportunity for a thousand people.

Crowd: (Applause)

(tape edit)

Jones: (Agitated) (unintelligible word) have to be the best. And whether you can get yourself into the shape to be the best, it remains to be seen. I’m not– I’m not prejudicial. I’m open and objective on the score. But you have to show me more. (unintelligible name), did you wish to say something?

Voice in Crowd: (unintelligible)

(tape edit)

Jones: I don’t care what the shit flinger’s doing. I’m concerned about what you people doing. The shit slinger’s not on the floor. You want to say– you want to say something about the shit slinger, that’s all right, but the mai– main issue is how you handle the shit. And that is, turn the other cheek.

Woman in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: I mean, you’ve got to do that, or we can’t stake any kind of reaction. No kind of reaction but calm and cool.

Male: That’s right, uh– I’m not–

(tape edit)

Jones: –all of you.

Woman in crowd: That’s right!

Jones: I don’t hear– want no damned excuse, I don’t give it that they call you a son of a bitch eighteen times a day. I want to hear no retaliation from you. That’s what I’m demanding. I mean from now on till the– that jet carts off for that round up. I want to hear no shit coming back from you people. No bullshit music. I don’t want you to be caught up in no goddamned games, sex games or foolishness. I want to keep your head on straight. You can be in a relationship, but I don’t want no goddamned mess like we’ve seen here in the last few hours of people trying to kill themselves or go running off because some– somebody’s with somebody else. You know you’ll have– you’ll have to produce the best of what Jonestown is. Communism. ‘Cause it’s not just Jim Jones, you see. It’s Marxist-Leninism. This man said that it’s the only true American communist– North American communist colony– or com– community rather, alive. The only communist– US communist society alive, is what he said to us. Now we sure as hell won’t let that down.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Two hundred and eighty million people looking at us. Any of your crud comes out there, damn it, you’d ruin it for every child that’s in this place. (Pause) So anybody want to probe in? What– uh, what– what about it–

Woman in crowd: It– it just not– it’s not (unintelligible)– uh, Dad, it– it’s uh–

(tape edit)

Jones: –who we are as a people. What the hell do we– you– you reveal your own belief uh, that the Ku Klux Klan’s propagated. Are you Ku Klux Klan or are you black? You’re propagating top nigger, you’re propagating Ku Klux Klan doctrine, and you say back, well, it takes a nigger to know a nigger. This is all Ku Klux Klan talk.

Male: It is.

Male 2: Is it?

Woman: He was wrong to–

Male 3: The thing– the thing is–

Jones: It’s idiotic and it’s painful.

Male 3: It’s– it’s idiotic ‘cause it says that you’ve been thwarted by American societ– society that separates color, when the whole thing is that we’ve been all oppressed as workers. That’s the whole thing. And we’re–

(tape edit)

Jones: Have all of you in this group seen Harlan County? You see a black man with a white man– white man, all lay on the same line, and it was a white man that got shot down. Left his wo– young wife with a baby. Shot down by the goon squads of the capitalist owners of the mine. Isn’t no difference what color it was. They were working class people.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: That’s the issue. And you bring this color shit into this– I’m tired of it. I said I’m tired of it.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Yes, that’s what I wonder. Well, you ask them that, they can ask that. Communism to be.

Male 4: I believe communism is a– is a– a right, and everyone should have to work together to be able to come to one– to one ultimate conclusion, and it is communalism. Living, working, eating together, sharing what you have with the next person, and the next person sharing it with you.

Male 5: (in background) (unintelligible) you say sharing. Now you got to tell them you and the attitude you– (unintelligible) won’t be sharing.

(tape edit)

Jones: Well, first and foremost, which I’ve not seen from you nor anyone talking tonight. Communism is the end of ego.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: (speaks rapidly, agitated) Replace socialist-centric behavior for ego-centric behavior. You people been worrying about covering your ass all night long here. Every time I throw a ball, cover the ass. Diane? She covered her ass. She– she had fun with everybody. Had the eighteen people said she don’t speak to her before she might just slightly acknowledge that she’s covering her ass. All night long I’ve heard people covering their ass. You’re not communist!

Voices in crowd: That’s right!

Jones: That’s first and foremost. Because if you did, you wouldn’t give a shit what somebody’s saying about you. You’d listen to it, think about it and you would react honestly and objectively. You’d then would be on the communist path, but you haven’t even shown me on the communist path today. Moment some of this hits you, you– I saw it in Diane’s face, stiffen up, everybody hits somebody with something, you just stiffen up against it, you won’t listen to a word to it. You’re not– not only not a communist, you’re not on a communist course.

Women in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: You have behaved like juveniles.

Women in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: (Cries out) Every person confronted here tonight for the most part except Loretta Wilkerson who said I shouldn’t go. It’s been nothing but juvenile behavior, not communism! Communism means the end of egocentric behavior and the beginning of socialist-centric behavior. And you have no socialist-centric behavior, or you’d quit worrying about covering your ass!

Crowd: (Applause)

(tape edit)

Jones: Makes me sorry I ever left the streets of San Francisco and didn’t die there. I mean this shit makes me sick. We’ve come so far, to carry so much capitalist bullshit.

Voices in crowd: Yeah!

Jones: Anybody ought to have no nerve to stand up and tell me you’ve done the best you can. Now nobody can stand in my face and tell such a lie like that. You’d have to tell a lie back there doing something else. You couldn’t look at my face and tell me you’re doing the best you can. That’d be a dirty damned liar. (Voice calms slightly) Now, folk, when are we going to grow up? Are we going to lose this revolution?

Voices in crowd: No!

Jones: Hell of a lot of work went in to lose it. Got the eyes of the world upon us. Poland writing about us, Yugoslavia writing about us, Democratic Peoples Republic re– writing about us, even China didn’t write bad– badly about us. Soviet Union writing about us. What the hell are they going to show them? What they hell are they going to find when they break through the shell?

Woman in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: (voice calms) I’m fearful if they met uh, confrontation tomorrow. Now would you like to go over what is your faults? And what in the hell was wrong about your behavior that’s been brought up tonight? Then by that I’ll understand whether you’ve grown or not. Okay. I don’t want to hear nothing about Michael Simon, his course, a socialist course. (Pause) Specifically, what did you do wrong? I heard two or three (tape edit) –four. A whole lot of brown, a whole of black, a whole of yellow skins, a whole lot of white skins are in that low class, called the working class. They should be the upper class. All the wealth belongs to the working class, the ones that produce the wealth. But all the ones that hold it, are the elite. They happen to be mostly white. They have some Uncle Tom lackeys, though, that do their dirty work. You used some other color references, didn’t you?

Male: (in background, unintelligible)

Jones: To Marxist-Leninist principle and practicing. (Resigned tone) It stabs me deeply anybody says I’m– I’m doing that to him because he’s doing that to me. That’s so sick.

Woman: I– I apologize for that, Dad.

(tape edit)

Jones: –blow to Timothy Stoen, until it was evident that he is not going to stop. I don’t retaliate out of vindictiveness. I don’t seek to avenge my enemies. I seek to find the class enemy and destroy the class enemy. If that didn’t happen to be Timothy Stoen– and it had not been up till a certain date, which a conspirator [Joe Mazor] next to him, higher than him stepped forward and told how deeply enmeshed he was in the entire conspiracy, so then we learn at that point that Timothy Stoen was and always had been a fascist and a provocateur. So then we take action against him, but no person saw me take any action against him based on a personal vendetta.

Male: That’s exactly why–

Jones: No matter how much he hurt me, I did not retaliate it. No matter how much goodness he’d stomped on, I did not retaliate. It was only when it became clear to me that he represented the class enemy, then we took him on. And don’t– I don’t apologize for that. And if it hadna been– uh, whoever it hada been, it wouldn’t have made a difference to me if it would have been Timothy Stoen or Jim Cobb who I would not find as much uh, anger towards as I do with Timothy Stoen, but it woulda been Jim Cobb, I would’ve reacted to him if he was the one giving the orders. The class enemy. The person that trying to do all this shit to destroy black people, so we had to sneak black people out of– one of them right here in our organization tonight, had to sl– slip him out in the middle of the night to be safe in entire Mendocino and Sonoma county. With the goddamned lies they spew out of their mouths. They’re class enemies. You got to learn the difference. Somebody goes by me and doesn’t speak to me, I’m not going to get mad at that person. I’m not going to retaliate by saying you horse’s ass. I– I– oh, there’s many a day, many a day people don’t speak to me, I know. They try to avoid me. Particularly when they’re plotting some shit, and I uh– I– I don’t let that get me– to affect me and it shouldn’t affect you. I get just as tired as you do, and just as need as rest– of rest as you do, and then more.

Male: Right.

Jones: Okay, now, you’ll do more than your part. Your conditioning– that has nothing to do with him. If he wants to be a class asshole, he wants to be a class egocentric, you– you have to– you have to move forward. You can’t– and they say I’ll do my part if he does his part. That’s not co– that’s not socialism. Socialism is you– you sacrifice yourself and to hell with what the rest of people do. See, I sit here and I look at this thing and I don’t know what the hell’s going to happen to my future. I don’t know what the hell will happen to me in Russia– (stumbles over words) I wouldn’t even– don’t even give a goddamn. I don’t even think about it. Don’t make any difference to me. Uh, as long as I get people to safety. Back at– uh– set back as a millionaire and had anything America had to offer, but I didn’t want it. I gave it up. I sacrificed. I put me out of the way. And looks to me by this time of day, uh, this long epic that we’ve been here a year, and some of us longer together, that by now that some of you people would learn it’s not based on what he does as to what you do. If I had reacted to this group as they’ve reacted to me, I would have walked off and left this group nine hundred days ago.

Crowd: (applause)

(tape edit)

Jones: (calmer) Uh, for instance you don’t rise to any rank in the political– political rank in terms of very important positions if you uh, have any affairs. They don’t understand it. They understand Lenin, what he did to build a revolution. But after the revolution’s won, they have pretty strict morality. Very strict morality. They don’t– they don’t– they don’t uh– they feel people got their mind on sex, and they don’t get their mind at ease and settle down with one person that they are not due to rise in the party. And uh, you can argue that as you feel. I would tend to agree with it.

Voices in crowd: (Murmurs agreement)

Jones: I would tend to agree with it. As he said about my situation, he fully understood about Johnny [Moss Brown], he understood about all these cases. He fully understood. He said you are trying to build a revolution. But when a revolution is won, then, we have lost (unintelligible) and I wholeheartedly agree. That’s what we’ve been trying to do here, but everyone trying to break these goddamned rules all the time.

Voices in crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: And we have one run off three times the other night over this sister over here and another one [Ricky Johnson] tried to commit suicide last night, so I have no peace two nights in a row. I don’t know what we’re going to do about this kind of a mess. (Pause) I have a strong feeling just to– that people act like this should never even get out. I think that we want to change the– the hospital unit and put it down here and give them one whole capacity, and we’ll treat you just like they do in mental patients.

Voices in crowd: (Murmurs agreement)

Jones: They have mental wards in any sane society, and it’s insane to run away three times in a jungle, filled with snakes and perhaps mercenaries and perhaps Venezuelan scouts, bounty hunters, trying to get people from– to raise money. It’s insane to run off three times. That’s what I would call it, it would be insane. Any panel of psychiatrists would lock you up and say you’re crazier than a fool to be running around in a– in a– in a jungle when you’ve got (unintelligible word) sidewalks and all the provisions you have offered here for you, entertainment and so forth and so on.

Male: Has– Has anyone else any oth– any– any other sugge–

(tape edit)

Jones: Here. (Pause) You. You. The only one, Richard [Ricky Johnson]. There’s only one of you. (Pause)  Or running off, this kind of bullshit. (Pause) (tape edit) You want a zoo? Then we will have– we– we will– we will– we’ll create a zoo.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

(long pause, laughter, talking)

Jones: So, tell me about this feeling of run– running away or dying.

Richard: Uh, there– (unintelligible word) it’s kind of a funny answer, I couldn’t really– really say how it (unintelligible). It– it– it started when I was small, uh, trying to find out in my own way, but– Well, I had uh, funny dreams, and– but I don’t know how to actually put it all together but I try to understand and th– uh– oh, Christ. (Pause) All right, I told my mother one– once when uh, when– when leaving and she said no, you’re crazy, and the next day, she told me to run away. And I kept on telling her that for a while I did– I never really understood–

Male: Richard– excuse me a second. Uh, I know I talked to you for a little bit last Sunday morning when–

(tape edit)

Jones: That’s how much (unintelligible) nothing.

Crowd: (clapping)

Richard: Uh, thank you very much. I appreciate it– appreciate it.

Jones: Well, what about this thing you feeling you’re threatening me in a dream?

Richard: Oh. It was– it was uh, actually I can’t really– well, the dream– the dream I– the dream I had, it– it well, I was–

(tape edit)

Jones: Am I sending up some shit tonight that says it voodoo? Shit, there ain’t saying– I put the voodoo, the voodoo’s done.

Richard: Oh.

Crowd: (Applause)

Jones: Why in the hell don’t you get your mind off that bullshit? (Pause) (tape edit) Dreams or s– astrological charts. Who’ll know that shit here? (Pause) Bad enough that they had to take one miracle wark– uh, worker– one healer. Bad enough it require one to make some people communist around here. That’s shame enough. So let’s don’t make two shames. You don’t need to worry about it, son, you’re not a prophet, you’re not– your dreams don’t mean a damned thing. So you can quit worrying about your dreams. Maybe then you’ll dream about what you’re really thinking about, ‘cause you’re dressing your dreams up, ‘cause you’re hostile.

Male in crowd: Right.

Jones: You’re upset, you’re disturbed. And I understand that. You’re disturbed as a whole because you’re not getting enough sex and you turn that disturbance towards me so that’s why you see yourself threatening me. Hell no, that’s as normal as rising of the sun. But you got to get yourself together, and right now you’re not together.

Richard: I guess I’m not. I know I’m not. Uh, (Pause) I– (Pause) I try for once– I’ve tried to get– pull myself together and get this hostile out of myself and– (Pause) and through– (Pause) through–

Jones: (voice fades in) –in the meantime that you could uh, till we determine your status– you have had emotional treatment in a mental institution in the past, haven’t you?

Richard: I have.

Jones: All right. There nothing to be more– men– nothing to worry about that anymore than being treated for uh, tonsillectomy or appendix or liver. But it would– does require certain evaluations. And uh, in the meantime, I’m wondering, uh– what is the uh, scene in the hospital. Uh, uh, is it crowded to the capacity and on the floors?

Woman: (unintelligible)

Jones: Well, when are you gonna make this switch? How many uh– where Pat– how many lives with Pat’s uh– how many people are in where’s Pat’s uh– maybe they could switch– they could use that house. It’d be crowded, but they could perhaps use that house.

Woman: Possibly, (unintelligible)

Woman 2: In that one wing of the apartment when we have uh, fifteen children and one adult.

Jones: Uh-huh.

Woman: (unintelligible)

Jones: One half of (unintelligible)

Woman: And the only thing that we could– (unintelligible)

Jones: She talking about (unintelligible)

(tape edit)

Male: (unintelligible word) and go and take care of her. She was in complete coma where she was, she shouldn’t have been able to come out of it at the time that she did. Only because of Dad’s power that he brought her out of it, and as soon as he went in and started talking to her, she re– she responded immediately. And she was not responding to none of the medical attention that our staff was giving her at all, and it is only because of Dad that she came out of it, and I’d like to thank Dad. ‘Cause all the day he’s been– he’s been– he was saying Ricky and everyone else who’s, you know– all these problems we’ve had and yet Dad’s still taking care of all these other problems.

Crowd: (Applause)

(tape edit)

Jones: If I’da failed, there’d been guilt because I failed. I didn’t cause a coma. There’s a young girl, just between life and death, hanging by a string. Kay Nelson’s granddaughter [Teri Smart]. They couldn’t do anything for her. Only me. Only me. But if I’da failed, I’d had to assume the guilt. And I felt the guilt all– all the way there and I felt the guilt wherever– failure that people have created for themselves. As you take guilt and appropriate it in work and appreciation, it becomes the biggest determiner for communism. If you take guilt and resent it and don’t appropriate it properly, it can do nothing for you or anyone else. How many pe– people here have not killed– killed somebody someplace along the line, emotionally? And maybe even physically? How many anybody the wrong– uh, they don’t know– they don’t know– you don’t know. Some people are raising their hands but uh, (Pause) lots of guilt under the– under the belts of people there. And the only possible way you can endure, is– is by facing your guilt every day. And that’s what trouble is with a lot of folk, they’re not facing that guilt. They resent facing guilt. That’s the only thing that can keep an organization moving to the pure goal of– of socialism. Only guilt, for all the mistakes we’ve made, for all the capitalism we’ve helped create, even when we have bought an ice cream cone, or drank a Coca-Cola. I just talk to a lot of people out here, they never assume this guilt. Say you’re healthy, you– you assume guilt. You’ve made a tragic blunder this week. You know what I mean, too, and they–

But these two people both also are responsible for their lives. If they– This man [Ricky Johnson] is a grown, supposedly mature adult. He drinks gasoline. The other one is a mature fifteen, for his age, and he runs away three times in one night. They both need keepers.

No matter what you’ve done in the picture, you can’t be responsible for the whole thing. Women should be more responsible, ‘cause I’ve taught you so much, but it still– you girls have to learn everything the hard way. The fellas do too. So if you learn from this thing, you will see, you’ve got two– you have right now two basket cases. Which basket do you want? Or none? You got two basket cases, ain’t no other way to lay it out to ya. You got two basket cases. I can sit here and lie to you and play games and fool and say you got strength down there, but you haven’t got strength down there. You’ve got basket cases. I know the mother doesn’t like hear this, I know the relatives don’t like to hear this, but I can’t help it. I just have to tell the truth. The truth is the truth. Maybe a basket case in sixteen months can be stability which goes to show it’s gone take a hell of a lot of input. A hell of a lot of input. The one kid’s making it without you. You should have stayed with the one you had. That’s what you really ought to have done is stayed one with– rather get into two sick cases. You seem to find sickness. The one can’t live without you apparently. We’re going to have to watch him night and day, he can’t live without you. The other one could, the last one, who’s more meaningful to you. He could live without you. Very easily. (tape edit) –from day to day. (Pause) Gratitude, that y– one young girl tonight is– isn’t a vegetable for life, which she looked like she was going to be. They’d done everything medically possible. It was a nightmare when they came up here and told me. Somehow, I did it. I don’t know how. Somehow I said I’d do it, I would do it, I did it down there and did it and I still don’t know how I did it. But I did it. And that kind of gratitude, guilt mixture’s the only thing that keeps me going. It’d be a terrible thing to be in a vegetable state like that, all the rest of your life. (sigh) I’ve got twelve hundred people to feel guilty for. You only got two. (Pause) I’m trying to make the best of the picture. My advice is that uh– they’re both too dependent, they’re both immature, but the one has had far more rejection than the other, the older of them. Total uh– the other one too has been rejected though, you got into a– you got into a bag. You’re into a bag. Not a very uh, very comfortable bag to be in, I’m sure. You have to observe these chaps. They just– one of them wants to commit suicide by running off and doesn’t know how to do it. The other one tries to commit suicide very directly, there ain’t no playing with him. When you drink gasoline, you mean business. The only thing is that everybody here better learn, you better remind every child., you better wake them up right now and tell them that it isn’t so easy to commit suicide in this place. You better tell them, better tell them, whisper it to them. It isn’t so easy. You’re liable to end up something different than what you thought. (Pause) And I’m not trying to play any fun and games, I’m telling you, it’s not so easy. You better wake every soul up. And then if they made it, (clicks tongue), I’m as confident as hell the mind lives on. I am confident of it.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Don’t make me love any deity, doesn’t make me feel any order up there, but I am confident the mind lives on. I know how it happened when I died. It does go on its way, and you’re very much cognizant of all the people still there. Some people say it’s restful. Those are the people don’t have much conscience. To me it was agony because I saw my child crying for me, and I’m way up above the child. And I was laying on the kitchen floor, but I’m way up above Lew [Jones] and he’s crowded up against the bedroom– bedroom door and I’m way up there looking at him, fighting to get back in that body, and I hear Marceline [Jones] down there saying, “you got to– you got to live, J– Jim, you got to live, Jim, you got to”– and she was screaming out all– I don’t know what all she said. But I– I– they give me a– they gave me uh– what is it? Penicillin, and I had absolute immediate reaction. Everything stopped. Everything stopped. By the way, if you don’t think gasoline too– who was it?– some sister sent a note up here and I didn’t– I don’t read one-tenth of the miracles or healing, but she said something about, she had a sister– who was it that had a uh, sister-in-law or a sister that– son or son-in-law or something that took gasoline. Eyes rolled back, turned white and died instantly. Just a little gasoline. Who was it, somebody here tonight. Yeah, there, Aurora. Sister Rodriguez. (Pause) But you see, he took a lot of gasoline and he didn’t die. And I want to tell you, he went through hours of hell. He shit fire and he vomited fire. That’s exactly what he went through, hours. Vomiting fire and shitting fire and burning like hell and screaming like something, nobody would want to be in that state. It isn’t worth it. Then if you don’t get out of the goddamned mess– it’s too obvious. I’m telling you, I don’t believe in anything loving in the universe, but I do believe the mind supersedes the body. I mean it– it goes out of body, it lives on. I said well, I don’t tell you ghost stories– I’d like to tell you there’s nothing but just what we see here in this human plane. It’d make the teaching of Marxism easier for me, but I cannot tell you that, because I sit in the uh, nursing home and talked a woman into dying, who was fighting death and had been laying in a vegetable state for weeks. Breast all open with cancer and her chest cavities laid open, and she was holding on (panting sound). Eyes set. Have you ever seen anybody in a coma? You know what it is. Don’t ever talk around a person in a coma like they don’t know. You just don’t know about the mind. From all appearances, she should have been completely gone, the mind should have been severed. So much had been eaten away by cancer, so much atrophy, so much dehydration. I said, “You’re afraid of death, aren’t you?” It was Louise, wasn’t it? “You’re afraid of death.” I said, “You shouldn’t be afraid of death. You’ve done no wrong.” She felt like she needed a priest. Some sensation I had. I said, “You don’t need that, either. Everything’s all right. And I want you to agree with me, and in five minutes you are going to leave this body.” And we were getting, I guess, a hundred dollars a week to take care of her. But I don’t like to see human beings live like that. Half eaten, half s– dead, the doctor trying to keep her– keep her alive. He give her more support mechanisms. Had intravenous feedings in her body, trying to keep her alive, ‘cause he’s making money. But Jim Jones don’t like to make money off of suffering. So I stood by her bedside and said, “Five minutes, Louise. Five minutes.” And I want to say may every child die here, the nurses can witness that were there. A vapor lifted from her body and she ceased breathing. And I can tell you cases after cases like that. A man one time wanted to get his idiotic thing– in Indianap– Indianapolis. Edith [Cordell] will remember it– you will remember it– he wanted his uh, pipe. Who was that man? Do you remember, Edith? Old (unintelligible). Over there that– The man died and I had his funeral. Do you remember that man? (Pause) Well, I can’t remember where he lived. Lived out there in the east part of uh, Indianapolis. He and his wife and I think a daughter, they were all around without a (unintelligible). He died. And he told me where his– he wanted his– he wanted his– you remember the thing you– I’m talking about? The pipe– he wanted his pipe. You remember, Eva [Pugh]?

Eva: I remember that, I don’t remember his name.

Jones: Yeah. Uh-hmm. Boy, it was something else. So I get him his pipe. He’s in a coma. He gets his pipe in his hands, and he dies. He wants his pipe. I said I’d bury the pipe with him. I didn’t know what to do, ‘cause the woman– she didn’t believe in smoking– he believe– he– he– he quit smoking the pipe even. And it was against Pentecostal teaching to smoke. He wanted his pipe so I give him his pipe, and they buried the pipe with him. So don’t play with– fun and games with trying to commit suicide. Because I– c– I did something tonight that was beyond the body’s range. Doctors had tried everything. Medical science had gone to its nth degree. Coma. (Emphatic) Total, complete coma. No response. Vegetable for here, now and forever more. I said no, I won’t accept that. Because I said this is a (unintelligible word), I said if she stays in a coma, I cannot stand this. That’s what I’m saying to myself as I walked down there. I will die. I cannot see a child stay in a coma like this. That’s why I walked away patiently, but inside, it isn’t that easy. I’m a skeptic and a cynic, and no matter how many victories I win, I’m still a skeptic and a cynic. But there’s one thing I’m not cynical about. As perverse as this universe is, you know one thing it would do, it will cause you to live long. Everything else wicked happens in this universe, so you can be damned sure your mind won’t just die, this time around. You forget too– too easily. The– the– the times you took a walk and thought you’d been there before. I set up and suddenly– I’ve– I’ve seen this (unintelligible) before. It happens less as you get older. But in the early parts of life, how many times do you s– I know what’s around the corner– you have a feeling. Deja vu. I’m just saying, don’t fuck with suicide. ‘Cause you don’t get out, you get back in. I’ve said this thing about Pearson, I thought that’s the weirdest thing I ever–ever said in my life. I said the– that Mrs. Pearson, you’re going to bring back Jim Randolph’s girlfriend who was so inconsiderate that she killed herself, hung herself so that the children would find her. And did a hell of a job doing it. There a lot of folk back there remember it. And Jim– Jim had not been– certainly he hadn’t been doing it. There, raise your hands, how many know about this case? And I said, “You’re going to have the baby.” Doctor says she can’t have a baby. I said, “You’re going to have the baby, and when it comes, it’ll be a boy, and it’ll be deserted by his mother.” And then the wife and husband were together and they were in the church. I didn’t say it to her. I didn’t say it there. I didn’t say it to her. I made it very clear to a whole host of people when she wasn’t present. Exactly what she did. She abandoned him. He paid a price. The same woman that hung herself, I don’t doubt one minute– I don’t doubt one minute– the same person that hung themselves with that little boy that walked in our church, those few years, before his mother took him out, and the father went his way. He ended up abandoned. (Pause) That’s a hell of a price to pay. But on the other hand, you look at the hell of a price that several of her children paid when they walked through that garage door and saw her hanging by the neck with a rope. She never– she never followed me. She followed Jim Randolph. That’s always a danger of some people, they follow love and they follow the smell of vagina or penis. But they won’t follow communism embodied in me or embodied in others that are trying to bring it out to its clearest manifestation. They’re always following something else. And so she ended up in a bad way. She hun– she– I don’t know what– how she’ll go this time. The woman with the little boy. I guess by– by now maybe he’d be what? Ten years old. Something like that. Don’t mess with suicide.

I don’t tell you fun and games. I tell you what I believe. I don’t believe in ordered universe. I don’t believe any love’s up there that I’ve been able to perceive ‘cause it is absolutely unloving, that two out of three babies in the world that are going to bed hungry. But I do believe that the mind for some diabolical reason will survive the body, and you will accomplish nothing by trying to kill yourself. I’ve lived through it many times. But sometime you ought to listen to me. Hush, people behind me, hush. Sometime you people ought to start listening to me. I could save you a hell of a lot of pain. I coulda told you that was a bad trip you were taking. If you hada even consulted me, I could have told you how serious a trip this was. I coulda lifted that guilt from you. Now we not only have a– have guilt, we’ve got to have absolute observation of those two. Absolute and complete and total observation. Those two don’t understand. I don’t know why Johnson wouldn’t. He took wood alcohol and they found him several hours. And I drug his ass up and walked him through, after taking wood alcohol. Nobody should have lived through that mess.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: You’d think by now – lie – yes. You’d think by now, he’d have gotten the picture. But he hasn’t. And you’re intricately tied up in his life, and whether you can handle that or not, will depend on how much a socialist you are. What I’d do right now is stay away from both of them, for the time being, until we can make a more objective evaluation of them, ‘cause you’ve got sick– two sick people. Very sick people. And tomorrow I’m going to let you off. (tape edit) (unintelligible word) by how the media play to their mind, how pop destroys our– our thinking ability. You know– you know you– what you saw tonight? Hmm?

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Remember the news you saw tonight?

Voices in crowd: Yes, Dad.

Jones: News what you get tomorrow. Very likely Monday will be the day, but if there’s no interest shown in anything creative tomorrow – and I mean creative, you can be out putting some food, growing some food in your yard – but there’s a lot of indifference, and foolishness and running around and carelessness. We’ll call a test tomorrow evening. You hear what I’m saying?

Woman: Yes, Dad.

Voices in crowd: Yes, Dad.

Jones: Yes, what is it?

Crowd: (Scattered voices)

End of tape

Tape originally posted April 2008

Originally posted on June 16th, 2013.

Last modified on February 13th, 2019.
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